I had two dreams about antisemitism last night. I wish I could figure them out.
They haven't upset me today, but I've thought about them.
The first one was in a southern setting, a picnic area in the woods, with huge cedars or cypresses in low marshy land. A ton of people had gathered there. They seemed like nice people. They had a book out they were all reading from. Then suddenly they all began chanting a Hitler chant.
I was looking at the book, too. I found it highly disconcerting, but I didn't run away, I even talked to people there about it. Somehow it wasn't threatening.
An old Jewish friend of mine who hates my ideas on Jewish identity and Israel was in that dream. He stood on the side of a huge cypress with a rope to measure its girth. He wrapped it twice around the tree and half hung from the side of it, naked. But uninjured. Sort of like performance art. Very vulnerable, he was.
The second dream was connected. I was in New York and interviewing a board member of some New York institution. The guy was talking to me about when the antisemites ran the place. He said there was a guy named Burliner or Berlingame who was very antisemitic who was on the board. I asked if he’s still alive, the guy said yes, and you can talk to him. I wasn't to quote him on that part.
I wrote it all down, but the ink in my pen didn’t flow well, I had to scratch it into the page, like incising it.
My sense is the dreams are about my anguish over stuff I say here. I try and be hardboiled, but I know I've alienated some friends and family over this, and the ideas make me uncomfortable. Still I believe what I say. These dreams are the teachings I grew up with: Nazi rallies in rural settings, and urban institutions dominated by anti-semites-- that's how the world works.
The good thing about the dreams was that I didn't feel at all threatened. They weren't nightmares. In a sense they gave me a kind of power, and permission. Don't worry about the antisemites. Just try and figure out what you think, and write it down.
As for the friend with the rope, he and I witnessed a lot sociologically. We traveled together, were in different parts of the country together. We saw the Jewish transformation of the last 30 years together, enjoyed it. Now we don't talk about this, don't talk at all actually. The last time we talked about it, he said my comments, about intermarriage, had a "haze of hurt." A great phrase. Ifelt he was talking about childhood stuff, my parents. I sure don't hope that's true. But at some point in life what does the psychology matter? If you're a writer, you just got to write it down.
(Phil Weiss)
Phil,
I'm sorry for your haze of hurt.
Marcus
Phil.
If anything, you are smashing the concept integral to anti-semitism of 'Jewish Group-think.'
With the advent of the internet, the old concepts and models are not very applicable. Here, a throng of people are reaching out to multiple sources and interacting with them. Theyre finding out that the narrative of "Israeli response" to Israeli actions, is a weak narrative. I've also seen the "response to" narrative used in relation to wealth or media control.
Unfortunately, if the narrative is challenged with information, the response is often to assume they represent hate, or a simplistic "enemy side."
Unfortunately, it is the synchronization of (often hostile and ascerbic) rhetoric from pro-israeli types on the media (ranging from journalists to forum posters) that serve to interject a concept of a propagandistic and collectivistic minority dominated viewpoint that constitutes the heart of anti-semitic canards. In other words, when a regular person finds the "Israeli response" narrative to be less than truthful, and they encounter vicious attacks from mainly Jewish posters espousing a seemingly synchronized set of talking points, find out the Israeli government is sponsoring bloggers to flood sites with "pro-Israeli" talking points, read the Hasbara handbook, Giyus, thejdif.org, etc. – and theres a vicious effort to generalize this regular Americans point of view as anti-semitic or "pro-Hamas," they can come away with the impression that there is a 'Jewish Conspiracy.'
Polls like
Don't help, either.
Your work, on the other hand, helps smash those stereotypes. What these 'activists' forget, is that the way people interact with information and other people today is unlike any other time period. The internet has changed the game. A lack of openness to other points of view is more easily identified as propaganda, and withdrawing into a defensive stance when this tactic doesnt work only solidifies conceptions of group-think and propaganda. Your work is a clear and happy break from this trend. It is my opinion that your work does much to dispel these unfortunate notions.
the instinct behind the naked on a tree analogy is valid, though of course your critics will say this is about 'ceasing to be a jew' and 'becoming a christian', at least in temperamental terms if not doctrinally. It isn't, though: it is about having the courage to be honest, without knowing what will eventuate, but trusting in your own good faith and good heart to avert the most terrifying accusations. This is in fact the most anyone can do, and the best too.
Interesting introspection, Phil. Both sides try to point to the most fanatic examples of the other side and claim that is representative of the type of people that hold that particular position.
I remember all the newspaper pieces I read about the W&M Israel Lobby book had in its first paragraph that David Duke agreed with them.
The strength of their work has nothing to do with whether or not David Duke agrees with it. The same for any position on this most divisive subject. I'm glad your voice is out there. I'm glad you ask many questions including those you are not sure of the answer.
If I can generalize, the other side…the hardcore Zionist side, seems to want to shut down discussion if they are not able to control it entirely.
This leads me to believe that they cannot make their case on a level playing field and must use lies and intimidation to maintain the "official narrative." I have seen firsthand, instances of Zionists acting like brownshirts. I say let Zionists make their case without the thuggery. If it is defensable, then the strong arm tactics should not be needed.
Joesph Heller once said, "Catch-22 means people have the right to do to you anything that you cannot prevent them from doing to you."
That's some catch.
"…haze of hurt." I find it tragic that debates about antisemitism–what is and what isn't–divides the Jewish community, breaks up friendships. Loud debate and lots of drama has always characterized Jewish life, but this is different.
The dream is about Phil as eavesdropper on antisemitism–at some distance from it, observing it, not feeling it. The second dream is similar: Phil as "objective" journalist/listener to the stories of antisemitism. His pen running out of ink says something about self-censorship, and his struggle to get the pen to write anyway says something about his struggle not to censor himself.
For Phil, being "hardboiled" is taking some distance, being objective. But I don't find his writing all that hardboiled–quite the opposite, in fact. He wears his heart on his blogsleeve.
the real catch 22 was the catch on the medical discharge from military service by reason of insanity: if you asked for it, that proved that you were still motivated by the instinct for self-preservation, and hence sane, and so you did not qualify for it.
or: you can only see major major when he's out.
PHIL, FROM ABOVE: "The first one was in a southern setting, a picnic area in the woods, with huge cedars or cypresses in low marshy land. A ton of people had gathered there. They seemed like nice people. They had a book out they were all reading from. Then suddenly they all began chanting a Hitler chant."
ME: I think I saw that film. Kind of a "Rosemary's Baby" set in Louisiana bayou country.
Pardon Roman Polanski!
PHIL: Are you "going all Woody Allen" on us?
"But at some point in life what does the psychology matter?"
I wonder what Woody would have to say about such a notion!
Phil,
Consider whether the reason that you do not feel fear in the dreams is whether you are not the "victim" in them, but the perpetrator?
Perhaps, you are attempting to rationalize a leftist banality of evil? Driven by duty, but a duty that does not stand the test of pervasive kindness, or even a clear and confident mission.
Dreams are information. They are intimate and NOONE can second-guess what relationship they are referring to.
As intimate, dreams are inside the systems of self-censorship or rationalization that we use to otherwise form order in our in the world agendas.
Use this time, this free time to assess what you are about.
"What am I here for? What does this living all mean?" (to quote a Duke Ellington song).
Richard, you are missing what is most interesting about Phil's dream:
There was no victim or perpetrator!
Philip and all of you, don't be afraid of racists and religious warmongers. It's simple: We nonracists and peaceloving people farly outnumber the racists and religious warmongers.
All we have to do to protect us from the racists and religious warmongers is to stick together: No divide among ethnic, religious, gropus. The only division we need is between those who want justice for all and those who want injustice for all the others.
a leftist banality of evil
That is an illiterate, sub-journalistic piece of amateur phrase-mongering, Richard. It would take you all morning to re-phrase it in remotely intelligible terms, and then it would turn out to be utterly banal and trite, as usual.
You want Jews to be limited by their religion in getting jobs for government.
I would say that's antisemitism.
It appears that either rowan is jealous of Richard, or in love with him.
I haven't enough information to go either way.
David,
Dreams are useful to tell you information about yourself. They are rarely literally about the content itself.
The key protaganist is "I". Phil's relationships through the window of his own subconscious. Feelings that he has that he hasn't named are suggested.
It appears that either rowan is jealous of Richard, or in love with him.
I cannot reiterate often enough that, at the base of the self-conceit of the modern US Jew, is a vulgarised psychoanalytic world-view. This is why they constantly resort to sexual or excretory ad hominems, even without hasbara or giyus coaching them on troll tactics.
Please try to reiterate often enough. It is not enough for most of us that we know you are a verbose fool. We'd also like the rest of the world have that tidbit of info.
Phil's swamp dream is pretty funny to me, and I can literally be in the middle of a swamp with cypress, moss and alligators in less than twenty minutes. And the sight of the cotton fields under a harvest moon would be enough to drive Phil insane with fear. I wonder if Phil's dreams were in color or grainy black-and-white?
I suppose there's some deeper message that I'm just not getting, but Phil's post seems funny to me. Maybe we can figure out a way to scare te hell out of all the people who have moved down here in the last decades and convince them to go back home? If only we were the crazy shotgun totin' zealots we are given credit for being.
Was "American Gothic" written in a haze of hurt? Now that's some ridiculous writing!
Thanks for letting us wonder about these visions, Phil, and for your enlightening responses, Marcus, Rowan, Delia, David, to these Rorschach tests. What about the possibility that the [maybe only temporarily, perhaps?] lost friend is self-dramatizing the friend's own refusal to "let go" of the spectre of ant-Semitism?
One would expect that the credit crunch, the rippoff of the nation by Wall Street, would provoke a populist outcry against "Jewish financiers" sucking the blood out of us good Americans. It is inescapable that many, perhaps even a majority of the Wall Street tycoons are Jewish. Why has the financial crisis not created an upsurge of anti-semitism?
My optimistic view is that, after 2000 years, at least in America, anti-semitism is no longer ever present, dormant within our psyche, ready to escape. Maybe after Hitler anti-semitism is no longer the default clause. Maybe anti-semitism is over.
The idea that there exists some sort of trans-historical essence of "anti-semitism" which survives unchanged for 2,000 years is itself a myth, generated by the famous 'lachrymose school of jewish history'.
The first one was in a southern setting, a picnic area in the woods, with huge cedars or cypresses in low marshy land. A ton of people had gathered there. They seemed like nice people. They had a book out they were all reading from. Then suddenly they all began chanting a Hitler chant.
Interesting setting. Cedars and cypresses are symbolically rich:
Here is the Assimilatonist link:
"The beams of our houses are cedars,
Our rafters, cypresses."
That they chant a Hitler tune is not surprising. What a pity we can't record dream tunes? Or was it more that you knew it was a Hitler tune?
I love this imagery too:
An old Jewish friend of mine who hates my ideas on Jewish identity and Israel was in that dream. He stood on the side of a huge cypress with a rope to measure its girth. He wrapped it twice around the tree and half hung from the side of it, naked. But uninjured. Sort of like performance art. Very vulnerable, he was.
This visualizes your perspective towards antisemitism, it feels. You consider his rope much too long to measure the real "girth". How old do cypresses get?
The naked "Uninjured" rope, knowledge century old scholarship?–somehow remind me of this:
O Cromwell, Cromwell,
Had I but served my God with half the zeal
I served my king, he would not in mine age
Have left me naked to mine enemies.
(The Life of King Henry the Eighth(Wolsey at IV, i)
Do you ever question your dreams immediately after waking up, and still vividly remembering them. I am told this is interesting and helpful.
All we have to do to protect us from the racists and religious warmongers is to stick together: No divide among ethnic, religious, gropus. The only division we need is between those who want justice for all and those who want injustice for all the others.
Posted by: Me | February 02, 2009 at 05:56 AM >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Absolutely right Me.
You said that you sense your dreams expressed anguish over things you say here (which, by default, means whom you attract here).
Arm chair psychologist that I am, I think some Jews, such as yourself, are driven by the fear of the next holocaust. It's just a gut feeling from observation, not something I've studied or can back up with fact.
I don't know what went on personally in your upbringing–and whether some of this rage at the Jewish establishment isn't anger against a parent. The paths we take are driven by many things.
However, Jews are acutely aware of the resentment they stir up in others who feel less accomplished, less powerful, less focused.
It's interesting to me how differently that awareness is expressed in individuals.
Maybe in your case, it's the dark side of a good trait. Some people are highly introspective and tend to blame themselves for anything that goes wrong on the outside.
The problem starts when you start to shoulder ALL of the responsibility. Not only do you warp reality–but you strip others of their own responsibility.
Now, in my opinion, I see some Jewish individuals doing this. Except that, in place of themselves as individuals, they are shifting the blame onto the whole group.
It's a bit masochistic, in my view. Perhaps a need for acceptance…but I can't help going back to what I think is innate fear of something big and violent happening–and your solution on how to avoid getting pushed into an oven.
All this stuff always boils down to something primal–and very personal. That's my point. Rather hastily made because it is complex and I need to get back to my own work here.
Yes, Susie, a friend such as oh say Richard Witty. He measures the girth of the huge cypress tree, the tree of historical anti-semitism,
the standard narrative of its roots, bark, branches, foilage, height, breadth; double-wrapped, he hangs half-way in the air, naked, nobody noticing except Phil who is the only one in the gothic picnic scene who is paying attention to both the contents of the book being read, the readers, and what Richard is doing, to both dramas ending in the unison chant and the soft, silent, harmless hanging.
In the second dream the pen didn’t flow well, Phil had to scratch into the page, like incising it. This represents Phil's battle to fully comprehend and share the fact that the new power establishment is
heavily jewish–how to air dirty laundry without feeding anti-semites?
I think some Jews, such as yourself, are driven by the fear of the next holocaust.
No, Phil isn't driven by a fear of a next holocaust. There is no evidence for that.
It's more a loyalty problem for him. Relatives and friends feel different about matters.
Basically there are two opposing fractions concerning the danger scenario.
a) Every critique of Israel and/or "the lobby" seamlessly connects with century old antisemitic stereotypes. It thus has to be avoided and straying from received wisdom has to be stigmatized.
b) Critique has to be allowed, you can't stop people from thinking. (You can't censor thought, attempts at understanding) It's important to study the ways in which the taboo covers essentially political maneuvers.
None of these two camps possesses the ultimate truth. B) is part of a trend to question democratic structures. It could easily connect with e.g. Christian fundamentalist questioning their own support for the Iraq war? … The Senate and Congress crew questioning theirs? …
Admittedly I too have problems to understand the perception of the "loyalists" or a) crowd: Peres Drops an Eloquence Bomb on Davos
the phrase you seem to be edging around, Suzanne, is "self hating jew," nicht wahr?
Whatever the actual meaning of Phil's dream is, the constant mixing of southern and nazi imagery by American Jews makes no sense. Whatever the failings of Southerners really are, an affinity for Adolf Hitler isn't on the list–I leave the Hitler affinity to the cheeseheads, mid-westerners and west coasters. Most ethnocentric Southerners are far to concerned with their regional identity, Anglo-Celtic roots and the historical wrongs visited upon them to think about Hitler. I don't know about the teens, but most of the older ones I know are Germanophobes, as well!
Southern white supremecists seem to mix very well with the Rowan types as well as the odd nazi character. I understand that the 4th generation nazis are just waiting to adopt the southern strategy in regards to ressurgence of their flag. I fully expect that Rowan will urge them on in whatever official or unofficial capacity he will hold.
" Most ethnocentric Southerners are far to concerned with their regional identity, Anglo-Celtic roots and the historical wrongs visited upon them to think about Hitler."You make a great point–(I definitely agree that they are not driven by some German volkist thing).
But my understanding is that they use the teachings of the Nazi movement to bolster their own ideology and identity myth. So there is an affiliation:
"Stormfront began in 1990 as an online bulletin board for white nationalist activist David Duke's campaign for United States Senator of Louisiana.[1] The name "Stormfront" was chosen for its connotations of a political or militant front and an analogy with weather fronts that invokes the idea of a tumultuous storm ending in cleansing.[1] It was opened to the public in 1994, and the Stormfront.org website was founded in 1995, becoming the first website associated with white supremacy.[2][3] Until this point, attempts at using the Internet for the white pride movement met with limited success,[4] but Stormfront quickly began to become popular with the growth of the Internet at this time, according to owner Don Black.[1][5] A former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and in the 1970s a member of the National Socialist White People's Party (which had changed its name from the American Nazi Party in 1967),[6] Black first received computer training while imprisoned for his role in an abortive 1981 attempt to invade Dominica.[7][8]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormfront_(website)
This is about the extent of the big guy's capacity–and maybe he sends some of his dole money to them too…:-):
link to seattlepi.nwsource.com
Historically here, when Phil has reported dreams, it has been at a point when he is contemplating a big break from the past (say to declare that he is an "anti-Zionist" rather than "post-Zionist" or "a-Zionist".)
Is that what is happening now?
Is he going to Gaza and take up arms for Hamas? Or, is going to come out and say that he is a "Netanyahu supporter" for the prospect of pre-Oslo unification in a single-state, which will then be forced to be democratic?
Suzanne,
I don't know much about Stormfront, and I would guess that most ethnocentrists in the South don't either. Maybe David Duke is trying to be the new Tom Metzger, but I don't think Duke is making much headway. I haven't heard his name in years.
My guess is that most ethnocentrists in the South join groups like the Sons of Confederate Veterans, or the League of the South, which are not the same as groups like the Klan or Stormfront. Individual members of the groups may hold white supremacist views, but I would think that their views are still not the same as those that fed or spring from the eugenics or Nazi movements.
I often come across SVA or LOS types and, like them or not, they aren't Nazi sympathizers.
The original US Jewish logic behind painting all their US opponents as 'white supremacist racists' was that this would prevent them, or at least make it as difficult as possible for them, finding common ground with US Blacks.
This strategy actually collapsed with the rise of the Nation of Islam, but it appears nobody told Chris & Suzanne.
"Don't worry about the antisemites. Just try and figure out what you think, and write it down."
Ding! Give that man a cigar!
Because of my family background, I can put a foot in both the Jewish and Christian worlds. Oddly, the Jews in my family aren't the ones that are mad at me for my research on the history of Zionism. The Catholics/Episcopalians aren't speaking to me, however.
Todd—point taken.
I think I read awhile back that the white power movement came out of the Midwest and has strong roots in California, and surprisingly, is quite strong in New Jersey (I forget if it was New Jersey or New Hampshire).
BTW–anybody else see a correlation between confederate Southerners and Palestinians?
It's called: "You lost the war–now get over it and move on."
Carrying these grudges for 140 something years is ridiculous.
Too bad the Union didn't have the knowledge to do a Marshall Plan on the South.
Maybe the Israelis should consider it. Hmmmm? (they'll have to completely destroy the territories first though–not this mezzo mezzo stuff.)
As with the south, the main problem is an overblown and misbegotten sense of honor overcoming all common sense. The Arabs compound it with the "I am against my brother; My brother and I are against my cousin; mentality and so on and so forth.
"As with the south, the main problem is an overblown and misbegotten sense of honor overcoming all common sense. The Arabs compound it with the "I am against my brother; My brother and I are against my cousin; mentality and so on and so forth."
All of that stuff keeps festering imo, because they got their butts kicked with no clear directive to change course…
People seem to need different incentives for change. With the Arabs, I have to wonder if it's fear.
I still like the 5-state solution myself. A kinder alternative.
Suzanne, it's more of a colonization than a war between two states (like the war of secession in the U.S. ostensibly was).
War seeks a quick, decisive outcome to secure the objectives of the state (such as determining a boundary) at minimal loss of resources. Take Russia's operation in Georgia, for example.
Colonization is the opposite, it's open-ended, think big, and when funded by empires, it's like a blank-check for state appropriation and violence.
And Israel apparently sees it that way, too, provoking Palestinians through the ongoing colonization, establishing walls beyond the 1967 boundaries, denying indigenous full citizenship, and going to great lengths to prove to them its inhumanity, or as the Israelis say, baal habayit hishtageya.
Palestinians and concerned citizens of the world wish the war would be over, but realize that as long as there's still room to grow… Israel is willing to go to war to defend its right to expand.
If Israel merely wanted to defend itself inside secure borders, I think its bloated military budget ought to be sufficient to pay its Nakba reparations, buy out the right of return, compensate the Palestinians for the West Bank aquifer, and thus effectively marginalize violent Palestinian resistance for good.
Then instead of constructing an outwardly aggressive, U.N.-defying, security-surveillance state, it could concentrate on building peaceful, profitable future with its neighbors, something normal states do, instead of colonization.
With the Arabs, I beleieve it is honor. And because it is honor, they will not rest nor they will not surrender. So the Israeli problem will continue for a few more hundred years.
"buy out the right of return"
MM–this I can live with! If they want to make that part of the 5-state solution…that would be great.
2 sovereign states — and none of this deceptive smoke and mirrors crap about Palestinians moving back into Israel.
"With the Arabs, I beleieve it is honor. And because it is honor, they will not rest nor they will not surrender. So the Israeli problem will continue for a few more hundred years."
If this were my final conclusion, I'd personally pulverize them and end the problem. I'm 50% Irish and more fierce than the Israelis. :-)
I'm holding out on the hope that a plan that doesn't let either side off the hook (with a military presence)–can see this through to peace.
Suzanne, are you as against the ongoing colonization as you are against the never-to-even-be-attempted right-of-return?
I don't know about Suzanne, but I don't believe the settlements should expand and I don't think the majority of the settlements belong their. I do believe eastern Jerusalem is part of the city and not part of any palestinian future.
Right of return? If the future palestinian government wishes to allow all 10 million palestinians to live in their future state, that is no skin off my ass. None of my business. But into Israel? Nope.
MM–I've pretty much made it clear on several postings here that I am against the whole settlement thing.
I understand the rationale of why settlements were created for security purposes…but it's a dumb idea. If for no other reason than the settlers have this wacky religious idea of expanding into some ancient concept of greater Israel.
That's not going to happen–nor should it on moral grounds–so they need to wake up and smell the Arab coffee.
The settlers were used as pawns in a chess game between Israelis and Arabs.
Unlike you, that's my only moral issue with Israel–and it doesn't define her, in my mind. However, the settlement issue is huge. I realize there is land still in dispute–but that doesn't negate the fact that Israel MUST give up settlements that are on Palestinian property.
So, Suzanne, and chris berel also, I guess you can imagine why for some Palestinians their right of return is viewed by them as non-negotiable? If not, why not?
Also, Suzzanne, since you 50% Irish, perhaps you can better respond
to dana's analogies, the one refering to "the troubles" at least–chris was not up to the job.
As far as some essence of Arabs to account for their conduct over history in some of the comments above–who has the longest record of instilling ancestral grudge they can't let go of, and they celebrate it in shul and holidays. And the upside of that is…honor. Nasty combo and we all get to pay for it.
As for lumping Southern rednecks with neoNazis. Jewish Hollywood has been doing that for scores of years. It's like an old time white racist not being able to see any difference in black faces, as in "Hey, they all look the same to me."
As the Palestinians living outside israel have no inherent right to reside in israel, there is no need to answer your question.
So now you're whining about Hollywood showing the truth about the connection between Southern White supremicism and neo-nazis? is there nothing you don't whine about or blame the Jews for your sorry life?
"BTW–anybody else see a correlation between confederate Southerners and Palestinians?
It's called: "You lost the war–now get over it and move on."
Carrying these grudges for 140 something years is ridiculous."
Exactly who can't move on? I don't think it's white Southerners who constantly bang the drum of negative regional stereotypes or historical half-truths in movies and media.
Someone already made the point that the world is paying for supposed ancient wrongs done to Jews. I'm really fucking tired of hearing about the holocaust, but we all know that isn' going away any time soon. Move on, huh?
I don't have a problem with Southerners who would like to leave the Union. The United States isn't going to last forever, and the region would make a natural unit if divided properly. Your comment about moving on after losing a war is valid only if might makes right.
Tired of hearing? Cut off your ears and shove them into the ear canal. The you won't hear.
Actually, the north and Israel are right. Nice to know they had the might to back it up. Of course, that sucks for you, but we don't care what sucks for you.