On C-Span, I just caught a portion of Trinity Professor Samuel Kassow's recent lecture at the Tenement Museum in New York on the Warsaw ghetto archives that were somehow preserved through the Holocaust. Kassow has written a book called, Who Will Write Our History? Most of Kassow's talk was historical. He said that even dying, Jews understood they were part of an Ashkenazi Jewish "nation" whose ways must be preserved. He said that many Americans know this history from reading John Hersey's The Wall.
Someone asked about the Jewish life of Warsaw now, and Kassow said it was flourishing, but in a very small way. I think I heard him say it is about 5000 identified members, with about 20,000 others of Jewish heritage.
Then Kassow said that in Israel, you see long lines of Israelis at the Polish embassy, seeking visas to go to Poland so they can work "in the EU." Poland is Israel's best friend in Europe, he continued. There is none of the "mishigos" or "hysteria" that you find in, say, France, about Israel's behavior.
He was talking about the Gaza slaughter, obviously, in which an enclosed population was lately bombed and assaulted, and 412 children were killed, leading some non-Zionist Jews to compare Gaza to the Warsaw ghetto.
A few questions:
How imprisoned are we Jews by our history? Can we see the facts before our eyes? Does it mean anything that Kassow, a Zionist evidently, teaches at an American college with a strong Episcopalian tradition that blossomed into universalism in the last century? What is to be made of what John Mearsheimer often describes as "reverse aliyah," the demonstrated preference of many Israelis to live in the west, notwithstanding the disturbing history of antisemitism in the west? Does it mean that Israel/Palestine is not of the west? And what is to be made of the desire of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to return to the land, or maybe even visit it, from which they were expelled 60 years ago, or exiled from by the creation of The Wall, more recently?
(Finally, Sunday bonus question, the only question that American Jews really ought to consider: what does it mean that the most powerful man in Israel today (for he possesses the swing vote) is a racist who moved to Israel from Russia under the "law of return" and now suggests that if he had his druthers he would expel hundreds of thousands of people of a different race and religion from himself whose ancestors have been living there for a long long time?)
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Only a guy like "Pig Weiss" thinks that Gaza and the Warsaw ghetto were the same thing. Or Eva. whose family used to hunt down Jews and turn them in to the Germans for the reward.
Shut the fuck up moron. This article was not about the comparison. It was about quite the opposite.
The tragedy of the Warsaw Ghetto is the foundation for notion which the lecturer implies that 'other' countries, unlike Poland, go nutz over Israel's 'right to defend itself'.
So then, the lecturer launches into all this sanctimonious drivel about Poland and blah blah, while ignoring Gaza and downplaying and whitewashing the facts (Gaza massacre planned before the truce, Israel MFA report noted that Hamas maintained the truce and defiant groups mostly caused the sporadic rocket fire during the lull not Hamas themselves, etc.).
Seriously, I'm beginning to wonder if Berel, Suzanne, Thom, this retard SoG, etc. are all sockpuppets of a pro-Palestinian because there's no way they could all be this diligent.
At least Witty tries to be reasonable. Keyword : tries. Witty is smart and can discuss these issues somewhat rationally, although I disagree with him.
These sockpuppets are parodies of Zionists, who themselves are parodies of all religious-ethnic Nationalists throughout history.
You freaks have to be doing it for the lulz. Maybe you're from /b/?
"Pig Weiss" himself said that Gaza is equivalent to the Warsaw ghetto, worse probably. And Eva, she's upset that any Jews managed to survive the war.
"What is to be made of what John Mearsheimer often describes as "reverse aliyah," the demonstrated preference of many Israelis to live in the west, notwithstanding the disturbing history of antisemitism in the west? Does it mean that Israel/Palestine is not of the west?"
It means Israel is not NECESSARY.
Unfortunately supporting it's existence either thoughtfully or blindly has become part of the fabric of what it means to be Jewish.
Germany proved Israel is neccessary. That there is not a current credible threat to Jewry today is no reason to let down one's guard.
I don't carry insurance because someone is aiming a car towards mine today, but because it may occur ten years from now.
'That there is not a current credible threat to Jewry today is no reason to let down one's guard.'
Pure zionist paranoia. It must be miserable, living under the delusion that 99 percent of humanity wants to kill your tribe, and is just waiting for another opportunity to do so.
If Israel wasn't the answer, how about an undersea colony? How about the Moon, Mars, Venus? Make the Martian deserts bloom … a land without people for a people without land. I'll be glad to chip in for some rocket fuel.
Yes, quite miserable. Of course, over 2000 years of continuous persecution is bound to make anyone worry.
I wonder why so many antisemites say, "Relax, no one actually wants to hurt you."?
You can always use the excuse Henry Ford used when he realized how much he contributed to the Holocaust. Insanity.
Ever wonder why Jews turn a deaf ear to you and your ilk?
Phil, you must have read Philip Roth's wonderful Operation Shylock, in which one character (named Philip Roth) propagates the doctrine of "Diasporism", which says the true home of the Jews, the land where they contributed the most to civilization, is Poland.
The point he makes is when you consider the genius of the Jewish people, how few great artists have come out of Israel. It is the diaspora where the greatness of the Jews is most apparent.
Jews getting ready to finally come back to steal Poland out from under it's people. How depressing. I wish you all would finally leave our fucking country alone, and go to Israel where you belong. We don't want you here. We lost 6 million Poles during WWII, so tell you sad Holocaust stories to someone who cares.
According to Judea Pearl in the LA Jewish Journal, being pro-Israel or pro-Zionist will be a hindrance to one's academic career.
Dust Over Campus Life: UCLA at a Crossroad
Guess Dr. Finkelstein didn't get the memo.
The "Fink" was unique case of insanity. Hard to compare him to other little nazi's
chris has a point. Israel is, for every jew like him, an insurance policy he intends to keep at all costs. Lesson learned courtesy of Germany, he says. By the same token host nations of the jewish diaspora also need
to keep the chris berels of the world in mind for the host nations do not have a foreign country as insurance. There's an obvious conflict of interests. If not, why not?
"Does it mean that Israel/Palestine is not of the west?"
For all that Tel Aviv reminds me of any number of American cities I've experienced, I would say that, no, Israel/Palestine is not of the west. It is itself. Israel's main feature is its isolation from its neighbours. As we've seen over the years, this has created serious paranoia: everyone is out to get Israel; everyone but Israel is rabidly antisemitic. The 2006 war against Lebanon and the recent slaughter in Gaza were both cases of testing the limits of American tolerance, because underneath all that arrogance and posturing, Israel is a deeply insecure society. It need to know that the world's only superpower will continue to support it because, then, Israel doesn't have to care what the rest of the world thinks of it. So there will continue to be regular slaughterings, if only for the purpose of making sure that America is still onside. And it will be. For as Robert Fisk just pointed out, American politics is not about justice; it's about power.
SOG/TP (toilet paper?) – So you agree with Pearl that, other than in the case of Dr. Finkelstein (to whom you so readily refer to a 'nazi' though his parents were direct victims), anti-Zionism and/or anti-Semitism runs amok at US campuses?
I thought there was a large percentage of Jewish scholars at institutions of higher learning so can I assume that they are most all like the "good Germans" who ignore unpleasant realities to get by?
Don't worry Jan, nobody wants Poland. You're safe, your house is safe, and the pigs you fuck are safe.
The above post is not by Jim Haygood. It's from our resident ID thief, SOG aka Bill Pearlman.
Ever notice how Zionists deflect all their evil deeds/disgusting characteristics onto others?
Like the human shield nonsense. Israel sought to legalize human shields and B'Tselem/BBC/etc. have all documented Israel using human shields.
Then you have torture. Israel regularly uses torture. Once again, B'Tselem shines a light here.
Then you have hostage taking. Israel legalized hostage taking. But whines about Shalit, while keeping 1000 Palestinian, 'administrative' detainees hostage. No papers. No reason. Nothing.
Israel goes on and on about antisemitism but what about the blatant and open anti-Arab racism? The public opinion polls which document the racism and the popular consensus for ethnically cleansing the Israeli Arabs?
Zionism is pure evil. Israelis aren't born racist/ethnocentric/nationalistic, it's drilled into their heads.
Israel, a secular democracy (for Jews only) with all the money/military/etc. support IN THE WORLD is this fascist/racist/discriminatory State.
It just proves to you how strong the Palestinians and the Arabs are in that region. They have a reason to hate Israelis (the Occupation). Although the obvious conflation with all Jews (helped by freaks like Suzanne/Thom/Berel/SoG and the Alan Dershowitzs of the world) is wrong.
While the Zionists, with all their might and luxury are TEACHING their children from a young age and conditioning them, via the policies and culture of the society to hate Arabs.
It doesn't help that American politics is Occupied Territory as well.
WW3 coming soon! At least there is a hope that Israel can get its ass handed to it by Iran.
The point he makes is when you consider the genius of the Jewish people, how few great artists have come out of Israel. It is the diaspora where the greatness of the Jews is most apparent.
Posted by: Tom | February 22, 2009 at 12:35 PM
But Tom, Israel is only 60 years old. How many great artists do you expect from a small country after only 60 years? Especially when the national goal is still survival in a hostile environment.
A lot. Ashkenazis came from all over the Western and former USSR worlds to populate, and supplement, fully educated at universities at the expense of the goy
host nations.
"Can we see the facts before our eyes? Does it mean anything that Kassow, a Zionist evidently, teaches at an American college with a strong Episcopalian tradition that blossomed into universalism in the last century?"
Oh, yes, it does!
"My race is just nothing": Some thoughts on the political psychology of women,
by Kevin MacDonald.
I can't believe anyone, other than Joachim, uses MacDonald as a source. He is probably the most discredited professor still teaching.
Discredited by whom chris?
Only by your zionist friends and the goys who want to keep their jobs in the ivory towers.
Those who don't want to be laughed out of their jobs by their peers. Mac is the laughing stock of working academia. Finky and Ward used to be laughingstocks. Now they're just unemployed bums, like Phil.
Great, chris, you have nothing meaty to say. You don't like what some one says, you just call them names.
How about you show us why Mac, Finky, and Ward do not show the truth? Take up anything they've said, your choice, and let's see you prove their observations and support sources wrong. You can not do so. Onlookers take notice how chris responds to this challenge.
Need something meaty to say to a fruitcake like Citizen? why bother? The little antisemitic git is nothing but part of the pack called Phil's Phools.
The agressive attitude of some hasbara people to Polish people can possibly be understood better by this recollection of a writer and journalist, Erin Einhorn:
"Now, headed for Poland, I could no longer escape the fact that I was moving to a country I had been taught to hate. … I’d only ever heard one thing about Poles: that they hated me, that they hated all
Jews, that they always had, that they’d collaborated with the Nazis, aided in our demise, and that by 1945 they’d rejoiced in having what they had always wanted: a country free of Jews.
… people like my grandparents, the survivor generation, emerged from the war with a blazing hatred for the Poles … And they passed that hatred on to their children. It was why, I suspected, Art
Spiegelman, the son of a survivor from Sosnowiec, the town next to the one where my mother was born, drew the Poles as pigs in his holocaust comic book, Maus, and the Germans as comparatively
pleasant cats. The implication from our parents and grandparents was that the Germans, while evil and calculating in the war, were basically intelligent people who were swept catastrophically
into nationalistic frenzy, while the Poles were anti-Semitic pigs. There was a reason—I had been told many times with a wink—that the Germans located the death camps in Poland, that the German people never would have stood for such horror on their own land.
Poles, I was told, had welcomed the camps. They’d embraced the chance to see Jews die around them. Even my mother, who was saved by a Polish family, told me the family only did it for the money.
The reasonable part of me didn’t believe this. People don’t risk their lives for money alone, and such horrible, sweeping statements couldn’t possibly apply to an entire population without benefit
of nuance or exception. But these perceptions were there, coloring my expectations. …
I think I knew that 75 percent of Dutch Jews had been murdered. But when I thought about the Netherlands, I’d thought about other, more pleasant things—windmills, tulips, open fields. I’d never thought to hate the Dutch for what they did to Anne Frank. And yet I’d always blamed the Poles for Auschwitz.
Erin Einhorn, "The Pages In Between: A Holocaust Legacy of Two Families, One Home" 2008
I believe it was a Jewish Holocaust writer who wrote that the accusations against the Poles by Jews of "Why didn't you save *us*?" ignored the fact that the Poles were themselves being brutalized by the Nazis at the same time.
It would be nice for the regulars here to ignore the trolls, as it has been pointed out they will not engage in actual conversation or debate, instead just throwing out their usual ad hominems. Phil needs to do a running thread/list of their hateful, bigoted spew so that they can be relegated to a cesspool of their own making. It might help the occasional visitor understand why they are worth ignoring.
It would be nice for the regulars here to ignore the trolls,
Posted by: LanceThruster
But Lance, we are doing our best to ignore your trollish behavior, but every once in a while you post something so stupid that one of us regulars just have to point it out.
This just happened to be one of those whiles.
Eva's drunk again. oy vey! :-)
I’d never thought to hate the Dutch for what they did to Anne Frank. And yet I’d always blamed the Poles for Auschwitz.
Erin Einhorn, "The Pages In Between: A Holocaust Legacy of Two Families, One Home" 2008
Posted by: Eva Smagacz
But Eva, the Dutch punished the collaborators while the Poles continued to just punish the Jews. The Dutch welcomed the Jews back and the Poles murdered the jews who tried to come back.
Enough snacking on Chris Berel's and Suzanne's poisoned cracker crumbs. Here's a small portion of the meat, of the main course:
"A number of Polish individuals, organizations and communities attempted to rescue their Jewish neighbours. Fighting the German occupation, Poles organized one of the largest underground resistance movements in Europe (Polish Underground State and its military arm, the Armia Krajowa). Supported by the Polish government in exile, those organizations within their structures had set up special organizations dedicated specifically to help Jews; of those, the most notable was the Żegota organization.
Both Jews and Poles were hampered by one of the most drastic conditions in all of German–occupied Europe. In German-occupied Poland any kind of help to a Jew was punishable by death and thousands of Poles were murdered by the Nazi for offering assistance to Jews.
Although Poles collectively were powerless to affect the Jewish fate, estimates put the number of Poles involved in rescue efforts of Jews in the hundreds of thousands, and credit them with helping to save tens of thousands of Jewish people. Polish citizens have the world's highest count (6,066) of individuals awarded medals of Righteous among the Nations, given by the State of Israel to non-Jews who saved Jews from extermination during the Holocaust.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Announcement of death penalty for Jews captured outside the Ghetto and for Poles helping Jews.
Public execution of Michał Kruk and several other people in Przemyśl.
The Germans applied a ruthless retaliation policy in an attempt to discourage Poles from helping the Jews and to destroy any attempts of the resistance. On November 10, 1941, the death penalty was introduced by Hans Frank, governor of the General Government, to apply to Poles who helped Jews "in any way: by taking them in for the night, giving them a lift in a vehicle of any kind" or "feed[ing] runaway Jews or sell[ing] them foodstuffs." The law was made public by posters distributed in all major cities.[44] The imposition of the death penalty on Poles for aid to Jews was unique to Poland among all Nazi occupied countries, and was a result of the conspicuous and spontaneous nature of this aid.[10]
Nazi death squads carried out the mass executions of entire villages that were discovered to be aiding Jews on a communal level.[7][45] For example, the Ulma family (father, mother and six children) of the village of Markowa, near Łańcut, where many families concealed their Jewish neighbors, were executed by the Nazis.[46] In the villages of Białka near Parczew and Sterdyń near Sokołów Podlaski, 150 villagers were massacred for sheltering Jews.[47] In November 1942, the Ukrainian SS squad executed 20 villagers from Berecz in Wołyń Voivodeship for giving aid to Jewish escapees from the ghetto in Povorsk.[48] Michał Kruk and several other people in Przemyśl were executed on September 6, 1943, for the assistance they had rendered to the Jews. Altogether, in the town and its environs 415 Jews (including 60 children) were saved, in return for which the Germans killed 568 people of Polish nationality.[49] Several hundred Poles were massacred with their priest, Adam Sztark, in Słonim on December 18, 1942, for sheltering Jews in a church. In Huta Stara near Buczacz, Polish Christians and the Jewish countrymen they protected were herded into a church by the Nazis and burned alive on March 4, 1944.[50]
Entire communities that helped shelter Jews were destroyed, such as the now-extinct village of Huta Werchobuska near Złoczów, Zahorze near Łachwa,[51] Huta Pieniacka near Brody[52] or Stara Huta near Szumsk.[53]
Additionally, after the end of the war Poles who saved Jews during the Nazi occupation, very often became the object of repression by the communist security apparatus.[54
link to en.wikipedia.org
The footnotes go to highly reputable sources.
Judging by the comments by the likes of Chris Berel, SOG, and Suzanne, we can easily grasp that if they had been born Polish during Hitler's occupation of Poland they clearly would not have helped anyone but themselves, least of all the Jews. The test of virtue is power.
Speaking of which, BTW, how many privileged American jews
have stood up in public for the innocent Palestinians in the last four decades? How many have stood up so to
protest the US invasion and massacre of Iraqis?
"I can't believe anyone, other than Joachim, uses MacDonald as a source. He is probably the most discredited professor still teaching."
Discredited like Joan Peters?, someone who was idolized by people like you Chris?!
Dershie has been discredited too, right along with his soul mate Peters. Chris Berel, SOG, Suzanne, Thom et al–carry on the tradition, to the best of their ability, which isn't much as viewers here plainly see.
Is Joan Peter's using MacDonald as a source? Who is Joan Peter's? Is she on this blog? Where is there a reference anywhere except in your delusional mind to a Joan Peters?
Why is Citizen still posting antisemitic bullshit? Didn't he get the memo or is he deliberately out of the loop?
Enough of Eva's and the Senator from shitland:
Post-World War II/ Communist Era
Eighty-five percent of Polish Jewry perished in the Holocaust. Following the war, many survivors fled to Romania and Germany in hope of reaching Palestine. Those who remained attempted to rebuild Jewish life in the 200 local communities. The American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and ORT opened schools and hospitals for the Jewish communities in Poland.
Jews were still subject to anti-Semitism and pogroms. The Kielce Pogrom in July 1946, in which 40 Jews were killed, was the impetus for another mass emigration. At the end of 1947, only 100,000 Jews remained in Poland.
The Soviet Union’s secret police essentially governed the country and Stalin’s anti-Semitic regime stifled Jewish cultural and religious activities. Jewish schools were nationalized in 1948-49 and Yiddish was no longer used as the language of instruction.
Stalin’s death in 1953 eased the situation for the Jews, who then were allowed to reestablish connections with Jewish organizations abroad and began producing Jewish literature. In this 1958-59 period, 50,000 Jews emigrated to Israel, which was the only country Jews were able to immigrate to under Polish law.
The last mass migration of Jews from Poland took place in 1968-69, after Israel’s 1967 War, because of the anti-Jewish policy adopted by Polish communist parties, which closed down Jewish youth camps, schools and clubs. Following the 1967 War, Poland broke off diplomatic relations with Israel.