I can only do this site with help from genius friends. It's social media. One of them sent me some links and comment this morning:
Here is some more good stuff on Schumer's closet-neocon agenda from Glenn Greenwald (overlapping with our points of last night and adding some). Greenwald:
The real goal, as always, was to ensure that there is no debate over
America's indescribably self-destructive, blind support for Israeli
actions. Freeman critics may have scored a short-term victory in that
regard, but the more obvious it becomes what is really driving these
scandals, the more difficult it will be to maintain this suffocating
control over American debates and American policy.
Also, this by the Israeli psychologist Carlo Strenger, from the Guardian on Israel's rightward turn [Weiss: the kind of stuff you don't see in the US]: Binyamin Netanyahu
will soon present a narrow, right-wing government to the Israeli
Knesset. It is worth pondering a commonality between him and this
government's second main force, Avigdor Lieberman.
Both have a clearly defined world view. At its core is the belief that
the Middle Eastern conflict is in essence the expression of a clash of
civilisation between the Judeo-Christian west and Islam. Netanyahu has
written books about this, and Lieberman has said it time and again.
Neither of them sees the solution of the conflict between Israel and
the Palestinians as something that is of any value if detached from the
geopolitical configuration as they see it…
The person who sent me the Strenger noted that he fails to point out that ANY Israeli government today would be bad–given the warlike disposition and close-mindedness of 90% of the people and the foreknowledge that whatever they do will be supported by the U.S. And she quotes a friend: "Israel today is like the Old South–it didn't matter who ran for governor."
Related posts:
- ‘All Things Considered’ was a miracle baby in 1990. And now? (I’m not giving away the punchline in the headline)
- Lieberman continues to influence the discussion in the US – Wash Post refers to Israel’s ethnic cleansing
- The Economist calls for the US to cut aid to Israel
- Must-read: Greenwald on Goldberg
- J Street: Israel increasingly runs counter to American Jewish values & US national interests
{ 31 comments }
How do you change hearts and minds, by shelling them?
How do you allow Americans to be responsible citizens by giving them only the Likud side of such an important issue?
It must be hard for liberal Jews who supported the Civil Rights movement in the US to hear this. I'd feel sorry for them if I didn't think so many of them were merely opportunists, using the inequalities of the segregated American South as a club to bash the WASP power structure. Until liberal Jews get as outraged today as they expected liberal goyim to be in the '60s, then it's hard not to see this as their own karma coming around to bite them on the tush. After all, they who live by collective guilt-tripping die by collective guilt-tripping…
Let's see:
1. Israel grants refuge to Africans displaced by Islamic genocidal actions in Darfur – but the rest of the Islamic world does not.
2. Israel permits people to practice any religion or no religion at all.
3. Israel supports womens' rights and its society does not promote "honor killings" or require, subject to punishment by the state, a "modest" form of dress for its women.
4. Israel doesn't have "don't ask, don't tell". Its homosexuals serve openly in the Army and are suject to the death penalty (as in Iran) for being gay.
5. Israel does not seek, as a policy matter, to kill Arabs or prevent the practice of Islam; Hamas seeks the murder of Jews, restricts the practice of religions other than Islam and supports murder of those converting from Islam to another religion.
Kevin's post above is completely wrong-headed. The JEWS are the Blacks in any realist view of the scenario. The Jews are a minority surrounded by a billion people hostile to their religion and ethnicity. In Muslim countries, Jews are legally classified as Dhimmis – second class citizens whose testimony in court is not worth as much as a practitioner of Islam. Muslims are the ones who are committing terrorizing mass murders of civilians – just like the Klan tried to do in the South. The "power structure" in the MidEast is held by monarchs or tyrants (such as the Saudi kings, the Gulf emirs, Assad, etc.) who keep their populace down and have strongly illiberal philosophies.
So, anyone who supported the Civil Rights movement can wholeheartedly support the Jews in Israel who are existentially threatened by the racism and murderous intent of Palestinian leaders, Syria, Iran and others.
Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism. No ones keeping you from being anti-Zionist, but don't pretend, for a minute, that you are not a racist if you think that Jews (along with Kurds and Tibetans) are the only people in the world (with a separate language, culture and historical homeland) that are not entitled to their own nationhood.
Fenton's arguments no longer have any traction for an increasing number of Americans and Jews. They know hypocrisy when they smell it And, irony of ironies, they were taught this trick by Jewish leftists. If the Jewish community wants to know who is responsible for turning more and more people into critics of Zionism and Israeli brutality, they can go look in the mirror. You can't teach us all to sympathize with Anne Frank and Emmett Till and then expect us to to turn all of that training off when Jews act like monsters. Some insincere and chauvinistic Jews might be able to handle that kind hypocrisy, but the goyim just will not.
Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism.
So one is anti-Semitic if one believes states should have no State Religion? That would expand anti-Semitisim into meaninglessness. Not a good idea for something that can be quite virulent.
How do you change hearts and minds, by shelling them?
It took military defeat and occupation, followed by 144 years to change hearts and minds in the South to what they are today. Are Israelis any less racist than Southern whites of 1865?
I'd go a little further than Gleen Greenwald does, when he says the more obvious it becomes what is really driving these scandals, the more difficult it will be to maintain this suffocating control over American debates and American policy. I would say that the spell has been broken (and I use that metaphor deliberately).
That's why I said, I hope you remember what happened to Britain's empire after 1948. And I hope you can see the next axis that Israel will form, the next protector it will choose. My bet is China, and oddly enough, one reason for not wanting Freeman around might be that Israel feared he could have too many channels to China of his own, or be part of some network that did. They will need to make sure that the US has no connections of its own to China that they can't choke off at will.
Anti-Zionism is absolutely anti-Semitism.
This is a ridiculous statement wallowing in contemptible self-pity and moral cowardice.
No ones keeping you from being anti-Zionist, but don't pretend, for a minute, that you are not a racist if you think that Jews (along with Kurds and Tibetans) are the only people in the world (with a separate language, culture and historical homeland) that are not entitled to their own nationhood.
I don't have a problem with your nationhood. I have a problem with ethnic cleansing, colonization, and terrorism being carried out by Israel and blamed on my innocent people because we are being fleeced to pay for it financially and politically. American Zionists selling out my country are traitors. If there were an 'American Lobby' in Israel selling it out you would call them the same.
Harcourt Fenton
1. In fact, Israel kicks out Darfur refugees: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/894800.html
Thousands are in Egypt alone. Maybe only 500 are in Israel
2. How do you marry if you are an atheist? And why is there an apartheid law preventing Palestinian-Israeli marriages?
3. Tell that to the Haredim beating up 'immodestly' dressed women.
4. Does it have an don't-ask-don't-tell about more serious aspects of the army? such as nuclear weapons?
5. The figures from Gaza tell a different story (1300+ dead Palestinians, including 400+ kids… and 13 Israelis)
Witty, you are disgusting.
I'd tell you what a coward and phony you are, but everyone knows this already.
Shelling civilians? Tell me Witty, how can you kill 1400 people – mostly civilians; mostly children – in three weeks and expect to call yourself a human being?
Fuck you Witty. Sanctimonious scumbag.
Shelling Witty?
What about the SHELLING of Gaza? The 1300 dead in three weeks? The 400+ children dead in three weeks? The civilian infrastructure wrecked? The blockade STILL imposed?
Take your sanctimonious garbage and shove it.
Hardcore Fenton, yet another lying Zionist posing as a liberal (a wolf in sheep's clothing). They're a dime a dozen.
Great observations, Kevin S.
1. Israel grants refuge to Africans displaced by Islamic genocidal actions in Darfur – but the rest of the Islamic world does not.
***There's evidence that the Ethiopian Jews living in Israel experience daily discrimination. It's probably the same for these Africans. Just a PR stunt indeed.
2. Israel permits people to practice any religion or no religion at all.
***Once again, at a cost. Non-Jews or Jews that disagree with Zionism are treated like second-class citizens.
3. Israel supports womens' rights and its society does not promote "honor killings" or require, subject to punishment by the state, a "modest" form of dress for its women.
***Neither does our society. Honor killings are isolated incidents that most Palestinians abhor. Palestinian women are more modernized than many other Arabs, and you can see that in the diversity of the dress in the West Bank. Even in Gaza it's not mandatory to wear Islamic dress. Most people do so out of respect for tradition, not because they're forced to.
And the other extreme is worse. When I go out to do my errands I don't want to see half-naked people running around showing stuff that makes my stomach turn. You're just jealous of our society because our women respect themselves and won't submit to your wiles and become yet another of your many "sexual conquests".
4. Israel doesn't have "don't ask, don't tell". Its homosexuals serve openly in the Army and are suject to the death penalty (as in Iran) for being gay.
***Homosexuality is blatantly forbidden in Judaism. On the one hand you support a government based on religious beliefs that they were supoosedly the chosen people but on the other hand you champion the fact that they are spitting in the face of their G-d's laws. There's no such thing as a secular theocracy. You can't have it both ways, Jethro.
5. Israel does not seek, as a policy matter, to kill Arabs or prevent the practice of Islam; Hamas seeks the murder of Jews, restricts the practice of religions other than Islam and supports murder of those converting from Islam to another religion.
***This is totally false. It has been openly stated in the past by top Zionist officals that their final wish is to have an Arab-free society. And about Islam, well, the existence of a Jewish state cannot be possible if some worship Islam. So it's either/or. Like I said, cuntry boy, you can't have it both ways.
Kevin's post above is completely wrong-headed. The JEWS are the Blacks in any realist view of the scenario.
***I must once again correct you, ZioPuke. Are we going to have to address once again the Zionists' regarding of Blacks as "lesser"?
The Jews are a minority surrounded by a billion people hostile to their religion and ethnicity. In Muslim countries, Jews are legally classified as Dhimmis – second class citizens whose testimony in court is not worth as much as a practitioner of Islam.
***First off "dhimmi" means "protected person". They have this term so they may NOT experience discrimination, whereas you ZioPuke have "goy" to denote a non-Jew, for what purpose? Sounds a little like the pot calling the kettle black, eh?
And where the hell did you get your figures? There aren't a billion people in the Arab world, there's only 300 million. Oh, were you talking about Muslims? Reality check boy, the most populous Muslim nation isn't even in the Middle East, it's over 2,000 miles from Israel!!! How could they be a threat? Mr.Bodine, methinks maybe you an eg-no-ray-moose.
So what if there's more Muslims than Jews. There's more Christians than Muslims. So does that make Muslims under threat from Christians? No.
Muslims are the ones who are committing terrorizing mass murders of civilians – just like the Klan tried to do in the South.
***Ehhh…the old Muslim=Terrorist gig again. Sounds like you're the one in the Klan. What's your rank, Grand CheezWiz?
The "power structure" in the MidEast is held by monarchs or tyrants (such as the Saudi kings, the Gulf emirs, Assad, etc.) who keep their populace down and have strongly illiberal philosophies.
***This "power structure" was built and maintained by none other than your buddies in the CIA and Mi5 to serve your greater interests. The ordinary Arab on the street does not want these thugs in power, but my tax dollars, which I must add I work very hard for, keep this machine of tyranny well-oiled. These idiots are none other than American puppets. You know that. Stop puttingthe blame on us. You ZioNuts control the machine.
To Ed – "Yet another lying Zionist".
The only response, Ed: "Yet another misguided Racist. They're a penny a thousand."
To Jim – The Haredim don't control the government. It is not a crime in Israel to dress without a head covering. In Saudi Arabia, it is.
To Kevin – Really? Acting like "monsters"? Acting like "monsters" is encouraging your children to blow themselves up in a disco or a pizza parlor. You seem to constantly vilify Israel and its defensive actions with names like "monsters" and "ethnic cleansing", etc. Maybe Israel should actually act like others have acted towards it in the past – maybe they should expel or murder all of the Gazans and West Bankers. Then what would you call them? You don't have anything harsher in your vocabulary than what you've already used because you've conflated ANY defensive action against hostile parties as "genocidal" or worse. So, you can still feel bad that Anne Frank, who never threw rocks at the Germans or planted bombs in a Dutch cafe, was forced to die in a concentration camp. And perhaps you can tell the difference that the Jews are not doing the same – or, if they are, they are doing a really bad job. The Nazis only took a few years to butcher millions and took pleasure in killing and torturing children and babies. The Israelis have only killed thousands since 1948 – with no direct purpose to kill women and children. (Compared with the Americans and British who have killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis in 2 wars in the last 20 years).
To Colin: The US is being "sold out"? To whom? By whom? The real story is that we are deeply in bed with the Saudis and, because of oil (and the interests of the US oil and gas industry based in Texas), we nod and wink to women being jailed for drinking coffee with a colleague in a Starbucks.
Here are a few recent incidents that you should be proud of:
"A 37-year-old American businesswoman and mother-of-three was recently thrown in jail for sitting with a male colleague at a Starbucks coffee shop.
In another high-profile case, an illiterate Saudi woman is hoping that King Abdullah will spare her life after she was condemned to death for “witchcraft.” Her accusers included a man who claimed that the woman, Fawzi Falih, had made him impotent with her sorcery.
An international human rights group said Falih — who faces being publicly beheaded — was allegedly beaten by religious police and forced into fingerprinting a false confession.
Prosecutors are currently investigating 57 young men arrested last week for flirting with girls at shopping centres in Mecca. They were accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to catch the attention of girls. The men insisted they were just trying to “have fun” without “imposing themselves” on the women.
And a teenaged victim of a gang rape was sentenced last year to 200 lashes and six years in jail for having been in an unrelated man’s car at the time. She was pardoned by King Abdullah, although he maintained the sentence had been fair."
So – what does one call someone who believes that beheading is a barbaric form of punishment for witchcraft? Or who doesn't believe that there is any such thing as "witchcraft", and, if there is, that it doesn't deserve punishment? Apparently, a "lying Zionist" – or, what is really intended by that comment – a "lying Jew".
Just in case anyone needs a few more indications that Fenton doesn't know what he is talking about, here are a few tidbits from the Israeli press.
"Woman beaten on Jerusalem bus for refusing to move to rear seat"
http://haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=801449&contrassID=19
"Converted to Islam? The government will send you to a psychiatrist"
http://oznik.com/words/021212.html
Part of the problem the Zionists face is that they are living in the 21st century, but embracing a racist ideology that is more in keeping with its 19th century origins. Leftist Jews have, over the years, labored mightily to combat such racist, unscientific, and outdated ideologies and the consistent and authentic leftist Jews have also fought against Zionism for the same reasons. Now the Zionists confront a real problem – somewhat of their own making. It was the Jews who taught the goyim that nationalism and ethnic chauvinism are always wrong. After having taught that lesson, they search in vain for a way to make the Jews the exceptions to their own endless preaching and moralistic teachings. How can they do that? After all, how can you be part of a group that sees itself as the "chosen" and superior, while simultaneously condemning every other group as "irrational" and "pathological" when its members make, and act, on the same claims? This double standard has haunted the Jewish community for years and the only silver lining in the tragedy of the colonialist enterprise in Palestine is that it is, at long last, bringing this ancient contradiction out into the light of day – where it is revealed as being as ugly and despicable as it is undeniable.
I have never understood how "proud" Zionists could bear to accept so much money from tax paying goyim in the USA and not have their noble sense of self-sufficiency and independence suffer in the process. I mean, how really brave and separate are they if they are taking hand outs and charity from the goyim to this extent? Maybe it's high time the good and virtuous people of Israel return all that money and stand on their own two feet like the really independent country they claim to be. Because, otherwise, the whole thing starts to look like a parasitical charade – doesn't it?
Hardcore Fenton is attempting to gin up the background propaganda for the "Judeo-Christian" clash of civilizations with "the Islamofascists."
Hardcore Fenton ignores that Zionism and the West are inimical and incompatible, and that Zionists don't believe in the separation of synagogue and state any more than the Muslims believe in separation of mosque and state. He pursues his agenda by ignoring examples of the former and highlighting examples of the latter.
Hardcore Fenton, if you feel so strongly about fighting for Zionism and its Judeo-cratic, Synagogue + State, caste-system ideology, move to Israel and take up arms yourself. But don't try to shyster Americans into doing your fighting for you. Have you no shame?
"How do you change hearts and minds, by shelling them?"
You should ask that first of the Israeli government. And I'm not referring to the recent Gaza violence here. I'm referring to Israel's 60+ years of violent ethnic cleansing, land expropriation, house demolitions, belligerent occupation, "targetted" assassinations, administrative detention(imprisonment without formal charge or right to trial), internal checkpoints, harassment, wanton shelling of civilian areas, economic sanction and blockade, as well as planned economic deconstruction before that, all of which preceded by decades any rockets or suicide bombers. Did Israel really think they were fighting for "hearts and minds"? And if they weren't, why should they demand that of others?
One of the central idiocies of Zionism is the idea that the only reason why Palestinians might think unkindly of the Israeli government, after all that decades-long abuse, is because they are all just raving anti-semites. Yes, in Zio-thought, they have no reason to be angry about the loss of their rights, their livelihoods or even their lives. "If we just hit them once more with a bigger hammer, I'm sure they will all come around to love us, after all. And if they don't then they deserve what they get." Total insanity.
Civil rights for blacks in the US came about because whites were willing to stand up and say discrimination on the basis of color was wrong. Yes, it took brave blacks to stand up first, but, without the consent of whites, nothing would have changed. In Israel, Jews, who are the group in power there, need to stand up and say that discrimination on the basis of ethnicity or religion is wrong. You can be a part of that if you want, Witty, or you can continue to be an apologist for inequality and injustice. Your choice, your responsibility. Help ICAHD and Taayush and Anarchists Against the Wall. Be a righteous Jew and stand for justice.
@Kevin S. – My secular Jewish attorney friend agrees with you wholeheartedly. He goes on to say that he feels that many Jews feel the need to jettison any solidarity with blacks now that they've made their forays into the halls of power.
@Fenton – Though there are many progressive aspects of Israeli society, their treatment of Palestinians mirrors the blinders that those of the antebellum South had towards blacks. The rules about marriage, and property ownership, and military service and travel restrictions (roads and blue license plates) are the type of ethnic catagorizing that other failed racist societies promoted.
As Dr. Dreyfuss says to "Bud" C. C. Baxter in Billy Wilder's "The Apartment,"
"Be a Mensch!"
@ Rowan
He's got a good point. Even as the Likud types here and in Israel and otherwise in diaspora, tear down what's left of goy elite power with a sense of duty to the public, they are simultaneously getting ready for the next ally to advance their purpose (Israel uber alles et forever)–and the potential ally targeted is China. Jews follow the money. Owning China's will also owns USA will since China is the creditor of Uncle Sam. This will be clockwork. All of history shows the same mechanism. Watch high finance. It's always the key. Rothschild no longer partners with the nobility of Hesse, but it's all the same. Track it all. WW3 next.
1. Israel grants refuge to Africans displaced by Islamic genocidal actions in Darfur – but the rest of the Islamic world does not. Israel was forced to do this and conceded it was a good PR OP. Check out how black jews are treated in Israel for the real story.
2. Israel permits people to practice any religion or no religion at all. Religion controls Israel in a severe way it does not in the USA, for example. The conflation of civil & political rights with religion in Israel is paramount. Read the Israeli news, not the USA's.
3. Israel supports womens' rights and its society does not promote "honor killings" or require, subject to punishment by the state, a "modest" form of dress for its women. True, is this a good reason to slowly exterminate the Palestinian people under the color of law, all the while crying out you made me do it?
4. Israel doesn't have "don't ask, don't tell". Its homosexuals serve openly in the Army and are suject to the death penalty (as in Iran) for being gay. I guess you mean NOT subject to the death penalty. Good for Israel. Does this mean the USA should support Israel at all costs, and always? The very evangelical zionist christians who support Israel First are dead set against Israel's military gay policy. I guess they overlook it due to their focus on the end times fiction….
5. Israel does not seek, as a policy matter, to kill Arabs or prevent the practice of Islam; Hamas seeks the murder of Jews, restricts the practice of religions other than Islam and supports murder of those converting from Islam to another religion. What happened in GAZA recently means there's no policy to kill Arabs? Could have fooled lots of observers. Does HAMAS seek the murder of jews? OR does the Likud jewish coalition seek to take over the GAZA strip & West Bank as given to them by God, as shown in the Likud Charter? How easy is it to convert to Judaism, as compared to say, converting to Christianity, and Islam? Which group makes it easy, which, hard?
Just asking.
Lance – Israeli Arabs have Israeli license plates; most Israelis do not want Gaza (which they don't have anymore) or most of the West Bank. But, they do want to be left alone and not subject to terrorism. The Palestinians have not abandoned violence yet – accordingly, no peace.
To Zainab above,
1. Ethiopians do not suffer government sponsored discrimination, nor do any of the ruling political parties discriminate against Ethiopian Jews. The refugees from Darfur are guests – those who were expelled snuck into the country. Please describe the treatment of the Darfur refugees in Egypt.
2. Israel is a Jewish state, no doubt. But non-Jews and atheists are not legally mandated second class citizens. Many chasidic Jews are non-Zionists – they only believe that the Messiah can establish a Jewish state. They are disliked by the Jews who have to defend them with their lives – but they are not second class. Why have a Jewish state? It is the only way to preserve Jewish civilization – Israel is set up as a refuge for Jews – it does not have the billion strong luxury that Islamic states presumably have – but the Islamic states make sure that Jews are kept down – that is why most Jews from Islamic states have moved to Israel.
3. Your answer regarding women is quite revealing (no pun intended). You say: "When I go out to do my errands I don't want to see half-naked people running around showing stuff that makes my stomach turn. You're just jealous of our society because our women respect themselves and won't submit to your wiles and become yet another of your many "sexual conquests". " I have no idea why a women in running clothes makes you think of sexual conquest. That's my point about feminist rights in Israel – women can go for a run without being thought of as whores.
4. On homosexual rights, you give a non-answer, but your response that half-naked women running around "makes my stomach turn" may mean that you need to be a beneficiary of Israel's progressive view towards gays. You say that "Homosexuality is blatantly forbidden in Judaism." It may be, but Israel is not a theocracy. Just like Christian England (with a state religion and a cross on its flag) and other Christian European states are not theocracies or like Turkey, with a crescent on its flag is not a theocracy. In any event, it is more liberal than Gaza or the West Bank.
5. The rest of your response – starting with "ZioPuke" is ad hominem, irrational and enraged. "ZioNuts" do not "control the machine". Wish we did. And somehow, Hamas, King Hussein, Presidents Assad, Mubarek and Ahmadinejad, and King Abdullah are what Israel wants, not what the guy on the Arab/Persian street wants. So vote Abdullah out if you don't like him. And I didn't say that ALL Muslims are terrorists – I said that Muslims are committing the bomb-belt suicide/murders – not true? Not true that the Palestinian version of Sesame Street had a martryed Mickey Mouse look-alike asking kids to be martyrs too? How about your state-sponsored references to Jews as "pigs and dogs"?
To Citizen:
You say "Jews follow the money". Niiiice. Nope, you're not the least bit racist.
And Hamas DOES seek the murder of Jews – and that is WHY the Likud is taking over – because the more left-wing doves have not been successful in stopping the murders and attacks. Still, the policy of the state of Israel (as opposed to the policy of Hamas) is not to kill people. Killing is a response, it is not a policy directive. It "fooled" a lot of observers because they were only observing the front pages of the New York Times and the Guardian during the Gaza War – they paid no attention to the attacks on Israel during the years that preceded it and seem to have forgotten that Israel gave back the Gaza Strip years ago and got rocket barrages as its reward. Israel is blamed for not opening the borders – yet Israel, not Egypt, supplies Gazans with power. Egypt has a border too. Let it be responsible – it doesn't seem to want the Hamasites any more than any other party does.
As far as conversions go, Judaism used to be easy to convert into – then, turncoats turned in Jews to the Romans and bloodbaths of Jews began. So it's hard to join the club unless you really show meaningful intent that you want to belong. It takes at least a year of living as a Jew and learning some of the laws. If you want to join Citizen – go ahead; just be committed. You can convert out in an instant – there is not a civil law against it, unlike in many Islamic counties. Sure, you can become a Christian or a Muslim in a few minutes – what exactly does that mean? There are a billion Muslims and more than a billion Christians – they make it easy to join the club; in fact, they go out and proselytize to coerce you to join the club. All the Jews in Mashad, Iran were forced to convert to Islam. Most of the Jews in Spain were forced to convert to Christianity. Violence, expulsion or death was the alternative. So, it's a bid harder to become a Jew – at least no one forces you to become one against your will.
Jews follow the money. Owning China's will also owns USA will since China is the creditor of Uncle Sam.
This shows an awareness on Israel's part of the marxian argument I was making, about the ultimate uselessness of 'fictitious' i.e. finance capital when divorced from practical control of physical production. By moving the global financial nerve centre from Wall Street to Beijing (and I am told this is possible), they could re-integrate the two.
With regard to whether it is 'anti-Semitic' to say that "Jews follow the money," have I got a story for you:
Anti-Semitism makes it to China?
Boaz Arad, Ynet, Feb 22 2009
Who’s to blame for the current global financial crisis? According to a bestselling book in China, which is leading the sales charts in the country, the answer is clear: The Jews. In the eyes of most Chinese, Jewish people are considered ’smart’, ‘rich’ and ‘good at making money’. Bookstores in China offer a variety of self-help books titled, How to make money like Jews, and The secret of Jews’ global success. Until recently, the notion that Jews and money were inseparable carried no anti-Semitic undertone in the country, but a relatively new book called Currency Wars threatens to change all that. The book’s author, Song Hongbing, claims that behind world-changing events like the battle of Waterloo, Adolf Hitler’s rise to power, President Kennedy’s assassination, and the deep recession in Asia during the 1990s stood an intricate conspiracy aimed at increasing Jews’ wealth and influence. Song, a Chinese computer engineer and history buff who resides in the US, writes that almost every defining historical moment has been instigated by Jewish bankers, and mainly the Rothschild family, which Song says dominates the global banking system, including the US Federal Reserve System.
Song’s book was published in China about a year and a half ago, and initially sold an insignificant number of copies. But in recent months the global crisis has turned the book into a hit. Estimates put sales of Currency Wars well over a million, not including hundreds of thousands of illegal copies downloaded off the internet. Responses among readers vary; online discussions about the book reveal that many are convinced this is the most important publication ever written, as it “exposes the truth behind global economy.” However, others claim that this is “nonsense” and say that Song, who has never studied economics, simply pieced together a theory made up of several delusional conspiracy theories published on the internet. Song’s publishers, a subsidiary of a state-owned publishing house, boast the fact that the book has been read by all leading financial executives in the country, as well as state leaders. Song himself has become a local celebrity in China, and is often invited to lecture at financial conventions and is interviewed on TV as a famous financial analyst.
"@Fenton – Though there are many progressive aspects of Israeli society, their treatment of Palestinians mirrors the blinders that those of the antebellum South had towards blacks. The rules about marriage, and property ownership, and military service and travel restrictions (roads and blue license plates) are the type of ethnic catagorizing that other failed racist societies promoted."
Most of those rules were enforced in the North as well. There was no war against blacks in the South, and there was no intent to expell them, either. Obvious wrongs aside, slaves were often treated well. Palsetinians usually aren't.
Also the South wasn't militarily aggressive, and wasn't a society based on warfare. And when war came, the main Confederate army was far more respectful towards civilians and civilian property than the Union troops were, and definitey moreso than Israeli troops are. I see no real comparison to Israel.
@Todd – I think the important difference was that you could be a free man in the North whereas, if my understanding is correct, the same status in the South was pretty hard to come by.
The comparison I was mainly going for was the incongruity of being basically decent people while at the same time (in the case of the South) owning other human beings, or (in the case of Israel), having a society of separate and/or unequal.
While it is true that the North also had unequal treatment, the extent it was codified was different, especially with the marked distinction of human beings as property.
I presume that all of the anti-Israeli posters to this site also believe that Catholics, for example, should have no political influence in our country. After all, why should the Vatican rule over us on what we can and cannot do domestically and internationally.
I also presume that you object strongly to groups like CAIR and any oil and gas lobbying group, because they unduly divert American resources to support discriminatory monarchies in the Arabian peninsula.
I am not sure what the Civil War has to do at all with the Israeli situation. The Union Army was much more destructive than the Israeli Army – so was the Soviet Army – so was the British Army – so were the Conquistadors – so were the Mongols – so were the Ottomans – so are the Jihadis.
If the West Bankers want a different colored license plate, they can join with Jordan and get one. They can stop violence and get their own state – but they can't, haven't and won't.
@Fenton – I do not accept that 'pro-justice' equals 'anti-Israel.' And as an ex-Catholic, I do not mind that they lobby for issues of justice as they see them (provided that secularists can dismiss any religious appeal they make – such as with homosexuality). Other lobbies can do what they do as long as it is above board (as opposed to bankers and drug companies actually writing their own legislation).
Members of the 'Israel Lobby' need to register as a foreign lobby. Why they've been able to skirt this provision for so long is part of the problem. And it needs to be made clear how the lobby rewards and punishes our politicians (undoubtedly with funds from our own foreign aid to them), thereby unduly influencing our political discourse, especially in regards to matters pertaining to the Israel/Palestine conflict.
I agree with you, LT.
More:
"I presume that all of the anti-Israeli posters to this site also believe that Catholics, for example, should have no political influence in our country. After all, why should the Vatican rule over us on what we can and cannot do domestically and internationally."
Hardcore Fentonberg, do you live in the USA? Kennedy proved Catholics are hard core Americans immune from Papacy mandates, which never have anything to do with American foreign policy anyway, except to suggest humanitarian principles–the only time their Church leaders (whom many don't even acknowledge as leaders). Catholics only entertain group political alliance significantly in the areas of
homosexuality and abortion. Not so, the Jews–American foreign policy towards Israel–a foreign state– is their very litmus test for political contributions and media input.
"I also presume that you object strongly to groups like CAIR and any oil and gas lobbying group, because they unduly divert American resources to support discriminatory monarchies in the Arabian peninsula."
The Arab governments like Egypt and Saudi Arabia are puppets of USA–they suck in terms of egalitarian governing. Nobody in the USA thinks otherwise, nor is it ever claimed otherwise by the MSM. The USA does not divert American resources to support their discriminatory monarchies because
(unlike Israel) they pay through the nose for anything we give the, with interest. And all know we'd give them nothing without their single resource, crude oil, which is the world's most important commodity.
Compare this to Israel–the question becomes, why on earth are we rubber-stamping this place and its policies? Why lose our reputation, blood, and sweat, for Israel?
"I am not sure what the Civil War has to do at all with the Israeli situation. The Union Army was much more destructive than the Israeli Army – so was the Soviet Army – so was the British Army – so were the Conquistadors – so were the Mongols – so were the Ottomans – so are the Jihadis."
You need to google "Jim Crow" & then check out Israel's system. Christian white gentiles killed their own brothers for two reasons: first, to preserve the Union versus defending invasion, second, equality of all humans versus inequality of all humans by birth. BTW, are you equating the helpless population of Mandate Palestine & thereafter with the might of the various military forces you mention? LOL
"If the West Bankers want a different colored license plate, they can join with Jordan and get one. They can stop violence and get their own state – but they can't, haven't and won't."
We know, you hope people will buy the new version of Transfer–send all the Pals to Jordan. That's like
transferring the Apaches to Florida. Pretty regressive aren't you?
There is no good reason to compare Israel to the South of any era. I honestly believe that Jews complain about slavery and segregation more than blacks do. Why is that? It's their ticket to power! Divide and conquer, triangulate, whatever you want to call it.
Blacks could be free in the South also, and many were. Some even owned slaves. Neither society saw an equal place for blacks, and many states and territories in the North had laws in place to keep blacks from migrating into the area, or from mixing with whites, so I find it hard to believe that anyone fought a war so that free blacks could move north to live and work. Northerners specifically wanted European immigrants to work in their factories and populate their cities–Booker T. Washington lost on this issue.
Jim Crow wasn't just an issue in the South, and there were "sundown towns" all over the North–even in areas where there were few blacks. Why was that? The developer of Levittown on Long Island even believed in segregation.
There was no magical dividing line between the regions. Many whites in the South had orgins in the North, and vice versa, and the groups surely had similar attitudes. Much of the South was settled far later than the Northeast, and slavery was an economic interest to each society.
http://www.slavenorth.com/
By the time the Civil War broke out, the South was developing industry to go along with the agriculture, and natural resources, which was an obvious threat to the North if secession happened. The view that everone in the South was married to Jefferson's rural vision doesn't ring true, which puts illegal efforts to keep the Union intact in a different light. Comparing Israel to the South of any time is just a way of taking heat off of Israel, and the role of American Jews in supporting Israel, and dividing Americans. The comparison is so inexact that it is meaningles.
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