Never heard of this book (found out about it on JSF). And here is an excerpt of American-born Mike Marqusee's memoir, If I Am Not for Myself: Journey of an Anti-Zionist Jew, published last year:
I'm not sure exactly when or how I began to doubt. But I remember what happened the first time I expressed that doubt. It was a few months after the '67 war. A special visitor came to our Sunday [Hebrew] school class. He was in his early 20s, with thick fair hair falling over his forehead, a snappy sports jacket and polished loafers. Some of the girls whispered that he was cute. He had an accent but it was nothing like our grandparents' accents. He looked and dressed like us but he had been a soldier in a war and that made him an alien being. Smiling, he perched himself casually on the front of the teacher's desk and told us about the remarkable achievements of the Israeli army. He told us that the Arabs had planned a sneak attack but had met with more than they bargained for. They were bad fighters, undisciplined soldiers. And they were better off now, under Israeli rule. "You have to understand these are ignorant people. They go to the toilet in the street."
Now something akin to this I had heard before. I had heard it from the white southerners I'd been taught to look down upon. I had heard it from people my parents and my teachers described as prejudiced and bigoted. So I raised my hand and when called upon I expressed my opinion, as I'd been taught to do. It seemed to me that what our visitor had said was, well, racist.
I felt the eyes of the teacher and the other kids turn on me. They were used to me spouting radical opinions but this time I had gone too far....
I can't remember how long it was after that that I decided to share this experience and my thoughts on it with my family. This was something I was usually encouraged to do. We were sitting around the dinner table - all seven of us. I launched into my story about the Israeli in Sunday school and how what he said was racist. I had been thinking about the matter and now added, for my family's benefit, a further opinion. It was wrong for one country to take over another, or part of another, by military force. If the US was wrong in Vietnam - and that was a given around our dinner table - then Israel was wrong in taking over all that Arab land....
For some time I remained unaware that my father was listening to me not with approval but with rising fury. When he barked, "Enough already!" the shift was disturbingly abrupt.... "I think you need to look at why you're saying what you're saying," he said, and then the softness vanished. "There's some Jewish self-hatred there."
I felt then - and still feel now, when I look back - deeply and frustratingly misunderstood. My motives had nothing to do with self-hatred or any feeling about being Jewish. Nor did they have anything to do with compassion for a people - the Palestinians - about whom I knew nothing. I was merely following, as best I could, and in typical 14-year-old fashion, what seemed to be the dictates of logic. If in following them, the results appeared to defy assumptions, then that just made them more curious and compelling. Judging people by their colour or religion was wrong. Racism - making a generalisation about a whole people, stereotyping a whole people - was wrong. Taking over other countries was wrong, even if they attacked you (it was years before I learned that it was Israel that had launched this war, justified at the time by Abba Eban, American liberal Jewry's favourite Israeli, as a "pre-emptive" strike). Among the shibboleths I was brought up on was the belief that "my country right or wrong" was wrong....
Some might by now have concluded that the roots of my anti-Zionism lie in oedipal trauma. For sure, this was a deeply distressing incident. Later, I looked back on it as my first political disagreement with my father. Later still, as one of a number of raw episodes in our relationship, most of which had nothing to do with politics. Now, looking again at the history behind this incident, I see more clearly why the opinions I was expressing would have infuriated nearly everyone in my father's milieu in those days. To me, they were a logical development from the agreed shared ground of democratic liberalism, but to liberals of my father's generation they were an insolent abrogation of that shared ground. Without in the least intending to, I had breached a taboo.
...Whenever Jews speak out against Israel, their motives, their representativeness, their authenticity as Jews are questioned. We are pathologised. For only a psychological aberration, a neurotic malaise, could account for our defection from Israel's cause, which is presumed to be our own cause.
Anti-Zionist Jews are not and do not claim to be any more authentic or representative than any other Jews, nor is their protest against Israel any more valid than a non-Jew's. But "If I am not for myself", then the Zionists will claim to be for me, will usurp my voice and my Jewishness. Since each Israeli atrocity is justified by the exigencies of Jewish survival, each calls forth a particular witness from anti-Zionist Jews, whose very existence contradicts the Zionist claim to speak for all Jews everywhere.
"My country; and my country is the great American Republic. My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." Origin: Carl Shurz, 1899
"Now something akin to this I had heard before. I had heard it from the white southerners I'd been taught to look down upon. I had heard it from people my parents and my teachers described as prejudiced and bigoted. So I raised my hand and when called upon I expressed my opinion, as I'd been taught to do. It seemed to me that what our visitor had said was, well, racist."
I've never had my credentials as a white Southerner called into question for questioning the treatment of blacks.
I think it is obvious that Palestinians live under far worse conditions than blacks ever lived under in the South, so the constant comparisons make no sense. The societies were even arranged differently. Jews seem to talk about slavery and segregation more than blacks do.
Okay, I do understand Marqusee's point, but I don't expect to see Jews bash other Jews the way they continue to bash white Southerners. Dividing or debasing Jews wouldn't be beneficial to Jews, and exaggeration and demagoguery wouldn't even be necessary in the case of Israel.
Make other themes the topic of your degree of "Jewishness".
Zionism is just one, important, but not the most important element of it.
Appreciation of the presence of God, appreciation of the elegance of the phenomenal world, appreciation of the possibility to do good in the world, and ability to restrain oneself from doing harm.
The question of Zionism, anti-Zionism is only relevant in the context of those larger questions.
The idea of gathering of the people is a relevant term in Judaism, that of a messianic time in which Jews come together to fulfill some sense of mission.
The neo-orthodox describe the establishment by force of the state of Israel as an unwitting invitation of the messianic age, and extend that logic to state that further force is relevant and appropriate for that effort.
What they ignore is that the use of force is exactly the opposite of what is described in Torah of what invokes "the rain in its time", which the fulfillment of the commandments: the unity of God/reality, the commitment to reject spiritual materialism, the commitment to reject seeking what one is not entitled to by consent of title.
Its good to criticize wrongs, to suggest rational alternatives, to seek peace (consent). Its Jewish to do so.
Bascially, Mike seems to say, If you are not for your self, you will allow others to speak (and implement do) in your name. Like Phil, Mike's not happy with that situation. He questions identity politics, still the rage for so many decades now, the ugly brother of the Civil Rights Movement. A pervasive example of
same is use of the word "cracker" or "trailer trash," so fun in professional comedy for so long now. I do agree with what Tod appears to me to suggest: that white gentiles seem to accept their own ethnic bashing more than jews, which I attribute to the traditional hebrew notion, don't air your dirty laundry in front of the goys. Can you imagine a homey prime TV comedy show with an obviously jewish character that is
at least as morally ambiguous as Archie Bunker? I'm not talking HBO. I'm sure they have such in Israel. Or do they?
Q & A with Mike Marqusee: link to monthlyreview.org
Todd, his parents may have been teaching him to look down on 1940-1950 Southerners. I was born and raised in Louisiana, and when I was 18 (1986) and in ROTC went with a civil rights march in Forsyth County, GA, where the National Guard separating us from the KKK counter-protesters were all armed and facing us, instead of the actual hostile screaming folks. They also looked incredibly unhappy to be there. The South has changed dramatically for the better since then. Of course there is still racism, but there is also a vibrant Southern culture that exists outside of it. Atlanta, where all my family is now and where I am living until I can find a job in my field closer to the snowy North I have grown to love, is truly the jewel of the South.
However, at the time Mr. Marqusee's parent were raising him, there was a lot to look down upon. I don't hold it against his parents for doing that, only for being hypocrites. They, apparently inadvertently, taught him to look down on behaviors rather than people.
O wow, another anecodotal Jew-turned-anti-Zionist.
I know a fellow here in Israel, immigrant from the former USSR, who's grandfather was a senior officer in the NKVD. Very anti-Zionist. The grandson I know is Orthodox/religious/pro-settler.
I know another fellow, immigrant from the US, former Communist and anti-Vietnam War activist. Very progressive. He is also now
Orthodox/religious/pro-settler.
I know another fellow, also an immigrant from the US, who was also an anti-Vietnam War activist, who was severly beaten by the Chicago Police at the 1968 Democratic Party convention. He is also a Orthodox/religious/pro-settler.
There is a whole settlement made up of American immigrants who are former hippies and progressives. They are also Orthodox/religious and pro-settler.
I can beat you anecdote for anecdote.
Did any of them write a book showing their thought processing over the trajectory of their live? The point is not a competition of anecdotes. Perhaps you might suggest how and why your anecdotal acquaintances
so transformed their principles as they aged? Thanks.
Feral children do not have a sense of compassion for others.
We are not born with morality. We are not born with a sense of empathy.
It's all socialized.
Why do we need to talk about these concepts as pertaining to political ideologies?
They transcend all that.
So who cares whether a progressive blah blah is now a fascist Zionist settler who advocates full ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and total colonization of what's left of Historic Palestine?
Things change. People change. We are fickle creatures.
On a side-note – I would love to see some examples of foreign policy in this country ever changing based on virtue rather than interests.
And any situation where there has been a collusion of the two needs to be put in the proper context and 'weighed'.
Colin, I agree that there needed to be change in the South, but I believe that it was approached and executed in a dishonest way. There were enough sundown towns in the North to realize that race was an issue for all Americans to aproach. Northern elites in the 1940s and 50s had just finsihed dabbling with eugenics. The divde between North and South was an easy issue to exploit for ambitious people, and still appears to be.
I'm actually from Atlanta, and vaguely remember the Forsyth march. The ironic thing is that area of the state was known for Union sympathies prior to the Civil War, and never had many blacks to discriminate against to begin with. I don't remember why the march took place, but Hosea Williams had stated that he sought to provoke violence during the Civil Rights movement as a means to relieve tension between the races. I think he was lying about the intentions, but I saw an interview where he claimed that MLK approved of his actions. The point is that any march in such a small town that featured Hosea Williams and Jesse Jackson was bound to cause trouble. What people tend to forget, or not know, is that the black leadership in Atlanta is pretty radical and vindictive in its own right, and run the city as a racial spoils system. Projecting that attitude into the rural areas will get about the same response as a Confederate Day parade would get in certain inner city neighborhoods.
My point is that much of the anger and self-righteousness over the Civil Rights movement is phoney, and often serves to promote groups and individuals socially. There is no comparison to Israel's treatment of Palestinians, or of Israel as a society, and that of the treatment of blacks in the South or Southern society in general. Israel shouldn't be an American issue, but since it is forced to be one, why not judge Israel by itself, and constantly parody and slander Jews in the media? If the people making the comparisons were serious, the treatment would be the same, wouldn't it? Wouldn't we then hear anti-Jewish slurs along with constant jokes and claims about the boorishness and unattractivesness of Jews along with the constant reminders of their general racism, bigotry, selfishness?
I understand your point about behaviors and peoples. But there is much more to look down upon with Israel today than there ever was with the South.
Bor Kochba, I totally agree with you! For some people, a settlement in Gaza might be, for them personally, a better alternative then an American jail or forced psychiatric commitment.
Are us American Jews fully cognizant of the debt we owe Israel's settlements? American jails and mental hospitals would be full of Jews if not for the settlements.
But your anecdotes have the ring of truth, Bar, baby (I hope we are on a first-name basis). Without treatment or intervention, those with criminal and violent experience tend to go deeper off into it.
So they started out as pawns in an illegal policy, the War on VietNam, and found they liked it. In fact, they saw a way to make a future out of it. Good for them.
As for me, I took a different tack then Mike. Since I lived far from my Mom (my Dad died pretty early) I was able to wait until she died, inherit my share, and devote my life to anti-Zionist causes, and building up the toughest, roughest, nudest, crudest and lewdest Jewish sport-bike posse in the Great NorthVast.
Apparently most activist Jews during the Civil Rights era didn't particularly object to American bigotry against blacks, but rather bigotry in general only because they were themselves discriminated against. Once that was put to an end (largely on the backs of African American numbers) and they moved into the Establishment in a big way and were in a position to enforce their own bigotries (anti-Christian, anti-Arab, anti-Muslim), they didn't hesitate for even a second.
Double standards and situational ethics pretty much define the modus operandi of organized Jewry in this country, perhaps from the beginning. And with a group like that, with such low principles and ethics, enjoying so much prominence in the centers of power and in the Establishment now, little wonder the country has gone down the tubes so quickly. How so? Well, in post-Christian America, it's monkey see, monkey do.
The goy have been reduced, and reduced themselves, to animals, which perhaps was always the intent. Which Israeli Jewish Zionist was it that said he wanted the Palestinians to come begging "on all fours"? Today, goy politicians in Washington get down on all fours for the Israel lobby like the dumb animals they are.
As usual, Bar Kochbilla, you got it all backwards. Can you give us one good reason why we should believe anything you say? You are pledged to deception, pledged to Hasbara.
"Apparently most activist Jews during the Civil Rights era didn't particularly object to American bigotry against blacks, but rather bigotry in general only because they were themselves discriminated against."
Ed
Gosh, Ed, you are stupid, and a bigot. Can you please quote any law at that time, in any state, which mandated Jewish segregation? Yes, Jews were subject, like everyone else in their time and place in America, to social prejudice, but that's not the same thing. But it's getting hard to write amidst the waves of stupidity and ignorance emanating from your comment. And what's that smell?
"Double standards and situational ethics pretty much define the modus operandi of organized Jewry in this country, perhaps from the beginning."
Substantiate? Names of organisations? Want to tell us about the double-dealing and its results?
Poor, poor Ed. Too stupid to grasp that being critical of Israel's actions, or even being anti-Zionist on principle, is not the same thing as anti-semitism. Now for whoms is it a life-long quest to conflate those things? Why, Zionists, of course!
Congratualtions, Ed, you are doing the hasbarists work for them, trying as hard as you can to conflate anti-Zionism, criticism of Israel, and anti-Semitism. Now, why on earth would you be doing that?
"There were enough sundown towns in the North to realize that race was an issue for all Americans to aproach"
Not the same thing at all. The South had legal slavery, which gave way to 150 years of legalised segregation, not an informal system of putting social prejudice to work in the interests of real-estate salesmen.
"Not the same thing at all. The South had legal slavery, which gave way to 150 years of legalised segregation, not an informal system of putting social prejudice to work in the interests of real-estate salesmen."
The North had legal slavery and segregation, and fortunes were made above the Mason-Dixon line by transporting and selling slaves, as well as building slave ships after the war. The slave trade did not happen in a vacuum in the South. Also, there were plenty of laws and customs outside of the South regulating what non-whites could and could not do. Just look at Levittown.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/11/nyregion/memories-of-segregation-in-levittown.html
I don't recall freedom rides in New Jersey, Detroit or Los Angeles. I don't hear much about the miscegenation laws that were in place outside of the South. My point isn't to defend the wrongs that took place in the South. I just don't see a reason to allow sleazy operators to demagogue the issue to justify Zionism or any other cause.
Todd, don't do this to me! When you bring up ante-bellum levitown, I am o'erwhelmed by a big rush nostalgia. Sitting in the backyard by the Weber, my faithful black retainers serving me mint juleps, the banjoes strumming soft and low. And then that bastard Sherman marched through and… well, it's just too horrible to recall, but as God is my witness, I will never go without a popcorn ceiling again!
Then you are all talk and hysteria, Mooser. There is nothing to discuss. Thank you.
Todd, Mooser is being humorous — you must a heard of that.
I would really, really recommend to you folks the comment section at JSF:
http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/
Levi 9909 knows how to handle a comment section when the subject is Zionism, and I can prove it; he banned me! So you can all comment in a Moose-free enviournment! Give it a try. The comments are relevant, interesting, and free from useless persiflage.
I might mention that most of our prominent zio-trolls are veterans of JSF, and were not offered the option of re-enlisting.
I would encourage Phil and Adam to adopt Mark Elf's methods.
"Make other themes the topic of your degree of "Jewishness"."
But leave my precious Zio-caine alone! It's the only thing which gets my dick hard anymore. More than anything understand this: I don'
t care what is actually going on in Israel, and what its likely results are, I don't give a shit about that. But for God's sake, what you say about Israel, that's what matters to me. Let's be frank, folks, the reality of Israel never did a damn thing for me, one way or the other, but Israel's publicity in the US, now that's life to me, meat and drink! So why do you talk bad about Israel, and bring in those awful facts? Don't you have any pity on an old man?
What are Palestinian lives, in comparison to an American Zionist Supporter's feelings? If anything happens to Israel, what will happen to my self-image? Nothing, but any kvetch in times of trouble, you know.
Sorry, Todd, in terms of the numbers involved and the harm done, Black Slavery dwarfs anything the Israelis have done, yet.
But please, don't anybody give me up for a defeatist. First of all, you have to take into consideration the much smaller scope the Israelis have, and the smaller time-period, and the lack of an internation market for Palestinians as slaves.
But my faith in Israel is unbounded! Give them time, and they will certainly work their way into the foremost ranks of transgressors.
I appreciate your boosting them, Todd, but their ranking is not that high yet. God knows, Israel has the potential for big-time world-wide evil, but why should they leave the regional leagues, where they are always in the running, and go to the bigs-small frog, big pond, all that.
And I hope I am not exaggerating the evils of Black slavery in America. It wasn't so bad. First, an interesting and pleasurable middle passage, like a cruise, you know? Then, friendly and charming owners and overseers, good accomodations, light but invigorating garden work. Can't see what they objected too.
And damn those outside agitators! Those northern college eggheads, comin' down here and messin with our "WAY OF LIFE" Communists, I tell ya!
And I'm sure Ed can tell you the rest!
Anyway, all of this begs one question, and I intend to put a quarter in the cup and take that pencil, now: Are Jews white? ARE JEWS "WHITE"?
Now, I'm not a good judge of this, I admit it. From the instant I was old enough to understand these things, I decided I was, as a Jew, not white. My accultuaration as an American Jew made it possible to pass for white, and better safe than sorry.
But how do you guys feel about it? Are Jews white?
I can beat you anecdote for anecdote.
Good response, citzen, mine would have been similar. It's obvious you can pick out tales supporting your story. The question would be exactly the motivational forces beneath the decisions. What are the larger patterns. …
Gosh, Ed, you are stupid, and a bigot. Can you please quote any law at that time, in any state, which mandated Jewish segregation? Yes, Jews were subject, like everyone else in their time and place in America, to social prejudice, but that's not the same thing. But it's getting hard to write amidst the waves of stupidity and ignorance emanating from your comment. And what's that smell?
Mooser, it doesn't necessarily need to be segregation, and admittedly I am at the moment a bit divided of looking closer into the roots and oppositions here in Europe, especially Russia and Germany. But I distinctly remember from my work on a couple of American artists that there must have been restrictions for Jewish American students, something like quotas. It surfaced e.g. in the life of Mark Rothko.
Mooser, the usual slant is to give the South credit for the whole slave trade, which is exactly why I state that the Israeli treatment of Palsetinians is far worse than anything that blacks ever faced in the South. Let's give northern merchants some credit for the middle passage and the breaking of families and seasoning of slaves, as well as holding slaves and profiting of their sale. The point is that there is enough blame to go around. And if one wishes to compare the support of Israel's actions to the support in the South for segregation, I still say that segregation was the lesser of the two evils by far.
The exact number of African slaves brought to the English colonies varies wildly, but I don't think it dwarfs the number of people affected by the Israelis. I also don't think the murderous intentions of the Israelis is better than the greed and racism exhibited by the slave traders. At the very least the slavers wanted the slaves to survive.
And yes, there is something very hypocritical about the way that Jews use their civil right involvement, which is really the intent of my posts.
"Todd, Mooser is being humorous — you must a heard of that."
Do you think I lash myself with one hand and type with the other, Rowan?
@Mooser
Some Jews are white, some are black, some asian or pacific islander.
If you mean the people typically considered "ethnic" Jews, the Sephardic Jews probably wouldn't be considered white. In America, the Ashkenazim were counted as non-white when it was OK to discriminate against minorities and then as white when racial quotas and similar racial spoils systems came in. Which as it turned out was very handy for the Jews since a quota system that lumped Jews in with whites meant that we weren't limited to 2% of the slots in universities.
Mooser,
Can we get "Banned by JSF" t-shirts or something? "86'ed by Levi 9909?" "In Blood and Fire, Judea fell, in Blood and Fire Shall Dagenham rise?"
What happened? Was the schtick finally too much for him, or did you disagree on fundamentals? And why would a SWuPpie site like that NOT want a West Coast Yiddish Diasporist?
And damn those outside agitators! Those northern college eggheads, comin' down here and messin with our "WAY OF LIFE" Communists, I tell ya!
And I'm sure Ed can tell you the rest!
I am with you on that. Wonderful cries of a tortured soul.
The point is the meta tale Ed supports. And I am very interested in its historical development.
While I don't like Todd's playing down of Black Slavery, I think the central point of his tale is correct. As I am with you, it feels, that it is a little more subtle today.
You say Israel has done nothing for you. Did you notice that Richard suggested that the Jewish success in America might be a result of Israel's existence? I found this statement very peculiar and somehow contradicting his larger ethical/religious frames.
LeAnder, I don't think I have downplayed the African slave trade at all. I don't think that the usual context of slavery or civil rights in the U.S. that unloads everything at the door of southerners is even close to being honest. The African slave trade was massive, and plantation owners in the southern states and colonies were just the tip of the iceberg, and probably profited far less than the merchants who sold and transported the slaves. As poorly treated as blacks were during and after slavery, they weren't facing miliary actions, let alone a modern military.
Slavery in the southern U.S. accounted for a small portion of the international trade, and the northern merchants, financiers and shipbuilders had a far bigger hand in the global trade than did the typcal plantation owner in the South. Most Southerners didn't own slaves, and many were just a step above slaves, themselves. Many whites in the South were sharecroppers or living in mill housing using mill-issued money as late as the 1950s. These people were not the power behind inequality in the nation any more than Christians are the power behind the Israel lobby.
And the claims that communist or socialist social-engineers and agitators did come South and interfere are true. There was a concerted effort by leftists to establish communal societies in the region in the early 1900s. I know of the remains of four such societies within driving distance, myself. None are still in existence, but the graveyards and some of the building still remail. During the 1930s Alger Hiss was even in my area agitating for the federal takeover and redistribution of private land. He was soon shipped out of the AAA by Roosevelt, but he still tried.
I don't think I've downplayed anything.
Todd you haven't downplayed slavery at all. LeaNder just loves that hairshirt, it gives him a sense of moral superiority. P.S. Fritz, don't over due the humility.
Moose might be interested in learning more about Jewish participation in and ownership of slavery/slaves. Prof. Tony Martin would be a starting point. Another book written by John Bailey,an Australian, The Lost German Slave Girl would also shed some light on aspects of 'The Old South' the victim pushers would rather not talk about.
Zionists and Leftists both make up facts and history as they go along, and also have no ethical problem whatsoever lying through their teeth. It's all justified, you see, because "the man" has always kept them down. This mentality appears to have something to do with their common arrested development, and their wholesale embrace of the victim identity, under which anything, even murder, is justified
But it's amusing to see Leftists outraged about Zionism's relatively minor murder rates today even as they seek to bury the memory of the millions done in by their own ideology the day before yesterday.
At least I'm consistent and don't pick and choose who gets authentic victim acknowledgement according to liberal political calculus. The day before yesterday, left-liberals refused to acknowledge the millions of victims of Communism because they were politically inconvenient; yesterday, they refused to acknowledge the victims of Zionism because THEY were politically inconvenient. Today, they are starting to acknowledge Palestinian victims. Tomorrow, who knows.
As I mentioned above: Double standards and situational ethics pretty much define the modus operandi of organized Jewry in this country, perhaps from the beginning. I should have added, those characteristics define the modus operandi of the Left as well. It’s no coincidence that so many staunch (and murderous) Leftists have historically been Jewish. Leftists and Jewish ideologues appear to have adopted each others’ moral system.
Is Zionism right-wing or left-wing? It is right-wing in the sense that it is ethnic fundamentalist nationalist, and institutionally racist, but it is left-wing in the sense that it is anti-religous in the same way that Communism was, which is to say it has a problem with all religions except Judaism: Christians were targeted for murder in the Soviet Union due to their religion, but Jews were not; Churches were razed by the State in the Soviet Union, but synagogues were not.
And it is also left-wing in the sense that it legitimizes its institutional discrimination by appealing to history: Jews were victimized in Russia before Communism, therefore they should be favored today, said the early Soviets; Jews were victimized in Europe prior to Zionism, therefore they should be favored in Israel today say contemporary Statist commissars in the West, including American ones.
Israel demonstrates where this kind of policy-making leads, whether it is "affirmative action" for Jews in the Levant, or affirmative action for some other victim group elsewhere today: It leads to primitive tribalism. Two wrongs don’t make a right, and an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.
@Mooser: "Poor, poor Ed. Too stupid to grasp that being critical of Israel's actions, or even being anti-Zionist on principle, is not the same thing as anti-semitism."
Mooser, it is you who are conflating. I'm critical of organized Jewry, not racist against individual Jews. And what is Zionism, but the ultimate form of organized Jewry?
Are Jews who criticize organized Christianity racists? Are Leftists who do the same? By your standards, they must be.
@ Mooser: "And I hope I am not exaggerating the evils of Black slavery in America. It wasn't so bad…And damn those outside agitators! Those northern college eggheads, comin' down here and messin with our "WAY OF LIFE" Communists, I tell ya!"
–
Mooser would apparently have the world believe “northern college eggheads” were the ones who put an end to slavery. Wow, those Freedom Riders accomplished more than I ever imagined. I suppose they taught Lincoln everything he knew. Did their bus rides take place before or after Sherman’s march?
Hey, maybe Mooser was even on one of those buses! Yeah, that was before he made his way back north to attend Woodstock. Wow, you Jewish hipsters are so damn…hip!
LeaNder, I don't think I have downplayed the African slave trade at all. I don't think that the usual context of slavery or civil rights in the U.S. that unloads everything at the door of southerners is even close to being honest.
Lately I have often read complains about American stereotypes concerning the South. Thus I believe there must be reason for such a complain. … I think Pat Lang once mentioned something similar, and admittedly I respect him.
But I don't consider any stereotype better than another. The masses always function well. And considering the ladies voice, I don't care either what brush tries to tarnish me … I couldn't bother less.
You are absolutely correct to look at the history of slavery–may I say?–in a systemic way. I agree one usually only looks at tips of larger icebergs.
The story surely is much more complex. ….
But the big question remains, how do the ones that profit from the diverse ends in every society over the decades manage that the vast majority watching what is going on, are made to accept these systems? It somehow feels it's always the same mechanism that e.g. makes the German female bureaucrat, I watched not long ago, humiliate a elder Turkish German couple. … Very much people in the most unimportant job, function like little cogs in a machinery, and while surely following the orders from above, also often seem to develop sadistic tendencies enjoying their however limited power. And I see the Nazis only as a peak in this respect.
Which leads to another human stain: In the end it's all about winners and losers. The winners dictate history and often parade in the dress of utter guiltlessness that even seems "inheritable", as some peculiar pride of having been on the right side of history. And yes, history is always written by the winners. Given that the single human has not much influence were he finds himself, I am amazed at the sight of all collective pride. It's so utterly vain one almost wishes there was some kind of reparations that have to be paid in another life. Or the prouder these people are for something they did not do anything for, that they are born into the most despised group in another world. Or as some kind of animals that are hunted to extinction, so see what it looks like to be among the losers. Ideas that exist in Indian religions – Karma.
Personally I would like to reborn into some kind of spiritual nowhere, why not as an angle with the power to help losers. Or keep brothers from ending at crosses whatever there skin or ethnicity.
I am gone for a while. So everybody that enjoys a little ridicule, must know it won't reach me eyes anymore. I will keep my attention to the upper layers of this blog for a couple of weeks. I wish you all well.
@ LeaNder responding to Mooser responding to Ed: I understand, Mooser, your attack on what Ed said, but I think he meant going back a bit farther in US history, before the WW2, when Jewish Americans were subjected to quotas, "gentleman's agreements," etc. In that sense, Ed has an argument.
@ Mooser
As someone suggested above as to your question, "Am I white?" And as I know you know, Jews
are not a race per se, though there is a significant ethnic DNA component. There is a significant group, a younger generational take among the blogs that deal with social injustice as an everyday affair that conflate being white with simply being the beneficiary of "white privilege." This theory usually comes up when somebody comments that nobody in their family ever was involved with slaves, and that they never were bigoted, and this in the context of affirmative action culture. Basically, the literally poor white says, "WTF, if anything I've been discriminated against!" And the rejoinder comes that nevertheless, he or she has somehow benefited from
past white institutionalized privilege–it gets murk if the exchange includes detailed factual
experiences. My point is merely that, according to this take, you are "white" if you come from a
family that somehow was able to take advantage of opportunities not available to physically
obvious non-whites wherever, whenever.
is that
There is an analogue in terms of feminism, and it gets hairer and hairer as "the Men's Club" weakens yet simultaneously some think still that all male's are given more opportunities, etc.
@ LeaNder's German female bureaucrat. I've met the type all my life. They are there, regardless of race, creed, ethnicity, or religion. The more ideologically-controlled the government is, the more of them
exist, and get to exercise their tiny share of cultural-political bullydom. It's like being in Grade School/High School forever.