My group is leaving Gaza over the next couple of days. A few of us don’t want to leave. We feel connected to the place, and the people have been universally welcoming. They all say the same thing. They want to be part of the world, their cause has been cast away by the world.
A number of us feel guilty that we half-believed the propaganda about Gaza. I did myself. I thought it was a fearful place and I was taking my life in my hands. One friend is angry at herself for worrying about her safety constantly before she left. Now it feels egotistical next to these people's safety. John Ging of the U.N. said that if the people were really indoctrinating their children with hatred in the schools, then how come we have been safe everywhere we go?
We had a meeting of the group tonight to go over tomorrow's schedule, and someone asked for people to reflect and Susan Johnson, whose picture is below, spoke about how wrenching it was to meet so many intelligent people whose largest desire is to live a normal life.
“I’ve done work in prison,” she said. “This is worse than being in prison. How people can be so cruel to other people– I don’t understand, I just don’t understand it. I can understand how people in the United States don’t know it’s as bad as it is. That's because of the press, and we’re probably at this point the best hope these people have for getting the word out. I look on that as a really big responsibility. I don’t want to let them down. I’m not ready to leave.”
Later I asked Susan why Gaza is worse than the prison she'd worked in, Graterford, in Pennsylvania. She said that the prisoners get along with the guards generally; they all understand the system and the routine and the rules. Here, she said, the guards are miles away. They drop leaflets or white phosphorus. She went on, When a bird's in a cage, it doesn't try to fly out; it knows it's in a cage and accepts the fact. But these people are in a cage and they can't fully believe it. They're like birds with their wings cropped who are walking around on the ground and keep flapping on to a branch trying to fly.
Susan and I were both disturbed by the meeting we'd had in the afternoon with a bunch of students who can't leave to go to schools that have given them scholarships overseas. They're incredibly appealing kids; I'm going to be putting up some videos of them in days to come and telling their stories. Seven of them came to our hotel just to talk to us. None of them was angry at us; they've suffered a lot though, and now and then the stark frustration and fear played on their faces. Hazem Abukaresh, below, told me how important it is to get his Ph.D. in computer science before he's 30. He's 24, and has been stopped at the border four times now–just trying to get out, to Europe, China, Malaysia, and Jordan, where schools were expecting him.
Susan said:
"Those kids just want to meet people, that's all. They want to go places. And they can't go anywhere. They graduate from college and then they can't go anywhere."
Susan asked me for my reflections. I told her I felt bad about my own prejudice against these people ahead of time, and for being so concerned with my own Jewishness, the Jewish future, and the
Jewish image in the world. Here that concern feels stupidly selfish. The
people of Gaza are persecuted. Full stop.
For me to agonize about my
Jewishness when I know about the degree of persecution is actually
indulgent and a dodge. Yes this place touches on Jewishness and the
important issue of how to reimagine Jewishness, to recover it from this
horror, but as my roommate Sammer, an Arab-American, points out, the work ahead of us is political now, trying to move American minds, American policies. A big part
of that is in the Jewish community, of course; and I can't wait to get
home and begin to tell people what I saw here, the cruelties
perpetrated in the name of the Jewish people; and let Hazem tell his story for himself.
That's down the road. I have a couple of days left. I'm going to spend that time listening to Gazans…
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"John Ging of the U.N. said that if the people were really indoctrinating their children with hatred in the schools, then how come we have been safe everywhere we go?"
They treat stooges on a guided tour differently than they do others. Like it or not you have been duped into believing a version history that is divorced from reality. The shameless farce you perpetuate is little more than an insidious acceptable form of racism. Please do us all a favor and stay, in fact, show us how brainwashed you really are and become a martyr.
I'm going to spend that time listening to Gazans… You should. You can write about it all, when you are back. Take in as much as you can. I realized I was egoistic, when I noticed my impatience for reports from Gaza. Obviously you should be out and meet people, listen to them and their stories. …
This is the best piece I read about Palestine for years. Thank you very much.
The Palestinian advocacy groups should organize trips for the goyim to go see what life is like for Palestinians and Israeli Arabs. That's the true Israel, not the Jewish part which is irrelevant, but how the Jewish Israelis treat the non-Jews.
RE: "…a bunch of students who can't leave to go to schools that have given them scholarships overseas…" FROM J STREET: Following Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's rejection of a full settlement freeze, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said yesterday that President Obama "wants to see a stop to settlements – not some settlements, not outposts, not natural-growth exceptions." This is exactly the sort of leadership we need from the President and Secretary of State if we are going to achieve a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict – the only way to truly secure Israel's future as a Jewish, democratic homeland. You can bet the Obama Administration is already hearing from hawkish voices on Israel – urging him to make exceptions, allow for more settlement growth, and to go slow. No way – a freeze means a freeze. We've got to make sure the President knows pro-Israel, pro-peace Americans support his strong line on settlements, for both Israel's and America's sake and security. Please send the President a message telling him you support his "Freeze means Freeze" approach to Israeli settlements. * TO SEND MESSAGE - http://salsa.wiredforchange.com/o/2747/t/3251/pet...
Did you meet with Hamas? Did they change their charter while you were there? Did you ask about Cpl. Schalit?
It is a good question, whether you met with anyone from Hamas? Did you get to ask them difficult questions?
What's the point of trying to re-imagine "Jewishness" in this day and age when it has come to mean — at least apart from those who are profoundly religious believers — racist tribalism and fidelity to the Zionist colonialist project? Just resign. The alternative is endless moral trimming a la Witty to justify membership in the Chosen People, which is no more than an expression of naked racial supremacy behind crocodile tears.
People should go by the hundreds, make videos, take pictures, write.
and PS — You are not responsible for Gaza "as a Jew" unles that is the identity you embrace. On the other hand, we are all responsible as Americans for supplying the planes, the bombs, the funds — and the political cover — for Israel's crimes.
Great post. "I told her I felt bad about my own prejudice against these people ahead of time, and for being so concerned with my own Jewishness, the Jewish future, and the Jewish image in the world. Here that concern feels stupidly selfish. The people of Gaza are persecuted. Full stop. " It's called universalism. Welcome to the world. It is okay to have a family and a tribe and to prefer their company and be especially concerned about their welfare, but there are lines beyond which everyone must treat others equally. That great movie, Almost Famous, was on the other night. The old journalist advised his young protege, on how to write up his experiences traveling with rock band Stillwater, who had become a sort of family: "be honest, and be merciless." He could have been talking to you, Phil.
i take it you are not jewish.
Phil needs to see himself as a humanist and not a Jew. Most Jews today in the American diaspora see themselves as Zionists. That's how they define themselves. And you cannot be a humanist and advocate for human rights while being a Zionist. You can't even be an honest decent person (see: Richard Witty).
I would 've signed if it were not for the two state crap.It should be,evacuate,leave,get out ,get the f… out of the westbank and Gaza.It 's the law you know.
Thanks for your postings Strahl.I may carry the israeli citizinship,and hold onto it,Iam still a PALESTINIAN.
Another excellent report… the truest resistance of Palestinians is that of living lives of normality to the greatest extent possible. Rather than ask "why do Palestinians shoot missiles" one needs to ask "why do they want to study computer science", "why do they want to travel and meet people and talk about music and cinema?" The fact is that an entire world of daily, mundane non-violence is obscured against the spectacle of a few ramshackle projectiles and the bright lights and burnt flesh of Israeli white phosphorous bombs. To walk in Gaza, Hebron, Ramallah, Jaffa and Lydd is to see people resisting just by living, dreaming, and raising families.
When Phil "reports" from Gaza is anyone else reminded of Walter Duranty? Ultimately, we go into these things with our minds made up.
Like ,are you defending your family and land?GOOD.Have you done your duty to day to liberate Gaza from the zionazies?GOOD.Hey witt man,If the USA get invaded,what would you do?Throw raisens at the invaders I guess.
Most Palestinians who are citizens of Israel dislike being called "Israeli Arabs". The term was coined by Zionists in an effort to deny the Palestinian identity of Israel's Palestinian citizens, and to pretend that they are equal to Jewish citizens of The Jewish State.
This idea that one's identity can simply be changed by an act of will is very characteristically American. It's closely related to the "American Dream" of being able to be anything you want to be, but I have my doubts that most people outside the US would agree that it's quite as simple as you suggest.
Incredible piece, it brought me to tears. Thank you Phil.
Speak for yourself. My views of Israel and the Palestinians have changed drastically since I actually began paying attention to what is happening there and learning more about the history behind it. From other pieces Phil has written, I think much the same is true of him, with the added difficulty that he, as a Jew, got a much stronger dose of pro-Israel indoctrination than I did.
Superb work, Phil. Thanks. off-topic posts: Unfortunately, we see yet again evidence of a dual-tier legal system. U.S. man evades jail time in 'mysterious' case of spying for Israel http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/05/29/arms-body-brea... This is a fantastic development, and proof that adults are finally back in charge. Arms body breaks 12 years of deadlock on nukes http://wire.antiwar.com/2009/05/29/arms-body-brea...
I was reflexively pro-Israel until I learned of the 'high-fivers'. There's nothing like having some dirtbags laughing at and cheering on the killing of one's countrymen to wake one up to reality. None of the hijackers were Palestinian. Israelis deserve protection from genocide, but that's it until they can learn to civilize themselves. The High-Fivers http://antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=10528
Jaffr, there is no reason at all why Phil can't separate his religion from his politics. And no reason why he has to expect a State for his religion. As if Zionism, as expressed by the Jewish State, is part of the Jewish religion. There is no reason why Phil can't do it, a great proportion of Jews do now and always have. I believe that the exigencies of a settler-colonial project always produce the same result. This one has attached its claws to Judaism's troubled back. But those projects always have a religious or nationalistic "hook" Judaism can provide a person with a lot, things much more important then, and things only corrupted by providing Jews with a Jewish State.
regarding the palestinians living in israel with israeli citizenship: correct me if i'm wrong. palestinians only began referring to themselves as palestinians in 1965 as in the p.l.o. certainly in 1948 they did not refer to themselves as palestinians, as their highest political body was known as the arab higher committee. so maybe the term Israeli Arabs was coined without any pretense involved. I'm all for calling someone what they wish to be called, but historical accuracy is also a value.
I found that passage very moving. I guess I was something I was waiting for, waiting to hear. Yup, like Wild Thing, you moooved me!
Richard, they were all from Hamas! Ah, Richard, so there he goes! Completely taken in, arumgeflickt!
You are wrong. I am therefore correcting you at your request.
It would be wonderful if American Jews took the lead in helping to change the situation. It doesn't have to them who do it. It may not be them who do it. I'm just saying it would be wonderful if it was American Jews who took a lead in it. But as Susan Johnson demonstartes, no arcane knowledge of the Jewish religion is needed to see what is happening in Gaza. If nothing else, the fact is if American Jews don' concern themselves with this, we may not like who will.
Strahl, he's seeing, already! I'm sure he's seen plenty.
The point is, today Zionism has become the religion of secular people of Jewish descent. I have nothing against Jewishness as a religion (or at least no more than other belief systems, as long as they leave me alone) — but what is the point of secular leftists whose grandparents happen to have been born in a Russian stetl adopting "Jewishness" as their personal identity? If it's not Israel, is it just the matzo balls? Hell, I can like souvlaki without thinking I have to be Greek. I can even eat a knish., now and then. And there's more — tribalism (i.e. special affiliation and sympathy with a highly successful and powerful in-group) is essentially a form of racial supremacism in my book. What's wrong with just being human — or even "Palestinian" in principle — while acknowledging the particular historical trajectory of one's family?
They sure didn't consider themselves "Israeli Arabs", ever. Their "Arabness" was always a big part of their identity, but they also had a strong relationship with the land locally. The first modern Arab newspaper in the territory that became the British Mandate was founded by two Greek Orthodox brothers in Yaffa in 1911. It was called Al-Filastin.
You are aware of the few hundred real terror incidents on Israeli civilians? Please don't minimize the importance or the significance of that. There are many things that we wish would never have happened. I personally know the condition of Jewish European refugees following WW2, and the reality that NO state allowed sufficient immigration to absorb them, except the renegades in the Haganah, and then later Israel. I wish that their liberation could have been accomplished without harms to Palestinians, and I wish for reconciliation. But, I don't wish for vengeance on even Hamas fanatics that adopted terror as means of dissent. I wish for them to change.
we are like trees that walk around head in the clouds feet on the ground god set me down in a little town after whirling me round and round he said to me son as if i was the one get lost so you can get found
I was different than that. I was reflexively critical of Israel until I discovered that the left ignored the political context and gullibly digested interpretations of events as solely oppression, that were in fact conflict. I read widely, and observed a far more suppressive thought-police attitude and practise among the left than I had experienced among my family and more conventional Jewish sources. Phil is a newby to this. Its good that he's seeing with his own eyes. He has the opportunity to see the effects of recent history. Of course, he didn't apparently schedule any visit to Sderot. So, sadly, unless that reality is part of what he investigates, he will have conducted another progressive "tour". It isn't all that different than what is criticized when he objects to Birthright tours. Seeing for yourself is a higher bar. Amira Hass for example, IS a great contributor to the knowledge that we have. But, her contribution is limited. More reading, more assessment is necessary to develop a realistic assessment of the events themselves, the significance of those events, and the prospects for future effort towards an actual positive goal. It is good that Phil acknowledged his prejudice, even ones that I'm sure surprised you remained in his consciousness, even after seeing and reading for a decade.
The first step is to identify a goal, not just an emotion and means. That allows practical coalition, coalition that actually gets something done. The negatively stated coalition of the angry, yeilds bed-fellows that have no intention whatsoever of either assisting present Palestinians (and refugees), nor of realizing any security for Jews and Israelis. "Keep your eye on the prize".
You are wrong.and a lier at that.WE were always Palestinian arabs.The zionazi usurping entity's imposed marshal,military rule untill the mid 1960 made sure that an arab has no rigths ,especially when he calls himself PALESTINIAN.
The story line is one that is known all too well along with "never again" to "always and forever" Sinfully against the very very fiber of what the occupiers preace but never follwed from day one back after the british planed ( I say planned ) withdrawl, even then the eyes of the world were told one thing and yet received another…the public does not seem to really investigate the bad things in which the taxes go for or that it is the very same democracy, idiolgy,imperialist control or something. Just as the elderly nazi is brought to justice here justice has disapeared..all together makes you feel that , We were all lied to along and diddent even know such a beautiful place and people could be taken for granted and then made to look as shooting rockets and desperite suicidal shellshocked people would dare just give up. Where is humanity .
Phil, Issues around your Jewishness ARE important objectively, and should be important to you personally. There are four ways that I see that you can have any influence on what occurs there: 1. Affecting American foreign policy to be mutually kind. You've written at length about that effort, and is clearly being at least partially realized in the much stronger language of the Obama administration towards cessation of settlement construction (including previously condemned Hillary Clinton, and Rahm Emanuel). 2. Affecting the nature of Jewish American opinion, which then has an effect on Israeli policy. 3. Affecting the nature of dissenters opinion and approach. 4. Affecting the nature of Palestinian, Arab and international public opinion and approach. The approach of attempting to affect Israel by outside pressure (punitive or overbearing American policy, approach of dissent, and world public opinion and policy) contains coercion in the same manner that the attempt by Israel to isolate Gaza was/is coercive, and the attempt to isolate Iran was/is coercive. That might be the most effective and right method, but if it is undesirable for the US relative to Hamas or Iran, it SHOULD be undesirable to you when directed at Israel. The importance of getting fully informed humanely is that you could then persuade the American Jewish and indirectly Israeli public opinion. The difference between persuasion and coercion is stark, and affects the future enormously. In contrast to the undisciplined application of "the purpose of civil disobedience is to evoke a response" (intifada rock-throwing as somehow "non-violent", or shelling of civilian towns as similar), a disciplined one leaves the former enemy deeply respecting the character of the dissenters. While more "correct" black activists called Martin Luther King a "Tom", his leadership resulted in the deep respect of MASSES of white sympathizers, and the mass SUPPORT for integration in law and later more intimately. In contrast, H Rap Brown or Stokely Carmichael permanently scared far more than they accomplished. You haven't found the way to thread that needle yet. It is possible. Its not that small a whole. I don't know why you've chosen language that resembles propaganda in many respects, but if you are actually concerned about change in objective conditions, then a more persuasive approach would suit you better. For example, although the Walt/Mearsheimer book upset a great many pro-Zionists, Walt now presents respectable proposal and language as a repeated norm. You have staked out a place to the left of his. More emotional, but not necessarily more accurate. I've liked your reporting of your experiences from Gaza. I'm glad that you acknowledged that the Gazans are not starving in particular. I expect that when you go to Sderot and see with your own eyes, the Farsi on a reported majority of rocket components, and presence of bomb shelters in every home, that that will also have an emotional and factual impact. I hope that you have the courage to not conform to what your audience expects, that you have your own voice and thinking.
Did Ms. Johnson consider that the "prisoners" fire rockets at the "guards" children?
Thank you for this work you are doing, Phil. I think it will make a very big difference.
Jewish resistance fighters killed civilians in Nazi held areas during WWII, also. Does that mean they deserved what the Nazis were doing to them?
It's not coercive if the US government puts conditions on the aid it gives to Israel. The US government (the US taxpayers) are under no obligation to give billions and billions of dollars to Israel for any reason. And we are especially not under any obligation to give Israel billions of dollars for Israel to use to commit war crimes.
Right, it's a Holy Coast! And no one knows! Lean out the window and shout it! What are you; an anti-semite?
yonahred wrote: "regarding the palestinians living in israel with israeli citizenship: correct me if i'm wrong. palestinians only began referring to themselves as palestinians in 1965 as in the p.l.o. certainly in 1948 they did not refer to themselves as palestinians " I have encountered this claim before. It seems to be a standard hasbara item. Here is what the Wiki says: “The first widespread use of ‘Palestinian’ as an eudonym to refer to the nationalist concept of a Palestinian people by the local Arab-speaking population of Palestine began prior to the outbreak of World War I,…”. The terms "Palestine' and "Palestinian" date from pre-Roman times. See my next post.
Here is what I wrote about this elsewhere: A further note on the antiquity of the name ‘Palestine’. In a long and awfully learned article by Robert Drews (”Canaanites and Philistines” in “Journal for the Study of the old Testament” 1998;23;39)I read: “By the end of classical antiquity, when Jerome was writing at Bethlehem, most people in the southern Levant who did not call themselves loudaioi called themselves Palaistinoi. Although the popularity of the Greek name Palaistinoi, or Palaestini in Latin, was due in large part to Hadrian’s decision in 135 CE to change the name of the Romans’ southern Levantine province from Judaea to Palaestina, the name was widespread long before the change in official nomenclature.” And in the Abstract he makes clear: “In the iron age many inhabitants of what once had been Canaan preferred to be called “Sons of Israel”, while those who did not affiliate themselves to Israel preferred the name “Palestinians” ”
Philip Weiss wrote:
That is why I left this site months ago. What about sending Adam Horror-witch on a week's education in the middle East too? Yes he has been to Israel, and he thinks that is the Middle East?
Phil I am touched by how this trip has changed your perspective. Thank you for having the courage to go and be transformed.
If USA is ever invaded he will move to Israel and join his zionist settler familes and sing folk songs.
Witty, if you're so desperate to read interviews with Hamas officials by a Jewish journalist, here are two articles by Orly Halpern: http://bit.ly/CVJNd ; http://bit.ly/CVJNd .
Richard, the goal is to end the occupation of all land invaded in 1967: Gaza, West Bank and East Jerusalem. It has been identified long time ago. That first step (of identifying the goal) has been done already. Unless of course you are speaking of Zionist timetable and I wouldn't be surprised if it transpired that they have no goal apart of indefinite maintenance of status quo? in that context your comment of practical coalition makes perfect sense.
Matt, Unfortunately, "guards" kill indefinitely more prisoners children than vice versa. For list see: http://www.rememberthesechildren.org It will chill you to the bone.
Arie is correct in calling it hasbara crap. Lord Balfour referred to Palestine. Maps in the archives at the University of Texas show Palestine goes back over 2000 years. The usurpers, the upstarts, are the 20th C-created Israelis. And the 'Sons of Israel' that Arie refers to below refer to the man Israel, not the country.
Phil needs to see himself just as he is, Phil. Phil's a wonderful person. Look at how honest he is. God tells us in the Quran that one must do justice to oneself. I think what it means is that one must be honest to onesself. I know Phil isn't a religious person but he's more on track than most religious people that I know. If you are honest to yourself then you are honest about others.
Is that Rumi? You better not be jacking Rumi's stuff.
You are in Texas!!
"Reimagining Jewishness" is ambiguous. It may mean reconceptualising, or even critiqueing it. Phil is being slightly defensive because he has been bombarded all his life with demands that he "think as a Jew," which is code for "think as a paranoid megalomaniac."
Thanks Phil for an illuminating and soulbearing post. I admire your courage and openness.
You are wrong. Therefore I am correcting you, as you requested.
Jacob had 12 sons. Genesis, Chapter 32 27: And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. 28: And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Genesis, Chapter 35 9: And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padan-aram, and blessed him. 10: And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel. 11: And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; 12: And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land. Except the words “nation” and “nations” did not exist at that time. (Neither did the word "company.") This text was added to the bibles in the early 20th C. Cyrus Scofield was hired by Untermyer to work on the Scofield Reference Bible in 1906 in Switzerland for four years. Scofield was a Texas pastor who took up the profession after spending a few years in jail in Kansas for embezzling his mother-in-law's fortune. He was ripe for the plucking.
I didn't know anything about the conflict until last summer. I remember telling my Math teacher on the way back from a spring lacrosse trip (he was the coach) that maybe it was a good idea we invaded iraq because saddam was one of the bad guys. This was 2003. I remember him saying in response, So? i didn't understand any of the politics back then. i just knew what was told on TV, and of course i didn't care much about this stuff, i was busy w/ sports/girls/etc. its amazing how much your perspective changes when you read up on the I-P conflict. if we had an honest MSM we would be a much different and better country
You are wrong.
I somehow would prefer the end to be like this: get lost so you can be found
No the first step is to study and analyze. What exactly happens. Since when does a journalist look at matters with an aim in mind other than informing? His duty is to report as unbiased as possibly. I like Phil's subjective take a lot, as others here suggested. Objectivity is a myth. You can't take the person reporting, outside pressure, …, out of the tale. What did it feel like when he had to sign a paper to be able to enter at all, somehow surrendering basic rights? It must have triggered fears of all sorts of danger. I somehow must have thought, are they heightened since I am a Jew? That's quite possibly what he is alluding to. Even as a reader you suddenly were fearful, or your wife, and with a little delay I was. If you look at every action as ultimately aim-guided you must always suspect a not so good aim, if it doesn't fit your expectations. As an accountant your aims are obvious, what are the core aims of a journalist? What are the aims of any person taking an interest in a conflict other than trying to understand, ideally before looking at matters with an aim in mind.
How do you reconcile your constant demand Phil defines his aims, other than the aim he obviously has to end the spiral of silence on the topic, with the fact that he is not, as he lately told us again, a movements man? What again was his exact phrasing? I think he choose his aim long ago. He wants to bring the spiral of silence shrouding the topic to an end. Couldn't his aim be simply to open up space for discussion for quite some time now? What exactly is wrong with this? Why do you think you need to advise your friend as to what his goals should rightfully be? (Basically I like the number four, but you missed his own aim in your list.) Could it be your different and more moderate view of Walt has nothing to do with the man himself, only your perception changed? You have slightly modified your suspicion? Phil has found his needle long ago and is choosing his stitches carefully. You can't see "his" aims since you want him to do what "you" consider right. Phil can only do what he considers right. You are not his master–Why do you think you are?–and you won't turn him into a movements leader.
My goal is to CONSTRUCT a consented definition of Israel and Palestine at the green line (with the exception that Israel will never and should never give up the Jewish portion of the old city of Jerusalem). Defined at 67 boundaries, the use of the term "occupation" is not such a provocative one. But, IF you stated the exact same content, but stated it in terms of what you support more than what you oppose, you'd be branded as a "collaborator" or "Zionazi" if you were also Jewish. Do you get how that language results in alienation and opposition among goog-hearted Jews and/or Zionists, rather than any strong force of public opinion that is possible? By only condemning, you don't pose the important questions to Israel, and supporters. The important questions ARE posed by the efforts of Obama, Abdullah of Jordan, Abbas. They eliminate obstacles to a contract, and then ask the question, "Do you want peace, or do you really want expansion?" And, then those questions do get asked in Israel and in New York, Los Angeles, and even people like Shumer ask the same questions of their allies. "There is a deal on the table. Don't you think we should take it?"
What does "historical accuracy" have to do with the using the term "Palestinian" in 2009?
Leander, Don't presume to know my motives or consciousness, and certainly not "as an accountant". If you are a party to my work product and are critical of it, then go ahead. This is Phil's work product, and I am appreciative of many of things that others have alluded to, and critical (sometimes more than critical). I've signed similar papers. I've been held up at borders, risked arrest, risked mob violence. (Not recently.) I assume that you know the difference between subjective story as part of the objective, and propaganda. One role that Phil and I shared in our professions, is of sometimes being the bearer of bad news. We both had a high bar of developing the credibility for that bad news to be respectfully heard. When one engages in campaign or propaganda (NOT an appreciable truth-telling), one is pursuing a goal. An honest person that does that, articulates what that goal is, discusses that prior, identifies the scope and criteria that they are investigating, and where good options are. It gives some direction, so that even "honest" presentations don't push a great effort six steps back, say a peace effort that demonizes more than it proposes or develops actual relations.
I think Phil has extended beyond the endearing "end the spiral of silence". For example, nearly EVERY reference to Bennie Morris' work includes the adjective "racist" Bennie Morris. Or, nearly EVERY reference to Stephen Walt includes "humane realist" Stephen Walt. When, in fact, there are enormous important aspects to both appreciate and criticize in all of their work. "his master"? How silly. I feel better about my integrity as an appreciator/critic than as a fan club. Stephen Walt has recently published at length, his support of the approach that validates Israel's security needs and right to exist, while urging humane policies for Israel and for the US that result in peace. We agree. He is does NOT demonize Israel in a one-dimensional manner. Its the content fo his argument that has been clarified. (Maybe he confidently acknowledged Israel's validity all along.)
I was raised as a Catholic, but left that belief system in my early teens and have never replaced it with another although I've studied the basic teachings of many religions; but I'm not an atheist. By default therefore I am an agnostic. With that background, I agree with Saleema. I've found that those most honest with themselves are also most honest with others and justice follows those tracks more than others. It's all about individual character. As Emerson said, Know Thyself. This of course is a lifetime occupation.
Amen to that–the MSM is no longer watching our backs; in fact it heaps anchors on us without blushing–we've come a long way down from the Pentagon Papers. It's pretty bad when cartoon shows on cable tv offer more cultural satire than our MSM.
Most Americans are not raised to cast a fine eye on USA foreign policy; they don't easily see how it affects their lives –until someone they know comes home in a body bag. Chances of this happening is pretty much restricted to a certain economic class of people. The super power status of the USA makes it imperative that all Americans (USA citizens) internalize the corresponding individual responsibility.
Arie, I somehow can't open the three replies above–I am assuming additional notes from you partly–but that relates to something a friend, who has a broader historical view on the topic from his much Latin and Greek versus my "little Latin and less Greek", remarked not long ago. He is a little impatient that I waste my time on the Israel/Palestine issue to this extent at all. He once suggested something like, that isn't even historical Israel. But I guess I had to take a look at his extensive collection of historical atlases and the relevant maps, to understand exactly what he meant. If I understood it correctly at all, that is. There are of course many contradictions in the tales that rely on a biblical right. How can G-d grant land, and did he grant it eternally? What did he say about the rights of others before and later? Did he consider a later at all? What provisions did he take to convince others that they had lost any rights to the real-estate for all eternity. Or did he say that would be the duty of the aim-guided humans. Why did they forget it so long then? And is Herzl G-d's messenger that brought his new decrees to the Jewish people on earth. Some kind of Messiah? Can a Jewish Messiah be essentially secular and what about the problems concerning rightful and false prophets. ************************************************************************ Parts of these arguments shift from religious rights to political rights. That's why I think a look at Israel's political theology, myth and Messianism must be interesting, more precisely the relation of religion and politics, origin, development, diverse views.
How about "get lost so you can be, found"?
At last. Someone realizes what the Philip Weiss' of the world really want to do, and it's really bad.
But Benny Morris is a racist. And in this day and age, and in the context of serious scholarly work – published by Yale, in Morris' case – I think one should point that out on every mention. It's a bit like making use of David Irving's work: it's intellectually dishonest not to mention that he's a Holocaust denier* when you do so. *Well, according to Deborah Lipstadt, so are we all (almost) – but Irving's the real deal.
Indeed. If you'd like to see a British examination of the news, somewhat in the vein of the Daily Show, I wholeheartedly recommend Charlie Brooker's recent series Newswipe (which was hidden away on BBC4, of course. It's very amusing when they show you exactly what the BBC censored). http://bit.ly/HRDfB
All effective propaganda contains some elements of truth. As you suggest, just not an appreciable truth-telling when viewed in its own context and on its own terms, as a whole. The ultimate standard is the whole truth of the matter addressed. What's left out? What is blown out of factual proportion? Leander's point that a journalist's "duty is to report as unbiased as possibly" is therefore well taken. Phil in Gaza is demonstrating this ethic. He is filling a void left by our MSM, an intentional void overlaid with propaganda motivated by the corrupt reality of current USA journalistic careerism–partnering with the same corruption in our Congress and many high governmental slots.
Ok, I'll reduce my questions to one point–although "mutually 'kind' foreign policy", somehow would deserve a comment, or a series of comments considering diverse aspects. 4. Affecting the nature of Palestinian, Arab and international public opinion and approach. The approach of attempting to affect Israel by outside pressure (punitive or overbearing American policy, approach of dissent, and world public opinion and policy) contains coercion in the same manner that the attempt by Israel to isolate Gaza was/is coercive, and the attempt to isolate Iran was/is coercive. That might be the most effective and right method, but if it is undesirable for the US relative to Hamas or Iran, it SHOULD be undesirable to you when directed at Israel. Explain me why it is no coercion to affect the nature of Palestinian/Arab public opinion but coercion when it concerns Israel? Are you aware that 25% of Mondoweiss readers are Iranians? What do you think about this. Would that somehow change the aim on the basis of facts? Or wouldn't allow any modification considering available target groups? Stephen Walt has recently published at length, his support of the approach that validates Israel's security needs and right to exist, while urging humane policies for Israel and for the US that result in peace. I think that was always his aim. Sometimes critique results from worries.
Endearing? Why such sarcasm, Witty? Phil has stated in the past on this blog why he started it up–you spit on his recognition that there's long been that big elephant in the room? You add your weight to the elephant's, on the high end of the teeter-totter to off-set Phil's tiny weight on the low end, all the while claiming you only want balance. The low end has risen slightly, as you begrudgingly acknowledge. It will rise higher, thanks to Phil and the constant attention of many who take the time to frequent and comment on this blog, a samisdat operation if there ever was one.
The English language did not exist at the time.
All wrong. Until 1948, the term "Palestinean" referred to a Jew from the region of "Palestine". I know – my father was a Palestinean – and we have all the id documents to demonstrate this. Arabs from the same region at the time preferred to be known as "Arabs". When the Jews established their own state in 1948, they chose the name "Israel" and came to be known as Israelis. I have personally spoken to Gazan Arabs in the 1960's who made a special point of calling themselves "Arabs" and not Palestineans (though some called themselves "Egyptians"). The very invention of "Palestinean nationality" was made in 1964 by a young Egyptian activist and terrorist named Yasser Arafat. There has never before in history been any kind of "Palestinean" nationality, culture, dialect, diet – anything. It was all invented in the1960's – oh, and that was BEFORE the so-called "occupation" by Israel…. This is not some "claim". It is all demonstrable history. Sorry that it upsets your bigoted view but that's life. Tough.
Phil, Ahmed admires your "courage". Wanna carry this backpack into that restaurant for someone….????
That's only if the occupying force allowed raisins in through the blockade.
What does Phil want to do? OH NOES ITS NAZI GERMANY ALL OVER AGAIN GUYS! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3TY_T9Y49Y&fe... Hitler! Nazi! Holocaust! Antisemitism! Jooooooooooooooooos!
Know thyself, is much older, citizen: http://www.lanxess-arena.de/events/detailansicht/... Today the Catholics celebrate a huge congress here in Cologne, a day of prayer for the "mother of all people, Mary". A friend of mine, a theologian, went early to take in the atmosphere. I'll abstain from boring you with my thoughts on Mary, the female and the Catholic Church. The above mentioned friend is homosexual by the way, he seems to know more about the forces behind the mega event. It's free and huge, so who sponsors it? http://www.lanxess-arena.de/events/detailansicht/... Gott zeigt uns durch Maria, die Mutter aller Völker, den Weg zum wahren Frieden Translation: God shows us through Mary, the mother of all people, the way to true freedom. Ultimately the possession of truth in religion is not dissimilar from ideologies–religion may have been the ultimate source of ideologies–contains a dangerous strain, to define and fight the other inside and outside. Notice the claim to universal truth in the quote above.
if only i lived in another time my name might be dante in italian i'd rhyme or i might be milton the stuffy old goat tangled in english till i cut my throat or maybe just maybe i'd be mr. hesse and through one good eye see my way home no less
We don't minimize anything, Witty. We are just aware of a gross imbalance of power, afforded by US taxpayers and US UN Sec Counsel votes. And, of course, that one side has had a state since 1948 and the other side still has none, and that the Palestinians had nothing to do with Shoah.
I agree. At some point shouldn't each individual human care for more than their own immediate family? Or extended family? Is there a "family of man" or not? There was a coffee table book so titled, back in the rebellious mid to later 1960s. I was given a copy by a Jewish girl I knew back then. She was the valedictorian of my graduating college class. While she gave me the book, she told me we could never marry because it would break her parents' heart if she didn't marry a Jewish guy. My answer at the time was I painted a picture of her, but refused to have sexual relations with her. I hope she's happy.
Excellent statements Phil but….. "For me to agonize about my Jewishness when I know about the degree of persecution is actually indulgent and a dodge." Yep… I've been telling you that for a long time. The jewish tendency to talk about 'everything',even their presecution of others, only in terms of how it 'affects jews is a dead give away to their mentality. Can they change?…not without some huge intervention…hopefully that is what Obama is about to do. He's the first president in decades to say out loud that what Israel is doing .."Is not in America's Interest". "Not in America's interest" pricks up the ears of the American public.
Not sure what you are telling me-us here, LeaNder22. I never meant to imply Emerson was the first to utter that thought. Socrates certainly implied it so many ways; and I am sure others have stated it over history. As I stated, I left the Catholic church as a kid. I guess, in religious terms, Eve has a claim too on being the mother of all people. I do know my mother was a devout Catholic her whole life and she never harmed a flea. Once she stole a small creamer from a Howard Johnson's restaurant and regretted it her whole life. Who knows how many rosaries she said? She said a rosary every night. I don't think her religious devotion ever harmed anyone. She was open to all humans she met. As I said, I'm an agnostic by default, not even on principle. I don't know if religion nets bad or good over history. I do know that the most ethical and moral people I've met are secular over my lifetime so far. They live with doubt, and it makes them question both themselves and what others claim.
Happy to know Richard Witty knows in his own mind what Phil's audience expects. Yet he always objects when he thinks somebody is claiming to read his own mind. Now is that not the very profile of an authoritarian personality? I nominate Witty as the most mendacious regular posting comments on this blog. I wish for him being locked forever in an elevator, the walls covered by talmudic graffiti. The one unreal part of this wish being that his son is harnessed with keeping the elevator suspended in mid-air, rather than GI Joe or Jane.
Yes. The truth is always hard to take.
Not all Palestinians were/are Arabs. Palestine, like Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq, was always much more diverse than that.
"The jewish tendency to talk about 'everything',even their presecution of others, only in terms of how it 'affects jews is a dead give away to their mentality." It is self-referential, and narcissistic.
Think of all the people on the earth who grew up thinking they were special. Think of all the harm they've done, always with the best intentions that seemed clear to them. On the one hand, we are aware of the problem of negative self-image, and of the problem of projection, but when will we address the problem of simply being a spoiled brat? This seems a big issue. It looks like the USA culture has gone from one extreme to another in many ways touching on this issue.
Naw. Let's let the Israelis carry their own backpack for a change. Cut off aid to Israel.
Amen.
Don't presume to know my motives or consciousness, and certainly not "as an accountant". Look, a cousin of mine is economist, certified accountant, and auditor. I worked for him as a student and I had many talks with him about his field. I know what his aims "have to be" from the perspective of his customers. It wasn't cynical, but as someone with a very strong basis in the arts and the humanities I have discovered the dominance of aims only in my postgrad studies in art management and mainly in economics which was one of the two main fields the other was law. In economics everything circles around aims, and a few basic laws. In the arts as in every field concerning humans more generally aim is not the highest priority. If a painter paints a picture what exactly are his aims?. What exactly are the aims of the playwright or the musician? A writer must have a complex set of aims. What aim did e.g. Shakespeare have with King Lear? I am not assuming to know you, and I actually still can agree with some of your notes. But it still strikes me that you don't consider mainstream thought ever as propaganda, and I am afraid it partly is, while you often declare Phil's articles as propaganda. I am assuming that we differ both on balance and propaganda, your definition often seems to be propaganda is everything that challenges Israel's official fear mongering. A friend of Iranian origin told me not long ago about Iranians. They live for almost 30 years now under that threat, they hope that America will not support the war against them. The problem many of his family and friends don't vote anymore. They feel it doesn't make a difference.The large masses in fact profit under people like Ahmadinejad. They clearly are the majority. What do you know about the Israeli periphery doctrine? One thing one doesn't learn in Morris but in Avi Shlaim, if I remember correctly. But much more detailed in Trita Parsi. Treacherous Alliance, Search: periphery doctrine: http://books.google.de/books?client=firefox-a&...