Exclusive report from Jerusalem

I can’t say anything more than that it’s all exceedingly unbelievable bullshit.

Posted in Israel/Palestine

{ 76 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Seham says:

    The Palestinians must overthrow Abbas and the rest of the “leadership” in Ramallah and then the Palestinians must rule out ANY and ALL American intervention on their behalf. No more U.S. involvement, the U.S. is working for the Israelis and I don’t know what it will take before the morons in Ramallah realize that. The Palestinians can join the Turkey/Iran/Syria alliance. Whatever. Whatever it takes so that they survive. And they shouldn’t give a crap what ANYONE thinks. The U.S. aligns itself with whatever monster of the day it needs for oil and other resources (Saddam). The Israelis are shameless in who they align themselves with for their own interests (White Regime in S.A.). The only people that would attack the Palestinians would be the racists that want to see them eradicated anyway.

    No justice, no peace, U.S. out of the Middle East.

    • Citizen says:

      I sympathize with you Seham, however US involvement is not going away–hell I voted for Ron Paul, so how far did he get? Kucinich is good too on this foreign policy issue; so how far does he get? Due to our political campaign finance system, and our gerrymandering system, and our controlled MSM, not to mention our Military-Industrial Complex industry, and our banking system, the average USA vote means nothing at all; Israel uber alles will continue to be supported, same as
      the income gap will continue to grow. A little cutting around the edges, lots of
      “natural growth” in fact.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Not that it’s much consolation to go on Seham, but the United States is driving itself off a cliff. US involvement might not go away, but US power could (and probably will, I think).

      • Seham says:

        Yeah the U.S. is driving itself off a cliff, but it’s going to be longer than the O.J. chase because before they drive off they’re start a couple more wars and slaughter a few million more brown people.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Is it wrong that I pray for some sort of civil war before a WW3? I’d rather have neither but if it’s one or the other, I’d rather the US imploded rather than exploded. Too many innocent people — in the Middle East in particular — have been slaughtered in the name of the US as it is.

      • potsherd says:

        Chaos – the civil war will be in Israel.

    • yonira says:

      I hate to break it to you Seham, but there is no Syria/Iran/Turkey alliance. Turkey is pandering to its Muslim majority, but the military still has the power in Turkey. They will not sacrifice their position is NATO or their hope to join the EU for Syria and Iran.

      The Syrians and Iranians record on Human Rights is not much better than the S.A. government.

      The Palestinians will never be ‘free’ until they disassociate themselves from Syria and Iran, who cares even less about them than the US administration does. They are being used as a proxy to oppose Israel. Look at history, the Arab and Persian regimes have never helped the Palestinians for without mutual benefit., look where the last 60 years have gotten them…..

      The Palestinians relationship w/ the US is the ONLY thing which is curtailing any settlement activity. If the Palestinians would do as you recommend the settlements would run wild, there’d be zero hope for any freedom for the Palestinians, and there’d be another 60 years of this crap….

      I understand your frustration, but not your total separation from reality.

      • James says:

        the us/ palestinian ””relationship”’ is in name only.. only a fool would suggest it’s anything more… when the usa decides to quit sucking on israels tootsies, a us/palestine relationship might be possible, but until then it is just a convenient excuse for continuing with the same bullshit and exposes the usa for the hypocrite it has always been, especially when it comes to the mid east dynamic…

        oh, did i mention that’ i hate to break it to you’?? what kind of stupid comment is that anyway???

      • Seham says:

        “I hate to break it to you Seham, but there is no Syria/Iran/Turkey alliance. ”

        Maybe I am making pie in the sky (is that a saying? it sounds like it should be one) but we’ll see what happens with this new Turkey business. I was particularly pleased that they canceled their little war games with Israel because they will not be aiding and abetting any attacks on Iran.

        “The Syrians and Iranians record on Human Rights is not much better than the S.A. government.”

        Yeah. You are missing the point, I never said that their human rights records were better, I said that the Palestinians SHOULDN’T CARE who they align themselves with because Israel and the U.S. have consistently aligned themselves with filth.

        “The Palestinians will never be ‘free’ until they disassociate themselves from Syria and Iran, who cares even less about them than the US administration does”

        Ohhhhh so that’s why the Palestinians aren’t free yet. Good to know!

        I’m not even going to bother responding to the rest of the gibberish that you wrote, because, I suspect that you are fully aware of the criminal role that the U.S. is playing in Palestine but that you are just spewing your nonsense for hasbara purposes.

        During the election I had this nagging feeling that Obama winning would be horrible for Palestinians. I thought that if he won his popularity would force the Palestinians to accept a horrible, horrible solution. Yet, I still gave him my $, voted for him, cried on election night and hoped that maybe at least he would fix this country. Almost a year later and absolutely nothing.

      • Taxi says:

        I hate to break it to you but if Turkey is not permitted to join the European Union, which looks to be the case, then Turkey is determined to assert its power REGIONALLY. And considering they have a deeper rooted history with the Arabs as opposed to European Jewish-convert settlers, it’s quite obvious that Turks are/will develop further economic and security pacts with it’s Arab neighbors.

        Israel has no REAL friends in the region – because of their war crimes and murder of hundreds of innocent children.

        The Zionist experiment in the holy land is a failed project. We will see the end of Israel in our lifetime right there on our TV screens.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        You broke message, Yonira. Did you forget that Iran was the great “Cobra Commander” of the Islamofascist terrorist network? You should recheck that hasbara manual of yours — getting off message is one of the worst faux pas of spin doctoring.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Also?

        “The Palestinians relationship w/ the US is the ONLY thing which is curtailing any settlement activity.”

        Last time I loooked, nothing was curtailing settlement activity. Clinton and Obama’s advice to the Palestinians at this point is, “bend over.”

      • Shingo says:

        IJ hate to break it right back to you Yonira,

        But while Turkey’s leadership in basically a mob gang, they do not take their orders from the US. When the US was seeking allies to invade Iraq, Turkey’s rejected the idea and the military stepped into line, in spite of Paul Wolfotwitz insisting that the military ognore the government and join the fight anyway.

        Palestinians weren’t free before they were associated with Iran. In fact, Iran is their only lifeline. The Palestinian resitance pre-dates the Iranin revlution and exists in spite of Iran, not because of it. War mongers like Netenyahu try to triviliaze the occupation by insiting that any opposition from Hamas and Hebollah is pure Iranian policy, but the fact is that that Hamas and Hebollah are Isreali creations.

        The US has never curtailed settelment activity and it won’t in the future. The US is a sinking ship anyway, and the Israeli/Palstine issue only ever gets minimal attention between election cycles for domestic consumption.

      • yonira says:

        You guys are something else on here.

        Look at the history of Turkey, their military holds the power. They depend on the Israeli defense infrastructure more than almost any other country. And their membership in NATO will keep them in line

        Shingo, the Palestinians have NEVER been free, before Israel they were occupied by Britain/Egypt/Jordan, before the the Ottomans. The current situation sucks, but its the first time they EVER had the ability to have colleges, have any sort of representation by their own people.

        If it were up to me i’d give that piece of shit land back to their previous occupiers and and see how they are treated by their Arab brothers, like shit I am sure. Or even better yet, we can give the Golan back also and then watch Assad quell the resistance like his daddy did in Hama……

        The only chance for any dignity is a two state solution, history proves it. The ‘failed’ Zionist experience isn’t going anywhere, because unlike its predecessors, Israel has actually done things to make the world better on a global scale, not just sell the world oil and perpetually fight each other.

        Again, like I say in ever post, Israel is far from perfect, the settlements are a disgrace, along with the occupation. I disagree with a lot Israel is doing especially w/ the current administration, but its not going anywhere. Israel will continue to be a Jewish state, the Palestinans and Arabs can either reconcile or continue another thousand years of misery and occupation.

        History says they are incapable of anything else other than being the occupied victim……

      • History says they are incapable of anything else other than being the occupied victim……

        Jew accuses others of playing the victim!

      • MRW says:

        Look at history, the Arab and Persian regimes have never helped the Palestinians for without mutual benefit

        What part of your ass did you pick that out of?

      • Shingo says:

        Yonira,

        As has been pointed out, the Turkish military has not role or memebership in NATO. Why you keep insisting otherwise is a mystery.

        Whole the Palestinians have had freedom and self determination. As early as 1914, the Palestinians had a contitution and were holding elections. They have had freedom and aelf determination, even while under Britain/Egypt/Jordanian rule, and more importantly, they had property rights. They were free from enthnic cleasing, home demolitions, eviction, check points, and the occasional massacre.

        So no, history does not say they are incapable of anything else other than being the occupied victim. Quite the contrary in fact soon after the first Zionist Congress in 1897, Basel (Switzerland), a Zionist delegation was sent to Palestine for a fact finding mission and to explore the viability of settling Palestine with European Jewry. The delegation replied back from Palestine with a cable:

        “The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man.” (Iron Wall, p. 3)

        Then On March 1, 1899 Yosef Diya al-Khalidi (from the renowned Jerusalem family) wrote in a letter to Theoder Herzl explaining that Zionism in practice entails the dispossession and the displacement of the Palestinian people, he wrote:

        “It is necessary, therefore, for the peace of the Jews in [the Ottoman Empire] that the Zionist Movement . . . stop. . . Good lord, the world is vast enough, there are still uninhabited countries where one could settle millions of poor Jews who may perhaps become happy there and one day constitute a nation. . . .. In the name of God, let Palestine be left in peace.” Herzl responded that Zionists do not intend on dispossession and displacing the Palestinians, on the contrary, he stated the Jews will bring to Palestine ONLY material benefits? (Righteous Victims, p. 37)

        The current situation today does not hold a candle to what they used to enjoy.

        You’re a typical Israeli obscurantist. That “piece of shit land” was owned by the Palestinians, not any so called Arab, who BTW were not their brothers.

        There is no historical record of a two state solution proving successful. Jews and Palestinains lived quite peacfully side by side until the Europeans began arriving, os if anything, that proves that a one state solutino is viable.

        Israel has done nothing to make the world better. In fact, it has contributed littel else other than incite violence in the region and has become a military state who’s rason d’ etre is to perpetually seek out conflicts with it’s neighbors.

        Saying that Israel is far from perfect, is like saying that aparthid South Africa was misunderstood. Still, no one is suggestin that Israel should be going anywhere. Whether Israel continues to be a Jewish state, or otherwise is up to Israsel, but it is a fraud to insist that the misery and occupation or the Palestinians is due to any refusal to recognize Israel. Arafat recognized Israel and it got him killed.

        For your sake and everyone else’s on this blog, now would be a good time to stop wanting our time with your propaganda and revisionism.

  2. Citizen says:

    As somebody pointed out on a slightly earlier post thread here, it’s pretty obvious Obama has been pulled up by the short hairs since Cairo. Who got to him that couldn’t get to him enough before that speech? At this point Hillary merely reflects her superiors, so the basic question remains. Anyone here got any clue?

    • Taxi says:

      Rahm Emanuel, the President’s flanker, is your answer.

      The battle for Obama’s ear re: mideast was between Rahm and George Mitchell.

      We now know who won.

    • Nolan says:

      There are some claims that AIPAC has been using the health reform issue for leverage against Obama’s stance regarding Israel. I haven’t looked at the supporting evidence yet. But, it might be worth following that lead.

      • Taxi says:

        The big pharmaceuticals are zionist supporters and Obama was stupid for not foreseeing that pharmos and aipacers would join forces and do deals behind closed doors that would disadvantage him – well more like cripple him.

  3. Chaos4700 says:

    Before? It was just a speech. There has never been any action behind Obama’s hollow words. Why assume that something’s changed behind the scenes? It’s not a necessary assumption. Seriously, he put the Rahmbo up as his Chief of Staff from the get go. Boy do I feel stupid for giving that guy the benefit of the doubt.

  4. olive says:

    “Who got to him that couldn’t get to him enough before that speech?”

    The answer is nobody. Obama’s Cairo Speech was a cynical move on his part to pacify the many naive Muslims out there who think that a simple change in US administration would stop the slaughter of Muslims around the world. What they fail to realize is that America is not just one man, rather, it is its institurions. As long as these institutions hunger for Muslim resources, Muslims should not hope for any major change in US policy.

  5. James says:

    speeches are what politicians give… meanwhile their actions or lack thereof are what one needs to pay attention to…. obama has brought a different attitude with his speeches, but the actions especially as self described ‘peace broker in the mideast’ are essentially unchanged… the usa remains in israels backpocket and we can thank obama for all the sweet words, but it doesn’t change a thing…

    • Citizen says:

      Mmmmmm, deed (or no deed) versus creed; we do know Obama sat in that pew for 20 years, and we do know his chosen gate keeper spent time nursing IDF tank treads, while his dad smugly bragged how his son was no arab broom pusher…

  6. MRW says:

    I’m beginning to think Gore Vidal was right. Vidal voted for him, thought he might be a Light. Now says he’s incompetent, and in way over his head.

    Sickens me. I campaigned for him. The amount of time I wasted on that election over a two-year period was frightening.

  7. Well, I would expect that Steve Walt in particular disagrees with your assessment Seham, and by inference that Phil would as well.

    Steve Walt is a realist. His primary political science contribution has been in articulating the mechanics and desirability of stability of international relationships through layers of homeostasis of mutual accountability.

    Your proposal to entirely revise political relationships in the region, creates a vacuum of power, an utterly revolutionary shift in relations that results in instability, war, and the likely consequences of war: those with the most effective military, wins.

    The proposal of anti-US alliance resulting in war in response to you feeling betrayed or stolen from, is what I would call DISPROPORTIONATE, if that is an important principle to you, and not only a convenient accusation.

    You do describe a great tragedy in the making, really as a result of Israeli policy, that is the prospect of a Turkey/Syria/Iran alliance. It would change the balance of power in Europe greatly, and prospectively result in a world war, actually.

    I would hope that you value life more than that.

    • I also hope that Israel values life more than that, and that Obama sees that the consequences for pandering to Netanyahu on settlements in particular are potentially that extreme.

      • Shingo says:

        Yes, keep hoping Richard,

        Hope is just so realible and effective isn’t it? Tell me Richard, are you really sniggering as you type that sanctimonious diatribe?

    • Seham says:

      “I would hope that you value life more than that. ”

      Yeah Richard, that’s the thing I do value life more than that. I am outraged over the historical relationships that the U.S. has with Arab tyrants in the region to the detriment of the Arab people in those countries. What the hell does the common Egyptian have to show for because of this country’s relationship with the rapist, murderer, hooligan Mubarak? I think the only benefit Egyptians get is that some of them can buy cheaper government subsidized bread. What about the Jordanians? Have you ever met any Jordanians? I never met a people so unwilling to criticize their “king” because they are terrified that they are going to end up getting their genitals electrocuted in prison for defaming that midget of a tyrant king that t hey have. Every single Arab country that the U.S. has close personal ties with is a travesty of human rights for their people. Screw that. I do care about life Witty, I care about enough to know that decency for Arabs and U.S. interference are like oil and water. This country will overlook ANYTHING if it means cheap oil, the prospect of cheap oil, or Arab launching pads to start wars in the region from. What do the Arabs have to gain from that? Nothing. U.S. out of the Middle East!

      • My comment was on what you proposed Seham.

        It often happens with bitter anger, that you create harm in your imagined hope of reducing it.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        That’s what they made the “reply” button for, Witty. Context matters.

        Incidentally, you going to do anything other than hope that Israel changes its ways and starts treating Palestinians like human beings instead of animals?

      • Seham says:

        Yeah my comment was in response to your comment. As often happens when you get used to spitting out hasbara, you become confused and unable to keep up with what is going on around you. Hard to think outside of your talking points, Witty.

      • Read the content in my post, rather than only the stimulating anger points.

        I’m actually saying something.

      • potsherd says:

        No, Witty, you’re not saying a damn thing, only exhibiting your own bloated self-absorption and self-esteem.

      • carnas says:

        Newsflash: (almost) every Arab country is a travesty of human rights regardless of its ties to the US – take a look at Syria, Libya, and Yemen.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        …which at worst, puts them in the same boat as Israel and the US, carnas.

      • yonira says:

        Is it a coincidence that your only criticize Arab countries which have normalized relationships with Israel?

        This is the same hatred which makes Israel feel threatened, which in turn creates a horrible environment for its neighbors. This is the same hatred which stopped any sort of agreement after ’67.

        Peace is possible, but forgiveness and reconciliation is needed first. Continued hope for the end of the Jewish state of Israel will get the Palestinians no where. Arab leadership cares less about the Palestinians than US leadership cares about the Arabs.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Is it merely a coincidence that that countries which have normalized relationships with the West are the ones who are among the most noted human rights violators, hmm? Well, there is Iran — not an Arab country, mind you, but still in the neighborhood. And as a matter of fact, I have been outspoken about the rights violations going on over there.

        It seems I’ve picked up a person with a vendetta against me, as I have (admittedly) against Witty. Not that I’m complaining, mind you — I’m really not even breaking a sweat here against these direct attacks.

        How come Israelis are never to blame for their own actions? Zionists always treat Israel like its population is made up of coddled children — and then again, maybe it is.

  8. Philip Weiss says:

    Folks, I initially gave Anees’s note to me a Cairo headline. He was actually just responding in rage to the latest news; and I grabbed the bitter irony. I have changed the headline to reflect the actual thrust of his comment. Still looking for a better headline, Phil

    • James says:

      i was wondering about that….. thanks for philling in the blanks…

    • I thought that it was another example of really your voice, using another’s comment to sheild you from the consequences of authorship.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Seriously? Is this how Zionist Jews really act? To everybody? All the time? Even their friends? Holy crap.

      • Its a consistent theme of mine, that people use their real names and say “I”, rather than hide behind a rhetorical “human shield”.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Are you accusing Phill Weiss of being a liar?

      • I’m accusing him of not being clear about what he believes and advocates for. Not taking that degree of personal responsibility.

      • Richard,
        Phil sometimes plugs an offhand email I send him as a post on his site, such as the case here. Sometimes I write my own post using the proper blog posting page and he or Adam reviews then posts it, sometimes with minor edits (often the title is changed).

        Phil and Adam want other voices, specially from the Palestinian side, to be present here. The idea that Philip Weiss is shy about his opinions is ‘whatever’.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Witty’s just doing what Witty does best: ignoring the actual content and facts of the topic and exploiting an opportunity to stab other Jews in the back for not being Zionists like himself.

      • Its hard to tell what he believes.

        I just read Rashid Khalidi’s “Foundations of Palestinian Identity”.

        One of the points that he was attentive to dismiss in his introduction, was that Palestinian identity (as named Palestinian, and in specific characteristics and self-definitions) was not solely formed only in reaction to Zionism, that it had an independant character, voice.

        I presume that, and value that.

        My presumption of clearly, confident, free identity, conflicts with both his subsequent descriptions (which were almost entirely defined by some response to Zionism only), and comments here that only speak of angers (reactions) and neglect actual descriptions of experiences, thoughts, inquiries, hopes, proposals.

        We are both criticized for speaking from the perspective of “what is good for our own community”.

        My personal attitude again is that I care a great deal for the welfare of my own family of families, and I only care a bunch for the welfare of Palestinians.

        If I confronted a Palestinian that stated, “I only care a lot about the welfare of Israelis”, I would find great hope and confidence that in laying out our needs and concerns on the table, a tangible reconciliation would be possible.

        Whether my comments are maliciously framed as “hasbara” or not.

      • Nolan says:

        &@^#* just doing what *@#&# does best: ignoring the actual content and facts of the topic and exploiting an opportunity to stab other Jews in the back for not being Zionists like himself.

        No self respecting human being would continue to behave and shill like that creature does if it weren’t for money. Methinks, it either gets paid by the post, or it is disturbed.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        “My personal attitude again is that I care a great deal for the welfare of my own family of families, and I only care a bunch for the welfare of Palestinians.”

        That’s the difference between you and me, Witty, and the difference between you and most of the American progressive movement. I’m a white middle class Catholic-raised American man living in the Midwest. If I had the selfish attitude you have, I wouldn’t be speaking out at all because, strictly speaking, it would be in my pure self-interest and the interest of my family to preserve the status quo.

        As it happens, yes, my political activism is a bit of a point of contention between me and my family.

  9. ehrens says:

    Full text of the speech

    link to nytimes.com

    Yes, it’s all bullshit.

    • Citizen says:

      Here’s Rush Limbaugh saying Obama kicked Israel to the curb in the Cairo speech;
      he says Obama equated the Shoah with Palestininian misery caused by Palestinian leaders: link to rushlimbaugh.com

      • Rush is an example of John Derbyshire’s thesis that no conservative can survive without being craven toward the Jews. And of course my thesis, that once one is craven toward the Jews, there’s nothing left to conserve.

      • yonira says:

        Rush is a complete f-ing moron. He has no right to talk about either Jewish or Palestinian suffering.

        America First, there is a difference between Israel and Jews, Jews and Israel. All Jews aren’t Israelis and all Israelis are Jews.

        When you lump all Jews together many consider this anti-Semitic. Perhaps this is your intention, America First was a pretty anti-Semitic crew in their glory days (if there was a such a time for them it was a pretty weak organization).

        Just felt like giving you a heads up, don’t want you to sound too ignorant, but if that is truly your intention don’t stop at the behest of sounding like a moron, racist, etc… etc…

      • Chaos4700 says:

        AF is talking about the reaction of conservatives like Rush to Jewish people, not about any characteristic of Jewish people in general. Your attempts to go around slandering people on this blog are laughable, at best.

        I’m sure you’d like to think you have moral high ground with regards to looking like a moron, Yonira, but I’m sorry to say your head isn’t even above the waterline here.

  10. Cheryl says:

    If I was Obamaa looking for support on holding Israel’s feet to the fire on the settlements I would look first to people like Chuck Schumer and Joe Lieberman in the Senate and Representative Berman in the House. These people have AIPAC hanging on their coattails and have the power to stop Obama on both domestic and international issues. Obama has said on several occasions that he cannot make change
    by himself. He has AIPAC aligned Congresspeople pressuring him on Iran as well as concern about domestic issues and the failure of the Dems to hold their group together – so losing Lieberman (health reform) becomes huge and Lieberman’s good friend Susan Collins (MAINE Republican) who is moderate may turn with Lieberman.
    Presidents have for years struggled with Congress going behind them to tell the Israelis they would get what they want. Even George W. Bush, as he announced his RoadMap, had a group of powerful members of Congress over in Israel at the same time telling Sharon not to be concerned…..In the case of the power of Israel to withstand pressure I would direct my attention to the Congress. Schumer, Lieberman, Berman and friends would not allow Israel to feel the heat.
    Obama sticks out his finger and if he gets no support from the general public, I suspect he pulls it back in and goes with a meeker pose because he cannot buck the strongmen of Congress.
    I believe both Obama and Clinton want to see settlements end. This is their hurdle…they cannot do it alone.

    • James says:

      cheryl quote – ‘I believe both Obama and Clinton want to see settlements end. This is their hurdle…they cannot do it alone. ‘
      they are doing an incredibly piss poor job of communicating this to the american public if it’s their goal as you suggest…

      i am looking for a self sacrificing politician to state the obvious and quit bending over for israel… neither of these 2 are capable… maybe they will be, but so far nada…

      • Chaos4700 says:

        You’ll have to find politicians who aren’t chasing campaign dollars. And those politicians don’t win elections any more. I’d like to think the American public will wake up one day and figure out that voting for the candidate with the snazziest PR campaign is a bad idea.

        I’m not holding my breath at this point.

      • Cheryl says:

        Kucinich is such a politician and he has been marginalized. Ron Paul comes down hard on foreign aid to Israel and except for his loyal following of citizens, I don’t view him as a leader in the House.
        When Obama criticized Israel, Schumer immediately interceded. I think this administration was very specific about settlements but I don’t recall a single powerful member of Congress coming to their support. In addition, this latest Joe Lieberman turn on healthcare is baffling although granted he is in an insurance state and gets much money from insurance companies…Still, Joe has always seen himself as the great humanitarian and protector of the little people….One side of me now wonders if his turncoat position on healthcare is not a payback to Obama for Obama coming down hard on Israeli settlements originally. Nobody fools around with Lieberman’s Israel.

      • James says:

        Joe Lieberman is a complete doofus… anyone who voted, or votes for him must expect nothing in return, other then a 2 faced personality i suppose….

    • potsherd says:

      August. During the August recess of Congress, they all went running to Israel to make deals with Netanyahu to shaft Obama’s settlement freeze.

  11. Cheryl says:

    Also, if I remember right, one of the reasons George W. courted the Christian Zionists and Jewish Zionists was because he believed that his father had lost the election because he came down hard on Israel and the lobby responded in force. Remember when Obama came to Iowa and stated that the Palestinians had suffered more than any….? He got creamed and one of his aides was incredulous….said to me that all Obama had said was that the Palestinians had suffered. The reaction was swift and fierce. Intimidation is a powerful tool. Couple that with the inability to move anything forward in Congress if you get on the wrong side of powerful members of Congress. Couple that with our national security being all intertwined with Israel so that at the same time the FBI is following Israeli spies our military is learning and sharing and activating policies on terrorism etc. with the IDF…. It is a huge and ugly Chinatown mess. (Didn’t Roman Polanski direct “Chinatown”?)

  12. syvanen says:

    RW is on a real tear today. Anees from Jerusalem tells us how a young Palestinian activists sees what is happening to his people and how their current leadership is failing. This is a voice that deserves attention in order to understand, what the Palestinian street is demanding. How does RW respond? Well, with a bunch of condescending and patronizing advice on how an oppressed people should deal with their oppression. His advise is to sit down and talk with the oppressors even as they are talking the oppressors are stealing even more of the Palestinians land.

    Then RW comes with this whopper: If I confronted a Palestinian that stated, “I only care a lot about the welfare of Israelis”, I would find great hope and confidence that in laying out our needs and concerns on the table, a tangible reconciliation would be possible.

    Of course RW, you need Palestinians to believe this. If only the Palestinians would care first about the Israelis then the Israelis would enter into reconciliation with their oppressed subjects. RW do you have any idea how divorced from reality your comments are? Think about this for one second. What if Mandela took your advice?

    There was a point where I defended RW from the charge being a dishonest Zionist. My defence was that he lacked the intellectual tools to deal with the contradictions between theory (ie Zionism) and practice (the oppression of all non-Jewish natives in today’s Palestine). Today I think we have to consider a deeper psychological disorder: namely he is stir crazy insane.

  13. Donald says:

    He’ll drive you crazy if you try to engage him seriously (speaking from experience). It’s best , I think, to keep one’s distance and use his statements as data on how some people think.

  14. MRW says:

    RW: If I confronted a Palestinian that stated, “I only care a lot about the welfare of Israelis”, I would find great hope and confidence that in laying out our needs and concerns on the table, a tangible reconciliation would be possible.

    Let’s expand this, and try it from the other side of the fence. How would this work out? Think it would?
    (1) If I confronted a Israeli that stated, “I only care a lot about the welfare of Palestinians”, I would find great hope and confidence that in laying out our needs and concerns on the table, a tangible reconciliation would be possible.

    (2) If your original statement was a suitable, workable, and correct solution, tell me
    a) why has no one has thought of, or tried , it so far?
    b) why dont diplomats and politicians recommend it?

  15. syvanen says:

    Good point MTW. If the master makes that offer to its slave, then it would be magnanimous and could lead to reconciliation, but for the slave to make that offer to the master, it would be servile and would just be acceptance of the status quo.

  16. So, we’re back to that fundamental difference between the assessment that the situation is a conflict (in which multiple parties contribute to the chain of events), or a “slavery” (in which only the oppressor is responsible in any way).

    • yonira says:

      Richard, remember where you are posting, of course its a slavery. Palestinians aren’t responsible for anything……

      • Shingo says:

        Too right Yonira,

        After all, everyone knows that Jews in teh Warsaw Ghetto begged to be incarerated right? It wasn’t the Nazis doing it to them.

    • MRW says:

      Richard, answer my questions.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        He can’t. Not only is Zionism a form of racism, it’s a form of cowardice, too. Remember the axiom: whatever a Zionist accuses someone else of doing, they themselves are the prime perpetrators? Well lately, Witty’s been tripping over himself to smear Anna Balzer as evasive and incapable of answering questions. Well, there you go.

      • I didn’t get how your questions related at all to anything that I stated. What do you want me to respond to in fact?

  17. Citizen says:

    Here’s another exclusive report to consider:
    link to israelshamir.net

  18. Tuyzentfloot says:

    If I would describe what’s been happening I find it near impossible to reach that conclusion from reading the Landler/Bronner NYTimes article. The overall perception sucks but still a lot of the facts are there. Where are the factual errors? Where is the reporting falling short? What would you say to their ombudsman? I ask because I think it’s difficult(no, not really asking, just go on about your business). Did the Goldstone report accuse both parties of war crimes? Well, yeah. It wouldn’t occur to me to represent this as something symmetrical though.

    I also think this use of “unprecedented” has a lot of comical potential.