There’s a disappointing story in the New York Times today about that fatal rocket attack on Israel yesterday. It plays pretty big, on page three.
In the first paragraph we are informed that the rocket was fired from "Hamas-controlled" territory.
It isn’t till we reach the fifth or sixth paragraph that we are told that "Ansar al-Sunna, a small, fiercely anti-Western jihadist group that challenges Hamas" takes responsibility for the attack. And then, much lower down, it says that Hamas "has made some efforts to prevent rocket fire by smaller militant groups."
So, basically, Israel went in, destroyed the Gaza police force, smashed everything to pieces, and now is holding the Hamas government responsible for everything that happens in every square inch of its territory.
What did you expect from the NYT — intellectual honesty?
mondoweiss going to cover this any time soon?
UC Berkeley student senate votes in favor of divestment
link to uruknet.com
I am please, its the NYT not anyone from Israel….The Israelis must never get involved with this business of news bloating! What a bland money!..
Um… Ethan Bronner? Married an Israeli and his son’s in the IDF. And what’s that one woman’s name who writes for the NYT who is Israeli?
Haven’t you been paying attention, zamaaz? That’s been all over this blog lately.
Yes, that is my point, pro Israelis for that matter must never bloat news…it is a poison to to theirselves…
Jew, related to a Jew, or not a Jew – that is never the issue. Just dont bloat the facts or news!
If US is divesting from Israel, where shall it put its security investment, Iran?, Syria? or Libya?, or among the American people themselves…If its Americans, then they will go back to square one again – Israel!
Is not anyone from Universities of New York, Berkely, Los Angeles, Columbia, Yale, Harvard, etc. found dead in 9/11? If they should divest from Israel now, they should start identifying what will be possibly the next ‘ground zero’… Chicago, Washington, ….
The bravery needed in the fields of Afghanistan, Iraq, or among the Israelis facing against the Palestinians Antifada is chicken compared to bravery that takes one to jump over 20, or a hundred floor of a burning building in the likes of New York World Trade Center
How about the bravery of the crew of the USS Liberty?
I don’t think any sound minded American is going to do jumping 9/11 style again…
“The bravery needed in the fields of Afghanistan, Iraq,…”
ROTFL!
Here is what the NYTs ignores today:
link to haaretz.com
Which is about Netanyahu dissing Merkel and Germany very publicly rebuking Israel. So what does the NYT find newsworthy coming out of Israel today:
link to nytimes.com
This article is headlined Both Sides Claim Success as Diplomatic Row Wanes
About how Netanyahu has weathered the diplomatic storm with the US and will be greeted by Obama this week without having to make any concessions on expanding settlements in E. Jerusalem.
The paper of record seems to be trying to make the news, not report it and it might just work , as long as we all close our eyes and belieeeeve, it will become reality.
It’s not certain that Obama will meet Natanyahu.
Natanyahu would first have to go past Hilary.
If Aipac fucks with Hilary during their conference, Obama will not meet Natanyahu.
p.s. Is it me or is Hilary enjoying the spat with Natanyahu, you know, on account of him fucking around with the Clinton administration back in the day?
One hopes. It would be the one bright spot for me if Clintonesque arrogance actually works to the benefit of American safety and security, for once.
She sure kicked some yahu balls for Bill and for America.
I don’t know about you Chaos, but I’m really looking forward to Aipac’s shin-dig next week. Phil and Adam, I’m sure will get some cool coverage.
Taxi says It’s not certain that Obama will meet Natanyahu. I hope that is so but NYT piece I linked leaves the impression that it is more likely than not. The way I read this was their attempt to influence events.
And yes, I had the same impression — Hillary seemed to be grinning with glee while retelling how she twisted Neehoos balls. A little more of that and I might even start liking the lady.
The result of the next AIPAC shindig will be Obama saying (privately), “No, I can’t!” (curb the frisky little Israel):
link to counterpunch.org
Thus, he will follow in the long line of US presidents that got rolled by AIPAC’s whore congress.
Citizen,
Re: the Counterpunch link – very depressingly accurate history of Aipac and the institution of the White House. Yes Aipac has won every ‘crisis’ – every president who’s had the balls to confront them ended up getting shafted soft in public and hard behind closed doors.
But two brand new ingredients have recently been added to the humiliating mix which the article fails to take into consideration:
1- The military is vocally behind the President this time round therefore for the first time putting a stamp of ‘patriotism’ on the issue in the great mass-mind of middle-America (the epicenter where things always need to collectively be stirred before any big political change can happen in our nation). A super-power’s military’s, our military’s job is to constantly look tough and in charge and to consistently say to the world: ‘You might be able to fuck with our politicians on account of our open civic society, but you CAN’T fuck with us.’ Or, if you like, the military’s unspoken message to both friend and foe in the world is: ‘Don’t fuck with American power and pride’! In my mind this is a most significant addition.
2- The advent of the wide-spread use of the internet as modern source of news and information on history and international geo-politics, is also a new and very dynamic ingredient that’s been added. Even the proverbial ‘Joe and Mac’, indeed EVERYONE knows a little more this year than they did last year about a lot of things, including Aipac, Likud, Israel’s history, aid to Israel, the Goldstone report etc.
These two factors did not exist in any previous equation. They will make some kinda difference, I have no doubt – yet it’s too early to say how or to what extent. Even if Aipac wins this round, it would have still sustained a nasty black-eye that will not heal by next election’s. You’d better believe it, with the way things are going, our foreign aid to the middle east will be an issue at the next elections – something which Aipac has spent billions trying to keep off the election debate-table.
Never underestimate the power of ‘personal trust’ in matters of business and politics. More and more Americans are distrustful of Israel, and more and more Israelis are distrustful of America. Both sides now think they’re getting a bad deal from the other, despite the politicians insisting there is “no space between us and Israel.”
This will be proven in the next election when the military-block vote will shift away from any party that does not support their safety in the middle east. An interesting counter to zionist-christian voters?
Two points: 1. I thank Chomsky, despite his limitations, for having taught me how to read the NYT. The truth is often there, in the news articles at least if not in the analysis, it’s just buried at the end. If you’re too lazy to finish an article, as many people are, read the last few paragraphs first. You might actually learn a thing or two 2. The question is often asked, ‘well, what would the US do if it were attacked?’ My response: The US doesn’t go off half-cocked, bombing Mexico City because the Mexican police can’t control the drug gangs, battles amongst the gangs regularly resulting in American deaths by gunfire or overdose. Ostensibly we offer aid to the Mexican government to combat the problem, not send in a drone to kill the latest graduating class of federales.
Incredibly dumb. Your comparison doesn’t work. The proper comparison would be what would the US do if the Mexican government shot thousands of missiles and mortars at US border cities and towns?
Hey Julian, does that mean you supported the police men killings that took place in Gaza?
Julian supports any killing of Palestinians.
…After the United States razed hundreds of Mexican villages and displaced them with white European settlers? Why not carry your metaphor to its full conclusion.
Would that be after Mexico went to war against America and attempted to ethnically cleanse Americans?
“‘Would that be after Mexico went to war against America and attempted to ethnically cleanse Americans? ”
No that would be after America had invaded and already ethnically cleansed Mexico.
Ah! So for your example to make any sense, then, it would have to be Americans firing rockets into Mexico in retaliation for an ethnic cleansing, right?
And which war are you referring to, specifically? Just so I know we’re on the same page, here.
Thing is that you’re not addressing journalistic integrity. What makes the injustice of the Gaza siege and the Palestinian plight worse is the way it’s handled in the media. Whatever facts make Palestinians appear more human or as victims or which exonerate them in some way of blame often go unreported or are handled in a deceptive manner. In this case, the author starts by mentioning that the rocket came from “Hamas-controlled territory”, ahhh, but then fails to add until much later that Hamas did not fire this rocket. He is therefore manipulating the facts to create or sustain an existing bias. This is a truth that seems to conveniently escape you.
Israel used the rocket fire as an excuse for the Gaza Invasion but the truth is that Hamas was adhering to a truce made with Israel. During the 4 months prior to November when Israel broke the truce, there were 3 rockets per month in July, August and September and only 1 in October and Israel admitted none were fired by Hamas and instead of building on this positive, Israel broke the truce killing 6 Hamas members, provoking an end to the truce so that Kadima would have an excuse for to invade Gaza, which they assumed would be politically favorable for them, as they were lagging in the polls just before an election.
Deception equals complicity.
My previous comment is for “Julian”.
Missiles? What missiles? That’s a big word for such a meager weapon as the unguided qassam rocket.
Hey bright spark, how about we use the Warsaw Ghetto as a comparison instead? Or how about we drop comparisons altogether and think with our very own brains about the moral and legal aspects of what Israel is doing, and has done to the citizens of Gaza.
Dick Witty often refers to these rockets effect on Southern Israel as a bombardment.
Ideological rigidity, ethno-religious bias, etc.
Zionist Jews think alike when it comes down to the core issues of Israeli exceptionalism and how it relates to ‘the other’.
Shelling. As in repeated, for the purpose of scaring the people to leave.
Its good that Hamas is opposing the jihadi groups.
“Shelling. As in repeated, for the purpose of scaring the people to leave.”
As oposed to the purpose of killing civilians Witty?
Your talking assymetry here. An opportunist state vs an opportunist militia.
Which is the more opportunist? The revolutionary militia, as the state form is the international norm for accountability of international governance.
No Im talkimng wanton violence and human slaughter, at least in regards to Israel.
“‘The revolutionary militia, as the state form is the international norm for accountability of international governance. ”
That senetence isn’t even English. You always get tongue tied when you don’t have an answer.
Wrong Richard. If Israel is being shelled from Hamas’ territory Hamas is well aware it’s happening.
Hamas is simply a terrorist group however the left tries to redeem them.
Why do you hate brown people, Julian?
Funny you should bring that up, Witty.
link to en.wikipedia.org
“‘If Israel is being shelled from Hamas’ territory Hamas is well aware it’s happening.”‘
That’s like saying the government of Israel knew what Baruch Goldstein was up to befor he did it. After all, it was in Israeli controlled territory.
“‘Hamas is simply a terrorist group however the left tries to redeem them. “‘
So were teh Irgun and Stern Gang, and their leaders became Prime Ministers of Israel. Israel proved that terrorism pays.
And actually, Baruch Goldstein was American. So alternatively, by Julian’s crazy train of thought we were “well aware” that he was about to commit an act of mass slaughter.
The IDF is certainly “well aware” of settler terrorism, as the soldiers stand by and keep watch so the terrorists can do their evil deeds.
Thus the Palestinians are certainly justified in bombing Jerusalem or any other Israeli target in retaliation.
Gaza bank, TV station see US sanctions – 1 day ago
(CNN) — The US Treasury put a bank and a television station — both from Gaza — on its terrorist-financing list, saying they were controlled by Hamas, …
link to edition.cnn.com
FROM GRANT SMITH’S 2008 “DISSIDENT VOICE” ARTICLE: …AIPAC and its associated think tank, the Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), were instrumental in lobbying the president for the creation of the Office of Terrorism and Financial Intelligence unit early in 2004. The Israel lobby also vetted Stuart Levey who President Bush approved to lead the new unit. TFI claims to be “safeguarding the financial system against illicit use and combating rogue nations, terrorist facilitators, weapons of mass destruction (WMD) proliferators, money launderers, drug kingpins, and other national security threats.” However its actions—and more important, inactions—reveal it to be a sharp-edged tool forged principally to serve the Israel lobby.
TFI has taken no actions to undercut one nexus of money laundering in the Middle East unveiled in 2005 by Israeli prosecutor Talia Sasson and exposed by USA Today. Even mainstream print outlets such as Reuters continue to wonder aloud why US tax exemptions are offered for illegal overseas activities. Although Stuart Levey has made multiple official visits to Jerusalem to liaise with Israeli government officials, when formally asked under a Freedom of Information Act request to reveal how TFI was tackling the reported $50-$60 billion laundered from the US through Israel and into illegal West Bank settlements, TFI politely demurred [declined]. TFI claims that Levey’s US-taxpayer-funded missions to Israel must be kept secret from the American public in order to comply with the Bank Secrecy Act, which ironically is an anti-money-laundering law…
ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to dissidentvoice.org
yea.
and by helping to create Hamas and Hezbollah, Israel spreads the wisdom gained from its experience with Palestine and Lebanon. How generous of Israel.
hey Julian you know what tell your friends in TLV to allow Palestinians to own real weapons so they can defend themselves and i m sure they will kick out the IDF ass as Hezbollah did. BTW you are a fucking anti-semi but this time against Arabs who are semitic whether zionists like it or not.
hey julian did you read the latest from the westbank?
IDF killed 16 years old boy how coward you are guys really! link to haaretz.com
you know what i want to spit on your fucking fulthy face and all your likes asshole.
What did you expect, aparisian? Julian’s a neocon. He’s happy to send other people’s sons and daughters to die for his imperialist pipe dream, but do you suppose he would ever pick up a gun, or even drag his butt up out of the Lazy Boy recliner?
It’s no surprise that he doesn’t care less how many “brown people” die if he can’t even be bothered to care about what happens to lower-class white Americans.
“Why do you hate brown people, Julian?’
Now I get it. The Israelis are white people and the Arabs are dark skinned. The million odd Israelis that were evicted from Arab countries are what Honorary whites? How about the Ethiopian Jewish community what are they?
What country is Avigdor Lieberman from? Netanyahu’s parents? Livni’s? Where did Baruch Goldstein come from? Rahm Emmanuel? Orly Taitz? Need I go on?
Oh, how nice of you to bring up those Ethiopian Jews in Israel and how they are treated today.
And the Jews who were evicted… you would be referring to those that fled in the aftermath of such notable events as the Lavon affair and the bombing of a synagogue in Baghdad, both by Zionist European Jews?
“How about the Ethiopian Jewish community what are they? “‘
The ones that have been complaining bitterly about the racist treatment they are subjected to you mean?
Yes Shingo he also forgot that black jewish students are refused admission in some white jewish schools link to jewishtribalreview.org
The million odd Israelis that were evicted from Arab countries are what Honorary whites?
You can stick to your opinions, but that doesn’t make them facts.
Factually speaking, Jews were not evicted from Arab countries. In fact, in many places like Egypt, Iraq, Yemen Jews had to be persuaded by Zionist agency representatives to move to the Promised Land and in other cases they had to be terrorized into leaving by Israel itself, as was the case with the famous Lavon Affair.
Either way, this Israeli professor has a detailed article in which he explains the inaccuracies of claims such as yours:
link to haaretz.com
By the way, saying they were Israelis is inaccurate, as the Jews that left actually had citizenship in the Arab countries in which they were born and only later when they arrived in Israel did they become Israeli. You seem to confuse the two quite often.
“How about the Ethiopian Jewish community what are they? “‘
When they first arrived in Israel, I recall how the Israeli media made it a point to mention that the government was sending in representatives to teach the Ethiopian Jewish immigrants how to use toilets, how to flush etc..
It was so patronizing, so racist and so disgusting, that it was obvious from day one the Ethiopians were going to be treated like dirt. Then the government corralled them in Dimona in trailers. Israel just needed warm (Jewish) bodies for demographic reasons.
Factually speaking my ass Avi. This same nonsense is posted and reposted on Mondolies.
Hundreds of thousands of Jews left because they were forced out.
link to meforum.org
For a country by country narrative:
link to justiceforjews.com
Cite a scholarly source and not some bullshit ZioLulz website, yonira. ‘Mondo-lies’? You’re a dime a dozen racist loser. You HAPPEN TO BE Jewish, and you milk your identity day in and day out on this blog. But you’re just one of the ‘stupid’ Jews who live off of the success of others, and comodify it (Anna Baltzer/Nobel vs. painting stripes on animals in Gaza).
Fuck off back to FrontPageMag, trailer trash.
Hey Dick Witty thinks it’s ok that Palestinians were raped/tortured/murdered to incite fear, and thus the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. That’s when it’s ok to ‘shell’ civilians.
Who are you kidding, Liberal Zionist? You’re a Jewish supremacist and polite fascist.
They’re only shelling their old fields and villages, you know, so they can scare off the thieving murdering european invaders.
It’s very simple Julian.
They’re allowed to shell their own property when foreign squatters plant their asses in Palestinian couches.
I have yet to find an instance of Palestinians using a terror tactic that doesn’t have a Zionist precedent.
Compare and contrast, for instance, Qassam rockets to:
link to en.wikipedia.org
Read the footnotes Cliff, there were laws in place in several of these countries which were reminiscent of those which were enacted in Nazi Germany.
Why are you so angry dude, med school bringing you down? You are going to get yourself into trouble again on here, looking for another ban? You never did tell me what I said about Anna Baltzer either. As for the striped goats, get the fuck over it, you bring up these two things repeatedly (after calling me some sort of derogatory name, like a child.) You’ve said far worse things about Jews on here, but I think it’s silly to bring them up to try and prove something.
yonira: “OMFG TEH ARABS ARE ALL NAZIS!!!!11″
Ladies and gentlemen, yonira has officially jumped the shark.
Chaos, read some of the laws enacted by Iraq and Egypt, then get back to me, until then STFU.
Did you forget about suicide bombers?
how bout bashing in the skulls of children w/ the but of their rifles?
Oh gosh! I’ve seen pictures of children being attacked, that’s right.
Here they are. About half way down is where they start.
more decapitated babies Chaos? no thanks
What’s the matter? Truth hurt too much, yonira. Your people did that.
I have never said anything as racist and idiotic here as you. And thanks for proving my point, you little pissant. Threatening me w/ a ban, while you troll the blog and spout the most pathetic infantile insults such as ‘Mondolies’?
I haven’t been posting here lately because of exams and such. Med school is fine. Why would you even bring that up?
Tell me about yourself, Mr. Wanabe Jewish Exceptionalist. And I bring those things up because you’re trailer trash, who happens to be Jewish. You bank on that identity repeatedly without shame.
I did explain what you said about Baltzer, in detail and I recall you bowing out of the exchange. You seem to conveniently forget/disappear when you’re caught w/ nothing to say AND/OR cite some ZioWebsite as if it were gospel.
QQ more, jerk.
And if you wana Godwin the debate, we can talk about the forced labor camps the Zios subjected Palestinians to. We can talk about the massacres of entire villages, the rapes of women/girls in front of their parents. Killing pregnant women.
That’s not ‘reminiscent’ of Nazi behavior, it is Nazi behavior. Oh and this stuff still happens to an extent plus its lied about over and over.
Nah, it didn’t happen if a Jewish person did it, but if an Arab did it – it’s “reminiscent of Nazi behavior”.
Factually speaking my ass Avi. This same nonsense is posted and reposted on Mondolies.
Hundreds of thousands of Jews left because they were forced out.
You can’t tell your head from your ass anyway, so why use that phrase?
Apparently, you don’t know who professor Yehuda Shenhav is. I’m not surprised. You lack basic university education and you have no idea what you’re talking about. Besides, you’re not even Israeli, so you haven’t spoken to Israelis on a daily basis and heard what the older generation has to say about their immigrating to Israel from Arab countries. Those two “sources” you posted are garbage sources. There is nothing academic or scholarly about them.
Secondly, go back and watch the video posted by Phil on here a few days ago in which Israelis in Jaffa are interviewed, and one Moroccan Jew says that back in Morocco they like them and tell them you are always welcome here. Go watch it and read up on what another Israeli professor, Avi Shlaim — who incidentally is an Iraqi Jew — wrote about Iraq’s Jews and how they ended up in Israel.
Just do yourself a favor and stop making a complete fool of yourself and that’s putting it mildly.
Read the footnotes Cliff, there were laws in place in several of these countries which were reminiscent of those which were enacted in Nazi Germany.
Cite one example.
You ses, your problem is that you don’t read the information you are offered, instead you’ve got your head stuck up a horse’s ass and you refuse to accept anything that doesn’t mesh with your exceptionalism, that same exceptionalism on which you cling because in real life you’re a complete loser who has nothing to her name.
yonira, i recommend What do Palestinians and Arab-Jews Have in Common? by Yehouda Shenhav if you want to brush up on the trajectory of how and why those laws were put in place facilitating arab jews immigrating to israel.
Hamas isn’t ubiquitous. I doubt it can see all and be everywhere. Hamas probably see themselves as a militant resistance group. The ANC in South Africa targeted government locations but killed civilians at those locations, and they weren’t even dealing with the 4th largest military power on earth.
If Hamas maintains a truce and refrains from violent activity and Israel breaks the truce, then how can they put militancy aside? You simply keep avoiding the fact that Hamas did not fire this rocket.
Well, OK, Julian, but you assume the US is occupying Mexico, and corraling its people like cattle, and, by US government dictate, has been starving them of the basic needs of existence, and has been doing so for over 4 decades. Further, you assume that the US is using the full might of its superior military hardware against
the Mexican peasants. But that’s OK. We know where you are coming from.
You really need to study history. Prior to the intafadas there was no blockade. I travelled extensively all over the area.
Prior to the Nakba, Jews and Muslims and Christians all lived side by side in Palestine.
Your point being?
Chaos, you act like the Nakba was the Creation with nothing occurring previous to this. You should do some research prior to the Nakba, it would be good for you to broaden your horizons. If everyone was “living in harmony” why did the UN feel the need for Res 181?
hello girl how are you yoni?
you act like the Nakba was the Creation with nothing occurring previous to this
aha because Pals are supposed to tell the zionists terrorists thank you when they blew their market and buses from 1937? yoni yes i you should read history.
Are you refering to the King David Hotel bombing, yonira? Is that what I should read more about?
If someone were to tell you, “Get over the Holocaust, it doesn’t matter anymore,” what would your reaction be?
yonira has double standards, some are reserved for jews and others for goys. Sadly Pals happen to be goys.
And while we’re talking about UN 181, yonira, why did Israel reject it? Here’s a quote from non other than Menechim Begin, the day after UN 181 was passed.
He went on to become one of Israel’s Prime Ministers, you will recall.
Citizen? I need your help. I don’t suppose you have those links handy to the articles about Truman and the Zionist lobby? Yonira’s asking about UN 181 being pushed through and as I recall, those were pretty relevant. I regretfully did not bookmark them myself, as yet.
Chaos, don’t bother, he is a coward i m sure he won’t show up on this post soon.
Heh. I presume you are talking about yonira, aparisian? Because I wouldn’t characterize Citizen as a coward at all. :) But yeah, yonira just swoops in for these hit and run crap jobs and then flies off to whatever right-wing echo chamber he usually haunts. He already fled from an earlier conversation where he tried to justify his racist argument that Arab refugees do not have the same rights as Jewish ones.
yes chaos sure i meant yonira!
haha, now Israel rejected it. Jesus you are a dreamer Chaos. Instead of doing a google search, getting a quote, and then claiming it ‘proves’ everything. why don’t you get a better grip of the history. Begin had ZERO authority in 1947. The Jewish Agency accepted the resolution, and they were the people who had the authority to accept or deny it. He was still a fringe terrorist with a bounty on his head from MI5. He didn’t enter the realm of legitimate Israeli politics until following the War for Independence/Nakba in 1948. And it wasn’t until he was elected PM that himself or his Herut party ( the pre-cursor to Likud) would have had such authority.
I do congratulate you though Chaos, this could be the first time ever in the history of the conflict where someone brought up Menachem Begin to try and argue that Israel’s governing authority at the time didn’t accept the Partition Plan. That is a ballsy move, LOL!
I don’t get caught up in thread stealing arguments w/ you chaos because you bring nothing to the table.
My mother is a goy aparisian and so is my girlfriend(and hopefully the future mother of my Jewish children)
and what will happen the day you make Aliyah and your children get expelled out of Israel because they don’t have enough Jewish blood? I invite you to learn more about racist emigration laws?
aparisian, u don’t know shit about them either. You should brush up on your knowledge of the Law of Return.
As for Aliyah, I will not consider it until the current occupation is ended, so this is not a worry.
yonira, i know very well that the law of return is based on your jewish blood.
As for Aliyah, I will not consider it until the current occupation is ended, so this is not a worry.
You mean when Zionists drive out all the Pals from the land of Palestine?
Its based on the Nuremburg Laws and who would be persecuted as a Jew by the Nazis. See the Jewish Ancestry Amendment of 1970.
“would be persecuted as a Jew by the Nazis” does that include the non Jews persecuted by the Nazis? and at what price? who paid it?
Not wrong, yonira, but are you trying to suggest also that defining a Jew by
bloodline on the mother’s side especially is peculiar to Nazi law? The Nazis came late into that game.
I am not suggesting anything Citizen, I am just stating the facts. I am not sure what you are saying, but the maternal lineage rule of Judaism has always been a contested idea for me with a gentile mother (although I did convert and have a bar-mitzvah when I was older).
I think the maternal lineage came following the Rabbinic period of Judaism, i am not %100 sure of that though.
aparisian, what? read what you quoted, it should answer your question.
yes the question was why jews and only jews? and who pay the price?
And yet in a few scant years, he made a meteoric leap to the highest political office in Israel — “Eretz” or otherwise.
That’s Zionism for you.
Regarding Res 181, the Palestinians were COMPLETELY RIGHT to reject partition of their land. I don’t know what kind of business acumen you possess, but I could never agree to a deal where I give up 55% of my land so it can be given to a total stranger from a different homeland who’s pretending to be my distant cousin.
The Palestinians were being forced to accept 45% of Historic Palestine while the euro jews were being given 55% of the better and more arable lands – keep in mind that the Palestinian jews constituted 5.6 percent of the population in 1948.
Who in their right minds and dignity, who with children and aging parents would ever accept such a fucking lousy fucked up deal?
Not me.
Not you either yonira.
So quit the bullshit and face it – the birth of Israel was a huge and fucked up mistake. No one consulted or considered the Palestinian OR Arab voice in this. The holocaust-haunted world ignored their cries and protestations at the time.
And the world is still paying for that foolish and disrespectful exclusion.
Everyone thought by now the Palestinians would just poof magically go away. Well they didn’t and they’re staying and they’re making babies and peace and yes making bombs too.
It’s their right to resist occupation by any means possible and one day the tables will turn and they will have Israel by the balls and throat simultaneously.
What is down must come up and what is up must come down.
We live in interesting times indeed.
And anyway, it’s pretty clear that Israel did not accept the Palestinian partition. 78% of the land, over 500 villages and roughly half the native population expelled, demonstrates that pretty crystal clear. And that was just 1947-1948.
It’s their right to resist occupation by any means possible and one day the tables will turn and they will have Israel by the balls and throat simultaneously
not in our life time Taxi.
So it’s only OK when Jews do it, yonira? It’s only OK when Jews blow up hotels?
yonira,
This was an important element of the UN Partition Plan:
1. Citizenship Palestinian citizens residing in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem, as well as Arabs and Jews who, not holding Palestinian citizenship, reside in Palestine outside the City of Jerusalem shall, upon the recognition of independence, become citizens of the State in which they are resident and enjoy full civil and political rights. Persons over the age of eighteen years may opt, within one year from the date of recognition of independence of the State in which they reside, for citizenship of the other State, providing that no Arab residing in the area of the proposed Arab State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Jewish State and no Jew residing in the proposed Jewish State shall have the right to opt for citizenship in the proposed Arab State. The exercise of this right of option will be taken to include the wives and children under eighteen years of age of persons so opting.
link to yale.edu
Israel never accepted this integral part of the plan. The government STILL doesn’t accept it, because it would make all the Palestinians that were expelled from Israel citizens of the state. So, please, don’t pretend that Israel accepted the resolution. “Acceptance” does not mean, you get to “accept” the parts you like, i.e. a “Jewish State” but get to reject the ones you don’t like, such as full citizenship for those Palestinians who lived within the boundaries of the Jewish State, or even the boundaries of the Jewish State itself, which Israel never accepted. If you reject multiple parts of the plan, only the ignorant can claim that you instead “accepted” it.
Oh yeah baby in my lifetime too right you and I will see the ‘collapse’ of Israel! Could be a dirty bomb, a regional war, or it could be structural and internal, like a civil war, or a full-fledged morphing into an apartheid and failed state. All are on the table, but which one will activate first, no one knows.
Israel has no good times to look forward to, dear yonira. Think about it.
Even the CIA gave Israel 20 years – that was in 2006. They’re too generous if you ask me.
If I were you, yonira, I wouldn’t plan at all on moving to Israel, especially in the near future. A quick holiday in the next couple of years, sure – go see it while you can.
You and your honey can always try living in the Dakotas. The jewish god, who apparently is the owner of everywhere, lives there too. Same difference, right?
See, this is why I really need you guys to confront yonira. I can insult swordfight with him all day and all night but, admittedly, I lack the thoroughness and eloquence that someone like tree aptly demonstrates.
Good work, by the way.
Way to ignore the important part of his post.
The partition was unfair. Why should the Palestinians let Europeans decide for them? Why do they have to make way for a Jewish State? This Jewish State had something like 50% Palestinians in the population, did it not? Why did the Zios ethnically cleanse so many Arabs? If everything was such a lovefest and ‘the Jews’ wanted nothing more than to hold hands w/ the Palestinians, why was there an ethnic cleansing? Ben-Gurion goes on and on about this stuff and you’re making it seem like none of it happened. Typical f—–g liar.
The Zionists spoke often about how they were just biding time and soon all of Eretz Israel would belong to them, and yada yada yada.
Tree,
where are you getting your facts from? Your post of the UN resolution 181 verbatim doesn’t prove anything.
Where doe the 20% of Palestinians who chose to live in Israel, as Palestinian-Israelis fall into this? I don’t understand what you so eloquently have proven.
Taxi, I’ve lived in the Dakotas for over 2/3 rds of my life (evidently that makes me trailer trash) not sure I would bring my honey there to settle down.
It is not based on the Nuremberg Laws( although some apologists have used that excuse_ because it differs from the Nuremberg laws in its definition of who is a Jew. And the original Knesset law did not offer the expanded version that the 1970 amendment did, even though it was enacted in the post war era when the Nuremberg Laws were still fresh on people’s minds.
As Raul Hilberg pointed out, the task of explaining the laws and fully articulating them was left to the bureaucracy. On November 14, 1935, the RMI issued a supplement to the Nuremberg Laws of September 15, 1935, which created the racial categories of German, Jew, half-Jew (Jewish Mischling first degree), and quarter-Jew (Jewish Mischling second degree), each with its own regulations. Apparently, Hitler decided for the time being to keep half-Jews as such rather than treating them as full Jews. Full Jews had three to four Jewish grandparents. According to Hitler, when someone was more than 50 percent Jewish, he was beyond the point of saving and was evil (uebel). Half-Jews had two Jewish grandparents, and quarter-Jews had one Jewish grandparent. The Nazis had to resort to religious criteria to define these racial categories, ultimately determined by birth, baptismal, marriage, and death certificates. Often stored in churches and courthouses, these records indicated what religion one adhered to or had left. When a Mischling belonged to the Jewish religion or was married to a Jew, the Nazis counted him as a full Jew. Jews could only marry Jews or half-Jews, and half-Jews could only marry Jews or other half-Jews. Quarter-Jews could only marry Aryans, although in practice they experienced difficulties in doing so. Marriages between a Jew and an Aryan that had occurred before 1935 were called “privileged mixed marriages” and provided some protection for the Jewish spouse. Most Jews who survived the Holocaust in Germany were married to non-Jews. At the same time, Hitler allowed some Mischlinge to apply for exemptions under section 7 of the supplementary decrees of November 1935. In some cases, if Hitler approved, the Mischling was allowed to call himself or herself an Aryan./
link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org
And here is the Israeli ” Law of Return” as originally enacted by the the Knesset in 1950 and as it was amended in 1970:
link to knesset.gov.il
Notice that the expanded version of the law occurred in 1970, not in the law that was originally passed in which only a Jew by religion or anyone born to a Jewish mother is considered a Jew. The change in law in 1970 had little to do with the Nuremberg Laws, which it did not mirror, and had a very lot to do with the interest of the state of Israel to expand the number of Jews immigrating to Israel, which was being negatively impacted by the restrictions placed on those families that included non-Jews . Given the then recent capture of the occupied territories and the annexation of Jerusalem, Israel was critically interested in expanding their Jewish demographic base so as to counter the Palestinian ” demographic threat”.
Note too, that it was not until 2005 that the Israeli Supreme Court ruled that foreign converts to Reform and Conservative Judaism were allowed to utilize the right. Prior to that, any foreign convert had to be a convert to Orthodox Judaism in order to qualify under the right of return. This, of course, had nothing to do with the Nuremberg Laws, either, but was seen in Israel as an attempt to lessen the power of Orthodox Judaism over the question of “Who is a Jew?”
Good grief, yonira. I never thought you were so stupid. When your belief requires you to become stupid in order to believe, its time to give the belief up.
I got my facts from the VERBATIM UN Partition Plan (Resolution 181) which you claim that Israel accepted. Its quite clear that the Plan REQUIRED that all Arabs who resided in the area of Palestine that was to become the Jewish State were entitled to full citizenship rights in that State. Israel never accepted this, or else it would have never ethnically cleansed the Palestinians in 1948 and after, or at some later date would have allowed those Palestinians who fled or were expelled to return to their homes with full citizenship rights in Israel.
Where doe the 20% of Palestinians who chose to live in Israel, as Palestinian-Israelis fall into this?
Those were not the only ones who “chose” to live in Israel. They were the ones that were not forced to leave. Others chose to live there but were continually denied their rights to do so. Of those 150,000, its estimated by Israeli historians to include 50,ooo who were never forcibly removed from Israel, although they might have been forcibly removed from their homes. another 50,000 who were able to sneak past the Israeli “shoot to kill” orders and return to their homes, and 50,000 who were included in Israel when Jordan reached an agreement with Israel to cede some territory, with the Jordanian stipulation that the Palestinians in that territory must not be ethnically cleansed by Israel. They, along with their fellow Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed, deserved full citizenship rights under the UN Partition Plan, but instead a majority of them lost their lands and homes, becoming the Orwellian “present absentees, and they spent the first 18 years of Israel’s existence under martial law and military rule. They are still highly discriminated against in Israel. They have never had, up into this day, the full citizenship rights in Israel what were mandated in the UN Partition Plan.
I love the Dakotas, why not the Dakotas, especially that you have roots there?
You are a jew yonira and your girlfriend is native Indian – both of your ancestors were victims of genocide. So how can you both have the heart to just up and go take Palestinian land from their rightful owners (christian, jewish and moslem Palestinian)?
How can you both live on an inch of historic Palestine guilt-free while they live as refugees?
Both of you know that you can’t trace your bloodlines to Abraham.
Tree,
not sure what type of agreements you are accustomed to, but usually two parties agree on something and then execute the terms of the agreement. Never seen one side agree, the other disagree, and then the agreeing side still live up to their side of the agreement.
that is nonsense.
Taxi,
depends on which side of the Dakotas you are talking. I was on the boring side.
Also I don’t think we will be making Aliyah anytime soon, especially when Israel is occupying the Palestinians. I couldn’t do it until the issue is resolved, justly.
Perfect, yonira! That means you know exactly why it makes no sense to hold the Palestinians to the Oslo Accords. Israel has been in flagrant violation of those since Day One. Not to mention the atrocity that was Israel’s violation of the cease fire with Hamas, followed up shortly by a horrendous invasion that destroyed over a half dozen hospitals, hundreds of children and police officers, and even torched the UN relief supplies.
Hell, it seems to me like there’s no reason to call anything with Israel an “agreement.” Israel breaks her word pretty much every time. Right down to spitting on our shoes by breaking their own so-called settlement freeze!
Let me get this straight: you’ll live in liberated Palestine but not Israel?
Because you know the whole of Israel belongs to the Palestinians in the first place, right?
You understand that every inch of Israel is stolen land, right?
Well, to be fair, Zionists actually did originally pay for roughly 4% of it, I think. Although you can argue that, reasonably, this must now be forfeit to pay for the vast amounts that were stolen, as you say. Unless Zionists have some other prime piece of real estate to barter with (Manhattan? Miami? Washington DC?)
Wow great informative work tree! i love you guys because you teach me a lot of things about the Zionism and the racist terrorist state of Israel.
I agree Taxi!
Free Free Palestine! Free Free Palestine! Long live Palestine!
yonira, i used to think you were a mere manipulative hasbara tool. now i think you are a totally clueless hasbara tool. go read some books.
not sure what type of agreements you are accustomed to, but usually two parties agree on something and then execute the terms of the agreement. Never seen one side agree, the other disagree, and then the agreeing side still live up to their side of the agreement.
Yonira, that’s a silly grade school kind of argument. First off, we weren’t talking about an agreement, we were talking about a UN proposed Partition Plan. Israel claims to have accepted it, but it was neither satisfied with the amount of territory it was allotted, nor was it willing then (nor willing now) to live up to its acceptance of full civil and voting rights for the Palestinians who lived in the territory it claimed as its own. It started ethnically cleansing Palestinians within weeks of the proposed plan, well before any foreign Arab army entered Palestine(very little of the fighting with the Arab armies occurred on land that was designated for the Jewish State). Historical records from Ben-Gurion and others prove that they had planned the ethnic cleansing in advance, well prior to any physical conflict, and they all acknowledged that the only way that they could create a Jewish majority was by forcing the Palestinians to leave. They knew this before the Partition Plan, and they certainly knew that the Plan, with its Jewish State with 500,00 Jews, 400,ooo Arabs, and a separately counted 100,000 Bedouins, could never become a state favoring Jews and a democracy that respected the rights of the Palestinians. They wanted a state that favored Jews and disadvantaged Palestinians. To pretend otherwise is to forcibly dumb oneself down, in order to believe the unbelieveable.
Israel started the ethnic cleansing during a time when there were still negotiations going on in the UN and elsewhere over the conflict. Convincing the other side that Israel would respect the civil rights of the Palestinians was pointless, since Israel had shown no ability to even keep up a pretense of doing so even as it claimed “accepted” the plan.
On a side note, you’ve obviously never dealt with negotiations or agreements if you think that one side never keeps up its side of an agreement event if the other side violates it. Most of the time its called integrity.
If you want a pertinent example of this, the admission of Israel into the UN is a good one. Israel was granted admission into the UN on the condition that it respect and implement UN Resolution 193, which, among other things, called for “the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property”. Israel promised to do so, and was admitted into the UN. Of course, we all know that
Israel has done no such thing, for over 60 years now. Israel’s promise to the UN was the exact same thing as their “acceptance” of the Partition Plan, i.e. a big fat lie.
Tree you are not getting it. Why would Israel follow through w/ an agreement if the other party didn’t accept it.
Lets say I asked you to marry me, you say no, I am not going to act like we are married!
Why would Israel follow through w/ an agreement if the other party didn’t accept it.
Because the Israelis benefited immensely from the agreement while the other party was forced into dispossession.
“Why would Israel follow through w/ an agreement if the other party didn’t accept it.”
Ben Gurion told us why. He said that the Partition woudl serve to legitimize Israel in the eyes of the Un and the International community, but that :
“The acceptance of partition does not commit us to renounce Transjordan. One does not demand from anybody to give up his vision. We shall accept a state in the boundaries fixed today — but the boundaries of Zionist aspirations are the concerns of the Jewish people and no external factor will be able to limit them.” Ben-Gurion, Source: P. 53, “The Birth of Israel, 1987″ Simha Flapan
In fact, Ben Gurion, was quick to declare that UN’s Palestine partition resolution no longer held any moral force because the Arabs had violated it (even though they never acceptde it) and for Israel the resolution was “null and void” as far as Jerusalem was concerned. The Zionists needed a UN resolution as a birth certificate for their State and a second one to attain UN membership or the mark of the minimum in international respectability. Once they thought they had overcome all doubts about the legitimacy or viability of their State, they no longer needed the United Nations, currently the main source of international law. Israel has been condemned or censured by UN many hundreds of times for its lawlessness and for going back on its words but no leader in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem has ever betrayed any concern.
“Lets say I asked you to marry me, you say no, I am not going to act like we are married!”
You would if he was a multi millionaire and upon being married you have access to more than half his money and the local priest had the authority to marry you with or without his consent. After all, no one’s going to force you to give up your fortune once you get divorced.
Yonira. You aren’t getting it. We aren’t talking about an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. There was no agreement, and the Palestinians were never allowed to vote on what they wanted. We are talking about the UN Partition Plan, which Israel claims it accepted. But it didn’t really accept it because it never intended to give the Palestinians that lived in the designated Jewish State full civil rights and it always intended to ethnically cleanse enough Palestinians so as to give the Jews a sufficient majority to maintain a state that favored Jews at the expense of the Palestinians. The acceptance that Israel pretended to give was to the UN, not to the Palestinians. They didn’t claim that the would accept the UN Partition Plan if the Palestinians would. They said that they accepted the Plan, full stop. Israel got everything they wanted from the Plan, and more, and refused to live up to their agreement with the UN to treat the Palestinians as full citizens. They lied about their acceptance of the Partition Plan and they lied about their acceptance of Resolution 193.
And your analogy sucks, excuse the expression. You consider refusing to act like we are married is equivalent to violently ethnically cleansing people? If a judge asked if you promised to be a good neighbor to me if he put you in charge of the police force, and you said yes, but I objected, worried about whether you would be fair or not, and then you proceeded to attack me violently and force me out of my home, I think we can safely say that you were lying through your teeth when you made that promise to the judge, can we not?
And again, you are ignoring Israel’s lie about upholding Resolution 193. Israel was admitted to the UN, but failed to hold up its part of the bargain.
“. . . what would the US do if the Mexican government shot thousands of missiles and mortars at US border cities and towns?”
Probably not much if the rockets were ineffectual home-made devices that couldn’t be aimed and hardly ever hit anyone. It might also make a difference why they were shooting them. If it was a direct result of our having bulldozed their houses, occupied their land, arrested their young men and established an apartheid state, we would no doubt be perceptive enough to notice the cause and effect relationship between our actions and their response.
It’s an analogy Julian, but don’t let your feeblemindedness stop you from trying to make a point. Israel and Hamas had a working ceasefire according to Israeli government statistics, which Israel intentionally violated with the intent of continuing its punishment of Gazans for electing Hamas and destroying civil society. Now Israel and its propaganda arm blame Hamas for an attack it didn’t commit.
lift the blockade?
maybe that wasn’t clear. i’m guessing if the US had blockaded mexico and they started lobbing rockets into texas maybe we’d lift the blockade.
“‘The proper comparison would be what would the US do if the Mexican government shot thousands of missiles and mortars at US border cities and towns? ”
Is that before or after the US had bombed Mexico and blockaded them?
A better comparinson would be to ask what did Israel do the last time they were on the receiving end of a blockade?
Do you always blame the rape victim Julian for daring to fight back?
I would like to propose that we put together a petition to ban yonira for hijacking threads with incessant attempts to litter this website with lies and miserable propaganda that she keeps repeating despite being proven wrong time and time again, and for repeatedly personally attacking members on this website accusing them of lying without any concrete proof. It really is nothing but libel and it creates a negative atmosphere.
So, I put my name in the hat.
Avi,
libel? seriously Avi? Nothing like silencing those who oppose you huh?
Do what you have to do I guess, I’d like an update w/ your progress if you could be so generous.
Yonira, you’re too chicken shit to actually confront anybody who successfully brings down your arguments. Up there we did that, for example and then you fled to “OH! Well I’m from the Dakotas!” or some garbage like that. And before that it was the old “Arabs are Nazis” canard that you fled from.
For what it’s worth, I disagree with Avi. You are a perfect example of why Zionism is a corrupt and irrational ideology. Why get rid of you? Having you around makes it ten times easier to show Zionism as the racist, idiotic farce that it is.
Chaos imagine for a sec a country full of yonira likes? Israel has so many cases of chicken shit.
You are a fucking idiot Chaos. Learn how to read. Taxi brought up the Dakotas, and I tried to bring just a little civility to the thread by responding to him about my time there. And I said Arab laws pertaining the Jews, following the Nakba were reminiscent of Nazi Laws. How in the FUCK is that saying I said all Arabs were Nazis.
You are a douche-bag to the highest degree, you hate a whole group of people because of an online encounter you had with them, you are a sad human being, or avatar, or whatever you consider yourself in this world.
Israel? Aparisian, I think you underestimate how many people like yonira I have to deal with here in the US, just by leaving my house.
Oh indeed, yonira. And here we have another shining example of your “little” civility.
I tried to bring just a little civility to the thread
Civility for yonira means supporting Nazi like policies in Palestine, for ex: spraying goy school children with white phosphorus.
The BBC article on the rocket death contains a few facts missing from the NYT article.
link to news.bbc.co.uk
First is that the farm where the rocket landed is next to an IDF base, which calls into question what the unguided Qassam had been aimed at. Second is that while this is the first death caused by a Gaza rocket since the end of the Massacre a year ago, 88 Gazans have been killed by Israeli action in the same time period.
EIGHTY EIGHT. Those deaths were all reported on Page 3 of the New York Times weren’t they?
Good to know Shmud Thanks.
But in Israeli vocabulary soldiers are civilians so resisting against them is terrorism.
Reporters working in Israel are not allowed to report any rocket attacks on Israeli military bases and installations. I’m surprised the BBC mentioned it.
Does anyone else see the (slight) shift in tone of articles. The Israeli military press releases aren’t reported verbatim any more. Fair and balanced, no, but getting better.
Speaking of new balance, see this LA Times headline today:
“Israeli military kills Palestinian teen after fight over West Bank well”
link to latimes.com
Does anyone know what happened in the Human Rights Watch investigation into their Chief Military Analyst Marc Galasco and why HRW is keeping it secret?
On which wild-eyed conspiracy-laden neoconservative blog did you find that on? Feel free to link.
Does anyone know how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
According to “True Intellectual System of the Universe (1678)” they number in their thousands. Amazing, isn’t it?
Interesting, Julian. Any chance you could stay on point? I didn’t think so.
How do you know it exists if HRW is keeping it secret Jules?
Can someone pick up my ‘dry cleaning’ for me? (Atlanta area) I will be ever so grateful!
So come Julian, I think you have the answer and are anxious to tell us. Out with it.
He resigned as of early Feb 2010 i believe Julian.
So. How are you two doing on the quest for WMDs?
Chaos,
why do you keep repeating that? Does it make you chuckle when you are by yourself sitting in front of your PC? If so keep saying it be my guest, but if not it, repeating the same stupid thing over and over doesn’t really improve your standings. (I wouldn’t think anyways)
No, it doesn’t make me chuckle. People like you and Julian are responsible for the deaths of at least 4,000 American troops. Let alone well over a million innocent Iraqis.
yonira, Was that you I saw in the oval office bending the ear of George Bush? I thought it was Rumsfeld and Cheney, but in fact it was you and julian!
Keep snickering, you heartless bastards. Your day is coming.
LOL, WJ they never gave me any face time on camera (I have a face for radio) but feel free to hold me personally responsible for a war I was against and the actions of a president I would never vote for, it makes perfect sense in the world of Mondoweiss.
Chaos why so angry? have the Israelis taken over Star Trek online also(btw how is it? I was thinking of playing)?
Who exactly are we? I don’t know about Julian or WJ, but I haven’t voted for a Republican in my life, nor have my parents.
I was against the War in Iraq along w/ the way Israel dealt w/ Hamas in Gaza. I am against the occupation and the siege of Gaza.
What do you mean our day is coming? Are you threatening us? Will you execute this threat in a virtual or physical world? Perhaps we could settle this epic battle in a PvP tourney on WOW?
You guys keep proving to us that Zionism represents nothing more than a bastion for socially corrosive, anti-intellectual, militant, ethnocentric racists. I think I will enjoy seeing Jews reclaim Judaism from Zionism.
I have a good comparison, how about addressing the whining and sniveling Israeli government? They keep crying that they cannot control their settlers. When the fourth most powerful armed forces on the earth can control their settlers than we can worry about the rag tag and beaten down Hamas’s ability to control their rogue groups. OK?
SEE: Israel’s Attacks against Hamas Police Officers in Gaza:
A Case Study, By Katherine Iliopoulos, 06/08/09
By Katherine Iliopoulos
(EXCERPT) On December 27, 2008, the Israeli military fired a missile at a graduation parade for police cadets at the police headquarters in Gaza City, killing dozens of unarmed policemen. In the words of Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem:
“The attack on the main police building in Gaza killed, according to reports, forty-two Palestinians who were in a training course and were standing in formation at the time of the bombing. Participants in the course study first aid, handling of public disturbances, human rights, public-safety exercises, and so forth. Following the course, the police officers are assigned to various arms of the police force in Gaza responsible for maintaining public order”.
The attack marked the beginning of the three-week offensive known as Operation Cast Lead, which claimed the lives of more or less 1,000 Gazan civilians, depending on who is doing the counting. Much of the disparity in casualty figures stems from disagreement over whether the Hamas police should be characterised as civilians or combatants.
The Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) reported that a total of 255 civilian police force members who were not engaged in fighting were killed during the offensive, and included this number in the total of civilian casualties that resulted from the conflict….
ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to crimesofwar.org
P.S. THE ABOVE POST IS REGARDING: “So, basically, Israel went in, destroyed the Gaza police force, smashed everything to pieces, and now is holding the Hamas government responsible for everything that happens in every square inch of its territory.” – NORTH
I don’t often cite a Roland Emmerich film as a source for insight into the I/P conflict, but if you remember the scene in the big-budget sci-fi shlockfest Independence Day where the captive alien says what their invasion is after, it sorts of sums up what israel wants with regard to the Palestinians, just one thing: “Die”
RE: “There’s a disappointing story in the New York Times today about that fatal rocket attack on Israel yesterday…” – NORTH
SEE:‘Kassam rockets – Goldstone’s fault’, Jerusalem Post, 03/18/10
(EXCERPT)…Ayalon went on to refer to the Goldstone report, “this report is morally and professionally wrong. It grants terrorists impunity, aid and succor and tries to take away democracies’ right to self-defense…I call on anyone who supported the report to come see its repercussions on the ground.”
SOURCE – link to jpost.com
I’m just waiting for Israel to go balls-out and declare war on the UN itself. Clearly Israel hates everything the United Nations stands for, and it isn’t as if they’ve already committed the equivalent of acts of war against UN personnel.
They already did Chaos and that started in 1948 when they assassinated Folke Bernadotte link to en.wikipedia.org
History taught us something about Zionism, they are your friends till they get what they want, then they spit on your face and turn you their back, i have many examples:
- The British empire, who supported their project, when they got it, they turned back to the brits
- The UN gave them the partition resolution, and they killed Bernadotte and never respected its resolutions
- Recently what they did for Biden lol The US must learn this lol
And the USS Liberty
the USS Liberty was a UN ship now?
Seriously, Yonira, lay off the meth. Or whatever it is that’s popular among rural yokels these days for killing neurons. Obviously, you didn’t pay attention to the flow of the conversation from Israeli attacks on the UN (Bernadette, the observation post in southern Lebanon, various UN facilities and personnel in Gaza) to Great Britain (a whole slew of assassinations, the King James Hotel bombing, attacks on British and Palestinian civilians), to the US (various Palestinian-Americans, American activists, the USS Liberty, American interests damaged in the Lavon affair, etc.)
Or do you deny any of these happened?
”the USS Liberty was a UN ship now? ”
Good point Yoni. Had it been a UN ship, Israel would have finished it off and then blamed the UN for harboring terrorists.
Incidentally, the only reason Israel didn’t finish off the USS Liberty was because the Liberty’s communications capacity wasn’t completely decapitated. The crew were able to make patch repairs to an antenna and send out a distress call informing command (and the world) just who tried to sink an American naval ship, flying American colors, in international waters.
yonira worse the Zionists killed their fellow jews
November 25, 1940. In September, 1940, around 3,000 Jewish refugees from Vienna, Prague and Danzig were attempting to reach Palestine. In a convoy of four river steamers, they set sail down the Danube and reached the Romanian port of Tulcea where they transferred to three Greek cargo ships named Atlantic, Pacific and Milos. Conditions on board these three ships were horrendous, reminiscent of Japanese hell-ships later in the war. Eventually the ships reached Palestinian waters, but the British Colonial Office refused them permission to land. It was finally decided to deport the refugees to the island of Mauritius where a special camp was to be built. The three ships were then brought into Haifa harbour where the liner Patria was berthed. The refugees were then embarked on the Patria and as the last passengers from the Atlantic were coming on board, a tremendous explosion ripped the liner apart. The death toll amounted to 267 refugees killed. The explosion was the work of the Jewish underground army, the Haganah, who had meant only to damage the ship to prevent it sailing but had miscalculated the amount of explosives needed to disable the ship. Many say that this was no miscalculation and was deliberate murder of Jews by Jews, in an attempt to influence British immigration policy to Palestine.
do average Americans know about all this? Why Americans accept to submit while the master Israel is treating you so bad?
To this day the average American remians totally ignorant of the attack by
Israel on the USS Liberty. Initially this is because the crew was commanded
to remain silent, and not even tell their wives; this silence lasted a long time, and when finally they spoke up, nobody in government listened, and to this
day congress has refused to make inquiry. The MSM has been complicit
all along.
link to ifamericansknew.org
Articles online about the USS Liberty are continually hacked:
link to salem-news.com
The US evalulation (reported to Dean Rusk) of Israel’s official report on the USS Liberty contains
substantial discrepancies. The US report was kept from the American people
for political reasons and only surfaced way late under the Freedom Of Information Act:
link to ussliberty.org
Coverage of the attack on the USS Liberty by the MSM has persistently been
virtually nonexistent since 1967; the NYT especially has along simply buried its head in the sand. The only exception has been an article in the Chicago Tribune some fairly recent years ago. The Brits covered the incident more, and covered it way more honestly.
link to usmediaandisrael.com
Thanks for these valuable information Citizen. Apparently Pals are not the only victims of the Zionist barbarians! Their history of terrorism is far worse than Al Qaeda
Here is a simple, bulleted list of quotes, which can be read in a few minutes. It delineates
the overwhelming concensus of insiders that the attack on the USS was deliberate and the Israelis knew they were attacking a US ship with their
Air Force and Navy. The url contains many hyperlinks to the speakers and is a good tool if you run into hasbara agents who say only wacky conspiracy nuts
would say the attack was not an accident:
link to ussliberty.org
The incident and cover up of it is of major significance because in no other
case in US history has the US Navy acted as it did, basically simply buying
the attacker’s version of the event with full inquiry; similarly in every other similar naval incident the US Congress mounted a full inquiry–the USS Liberty is the sole exception.
From the way the US government handled the incident Israel deduced it would never be called to account in any meaningful way by the US; this of course
has proven true since 1967 right up to today. Israel also learned the US MSM would tow Israel’s line so that the average Americans would never
be significantly informed regarding Israeli activity.
Oops, I mean: “basically simply buying
the attacker’s version of the event WITHOUT full inquiry”
A couple of years ago I discussed the USS Liberty with a staffer for my
US House rep; she was the daughter of an immigrant family from Albania.
I discussed with her the updated findings reported in the Chicago Tribune article (the only paper to acknowledge those findings in the whole USA to my knowledge). She kept insisting the USS Liberty was not flying the US Flag.
Every crew member said the US flag was flying throughout the long Israeli lead up to the attack, and it flew throughout the attack except for a few minutes when the original flag flying was shot up and had to be quickly be replaced (with an even larger ceremonial US flag). The report to Dean Rusk clearly established the flag was flying despite the fact the Israel report lied, saying it was not.
Facts appear not to mean much to our government (or MSM) when it comes to anything involving Israel.
Slightly off topic here but some of my recent visits to Haaretz have prompted sudden red alerts from my Norton Securities – trojans that collect personal info and passwords etc.
Be careful out there folks.
We know the market for stolen foreign ID’s in Israel is wide and deep. We also know the levels of vindictiveness they’re capable of.
I wouldn’t put ANYTHING past these mothereffers.
Yeah, got the same warnings as well via Firefox, every now and then.
All of those “throw your money at Israel” ads that unfortunately pepper Haaretz are really starting to remind me of the scammers from the first Futurama movie. (Tried to find a good YouTube clip but no luck).
While we’re still off topic, chaos, can I also share with you a real irritant to me?
My spell-check always insists that zionism should be spelled with a capital z, while communism, capitalism, socialism, monarchism, anarchy, feudalism, and all other political ideologies do not require capitalization even though they are all political ideologies as is zionism. It’s so fucking annoying – what the fuck?!
Needless to say, I NEVER spell zionism capitalized.
I know it’s stupid, but I’ve been wanting to share this peculiar linguistic irritant with someone. Thanks for indulging me.
Yes, I have noticed that too recently. The first time it happened was about a year ago.
Well, there is one other political ideology that I always see capitalized, too…
Nazism.
I just tried typing ‘nazi’ and you’re right (again!) Chaos – my spell-check is red-underlining the word. Fucking creepy that is.
I probably didn’t notice before ’cause I hardly ever use the word nazi – maybe once or twice a year.
In all modesty, I tend to trample Godwin’s Law underfoot like dead leaves in autumn whenever expounding on Zionism. But it’s kind of hard for me not to — next to what happened after the US transformed itself from newly independent colonies to an expansionist, imperialistic power, I don’t see anything else that compares to what Zionism has wrought on the world. And I do think that the United States was redeemable up to a certain point in recent history, unlike the other two examples.
In the Azure-issue of spring 2000 (incidentally, ten years to the season) Michael B. Oren the USS Liberty case closed. It was “a string of failed communications, human errors, unfortunate coincidences and equipment failures on both the American and Israeli sides the kind of tragic, senseless mistake that is all too common in the thick of war”. His analysis is . It landed him a great new job. We are left with the small question exactly when he did drop his US passport. And a big question: is his job not to design another accident in a fog of war, that would lure the US in a Israel-based war?
1. Well, how do you like my first post here. For sure, this was not the nick I dreamt of.
2. My (misplaced) post relates to the USS Liberty, discussed nearby in this thread.
3. Link to Oren’s introduction in Azure, spring 2000:
4. Link to Oren’s piece:
Sorry for the inconvenience.
I’m convinced now that those many many meetings over weeks to discuss troop levels in Afghanistan laid the groundwork for this calculated US escalation against the israeli leadership … all the US ducks were in a row and we knew it was just a matter of time until Netanyahu committed another insult/violation against US policy and the Obama admin
Biden’s statement, Hillary’s phone call, “leak” by Perry of Petraeus linkage remarks, Axelrod Sunday show reiteration, and the ongoing pressure
I wonder if Rahm was at those meetings or just the national security staffers
Did we all know that it’s anti-semitic to point out that the NYT caters to a Jewish population in NYC?
Factually speaking, the NYT has two editions, one is for NY City and another for the national market. Does anyone know what the difference between the two happens to be? I’d sure like to know.
Your wish is my command Avi -
NYT GOES HYPERLOCAL
Your wish is my command Avi -
Please don’t do that. I’m melting and my head just got 30 cubic feet bigger. ;)
In all seriousness, thank you for the link. Much appreciated.
I watched too much Aladdin And His lamp hehe
Decades ago large publishing companies bought up a host of local grass roots papers across the US and substituted standard anemic national news by and large–it’s been very profitable for a handful of big publishing companies. Now, in an attempt to
retain print subscribers in the age of the internet, the big publishing companies are “going local”
more or less. NYT is only one example.
James North – Good catch. What you saw in this article would go over the head of almost every NYTimes reader, probably me too. It seems so obvious that actual responsibility for the rocket is more important than its supposedly “Hamas-controlled” nature, but you have to be actively on guard to notice this. My guess is that Kershner and co. did not conspire in a nefarious plot to distort and deceive, but that they just naturally look to assign blame front and center to Hamas and don’t even think they’re burying the more important fact. Of course, I could be wrong.
Typical NYT: Serving as the mouthpiece of Hasbara, more Zionist than the Israelis themselves.
With the original Thursday March 18 Times website headline, “Gaza Rocket Attack Into Israel Kills a Thai Worker,” as the subject, I sent the following to the Times public editor,
It is possible to get some information from the world media about the numbers of Palestinians Israel has killed in Gaza and the Palestinian side of the Green Line. Those Palestinian killings are not reported by the New York Times. At what level is the decision to not report those killings made at the Times? Would you explain the Times’ logic?
Let us know if you get a response, Les; if so, what it is.
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On CSPAN, 8:30 AM EST, Monday, March 22, tomorrow, Hillary will discuss US-Israel
relations, followed by the Big N himself!
The Big N will be live on CSPAN tomrrow evening. Now live on Cspan as I type is
Washington Journal call-ins regarding the future of US-Israeli peace talks, guest
is aaron david miller, fromer middle east negotiator.
He’s now with the Woodrow Wilson Center, as a public policy scholar. He seems to be pulling no punches in his objectivity. He has advised 6 assistant secretary of states.
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“The future mother of My Jewish Children” – Julian
Lady, run, run as fast as your high-arched Gentile feet can shapely ankles can carry you.
“My Jewish Children” cause you have a little knife which’ll make sure of that?
ROTFL! Hey, Julian, send us an invite and we’ll dance at your wedding.