In a post today, Alex Kane asked the question, 'Is another 'Cast Lead' in the offing?' I wanted to just add a couple of supplementary thoughts on the current "escalation" in Gaza.
Firstly, the AIC have published a useful article that includes a chronological summary of events in the last week or so:
On 16 March the Israeli air force attacked a Hamas training base near the former settlement of Netzarim. Two Hamas militants, Adana Eshtaiwi, 27 years old, and Ghassan Abu Amro, 25 years old, were killed in the attack, while a third person was injured.
While "the Israeli military claimed the strike was in response to a single mortar projectile launched from the Gaza Strip into southern Israel", the AIC observes that "no Palestinian faction claimed responsibility for the firing, and the Israeli press reported that the projectile was launched by a small, unknown organization."
This was a point reflected in a piece in Ha'aretz on 20 March. Avi Issacharoff and Amos Harel observed that the previous day's mortar fire was presented by Hamas as a response to the IDF's fatal strike against Hamas forces on 16 March, which in turn was said to have been "precipitated by a Qassam strike a few hours earlier". Then the two analysts wrote:
Hamas said - and to a certain extent justifiably - that Israel had exceeded the unwritten rules of the game. The Qassam had been fired by a marginal Palestinian group, and the accepted response would have been a bombing of empty Hamas offices or an escape tunnel without casualties.
So as Alex pointed out, the parallels are there, particularly in terms of both establishing an atmosphere of 'inevitability' about an assault as well as provoking Hamas into a response to create the PR-friendly casus belli (as in 2008).
Secondly, some have suggested that Hamas' mortar fire last week was designed to derail reconciliation efforts, or distract from March 15 protests. This is possible. However, it is also plausible that Netanyahu is seeking to stir up a 'cycle of violence' in Gaza/the south as a response to being pushed into a corner internationally, and facing numerous domestic political challenges.
And does it continue to be the case that no group has claimed responsibility for the bombing in Jerusalem this morning?
Hamas controls the Gaza strip. That is why they are targeted. Why were the Fogels or theJerusalemites on the bus today targeted?
Here is a list of attacks on Israel in 2011 alone:
link to en.wikipedia.org
Now apparently they are firing Phosphorous shells into Israel, where is your guys’ outrage?
link to ynetnews.com
Attacks from Gaza pale in comparison to what they were in the lead up to Caste Lead though, I think all White and Kane are doing is fear monger right now, trying to divert attention from Palestinian terror and ‘rally the troops.’
“Caste lead” is so appropriate. Jews as Brahmins and Palestinians as Untouchables.
Ynet doesn’t qualify as a news link. They are the settlers who claimed Jawaher abu rahmah was murdered in an honor killing.
Aren’t the hasbaradim out in force today ? I presume all leave has been cancelled.
Goldstone Goldstone Goldstone.
Attacks from Gaza pale in comparison to what they were in the lead up to Caste Lead though
yawn
The MFA report noted that Hamas was keeping to the truce. In the recent wave of leaked memos, Israel was described as being weary of this fact.
DBG, you’re going to have to come up with better hasbara. There is no comparison between the horror your side unleashes on Palestinians and what Palestinian terrorists do. Oh, and let’s not forgot, that there is an occupation. There is the on-going colonization of Palestinian land.
This is a colonial conflict, not Evil Arabs versus Holocaust Victims.
You are STEALING their land and to do this you occupy them entirely as a people. So what the F do you expect? That things are going to be sunshine and marshmallows? Do you think they hate you for your freedom?
Israel is keen to finish the ethnic cleansing it started in Operation Cast Lead. Time is running out for it to make the peace process a moot point by breaking the back of the Palestinians.
The bus incident has the makings of a false flag incident, whereby Israel gets the causus belli it thinks it needs to make Gaza uninhabitable. Perhaps it will be the final opportunity for the IDF to bomb its way into a Greater Israel before the full delegitimization of the nation.
Right Oscar, Israel blows up a bomb on it’s own people to have an excuse to go after Hamas.
“Israel blows up a bomb on it’s own people to have an excuse to go after Hamas.”
Sure. Why not? Do you not think that the same pigs who can kill thousands of innocent Palestinians in cold blood would have much moral problems with making a couple fellow Israelis take one for the team, so that the pigs can get back to their life’s work of killing Arabs? What was it that your compatriot said, that it was okay to commit a small evil in order to create your little ethno-supremicist state?
Hmm, Woody. Pigs? That’s exactly what the lunatics in Iran call us, so you and they are obviously like minded. Though the rest of the Arab/Muslim world calls us Sons of Pigs and Apes.
Which of course has nothing to do with Israeli soldiers writing on walls with their own feces. Nothing at all.
“That’s exactly what the lunatics in Iran call us, so you and they are obviously like minded.”
I once heard a Neo-Nazi use the word ‘The’ – therefore anyone that uses the word ‘The’ is obviously a Neo-Nazi
“Hmm, Woody. Pigs?”
Interesting, LLI, that you don’t bat an eye at the thousands of innocent Palestinians your government has murdered through the years, yet you get bent out of shape at your army leaders being called a name. Tells us pretty much all we need to know about the sense of justice and morality of the average israeli.
Spare us this nonsense. The Palestinians are lucky that it is Israel they face, and not one of their “Arab/Muslim brethren.” We have seen what they do to Palestinians when push comes to shove. (Jordan, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon just as an example)
You avoided the comment about how you and the rest of the anti-Israel crowd here parrot exactly what the mullahs of Iran say.
Regardless, I know very well that for you and Annie and Chaos and the rest of the bunch, this has nothing to do with the Palestinians. You and your kind could care less about them. It’s really about bashing Israel. I’m fine with that, it’s not new to us. The difference is that now, we are no longer ghetto Jews.
“The Palestinians are lucky that it is Israel they face”
Yeah, I’m sure they think this as they’re mopping up the blood of their children after you fucking people get done murdering them.
“You avoided the comment about how you and the rest of the anti-Israel crowd here parrot exactly what the mullahs of Iran say.”
No, I ignored it, because it was asinine. Or how about: Big deal, they called you pigs, too. I guess then, it’s conclusive: the whole world wants the Israelis to stop acting like pigs.
“Regardless, I know very well that for you and Annie and Chaos and the rest of the bunch, this has nothing to do with the Palestinians. You and your kind could care less about them. It’s really about bashing Israel.”
LOL. No, that’s just the pathological paranoia that is the defining characteristic of you Israelis. (Well, that, land theft and cold-blooded murder.)
“I’m fine with that, it’s not new to us. The difference is that now, we are no longer ghetto Jews.”
Do you not have any idea how pathetic (and paranoid) statements like this make you look?? Why morons like you can’t get it through your thick skulls is beyond me, so I’ll spell it out for you: Whatever happened to the Jews in the ghettos of Europe is of absolutely irrelevant to how the Jews in Palestine act; nothing that happended to Jews before excuses, in any way, the crimes against humanity that Israeli is committing today. Period.
I think you nailed it LLI, Arabs/Muslims are dying by the thousands right now in basically all the Arab countries surrounding Israel. But there isn’t a peep about their suffering, it is all about the 8 people who died in Gaza.
there isn’t a peep about their suffering
maybe you’ve missed the libya threads.
Yeah Annie, the last thread from 1 or 2 days ago got one comment. thanks for proving my point :)
“I think you nailed it LLI, Arabs/Muslims are dying by the thousands right now in basically all the Arab countries surrounding Israel. But there isn’t a peep about their suffering, it is all about the 8 people who died in Gaza.”
And there’s not much discussion about Antarctica, either. Sheesh, this is blog primarily about what’s going on in Palestine, notwithstanding the masthead.
i’m sure it also explains why there are 161 comments on this thread. besides, the thread you chose mentioned libya in the title but it was one of seham’s or kate’s list threads which generally don’t get lots of comments.
either way there are two libya post that just went up on the front page. maybe you should take your concerns over there instead of trying to divert the timeline thread with a typical ad hominem attack straight out of the israel action network’s (or was it the israel project) handbook for advising hasbaraists . boring.
Yeah, LLI, it’s absolutely *impossible* that it would be a false flag op. Israel is such a light among nations it would never in a million years create a false flag situation to justify bombing Palestine back to the Stone Age.
Oh, except for this situation:
link to en.wikipedia.org
LLI
That is nothing new, it has been done many times to give a reason for a war. (example: Harbour of Havanna, the start of Spanish-American war).
The Mossad would do even more drastic deeds if there was a need for it.
Here’s another more recent example of Israel attacking Jewish people in order to further the Zionist agenda
British Cov’t believed that:
Entebbe Hostage Crisis was manufactured by Israel
And here’s an older example of Zionists attacking Jewish people in order to further the Zionist agenda
link to en.wikipedia.org
I dont think it’s a false flag. But they are going to use this incident to incur the maximum retaliation against the nearest Palestinians.
PM says IDF has ‘iron will’ to defend Israel, apparently approves series of Gaza strikes
On Feb 28 Bibi said Israel couldn’t ignore international pressure over settlement construction.
link to haaretz.com
And now, que sorpresa, someone is murdered in Jerusalem and he’s talking about bombing Gaza.
It does seem to have come at an awfully convenient time, and there hasn’t been a bus bombing for several years.
And hard-line Zionists have always been quite prepared to risk – or spend – the lives of Jews for the sake of the Jewish State.
and this ‘Bus Bombing’ was different than the old ones carried out by Palestinians because instead of a ‘suicide-bomber’ someone just left a bomb in a bag at the bus stop – which is quite a bit like when that Mossad “trainee” was spotted as he planted a “fake” bomb under a vehicle in the Jerusalem, back in 2009
Huh. Any chance you could dig up a link to that last thing you mentioned, Hu Bris? For future reference.
here chaos
Please explain just what ethnic cleansing was started in Cast Lead. All Jews had been ethnically cleansed already from Gaza in 2005 by the Israeli government. No Palestinian land was taken at all. Of course hate Israel loonies largely just emote without thinking. Should we excuse your blunder on those grounds?
Obama has issued a statement in which he “condemn[s] in the strongest possible terms” the bombing in Jerusalem today and the rockets and mortars fired from Gaza in recent days, whereas he only “express[es his] deepest condolences for the deaths of Palestinian civilians in Gaza yesterday”, counterbalanced by his underscoring of the right of Israel, like all nations, to self-defense. No condemnation of the attack on Gaza.
Statement by the President on Bombing in Jerusalem:
Exactly. Hopey Changey is hopped up on the Zio-juice. “Israelis can defend themselves, Palestinians can’t,” he says, hoping to be re-elected…
we underscore that Israel, like all nations, has a right to self-defense.
I wonder if that means Obama thinks Libya has the right to attack the United States now?
“There is never any possible justification for terrorism. ”
What about you have 12 minutes to save New York city from a nuclear attack and the only way to stop it is to blow up Grand Central station with a car bomb ? Or else torture Malcolm Hoenlein.
These are the life and death decisions that Rudy Giuliani knows about.
“There is never any possible justification for terrorism.”
- Obama
Does this include acts of terrorism committed by American Revolutionaries as part of their war against the British Crown? You sound unpatriotic, Mr. President.
I think more to the point, does this include the repeated act of dropping bombs in Pakistani villages and killing scores of civilians?
I condemn the bus-stop bombing as immoral and never “necessary”.
I would like to think that Zio-supremacist “humanists” are out there right now informing Israel that:
- it should not undertake “belligerent reprisals” against the Palestinians because “the PRESENT is what matters”; and
- it should halt all of its aggression, oppression, theft, colonzation, destruction and murder.
But I don’t…because, in all likelihood, they aren’t.
One of the older tricks in the terror book. Set up or run an operation through a splinter group, then claim to have no connection to the attack. Arafat was a master at this.
Hamas has the ability to control everything in Gaza as we have seen. No one would be firing anything if Hamas didn’t want them to.
“Hamas has the ability to control everything in Gaza as we have seen. No one would be firing anything if Hamas didn’t want them to.”
Yeah, and the Israeli government controls everything in Israel. So if there is a bomb that goes off in Israel, the Israeli government must be responsible.
Yeah, and the Israeli government controls everything in Israel. So if there is a bomb that goes off in Israel, the Israeli government must be responsible.
Not only that, but the Israeli government controls Area C in the West Bank where the Fogels were killed. I’m sure he believes that the Israeli government is responsible for their deaths. Its the only logical thought consistent with his belief in state responsibility for everything that happens within its jurisdiction.
lli, Hamas has no superhuman abilities and does not have perfect control of Gaza. there are folks running around there without any commitment to the people of Gaza and far more intent on immediate trouble than Hamas.
in January, Yuval Diskin said that there were a few in AQ supporters in Gaza and that they were attacking the border despite Hamas’ order for quiet.
Hamas has the ability to control everything in Gaza”" as we have seen
80% of Gazans are dependent on food aid. That is what the Jewish state means in 2011.
it was a little better when the Gazans were working in Israel. might have been hardly more than half of them being fed by the US and Britain and the smaller donors to the UN. but that was then and the population of Gaza keeps growing despite all the lousy conditions, leaving more kids living on charity and with little hope for better.
No shit it was better for Gazans when they were second class citizens in the Israeli economy, fuster, rather than living in the world’s largest concentration camp, ever. I dare say it’s a lot easier to feed your family in almost any situation where tanks aren’t flattening your fields, snipers aren’t killing you and your sons while you’re working your fields and warships aren’t opening fire on your fishing boat.
But, you know, saying that is like saying it was a little better for Jews to have to walk the streets with yellow stars pinned to their jackets then when they were in concentration camps. And it carries just as much sincerity to say that, as to say what you’re saying.
they weren’t citizens, Chaos. you should have learned at least that much.
Oh, that’s right. To be citizens, they’d have to have owned property in… oh wait… they’d have to be born in… er… I guess that doesn’t work… they’d… have to… be… Jewish?
“they weren’t citizens, Chaos.”
Is he for real?
Tell that to the 20 percent of non-Jews living in Israel. I am sure they’d like a good laugh.
I’m afraid so, Mooser. It’s pretty sick, isn’t? “See! We made a Jewish democracy! By making sure most of the non-Jews have no rights whatsoever!” And of course it makes perfect sense for Palestinians to be treated like shit, to fuster. Noticed how the whole citizenship question was the only thing in that whole litany that bothered him? Not the part about how they had a substandard living even before Concentration Camp Gaza. Not the fact that those conditions are enforced by Israel. Just, “Wait a minute! How dare you imply these non-Jews are Israelis! Why, that’s just wrong!”
Is that before or after they get a whole order of magnitude less funding for education and public services than the priveleged Jewish uber-class in Israel, DBG? When are they going to have a good chuckle about it? Before or after Israel razes their village for the twelfth time?
I don’t think anyone living in an apartheid state would laugh about it DGB.
Mooser, OT, but I think you’ll like this.
A rabbi says that God is punishing the Japanese for prosecuting some Hasidim for drug smuggling.
link to revoltoftheplebs.com
See! God does still care about Jews.
It works great for Israelis, after all! See also: Lavon Affair, AIPAC espionage scandal.
Hamas controls its own actions. Stop rationalizing for them.
There was a terror attack in Jerusalem today. I don’t know if anyone claimed credit for it.
Good thing? Justifiable?
“There was a terror attack in Jerusalem today. I don’t know if anyone claimed credit for it.”
And there’ve been terror attacks against the Gazan people all week, and the Isralis have taken credit for them.
And there’ve been terror attacks against the Gazan people all week, and the Isralis have taken credit for them.
don’t forget the collective punishment in awarta after the murders. soldiers defecating all over the place and forced dna tests and hundred of homes invaded and men rounded up and then the purim attacks.
—Good thing? Justifiable?—-
perhaps understandable if it was an ultra-Orthodox woman who couldn’t take any more ill-treatment, but not really good or justified.
perhaps understandable if it was an ultra-Orthodox woman who couldn’t take any more ill-treatment
that is an interesting response. do you think ultra-Orthodox women are the most repressed or ill-treated people in the region?
annie, as freud said while coughing over his cigar, sometimes a choke is just a choke.
I was not being serious about that.forgive the dark humor.
And, I might add, a joke in very poor taste. Typical of you.
Over 20% of the Israeli population are Arabs who possess the sorts of political rights that people in Egypt and Tunisia and perhaps Libya have been fighting and dying to possess.
Really? The right to be fined for commemorating the tradgedy that cost half the original population of Palestine their homes and their property (and in many cases their lives)? The right to be kicked out of Jews-only gated communities? The right to have their villages demolished to make way for Jewish immigrants? The right to have their businesses confiscated and kicked out of Jerusalem whenever it suits the whims of the police state? The right to have the state dictate who they can and can’t marry based on religion (and specifically excluding non-Jews in the occupied territory)?
Wow, really?
I don’t thin anyone in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya is fighting for apartheid.
Probably not- they would like to acquire the democratic freedoms of Israel instead. Surveys even of Palestinian Arabs show they would like any new state to emulate Israel in this regard.
No, they just don’t want to leave their homes.
You know, it’s really disgusting how, because you feel like you need something to balance out your rejoicing whenever there’s an orgy of air strikes on hospitals and grade schools by the IDF, you feel the need to slander us and make us look like we’re just as bloodthirsty as you are.
The only one trying to justify violence against civilians is YOU, Witty. Like you did during Operation Cast Lead and like you did in the aftermath of the deaths on the Mavi Marmara. The only supporter of terrorism around here is you and people who share your warped theology.
I agree Chaos,
If Hamas is behind this, then they need to go. They’re becomming as self destructive as Likud.
“There was a terror attack in Jerusalem today. I don’t know if anyone claimed credit for it.
Good thing? Justifiable?”
No. No.
Why do you ask?
Donald: Richard lives at Mondoweiss (5286 comments in 2010). Has he ever seen anyone, ever, at this site say that placing bombs to attack Israeli civilians is “a good thing?”
So why does he ask? I suggest that once again he is hiding from his own conscience. Instead of looking at the timeline of Israeli violent provocation, or instead of going to the Haaretz site to urge Israelis to show restraint, he raises pointless, nasty questions.
He makes noise to silence that still, small voice within him.
James, we get it you don’t like RW. but you are now repeating yourself and your vendetta against him is getting way to childish.
DBG, we get that you want to do everything except talk about the civilians that Israel is slaughtering by the dozens right now, right as we type (just like Witty does)…. but we don’t really care.
You’re just yet another Israel-first war crimes apologizing Arab-hating fanatic. What do you think that credibility actually buys you, DBG?
Chaos, if you continue to slander me I will email Phil and Adam on every offense.
Far more credibility than a hate Israel loonie who can barely find Israel on a map of the Middle East like you enjoys!
Go right ahead, DBG. Go right ahead.
Most Israeli critics know far more about Israel than it’s supporters, which is why the supporters are so poorly educated.
>> There was a terror attack in Jerusalem today.
You left out the part where you inform Israel that:
- it should not undertake “belligerent reprisals” against the Palestinians because “the PRESENT is what matters”; and
- it should halt all of its aggression, oppression, theft, colonzation, destruction and murder.
The nature of the type of “arrangement” that Israel has with Hamas is that there is periodic testing of the other side. It seems to me that this is the nature of a nongovernment government that Hamas personifies and a state that “lives by the sword” as Israel sees itself.
Neither Hamas nor Netanyahu have anything positive to add to the mix at this time of turmoil and nature abhors a vacuum so conflict is natural at this time. On the other hand I highly doubt Israel is up to anything comparable to Cast Lead. At this time of regional instability it would seem like a reckless act and Netanyahu has never fought anything that could be defined as a war and I don’t see him starting now at this time of regional turmoil before an election. (Netanyahu is more than halfway through his term based on the average length of term of Knesset in recent years.)
Never mind that Hamas has shown it can enforce cease fires, whereas Israel can’t.
Israel has not kept many cease fires with Hamas, this is true. But I think there is more than one party to blame for the current tension and it seems simpler just to put all the onus on Israel. I think that is simplification and ultimately not the truth. I don’t think a cast lead is in the cards. They seem to be playing a type of game of chicken and it takes two to tango, so I think simply ignoring Hamas’s thoughts or strategies at this time, is a way of avoiding a deeper analysis than just: blame Israel.
Many? Many? And How Do Ceasefires End?
If nine times out of ten, the armed robber is the one who shot dead the unwitting passerby, and on the tenth time the armed robber got shot because his victim was armed? I’m still going to blame the armed robber.
>> But I think there is more than one party to blame for the current tension and it seems simpler just to put all the onus on Israel.
Just like that. It “seems simpler” to blame Israel.
It has absolutely nothing to do with Israel’s past and ON-GOING campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder. Which it can halt immediately, completely and forever…but which it chooses not to.
Or – as exposed in the Palestine Papers – Israel’s unwillingness to engage in sincere negotiations for a just and mutually beneficial peace.
No, it couldn’t have anything to do with any of that.
If you’re focus is giving out blame, your argument seems valid, i might argue or not, but that is not the point. The point is that sometimes a deeper understanding of the dynamic can yield a deeper understanding of the causes and effects and improve one’s knowledge and ability to predict. Assessing blame is good if all you want to be is a judge. I would like to understand and be able to predict. These are more elusive goals and are furthered by comments that deepen understanding.
wj, “If you’re focus is giving out blame”
as opposed to neutralizing all criticism of israel by drumming the ‘both sides’ theory (more than one party to blame….simpler just to put all the onus on Israel………takes two to tango…….avoiding a deeper analysis than just: blame Israel)
establishing a timeline gives one the tools to judge who is instigating what. who has something to gain by this recent escalation of violence? israel is the much stronger party here and anyone contesting that would be a fool. they represent the power hands down. one doesn’t need to pretend hamas is as innocent as a new born babe to understand that. it’s a diversion to cast the spotlight on us by claiming we’re ‘ just blame Israel’. we’re being realistic.
israel’s playing a very tough game w/it’s pr and it’s seen in the worst possible light of public opinion possibly since the inception of the state. try examining how israel is addressing that? the reut institute report claimed this ‘deligitimization’ (which is actually exposure of events creating counter narrative) is as dangerous to the state as a military threat. so how is isreal dealing with that threat vs what options it has. is there any evidence israel is changing it’s behavior? any? policy? any? not that i can see. it continues to expand. the MO of israel seems to be to direct our attention on palestinian actions. now what happens when israel’s biggest targets are non violent protesters in bilin?
israel has chosen a pr path as a line of defense and that path is much much easier when it can say pizza. when it can say ‘both sides’ when it can say sderot. there’s motive and there’s evidence with no compelling reason to dismiss it and there appears to be NOTHING on israel agenda going forward to replace it. no evidence of any kind of peace plan, nothing.
what became glaringly obvious at oren’s recent appearance @ maher’s show is him just repeating the same old lies. nothing new. nothing. and just as last year bibi used some hasbara centerpiece to frame his aipac message he will do so this year.
>> Assessing blame is good if all you want to be is a judge. I would like to understand and be able to predict. These are more elusive goals and are furthered by comments that deepen understanding.
It’s not about assessing blame, it’s about eliminating (or, at the very least, minimizing) the potential causes for strife. The obvious problems need to be addressed and resolved BEFORE anyone sits back to indulge in mental masturbation.
Israel continues to engage in aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder – all of which are illegal and immoral, all of which do nothing but generate strife, hatred and retaliation. Stop it, all of it, now.
Israel refuses to engage in sincere negotiations for a just and equitable peace. Start negotiating sincerely and working toward a just and equitable peace, now.
When the first has been halted and the second initiated, then the thinkers can feel free to deepen their elusive understandings.
If this comments section is to be a cheerleading squad for the anti Israel cause, eljay and annie, I would say that you are doing a fair job. If you are attempting to engage in an exchange of ideas, then i would say that you are doing a poor to mediocre job.
>> If this comments section is to be a cheerleading squad for the anti Israel cause, eljay and annie, I would say that you are doing a fair job. If you are attempting to engage in an exchange of ideas, then i would say that you are doing a poor to mediocre job.
I’m all for a pleasant exchange of ideas once the obvious issues – at the very least – have been addressed and resolved.
Why do you object to Israel immediately and completely halting all aggression, oppression, theft, colonzation, destruction and murder?
Why do you object to Israel immediately engaging in sincere negotiations for a mutual and beneficial peace?
Why do you want Palestinians to continue suffering while you indulge in “profound thinking”?
If anything, the Palestine Papers showed that the Israeli government of the time was indeed engaged in sincere negotiations. But the Israeli people have now been overwhelmingly impressed that the Palestinian side was willing to let overwhelmingly Jewish neighborhoods in western Jerusalem remain Jewish neighborhoods but concede little else of significance. They have also not been too impressed that the Palestinians immediately tried to deny they had made even these limited concessions or that the Palestinian side has made no attempt to prepare their population for a realistic peace settlement with Israel.
WJ, I don’t consider you to be an honest person.
Do you have a problem with non-Jews? How can you look at eee’s posts or Richard Witty’s posts or any of the other Zionists here and tell me they want an honest exchange of ideas?
Then again, you’re no different. Do you have any non-Jewish friends? What do you talk about? Do you dump your baggage on them too?
Can you imagine a person like eee having non-Jewish friends who are fully aware of his politics and his intellectualism?
What about Richard Witty? What if someone knew to the full extent, on this blog, how many times Witty has been dishonest, weasel-like, etc.?
It’s not all about politics. It’s about sincerity. And at the core of it is – do you think Palestinians have to make way for a Jewish State? That land was not empty. There were people there. The Nakba was real and Israel is responsible. It hasn’t ended. It’s on-going.
So LOOK for sympathy elsewhere.
I definitely want an honest exchange of ideas.
I am looking for something that isn’t a repetition of old rationalizations.
Your last paragraph is an indication that you are not interested in something new, but only a repetition.
Palestinians do have to make room for a Jewish state, as democracy compels it.
If the people voted for parties advocating a single state, then there would emerge one. Israelis don’t. Palestinians don’t.
Witty, sweetie? Look in the mirror. That’s where you’ll find the ultimate source of them.
Still waiting for something new Chaos.
problem is Witty, you won’t recognise it when you see it, you have already missed it in fact
Witty, the last time something new came out of your mouth, moving pictures had just went “talkie.”
I definitely want an honest exchange of ideas.
No you don’t. I specifically asked you to cite from W&M’s article on the Israel Lobby to support your claim that it was…
“a polemic, blameful, exagerated, careless to consistently distinguish between the fascistic themes of ‘no Jew should be allowed near a president’ and the acknowledgement that ‘AIPAC undertakes legal and rational but partisan lobbying efforts’.
Here’s link for you again.
link to lrb.co.uk
I’m NOT asking you to reword your impressions as you did in that thread. To quote you back at yourself: “I am looking for something that isn’t a repetition of old rationalizations.”
I’m asking you to cite the SPECIFIC QUOTES from W& M that you believe support your impression, or that you believe led you to your impression.
If you are willing to spend the modicum amount of time it would require to do this, then it might be conceivable that you have at least a small interest in an exchange of ideas.
Palestinians do have to make room for a Jewish state, as democracy compels it.
This is just another reprehensible justification for ethnic cleansing.
eljay- You want me to clarify my stand on certain issues? Sure.
Okay. I will try to clarify my differences from the current government of Israel. I would halt settlement building in order to engage in negotiation. Although because there is a Hamas and a Fatah, such negotiation at this time just with Fatah would be questionable. But I would encourage Hamas and Fatah to get a negotiating team together and I would see if I could arrive at some negotiated peace with them.
If I could brainwash (Israel) the country to think like me I would advocate as a first step a policy of buying out settlers, so that they can return inside the green line or at least into the settlements that would have gone to Israel according to the Palestine papers.
I have no desire for the Palestinians to continue suffering at this point.
Clear enough or not?
Cliff- I think you are way off base. It is true that I do not attempt to engage Zionists on this site. This is a site and a comments section dominated by antiZionists, so I am attempting to engage in “discussion” with the gist of this site rather than my fellow dissidents. If I need to clarify my position, then I will. My position is not perfect, but I attempt honesty. Sometimes I react emotionally and to a large degree my position is a construction of ideas based upon feelings. But i try to be honest.
Sure Reuven,
I’m sure when they said no to everythign the PA offered, they were being very sincere.
So was Livni apparently. She said thank you, but then said NO.
So which is Reuven? Are the concession overwhelming or are they limited? And since does it matter what the Israelia are impresed with?
Still waiting for your lies and diatribes to end Witty.
>> eljay- You want me to clarify my stand on certain issues? Sure.
>> … I would halt settlement building in order to engage in negotiation. … I would encourage Hamas and Fatah to get a negotiating team together and I would see if I could arrive at some negotiated peace with them.
>> If I could … I would advocate as a first step a policy of buying out settlers, so that they can return inside the green line or at least into the settlements that would have gone to Israel according to the Palestine papers.
>> I have no desire for the Palestinians to continue suffering at this point.
>> Clear enough or not?
Yup, nice and clear. Thanks. :-)
And, while your actions don’t go as far as mine – at least in terms of compelling an end to Israeli aggression, land and resources theft, et cetera – welcome to the “cheerleading squad”. ;-)
Sincere in their rejectionism of any deal.
Well in fact Hamas cannot enforce cease fires- but they just blame the attacks on some alleged dissident group that in a territory as small as Gaza they are totally unable to control.
So let me get this straight: unless Hamas runs Gaza as a complete and utter police state and prevents everyone (even, say, Israeli agents…) from firing rockets from Gaza, it’s to the proverbial gallows with their children as far as you’re concerned?
Was Israel able to control baruch Goldstein Reuven?
Leaving aside what Israel’s response should be, there are questions that a good reporter might inform us: What efforts is Hamas making to stop the mortar rockets from other groups? Does Hamas act like a police state vis a vis known members of Fatah, but not towards known members of Islamic Jihad? What are Hamas’s priorities right now?
Those questions were ALREADY answered, WJ. When Hamas was at optimal enforcement of the ceasefire, the rocket attacks dropped to three rocket attacks a month. In fact for most of the months of the cease fire, there was one rocket attack each.
Need I remind you? You Zionists keep bitching that I keep repeating myself, but then you keep acting like this is new information EVERY SINGLE TIME you force me to repeat it.
Do you want peace, WJ? Then stop slaughtering Palestinian civilians with the full might of your military. It really is demonstrably that simple.
Netanyahu has never fought anything that could be defined as a war and I don’t see him starting now at this time of regional turmoil before an election
From Bennie’s p.o.v., just before an election is the perfect time to go and cold-bloodedly murder the children, grandparents, mothers and fathers of the mostly defenceless native population (or ‘start a war’ as you prefer to call it)
There is in fact no election coming up in Israel. And there will be no elections coming up in Hamastan because there will be no more elections in that paragon of democracy and freedom (g).
“Hamastan?” Really? Isn’t that as bad as calling Israel “Kikesburg?”
Remind me again, why is that level of racism tolerated here?
Because jewish jihadism is part of the ugly face and (stolen) landscape of zionism?
because every time they open their stupid big fat racist mouths the Zio-trolls discredit themselves and any claim that Zionism has of being ‘humane’ –
Mondoweiss’ policy of letting them hang themselves by their own words is an excellent on IMHO -
Emailed Phil again on that one Chaos. So you find it racist that there are countries called:
Pakistan, Afghanistan,Turkministan, Kurdistan, etc. etc. etc.
link to worldnews.about.com
Hu Bris,
Kinda like how you blame everything stubbed toe in Israel on a Mossad false flag operation?
It’s called Palestine. Name an Arab country that ends with the -stan prefix. Or do brown Middle Eastern people really all look the same to Israelis?
You mean like this, DBG?
LOL, what does that even prove? Israel trains their operatives? BTW Hu Bris needs to get that linked updated in your manual, that is GOLDEN. HAHAHAHAHAHA.
did you read the story? No idea how that is even related. you guys are stretching lately. it is getting sad.
Really? And you think training people to plant bombs on civilian vehicles is perfectly normal in the civilized world?
I love it how the “secret word” of the day is “manual.” You can just picture how that must be in the new edition of “Hasbara for Dummies,” right?
You’re such an idiot DBG – your silly false laughter is fooling no one, and is merely a sign of your desperation. Zio-trolls like you are seriously worried that people are cottoning-on to Israeli False-flag operations, hence your sad attempt at ridicule.
People are waking up to how Mossad operates.
Even inside Israel they are beginning to have suspicions about how maybe this bus bombing is not the work of Hamas
Hamas not likely behind Jerusalem bombing – By Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff @ Haaretz
Excellent link Hu Bris,
Such a report woudl have been unthinkable until recently.
what is the report proving? they don’t think Hamas did it? I don’t think Hamas did it either. It has Islamic Jihad written all over it.
Heck Hamas and Fatah can’t even control their own military wings right now, let alone the other militant groups. I can’t guarantee you dolts that the Haaretz article wasn’t eluding to a false flag operation.
Pakistan is not called Pashtunistan,
Afghanistan is not called Talabinastan
What are their military wings doing that sugegsts they are out of control?
You can can you? Do youreally think anyone gives any credibility to your guarantee?
You’re starting to sound like Witty.
Give Witty some credit. He doesn’t write like a six year old, at least.
Good point Chaos,
Witty has teh opposite problem. Witty’s comments can best be described as one senior moment after another.
DBG – “I don’t think Hamas did it either. It has Islamic Jihad written all over it.”
now you’re just picking names of ‘Not-Hamas’ organisations at random, aintcha? That bomb had none of the hallmarks of an Islamic jihad operation, you dolt.
“I can’t [sic] guarantee you dolts that the Haaretz article wasn’t eluding to a false flag operation.”
You’re such a blithering imbecile – the second sentence in that report, in the sub-head, actually plainly says
then the authors say
this is to drive home the point, even to blithering imbeciles, that this was most likely not Hamas – nor was it Islamic Jihad, nor do they even hint it was Islamic Jihad, and a person would have to be a complete moron to read that into what they said. [Step forward DBG]
lastly they say:
well. . . .let me put it this way for you, DBG – Islamic Jihad are definitely not considered a ‘local’ Jerusalem/Israel-based organisation
So who does that leave?
They’re hardly gonna come right out and point the finger straight at Mossad, they want to keep their jobs after all.
Whatever you say Hu Bris, we’ll get all the evidence, arrests, etc. It will be someone from the IJ and you’ll still deny it saying it was a false flag. Arguing with you is pointless, reality and truth don’t concern you you are an agent of disinformation. What is sad is the majority of the commenters here just eat it up. Chaos is now saying that Israel is firing missiles from Gaza into Israel, at itself. Sheeple.
Reuven- Regarding the nearness of Israeli elections- in the US, the day after the midterm elections is considered the beginning of the next electoral season- the presidential election. I am willing to wager that it is more than halfway between the election of the current Knesset and the next elections in Israel, although because it is unfixed it is not at a specific date like in the US.
Sorry, posted in the wrong spot.
“Whatever you say Hu Bris, we’ll get all the evidence, arrests, etc. It will be someone from the IJ and you’ll still deny it saying it was a false flag.”
Do you think that an Israeli prosecution has any credibility? If they bring in an international team of neutrals (unlike the Zionists-are-us panel they put together to mimic Netanyahu’s excuse for the Israeli pirates’ murder of the members of the flotilla), then perhaps such a finding might be credible. As it is, any finding has to be presumed political and disregarded as such.
DBG – “Whatever you say Hu Bris, we’ll get all the evidence, arrests, etc. It will be someone from the IJ and you’ll still deny it saying it was a false flag.””
As usual you are just making stuff up, like all Zio-trolls – for example despite the assurances of you and your fellow Zio-racists that it was definitely a Palestinian that killed the family in Itamar, and that those of us suggesting otherwise were utterly deluded and motivated merely by anti-semitism to suggest that there might be no Palestinian culpability, there has yet to be a shred of evidence produced showing Palestinian culpability.
Indeed last I heard the investigators were questioning (and probably torturing) Asian economic-slaves imported to work for the Colonisers while the Colonisers themselves had launched a vicious revenge campaign consisting of pogroms against innocent Palestinian natives of the area, from whom they had previously stolen land.
So your ‘predictions’ regarding the future certainty of arrests etc have, just like you yourself D and all you fellow racist Zio-trolls here, absolutely no credibility at all.
Your belief in the integrity of the Israeli Police and the Israeli system of what’s laughably called ‘Justice’ in that country, when it comes to matters effecting Palestinians in general, is ridiculously misplaced given the prevalence of State-sanctioned torture in the so-called ‘investigation’ process.
Were the investigation process in Israel not to regularly include torture of Palestinian suspects, the so-called system of justice in that country might have something even slightly resembling ‘integrity’ – but it does regularly include torture (sanctioned at the highest levels of the Israeli legal system) so any claim that the system is designed to arrive at the ‘truth’ when a Palestinian is the accused, is nothing but a lie
But then lies and distortions are the chosen currency of you and your fellow racist Zio-trolls here at MW, are they not?
Hamas is in control of Gaza, which is not an independent country. The Taliban and the Pashtuns do not control Afghanistan or Pakistan at present.
These attacks on Israel harm the Palestinian cause. First, they will never win a shooting war with Israel and the only reason for the bombings is provocation. Second, world opinion has been coalescing behind the Palestinians as long as Israel is seen as the bully. This damages Palestinian PR. Nonviolence is the only way they’ll win.
Of course, nobody knows who did the bus bombing but most assume it’s Hamas. The number of rockets from Gaza point to Hamas. It’s self-defeating. But then again I don’t know if I have the strength of character to join a non-violent demonstration against a state trying to steal my land instead of seeking revenge.
I think the days when Israel controlled the PR war are over.
They try to spin the Itamar deaths as barbaric and the Gaza kids dead as regrettable but it doesn’t work like that any more. Israel has a big credibility problem. People know it has been promising peace for 20 years and hasn’t delivered. And a lot of younger people don’t remember the Holocaust.
The Holocaust is taught in every public school in America and you can’t count all the Holocaust museums across America, including many on public ground. I don’t know one single young American teenager, Gentile or Jew, or adult that does not know about The Holocaust. I guess you mean it’s like the rest of “the Great War,” in remembering it means about as much as they remember what the term “GI” means. Those Draft registration cards for young males in the local PO look pretty dusty. Hey, you think any of the leftover girls got a chance to win American Idol? It’s on at 8PM EST. Wonder how many young Hitler jugend remembered All Quiet On The Western Front? Did you know that old geezer over there burned his draft card? My parents told me he was on TV for a few seconds back in the day. What’s a draft card?
So how are you spinning the Itamar deaths? It is not barbaric to target and stab several month old infants to death? Inquiring minds want to know.
As for peace, it takes two to tango. Even should Israel reach a deal with the PA, it is hard to see how it could go into effect with a hardline, racist movement like Hamas in control of Gaza.
When you have reliable evidence that a Palestinian did it Rueven, do please present it.
Personally I think it’s pretty sick to kill children – it equally sick to do it with a knife or with a US-Supplied missile, that’s where we differ – you think killing children with a Missile is just fine and dandy
I’m sure if you graduated from Hasbara school before yesterday you would have read about the reaction here about those killings: universal denouncement of them, coupled with disdain that the Israelis used them as a prop to bash innocent Palestinians over the head… this without even figuring out who committed the crime.
” Even should Israel reach a deal with the PA, it is hard to see how it could go into effect with a hardline, racist movement like Hamas in control of Gaza.”
And, likewise, the PA has little chance of reaching a deal with Israel, since Zionism is a “a hardline, racist movement.”
Zionism is a racist movement, so they shoudl have a great deal in common.
In any case, Hams have shown that they know how to stick to a ceasefre. Hamas stupport a 2 state solution and more importantly, Hamas said they woudl accept the Arab Peace Initiative (signed by 22 Arab States) if it was implemented.
On the other hand, Israel oppose the creatino of a Palestinian state, they have broken the last 3 ceasefires and they have rejected the Arab Peace Initiative.
Facebook update–6PM EST Today:
Israeli troops have now invaded northern Gaza, and are currently going from house to house. The sky is buzzing with armed Drones who have been in the air for hours, accompanied by Apache helicopters. The situation in Gaza is very tense, and the people are fearing the worst tonight.
By: Gaza TV News
Interesting, and Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders have gone into hiding. Sure, give the orders to launch rockets at civilians and bomb civilians in Jerusalem, then go hide, hope that Israel retaliates, which it should, then cry to the world that you are a victim.
Right, totally unlike you Israelis, who bravely level schools and hospitals from F-16 jets.
Echoes of Warsaw, incidentally. I’m sure SOMEBODY back then said something like that about the atrocity that took place there.
“hope that Israel retaliates, which it should, then cry to the world that you are a victim.”
bokim ve yorim
Has Tzipi Livni been back in the UK since that arrest warrant was launched?
It was quashed.
Of course the Lobby there had to do some arm-twisting to get laws re-written to enshrine Israeli impunity.
It wasn’t ‘quashed’ as such – it was granted and then the corrupt UK legal eagles lied about it, and in an illegal move pretended it never happened.
So yes it was ‘quashed’ by the illegal means of lying about it – the UK Zionists have corrupted the UK Justice system in order to protect a Zionist war-criminal from having to answer for her war-crimes
Westminster magistrates’ court actually DID issue the warrant at the request of lawyers acting for some of the Palestinian victims of Livni’s War-Crimes, but it was later quietly (and illegally) dropped after interference from higher-ups, obviously acting under pressure from Zionists
In fact the corrupt UK Court Services actually lied about it – they implied that there had been no application for an arrest warrant, which was clearly a false statement.
In the end the story put out was that a judge ‘refused to issue the warrant until it was clear Livni was in fact in the country’
Gutless slimeball that she is, she refused to appear in the UK, once she got wind of the fact that she might have to answer for her war-crimes
An arrest warrant could still be sought immediately, should she dare to show her ugly murdering war-criminal face in the UK
Livni, the war-criminal, later tried to show how tough she was by stating in early 2010 that she was going to visit Britain, after assurances by probable Zionist David Milliband that she would not be arrested, but like the gutless slime-ball we know her to be, she chickened out on that occasion too
As far as I know the laws have not been re-written . . . .yet
Oh? Well good, that’s one thing I’m glad I was mistaken about. You guys over there really need to keep on top of that, though. It’s bad enough that Israeli soldiers can come over here and spew race hatred and war mongering propaganda, you don’t want that imported over there, too.
I keep wondering when the UK as a whole is going to stand up to this. Maybe I have romantic notions that things are less corrupt politically over there than over here, but I have to imagine that Hillary Clinton threatening to end US intelligence sharing if British courts didn’t stop following up on “terror” suspect abuse still smarts to modern-day British sensibilities.
Crap. Well, we know the carnival of slaughter was going to resume sooner or later.
I would hope and imagine that Obama is “doing a Merkel” on Bibi right now. The last thing he wants in the current sensitive situation with the Arab world is this from Israel.
But back in reality, Obama is asking how much jet fuel Bibi needs to get this done quickly.
‘fraid you’re possibly right Chaos, but perhaps things are beginning to change. I’m sure that his European allies don’t share that blinkered view.
Sacrificing NATO for the sake of Israel is going to be messy and very bad for us in the long run, I predict. And sooner or later, it’s going to come to that.
A Brit was killed yesterday in the bombing, not sure Europe will appreciate that too much.
It wouldn’t be the first time Israel have killed Euroeans DBG, but when Israelis kill Americans and Europeans, the news coverage goes dead.
“Operation Wrath of God,” anyone?
Munich ’72? Ever Israeli action is simply reaction to Palestinian terror Chaos. When terrorists storm the olympic village and kill un-armed civilians, you will get a response. (or did Hu Bris alreadyconvince you that too was a ‘false flag’ operation?)
Not sure what the death of a 55 year old bible interpreter has to do with an Israeli counter terror mission, perhaps you can explain?
But that Palestinian action was simply a reaction to Israeli occupation and terror DBG. When Israelis storm the Plestinians land and kill un-armed civilians, you will get a response.
“…Munich ’72? Ever Israeli action is simply reaction to Palestinian terror Chaos.”
DBG, the Palestinians didn’t just wake up one morning and decide to kill the athletes. They did it to force the release of 100 political prisoners held in Israeli jails. Had there not been any occupation or political prisoners, it’s highly probable there would not have been a Munich. If you were to analyse the suicide or other bombings by Palestinians, you’d see that something like 95% of them happened immeditely in response to some vile Israeli deed. Hamas’ barrage of Qassams that preceded Cast Lead came about only after Israel assassinated the 6 Palestinians inside their own borders inside Gaza and while it had been practically pleading with Israel to extend the cease-fire about to expire. Israelis aren’t only wicked, they are also liars that pick and choose at stories to create their own version of the truth.
Israel only get away with it Walid because the media are so willing to play the game. Every time Israel attack Gaza, it’s always repored that the Israeli actions are a reponse to somethign Hamas did. Never are Hamas’ actions reported as a reponse to Israeli provocation or incitement.
DBG : – “(or did Hu Bris alreadyconvince you that too was a ‘false flag’ operation?)”
Unlike you, DBG, I have no need to lie.
Unlike you, DBG, I stick to facts.
Unlike you, DBG, I have no need to invent.
Unlike you, DBG, I make statements based on evidence and draw conclusions based on factual information,
Unlike you, DBG, I don’t just post blatant lies like you and your fellow Zio-trolls frequently do.
Despite being many times accused, by Zio-trolls like yourself, of spreading untruths, NOT ONCE have any of you racist Zio-trolls come anywhere near providing any evidence to back up such a ridiculously dishonest claim.
If you have any evidence that I have posted lies here at MW then do please present it – otherwise by making such statements as I quoted above, you’re just proving that it is you DBG who is the dishonest one
aipac is already fundraising off this latest attack. why miss an opportunity like this to haul in the cash?
Ha! Witty was waaaaay ahead of AIPAC in scoring off of the the attack. Did you see this, annie? So how long have you thought terrorism was good, annie? How long have you thought it was justifiable? Huh? Huh? When did you stop beating your wife, annie? Enquiring hypocrites want to know.
Interesting that none of you oh so knowledgeable people is seeing why Hamas may be interested in heating things up. They have to avoid the heat of the recent Arab uprisings and the March 15th movements against them which they are brutally suppressing. What’s the timeworn way to do that? Why, target the “external enemy”, Israel. Clear as day.
Hamas aren’t flying F-16s over Gaza. You butchers are.
Oh we do see that Hamas might wanna engage in ‘heating things up’, as you call it –
we ALSO see that Israel might ALSO wanna engage in ‘heating things up’
we see a wider view because we don’t have little Zio-blinkers stuck to our heads
Gaza TV News – Added 3 hours ago ***** BREAKING NEWS *****
Israeli troops have now invaded northern Gaza, and are currently going from house to house. The sky is buzzing with armed Drones who have been in the air for hours, accompanied by Apache helicopters. The situation in Gaza is very tense, and the people are fearing the worst tonight.
***** BREAKING NEWS ***** about an hour ago
F16 attacked have now been reported in Gaza. Several loud explosions have rocked the Rafah area in the past 10 minutes. Appache helicopters are also in the sky over Gaza City.
Israeli military Apache helicopters [US Supplied] have launched an attack on Gaza, with at least 6 missiles fired.
Livestream from Gaza city which is currently under attack.
Didn’t Egypt warn them not to do this? Attacking Rafah is the same as attacking Egypt.
Egypt Shmegypt- the US installed NEW puppets [ same as the old puppets for all intents and purposes] there won’t do a thing
The documentary ‘Peace, Propaganda & the Promised Land’ provides a striking comparison of U.S. and international media coverage of the crisis in the Middle East, zeroing in on how structural distortions in U.S. coverage have reinforced false perceptions of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
This pivotal documentary exposes how the foreign policy interests of American political elites–oil, and a need to have a secure military base in the region, among others–work in combination with Israeli public relations strategies to exercise a powerful influence over how news from the region is reported.
link to video.google.com
Maps of Palestine (West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem) – link to ccmep.org
Map showing large number of Israeli checkpoints in the West Bank
well the checkpoints will be doubled now Hu Bris.
so when an Israeli dies, double the checkpoints. what happens when a Palestinian dies?
how often does a Palestinian get killed by an Israeli?
Once there is a state of Palestine they can set up all the checkpoints they want to protect their people Cliff.
That would involve removing all of the Israeli land baron vultures from the West Bank, as well as all those snipers in the concentration camp guard posts along Gaza.
What, are you going to start putting checkpoints on every goddamn street corner? How often are you going to strip search Palestinians in a day, freak?
Chaos, I am not Israeli, I am not strip searching anyone.
Maybe you should talk to your handlers about halting the bombings, that might help w/ the checkpoints.
What might help with the checkpoints is if Zionist conquistadors start adhering to the Geneva Conventions like civilized people do. That might help.
Bombs in the residential area of Sheikh Ejleen.The electric power plant in Gaza has been hit. Complete darkness, civilians are terrified. Seems like the vigil of Operation Cast Lead.”
I guess that explains why Israel kidnapped one of the plant’s engineers. They were gathering target data to assault that particular civilian target.
Awful bastards. How long were they planning Cast Lead II?
kidnapped one of the plant’s engineers. They were gathering target data to assault that particular civilian target.
they probably tortured him.
Also explains why Israel didn’t beat around the bush around him. What was the point? The stormtroopers were already on the march.
So Israel needed an engineer to blow up a transistor (it wasn’t a power plant) with a missile?
You guys are stretching more than normal on this thread, ya’ll a little scared? The Palestinians aren’t your defenseless victims anymore.
They are victims. They are virtually defenseless and helpless. I don’t call those worthless rockets defense. Clearly, if the Palestinians weren’t helpless they wouldn’t be losing their lives and dignity and land for decades.
Do you think your comments are having some kind of affect on us? Your hasbara talking points are weak as hell.
If those “worthless rockets” were not defense, then there was no point in launching them at civilian targets in major Israeli citizens except to spread terror. Well Hamas is getting exactly what it asked for. My sympathy is for the people of Gaza who probably loathe Hamas but have no legal way of ridding themselves of the monster.
“If those “worthless rockets” were not defense, then there was no point in launching them at civilian targets in major Israeli citizens except to spread terror. ”
No, they were targeting the government offices within those areas. Palestinians can’t help it if the Isralei government uses its citizens as human shields to protect the government/military infrastructure.
each one of those worthless rockets is considered a war crime Cliff, is it worth it?
@Reuven
i don’t think anyone is going to hold their breath for your sympathies.
if one of those worthless rockets is a war crime, then of course you and your ilk will be so much more concerned about the crimes perpetrated by your racist apartheid state on the Palestinians. the continual land theft and colonization of their land.
but of course you don’t so it’s not about the legality of the rockets. it’s about whether or not they hit JEWS, so give us all a break and stop pretending that you have any morals – you don’t
it’s whats best for YOU
let’s not forget what started this exchange, a RIDICULOUS comparison YOU made
and lets not forget that it’s fascists like you who characterize Rachel Corrie’s death as anything OTHER than murder. that it’s her own fault for standing in front of a bulldozer demolishing someone’s home
I’d still like to DBG to explain how Israel was targeting a single “transistor.”
He doesn’t know what the hell he’s talking about, does he?
read a news report Chaos, seriously, just once. it was a transformer, not a transistor (not sure what the difference is).
link to haaretz.com
Right because there are ABSOLUTELY NO POWER TRANSFORMERS located at the Gazan POWER PLANT.
The difference between the transformer that Israel blew up and cutting power to any surrounding civilian structures (schools, factories, hospitals, news agencies…) and a transistor? Try maybe a couple of tons or so, for starters.
How do these people even learn to type? Seriously?
a couple tons of what? is that how they measure electricity in the ME, by the ton?
who is the smarty pants? do you know what a transistor or a transformer is Chaos?
If those Jews in the warsaw Ghetto were so poorl;y armed, then what was the point in rsing up against the Nazi oppressors? Were they just spreading terror?
So is Likud. They want a war and nothing is going to stop them getting what they want.
My sympathy is for the people of Israel who probably loathe Likud but have no legal way of ridding themselves of the monster.
So is collective punichment.
So is ethnic cleansing.
So is murder.
So is each house in erach settlement.
No, not target data, IMHO – my guess is that since he’s the one that was in charge of putting the power station back together after the Zionist regime bombed it last time, the Zionists are hanging onto him in order to prevent/delay it being put back together after they bomb it again.
Israel kills 8 in Gaza in deadliest day in months | Reuters uk.reuters.com
GAZA (Reuters) – Israeli air strikes and shelling killed eight Palestinians in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, medical officials said, in the deadliest day of conflict in the enclave in months.Palestinian<
And NPR reports it as if the Israelis are sitting at home drinking tea and the evil Palestinians are attacking it for no reason.
The AP just put out a report that rewrites history. Israel attacked Gaza in December 2008 because of months of deadly Hamas rocket fire, according to them.
link
What kind of loopy chagrinned shit is the AP going to be forced to print when the Arab League goes to the UN demanding a no fly zone over Gaza as well as Libya?
The triumph of the Lie.
And the report will not die, because nothing on the internet ever dies, and Zionist dupes will be referring to the thing for decades to come.
Meh. We have the Goldstone Report, and the rest of the international media. The next yutz that waves something from the AP or NYT at you, do what I do: ask them if they’ve found the WMDs in Iraq yet.
How does the AP get away with calling itself a news service?
Seriously. Someone must be paying people off to get this crap into print.
LOL. you are a riot tonight Chaos!
cordyceps
link to youtube.com
Fine- a true no-fly zone. No Israeli missiles going into Gaza. No Hamas missiles going out of Gaza. Think Hamas will agree to it?
“Fine- a true no-fly zone. No Israeli missiles going into Gaza. No Hamas missiles going out of Gaza. Think Hamas will agree to it?”
yes I absolutely think that Hamas and all Palestinians would agree and adhere to that.
I just don’t think Israel would agree, or if it did agree I don’t think it would ever intend to adhere to that.
So do YOU support such a call for a true No-Fly Zone, prohibiting BOTH Hamas and the Zionist regime from using Airplanes and missiles to attack or even observe each other Rueven??
Hamas ALREADY proved that with the cease fire in 2008. Remember? The cease fire Israel broke? By invading Gaza and killing people?
No reply from the Zionist after I asked him to agree to his own proposal – oh well, as I said before, arguing with Zio-trolls is fun because they always say something stupid – essentially they make their own rhetorical traps -
Sure, but Israel won’t. How else will they be able to start their wars?
And that no fly zone needs to apply to all of Israle so they can stop violating Lebanon’s and Syria’s air space.
He’s too busy trying to weigh electricity on the bathroom scale, apparently.
Then it will happen. Israel after all left Gaza with economic assets to help its economy (the thriving hydoponics farms). Ultimately it is to Israel’s interest to have a peaceful border with Gaza. But having many of thousands of missiles launched at your towns and villages does tend to discourage good relations.
The mayor of Sderot wanted to meet the mayor of Gaza. Think he got a response?
” Israel after all left Gaza with economic assets to help its economy (the thriving hydoponics farms)”
Something I haven’t figured out yet is whether you actually believe the nonsense you type. Some people don’t seem to believe in a reality outside of their heads–the truth is whatever they want to believe. So, sure, Israel left those farms, and then they didn’t allow exports.
link
And those rockets–I guess you don’t seem to know that Israel kept Gazans in a giant prison and that both sides fired at each other. But then to your sort of Zionist the only violence that counts as violence is that aimed at Israelis.
Sderot is built on the Zionist-destroyed village of Najd, a Palestinian village.
Bullshit. Israeli settlers destroyed them as they left, in spite of being paid to keep leave them for the Palestninans.
Nor does firing 7,700 shells into Gaza as you leave over a period of 10 months, which is what Israel did. Not to mention the scorched earth policy they adopted as they withdrew.
Sure, maybe they should have a studet exchange program and swap body bags at the end of every term.
BZZZT! False.
Israeli Settlers Demolish Greenhouses and Gaza Jobs
U.S. Donors to Pay Departing Jews for Gaza Greenhouses
this is what i think. i know i’ve already said that a few times and i don’t want to sound like a broken record but some analysts were saying just days bofore all this started netanyahu was in his biggest pickle thus far. or something like that.
also what are those think tanks up to? i’m not seeing any brilliant new policies or suggestions coming out of the goi. same ol same ol. we got a one trick pony on our hands if you ask me.
With the civil war in Libya and major unrest throughout the Arab world, this is a good time to attack Gaza. It will get lost in the welter of other news.
Not on Arab Street!
“Israel should have taken advantage of the suppression of the demonstrations in (Tiananmen Squarre) China, when the world’s attention was focussed on what was happening in that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the Territories. However, to my regret, they did not support that policy that I proposed, and which I still propose should be implemented.” (in a speech given at Bar-Ilan University in 1989)
RoHa has a point; this is how Zionists think and operate.
There ain’t gonna be a cast lead 2 that goes on for some three weeks with the mortified region and the world just helplessly looking on. There are other realities/forces now that are prepared to interfere militarily for ‘humanitarian’ reasons. Or, for cynical ones.
If in the next 48 hours israel is still ‘operating’ over Gaza and footage of the damage and human casualties gets looped on aljazeera-arabic, you will start to see COLOSSAL and vitriolic demos across the Arab world and especially on the streets of Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Syria and Jordan – the likes that aljazeera and youtube cameras have never before seen.
As of today, it is in the interest of Syria to have a military engagement with israel so as to distract from it’s recent deadly internal street rebellions – say an offensive in the Golan is a good silencer of ALL dissent. It prefers a punch back from the israelis than a fatal kick from the spreading internal unrest that threatens to unseat Asad from his eleven year governance.
Iran would find it very hard to hold back hizbollah especially if idf-ers start swarming the blue line in tank formations, especially now that a pro-hizb government and army are holding office and power in Lebanon.
Turkey’s people are still grieving over their martyrs who were murdered by israeli uniformed pirates out in international waters and will quite likely very vociferously urge their government to ‘intervene’ by any means possible, citing if the west is intervening in Libya on humanitarian grounds, then so can the Turks.
Personally, I think israel is planning a quickie – which of course in their coarse thug hands can easily get completely out of control. And if it does get out of control, their contingency plan is the following: they aim to widen the conflict and bring in the iranians into the foray as quickly as possible.
They need the iranians in the mix so as to re-gain support from islamophobic euros and justify further landgrabs through mass slaughter and population transfers.
The idf is under tremendous pressure to perform right and BIG in the next one as regaining their ‘deterrence’ is paramount to their very reputation and existence.
Don’t nobody be surprised if it gets gruesome ugly real quick should things get outta hand.
The imperialist corpocratic west that’s pretending to be democratic, they have already agreed amongst themselves and israel that they must now distract and drain the Arab revolution through Arab civil wars, Arab cross-border wars, and Arab/israeli/Iranian wars. Wars, wars and more wars to keep the natives crippled with fear, hungry, disorganized/divided/unfocused.
The west plus israel plus remaining Arab dictators have plans to keep wars going in the region till the oil runs out – for the next forty to sixty more years they’re planning on slaughtering an endless line of Arabs: women, children, young, old, sick, healthy – all of them ordinary people are ‘disposable’ just so we can have cheap gasoline and a corner morsel of the American Dream if we’re lucky.
The underdog Arab people are collectively facing a most poignant and perilous chapter in their history. We can help them by not voting for politicians with imperialist ambitions: covert or overt.
And more importantly, we should all be insisting that our politicians address MORE SERIOUSLY our energy crisis: we should insist on the monies wasted on oil wars could easily be made useful on developing and promoting greener energies.
Without THAT happening, the Arabs and all their inspired revolutions combined are fucked. And so are we by the way. Big time.
Everyone loses when you kill a beautiful thing.
Don’t be so sure, Taxi, Syria hasn’t fired a shot on the Golan for the past 38 years and Hizbullah will not get into a war with Israel for the sake of another country and Egyptians aren’t fighters. Millions across the world demonstrated against the invasion of Iraq but this didn’t stop it from happening. The same didn’t happen either in 2006 over the killing and destruction by Israel in 2006 in Gaza and Lebanon and again with the phosphorus over Gaza a couple of years back. With the US riding shotgun for it, Israel doesn’t give a damn what the rest of the world thinks. Remember the holocaust.
You are right though about the West’s objective of breaking up the various Arab countries into smaller states that would be easier to control for Israel.
Syrian’s been saving the ‘first’ Golan Bullet for emergencies Walid – and I believe the Syrian regime is in the eleventh hour of facing THAT kind of emergency actually.
Also the Hizb already put it out there that their guys should be prepared to “liberate the Galilee” in their next encounter with israel. Well that sure sounds to me like they got some seriously big planning configured. Clearly, behaviorally, Israel intends to strike again under another invented pretext regardless of what the hizb is doing or not doing. Israel intends to provoke then strike on Lebanon real hard – how else is it gonna get Iran dragged in you think but through hitting real hard at Lebanon?
Israel HAS TO fight and defeat Iran on five fronts in its next blood-lust fit: in Lebanon, Gaza, Syria and yes Egypt: I have no doubt that resistance factions outside the domain of the Egyptian army would roll their sleeves up too for the big one, dragging thus the Egyptian army into at least taking a restrained ‘defensive’ stance against the idf to appease the Egyptian newly freed masses. Yes Walid israel needs to also and fifthly strike on actual far away Iranian soil. Soon as it drags Iran into it, the euros and USA will rush to help it so as to keep their imperialist unhumanitarian paws in the region.
The situation is extremely volatile because shit ain’t been going israel’s way especially with the continuously fluent and indeterminable consequences yet of the Arab Spring. The israelis really need to strike soon as the balance of terror in the region is only stacking up higher against them.
Taxi, I’m with you that we should be spooking the Mondo-zios here but, the only thing Syria is saving for the Golan is its money to buy more apples from Israel that have been grown on the Golan. In this 6th year of buying apples from the “enemy”, the importation of apples has reached 10,000 tons and according to an article in Haaretz last year, there were under the table or behind the curtain talks about expanding trade beyond Golan apples.
As to Hizbullah venturing into the northern Galilee, Nasrallah made that tongue-in-cheek suggestion to his men in reaction to Barak having that same morning told the IDF troops they should be prepared for a return engagement in Lebanon. As usual, Israel only reported what Nasrallah had had threatened without adding that this comment had been provoked by Barak’s earlier comment about returning to Lebanon.
Don’t expect anything out of Egypt. Gates is currently in Cairo on a 2 day visit to Egypt’s military commanders and it was announced on the news that Gates spoke on the phone with the Egyptian Chief of Staff 6 times during the demonstrations in Tahrir. I’m sure Gates is not in Cairo to see the pyramids and that the Egyptian military have to be extra polite with Gates if they don’t want to see all their equipment grounded for lack of replacement parts from the States.Gates is probably telling them that if they want their toys to continue running, they should continue being nice to Israel.
I wouldn’t be a posimistic as you Walid. In the past, Egyptians kept their outrage to themselves because of Murabak’s iron fist. Now that it has been broken, I think the Egyptian military is going to have to wal a tight line.
If they remain silent and do nothing, they will be seen as complicit in Israel’s crimes, and this could spark a huge backlash. They are already very concerned about Egytians who suspect the revolution only brought about cosmetic changes taking to the streets and facing down the military.
Don’t assume that because Gates has been in Cairo it means the US is pulling the strings. Washington is in a panic and Gates is struggling to keep a lid on things given that he was seen kissing Addullah’s ass days before the Saudis sent forces to Bahrain. Some sugges that Gates did a quid pro quo deal where he agreed to Saudi Arabian forces in Bahrain in return for a green light on the no fly zone over Lybia.
Walid, your calculations are sound as per before the Arab Spring – I believe things are very, very different now and I hedge my bets that the ‘unthinkable’ will continueto take place in the mideast.
I don’t say what I say to scaremonger by the way – I say it because it’s highly plausible.
Anyways, we shall see.
21 hours left in your countdown taxi, the Arab world hasn’t said a peep yet. What about the Arab Spring?
Ok psycho-path.
Go ahead and try another Cast Lead. Try 50! You will never be able to kill off the Palestinians. Or their legitimate claims to THEIR land.
For all your incessant whiny verbiage, it doesn’t change the fact that it’s their land, you stole it, you continue to steal it, and that you and your ilk are pathological liars.
Libya may be a distraction for Cast Lead II, but also a precedent: a massacre justifies sending missiles and attempts to “decapitate the regime”.
Syria and Lebanon could give an ultimatum to cease hostilities against Gaza. Then the plot could be thick indeed.
Cynically, Israel can afford to stay within limits of internal massacre inside Syria. But if they do, there will be big internal backlash within Israel. I can see the likes of Caroline Glick demanding Netanyahu’s head if he does not kill at least 2000. Right wing government of Israel can be boxed between raised expectations, their base demanding a “plan for victory”, and military and diplomatic constraints.
Unlike the Syrians as they suppress internal dissent or the Americans in Vietnam, Israel has never been interested in a body count. If we could suppress terrorism without one death, that would be the ideal.
That you do it with slaughtering 300 children in one go? Why, I suppose that’s just white phosphorous icing on the cake for you, isn’t it?
You know WP shells were fired against Israel yesterday right Chaos? maybe time to switch your talking points.
Show me even one picture of an Israeli baby who was burned to death by white phosphorous. I can show you several dozen Palestinian and Lebanese babies who were.
“You know WP shells were fired against Israel yesterday right Chaos?”
Uh, no. Shells allegedly containing phosphorus were “found” by Israeli I”D”F sappers. There’s been no evidence that established that they were ever fired, as opposed to being placed there by the Israelis.
But, at any rate, if there were any fired, I’m sure the Gazans were trying to create a smoke screen. That’s the excuse, right?
And Hamas put the 3 dead kids in the park following Israel’s mortar attack.
I think i get it now, the Palestinians have committed zero crimes ever. Anytime someone is hurt or killed in Israel it is a Mossad false flag mission.
Wow I think I am going to switch sides. you guys have got it made!
Please, DBG. You’re getting FAR wealthier on the war crimes your profiting on. There’s no profit in being an anti-war, human rights activists. In fact it tends to be rather expensive.
1. Where did Hamas get the White Phosphorus? I bet your answer is going to be “Iran”.
2. Since you are protesting use of White Phosphorus against civilians, then I suppose you do acknowledge that Israel committed war crimes in Gaza.
>> If we could suppress terrorism without one death, that would be the ideal.
And yet Israel remains engaged in an ON-GOING campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder, a campaign that Zio-supremacists don’t seem to want halted.
Your attempt at sincerity rings very hollow.
Can someone explain to me why every Israeli troll who visits this forum sounds like Forrest Gump?
When were Syrians ever interested in body counts?
Far from it. Any chance to remove Arabs is jumped at by the Israeli leadership. Why esle would Israel kill so many women and children?
Piotr,
Syria is doing a pretty good job generating their own body count right now. As for an ultimatum from Syria and Lebanon, who are you kidding? It would be like taking an ultimatum from Iran.
Why? Because all those brown people are the same to you, huh?
Chaos, you need to work on your understanding of the dynamics of the ME more. Syria, Iran, and Lebanon are inter-connected to the core. not just by their predominately Shia leadership(Lebanon is sort of an exception considering their archaic political structure), but by their more aggressive stance towards Israel.
Seriously DBG: are you dense or something? You do realize that the Syrian regime’s religion is ‘alawi’, right? Well now you know.
As to Lebanon’s “archaic political structure” – well do enlighten us and explain which bit is exactly “archaic”.
That’s right go google and get informed and don’t be a know-nothing dimwit, posting comments about something you evidently KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.
Time waster!
Wow, you know it is a sect of Shia right? Do you know what Shia Islam means? Do you speak Arabic? What does Alawi mean? I’ll give you hint:
The name Alawi is of Arabic origin and means “descendant of ali”.
Educate thyself Taxi.
Regarding Lebanon, look it up. I’ll give you another hint, does a certain religious sect need to represent president, PM, etc? Would Shia Islam be a majority leader in the government if it weren’t for these rules?
I’m not sure what’s more pathetic, the fact that you seek to imitate others by using their language in an effort to sound smart, or that you haven’t the slightest clue as to what you’re talking about.
How did I know that you would stop at a ‘shia sect’? Cuz you’re so frigging predictable!
You didn’t bother reading past that description did you? Let me put in in as simple terms as possible:
To Sunni moslems, the Mohamad-loving Alawis ARE NOT EVEN moslem. On the other hand, the Shia’s didn’t want to ‘judge’ the religiosity of their Syrian Mohamad-loving cousins and offered them acceptance and protection against the Sunnis. The Sunnis in return got mad and lumped them both together in their sectarian propaganda. That’s why it is related that Alawism is considered by ‘some’ to be ‘akin’ to Shiaism.
BUT IT IS NOT SHIAISM.
Their religious rituals would attest to this.
If the Alawis were Shias dumbo, they’d be called SHIAS TOO AND NOT ALAWIS and that would be that!@!!!!!!
Just go home and study – crikee ol’ sheeshinkababz!
Sure Taxi, keep talking. you can quote google as much as you want, but the fact is Alawis are followers of Ali, making them Shia. just like that name says.
Next you are going to try to tell me that Lutherans are not Christians and Reform are not Jews.
So now there are three sects of Islam, nice to know or wait there must be four because Wahabism isn’t Sunni either. Am I missing another….. wait, wait the Nation of Islam. Now we have five. Should we count Bahai as another branch of Islam?
Do you guys want to re-write history anymore while we are at it?
You even ever met and talked to an Alawite or even a Shia you dunce?! Ever talked to them in Arabic? Well I frigging have you rusty old zio robot- who in the heck wound you up today and left the key jammed in yer back?!
Or you think you’re an einsteinian expert on Shia and Sunni And Alwai and Malaki huh?
You’re a real idiot bore. Spare me your pathetic ‘gotchas’ and go gargle with some lube your old creaker.
I think if you continue to attack me with ad-hominems you might actually change the fact that the Alawite are Shia and followers of Ali. Keep it up, i’ll be here all night.
Why are we bothering with this doofus? If he can’t tell a transistor from a power station transformer, do you really think he’s going to let a thing like a nuanced and in depth understanding of one of the world’s largest major religions get in the way of his irrational hatred?
Chaos, show me a link where the power station was bombed. While your at it, show me a scholar who believes that the Alawite aren’t Shia and followers of Ali. I mean you can attack me all you want, after you prove to me I am wrong.
Have you taken Arabic Chaos? does Alawi not meant ‘descendent of Ali’? Is Shia Islam not the branch of Islam that follows Ali?
P.S. Gaza News TV (a face book page) doesn’t count as a legit news sources.
So you’ve “taken” Arabic and that suddenly makes you an expert?
Fascinating.
DBG, stop spamming threads with incoherent nonsense.
Loud explosions have been reported in central Gaza in the past 10 minutes. Another wave of attacks are on the way.
Added 40 minutes ago – Gaza TV News
Goddamn Israel, anyway. I guess the mass slaughter really and truly has resumed.
So this was a lie also, no blood bath huh?
Find those WMDs in Iraq yet?
DBG: – “So this was a lie also”
DBG – are you really claiming that the Israelis didn’t launch attacks on Gaza on the evening of March 24th 2011? –
Are you really so addicted to lying, that you would make such a claim?
Are you so deluded that you actually believe that anyone would be fooled by your ridiculous and patently false denials of actual events?
Only someone with a mental illness would make such a claim that is so easy to disprove
A simple Google search using the terms Google News: ‘March 24 Israeli Air Attacks Gaza’ proves you to be a blatant pathological liar, like most of the Zio-trolls that post here