Here is Ayman. And here is his horse

Israel/Palestine
on 207 Comments

The other day Kate picked up a story published at Jordan Valley Solidarity about Ayman and his horse– an 11-year-old Palestinian boy who watched as three settlers who have seized his village’s water killed his horse, who was drinking some of that water, by tying a cable around its neck. Well, here is Ayman:

ayman2

And here is his horse:

ayman

Americans, please tell me, how much more do you need to know?

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

Other posts by .


Posted In:

207 Responses

  1. seafoid
    March 22, 2011, 10:24 am

    The great early 90s album “hypocrisy is the greatest luxury” by the Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy featured a great quote about education : “the question is not “are there enough dollars to educate our children? ”. The question is “do we want to educate our children?””
    And the question is not how much more Americans need to know. Do Americans and especially Jewish Americans want to know?

    The Zionists have made a mockery of thousands of years of Jewish culture and practice . Israel is supposed to be some sort of higher entity that’s closer to God. Jerusalem is supposed to be a holy city. Hebron is supposed to be sacred. Instead Zionism has turned the whole space into a sink of bigotry, cruelty and hatred.

    • Chu
      March 22, 2011, 11:52 am

      That’s quite an accomplishment being in existence for 60 years. His education will be to endure an occupation and watch all that you knew be destroyed around you, while his parents wait for the US to stop funding this apartheid.

      Settlers are the filthiest low-lifes on the planet, if you had to recognize one group in the world to take this prize. They are worse than drug dealers, hustlers, pimps, banksters, slumlords, criminals. And they have no style, many being low-lifes from Brooklyn.

    • MRW
      March 22, 2011, 4:36 pm

      The Zionists have made a mockery of thousands of years of Jewish culture and practice .

      No truer words. Were the extremists over time ever so? I mean, seriously, what this does to the entire color of “Jewish culture and practice” over time is decimate it. Horrible.

  2. annie
    March 22, 2011, 10:28 am

    this is a gut wrenching story. the cruelty is hard to comprehend.

    • Walid
      March 22, 2011, 11:18 am

      Judaism prohibits the destruction of fruit-bearing trees and Judaism prohibits the malicious or unjustified killing of animals; as if the rapacious settlers cared. These people that are uprooting olive trees and killing animals are scum.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 11:38 am

        Meh. Modern zealotry has virtually destroyed mainstream Judaism. All that is good and just that remains in Judaism, tends to be held by those who are shunned by the rabbis and those with power and influence.

        Which of course, is why the young and the intelligent are abandoning Jewish culture in droves. It’s somewhat sad to think about, actually. Even the free Birthright vacations aren’t helping as much any more.

      • Les
        March 22, 2011, 1:25 pm

        You are confusing Judaism with Judaising.

      • thankgodimatheist
        March 22, 2011, 7:02 pm

        “Judaism prohibits the destruction of fruit-bearing trees and Judaism prohibits the malicious or unjustified killing of animals;”
        Walid
        Those recommendations do not stand in the case of enemies. It’s quite the opposite. In Deuteronomy, to cite only one, a recommendation to destroy the enemy’s trees AND animals is clearly stated and I came across it many times. I’ll try to find a link..

  3. eee
    March 22, 2011, 10:44 am

    I can’t believe Israel has stooped to the level of New Zealand:
    link to horsetalk.co.nz

    Or Ireland for that matter:
    link to irishtimes.com

    • Woody Tanaka
      March 22, 2011, 11:09 am

      “I can’t believe Israel has stooped to the level of New Zealand”

      Not “Israel.” This happened in Occupied Palestine. And when the pig bastards who’ve stolen the land, water and now tortured this poor animal are brought to justice, then you can talk. The sentences in New Zealand and Ireland may have been light, but at least they were convicted, unlike in your shit hole country.

    • seafoid
      March 22, 2011, 11:14 am

      I can’t believe the hasbara. And these people are supposed to be chosen.

    • annie
      March 22, 2011, 11:14 am

      what are you talking about? both of your stories show the perpetrator will be serving sentences for their crime. is israel even investigating this? must you continually show your callous insensitivity. do you know no shame?

      • Hu Bris
        March 22, 2011, 11:19 am

        “do you know no shame?”

        apparently not . . .

        I also notice that in neither of those stories which eee(k!) so very stupidly linked, in a very lame effort to try and prove that Israeli Colonist’s bizarre cruelty is in some way ‘normal’, did the animal belong to a child who then had to watch as it was cruelly & sadistically slaughtered out of sheer racist spite

      • Walid
        March 22, 2011, 11:21 am

        “… do you know no shame?”

        Annie, the word doesn’t exist for Zionists.

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 11:22 am

        Annie,

        The person showing no shame is you. Some people treat animals badly. It is not an Israeli phenomena it is just human nature. The problem with your propaganda is that it follows these lines:
        1) Some Israelis treat animals badly
        Therefore:
        2) Israel as a state needs to be closed down
        3) Jews in the US should stop associating with it
        4) etc. etc.

        Enough. Israel is an average state with average people. Its crime statistics are better than those of the US. There is less murder, rape etc per capita in Israel than in the US and many other countries. Does that mean the US as a country should be abolished? Does that mean people should hate the US?

      • Hu Bris
        March 22, 2011, 11:34 am

        @ EEE(K!):

        as usual you are waaaaay to dumb and waaaay to blinkered by your racist supremacist indoctrination, to even begin to understand that the horrific part of the story, to most ‘normal’ people, is not merely that “Some Israelis treat animals badly” but that it was ALSO done out of sheer racist spite, because the horse belonged to a Palestinian child, and that NOTHING will be done about it exactly because the horse belonged to a Palestinian child, and the sick sadists who carried out this heinous act are Jewish

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 11:34 am

        The difference, eee, is that what is considered cruelty in the rest of the world, is business as usual for you Israelis. The scum that do this sort of thing elsewhere in the world end up in prison. You and your family get a government stipend for doing this stuff.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 11:36 am

        “Some people treat animals badly. It is not an Israeli phenomena it is just human nature. ”

        Only an imbicile would treat this story as merely one of “treating an animal badly.” If it was merely a case of some Israeli treating an animal badly, that would be one thing. But it’s not.

        Here, some “settlers,” after they’ve stolen the land of the native Palestinians and stole the Palestinian water supply, continue on their rampage and torture and kill this innocent animal for the temerity of taking a drink of water when it is thirsty.

        It is that heartlessness, that absolute lack of compassion and humanity, that decision to do even more evil against innocents to enforce existing evil that was committed against innocents, that is the heart of this story, at the heart of the evil occupation regime, and at the heart of the evil ideology of zionism.

        That is why this is a story, to anyone with a normal sense of morality. Which obviously does not include you.

      • Cliff
        March 22, 2011, 12:37 pm

        Eee, Israel is not average. Israel is an abnormal state because it is occupying and colonizing another people. Stop trying to make everything seem normal.

        YOU are not normal. You see crimes carried out by your apartheid State and then your first reaction is to dismiss/obfuscate/disassemble.

        You have mental issues.

      • Light
        March 22, 2011, 1:02 pm

        No, eee. This has nothing to do with some people treating animals badly. What is going on in the occupied territories falls into the category of a state which turns a blind eye to the settler violence. It is no different than the situation in US South during segration when the police failed to prosecute the KKK.

        Ending segration didn’t destroy the American South.
        Ending apartheid didn’t destroy South Africa.
        Ending apartheid in Israel won’t destroy Israel.

        However, if Israel wants to be an apartheid state and behave this way then I will not associate with it. Israel is not an average country. It is a country which does not respect rights of half the people who live under its rule.

      • RoHa
        March 22, 2011, 8:15 pm

        “Israel is an average state with average people.”

        But I thought Israel was supposed to be a super-special state with super-special people who invented cherry tomatoes and air and stuff and which had the most moral army in the world and like that and …

        Oh, this is so confusing!

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 11:25 am

        eee is merely repeating his trick of using innocents, in this case, New Zealand and Ireland, as rhetorical human shields to protect the vile regime he favors.

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 12:18 pm

        what a low person he is.

      • Philip Weiss
        March 22, 2011, 11:35 am

        thank you annie

      • MRW
        March 22, 2011, 4:50 pm

        “It isn’t sadism because everyone else is doing it,” said eee.

    • Chaos4700
      March 22, 2011, 11:33 am

      #4) Everybody sucks!

      Good God, they’re veritably screaming it from the top of their lungs now, aren’t they all?

    • James North
      March 22, 2011, 12:26 pm

      3e came up with the New Zealand and Ireland examples awfully quickly. What kind of person sits at his computer, with tu quoque examples ready for anything within minutes?
      a) A paid employee of Israel’s Ministry of Hasbara?
      b) A kneejerk fanatic?

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 12:31 pm

        Remember how yonira was able to cite right wing propaganda sites at the drop of a hat? Anyway, I find it hard to believe anyone out there thinks eee’s posts are worth paying for.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 12:59 pm

        Where is Yonira? She’s the one who said

        If Iran’s regime didn’t fall last spring, Egypt’s won’t fall now.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 2:35 pm

        Who cares? He probably found people easier to bully somewhere else. I’ll bet he’s trolling on Huffington Post right now. They love that sort of behavior over there.

      • Taxi
        March 22, 2011, 2:54 pm

        yonira’s been banned for his targeting and systematic covert sexist attacks on my personal life, which I duly pointed out to the moderators and provided them with evidence.

        And yes seafoid, nothing yonira ever said was ever sincere, smart or true.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 6:11 pm

        That sounds awful, Taxi. They really are beyond the pale, these people. Anyway, Israel is entering a period of crisis that will end in justice for everyone and that is what matters.

      • DBG
        March 22, 2011, 11:04 pm

        How will it end in justice for Israelis? You and taxi are the most outspoken for sending Jews back to Europe. How is that justice for an Israel who knows nothing else?

      • Taxi
        March 23, 2011, 8:10 am

        DBG,

        I don’t CARE what RELIGION the zionists in occupied Palestine are!!!!!!!!!!!!

        You guys came from europe and massacred the SEMETIC natives and STOLE their land so like what justice DO YOU think should be meted out to you?

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 12:34 pm

        James,

        It is so simple to come up with these examples because they are so common. A rudimentary search will easily allow you to find them.

        As for your allegations, I am non of the above.
        Fanaticism is forming the following argument:
        Look Americans, the settlers in the West Bank killed a child’s horse. Don’t you see that Israel therefore should not be supported?

        Is that a serious argument or incitement?

      • Cliff
        March 22, 2011, 12:39 pm

        Settlers do disgusting things all the time. Israel does disgusting things all the time. There is a context to these actions and we’ve put them in context.

        What you try to do is say ‘everyone does disgusting things, hence Israel should be left off the hook.’

        Once again, you are a sick person and I sincerely believe you need to spend some time outside your racist bubble in Israel and stop being such a megalomaniac.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 12:42 pm

        what key words did you use for your rudimentary search?

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 12:43 pm

        We are just witnessing the trickle-down effects of the Israeli government, through this photo of the slayed horse.

        it’ not incitement, it’s the result of Israeli policy.

        [You're too ingrained into Israel to realize
        what others see, and ultimately see what's wrong.
        It would be like Gadaffi wanted to reform himself,
        possible, but not likely. ]

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 1:01 pm

        Look Americans, the settlers in the West Bank killed a child’s horse. Don’t you see that Israel therefore should not be supported?

        Is that a serious argument or incitement?

        i’d like to point out who it was who first made this ‘incitement’ in the thread. it was you with your strawman.

        The person showing no shame is you……..The problem with your propaganda is that it follows these lines:
        1) Some Israelis treat animals badly
        Therefore:
        2) Israel as a state needs to be closed down
        3) Jews in the US should stop associating with it
        4) etc. etc.

        you said this to me but i had made no such statement. what i said was

        what are you talking about? both of your stories show the perpetrator will be serving sentences for their crime. is israel even investigating this? must you continually show your callous insensitivity. do you know no shame?

        you should review the hasbara handbook. there is a chapter called ‘just walk away:when not to engage’ pg 31. scroll down to the section on ‘when the debate is set up badly’. it is about being able to control the terms of the debate. there’s only so many ways one can argue on the side of killing a child’s pet in front of him. it’s sadism eee. there was no threat from the horse and no real lesson to be learned here.

        so you take this gruesome act and say we’re using incitement.

        fail

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 1:04 pm

        it shouldn’t take you longer to tell me what words you used for your rudimentary search than it did to do the rudimentary search.

        you wouldn’t want people to get the impression you had to email headquarters.

        my guess is that when this story appeared here yesterday somebodies little munchkins set to work figuring out counter arguments and sent them out on one of the listserves just in case the issue came up again.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 1:05 pm

        This is why I’m pretty sure eee isn’t paid to do this. Well, it wouldn’t surprise me if wasn’t sitting in some fanatic school somewhere in the West Bank getting a government stipend to learn how to be a Jewish terrorist, but they aren’t really paying him to poison the well here, per se.

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 1:56 pm

        Just try searching “animal cruelty” in google news.
        You are completely paranoid.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 2:34 pm

        Try searching “babies,” “children” and “white phosphorous” in the same search.

    • Citizen
      March 22, 2011, 12:57 pm

      Eee, yes, let’s consider who stooped to what level and whether or not justice was served, whether fully, poorly, or not at all:

      The New Zealander who overzealously beat the horse to get it to load (as per the instructions of the former owner) had been remorseful, co-operative with the owner and had paid vet bills and restitution. There’s no evidence what he did was in any way aided or abetted by the state of New Zealand. Nor that the incident was other than solitary. The same can be said about Ireland and the Irishman who pleaded guilty at court to three counts of cruelly ill-treating two donkeys and a horse (by giving them no food or water while keeping them penned up) and who was remanded in custody pending sentencing.

      The illegal Israeli squatters (probably from Brooklyn) attacked the 11 year old native son Ayman, took his horse, tied a cable around its neck and after trying to asphyxiate the animal, they broke its head in front of the eyes and horror of Ayman and his friends. They did this because the natives were all banned by Israel from using the nearby spring water for themselves or their animals. Previously both his sisters and his mother had been attacked by the illegal squatters. Currently the squatters are stealing yet more land and bulldozing it to expand their illegal settlement, again all under de facto and color of Israeli law.

      Eee, with you as the defender of Israel, Israel does not need any enemies. Keep up the good work!

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 6:15 pm

        I think the response of the decent people on this site to poor Ayman’s story has been magnificent. These stories, and there are so many of them, build up into a consistent narrative of an ideology that is adrift from morality.

  4. Taxi
    March 22, 2011, 11:33 am

    May the evil trespassing transgressing settlers be trampled on by one thousand and one Arabian horses.

    May this story go viral and further expose the cruelty and senseless violence of the israeli occupiers and land thieves.

    • Walid
      March 22, 2011, 4:48 pm

      “… May the evil trespassing transgressing settlers be trampled on by one thousand and one Arabian horses.”

      I’m glad I’m not on your wrong side; wouldn’t want one of your hexes on me. For a while, I had a forum Jewish friend with a voodoo doll of me that she would stick a needle into whenever my anti-Zionist comments made her angry. I was in constant pain.

  5. Mooser
    March 22, 2011, 11:52 am

    Ziocaine is a self-created chemical messenger, like a hormone or serotonin, which creates temporary feelings of supremacy, self-righteousness, and the most glutinous form of self-gratifying pseudo-persecution. To those not afflicted with this syndrome, the effects appear pretty much like those of chronic alcohol and cocaine abuse.
    A ziocaine “high” usually procedes to the “blackout” stage during which the unfortunate addict has no control over his mouth or his thoughts or his actions. This is typically followed by amnesia, which allows them to come back tomorrow and do it all over again.

    • Mooser
      March 22, 2011, 11:54 am

      Parents, you can very easily see here what happens to a brain on ziocaine. Don’t let your children get started on it.

    • Chu
      March 22, 2011, 12:26 pm

      Do all Jews carry this zio-endorphin, or is it a learned addiction from hebrew school, or coming away from Jewish holidays (like baruch goldstein during Purim)?

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 12:44 pm

        It’s injected in school, I’m sure. I find it curious, though. Catholic schools in the US were set up so that Catholic children wouldn’t have to be taught a WASP-y perspective that denigrated their religion. Presumably Jewish schools were set up for the same reason. But Catholic schools never crossed any lines in terms of national pride or political indoctrination (social indoctrination, maybe, but that was very crumbled by the time I went through school and it may be gone now, considering the Westboro Baptist freaks protested my high school the last time they were in town.)

        I mean, Catholic school never required me to put the Vatican first, never made my religious conviction a matter of how much money and rhetoric I donate to the Catholic lobby (I’m not even sure there is a lobby, exactly, that is separate from the native Church hierarchy). Money we donated at Mass went to upkeeping churches here at home, went to supporting our clergy here, and the rest goes to charitible pursuits (mostly local.)

        It’s bizarre to see Jews in a comparable positions as Catholics were, at the same time in history (in WW1 we were the target de jeure in Bismark’s Germany) and yet we didn’t feel compelled to construct a whole nationality around our culture that would compete with our US citizenship in that way. There is no longer any sort of Papal Army that would be analogous to the IDF.

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 1:20 pm

        “Presumably Jewish schools were set up for the same reason.”

        Exactly what do you mean by “Jewish schools”. As far as I know there are very few of those in the US. There are public schools, there are private schools (some of which may be favored by Jews, or even market to them) and there are religious schools, run by temples, or organisations for the purpose.
        So I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “Jewish schools”.
        There is a wide disparity in the amount and type of religious education among Jews in the US.

      • Walid
        March 22, 2011, 4:33 pm

        Chaos, 10% of the parish church’s revenues go to the diocese, 10% of the diocese’s revenues to the provincial archdiocese, 10% of the provincial archdiocese’s revenues to the Vatican. In the US, revenues are about $100 billion so you were unknowingly contributing to the Vatican.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 4:41 pm

        I didn’t know the exact numbers but I know some money goes to the Vatican. Out of that 10% at the next stage up, the same rubric as I laid out applies.

        Yeah, I didn’t think the Vatican existed in a vacuum, thank you. 90% of the money remains local at each level. Can the same be said for Zionist Jewish funding structures?

      • Walid
        March 22, 2011, 5:03 pm

        I have no idea how the Jewish system works. In the church one, politics and finances play a part as parish churches are sometimes shifted from one diocese to another, especially the top earners that bishops try to get shifted to their dioceses for obvious reasons. 10% of very little isn’t very much.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 1:10 pm

        Do all Jews carry this zio-endorphin

        come on chu. these are the fundie settlers, they are on special meds. let’s not devolve into questioning if every jew strangles childrens pets.

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 3:22 pm

        the question was for mooser and you missed the spirit of ziocane analysis. Although, the point about Baruch does have some ziocane relevance. Don’t you think?

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 7:14 pm

        baruch probably shot up once an hr.

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 1:17 pm

        No, you have to catch it, or rather, learn the behaviors and emotional states which produce it, from Zionists. As to what proportion of Jewish religious education is actually a Zionist indoctrination, and training in producing ziocaine, I have no idea. Mine sure wasn’t, but I got most of it before the ’67 war, in which the Israelis apparently discovered hitherto unexplored and limitless reserves of it.

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 1:27 pm

        And I’m not necessarily endorsing the “endorphim” theory. I think it depresses the vagus nerve, but I’m still waiting for grant money. Like I say, if some foundation would advance me $2 million for research, I would start by flying to Israel, and keep right on going.

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 2:20 pm

        it would be a worthy study. Settlers in the wild and such.

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 6:53 pm

        The vagus nerve cuts down oxygen flowing (in the blood) to the brain. That’s why fainting occurs. Nature’s way of allowing us to avoid harsh reality.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 1:22 pm

        naw, Chu, it’s mostly Saudi-funded madrassahs that teach religious hatred. I’m not sure that it’s an Arab failure, it’s just some of them that are bigoted and gross. Probably not at all genetic.

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 2:22 pm

        I didn’t say hatred…

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 2:31 pm

        “Chu, it’s mostly Saudi-funded madrassahs that teach religious hatred.”

        Ah, so “Saudi-funded madrassahs” made those settlers kill that horse. Okay, got that. You’ll try anything to keep the blood-level down in your ziocaine-stream, won’t you?

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 2:33 pm

        I’m not sure that it’s an Arab failure

        “I’m not sure that it’s an African American failure…”
        “I’m not sure it’s a Native American failure…”
        “I’m not sure that it’s a homosexual failure…”
        “I’m not sure it’s a Polish failure…”
        “I’m not sure it’s a Jewish failure…”

        You’re cut from the same cloth.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 3:02 pm

        As long as you amuse yourself speculating about “Do all Jews carry this zio-endorphin” the hatred is pretty apparent.

      • kapok
        March 22, 2011, 3:13 pm

        Again with the “hatred”. The hateful are hated, d’uh!

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 3:16 pm

        I don’t blame the whole Jewish people for what a massive failure you are, fuster. That’s all you.

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 3:17 pm

        Fuster, get real with your baseless accusations. I am replying to his joke. Hatred is bred from idealogies like Zionism that produce the David Horowitzes, while people in Brooklyn come to clap for his inane racism on a public campus. That is something on a whole nuther level.

        *Baruch Goldstein was in effect a suicide bomber that day, pumped up on religious ziocane- insane he was.

    • hophmi
      March 22, 2011, 5:08 pm

      Another name for Zio-caine is history.

      Mooser is one of those who has learned nothing from it.

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 7:00 pm

        Actually, hophmi, Mooser has the anti-dote for Zio-caine. He believes “Never Again!” means universally or not at all. Only a crazy person confuses his or her drug of choice, and/or drugged choice with history.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 7:19 pm

        well, Citizen, that’s not what it means.

        here’s the real poop.

        link to ashahed.blogs.finalcall.com

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 7:48 pm

        “Never Again!”

        I’m not sure what that means actually, but I know my wife keeps on looking at me and saying it. Maybe she’s learning something from history?

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 8:17 pm

        Daily Bahrain: Israel expands illegal settlement in Jordan Valley
        11/05/2010 01:06:09 PM GMT

        Tubas, May 11 (BNA) Observers in the Jordan Valley reported dozens of trucks loaded with construction materials entering the illegal Israeli settlement of Nahal Maskyyot, followed by trucks full or workers building homes despite a government freeze.
        The Save the Jordan Valley Campaign said trucks of wood and cement entered the settlement on Sunday, and noted construction was visible from parts of the northern area. Israel’s Civil administration confirmed in an official statement that, “The construction was approved by the Civil Administration through the director of the Defense Ministry on the same day that the suspension order started,” but declined to specify what the construction was. E M BNA 0733 GMT 2010/05/11
        ¬

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 8:29 pm

        Naw, fuster–here’s the real poop: link to query.nytimes.com

        Nobody wants to be oven toast, a cotton-picking slave, or a helpless Palestinian boy like Ayman. Perhaps you should look at some of those books chocked with photos of everyday life in the Warsaw Ghetto and then go visit the Israeli OT. Might stretch your imagination & empathy a tad.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 8:43 pm

        when Kahane was murdered, it didn’t cause me any grief.

        but I’m not going to compare the OT with the Warsaw Ghetto,Cit, unless you mean conditions in the Ghetto long before the war.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 8:54 pm

        how long? what year?

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 9:08 pm

        1787 is a good one.

      • annie
        March 23, 2011, 9:26 am

        1787 is a good one.

        don’t waste my time with your denial.

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 7:47 pm

        Well, hophni, we all can’t be as smart as you. So tell me, I’m all ears, what didn’t I learn from history?

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 7:53 pm

        Besides, Hophmi, old fellow, nobody could put me in a death camp. I’m way too cute, and can render all their favorites in soulful Hammond Organ arrangments. My Mother-in-law says my medley of “Tenessee Waltz” with “Are you Washed in the Blood” makes her forget I am Jewish.

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 8:36 pm

        Tell her not to worry, you’re only a “residual” Jew, not an “active” Jew. Give her Witty’s blog url so she learns the difference. She will be thrilled to live and learn such hothouse stuff. Amazing grace.

      • Hu Bris
        March 22, 2011, 9:37 pm

        Besides, Hophmi, old fellow, nobody could put me in a death camp. I’m way too cute, and can render all their favorites in soulful Hammond Organ arrangments.

        there’s a very dark comedic screenplay in that there, somewhere.

      • Taxi
        March 22, 2011, 9:48 pm

        That’s a good one Hu Bris LOL I totally see/hear it – like an Ibsenian vaudevillian musical.

  6. eee
    March 22, 2011, 12:00 pm

    Phil,

    Are you so desperate and insecure about your position that you have to resort to incitement? You are not acting like someone that has confidence that his view will prevail on its merits.

    • Chaos4700
      March 22, 2011, 12:11 pm

      And now the flood of ad hominems start. It isn’t “incitement” to show how Israelis really behave. And thanks for your enlightening contribution to the insight into the lack of Israeli compassion and morality, eee.

    • fuster
      March 22, 2011, 12:18 pm

      eee, there’s no defense for killing that horse. it’s an action that’s classic villiany. it’s like something from a movie, it’s so lousy.

      it reminds me of a scene from a movie, but I can’t remember which one.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 12:25 pm

        Considering it’s ethnically motivated violence from a group of invaders stripping property from their victims and humiliating them out of pure malice, maybe you’re thinking of, “The Pianist,” fuster.

      • eee
        March 22, 2011, 12:28 pm

        Fuster,

        Who is defending the killing of the horse? It was a despicable act. But it was an act by individuals and any attempt to frame an argument against a state of 7 million people by the actions of a few is incitement.

        In Chicago there is an epidemic of children being shot:
        link to articles.cnn.com

        Is that a reason to incite against people from Chicago? This epidemic has been going on for years.

      • Cliff
        March 22, 2011, 12:43 pm

        Israel has been colonizing and stealing Palestinian land for decades upon decades.

        This disgusting act is one of a long line of disgusting acts by settlers, and it is representative of the settlers. Protected by the criminal IDF. This crime will likely result in a slap on the wrist or go unpunished like so many crimes perpetrated by Israelis and the colonists in the W. Bank.

        You get away with murder and you cry bloody murder.

        I remember when Israel was caught with the organ trafficking scandal and other Zios also tried to obfuscate/disassemble too!

        There is NO depths to which you will sink to downplay your cult’s depravity. You only look ‘normal’ to other crazies who think it’s ok to steal and murder to get what you want.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 12:47 pm

        The difference is, in Chicago, when you shoot a child you get a prison sentence.

        In Israel, when you shoot a child, you get a military commendation.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 12:54 pm

        “Is that a reason to incite against people from Chicago?”

        False analogy.

        If it were Canadians illegally occupying Chicago and committing that crime, and committing them for sport or covetousness and did so based on bigoted motives, bigotry which was in unseparable part of the prevailing ideology of Canada, then, yes, it probably would be grounds for inciting bad feelings and rightious indignation against Canada in general and the Canadians directly responisble, specifically. (Thankfully Canandians are civilized.)

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 1:04 pm

        eee, sometimes it’s best to understand things for what they are.

        It’s Lawrence of Arabia! that’s the movie I was trying to remember. somebody says the water is owned by his family and it’s not to be shared by others. don’t think it was the horse that got killed in the movie, but it’s about the same thing.

        barbarism isn’t that uncommon, but devolving into it renders people less than fully human.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 1:09 pm

        And what happens when it becomes a matter of government policy, fuster, like it is in Israel? When it takes the form of a fleet of armored bulldozers and prison camps holding thousands of people?

      • Light
        March 22, 2011, 1:15 pm

        eee, the difference is in the territories the Israeli government does not investigate crimes against Palestinians. And don’t put words in other peoples mouths. No one is inciting against the Israeli people, I am opposed to the laws and the government apparatus that favors one ethnic group and actively oppresses another.

      • Potsherd2
        March 22, 2011, 1:51 pm

        In Chicago, the street gangs are persued by the law. In Israel, the gangs have impunity from the law. That’s the problem.

        I don’t suppose there’s a video of the horse killing? I’d really like it if, before anyone can make a contribution to Israel or Israeli causes, they had to sit through the video. And if it were shown in Congress before any vote on pro-Israeli resolutions.

        eee, of course, would have no problem watching.

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 1:37 pm

        “eee, there’s no defense for killing that horse. it’s like something from a movie, it’s so lousy”

        “It’s Lawrence of Arabia! that’s the movie I was trying to remember. somebody says the water is owned by his family and it’s not to be shared by others. don’t think it was the horse that got killed in the movie, but it’s about the same thing.”

        So is that a defense, or just a gratuitous racial swipe at Arabs? Somehow, I think it’s both.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 1:47 pm

        there’s no defense for killing the horse and no defense for thinking that such actions are unique.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 2:20 pm

        And no defense for thinking that anyone “just left” or “made an unfortunate choice” that brought this sort of racism down upon them.

      • MRW
        March 22, 2011, 4:56 pm

        It’s more than killing a horse. It’s killing a child…inside.

      • hophmi
        March 22, 2011, 5:10 pm

        “It’s more than killing a horse. It’s killing a child…inside.”

        No. Killing a child inside is more what happens when you stab it to death and slit its throat open.

        This is killing a horse.

      • DBG
        March 22, 2011, 5:16 pm

        Are we sure it was settlers? not a foreign worker? or an inside job?

      • MRW
        March 22, 2011, 6:09 pm

        Hophmi’s psychological insight:

        No. Killing a child inside is more what happens when you stab it to death and slit its throat open.

        This is killing a horse.

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 7:10 pm

        Right, fuster, cruelty is not unique, whether applied to animals or humans. So why are the Germans still paying reparations? And why did they have to pay them in the first place? No difference between somebody being a bully in the home and the same person being one as a head of an organization, a tribe, a state, even a highly industrialized state.

      • Hu Bris
        March 22, 2011, 7:49 pm

        “Hophmi’s psychological insight:”

        no, that was Hophmi’s psychopathic insight

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 7:51 pm

        because they lost, you silly Cit.

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 8:42 pm

        Then why do some holocaust museums give visitors the pic and ID of an individual who use to live in those camps? Seems the museum’s premise is that something lives inside each visitor that has to be brought more to life.

        How about depriving a bird of its winged ability to fly, its wing feathers, but allowing it to live? That’s not killing the bird either. You cherish that too, fuster?

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 7:19 pm

        it reminds me of a scene from a movie, but I can’t remember which one.

        the godfather

    • Chu
      March 22, 2011, 12:22 pm

      His view will prevail, regardless of what he posts.
      Worry about your settler relatives, not about Phil’s
      desperation. You are the one who’s desperate, changing
      the subject every posting.

    • alyas
      March 22, 2011, 12:39 pm

      @ eee

      Are you for real? Do you honestly not see why this is a heinous thing to do and why it is specifically very different from the examples you linked to? This is hate crime pure and simple and nothing you will say can whitewash that fact.

      It’s truly bewildering – how much hate in one’s heart does it take to not only murder an animal (by suffocation!!) but do it to spite a child.

      This reminds me of something I read in Joe Sacco’s ‘Palestine’, an excerpt that both moved me to tears and enraged me, about an incident Sacco witnessed and illustrated as such:

      “…and I remember another time in Jerusalem a month later…a group of Israeli soldiers stopped a Palestinian youth of 12 or 13…the soldiers took cover under an awning and they made the boy remove his keffiyeh and pointed to where he should stand – in the rain…

      Perhaps for the boy it was one of dozens of humiliations, bad enough in his personal scheme of things, but no worse than others he’d experienced…I don’t know…and I’d come for the occupation and I found what I’d come to find, and here it was again, and something else, too…

      The boy stood there and answered their questions, and what choice did he have?

      But what was he thinking?

      Was it, one day it will be a better world and these soldiers and I will greet each other as neighbors?

      Or was it simply, one day – one day!

      And beyond the particular abuses of this time and place, beyond the really big questions – the status of Jerusalem, the future of the settlements, the return of the refugees, etc.- which must be raised and then hurdled if there ever is to be peace here, is something else – a boy standing in the rain, and what is he thinking?

      And if I’d guessed before I got here, and found with little astonishment once I’d arrived, what can happen to someone who thinks he has all the power, what of this – what becomes of someone when he believes himself to have none?”

  7. seafoid
    March 22, 2011, 1:33 pm

    link to haaretz.com

    Israel murders 4 non Jewish children. One more than the dead Folger settlers.

    “Regrettably non-combatants were hurt” says Israel

    Regrettably the Folgers were killed.

    Should Hamas now implement a “price tag” policy ?

  8. jonah
    March 22, 2011, 1:52 pm

    The murder of children seems to me much more despicable than the killing of a horse. The barbaric murder of the Itamar family is the latest of a long trail of such inhuman acts. Can I now say that the Palestinians as a whole are criminals? I can’t and I don’t want even to consider this idea – even though it’s a fact that such acts have a long tradition in Palestinian terrorism against Israel. Yet, you Israel-haters repeat exactly that sick pattern of pure hatred over and over again with every single opportunity, even without a shred of hard evidence, in order to bash and demonize Israel as a whole. Doing so, think for a moment what kind of image of yourself you send to others. Believe me: it’s not flattering at all.

    • annie
      March 22, 2011, 2:03 pm

      The murder of children seems to me much more despicable than the killing of a horse. The barbaric murder of the Itamar family is the latest of a long trail of such inhuman acts.

      i agree the murder of children is much more despicable than killing a horse. but i’m missing the point you made about the ‘long trail of such inhuman acts’ even without a shred of hard evidence. how can you establish this long trail if you don’t know who did it? and are you suggesting the witnesses to the horse killing are liars?

    • Chu
      March 22, 2011, 2:14 pm

      That’s the problem with Israel’s propaganda messages. No one is buying it any longer. We know the settler aggressions occur on a regular basis. This site has documented it as such over the years. You
      cant whitewash this and call people who visit this site haters;
      it’s just desperate of you to throw in the towel like this.

      [where is your evidence that it wasn't done by settlers?
      Because you're changing the subject without noting the barbarism of the act, who would you suspect could do this?]

    • Donald
      March 22, 2011, 2:14 pm

      It’s true that the Israeli murder of Palestinian children and the Palestinian murder of Israeli children are both worse. And it’s true that both are acts with long traditions–of course, much of the time the Israelis do their child killing in plausibly deniable ways, but that’s an act of Western depravity, to do the crime and then pretend that the fact that you used advanced technology takes away the sin.

      So what was your point again? Demonization? Yeah, it’s really bad to imply that only one side in this conflict murders children. Stop doing that.

    • Chaos4700
      March 22, 2011, 2:18 pm

      Jackass? The police are investigating the imported workforce. The murderer probably wasn’t even Palestinian — but that won’t stop you from taking it out on them, will it?

      It’s sickening that you’re using this as a Gleiwitz incident to justify your attacks on the Palestinians, you racist psychopath.

      • DBG
        March 22, 2011, 11:10 pm

        I don’t think they are, that was only reported in the PA mouthpiece Maan news.

    • MRW
      March 22, 2011, 4:59 pm

      The murder of children seems to me much more despicable than the killing of a horse.

      You killed the kid who owned that horse….for life.

      The Itamar family wasn’t killed by a Palestinian. It was an Asian worker upset that the father wouldn’t pay what he was owed. Some reports say it was a Thai.

      • Danaa
        March 22, 2011, 5:57 pm

        MRW, you seem pretty sure of the foreign worker as a killer. I tend to the scenario of an inside job myself because the details of how the killer managed to get into the compound + family’s house and the strange nature of the murder scene. Of course, we have no proof and I do find the silence of the investigation peculiar. What I worry about is that if it did turn out to be a foreign worker, I have a feeling the Israeli investigators surely must already have the incriminating evidence (finger prints etc), but they may choose not to reveal what they know for quite some time – as settler pogroms are allowed to go on.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 6:53 pm

        this is my instinct too danaa

      • MRW
        March 22, 2011, 7:34 pm

        Exactly, Danaa. You think the family would let a Palestinian inside the house? I know I come across as ‘sure’ but that’s the nature of having to type quickly when I should, be doing something else, like work. But I remember the original wire service on it. When the thing would be to blame a Palestinian out of the gate, especially if 100% true, the first wire reports was that it was an Asian.

        “I do find the silence of the investigation peculiar.”
        Absolutely.

    • Danaa
      March 22, 2011, 5:33 pm

      jonah, how dare you make light of the torture and killing of a horse? As a horse lover and a sometime PETA supporter, I should really report you as scum – as upporter of abuse and mistreatment of animals AND children. People who can do that to helpless, innocent animals are utterly disgusting. One wonder what values they teach their children.

      I heard that most ultra-orthodox despise animals and don’t keep pets. No wonder the religious zealots care not a hoot for the suffering of animals – or any human who is not from their tribe. I cannot understand why the settlers are not treated as outlaws by every civilized people in the world including real Jews and actual israelis. In the US these murderous kozaks would have been hauled off to jail and made to pay restitution for animal abuse. Not to mention child abuse.

      Personally, I lost every shred of respect for the israeli soldiers when I saw that picture f the dead donkey in gaza and heard of the laughter of chicken and the shooting f animal in the Gaza zoo.

      This is the rotten apple produced in “holy land”. Enjoy the fruit, jonah.

      • MRW
        March 22, 2011, 6:13 pm

        I cannot understand why the settlers are not treated as outlaws by every civilized people in the world including real Jews and actual israelis.

        Thank you, Danaa. I could not agree more. Jesus, to this day I remember the night my dog died when I was nine. I still see from inside my eyes the light cracking through the bedroom door into the dark. I just stared at that crack of light until something put me to sleep.

  9. Citizen
    March 22, 2011, 2:21 pm

    —snip—
    Violence can be justified according to the ends that it pursues (for instance, as an act of self-defense). There can be violence between equals. Cruelty, on the other hand, can never be justified because it is the intentional infliction of . . . pain on individuals who are in a position of weakness. . . . [Cruelty] has a visceral, irrational, and irrevocable quality about it. It is the bedrock under all the layers of horrible things that human beings do to one another. . . . It is political in cause and universal in effect. Its mere occurrence is an affront to everyone’s humanity.

    –snip–
    These are photographs of terror: not terror as an ideology but as a practice and, most of all, an experience. And regardless of what is known by the victims about their fate, these are photographs that depict human relations based on the unfettered cruelty of the powerful and the utter helplessness of those they have caught. What is so horrible about these images, then, is not always the images themselves—though sometimes they are unbearable—but the contexts in which they were taken, which is to say the histories to which they attest. These are photographs of those who dwell in what Jean Améry called “the waiting room of death.”

    –snip–
    Photographs might not elucidate the great forces of history—they may even be, as Barthes charged, “impotent with regard to general ideas”—but they are awfully good at showing us the eggs that are broken to make the omelet of history. (In this case, Palestinian eggs broken to make the omelet of Zionist history.)

    See here for the meaning of reaction to snapshots of another omelet being made once upon a time: link to bostonreview.net

    I wonder if Aman and his friends should start wearing white armbands with green crescents on them? In the Warsaw Ghetto they wore ones with blue stars on them. They weren’t gifts.

  10. hophmi
    March 22, 2011, 2:32 pm

    Didn’t a Palestinian just stab a 3-month-old baby to death? And a 4-year-old too?

    Didn’t see links to pictures of them on this blog.

    Oh right, you’re all questioning the veracity of the story because no one was arrested yet, and there is a long history of Thai terrorists in Israel.

    I question the veracity of this story.

    • Chaos4700
      March 22, 2011, 2:43 pm

      I take it you’re supporting the witch hunts against Arabs and Muslims in the Republican Congress too? “You must be at least this Arab to be a terrorist.”

      You racist traitors make me sick. You’ve mutilated the United States and everything it stands for. Come back and talk when you say something about the HUNDREDS of children who were slaughtered wholesale under Israeli bombs and mortars and machine gun fire in 2008.

      • hophmi
        March 22, 2011, 2:51 pm

        “I take it you’re supporting the witch hunts against Arabs and Muslims in the Republican Congress too? ”

        I don’t, but keep being a complete ass.

        “You racist traitors make me sick. You’ve mutilated the United States and everything it stands for.”

        You antisemites make me sick. You hate Jews and try to wrap yourself in the flag.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 3:10 pm

        I don’t hate Phil Weiss. I don’t hate Medea Benjamin. I don’t hate Avi Shlaim. I don’t hate Noam Chomsky.

        Please, do explain that.

      • jonah
        March 22, 2011, 4:06 pm

        But you hate ALL Israeli Jews and ALL Jews who support Israel in principle (the so-called “Zionists”). That means 99% of Jews worldwide. This explanation should be enough to explain the nature of your hatred.

        BTW: There is a huge difference between Israel’s violent actions and Palestinian terror. The latter targets deliberately and indiscriminately civilians on the other side, as the Itamar and many other cases of killings show. Israel, by contrast, targets in the first place the terrorists and their infrastructure, not civilians. It’s the Palestinian terrorism which hides among the own civilians and misuse them as a shield for its criminal activities, exposing them to the reactions of the IDF. They are, as this is regrettable, the collateral victims of the dirty war conducted by the terrorists, moreover propagandistically exploited and sublimated in the myth of martyrdom.

        Turn reality into its opposite is nothing but lies and propaganda for the purpose of incitement to hatred against Israel. Pathetic.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 5:11 pm

        “Israel, by contrast, targets in the first place the terrorists and their infrastructure, not civilians.”

        Go sell that nonsense among ignorant Americans. They’re dumb and uneducated enough to believe it. No one else is.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 5:11 pm

        Goddamn it. Let me try again.

        I hate Zionists, because Zionists put Palestinians into ghettos, force them out of their places of birth, round them up into vast prison camps housing thousands, steal their property and only authorize citizenship in their empire for a privileged ethnic group. I hate Zionists because you kill children by the hundreds with no sense of remorse. I hate Zionists because you hate and hate and hate, and I know one day, people like me (homosexuals) will be a target for your extremist hatred, like we already are when it comes to housing laws rattling through the Knesset.

        There’s a four letter word for what you are, but apparently, I’m not allowed to use it.

      • Potsherd2
        March 22, 2011, 5:13 pm

        Pathetic is the hasbarist resort to cliches.

        You hit just about the whole scale there, hophmi.

      • mig
        March 22, 2011, 5:27 pm

        jonah :

        But you hate ALL Israeli Jews and ALL Jews who support Israel in principle (the so-called “Zionists”).

        ++++ Old trick. We dont buy that one. Try this in some other site.

        That means 99% of Jews worldwide. This explanation should be enough to explain the nature of your hatred.

        ++++ LOL.

        BTW: There is a huge difference between Israel’s violent actions and Palestinian terror.

        ++++ Yes there is. More palestinians are killed than Israelis.

        The latter targets deliberately and indiscriminately civilians on the other side, as the Itamar and many other cases of killings show.

        ++++ Majority of killed palestinians are civilians.

        Israel, by contrast, targets in the first place the terrorists and their infrastructure, not civilians.

        ++++ And by miracle, civilians die all day long. Maybe aiming is not so good in IDF.

        It’s the Palestinian terrorism which hides among the own civilians

        ++++ Or that other explanation, that civilians are truly the target.

        and misuse them as a shield for its criminal activities, exposing them to the reactions of the IDF.

        ++++ Because they cant say that they really target civilians. Thats why this “hiding among civilians” bs was created in first place.

        They are, as this is regrettable,

        ++++ THE famous crocodile tears….

        the collateral victims

        ++++ And now come civilians as target again…

        of the dirty war conducted by the terrorists, moreover propagandistically exploited and sublimated in the myth of martyrdom.

        ++++ Every nation is cheering the ultimate sacrifice = giving their life for freedom etc.

        Turn reality into its opposite is nothing but lies and propaganda for the purpose of incitement to hatred against Israel. Pathetic.

        ++++ You can stop that lying and propaganda at any time.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 5:47 pm

        Blowing 4 kids up with a missile can never be spun . It is insane. It is inhuman.

        “Exposing them to the reactions of the IDF”. Is that supposed to excuse the murder of 4 children ?

        the world doesn’t see any difference between Gaza and Itamar.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 5:52 pm

        1 dead child may be an accident. 300 is a policy.

      • DBG
        March 22, 2011, 6:02 pm

        Yeah they do seafoid. The settlers house wasn’t being used as a staging ground for firing missiles @ civilians. Hamas fired Qassams from the exact same location the children were at. That is a war crime and Hamas is responsible.

      • jonah
        March 22, 2011, 6:12 pm

        “I know one day, people like me (homosexuals) will be a target for your extremist hatred,”

        That was odd, chaos. Homosexuals are still far more safe in Israel than anywhere in Middle East, not to mention in the Palestinian territories. link to news.bbc.co.uk
        Could be revealing of a general distorted view of the reality in ME. Blaming the other side for its own flaws. Nothing new.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 6:21 pm

        Jonah

        I thought you were going to say the horse died in a Palestinian honor killing. Or else mention the Shoah and those evil German horses. I think you covered the rest of the hasbara .

      • jonah
        March 22, 2011, 6:51 pm

        “Blowing 4 kids up with a missile can never be spun . It is insane. It is inhuman. ”

        Try to understand, seafoid. The IDF was responding to terror attacks by Jihad-extremists, which are now lasting several days. link to jpost.com
        These mens and the organisations behind know very well that there will be a Israeli response to their fire. Civilian casualities are the victims are part of the calculation of the extremists. This serves their political interests and propaganda. A dirty war game, played with the well-known dishonest and nasty means, and that victimizes its own people.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 7:00 pm

        Hamas fired Qassams from the exact same location the children were at.

        source?

        That is a war crime and Hamas is responsible.

        although israel would like to change international law to make civilian neighborhood military targets using this ‘logic’ there is no international law at this time stipulating this assertion of your. by all means source it if you can but you cannot.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 7:15 pm

        “Yeah they do seafoid. The settlers house wasn’t being used as a staging ground for firing missiles @ civilians. Hamas fired Qassams from the exact same location the children were at. That is a war crime and Hamas is responsible.”

        Even if everything you say here is true (which I doubt), it would still be an idictment against Israel. After hundreds of children have been killed by these unfortunate “accidents,” it must know that it’s actions would have the effect of killing innocent civilians.

        It morally cannot simply continue to act in the same way, with the same rules, and kill these children and babies. After the first time the “human shield” excuse was used, Israel was on notice. Continuing to proceed in the same fashion which has caused the lives of hundreds of innocent people is morally exactly the same as pointing a gun at a crowd and firing blindly. Exactly.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 7:37 pm

        “These mens and the organisations behind know very well that there will be a Israeli response to their fire. ”

        Even if this is true, it does not lessen the moral indictment of the I”D”F. If they cannot act without inflicting death on innocents, they have a moral obligation to choose other methods.

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 7:50 pm

        Witty might say the Jews you mention, Chaos, are merely “residual” Jews. Not “active” Jews, such as Witty and Hophmi and EEE. Perhaps this analogy is apt: You need a license to operate as a Jew, to practice being Jewish. Otherwise your status is “inactive,” and, like a retired attorney who wants to resume practice, you’d have to reapply to reinstate your license to actually practice law, to get your license activated by the proper authority. Witty’s like the head of the BAR. It’s pretty odd since this blog isn’t his.

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 8:10 pm

        no, not really. wars invariably result in the death of innocent people. the IDF’s primary responsibility isn’t not to act unless it can act without killing innocent people.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 8:16 pm

        oh yada yada w/your 8 year old link.

      • RoHa
        March 22, 2011, 8:27 pm

        I hate Zionists because they say “We matter and you don’t.”

      • jonah
        March 22, 2011, 8:31 pm

        So only Israel has the moral obligation to avoid the death of innocents, but not her foes. Interesting thought, Woody.

      • Citizen
        March 22, 2011, 8:48 pm

        Hey Woody, we Americans are also dumb enough to give the Israelis the means to be more surgical in their targeting. Kinda hard to precisely target anything with firecrackers. If you have the surgical instruments to target very precisely and opt to fire them less accurately, now there’s a real choice.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 23, 2011, 6:46 am

        Yes, really. Even if innocent people invariably die in war, states have a legal and certainly moral obligation to minimize such casualties. Murdering children because you can posit as “human shield”excuse that is believed by no one but idiot America does not comply with that obligation.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 23, 2011, 6:58 am

        Jonah, I did not say “only” Israel. I was speaking of Israel’s moral and legal failures, even assuming Hamas’ failings, as you posited. In other words, even if you are correct and Hamas bears a moral responsibility, that does not excuse Israel’s moral and legal responsibility for the murder of these children.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 23, 2011, 7:10 am

        Citizen, I actually don’t, in theory and with caveats, have an issue with the US selling precision munitions, if doing do will save lives. The problem is that Israel does not acct in a way that prevents civilian casualties and, instead relies on lies and spin to cover its murders. (The other caveats being that the Israel “buys” these weapons with the US taxpayers’ money, and the fact that the US limits the $3B in aid and weapons to one side of the conflict, which perpetuates the murders of civilians by the Israelis.)

    • Woody Tanaka
      March 22, 2011, 3:15 pm

      “Didn’t a Palestinian just stab a 3-month-old baby to death? And a 4-year-old too?”

      No one knows who committed that crime. But we do know that the terrorists in the Israeli Air Force just murdered five people for the crime of playing soccer…

      • RoHa
        March 22, 2011, 8:30 pm

        “No one knows who committed that crime.”

        That won’t stop hophmi from blaming a Palestinian. The presumption of innocence doesn’t apply to Arabs.

      • jonah
        March 22, 2011, 9:31 pm

        Probably someone knows very well, though……

        link to wnd.com

      • Potsherd2
        March 22, 2011, 9:49 pm

        Whoever wrote that only knows to smear through innuendo.

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 23, 2011, 6:51 am

        Really? WND?? That’s your source? A site that regularly features creationism, hated of Muslims and publishes pieces on alien abduction??

    • MRW
      March 22, 2011, 5:02 pm

      Didn’t a Palestinian just stab a 3-month-old baby to death? And a 4-year-old too?

      Hasbara. All the European reports say the it was an Asian worker; seemingly banned info here for the likes of you. The ONLY USA reports that mention a Palestinian say “allegedly.” Who would have access to a settler’s house but someone who worked for the family?

      • hophmi
        March 22, 2011, 5:25 pm

        “Hasbara. All the European reports say the it was an Asian worker”

        They do not. All that the European reports say is that foreign workers were questioned. The only sources claiming it was a foreign worker are Palestinian ones.

        The Guardian certainly doesn’t have this story.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 5:33 pm

        But you’re insisting beyond a shadow of a doubt that the murderer is Palestinian, and the only assertion you’ve offered is, “All of the murderers and terrorists are Palestinian!”

  11. seafoid
    March 22, 2011, 2:42 pm

    Hey Mondo dudes

    Would it not be possible for us to buy Ayman a new horse? I’d be happy to chip in $20. Is there anyone on the ground in Palestine who could deliver it?

    • Chaos4700
      March 22, 2011, 2:51 pm

      Count me in, although I suspect it will be next to impossible to get a horse through IDF checkpoints without it being confiscated or shot dead.

      • Taxi
        March 22, 2011, 3:04 pm

        The poor horse will have to go through the humiliation of being strip-searched at the getapo checkpointssssssss.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 3:23 pm

        chaos, there are probably already some horses inside the west bank. last i heard the zionists weren’t transferring all the horses out. i doubt one would have to be imported.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 3:29 pm

        What I said still applies. You’d still have to get the horse through IDF checkpoints. Not having to cross a border means merely there’s one fewer checkpoint.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 4:11 pm

        Yes. There are lots of horses in the West Bank.
        It would be great PR for the Palestinians too. Imagine an even better one. “US synagogue buys horse for Palestinian to replace the one killed by Jewish settlers”.

      • hophmi
        March 22, 2011, 5:01 pm

        OK, so here’s my advice. The Jewish Journal of LA did a story on Maskiyot and Jordan Valley Solidarity in 2008. The author was Daniel Hempel. It is a rather complex story.

        link to jewishjournal.com

        Most of Maskiyot, at least in 2008, was made up of people from Gaza. It is a settlement without a whole lot of public support in Israel, because it is far-flung and silly, and yes, the kind of settlement that makes peace more difficult.

        I would write to Rob Eshman, the EIC of the Jewish Journal, and send him the story. I obviously condemn this act regardless of who is responsible. I have made my views on settler incursions into Palestinian areas known to my friends in the Jewish community, and if this is an example of that, then I will post the story on my facebook page, as I did recently with the story about the deportation of foreign workers. Most of the people I know are horrified by stories like this, as, I bet, are most Israelis.

        You can also contact Heifer International, which deals with donating animals to poor regions of the world. I believe the

      • Woody Tanaka
        March 22, 2011, 5:32 pm

        “It is a rather complex story.”

        No, it’s a rather simple story; a bunch of evil bullies, hopped up on zionism, steal land from native Palestinians, protected by Uncle Sucker, the I”D”F and the world’s zionists. It’s the same simple story that’s been going on for 100 years.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 5:34 pm

        I’d rather contact the Hague. There’s bigger fish to fry.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 5:55 pm

        It is amazing that Ayman lives in a poor region of the world (GDP per head USD 3000) that is 5 minutes’ drive from the first world in the 2 nearest Jewish settlements (GDP per head USD 25,000).

    • hophmi
      March 22, 2011, 2:53 pm

      I’d be happy to chip in as well. Whoever or whatever killed Ayman’s horse, I agree that he deserves a new one.

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 3:11 pm

        Wonderful! Your prior donations funded the stipend of the murder that killed the first horse, and now you can pay for the second horse and the welfare of the next murderer at the same time!

        Talk about moral ambiguity.

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 3:26 pm

        that’s mean chaos, he just offered to chip in for a new horse.

        breathe

      • Chaos4700
        March 22, 2011, 3:27 pm

        Yes, I’m mean. But was what I said untrue?

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 3:32 pm

        oh well, i said that before i intercepted his comment accusing a palestinian of murdering those poor children in the same breath as lecturing us about antisemitism. yikes. i guess generalizing and false accusations about palestinians just fly right over his head.

      • kapok
        March 22, 2011, 3:18 pm

        ooh, and I agree: Little Orphan Annie deserves a home. Do I win the cheap sentiment slam?

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 3:28 pm

        Homphi you’re for occupying East Jerusalem and taking it from Palestinians, so why are you pretending to care about this kid’s horse? It’s like waving a check for a new charity in front of the crowd.

      • hophmi
        March 22, 2011, 5:10 pm

        “Homphi you’re for occupying East Jerusalem and taking it from Palestinians, so why are you pretending to care about this kid’s horse? It’s like waving a check for a new charity in front of the crowd.”

        You must all about horses, Chu, since the one you rode in on is sky-high. You should dismount.

      • Chu
        March 22, 2011, 5:23 pm

        you are in favor of Israel controlling East Jerusalem though?
        I just want to be clear on this point.

      • Mooser
        March 22, 2011, 8:01 pm

        Oh, how nice, Hophmi is learning from history.

    • annie
      March 22, 2011, 3:20 pm

      great idea!

    • Chu
      March 22, 2011, 3:31 pm

      seafoid,

      great idea, but that you know MI would stop it from occurring.
      At least it would be a good tester to see if it could work.

      Military Intelligence monitoring foreign left-wing organizations
      IDF officers say special department has been created to monitor left-wing groups that the army sees as aiming to delegitimize Israel; department will work closely with government ministries.

      • seafoid
        March 22, 2011, 4:13 pm

        But who could do it? Is there anyone on mondo ? Who has the best contacts?

      • annie
        March 22, 2011, 4:17 pm

        i know some palestinians i could write.

      • MRW
        March 22, 2011, 5:03 pm

        Is there a Western Union in Gaza?

      • fuster
        March 22, 2011, 5:37 pm

        there’s an organization called Heifer International and several others such as that.

        link to heifer.org

        Worldvision

        link to worldvision.org

        one of them might do it.

      • annie
        March 23, 2011, 7:28 am

        it just occurred to me the simplest way to get Ayman a new horse might be just to donate some money to jordan valley solidarity and ask them if they could arrange it. they have a pay pal right on their website. i’m writing them now.

    • MRW
      March 22, 2011, 5:02 pm

      GREAT IDEA

      Phil, can we make this a Mondoweiss project?

  12. optimax
    March 22, 2011, 4:01 pm

    Fuster,
    Omar Sharif shoots the man off his horse. I need to watch Lawrence of Arabia again. It’s a movie worth rewatching every few years.

    A few years ago there was a case were a US jury sent a man to prison for stabbing and killing his ex-girlfriend’s pet fish. To many this sounds absurd but the prosecutor proved that there is a correlation between killing a pet and subsequent murder of the victim. Killing the pet is a threat that preceeds the killing of the victim.

    I see the killing of the horse by the settlers as a threat which will most likely escalate to the murder of a human. This in no way means all Jews or Israelis are murderers or animal abusers. I’m sure Israel has animal abuse laws but the fact they will not investigate this abuse is just more proof that the state does not offer equal rights to Palestinians by allowing the settlers to terrorize them.

    • MRW
      March 22, 2011, 5:17 pm

      This in no way means all Jews or Israelis are murderers or animal abusers.

      But as someone pointed out above if some Canadians did that in Chicago, the words on our street here would be: “Canadians are [X].” We wouldn’t bother with the curlicues of niceties, the parentheticals. God knows, 3/4 of America did it to Arabs after 9/11, with Daniel Pipes and Bill Kristol and Jeffrey Goldberg leading the fray.

      But this is precisely what the settlers are counting on. It guarantees their impunity. They know that the fear of being called anti-semitic — anytime, anywhere — prevents them from being broad-brushed (“Israelis are fucking murderers.” “Jews are racist pigs.” Etc.) when it is implied in “Canadians are fucking murderers,” “Canadians are racist pigs” that it is not all Canadians. It’s an interesting dynamic. The only people, presently, who can hold these settlers to account are other Jews. And the roar should come from the United States because we are the seat of their financial assistance. [I'd be interested to know the nationality of the settlers who did this to that poor kid.]

      • Hu Bris
        March 22, 2011, 8:42 pm

        As far as I can tell, Moozer, judging by their words and deeds, all ‘settlers’/colonists ARE racist pigs, and also, according to numerous polls conducted by both Israeli and non-Israeli organisations, the majority of Jewish Israelis are also racist pigs

        “I’d be interested to know the nationality of the settlers who did this to that poor kid.]”

        Well according to themselves they self-identity as ‘Jewish’ ;-)

      • Hu Bris
        March 22, 2011, 9:17 pm

        “As far as I can tell, Moozer, . . . “ should read:“As far as I can tell, MRW, . . . “ . . . . obviously

      • DBG
        March 22, 2011, 11:07 pm

        How is that different than saying all Muslims are terrorists Hu Bris?

      • Hu Bris
        March 23, 2011, 10:01 am

        Well DBG it does not really surprise me that you struggle with this, given your already copiously demonstrated inability to understand some fairly basic concepts

        Now if I had said that “ALL Jews are racist” you might have a point but since I didn’t, you don’t – but then you not having a point is your default setting, as far as I can see.

        As far as I know, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, ALL Colonists/’settlers’ decide to move to these Colonies because they have a shared belief in Jewish racial supremacy.

        There may be a tiny minority of Colonists who move merely because of financial incentives, but if they are prepared to sit on stolen land and have a clean concience about it they they qualify as racist IMO.

        It is undeniable that the VAST majority of these colonists believe that the land was given to them by some mythical being and that their tribe was elevated by this mythical being. They believe that they and they alone were ‘chosen’ above all other tribes and that therefore they are ‘special’ and vastly superior to all others. The Talmud, which these people revere, is chock full of such statements. Too numerous to mention

        Many, if not all, of them seem to adhere to a creed which sees all other humans as ‘less than fully human’ and therefore their tribe can act as they please and do whatever they desire.

        In their opinion, no laws of morality apply to them in the same way that they might apply to others, because all others are sub-human.

        Hence they are undeniably racist.

        It’s simple enough to understand but as I said earlier I can see why YOU might struggle with it.

        As for the majority of Jewish Israelis being racist: there are so many polls indicating that the majority of Jewish Israelis hold views that are undeniably racist, that I couldn’t even be bothered to provide evidence to convince you, since if you are not aware of them by now it is because you have decided to ignore such evidence because it might interfere with you enjoyment of your Zio-caine

        As for your stupid claim that all Muslims are terrorists: such a statement is very simple to falsify since it is plainly obvious that all Muslims have not decided to become suicide bombers nor have there been any reports that all Muslims have suddenly decided to join Al Qaida

        Q.E.D.

        Any more stupid questions, DBG?

  13. Potsherd2
    March 22, 2011, 5:15 pm

    There was a scene like this in MORNINGS IN JENIN

    I wonder if the settlers read the book and decided to copycat.

  14. MRW
    March 22, 2011, 6:18 pm

    Annie, are you going to let us know about the horse project? I can’t even look at those pictures above.

    • annie
      March 22, 2011, 6:48 pm

      yes i will.

      • Taxi
        March 22, 2011, 8:16 pm

        Count me in – I’ll give a hundred bucks plus. Why not – I love horses and I love Palestine.

  15. optimax
    March 22, 2011, 7:22 pm

    mrw,

    I’m guilty as charged. I put the disclaimer in there out of an automatic response to head off being called antisemetic and, like most white Americans, do so when commenting on the negative actions of most minorities. It’s also true many Americans paint Arabs with a broad brush of racist comments without fear of reprisal. It’s done in the media all the time. Pointing out the FACT the Jews are the largest single group controlling the media is verboten. Only in an authoritarian society are facts and truth considered secrets. And secrets are power. It’s the Grand Inquisitor that never dies.

    • MRW
      March 23, 2011, 2:30 am

      We’re all guilty as charged, optimax. We’re enablers. Liked your analogy of the Grand Inquisitor.

  16. Mooser
    March 22, 2011, 8:11 pm

    Gosh, I wish hophmi would tell me what I didn’t learn from history!
    I can’t imagine what it is! And if I don’t know I’m doomed to repeat it, right? First time as farce, second time as tragedy, they say, so that’s some compensation, anyway.

    • Taxi
      March 22, 2011, 8:30 pm

      You didn’t learn to OBEY, Mooser.

      I don’t what the heck we gonna with you?!

      :-)

      • Mooser
        March 23, 2011, 12:21 pm

        Gee, and I thought history taught me that making your religion the basis of your political identity was a bad idea. And that settler-colonial projects come to a bad end. And that nobody has yet come out with a definitive statement from God.

        But I guess the real meaning of history has been hidden from me. Ah, I see, there is stupid ol regular human history, and then there is Jewish history. But why do I get the feeling that Hophmi will tell me the most important lesson from history is to listen to Hophmi and do what he says?

  17. DICKERSON3870
    March 22, 2011, 9:51 pm

    LEGAL NOTIFICATION FROM ATTORNEY HUGO Z. HACKENBUSH: This is to notify you, Mr. Phillip Weiss, that I will be filing complaints against you with the appropriate authorities notifying them of this shocking breach of ethical standards by virtue of your flagrant conflict of interest. Due to the fact that your name is ‘Phillip’, it is entirely inappropriate, and highly unethical, for you to report on any matter whatsoever related to horses.
    I CALL YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS EXCERPT FROM WIKIPEDIA:

    Philip is a given name, derived from the Greek Philippos (Φίλιππος), meaning “friend of horses”. A common mistake is to translate the name as “lover of horses”. From φίλος (philos) “lover” and ίππος (hippos) “horse”.[1][2][3][4] While the literal translation, in Ancient Greece, the ownership of horses was available only to those rich enough to afford them. Since beauty, wealth, and nobility were all synonymous, “lover of horses” can also be translated as “noble”. Philip has alternative spellings: Phillip, Philippe, Philipp,Phillipp,Felip, Felipe, Filip, Filippo, Filippu, Filipe, Filype, Phélyp, Phylip, Phillep, Pilib, Fülöp, Fulup, and has the diminutive Phil, Flip, or Pip…

    P.S. As a matter of professional courtesy, I am sending a copy of this notification to Professor Alan Morton Dershowitz, Esq. of the Harvard Law School. I suggest you seek expert legal advice and/or retain a top-notch attorney.
    Good day, Mr. Weisse.
    HUGO Z. HACKENBUSH – link to en.wikipedia.org

Leave a Reply