Akiva Tor spoke in San Francisco Monday, May 6, 2012.
On Monday, Akiva Tor, Israeli consul general of the Pacific Northwest, shed more light on the bitterness Israel feels towards the Arab Spring in a lecture at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco. Although the event was supposed to focus on the implications of political shifts in the region for Israel, Tor used the event to scapegoat the Palestinians for the stagnant peace process while all the audience wanted to talk about was Iran.
Beginning with Egypt, Tor decried the landslide of votes casted for the Salafis and Muslim Brotherhood, stating, "Political Islam won the elections." Continuing, "even when this earthquake will cease its tremor," relations with Israel will not likely improve. And while the former Mubarak regime was Israel's insurance for "peace with the Egyptian government for more than 30 years," the new leadership evoked apprehension for the diplomat. Tor then expressed concerns over the government not honoring treaties previously made with Israel because of their "religio-historical" worldview. Israel, by comparison he said, has a "secular historical" outlook.
Also relating to the Muslim Brotherhood, Tor stated Egypt would no longer act as an arbitrator between Hamas and Fatah, determining this will usher in the end of the possibility for Palestinian self-determination. "The opportunity for a peace process agreement has receded," said Tor, elaborating, while "both Israel and the Palestinian Authority [PA] believe that the correct way to establish peace between us is the establishment of a Palestinian state alongside Israel," without an external push for unity, he explained, the peace process is over. Then again, Tor emphasized the moment for a Palestinian state has "receded." Yet, he applauded the PA's Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad for "incredible work to decrease corruption."
Moving on to the settlements Tor said, "Israel has not allowed new settlements in over a decade" stating they do "not at all" hinder peace with the Palestinians. Of course, during the past ten years there has been unprecedented settlement growth in the West Bank, however, exclusively from illegal construction. Even still, within the past two weeks Israel motioned to retroactively legalize Bruchim, Sansana, and Recheilim, violating the status quo settlement freeze, along with the 1965 Planning and Building Act, which forbids retroactively legalizing communities.
During the Q & A the audience was largely uninterested in discussing settlements, Palestinians, or the lecture's topic (the Arab Spring). Rather, Iran was the centerpiece. (Incidentally the only question on the Palestinians was from me. And when my comment card on the hunger strikers was read, the moderators voice was accompanied by a low, audible hiss from the attendees who averaged as white, affluent and 40 years my senior.) Four questions in a row noted fears of an Iranian nuclear program and displayed a disdain for diplomatic efforts. Tor addressed their concerns and advocated to prevent the Iranian "worldwide" threat by using "deeper and more stringent sanctions" supported by a consumer protest; effectively he endorsed a movement for boycott, divestment and sanctions against Iran.
After the lecture, I asked Tor if the three legalized outpost violate the freeze? He said no, elaborating that they were "not illegal" to begin with. (This is false.) I then asked if that meant Israel viewed the outposts as already legal? Tor did not answer directly and reiterated that the settlements were "not illegal," when they were established, though he did agree that their permits were changed. Tor then amicably handed me his card and offered to email me a position paper on this issue from the Israeli government.
The Israeli consul general of the Pacific Northwest is a Zionist and the Zionist analysis is worthless . The number one interest of Israel today is giving the Palestinians their independence. Bullshit about it not being the time doesn’t fool anyone in the Middle East.
There were 5 settlers in August 1967. Today there are 750,000. Procrastination works until it doesn’t. And that point is getting ever closer.
Blame the other guy. No connection between Israel and Palestine. We’ve been here before. Next!
“Moving on to the settlements Tor said, “Israel has not allowed new settlements in over a decade” stating they do “not at all,” a hinder peace with the Palestinians. Of course, during the past ten years there has been unprecedented settlement growth in the West Bank, however, exclusively from illegal construction. Even still, within the past two weeks Israel motioned to retroactively legalize Bruchim, Sansana, and Recheilim, violating the status quo settlement freeze, along with the 1965 Planning and Building Act, which forbids retroactively legalizing communities
You are not supposed to know that, Alison. There is not supposed to be an internet where the lies of hasbara are dissected and trashed. Zionism isn’t strong enough for real debate. It’s a monoculture with zero diversity. Monocultures are very weak in certain pressure scenarios. They don’t have the resilience. Israel has been shutting down the debate for years. It should really have people like Halper as envoys. But all dissent has been suppressed. Very dangerous. This schmuck reminds me of the top guys at Lehmans.
“by a low, audible hiss from the attendees who averaged as white, affluent and 40 years my senior.)”
That generation will slowly fade from the scene and who will replace them?
The Egypt-Israel treaty followed (as a result) the Camp David Accords which specified
.The Egyptian people naturally see the treaty as a renunciation (by the USA-dominated Egyptian military government) of the promise of an Israeli/Palestinian peace that Camp David seemed to make.
Camp David promised neither a Palestinian State nor a Right of Return. Egyptians are likely to notice this failing as well. Just as Arafat gave away too much in exchange for not much from Oslo, Jimmy carter also let Begin get away with too much in Camp David. Half a loaf as inot always better than no loaf at all.
As with Oslo, the promise by Israel of a useful result within a time-certain (self-governance and withdrawal of troops) never happened, probably was never contemplated by Israel.
Allison you have much more patience than I could ever muster. This has to be a task as difficult of any described in Greek mythology.
A) Debate with one who comes from an ideology that is proud of a good lie if it promotes the Zionist cause.
B) Debate over the meaning of legality with respect to OPT. To carry this out the Israeli will fall back on any of the following sets of laws, depending on which one backs their interests. 1. Ottoman land deeds and records. 2. British colonial administration rules. 3. Israeli law. 4. Special regulations for ruling OPT. 5 International law. 6. Geneva conventions or 7. United Nations resolutions.
C) If you not befuddled by A or B, the professional Zionist will try Distraction (look over there, over there, see Tibet!), or Dissembling (well now we must take into consideration the Arab character) or Obfuscation (well that brings up Emanuel Kant’s categorical imperative).
I would prefer chewing on broken glass.
@ToivoS,
side note: Taxi gave us ‘testicular acupuncture’ and now you add ‘chewing on broken glass’ to it. One of these days I’ll have a serious nightmare about this site. For what’s worth; it made me lol
Like I said Toivos,
Tor’s argument are always made in a hermetically sealed environment where there is no one to refute them. It remonds me of Alan Dershowitz’s speech at AIPAC a few years ago, when in front of the AIPAC audience, he demanded that if anyone had any evidence the 911 attacks had anything to do with Israel (ie. OBL’s motivation) that they should put up or shut up…as if anyone in that audience was even considering it?
As Hostage said in another post a while ago, these guys always claim to be winning the legal argument except in a court of law, where it really counts. If they truly believed the law was on their side, why do they fight tooth and nail to prevent any of these cases ever making it to a legal court?
I wanted to hear the latest official line from the state. In terms of settlements, things are changing from the previous “settlement freeze” era characterized by (really) a bonanza of “illegal” outpost expansion to a slow regularizing of these outposts.
And Tor didn’t really address the three settlements. They, with Migron, demonstrate the hardline parties can change the official Israeli policy. In the past few weeks alone the bloc has overturned court rulings, legalized any land grab (as in no permit required) in the WB for “unpaved roads,” and have announced they will propose a bill legalizing basically theft of privately owned Palestinian land so long as a check can be written to the unwilling-to-sell owner of the land. All of this gives settlers the legal tools to take, take and take. And these are new tools, which could rapidly increase the timetable for construction.
And to the audience, Tor didn’t have to answer about any of this. Their legal veneer of land confiscation is eroding, yet, no one seemed to care. And hey, at the event there was free water in compostable cups and tea if you asked. And San Francisco was sunny that day–so really, what’s there to care about?
Tor, like the Zionists he represents, is choosing to be on the wrong side of history.
Oh really?
Has Tor not heard that Carter said Israel has violated the Olso accords?
That Israel stands in violation of dozens of UN Resolutions?
That Israel stands in violation of the Geneva Conventions?
The nazis used to say that EVERYTHING is the fault of the jews.
Now the jews say that EVERYTHING is the fault of the Arabs.
Rightow!
That’s what you can expect on a Monday at noon. At evening events, the Commonwealth Club has more younger people (like me) who have day jobs.
Palestinian prime minister Salam Fayyad would agree with much of what Akiva Tor has said. Fayyad said that the Palestinians may have “lost the argument” on the international stage for an independent state. He said the Palestinians had failed to galvanize a distracted world behind their cause. Arab unrest, the U.S. presidential elections and financial crises in Europe had combined to knock the Palestinian issue off the global agenda.
Fayyad said Palestinians must get their own house in order before they could hope for independence and he called for elections that have long been delayed. “A basic right of our people is being violated. The right of being able to choose our leadership,” he said. Fayyad added that he was convinced that independence would be achieved within ten years.
Refer link to chicagotribune.com
Nothing Fayad said coincides with Tor’s diatribe. Fayyad does not blame the Arab Spring for the plight of the Palestinians. He argues that it has taken it off the front pages, Tor argue that the Arab Spring is to blame for the plight of the Palestinians.
Tor did not say anything about the Palestinians having failed to galvanize a distracted world behind their cause.
Tor makes no reference to Palestinian independence or how to achieve it.
At this point, knowing nothing else of history, Nakba, “humiliations galore,” tens of thousands of dead Palestinians and Lebanese (Arabs), indefinite detentions, 40-year Occupation, and/or numerous failures to embrace Palestinian overtures, a Martian would have to conclude that there’s always something [new] that’s “the” obstacle to resolving this justly…
…something other than consistent, deliberate Israeli policy over generations, of course.
ritzl
“40-year occupation”
Even that is a blatant lie. It has in fact been 63 years.
On May 22nd 1948, the Provisional Israeli Government stated territory “outside the State of Israel” was under the “military control” of Israeli forces. By definition of law ‘occupied’. On 12 Aug 1948 an Israeli Government Proclamation says Jerusalem was “occupied”. Jerusalem Declared Israel-Occupied City- by Israeli Government Proclamation 12 Aug 1948. link to wp.me
Israel has never legally annexed any of these territories. Even the victor in a so called ‘defensive’ war must annex territories it has acquired. The US was instrumental in making it Customary International Law on annexation in the mid 1800′s when it annexed parts of Mexico by a referendum of the MEXICAN citizens of Texas. Customary International Law requires no vote, when a legal process is individually adopted by a majority of states, it is automatically customary.
At the time Israel occupied these 1948/49 territories , it was not a UN Member State, therefore the UNSC could not censure Israel directly for illegal acquisition. (Israel is not mentioned by name in UNSC resolutions prior to it becoming a UN Member). The crunch will come when Israel, now a UN Member State, attempts to annex these territories. The UNSC must declare it void and having no legal effect as it did Israel’s illegal annexation of East Jerusalem, unless Israel can reach an agreement with the Palestinians.
The Palestinians who only ask for their rights under the laws Israel agreed to uphold. It is in fact Israel who must negotiate an agreement with the Palestinians. Only an agreement can circumvent the law. Under the law, Israel would be required to withdraw from all occupied territories dating back to 1948, pay compensation.
Little wonder the Israel lobby is so busy nurturing the US Veto vote in the UNSC in order to prevent the law from having its full effect. It would send Israel bankrupt for decades. Huge infrastructure and housing estate contracts would be worthless and billions of loverly Jewish and American dollars spent on supporting the illegal Greater Israel project over the last 64 years will have been wasted.
“Israel has never legally annexed any of these territories.”
And when did Israel legally annex it’s own territory? It was conquered through war and against the will of the majority of the citizens of Palestine. The mandatory goverment dissolved because of Jewish terrorism. The establishment of Israel was nothing else than a paramilitary coup d’etat.
That’s exactly what it was…
It’s bizarre how blind the likes of Akiva Tor can appear to be.
Indoctrination?
Purposeful denial?
Ignorance?
Stupidity?
Insanity?
$$$$$?
All the above?
They simply do not acknowledge anything Israel has done in the past 64 years.
More likely it’s a well founded fear that once one admits there’s a loose end, the whole holey mess will unravel.
I would like to bank the payments, present and future, this bag of sh..t receives for all those obvious lies and distortions.
Perhaphs one day in Turkey someone will ask him why did he say such an untruth.
so, the desire for freedom is what keeps you from being free?
boy, those zio-crazies really have gone off the deep end with their propaganda
Zionists and their names. Where did the Tor family get their name from? What was their name before 1948? Probably something like Silverstein or Goldberg . And Akiva- how many generations of the family have had sons called Akiva ?
I don’t know when the Tor family got its name, but Israeli diplomats (and high-ranking army officers) are generally required to Hebraicise their names. The new names are often translations of the original names, or have a similar sound or beginning (e.g. Persky-Peres, Brug-Barak). I would guess that “Tor” (dove) comes from Taub or Taubmann, or something along those lines.
As for Akiva, it’s a pretty common, traditional Jewish name. I wouldn’t be surprised if Tor was named after a grandfather or great-grandfather, who might also have been called Anton or Augustus, but would almost certainly have had a Jewish name as well (used in the synagogue and in religious documents such as marriage contracts, bills of divorce, etc.).
Thanks , Shmuel. I was wondering about Akiva. It is related to Yaakov – I was wondering if it had been ,resurrected’ or would have been in common use pre Zionism. If not are there other names that were not in traditional use that were reformed for use in Israel for the new non Diaspora Sabra Jews ? There is another group of names such as Ehud and Kinneret and Ariel that were just made up and then there seems to be another group with names like Yossi that are based on Jewish names but developed specifically in Israel. I would love to read more on this aspect of the Zionist project.
I’ve never thought about the connection between Akiva and Ya’akov, although they do share a common root (ʿaqb) – Akiva in Aramaic and Ya’akov in Hebrew. Akiva is actually a very traditional name (associated with the 1st-2nd cent. Tanna, Rabbi Akiva), and is probably hard to find these days among younger, non-religious Israelis, although some Zionists (particularly religious Zionists) favoured the name as a result of Rabbi Akiva’s support for Bar Kochva and thus “muscle Judaism”.
There are various types of first names in Israel – traditional, resurrected (including biblical names that were never or hardly ever used in the Diaspora), invented and equivalents of foreign names – translated or similar in sound (e.g. Tom, Din, Shirli, etc.).
Yossi (Yosé or José – another Talmudic name) was commonly used among Mizrahim, while Ashkenazim tended more toward Yossef (dim. Yossl, Yoss’le). In Israel today, Yossi is generally a diminutive form of Yossef.
Some traditional Jewish names are specific to given communities – such as Koresh (Cyrus) among Persian Jews, or Yihyeh among Yemenites – but those seem to be disappearing. Interestingly, the modern, Zionist name Herzl is limited almost exclusively to Mizrahim of a certain generation.
Were a lot of the regular Ashkenazi names dropped after people moved to Israel? I was reading “konin”a while ago and came across names like Rivka and zipporah that seemed to have been popular pre Shoah but that don^t crop up amongst the names of Israeli celebrities or politicians that I come across now.
Were a lot of the regular Ashkenazi names dropped after people moved to Israel?
If you mean actively changed, not usually (although some traditional Hebrew or Yiddish names were a sure-fire recipe for teasing) , but they sure as hell didn’t give their kids those names (except among the religious where trends are a little different). There’s also a generation gap between Israel and the Diaspora. My sister, for example, who was 12 when we moved to Israel, was told that her name (a “modern” one) was a “grandmother’s name”.
Non-Hebrew names, on the other hand, were changed by the bushel (my Iraqi neighbour, for example, changed her name from Jamila to Yaffa) – sometimes without the consent of the individual immigrants, as in the case of the Ethiopian Beta Yisrael.
yaAKoV and AKiVa
Hebrew is so similar to Arabic where the root defines the word .
One day the semitic cousins will get back together . It is the only thing that makes sense in the whole stinking mess.
One day the semitic cousins will get back together . It is the only thing that makes sense in the whole stinking mess.
Inshallah, habibi.
So Israel’s still going with their “we’re a secular state” meme?
It’s amazing they’d think that anybody would believe that…