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Struggling for water in Gaza

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The Beach camp “Al-shate” is located to the west of Gaza City. Small houses are crowded together with an unbearable smell springing from the wastewater running through the alleys. As volunteers in Youth for the Right of Water and Sanitation project (YRWS) we occasionally visit homes there randomly for our case study on water problems. Residents suffer enormously from serious water problems caused by the Israeli occupation which for years has undertaken exploiting and withdrawing all our pure water resources; groundwater, the Jordan River, the Gaza valley and Lake Tiberius. Thus, all aquifers start to run out and the problem of salty water is increasingly appearing in most houses in Gaza.

We visited the home of Haider Saed Abu-Jazya, a 51 year old carpenter and a father of 14 children whose family has a long miserable history with water. “We have been suffering from water shortage and unfair distribution for 10 years. It’s only available for two days a week beginning at midnight only to run out again in the morning. Along with the problem of polluted insufficient supply another problem has emerged, salty water” said Haider who looks older than his age.

The tone of Haider’s voice tells us he is extremely worried about his family’s life. He is likely to pass on the misery he inherited from his refugee parents to his children. “Can you drink a cup of tea melted with three spoons of salt? Absolutely you cannot” he stresses. He describes how salty and polluted water negatively affects his family. For this, he is obliged to buy a 500-liter gallon supply of water which costs 15 NIS 4 US dollars a day. Sometimes he borrows from a neighbor or friend to pay for it, ‏ other times his friends have no money to offer.

Not only is pure water used for drinking but also for ordinary daily use. Haider has a big family, yet he earns a low income to cover the simplest and most important needs of life like water ‏which must be affordable to all people as a matter of human rights.

“A house without water is quiet as a desert”, he concludes.

Once, he ran out of water for two weeks in a row, so his wife couldn’t do the house chores like cooking, washing and laundering. Thus, they had to throw their dirty clothes away, which were not laundered for days and could not be used again.

How can a human being survive in such conditions?! How can not one be infected by diseases of salty water?

“The low quality of water causes allergies and red pimples arising on my children’s skin” his wife whispers.

WHAT TO DO?!

“All dwellers of the neighborhood gathered and headed to the municipality to complain about the water problems we all face, there were promises made but never fulfilled” he said.

Haider speaks on behalf of the Palestinian nation, hoping this voice will be heard all over the planet.

To those who read this article, imagine that you cannot get a drop of pure water while your baby is strongly crying because his milk is his only food.

Palestine suffers from severe lack of water and Gaza’s water in particular is going to run out by 2020. As long as the world commits absolute silence, Gaza will turn into a wasteland. Gaza needs your help, don’t hesitate to help our people. 

annie
About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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90 Responses

  1. Citizen
    Citizen
    October 22, 2011, 8:37 am

    If U look at Bibi’s “peace process” map (not the Palestinian one), U can see Bibi wants 2 keep control of water resources by keeping key settlements–this angle should be mentioned more.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      October 22, 2011, 4:36 pm

      “Bibi wants 2 keep control of water resources by keeping key settlements”

      Of course, Netanyahoo is the head leach in a state full of leaches. If he wasn’t sucking the life blood of the Palestinians, he wouldn’t have a purpose in life.

  2. October 22, 2011, 8:57 am

    Water is one of the main ingredients needed for lie to exist.
    Without it life withers. Depriving water is depriving life.
    If this is not an ethnic cleansing then what??
    The “international” officials talk ,talk and talk endlessly about “peace process”, sipping cold drinks of their choice ,and sitting in nice air-conditioned rooms.
    In the meantime ,the quality of people’s life in Palestine gets unbearable, unlivable.

    • Chaos4700
      Chaos4700
      October 22, 2011, 11:07 am

      It’s not just ethnic cleansing, it’s genocidal intent. Israelis want Palestinians to die from deprivation of their basic needs, while they cavort around in swimming pools and water fresh green lawns in their lebensraum homes.

      • American
        American
        October 22, 2011, 4:14 pm

        ” it’s genocidal intent. Israelis want Palestinians to die from deprivation of their basic needs,”

        Yes it is.
        I usually skip reading reports like this because they make me as mad and extreme as a rabid dog and I want to drop a bomb on the sobs.
        An uncivilized attitude?…maybe, maybe not…when does being too so called reasonable and so called civilized to stop things like this with whaetver force it takes actually become uncivilized?
        I wish I knew.

  3. Real Jew
    Real Jew
    October 22, 2011, 11:54 am

    ” Water is one of the main ingredients needed for lie to exist. Without it life withers. Depriving water is depriving life.”

    Absolutely, people, especially in the US, take water for granted to the point where its almost unfathomable to think human beings are forced to live under these conditions. It makes me nauseous and enraged to know that elements in my (jewish) community and others are fighting to the death to maintain the status quo. Palestinians are truly considered to be sub-human. Beyond disgusting.

  4. anne silver
    anne silver
    October 22, 2011, 12:16 pm

    Staggering piece. The water crisis in Gaza is horrifying. The only lasting solution to this-and every other injustice Palestinians suffer-is a just, political one but right now I urge readers to read about and donate what you can to MECA, an organization that has worked on the ground in Palestine for over 23 years.

    MECA is addressing the water crisis in Gaza by partnering with Palestinians to create water purification and desalination units for schools (clean water was voted the number one need by the children themselves.) Many readers of this site are probably aware of MECA if only because it was at the center of the recent storm created by its exhibit of children’s art from Gaza (drawings made in the immediate aftermath of the 08-09 assault) which was censored by the museum that had originally agreed to host it. That story was covered eloquently and inspiringly by Henry Norr for this site. (Don’t worry, the powerful and very poignant exhibit is up and running in a private gallery in Oakland, CA and if you’re in the area you should come see it. I’ll be staffing it today.)

    Read more about the organization’s Maia (means water in Arabic) Project here. http://www.mecaforpeace.org/project/maia-project

    I have helped out at this small and wonderful organization for five years and can assure readers their donations go directly to implement truly vital projects in the West Bank and Gaza.

  5. anne silver
    anne silver
    October 22, 2011, 12:23 pm

    Okay patient people. My copy and paste technique seems to be jinxed. Look up MECA online, go to their projects and check out The Maia Project.

    • annie
      annie
      October 22, 2011, 12:41 pm

      it works great for me anne and thank you so much for posting it. i thought of the maia project immediately when i read first read this fantastic report from Leila al-Najar and Ishraq Othman.

      from MECA’s link

      This project began when the Student Parliament at the UN Boys’ School in Bureij Refugee Camp, Gaza were given the opportunity to choose one thing they most wanted for their school: They chose to have clean drinking water. MECA’s partner in Gaza heard about this vote and, after meeting with representatives from the school and the Student Parliament, came to MECA to see if we could respond to the children’s request for drinking water. MECA provided the funds to build a water purification and desalination unit for the school in 2007.

      MECA is working in partnership with community organizations in Gaza to build water purification and desalination units in schools throughout the Gaza Strip. We have provided clean water to 14 large UN schools in Palestinian refugee camps and to 13 kindergartens in refugee camps, towns, and villages.

      MECA is seeking supporters to expand the Maia Project to schools throughout Gaza. A large purification unit for a UN school in a refugee camp costs $11,500. The UN schools run in shifts due to overcrowding and each unit provides drinking water for 1,500-2,000 children and staff. A small purification unit for a preschool or kindergarten costs $4,000 and serves 150-450 children. Many organizations, individuals, and schools around the US are raising the whole cost of a unit in their communities.

  6. pabelmont
    pabelmont
    October 22, 2011, 1:44 pm

    Water thus figures in two ways in I/P.

    First, DENIAL of water to Palestinians is a STICK to force Palestinians to leave. Thus we have long seen swimming pools full of water and lush lawns in settlements next door to Palestinian villages which are denied right to drill water wells.

    Second, Israel seizes water it is by no normal reckoning entitled to, including the water from Shebaa Farms, Lebanon, and the more ancient seizures from Jordan River’s sources.

    It is possible (not for me to say) that Israel has too little water even for Israelis (let’s say for Israeli Jews), because they are building desalinization plants. There are two problems. One is simple — overpopulation, for Israel has invited far too many people to live in this small place. The other problem is per-capita over-use, for the European use-pattern is ill-suited to the water-poor Middle East.

    Lacking water (and Ben-Gurion was always extremely concerned about water resources), Israel cannot give back land in West Bank if to do so means also to give back sources of water. (If Israel can grab and hold on to underground water, then it’s a bit different, but more water for Israel means less for Palestine, and aquifers — even if wholly controlled and used by Israel — can run out. Aquifers are like bank-accounts except to the extent that annual or decadal recharge resupplies them.)

    Turkey and Lebanon may (perhaps) have a bit of excess water which could go to Palestine, even to Israel, in exchange for a decent peace deal, but I’ve seen no offers and no signs of a decent peace deal either.

    But they are all near the Mediterranean. “Water, water, everywhere, nor any drop to drink.”

  7. eee
    eee
    October 22, 2011, 2:48 pm

    The only solution that will work for everybody involves regional cooperation. But for that peace is needed. That is why negotiations are critical. If you want to wait 10-20 years, be my guest, but things will only get worse. The population growth in Gaza does not make things easier there either.

    Israel is one of the world leaders in desalination and will be able to take care of its own needs, but any Israeli only solution will be sub-optimal. A regional plan is needed.

    • annie
      annie
      October 22, 2011, 4:22 pm

      Israel is one of the world leaders in desalination

      too bad they are morally impaired.

    • pabelmont
      pabelmont
      October 22, 2011, 4:28 pm

      eee sys, “The population growth in Gaza does not make things easier there either”. I agree. (They are largely 1948 refugees from Israel and should be allowed to return there.) I have said, in an earlier comment here, that Israel may be over-populated (and please consider the situation if all the Jews who were invited to Israel had actually come and if the Israeli Jews who have emigrated had stayed put). I assume that the Palestinians are also over-populated, considering water-resources, even assuming 50-50% water-splitting.

      Without incisive action by the international community, the USA-Israel will indeed make matters ever more intolerable for Palestinians. eee writes “If you want to wait 10-20 years, be my guest” a cruel statement from someone closer in attitude to a (cruel) jailer than to a prisoner, but true. I hope the world recognizes that the ESSENTIAL WAITING is THEIRS. They it is who have ignored international law for 44 years. They it is who have the strength — should they come to their ethical senses — to bring about a just and lasting peace, including 50-50% splitting of surface and (remaining) aquifer water.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      October 22, 2011, 4:35 pm

      “If you want to wait 10-20 years, be my guest, but things will only get worse”

      More typical Israeli genocide threats. Disgusting.

      “Israel is one of the world leaders in desalination and will be able to take care of its own needs,”

      Only because you blood-sucking parasites have already stolen the Palestinians’ water.

    • James
      James
      October 23, 2011, 2:18 am

      it is interesting how israel is capable of negotiating with hamas when necessary to get back gilad, but unable to act in good faith on any other level… annie is right – israel is morally impaired and they let everyone know this in their daily actions which speak in direct opposition to all the talk of wanting peace… talk is cheap.. israels actions are being read loud and clear by more and more people, in spite of the hasbara of people like yourself and the wittys of the board and beyond..

    • anonymouscomments
      anonymouscomments
      October 24, 2011, 2:08 am

      Eee, you keep talking talking about negotiations….. LISTEN, I agree that is the *ultimate* path, but given the power dynamics, the history of “negotiations”, and the current gov, they will fail utterly if they could even be initiated. So why don’t you think constructively, and instead of repeating the mantra of “negotiations”, FIGURE OUT CONCRETE STEPS TO MAKE IT REASONABLY FEASILE FUTURE NEGOTIAIONS WILL BEAR ANY FRUIT.

      I suggest you criticize Israeli policy, and not on blogs, but in an organized manner (activism, with a group). I suggest you work to change the obvious power imbalance which PREVENTS negotiations from having any chance of success (meaning, a withering defense of many Israeli positions should not be your near full-time job; quite the opposite).

      But hell, I’m just someone who wants negotiations that will yield results, and perhaps you just want negotiation for negotiation’s sake (or are too dense to realize negotiations without a paradigm shift will not yield any results). I do think we largely agree on what a workable resolution could look like in the medium term, but you seem unable to comprehend the best way to help us get there…

      So keep repeating your call for negotiations, while ignoring the obvious reasons they have failed historically, under much better circumstances. In fact, premature initiation of negotiations, which you often call for, are the worst thing, as we need the dynamics to change first, lest we will *ensure* absolute failure.

      FOCUS ON ISRAEL, AND THE POWER DYNAMICS, AND THE NATURE OF THE CURRENT ISRAELI COALITION. And mix in a few words for Hamas and Fatah if it makes you feel good, though that is not the side you have a real ability to influence with words. But I will tell you, Israeli actions directly affect Palestinian actions….. so there is your obvious path to alter the issues you observe with “them”.

      Good luck, I would love for you to stop focusing on fringe critics of Israel, and focus on the actual power structures. Get the priorities straight if you want to save this dying 2ss. Hint: we are not the ones killing it, though many are starting to bury it conceptually due to unambiguous Israeli actions with inescapable consequences.

  8. annie
    annie
    October 22, 2011, 4:20 pm

    The only solution that will work for everybody involves regional cooperation. But for that peace is needed.

    peace wasn’t needed for israel to steal palestinian water. you act like the conflict is forcing israel to poison gaza, it isn’t. france offered gaza a desalination plant after the gaza massacre and israel prevented it. your comment is bs. thieves, that is what they are. and they are worse than thieves to make gazans live like this.

    • Richard Witty
      Richard Witty
      October 22, 2011, 5:01 pm

      EEE’s proposal is sound. That you would only condemn that rather than adopt and move from there, is careless, a moral flaw.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 2:29 am

        So you agree with the ardent Netanyahu support. Nobody’s shocked.

      • annie
        annie
        October 23, 2011, 3:09 am

        a moral flaw.

        mwah? coming from you i think i will take that as a compliment.

      • Richard Witty
        Richard Witty
        October 23, 2011, 6:20 am

        Yes,
        The transition to solidarity and resistance on the part of a distinterested third party is a moral flaw.

        Facilitation of reconciliation would be a moral asset.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 12:34 pm

        Whatever. You, eee, and DBG lecturing us as war mongers is a joke. None of us have relatives who burn mosques and level schools with mortars.

    • eee
      eee
      October 22, 2011, 6:29 pm

      Yes, yes, the usual rants. If you want to solve problems, there is only one way, negotiations. No other method will bring peace and cooperation. If you want to howl at the moon and make things worse, well you are already doing that.

      The “world” whatever that is, cares for nobody. Each country cares for its own interests. You are making an awful bet at the expense of the Palestinians. You are betting that it is better for them to count on the “world” than negotiate a solution with Israel. Ok, see you in 10 years. Very little will be done for Gaza as long as Hamas rule there.

      • Avi_G.
        Avi_G.
        October 22, 2011, 11:49 pm

        If Israel were EVER interested in peace, or in the two-state solution, it wouldn’t have targeted venues of sports and culture. But, if Palestinians playing soccer, or kids acting in Alice in Wonderland are a threat to Israel’s national security then it’s clear that Israel is acting both out of hatred and ideology, interested only in driving out Palestinians from their land.

        And you can do shminiyot ba-avir with your Hasbara, it won’t change reality.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 1:36 am

        You won’t be allowed to keep your lebensraum, eee.

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 23, 2011, 8:40 am

        who is gonna take it from him Chaos? I am sick of you guys continually talking about this inevitable destruction of Israel. constant war-mongering and threats illustrates the lack of moral clarity your ‘peace’ movement has. It is utter hypocrisy.

        It amazes me how you guys want more war after 60 years of humiliation.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 12:32 pm

        After 60 years of Jews doing to Palestinians what Nazis did to Jews (and others?)

        Well, at least you’re being honest for once, DBG, about what your ideology is. Israel could go on for five hundred years and the murder and the bloodshed and the evil won’t stop. It only stops when Zionism is discredited and neutralized.

        At least now we know what you really want, DBG. You want lebensraum.

      • American
        American
        October 23, 2011, 1:54 pm

        “who is gonna take it from him Chaos? I am sick of you guys continually talking about this inevitable destruction of Israel. constant war-mongering and threats illustrates the lack of moral clarity your ‘peace’ movement has. It is utter hypocrisy.
        It amazes me how you guys want more war after 60 years of humiliation.”

        The destruction of Israel may be inevitable DGB.
        I use to support the continuation of Israel, as in two states, but for sane people to do so any longer is to deny what Israel really is.
        It’s a country founded and supported by a true psychopathic entity…literally, it has NO CONSCIENCE and lives by aggression, deceit and parasitism.
        For decades zionist have used the holocaust and victim pity mask to hide what they and Israel really are. But that mask is slipping, we all see that. You can use all the same old tactics…blaming the victim while pretending to be a victim, deflection, lying, excusing….but they aren’t working on most people any longer, the excuse are worn out.
        It takes normal people a long time to accept that a person or group are real psychopathics because it is hard for normal people to conceive of a human without any conscience…much less a organized group without a conscience.
        A lot of you rail about how long it took for people to recognize Hitler and the nazis as psychopathic killers….well, that was because without introconvertible proof, normal people couldn’t conceive of such psychopathy existing on that scale or at all. It was unbelievable to them just as drip,drip drip of Israeli criminality has kept us saying unbelievable, unbelievable for long time until we finally had to believe it.
        What happens in the end to a psychopath? They aren’t curable because they literally don’t have a conscience and no medical science can give them one. One little known trait of psychopaths is they will destroy themselves if it means they can destroy others once they see their game is up. So the “Sampson Option”of the zionist isn’t a empty threat, they will destroy even themselves before they lose. There is little chance they would let themselves be ‘replaced’ as the power of Israel or zionism so that Israel could continue as something else.
        What do you do with psychopathic people who are a threat to others in a myriad of ways, much less an entire nation led by psychopaths?
        You have two choices….you isolate them from society so they can’t threaten others or you destroy them if you have no way to isolate them.
        Maybe some people still believe Israel and the zionist can change, I don’t believe that any longer. They are what they are.
        The most and probably only humane way left for the world to treat Israel and not completely destroy it, is to let it be a powerless ghetto for zionist where they can’t go beyond their own walls to affect anyone else.
        Eventually some world leader(s) are going to be forced to see it this way, although they won’t say it or ‘advertise it” this way. But something will done about Israel because there is always a limit to how much damage another country or countries will allow…the limit obviously hasn’t be reached yet but it will be because as I said Israel and zionism are what they are and they will provoke that limit.

      • Shaktimaan
        Shaktimaan
        January 27, 2012, 4:02 am

        This is just fascinating. It’s amazing how someone can draw such ridiculous parallels between Zionism, Nazism and Psychopaths. I wonder how much you have actually read about the origins of Zionism, (the real ones, written by the people themselves, not revisionist propaganda that seeks to condemn the movement using various dishonest arguments.) There was perhaps more discussion about their ethical obligations than in any other modern state’s founding. Zionism was always a big tent movement so you had people arguing from both extremes and endless midpoints. But to say something like “Zionism has no conscience” is like saying “Socialism has no conscience” or “Nationalism has no conscience.” It covers such a vast area as to make no sense.

        Beyond that, to draw parallels between Zionism and Nazism is really absurd. The Nazis committed genocide, killing millions in a short time, while Israel has been involved in a conflict that has resulted in the deaths of around 14,500 people over 65 years. Far less than the US and England have killed in Iraq. And that is counting both sides, Israelis and Palestinians. Jordan once killed more Palestinians in a single month than Israel ever has. Yet you never hear anyone insisting that the country is founded on psychopathic behavior.

        Why do you suppose that is?

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        January 27, 2012, 11:07 am

        Re: ” I wonder how much you have actually read about the origins of Zionism, (the real ones, written by the people themselves, not revisionist propaganda that seeks to condemn the movement using various dishonest arguments.) ”

        Shaktimaan, I suggest you play around with the search engine for awhile in the MW archives. You won’t have to wonder anymore. The origins of Zionism from the horses’ mouths are shown in detail.

        Zionism is not a “big tent movement” to be equated with Socialism or Nationalism. Zionism is limited to Jews. The other movements have been universal. It’s absurd your equating the size of their respective tents.

      • Shaktimaan
        Shaktimaan
        January 29, 2012, 11:12 pm

        Citizen,

        I don’t have to play around with the search engine for awhile in the MW archives to understand what Zionism’s founders thought as I have read their books and absorbed their thoughts as they were intended. Any information I could glean by reading fragments taken out of context would be to get a sense of how they are being misrepresented.

        You misunderstand my point re: socialism. I was not offering a comparison about their size but their diversity. Nationalism is a very apt comparison as it is never universal but particular to the type being discussed. For instance, Zionism is merely Jewish Nationalism. Other forms of nationalism are specific to their nation and most have a diverse mix of ideas, particularly at the founding of each respective nation.

      • annie
        annie
        October 23, 2011, 3:02 am

        If you want to solve problems, there is only one way, negotiations. No other method will bring peace and cooperation.

        israel is only interested in the kind of negotiation that means for their adversaries ‘to succumb’. like i said before (and you ignored, calling it a ‘rant’) peace wasn’t needed for israel to steal palestinian water and you don’t need peace to stop stealing what doesn’t belong to you. the thief does not ‘need’ the victim to negotiate for peace. all they need do is stop raping and pillaging and stealing and blockading. israel can stop the blockade tomorrow.they can stop the occupation tomorrow, they do not need a negotiation for that just like they do not need a negotiation to stop illegally expanding.

        israels word means shit. nothing. zilch credibility thanks to people with your mentality. this is all delay crap dressed up as ‘it’s hamas’s fault’. let’s get one thing clear. there need be no negotiation for israel to stop the ethnic cleansing and theft of palestine. none. they can stop any time, and they won’t. so stop trying to pretend this has anything to do with the willingness of the victims.

        the victims of collective punishment. and do not for one minute pretend as people are drinking polluted salt water in gaza their water isn’t flowing into swimming pools in settlements, because of you and your ilk. it takes no negotiations to end that, it just takes a conscience and morals. pity your side doesn’t have them. but not a pity for you is it? somebody’s making a profit off the suffering of others and there’s really nothing you can do about us noticing that. it requires merely a minimum of common sense to understand what is happening here and no amount of hasbara can remedy the putrid ugly agenda being imposed on the civilians of gaza.

        If you want to howl at the moon and make things worse, well you are already doing that.

        your words are impotent. blaming the victim is your forte. we all see your game and that’s all you got. pathetic.

      • eee
        eee
        October 23, 2011, 1:10 pm

        Annie,

        Israel is interested in negotiations, period. The negotiations so far have made Ramallah a very nice place. There is no reason this cannot happen for the rest of the West Bank and even Gaza. Through regional collaboration it will be possible to provide everyone with water and electricity at reasonable prices.

        Yes, it is always easy to accuse the other side of lack of “conscience and morals” but that is not the way to reach a compromise is it? Your position is ultra naive. You somehow want to force your view of the world on Israelis. That will not happen, just as Israelis cannot force their view of the world on Palestinians. What is needed is an historical compromise, and that can only be reached by negotiations.

        When will you understand that you cannot control what Israel does, just as Israel cannot control what the Palestinians do? You have to deal with things as they are, not as you want them to be. Fantasizing about the “world” is a dangerous habit the Palestinians can ill afford.

      • annie
        annie
        October 23, 2011, 1:14 pm

        Israelis cannot force their view of the world on Palestinians

        there’s an occupation going on eee. israelis can force their view on palestine 24/7. wake up.

      • annie
        annie
        October 23, 2011, 1:15 pm

        Israel is interested in negotiations

        you are delusional. i think what is clear is they want to expand. abbas has made it clear they will negotiate when israel stops expanding and israel won’t. if israel was interested in a resolution of this conflict they would stop making facts on the ground clearly in contradiction to what palestinians want. so what is abundantly clear is israel wants to act unilaterally, the opposite of negotiations. that is what’s happening and that is why it makes perfect sense for palestine to take their case to the UN, the the global community.

        When will you understand that you cannot control what Israel does

        why should i understand this when israel controls palestine 24/7? israel shows us every moment of the day they believe in controling others works and not compromise or negotiation. you are applying a double standard here. you would like us all to accept we can’t make a difference but obviously we can. otherwise israel and israel’s supporters wouldn’t be invested in stopping us. you wouldn’t even be here. why are you here eee, if we are impotent?

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 1:17 pm

        Of course Israel is interested in negotiations. Sixty years of bloodshed and murder have gone on unabated under negotiations. And the first time someone inside Israel in a position of power actually negotiated for genuine piece, Israelis murdered him and replaced him with leaders like Sharon and Livni and Netanyahu, who aren’t squeamish about sitting down at the table across from a Palestinian while their minions go and slaughter their friends and family at the same time.

        Like DBG said, Israel is literally “sixty years of humiliation.” Presumably he meant of the native people, not European immigrants like you, eee.

      • annie
        annie
        October 23, 2011, 3:12 am

        The “world” whatever that is, cares for nobody.

        obviously i have more faith in humanity than you. it may come as a shock to you but you are wrong. the world very much cares. their governments? not so much. but the world? we hella care and you are going down. mark my words.

      • Richard Witty
        Richard Witty
        October 23, 2011, 6:22 am

        You sadly don’t have faith in humanity. Your comment “Israel’s word means shit” above, is a divestment from faith in humanity.

        I’m sure you’ll respond to “but its true” in some form, but ignore the implications that they are Palestinians’ neighbors and permanently, and as frustrating as it is, must reconcile with those that are there, unless you advocate for an ethnic cleansing shortly.

      • annie
        annie
        October 23, 2011, 12:05 pm

        is this a joke? no one conflates a racist apartheid state as representing ‘humanity’. why would anyone have ‘faith’ is injustice and lies?

        i think you just liked my argument so much you wanted it for yourself. ha ha ha, it doesn’t work like that.

      • American
        American
        October 23, 2011, 12:10 pm

        “You sadly don’t have faith in humanity. Your comment “Israel’s word means shit” above, is a divestment from faith in humanity.”

        We have faith in humanity witty…..people working for justice for Palestines like they have worked for similar causes is an example of it.
        Zionism though, has no humanity. Israel has proved repeatedly for 60 years that they are literally pathological liars.

        You should actually read UN Resolution 181, the resolution that created Israel, sometime. There is not one single agreement, like the water rights outlined in 181, or one single requirment in that resolution that Israel has not violated and failed to live up to and offered up the same stale lies for 6 decades as reasons for not fulfilling them.

      • October 23, 2011, 12:43 pm

        “You sadly don’t have faith in humanity. Your comment “Israel’s word means shit” above, is a divestment from faith in humanity”

        You gotta be kidding. Are you actually insane enough to harbor the delusion that Israel’s past six decades of action and policy have sown “faith in humanity”?

        Witty, stop making such a jackass of yourself. Its demeaning to you, and robs ALL your comments of the luxury of being taken seriously.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        October 23, 2011, 7:31 pm

        It’s not humanity who has divested itself from faith in itself, but Zionism which has divested itself from faith in humanity–that is the core assumption of Zionism, and so too, the often proclaimed basis of the Jewish state of Israel.

      • Shaktimaan
        Shaktimaan
        January 27, 2012, 4:12 am

        Resolution 181 didn’t create Israel, which is probably why you are getting confused. As a General Assembly resolution it carries no legal weight on its own. It could only be considered binding if both parties agreed to abide by it, which obviously didn’t happen.

        Beyond this resolution it bears noting that all GA resolutions are merely “suggestions.” The language they use bears this out. No one is ever obligated to abide by them.

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        October 23, 2011, 6:54 am

        “If you want to solve problems, there is only one way, negotiations. ”

        I understand that “justice” (international and human rights law) isn’t the Zionist way to solve problems. After all they took Palestine by force and now they want to negotiate the ransom for a partial release.

      • American
        American
        October 23, 2011, 12:16 pm

        ” If you want to solve problems, there is only one way, negotiations. ”

        Israel is a psychopath. No one can negotitate with a psychopath.
        How many times do we have to repeat that for you eee?

      • tree
        tree
        January 27, 2012, 4:56 am

        If you want to solve problems, there is only one way, negotiations. No other method will bring peace and cooperation.

        Does this mean you advocate for Israel to negotiate with Iran, rather than threaten them with attacks? Are you urging your Israeli government not to attack Iran? Seriously, shouldn’t that be your major focus at this point?

  9. October 22, 2011, 6:11 pm

    Yes ,we have the ongoing , ongoing “peace process” that is nothing but just a proces.
    This whole ‘peace process” reminds me of a bone, with a bit of meat on it, thrown among hungry people to keep them busy and quiet for a while. Those who throw it say “you see, we are soo good, we care”.
    It is just stalling, buying time.
    Israel’s hope is that life in Gaza will just die on its own.
    No water, no food, no shelter, no security, no hospital care, no jobs, no schools…….. And then a situation will be solved.
    No “peace process” will be needed anymore.

  10. October 22, 2011, 9:30 pm

    It is indeed frustrating to see eee blathering on about “negotiations”. Really the word “negotiation” means only one thing to the zionist Israelis; “Do it our way, or no way”.

    Of course, eee realizes this, and is quite cognizant of the FACT that the “peace process” is a sham. The Israelis are simply buying time as they suck up more land, and work to oppress the Palestinians into a mass of impoverished and demoralized people, incapable of resisting Israeli expansion.

    Despicable.

    • Sumud
      Sumud
      October 22, 2011, 10:21 pm

      Of course, eee realizes this, and is quite cognizant of the FACT that the “peace process” is a sham. The Israelis are simply buying time as they suck up more land, and work to oppress the Palestinians into a mass of impoverished and demoralized people, incapable of resisting Israeli expansion.

      Except Israeli politician seem capable of hubris but not long-term strategy. I say let ’em build. What they are [unwittingly] doing is making sure that the only possible outcome is a single bi-national state, and the end of the ‘jewish state’ of Israel.

      Palestinians may not be capable resisting the expansion but time and MLK’s long arc of history is on their side. I would hope that the steadfastness Palestinians under occupation have displayed continues and does not give way to demoralisation.

    • Chaos4700
      Chaos4700
      October 23, 2011, 1:34 am

      Eee (and Israel’s) idea of negotiation: “Do what we say, or your children die, starving and naked.”

      • eee
        eee
        October 23, 2011, 2:29 am

        Only starving, I never said naked.
        You guys really need to grow up. In negotiations you get to control what you say, not what the other person says. But you want to negotiate by telling the other side what they should say and do. Have you ever had that kind of negotiation in your life? Do tell me about it. If you don’t want to negotiate, just say so. If you do, then accept that Israel is free to decide how it negotiates, just like the Palestinians.

      • mig
        mig
        October 23, 2011, 5:31 am

        Negotiate about water perhaps ? In the joint Israeli / Palestinian group, where Israel has veto power. Wanna talk more about negotiate things ?

        Hint : ” The principal reason for the water shortage in the West Bank is the unfair distribution of the water resources shared by Israel and the Palestinians. One of these resources is the Mountain Aquifer which is composed of a few reservoirs of groundwater that lie on both sides of the Green Line. Although this aquifer is the sole water source for residents of the West Bank, Israel uses eighty percent of it, leaving only the remaining twenty percent for the Palestinians. Israel refuses to alter this distribution or to allow the Palestinians access to alternate water sources such as the Jordan River basin, thus preventing the Palestinian Authority from either connecting additional communities to a running-water network, or from increasing the water supply in locations where a running-water network exists.

        Another cause of the water shortage is the poor infrastructure that Israel handed over to the Palestinian Authority in 1995 in the framework of the Oslo Agreements. Since then, the Palestinian Authority has improved the infrastructure, but it still does not meet minimal standards. For example, on average, some 33 percent of the water carried through the pipes is lost by leakage. In addition, Mekorot, the Israeli water company, which supplies more than one-half of household and urban water consumption in the West Bank (the rest is supplied by Palestinian bodies), reduces the quantity of water sold to Palestinians in the summer months by 15 to 25 percent to meet consumption needs in Israel and in the settlements.

        Another phenomenon that aggravates the shortage in some areas of the West Bank is the practice of Palestinian farmers illegally tapping into water pipes leading to Palestinian communities. The southern West Bank village of Bani Na’im, for example, lost almost all the water supplied to it by Mekorot in the summer of 2007 due to this practice. Most of the illegal taps take place in Area C, in which Israel is responsible for law enforcement. However, security officials have refrained from taking sufficient action to apprehend the thieves. Palestinian police officials in Hebron District informed B’Tselem that they had contacted the Civil Administration a number of times to coordinate the entry of Palestinian police to Area C to handle the problem, but their requests were denied.

        Israel’s policy regarding water supply in the West Bank is illegal and discriminates on racial grounds. It flagrantly breaches international law which requires Israel to ensure proper living conditions for the local population and to respect the Palestinians’ human rights, including the right to receive a sufficient quantity of water to meet their basic needs.”

        http://www.btselem.org/water/without_running_water

        And to that have we been in negotiations ever ? Yes. Plenty of times. Biggest was when foreign ministers from several countrys was around table. Wanna talk more about negotiating….

      • mig
        mig
        October 23, 2011, 5:53 am

        Israeli authorities carry out demolitions of water infrastructure.Hundred of Palestinian families affected in the northern West Bank.

        In September, the Israeli Civil Administration (ICA) carried out the demolition of six artesian water wells in the villages of An Nassariya, Beit Hassan, and Al Bqai’a, in the northern West Bank; three of these structures were demolished for the second time in less than three months. None of the owners of the wells received any notification or demolition orders.

        Each of the demolished wells was used for the irrigation of roughly 500 dunums of farmland, and more than 400 Palestinian families were affected. Of particular concern, following the demolitions, there are reports that some of the farmers have resorted to diverting sewage stream through storm water flooding channel as a coping mechanism, and are using raw sewage for the irrigation of vegetable crops.The Israeli demolition of water infrastructure in the West Bank has been of ongoing concern. From the beginning of 2009 to date,48 rainwater cisterns and 38 wells have been demolished, half of which were recorded this year alone (24 cisterns and 19 wells in 2011) affecting more than 14,000 people, over half of whom are children.

        The demolition of cisterns in these areas means the loss of their primary coping mechanism, especially in times of water scarcity. The wells demolished this month were dug without the approval of the Israeli-Palestinian Joint Water Committee (JWC), as required under the Oslo Interim Agreement of 1995. However, according to the Palestinian Water Authority(PWA), although it had agreed before the JWC to shut down the wells, it conditioned its agreement upon the provision of an alternate source of water to the affected communities, which has not yet occurred.Moreover, in contrast to previous demolitions of water infrastructure, all of this month’s demolitions were carried out in Area B of the West Bank. Unlike in Area C, under the Interim Agreement planning and building powers in Area B lie with the Palestinian Authority. Therefore, it remains unclear under which authority did the ICA carried out these demolitions.

        The demolitions occurred within the context of long-standing discriminatory allocation of water resources in the West Bank is made clear given the preferential water resource distribution provided to Israeli settlements located in the same areas. While Israeli settlements receive an average 280 liters per day per capita, the Palestinian population is allocated an average of 60 liters per day per capita, well below the recommended 100 liters as recommended by the World Health Organization (WHO).

        CASE STUDY ON DEMOLITION OF WELLS IN AN NASSARIYA
        An Nassariya is a rural community in Area B the Nablus governorate, whose residents rely heavily on agriculture. On 8 September 2011, Israeli forces destroyed three of the village’s wells with a bulldozer. The army confiscated pumps, engines, filters and 4 000 liters of gasoline (at 7 NIS per litre), and threw the owners’ tools into the wells. They did not show a demolition order to anybody present. The demolition affected the livelihoods of 350 families.Testimony of Nagahe Zaad (54), farmer:“I plant tomatoes, onions, cucumbers, melon, aubergine, peppers and many other things. Our sheep eat the foliage after we have harvested.
        Now we have no water and we cannot plant and our sheep drink the sewage water from the open canal. When it happened, I just stood there. I felt so angry, but there was nothing I could do. It took about three to four hours and it all happened right before my eyes. No one was allowed to enter the area. I was thinking of all the other farmers who depend on the water. I fell to the ground and was taken to a doctor.We are willing to live with Israelis and we will share our water. I along with the two other owners of wells have decided that we shall now rebuild only one well, so we can share the costs. But this means that we will produce less, and we know the Israelis will destroy our wells again, but I have been a farmer all my life. My father and grandfather also farmed on this land. We now live with this, we will not move.” Testimony given to the Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine and Israel (EAPPI), Yanoun team

        http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/Full_Report_2676.pdf

      • Sumud
        Sumud
        October 23, 2011, 6:44 am

        If you do, then accept that Israel is free to decide how it negotiates, just like the Palestinians.

        Yup, 20 years after Oslo, 60 years after Nakba, it’s clear to one and all just how apartheid Israel “negotiates”.

      • October 23, 2011, 11:27 am

        Can eee possibly be unaware of how transparently absurd his arguments and rationales are?

        “Negotiate” is a buzzword to eee, that has no true and honest meaning whatsomever. His rebuttals rob the word of its true meaning.

        Its impossible to imagine that eee is unaware of the disingenuous and insincere nature of his comments here. He argues to obscure, to irritate. There is no constructive direction or motive that can be interpreted from his commentary. Like the actual policies and actions of Israel, eee’s rationales and justifications fly in the face of moral conviction or ethical conduct.

        Exposing himself, his character, so unabashedly, is self defeating. Like Israel, his own worst enemy resides within. With his every contribution here, he proves the value and reasoning behind our loathing. He works to earn it, and his efforts do not go, should not go, unrewarded.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 12:24 pm

        Why should we negotiate with a monster like you and your country, eee? Ask Neville Chamberlain how “appeasement” worked for him.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 1:02 pm

        Zionism and sociopathy. Does that help?

  11. Chaos4700
    Chaos4700
    October 23, 2011, 1:20 pm

    How come DBG, eee, and Witty have free reign to post about an ideology that is CLEARLY morally evil in character, but we’re not allowed to address them about it? Clear up the double standard for me. Why are Jews like them given privileged access to Mondoweiss?

    • annie
      annie
      October 23, 2011, 1:29 pm

      how do you know they have free reign chaos. how do you know 1/2 their comments are not deleted? and what do you mean you are ‘not allowed’ to address them about it? i’ve heard you pack a punch many times here.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 1:41 pm

        If I posted something that basically read, “Jews must negotiate with Palestinians, or they will die, and that’s what they deserve,” I’d get BANNED. And rightly so.

        At one point barely half my posts were cleared in moderation. That’s when I left for a while, I got so frustrated with Zionists making really vicious attacks, not just on Arabs/Muslims/Palestinians generally, but on people here SPECIFICALLY.

        We lost Haytham because the moderators were extraordinarily tolerant of Guilty Feat, right up until he was banned. Have you forgotten that? That’s why I’m so aggressive, incidentally. Some fires are too big to put out with any amount of water you can carry. Sometimes you need to scorch a small patch of earth in front of you to save the forest behind you.

      • annie
        annie
        October 23, 2011, 1:52 pm

        no, i have not forgotten what happened with haytham. i know it is very frustrating to deal with sometimes. especially when they just repeat the same lies. sometimes i wish the blog were completely free of their voices and all the threads could just be amongst those of us who support palestine. but we should remember there are new people coming to this movement all the time and our rebuttals, which are repetitious too, provide an opportunity for people to learn. so you just have to deal with them. it’s the choice of adam and phil to allow their voices and if one of your comments gets banned just rephrase it and try again. i like your passion and you ad a lot to the discussion here. breathe and try try again.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 2:02 pm

        I’d like to think people like eee and DBG are driving Jews away from Zionism, but how many do they manage to actually persuade? People like eee and DBG didn’t just spring from hell, annie. They were taught the same hatred they now spout. How do we know that giving them free reign while restraining people who actively oppose them, people like me (because that’s my objection, I don’t want them banned, I want freedom to engage them) isn’t drawing at least as many Jews to Zionist terrorism as it is driving them away?

      • American
        American
        October 23, 2011, 5:03 pm

        “isn’t drawing at least as many Jews to Zionist terrorism as it is driving them away”

        I understand what you are saying Chaos. But I think the Jews drawn to zionism are like any other individuals who “‘chose” to believe what suits them instead of acknowledging the truth, and not much you can do about them.
        I have been trying to decide my own policy or approach to the Jews in between, not zionist, who I don’t think you can do anything with, but the ones that deny the truth and rationalize about Israel even though their support may be mostly passive.
        A lot of time and energy is put into shielding the Jews, in constantly reassuring them that Jews aren’t threatened because we all know it’s not “all of them”. While this is factually true, I don’t think that approach is accomplishing anything or beneficial any longer to us or them.
        We need to start a conversation that while it acknowledges the differences in Jews, also makes clear that those part of Jewish community are responsible and will be held responsible for their collective community as long they claim that community identification.
        We need to take away the “Jewish community” protection screen of the zionist and the Jewish” immunity” in letting the zionist use them or for supporting the zionist in any way.
        I’m not talking vilification , I am saying it’s time to stop talking to the Jews and Jewish community as ‘special needs children’ who can’t understand or be held accountable for their actions, choices or associations.
        This kind of ‘tough love’ treatment would be tricky at first and has to be about what privileges and exceptions they don’t and shouldn’t have in relation to US support of Israel and the reasons why their Israel exception isn’t acceptable to America and other Americans. …while we reject all the excuses they are going to give for their exceptions. We don’t have to argue and accuse, just state their rationalizations and excuses aren’t acceptable or valid over and over and refuse to be drawn into historical claims of vicimization for why they should have these entitlements regarding a foreign country.
        Jews are no longer victims therefore their special entitlement period is over…that’s both fact and should be true and they should want it to be true.
        We need to talk to and counsel them the way we would anyone out of bounds in behavior.
        They won’t accept it at first, but this should be the main theme of our conversation with the Jewish community …and one that would scare Israel and the zionist shitless.
        I haven’t come up with any way to talk to the christian zionist yet, imo they are absolutely crazy and can’t be reached any more than the hard core zios can.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        October 24, 2011, 6:24 am

        I agree with your comment, American. But nobody wants to give up their “get out of jail” card, including the merely complicit by inaction or passivity. Given our current campaign finance system, and the current handful of folks who control the MSM, I don’t see anything that will break the current impasse. Unless it is a war on Iran, and then only after severe and wide damage is done. A small glimmer of hope lies in the Arab Spring from Egypt to OWS, coupled with focus on the economic condition worldwide (jobless & debt everywhere up the gazoo), on the money masters & their banking system, and a few blogs similar to Mondoweiss–the internet, so long as the West doesn’t take some form of China’s approach to that, which would happen if a war on Iran ensued, spread in (somewhat, even by objective projectors) unpredictable ways.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        October 24, 2011, 11:41 am

        “the moderators were extraordinarily tolerant of Guilty Feat, right up until he was banned.”

        Guilty Feat was banned? I thought he (or she, I was never quite sure) had developed a ban-proof schtick.

        BTW, are there really “moderators”? Does Phil keep them in the basement with the coerced trolls? This is gonna blow up in his face, you watch.

      • annie
        annie
        October 24, 2011, 1:47 pm

        How do we know that giving them free reign while restraining people who actively oppose them, people like me (because that’s my objection, I don’t want them banned, I want freedom to engage them) isn’t drawing at least as many Jews to Zionist terrorism as it is driving them away?

        why would you think they have free reign chaos? wrt to the haytham exchange w/GF perhaps a mod was just fed up w/GF and afforded him enough room online to hang himself. they ultimately banned him so technically that is not ‘free reign’ since that was his last day posting or close anyway. i have not checked his archive but it’s available to anyone.

        personally i’ve read enough online discussions about moderation @ dkos to last a lifetime. i don’t like them and think they ruin discussion. i’d advise emailing phil and adam.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 23, 2011, 1:58 pm

        Annie, these were posted just today:

        http://mondoweiss.net/2011/10/struggling-for-water-in-gaza.html#comment-380036

        who is gonna take it from him Chaos?

        It amazes me how you guys want more war after 60 years of humiliation.

        When I referred to Israelis engaging in lebensraum. DBG didn’t even object to my using the term — he embraced it. And he was jubilant of Israel’s six decades long history of oppression.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2011/10/struggling-for-water-in-gaza.html#comment-380001

        Eee (and Israel’s) idea of negotiation: “Do what we say, or your children die, starving and naked.”

        Only starving, I never said naked.

        And that was eee himself on the subject. Like it or not, Mondoweiss is, among other things, another outlet by which Zionists can preach hate speech and extol the virtues of fascist militarism. It’s great that Phil and Adam SOMETIMES let people challenge it, if we’re held to certain rules of engagement that they never seem to hold people like eee and DBG too. But the fact of the matter is Mondoweiss is an open platform for Jewish supremacy. Not an unchallenged one, but it’s pretty clear that Jewish supremacy is left uncensored while other forms of supremacy are not.

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 24, 2011, 10:48 am

        you are a complete liar Chaos, all you do is misrepresent people(and yourself). I call you out every time you use your Nazi BS, because I didn’t call you out once all of a sudden I embrace it?

        When I said 60 years of humiliation I was talking about Arab/Israeli wars nothing about the occupation. It was a response to your war-mongering by the way. People like you, Taxi, and Seafoid are all too willing to see Arab blood spilled for your cause, while you site thousands of miles away.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        October 24, 2011, 11:39 am

        DBG

        It is bad cop today?
        When are you planning to be nice to us again?

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 24, 2011, 12:01 pm

        I atoned already seafoid, wait until next year.

      • annie
        annie
        October 24, 2011, 2:00 pm

        chaos, i hear you. after listening to his response to your lebensraum comment. and honestly i had to look it up for i didn’t know this word

        Lebensraum (help·info) (German for “habitat” or literally “living space”) was one of the major political ideas of Adolf Hitler, and an important component of Nazi ideology. It served as the motivation for the expansionist policies of Nazi Germany, aiming to provide extra space for the growth of the German population, for a Greater Germany.

        and for him to respond w/a taunting “who is gonna take it from him Chaos? ” is despicable. i hope his days are numbered here, that is all i can say. he’s too comfortable here to feel he can get away with this. and then to moan about it afterward “I am sick of you guys continually talking about this inevitable destruction of Israel.” as if sans this nazi policy the destruction of israel is inevitable.

        really it is grotesque. i hope they ban him but that is not a decision i can make. the rhetoric from him has escalated over the last week.

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 24, 2011, 2:07 pm

        are you kidding annie? Chaos was talking about eee’s nation being taken from him. Why is this OK to you people? why is the constant Nazi shit OK to you ppl?

        You hope my days are numbered? what is that supposed to mean? are the back channel talks between the mondo-elites to have my access revoked?

        Chaos accused me of killing babies in the past, me annie, not Israel, not Jews, but me personally, where were you in my defense?

      • Avi_G.
        Avi_G.
        October 24, 2011, 2:21 pm

        DBG October 24, 2011 at 2:07 pm

        are you kidding annie? Chaos was talking about eee’s nation being taken from him.

        3e is American.

      • annie
        annie
        October 24, 2011, 2:25 pm

        why is the constant Nazi shit OK to you ppl?

        this ‘nazi shit’ is not ok with me in the least. it just so happens the description in wiki perfectly reflects the justifications by israel for the expansion, that is why i blockquoted it. so how about you object to the policy itself instead of the objections to naming it? or is that beyond your capabilities. you’re more offended by rhetoric than policy and that is disgusting to me.

        Chaos was talking about eee’s nation being taken from him.

        you find that offensive eh? tell us more what a despicable policy it is robbing someone of a country. anyway, i read each of chaos’s comments from that subthread and i do not see anything chaos said about that. so why don’t you link to it and copy paste it for me becasue there’s no reason i would go on an extensive search because i’ve already found on numerous occasions you make claims you cannot back up. you’re a crude bloviator, a not too smart one imo.

        Chaos accused me of killing babies in the past, me annie, not Israel, not Jews, but me personally, where were you in my defense?

        link to it. your word is zilch with me. zilch.

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 24, 2011, 2:44 pm

        fine annie, I am not going to spend my time going through Chaos’ 14000+ comments.

        But I will try to not response to him anymore. I agree that it is counterproductive to both our sides.

      • Cliff
        Cliff
        October 24, 2011, 2:45 pm

        DBG, why are you more concerned about Nazi analogies, concerning behavior which is pretty horrible in it’s own right ANYWAY – when Israel is constructing a new Jewish neighborhood in Occupied E. Jerusalem?

        Why do you choose to talk about Nazi analogies instead of the articles posted on MW?

        Like hophmi, eee, et. al. you comment selectively so that you can respond indignantly, emotionally, and keep things superficial.

        That’s what you are intellectually capable of. You’re simple-minded and a fake. Maybe you’re not a paid hasbarat but you sure as hell are a troll.

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 24, 2011, 2:48 pm

        Cliff I get it, i understand your point, thanks.

      • annie
        annie
        October 24, 2011, 4:17 pm

        I will try to not response to him anymore. I agree that it is counterproductive to both our sides.

        that is probably a good idea. thank you.

        in the future, if you are going to make extraordinary claims about a poster you should be prepared to back it up. btw, there is no need to go thru all of chaos comments. there is a search function on top of every commenters archive page. fyi , here is chaos talking to you:

        eee August 23, 2011 at 11:23 am

        Were there or were there not explosives in the house? The writer is quite coy about this. Assuming they were, what is wrong with how the soldiers acted? What do you think these explosives were going to be used for? Building a railroad?

        Chaos4700 August 23, 2011 at 11:35 am

        See? Those children that Israel killed? Those could have been TERRORIST BABIES!

        DBG August 23, 2011 at 1:14 pm

        Don’t even think about blaming the organizations would who keep explosives in a house with children.

        Chaos4700 August 23, 2011 at 1:46 pm

        Every time you come up with an excuse to kill a baby, I imagine there is at least one young Jewish American or European who watches you, Israeli, then turns away from Zionism in horror and disgust.

        eee August 24, 2011 at 12:32 am

        Every time you accuse us of killing babies another American Jew realizes that antisemitism is alive and kicking and that a Jewish state is a must.

        iow, no one accused you of killing a baby, merely justifying it which both you and eee did. and directly underneath is my response to it. you’re not being responsible in your accusations. fyi, chaos links to this thread, just days before the killings which we know now gazans were not responsible for. 20 gazans killed among them women and children. no trial, nothing. they were no less victims than the israeli victims of the eilat attack.

        all of this is horrible enough as it is and emotions run high as it is so it really isn’t helpful to lie about what people say. there is a big difference between accusing someone of killing a child and accusing them of justifying it.

        do not blame others (including moderators) for distinguishing the difference. it is like listening to little disruptive children. seriously, grow up if your are going to be defending the aggressors then learn to deal with the anger resulting from these horrendous policies of israel and do not expect people to save you or sympathize with you when your allegations amount to lies and distortions about what people say.

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 24, 2011, 8:41 pm

        the idea of lebensraum is inaccurate. If this was Israel’s intention why did they give the Sinai for peace with Egypt and Gaza back to the PA?

      • annie
        annie
        October 24, 2011, 8:49 pm

        can you update your comment to this century please.

      • DBG
        DBG
        October 24, 2011, 8:56 pm

        2000 (Lebanon) 2005 (Gaza)

        I will also remember this when you guys bring up the Liberty or the Lavon Affair. It happened last century, it doesn’t matter anymore.

      • annie
        annie
        October 24, 2011, 9:27 pm

        i didn’t say it didn’t matter. the reference to lebensraum is quite apt today and reflects the ‘facts on the ground’ of expanding ‘aiming to provide extra space for the growth of the Jewish population, for a Greater Israel. ‘

        you can take the last word now because i will not be debating you over this issue. it’s a no brainer as far as i am concerned. good bye.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        October 25, 2011, 1:49 am

        DBG, anyone can look up “lebensraum” and find significant similarity with Israel’s settlement expansion. Ditto for another Nazi policy: Blut und boden: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_soil (of which lebensraum was a part). The romanticism of the kibutz, the “New Jew,” the “New German” etc. And pre-Nazi, the Volk movement, origin in Aryan, Nordic myths, etc. The Old Testament. It’s hard not to conclude that Zionism itself originated as a knock-off of the Romantic German Volk movement.

        Lebensraum was part of the matrix of Nazi policies that fed each other into National Socialism of a people. Hitler gave things up to get other things. Israel gained a lot from giving up Gaza and the Sinai. The peace treaty with Egypt gave Israel great security, part of which was 30 years of Muburak giving Israel great freedom to do what it wanted to, not to mention decades now of the biggest chunk of US foreign aid, and cheap energy from Egyptian pipelines.

      • Chaos4700
        Chaos4700
        October 25, 2011, 9:30 am

        It is thoroughly insulting that DBG can attack me and lie with reckless abandon and almost half of my replies to him in kind are blocked. Would more of my posts get through if I converted to Judaism like he did?

    • American
      American
      October 23, 2011, 2:26 pm

      It’s good they post here Chaos. Gives us a chance to solidify our opinions about zionism.
      Could be Phil doesn’t want an echo chamber or believe in censoring opinions, I don’t either.
      Could be they just keep the conversation going.
      The comments and conversations of the zionist on the net over the years kept me researching and investigating even more facts about Israel, I/P and the zionist…and the US.
      I am all for them talking, appearing in the media, appearing in the main stream press because not all of the public is incurious, some will question and investigate or take offense at what they say and promote.
      Right this minute I am listening to an Israel firster on Fox promote a US war on Iran…if it happens people will remember who said what.
      So I say let ’em rip…I want all of America (and the world) to see and hear them. The more extreme they get, the more they speak for Israel in the US government, the more rope to hang them with in the end.

      • October 23, 2011, 5:59 pm

        “Could be Phil doesn’t want an echo chamber or believe in censoring opinions…”

        Thats not the case, because I have been censored here on numerous occassions.

        “I am all for them talking, appearing in the media, appearing in the main stream press because not all of the public is incurious, some will question and investigate or take offense at what they say and promote”

        I am all for it as well. But, truth is, their more revealing and egregious comments are never given a public airing. Do a news google on Rachel Abrams’ latest bile, and not one mainstream news source will be found that is willing to publicize her comments.

        Personally, I emailed Clemons over at the Atlantic, asking him why he doesn’t “report” on the true nature of these snakes, and in response he simply insulted ME, and responded with a rant about what an ass he considers ME for demanding he act as a RESPONSIBLE member of the Fourth Estate. Fuck him. He seems more than willing to highlight what his masters in DC consider “anti-semitism”. So why not expose the rabid islamophobes as well? Considering the state of the union right now, and the players that are dictating our foreign policy, to not report on the true nature of the zionist/neocon camp is the epitomy of journalistic irresponsibility. These journalists such as Clemons are COMPLICIT in the disastrous policies that have brought this nation to its knees.

        Yes, its great when those such as eee or DBG reveal themselves and their compatriots and co-conspirators with their rhetoric. Its a pity, though, that their racist hateful screed is never underscored on the MSM. Exposing themselves over the so called “alternative media” does little to actually inform the mainstream public what these reptiles are really all about, what they actually think, and the despicability of what they actually DO.

      • American
        American
        October 23, 2011, 11:56 pm

        I have noticed POA, that Clemons has disappeared from the net’s radar screen for the most part and he doesn’t seem to have the following he had with TWN. I no longer see him as a guest on any cable news either, maybe I have just missed it. Is he still with the NewAmer Foundation or is he out of that also?
        Someone came down on him hard and he crumpled like a paper bag. Too bad.

        As far as the MSM, nothing is going to change them until some event occurs where their lies can’t even be believed by even the unconscious. That has already occured for a large percentage of the public….25% don’t believe Fox, 25% don’t believe MSNBC and 50% don’t believe any of them.
        But let’s say we could make the media tell the truth..would it really matter? I don’t think it wouldn’t change our politicans or government, they would just talk about the lying media.
        If there were million man marches for Palestine would anything change in Washington on that issue? I doubt it. DC is too far gone…way, way gone into a never, never land.
        We have to wait for that perfect storm, the critical mass junction, maybe it will be another war, to come along and blow the fog of all the political crap-spin out.

  12. American
    American
    October 24, 2011, 12:23 am

    @ Chaos and POA

    I think I have some censored too…I say think cause I don’t really know just seems like I make a comment that doesn’t appear now and them.
    But I do this on the fly a lot as I am doing other things so sometimes can’t remember if I said something or not and some of my comments are crap anyway cause I don’t often have time to edit and properly phrase my thoughts.
    I don’t really care though, compared to some hellish sites like DKos and others, Mondo is the “Only Real Democracy” in the I/P world.
    Be grateful for small favors. LOL

  13. Miss Costello
    Miss Costello
    October 25, 2011, 4:33 pm

    2 Blame the victim”

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