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Israel’s Rx for the Palestinians, and the region: managed conflict

Israel/Palestine
on 97 Comments

You may have noticed that John Kerry’s peace process, by excluding Hamas among other measures, is aimed at managing the conflict. Not resolving the basic justice issues, because they seem too overwhelming, but putting the conflict on the back burner so it doesn’t boil up. Trying to sustain the unsustainable status quo by making it more sustainable.

In the New York Times, Edward N. Luttwak has the very same prescription for Syria. “In Syria, America loses if either side wins.” Luttwak wants endless bloodshed– “four of Washington’s enemies” tied down in neverending war. It seems like these include Israel’s enemies, Hezbollah and Iran.

His chief concern seems to be Syria’s troubles pouring into Israel:

At this point, a prolonged stalemate is the only outcome that would not be damaging to American interests.”

…Mr. Assad’s triumph would dramatically affirm the power and prestige of Shiite Iran and Hezbollah, its Lebanon-based proxy — posing a direct threat both to the Sunni Arab states and to Israel….

Israel could not expect tranquillity on its northern border if the jihadis were to triumph in Syria…

By tying down Mr. Assad’s army and its Iranian and Hezbollah allies in a war against Al Qaeda-aligned extremist fighters, four of Washington’s enemies will be engaged in war among themselves and prevented from attacking Americans or America’s allies.

That this is now the best option is unfortunate, indeed tragic, but favoring it is not a cruel imposition on the people of Syria, because a great majority of them are facing exactly the same predicament.

Luttwak wants unending war:

Maintaining a stalemate should be America’s objective. And the only possible method for achieving this is to arm the rebels when it seems that Mr. Assad’s forces are ascendant and to stop supplying the rebels if they actually seem to be winning.

This reminds me of the vision laid out to me when I first visited Israel: They don’t want us here so there must be one war after another after another till they accept us. It in turn reminds me that many years ago the “Arabists” in the State Department warned the White House that Israel could only be established by force, and preserved by force.

That is how things have worked out. Now that force seems to include Managed Conflict in Syria, Egypt, Lebanon too.   

Speaking of a lack of vision, here is Luttwak on Gaza back in early 2009, during Cast Lead. “Yes, Israel can win in Gaza.” More justification of conflict management, forever. And treating a slaughter as a victory.

Consider: According to Gaza sources, until the ground fighting started some 25% of the 500 dead were innocent civilians. The Israelis claimed that 20% of the casualties from the aerial attack were civilians. Either way, this was an extremely accurate bombing campaign….

So how did Israel do it? The only possible explanation is that people in Gaza have been informing the Israelis exactly where Hamas fighters and leaders are hiding, and where weapons are stored. No doubt some informers are merely corrupt, paid agents earning a living. But others must choose to provide intelligence because they oppose Hamas… Hamas completely disregards the day-to-day welfare of all Gazans in order to pursue its millenarian vision of an Islamic Palestine.

Some in Gaza must also resent Iran’s role in instigating the barrage of rockets fired on Israel. And all must know that the longer-range rockets are supplied by Iran along with money for Hamas leaders, while ordinary Palestinians languish in poverty….

Update: I added a key excerpt from Luttwak to this piece — his arming the rebels argument — after commenters pointed it out.

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About Philip Weiss

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97 Responses

  1. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 25, 2013, 11:59 am

    Israel started off with material manpower advantages over the Palestinians – WW2 veterans with battle experience. 1948 was a walkover. Israel then developed material weapon advantages – Egypt gets F x and Israel gets F x+1 fighters.

    The danger of permanent war in Syria is that the Arabs develop fighters to beat the crap out of Israeli occupation managers. 2006 gave a foretaste.
    And it’s just not Jewish.
    And it’s really stupid.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 25, 2013, 12:49 pm

      And the US taxpayers pay for this situation. Even now, with the US economy on a death spiral. It took WW2 to end the Great Depression. Between that modern economic physics and the full tilt towards war with Iran going on in the US congress underneath the radar of Dick and Jane, looks like war with Iran is a shoe-in. Mainstream media is not covering this at all. Nothing will be noticed by Dick and Jane until the gas at the pump hits $8 dollars a gallon. Even then, they may not notice; I don’t remember any main media discussing the detailed reasons for the Arab oil embargo, or making the link with US foreign policy of Israel right or wrong, do you? I’ve never met in person an actual American who even knows about it, but then again, I’m just an average lower middle class American, born and bred.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 25, 2013, 1:46 pm

        If the US cuts support the model will collapse.

    • marc b.
      marc b.
      August 25, 2013, 3:01 pm

      precisely, seafoid. aside from a small core of special forces, the advantage that the Israeli military has is primarily technological. the majority of the IDF/security forces is sadistic but soft and lack discipline.

      • marc b.
        marc b.
        August 25, 2013, 3:23 pm

        I have to read luttwak’s piece, but i’ll assume that it’s focus on the benefit of this strategy for Israel is a function of space/interest. it’s certainly a strategy that benefits the gulf degenerates as well.

        angry arab linked to an analysis of the arab undermining of the arab spring.

        http://www.sup.org/book.cgi?id=23053

        Toby Matthiesen’s new study of the Gulf counter-revolutions demonstrates how the Saudis, Bahrain and Kuwait have all combined repression and cash handouts with an almost instinctive sectarianism to keep demands for reform at bay.
        The Saudis had long fretted about unrest in their predominantly Shia eastern province — the heartland of the kingdom’s oil industry. But when republican dictators were being toppled in Tunis, Cairo and Tripoli and revolution was in the air just across the Gulf in Manama, anti-Shia feeling was ratcheted up with the mass arrests of local activists who were accused of being part of a “foreign conspiracy.” It was supposedly led by Iran, but beyond shrill propaganda from Tehran and dark hints about “sleeper cells,” there is no evidence of that.
        Matthiesen, an Arabist who had worked for the highly-respected International Crisis Group, blurs the boundaries between journalism and academia with nuggets of vivid reportage and background knowledge that translates obscure historical legacies into comprehensible contemporary terms. (Anti-Shia prejudice is akin in some ways to hostility to Catholics in Protestant culture). And the Gulf monarchies, as he puts it, “think strategically in sectarian terms, and shape their foreign policies in those terms.”
        In the end however it is more about power than faith. Matthiesen observes that the official discourse surrounding the alleged meddling of (the Shia) Iranian state and the transnational (Sunni) Muslim Brotherhood is actually very similar. And these allegations, he concludes, “are often about finding a scapegoat to deflect attention to an external enemy.” Saudi policy towards Bashar al-Assad — still one of the more opaque aspects of the Syrian crisis — includes the encouragement of vicious anti-Alawi rhetoric from Gulf-based Sunni clerics. (Alawis are an offshoot of Shi’ism). In Kuwait, official prejudice is directed against the Brotherhood (as it is, in spades, in the UAE), as well as the tribes and the stateless Bidoon.”

        so back to the ‘agency’ argument, and western impatience with the lack of democratic instincts among ‘arabs’.

  2. seanmcbride
    seanmcbride
    August 25, 2013, 12:39 pm

    Note this well:

    By tying down Mr. Assad’s army and its Iranian and Hezbollah allies in a war against Al Qaeda-aligned extremist fighters, four of Washington’s enemies will be engaged in war among themselves and prevented from attacking Americans or America’s allies.

    Israelis and pro-Israel activists (like Edward Luttwak) are urging Americans to provide support to al-Qaeda — the very same group which they also assert was responsible for 9/11 — the worst terrorist event in American history.

    At some point they are going to be undone by their bizarre self-contradictions — and much too much cleverness and selfish scheming. And all the parties that they have attempted to tie up in bloody wars may turn their full, undivided and unified attention to those who have attempted to manipulate them. Luttwak is playing a dangerous game.

    Among the many parties that have been manipulated: Americans themselves.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      August 25, 2013, 1:50 pm

      The US tying up with jihadis – I bet the NYPD love it.
      But that is the logic of monopoly capitalism.

  3. HarryLaw
    HarryLaw
    August 25, 2013, 12:57 pm

    Edward N. Luttwak’s best option for Israel/US in Syria is continued conflict,very cynical, but unfortunately for them Assad appears to be winning which would strengthen the arc of resistance Iran, Syria and Hezbollah, if Assad were to fall Hezbollah would be exposed and Iran would be confronted with a united Sunni front, something Iran nor Hezbollah will allow to happen, these wars are existential for all participants, the US would like a puppet in Syria but ultimately regime change in Iran is the prize.

  4. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    August 25, 2013, 1:27 pm

    The late lamented Richard Ben Cramer in his book ‘How Israel Lost’ of a few years ago based his analysis on the idea that the preferred option is ‘living without a solution’. This seems to be another variation on the same theme.

  5. ritzl
    ritzl
    August 25, 2013, 1:32 pm

    Managed (i.e. intentional) suffering is a better capture of the overall practice, internal and external. It really is a malignancy (abomination, sickness, pick a word).

    I understand what you are saying and sorry to be so angry on this all the time. This conflict has to be solved. Too high a cost for it to continue.

    The US is heading down the same road of managed conflict. We have about 50 years to go in our GWOT to match Israel’s mindset today (though as you show, the batsh*t crazy Luttwaks of the US policy establishment are merging the two). I’d like to think we come to our senses before that. At least we have Israel as a model/predictor/outcome, though it’s unclear whether the policy crosstalk/pro-Israel embeds/lack of “Arabists” will steer us away from seeing where we/US are going before something serious happens to us and the world.

  6. annie
    annie
    August 25, 2013, 1:40 pm

    the last blockquote is simply priceless

    The only possible explanation is that people in Gaza have been informing the Israelis exactly where Hamas fighters and leaders are hiding, and where weapons are stored.

    because we all know israel rarely makes use of surveillance technology, right? israel is really helping gazans, at their behest, to save them from their despicable rulers. why didn’t i think of this? “No doubt some informers are merely corrupt” he says, leaving the impression, by and large the people of gaza are relying on israel to rid them of hamas. israel is doing them a service..can’t you see? wow, such crafted ingenious propaganda from the nyt.

  7. James Canning
    James Canning
    August 25, 2013, 1:50 pm

    Terrible advice from Luttwak in the NYT. The US should be working with Russia and Iran in an effort to end the civil war asap.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      August 25, 2013, 11:36 pm

      It’s part of a bigger Sunni vs Shia conflagration in the making. How this could be in the long term interests of Judaism is beyond me. And the nihilism is gobsmacking.

      I met a traveller from an antique land
      Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
      Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
      Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown
      And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
      Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
      Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
      The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed.
      And on the pedestal these words appear:
      `My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
      Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!’
      Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
      Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
      The lone and level sands stretch far away”.

      • yrn
        yrn
        August 26, 2013, 9:44 am

        “It’s part of a bigger Sunni vs Shia conflagration in the making. How this could be in the long term interests of Judaism is beyond me.”

        This is only in your sick mind.
        Why do you think Judaism ever had any interest about your conflicts.
        You just kill one another for ages, it’s not a new issue.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 26, 2013, 1:28 pm

        Begin had his breakdown over just such a cunning sectarian plan in 82. He never returned to politics.

  8. James Canning
    James Canning
    August 25, 2013, 1:52 pm

    Surely Edward Luttwak knows that Hezbollah, Syria and Iran all sought better relations with the US in recent years. And that the Israel lobby blocked any improvement in US relations with Hezbollah, Syria and Iran.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 25, 2013, 4:28 pm

      @ James Canning
      Yes. The Israel First column in the US explains US actions and official blurring. Nothing has changed since Truman. US foreign policy is a domestic issue. The two complicit partners are the mainstream media owners/controllers and AIPAC et all.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 25, 2013, 7:24 pm

        Truman used to order sacks of mail from supporters of Israel to be burned. Without response. Zero chance Obama would do this.

        Aipac et al are indeed the problem, but complicity of US news media also is a large factor.

      • Marco
        Marco
        August 26, 2013, 9:33 am

        It’s too bad he didn’t order the sacks of money that won him reelection in 1948 burned as well. It seems like the presidents following the creation of Israel (with the exception of Johnson anyway) chaffed at having to genuflect to the Israeli lobby, but at the end of the day, they still established the template in Washington. Eventually you had presidents like Reagan and Clinton who no longer resisted their roles as Israel’s watchdogs.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 26, 2013, 2:27 pm

        @Marco – – Yes, Truman would have lost 1948 election had he not acceded to the demands of Emanuel Celler and his rich New York Jewish friends.

        Let’s remember Reagan “read the riot act” to Israeli PM a time or two. Obama would not dare to do the same.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        August 26, 2013, 3:24 pm

        @ Marco
        Yep. Truman burned a pile of trumped up Zionist letters once, and he complained in his diary that the Jews, once empowered, were no better than anyone else in bully status, but he still bowed to the Zionists’ money to pay for his whistle stop agenda. Ike had enough cred to stop not only Israel’s imperial colonialism, but also the last gasps of the French and Brits., and too, Bush Sr tried to hem the Israelis in by threatening to stop US loan guarantees to pay for Jews leaving the USSR, but otherwise, every POTUS has bowed to AIPAC et al. It’s utterly disgusting.

  9. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 25, 2013, 2:14 pm

    all this managed war and endless conflict is a bit of a disappointment

    Isaiah 26:6 NIV – “In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit.”

    • Byzantium
      Byzantium
      August 26, 2013, 3:53 am

      I fear we must prepare for darker prophecies instead:

      “Woe to him who piles up stolen goods and makes himself wealthy by extortion!How long must this go on? Will not your creditors suddenly arise? Will they not wake up and make you tremble? Then you will become their prey. Because you have plundered many nations, the peoples who are left will plunder you. For you have shed human blood; you have destroyed lands and cities and everyone in them.

      Woe to him who builds his house by unjust gain, setting his nest on high to escape the clutches of ruin! You have plotted the ruin of many peoples, shaming your own house and forfeiting your life. The stones of the wall will cry out, and the beams of the woodwork will echo it.

      Woe to him who builds a city with bloodshed and establishes a town by injustice!”

      (Habakkuk 2:6 – 12)

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 26, 2013, 3:33 pm

        I guess a lot of those ancient verses were based on bitter experience. But of course modern Israelis are oblivious to what the old guys understood.

  10. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870
    August 25, 2013, 2:43 pm

    RE: . . . Edward N. Luttwak has the very same prescription for Syria. “In Syria, America loses if either side wins.” Luttwak wants endless bloodshed– “four of Washington’s enemies” tied down in neverending war. It seems like these include Israel’s enemies, Hezbollah and Iran. ~ Weiss

    FROM WIKIPEDIA [Edward Luttwak]:

    Edward Nicolae Luttwak (born November 4, 1942) is an American military strategist, consultant, and historian who has published works on military strategy, history and international relations. He is chairman of the board of APFL, an aviation lessor, head of a conservation ranch in the Amazon, and active internationally as a consultant.
    Luttwak was born into a Jewish family in Arad, Romania, and raised in Italy and England. After elementary school in Palermo, Sicily, he attended Carmel College and Quintin Grammar in England, where he also received basic training in the British Army, and then the London School of Economics where he graduated in analytical economics in 1964. After working in London, Paris, and Jerusalem, he moved to the United States in 1972 . . .

    SOURCE – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Luttwak

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      August 25, 2013, 3:20 pm

      He has written extensively on the ancient world and was recently asked to review translations of the Iliad by the London Review of Books. Quite the polymath.

    • just
      just
      August 25, 2013, 3:46 pm

      Some great American he is……..NOT exactly an American firster.

      Good that Palermo got rid of this particular mafia boss, who apparently specializes in being a mercenary. Too bad that we were the recipients.

      From an interview with uh, “tabletmag”:

      “There have been many different explanations given over the past 10 years for the strength of the American-Israeli relationship, ranging from the idea that Israel has the best and most immediately deployable army in the Middle East, to the idea that a small cabal of wealthy and influential Jews has hijacked American foreign policy.

      You mean the Z.O.G.? The Zionist Occupied Government?

      Yes.

      Personally, from an emotional point of view, myself, as me, I prefer the Z.O.G. explanation above all others. I love the idea that the Zionists have sufficient power to actually occupy America, and through America to basically run the world. I love the idea of being a member of a secretive and powerful cabal. If you put my name Luttwak together with Perle and Wolfowitz and you search the Internet, you will get this little list of people who run the American government and the world, and I’m on it. I love that.”

      More junk here, if you dare/care– I just could not bring myself to link to the original interview……

      http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/09/edward-luttwak-zog-supremo/244661/

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 25, 2013, 5:26 pm

        The strength of the relationship is down to the quality of the money. Why otherwise would the empire notice a midranking country with no oil and less than 10m population? Israel is the ultimate well connected intern. But it will never have a real girlfriend.

  11. American
    American
    August 25, 2013, 2:47 pm

    As long as the I-Firsters have any influence at all on US policy the attitudes of the Luttwak-kinds will prevail in 95+% of US decisions.
    Will someone argue with me on the 95+%?
    I think the best they can do on that is force admission that allies like Saudi also have some sway.
    But I challange anyone to go back—ALL the way back —to the beginning (and before) Iraq and the Iran threat’ for instance and look at who ‘instigated and hyped’ that to the US –and “in” the ME to also motivate those like Saudi to see Iran as a threat they cant ‘come to a compromise with.
    Because before Iraq, Saudi and Iran, which is a part of the Syria equation, had managed to maintain at least a non belligerent agreement.
    Israel and it’s loyalist are the major Booga,bogga,bogga! promoters in the US & ME.
    And every booga booga creates a reactive booga booga…..a cycle of musical chairs to whatever booga wins the last chair.

  12. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    August 25, 2013, 3:15 pm

    I suppose you could argue that Luttwak, writing in his rather cynical style, is in the end trying to discourage intervention in Syria. Few people can foresee a good outcome for intervention and few western nations are really prepared to put those famous boots on the ground.
    I suppose that if I did think that intervention had more than the ghost of a chance of restoring peace and giving the Syrians a chance to make a fresh start, which they so much need, I would support it, even if one of its incidental effects was for a time to strengthen Israeli oppression of the Palestinians. But it’s not like that, as the picture painted by Luttwak shows.

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      August 25, 2013, 6:45 pm

      Perhpas we should be thankful Luttwak is not advocating an American imposition of no-fly zone, etc etc.

  13. jsinton
    jsinton
    August 25, 2013, 3:45 pm

    It was always my impression that the conflict in Syria was the result of nurturing someplace deep in the bowels of Washington. Some followers of Kissinger had realized they could suck all the resources out of those enemies by cultivating the Syrian civil war. Notice how the powers prolong the conflict, only aiding the rebels enough to stay in the conflict. It would be a huge mistake now to become directly involved, so the theory goes.

    • just
      just
      August 25, 2013, 4:25 pm

      We’ve messed up and manipulated enough already…

      The “theory” is actually correct. We will not win in Syria, or anywhere else, for that matter. We are too complicit and corrupt at this point. Nobody really trusts us anymore.

  14. American
    American
    August 25, 2013, 3:47 pm

    I am gonna try a repost here because I think it pertains to the ‘managed conflicts” discussion more than where I posted it. (mods delete other when it surfaces in the hopper plez).

    The US needs an alliance/agreement with Russia on the ME.
    I am going to keep saying this although I know ev.e.r.y.o.n.e believes that is like saying the moon is made of cheese. Because everyone has their own ideas and wishes about specific countries; what they ‘should be’, what the problem is, who the bad guys are and etc..
    Let’s start by accepting the fact that most ‘outside’ countries interest in the ME is in preventing chaos that could disrupt oil supples because of ‘global economic dependency’, not even necessarily their own ‘individual’ dependency on it.
    The US and Russia do not absolutely ‘have to have’ ME oil to keep going, whereas most of Europe is more dependent on it.
    It is the ‘interdependent’ global economy that makes the ME oil a critical factor for everyone.
    For that reason it is foolish to think there will ever not be outside powers interested, taking actions and taking whatever position on conflicts that looks to be the best bet for their own country’s needs and global economic considerations.
    Then “within” the ME itself you have ‘self interested powers and countries’ that are going to pursue their own goals to perserve themselves or ensure their control—Egypt, Iran, Saudi, the UAE, Israel, Syria are good examples. …with Saudi and Israel being the best current examples of the ME countries “that go out into the region’ with minipulatons and conflict creating to acheive their goals.
    Since it is highly improbable that the ME powers are ever going to do a ME style all inclusive “UN’ to settle competiton, perceived threats to individual powers and conflicts–whats the next best thing for the ME and the world?
    It’s got to be some kind of ‘umbrella’ –but not the ‘separate’ umbrellas’ we have now of a US umbrella for it’s allies and another Russian umbrella for it’s allies.
    It needs to be a agreement by the two world powers most able to enforce some ‘ground rules’ on ‘everyone ‘ and lead arbitrations between ME countries that produce compromises on differences so as to prevent hot conflicts that create chaos.
    Would such an agreement be possible between the US and Russia, given that they would both want to protect their own individual interest…but also given that they both, and the rest of the world also, understands that the impact on our interdependent global economics from ME chaos is actually the biggest threat to us, them and everyone else.
    The US has the absolute ‘wrong allies’ for what is happening in the ME.

    I am sure I will get pounded for this opinion …lol ….go ahead.

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      August 25, 2013, 4:17 pm

      For my money, a lot of truth in what you say.

    • just
      just
      August 25, 2013, 4:28 pm

      Both of your analyses certainly have merit. Lots of it, in fact.

      We should be working with Russia. We should be making peace with Iran. We need very much to speak directly to our “enemies” and the world with civility and honesty. No more of this forked- tongue business.

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      August 25, 2013, 7:21 pm

      I entirely agree the US should seek to work closely with Russia in pursuit of peace and stability in the ME. The US should also try to work with Iran, for same purpose.

  15. Justpassingby
    Justpassingby
    August 25, 2013, 3:56 pm

    Typical example of a israel-firster article. Nothing surprising west involvement in Syria is totally due israeli pressure.

  16. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    August 25, 2013, 4:14 pm

    Coup d’État: A Practical Handbook Paperback
    Coup d’État: A Practical Handbook Paperback
    Edward N. Luttwak

  17. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    August 25, 2013, 4:14 pm

    William Hague has stated in the last hour or so that the UN inspection of the Syrian battleground will probably be misled because the evidence has been destroyed or degraded, so that in any event there is a need for ‘a serious response by the international community’. I think this means that no action is contemplated at least until the UN has reported and even then I think it means putting pressure on the Russians through the Security Council. The Anglo powers don’t want to hand Syria over to the Sunni rebels. It’s the Saudis, I suppose, who want that. The Anglos want Assad’s departure and a compromise arrangement: this is argued by Jim Muir on the BBC News website.

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      August 25, 2013, 7:31 pm

      We’ll have to see what evidence is obtained.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 25, 2013, 9:52 pm

        The Brits and Americans are not interested in evidence. Look at the farce that happened last time.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 25, 2013, 11:38 pm

        And they can’t spin credibly about humanitarian intervention after Iraq.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      August 25, 2013, 9:36 pm

      I suspect that Hague realised that there is an enormous lack of enthusiasm in Britain for further adventures in the ME, and decided that this was a good way to (a) back down , and (b) avoid retracting the implication that it was the Assad regime that used the gas.

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      August 25, 2013, 10:00 pm

      Hague is a vile piece of work. So according to him, even though there is no evidence the Syruan government use CW, he will dismiss any evidence to the contrary, unless it implicated Assad.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        August 26, 2013, 9:43 am

        Listening again to Hague in full I think I should have placed more emphasis on his statement that full UN agreement is not necessary for intervention, though perhaps that too is a way of putting pressure on the Russians rather than a real immediate threat. Frank Gardner, the rather hardline BBC security correspondent, is saying that the intention is to send in some cruise missiles, to make a statement, rather than to start military cooperation with the anti-Assadists. But he also gave the impression that there would at least have to be a pause while the UN inspectors do their work, which is ‘tremendously important’. I think that that means that Hague’s dismissal of the inspectors, whatever they may say, is not going to be the whole story. I can’t really see Obama simply brushing a negative report aside, though perhaps American colleagues here know better. He’s got a 60% majority of public opinion against intervention to deal with, though, hasn’t he?

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 26, 2013, 2:31 pm

        A good thing, that Hague called UN weapons inspectors (and their future report) “highly important”.

        David Gardner has some intersting comments in FT today, re: possibility Syrian gov’t could have used chemical weapons despite obvious damage to itself, given past blunders of same sort.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 27, 2013, 12:39 am

        “Listening again to Hague in full..”

        I suppose someone’s got to do it.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 27, 2013, 12:46 am

        A good thing, that Hague called UN weapons inspectors (and their future report) “highly important”.

        That was before the Syrians and UN reached the agreement to allow inspections. Hague apparently though the agreement would be protracted, so when it was reached, it caught him and Washibgton off guard and inspections suddenly were dismissed as too little too late.

        Washington is already calling for inspectors to leave Syria, before they even started.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 26, 2013, 7:21 pm

        I would expect William Hauge to give close attention to UN inspectors’ report.

  18. seanmcbride
    seanmcbride
    August 25, 2013, 4:27 pm

    With American neoconservatives of Edward Luttwak’s profile (Jewish nationalists), it always comes back to their narrow ethnic self-interest and the interests of Israel — it’s never about the interests of the American people as a whole — they simply don’t care. We are just pieces on the Israeli strategic chessboard — along with Arabs, Muslims, Iranians, Christians, Europeans, Russians, the Chinese, etc. — suckers to be played off against one another and bled.

    What is fascinating is just how open many neocons are in revealing their ethnocentric attitudes to the world — especially in their in-house publications and policy centers.

  19. irishmoses
    irishmoses
    August 25, 2013, 6:56 pm

    I prefer “managed chaos” to managed conflict. I think what we are seeing in Syria essentially duplicates the neocon strategy in the Iraq invasion: Stir things up so there is a lot of nasty ethnic conflict. To hell with all the dead and wounded civilians, not to mention hundreds of thousands of refugees, the chaos, carnage, and fracturing weakens Israel’s enemies so it has to be good.

    Most thought the US merely screwed up in not providing a big enough troop footprint after the Iraq invasion to insure stability and prevent the certainty of Shia/Sunni/Kurd ethnic strife. My belief is that it was done deliberately because the goal was to permanently weaken Iraq.

    There is a great quote from General Anthony Zinni in Tom Ricks’ book about the Iraq invasion, FIASCO. Zinni felt the neocons didn’t give a shit what happened in Iraq after the invasion, and that inter-ethnic chaos would be fine as it would take the pressure off Israel. In other words, the goal in the invasion was not to provide a stable, democratic Iraq (which could still be a threat to Israel), but to create chaos and hope Iraq fractured along ethnic lines making it incapable of being a threat to Israel. That ploy seems to have played out pretty well.

    I see the same strategy playing out in Syria, and maybe Egypt as well. The goal seems to be to do what the neocons think is best for Israel. Since prolonged ethnic strife really weakens and debilitates a country, just help provide the ingredients then sit back and watch the carnage.

    Notice how Israel, the military powerhouse of the region, and our “main strategic ally”, quietly remains on the sidelines, leaving it to the US to “manage” these conflicts. Why isn’t our “main strategic ally” stepping up and leading the effort to help with the refugees, to arm the rebels, to retaliate for use of chemical weapons? Isn’t that what strategic allies are for? Color me naive.

    We now have the three biggest potential threats to Israel (Iraq, Egypt, and Syria) writhing in ethnic chaos while Obama says “Tsk, tsk”. What a coincidence.

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      August 25, 2013, 7:29 pm

      irish – – neocon warmongers “sold” the illegal invasion by claiming it would not cost US taxpayers any money, or very little. And Rumsfeld wanted to try out new lean attack strategies.

      Civil war in Iraq was product of idiotic dissolution of Iraqi army and other security services. After Saddam was overthrown.

    • bintbiba
      bintbiba
      August 25, 2013, 8:28 pm

      The descent of the World into madness!! People in countries being manipulated to serve the puppeteers, when the Levant, ME, Iran (Persia) have such ancient Histories and Cultures, being threatened , trampled on by the greed , ambition and venality of the more powerful.
      American , you make so much sense!

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 25, 2013, 9:07 pm

      @ Irishmoses
      Israel has performed airstrikes on the Syrian regime 4x since this civil war began happening–each of those is a de facto declaration of war, and 4 of them, what else could it be? Anyway, this Israeli rag says Obama should have put his money where his mouth was when he spoke about the red line, and now it’s too late, even if Obama attacked Assad because Al Quaida is firmly entrenched in the outcome: http://israelmatzav.blogspot.com

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      August 26, 2013, 10:32 am

      ” I think what we are seeing in Syria essentially duplicates the neocon strategy in the Iraq invasion: Stir things up so there is a lot of nasty ethnic conflict. To hell with all the dead and wounded civilians, not to mention hundreds of thousands of refugees, the chaos, carnage, and fracturing weakens Israel’s enemies so it has to be good.”

      Iraq cost the US the guts of 3 trillion dollars. That’s 3 million million.
      Had a big part in the evolution of the financial crisis and the decline of American power.
      Will end up savaging programs like Medicare. I don’t think this was the plan from the get go.
      Rumsfeld and co were incompetent as elites often are.
      I know AIPAC and co are insistent and calculating but why would the GOP sink the US economy for the sake of Israel?

      • irishmoses
        irishmoses
        August 26, 2013, 11:55 am

        Seafoid,
        1. Spot on. Tying the cost of supporting Israel and its neocon US military ventures to the loss of actual benefits to US citizens and US infrastructure is a great way of bringing home the harm Israel and its neocon lackies are doing to the US and its citizens.
        2. I think the GOP and the Dems see Israel as almost a part of the US and that their interests (Israel and US) are identical. I doubt the GOP/neocons really thought the Iraq war would be costly. They were saying at the time that it would pay for itself with Iraqi oil revenue.

      • James Canning
        James Canning
        August 26, 2013, 2:33 pm

        I think the cost of the war to the US was intentionally minimised, to make it easier for the politicians to move forward with idiotic invasion.

  20. gingershot
    gingershot
    August 25, 2013, 7:29 pm

    Kerry has served his role – buying the Israeli Apartheid state time to turn the Middle East into flames around her. ‘Who cares about Palestinians when the Middle East is burning’ is an Israeli maxim

    Israelis are not just out to create a state of ‘managed conflict’ in order to sustain Apartheid/Occupation over Palestine (their internal Arab enemy)- they’re out of manage conflict with the entire Middle East (their external Arab/Muslim enemy)

    Israel is one of the main backers of the Mubarak/Egyptian Military, along with Saudi Arabia and the other US/Israeli Lobby- supported tyrannies in the Middle East

    Israeli is one of the main supporters of dismembering Syria (according to Clean Break-type plans) and is actively a belligerent with repeated bombings of Syria. Israel along with her Israeli Lobby in the US are amongst the main cheerleaders for igniting a war in Syria

    Israel will use Syria as it’s backdoor to Iran – or as it’s backdoor for hoaxing the US into Iran – as soon as it can

    Israel and her Israeli Lobby hoaxed the US into the war with Iraq, have done everything they could to hoax the US into a war with Iran, and now are doing everything they can (including what is probably this latest of the last 4 “Syrian” false flag gas attacks) to hoax the US into a war with Israel

    Israeli Apartheid and the ‘Samson Option-like’ options that Israeli/Israeli Lobby leaders are FORCED to use to try to sustain Israeli Apartheid – is not only destabilizing to Israel itself, it is terribly destabilizing to the region as well as the world.

    This is one of the best reasons for doing away with Apartheid in Israel – it will dramatically REDUCE Israeli bellicosity, provocations, and use of her Lobby in the US to tear Muslim countries in the Middle East apart (which is the Clean Break Plan)

    Kerry and Abbas were the men who gave the Israelis this critical window to operate and the Israelis are exploiting it – with Syria, Egypt and undoubtedly soon Iran, again – to the max

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 25, 2013, 9:16 pm

      @ gingershot
      I agree with your take on this subject matter. To me it seems very obvious to anyone paying some attention it. Of course the Zionists have been dissing the theme for ages as soon as it’s brought up, the theme wrought from what terrorists have repeated ever since the 9/11 attackers stated it: the major motive is the impact on the Arab locals of US-Israeli policy in the Middle East. The 9/11 Commission itself discovered this, but, for public consumption, it characterized this specific merely generic foreign policy blowback. (“Yeah, right, if only Israel stops picking on the Palestinians, that will end all the Arab strife in the Middle East!”)

  21. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 26, 2013, 12:08 am

    “Israelis are not just out to create a state of ‘managed conflict’ in order to sustain Apartheid/Occupation over Palestine (their internal Arab enemy)- they’re out of manage conflict with the entire Middle East (their external Arab/Muslim enemy)”

    Their external Arab/Muslim enemy
    Don’t forget their other sworn enemies -the fish populations of the Mediterranean and Red Seas .
    Who are virulently anti semitic and hate Jews ™. Especially those with fishing boats.

    “They’re out to manage conflict with the entire Middle East”. I think they are too. Very like Japan in the 1930s. You have a gigantic army. It wants wars, because it wants to preserve its cashflow and influence. It has the local media around its finger. Can manage everything. Never ends well.

    “During the war we were taught that Japan, the land of the Gods, was a righteous, divine country and that America was an evil, barbaric country. We didn’t actually believe this, but merely followed along, thinking that, since there was no such thing as a just war , such poisonous, simple minded rhetoric was a way to whip up a state of furious belligerence in the people. Again, we had doubts as to whether or not Japan would be capable of guiding the Greater Asia c0-prosperity sphere.. We did not think we would be defeated. It was not that we were so convinced of victory we never thought of defeat. It was simply unbearable to contemplate it, and because we could not imagine what our fate would be afterward we shielded our eyes from the possibility and went on believing in certain victory.
    ….
    People of the future will find it strange that during the war we so easily accepted an education smacking of distorted self esteem and hostility that advocated such preposterous ambitions, but for us the reasons seemed compelling”

    Diary of writer Yamada Futaro, October 1945, quoted in “So Lovely a country will never perish” p 152-153

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 26, 2013, 8:42 am

      Wartime diaries of Japanese writers:
      http://www.nyjournalofbooks.com/review/so-lovely-country-will-not-perish-wartime-diaries-japanese-writers

      This review gives a good feeling of Japanese people’s total (pleasant) surprise when they first met young American soldiers upon occupation. It also heavily suggests, from the horses mouth, that if Truman had not dropped the two big bombs, the war would likely have gone for years, and that the Imperial military tried for a coup; the Emperor (The Living God)’s audio tape to the Japanese People had to be hid–once they heard the tape, they switched on a dime from absolute belief in their war to surrender mentality. One Japanese poet says in his diary that the Japanese believed they had to go to war to prove they were as good as the white man.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 26, 2013, 3:00 pm

        From the same book

        “The shinchoku, a prediction that Japan would prosper forever, was pronounced by the great Shinto goddess Amatseru on sending her grandson down from heaven. ”

        Don’t it just sound like the justification for the Jewish presence in Hebron and the takeover of East Jerusalem?

        Religion and militarism are a lethal combination.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        August 26, 2013, 3:30 pm

        @ seafoid
        Yes it does. It’s really depressing.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        August 26, 2013, 4:43 pm

        The review is really a mix bag concerning the end-of-war issues. It has some factual problems (Hirohito’s speech was recorded on a gramaphone record, not audio tape) and leaves out quite a few key facts. It also suggests that the notion that the bomb wasn’t the key in ending the war is a Western thing actually overlooks key non-Western work, especially Tsuyoshi Hasegawa’s recent(ish) book. Also, to describe the Kyujo incident as “the Imperial military tried for a coup” is not really correct. It involved a relatively small number of officers and was put down by the Imperial military. (Indeed, it was doomed to failure one Anami decided not to back it.)

        Two things it does get right is the concern for the war going on a few more years (and this was a HUGE concern for the Americans) and the reference to the racism issues. The Japanese were subject to some significant racism in international affairs (as all non-Western countries were). James Bradley’s book, The Imperial Cruise does a good job in demonstrating a lot of how those issues worked out in Asia in pre-war times. Very interesting stuff.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 26, 2013, 9:34 am

      Here’s another Japanese diary from the war that is a testament to how a nation’s leaders can stupidly bring their people to total disaster with the mentality of a schoolyard bully–something worth pondering since our American leaders seem to think diplomacy is not useful, is passe, but only war and the threat of it (“because that’s all they understand”): http://www.amazon.com/Diary-Darkness-Wartime-Kiyosawa-Kiyoshi/dp/0691140308/ref=pd_sim_b_2

      I think the Israeli mentality of how to deal domestically and in foreign affairs is not a good model for America, but I think it has heavily influenced the PTB in America.

  22. eGuard
    eGuard
    August 26, 2013, 3:55 am

    Luttwak: That this [continuous war] is now the best option is unfortunate, indeed tragic, but favoring it is not a cruel imposition on the people of Syria, because a great majority of them are facing exactly the same predicament. Not cruel eh.

    Now just letting the war go on might not seem that cruel. After all, more countries are doing that. But Luttwak also writes: Maintaining a stalemate should be America’s objective. And the only possible method for achieving this is to arm the rebels when it seems that Mr. Assad’s forces are ascendant and to stop supplying the rebels if they actually seem to be winning.

  23. giladg
    giladg
    August 26, 2013, 6:47 am

    To all you impressionable Jews who are starting out in the activism world, you should know that the likes of Philip Weiss are leading you astray. They refrain from placing any demands on the Palestinians to recognize that Jews have a long history in the region and that Jews have ancient claims and rights to many of the things that the Palestinians want. By continually leaving these things out, it is easy to get caught up in the falsehoods that he and other here like to project. Don’t accept what they say. Do the homework yourself. History in this region did not start 60 years ago, although the Palestinians would like you to believe this.

    • seanmcbride
      seanmcbride
      August 26, 2013, 1:54 pm

      giladg,

      Regarding a recent remark of yours:

      Trust the goy, they will always show their true colors.

      Are you saying that all non-Jews are evil or are innately enemies of “the Jews”?

      From where did you imbibe this doctrine — and isn’t it fair to describe it as a racist or supremacist doctrine?

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      August 26, 2013, 2:17 pm

      The Palestinians and all Arab countries will accept Israel within pre-1967 borders. Not good enough for you, apparently.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 26, 2013, 3:40 pm

      @ giladg

      Yes, according to the fabled bible Jews had a thing going in the land centuries ago until the Egyptians kicked them out. And now, that entitles them to come into the region again and kick out the Arabs who never left. This sort of logic allows anybody to go to Africa and take it over because we humans have been said to be all sourced in Africa.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 27, 2013, 3:29 am

        Yes, according to the fabled bible Jews had a thing going in the land centuries ago until the Egyptians kicked them out.

        The biblical accounts are myth. The Israelites were never in Egypt.

        And now, that entitles them to come into the region again and kick out the Arabs who never left.

        No it doesn’t, which is why the Jews had to wait for Britain, the LON and the UN to facilitate their colonization of Palestine.

        Secondly, if what you way were true, then Israeli apologists and Israel’s leadership would’t be going to such extraordinary measures to deny this is what happened.

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      August 26, 2013, 4:52 pm

      To all you impressionable Jews who are starting out in the activism world, you should know that the likes of Philip Weiss are leading you astray

      To all you impressionable Jews who are starting out in the activism world, you should know that the likes of Giladg is a laughing stock on every forum in which he appears, and represents everything that is wrong with Zionism.

      But do follow hos advice and do your homework, eapecually to the messianic and delusional claims by Gilad. You’ll discover that he has lost every argument about Jewish privilege and historical claim to the territory and that the state create in 1948 has absolutely nothing to do with any previous civilization that may have existed (then ceased to) thousands of years ago.

      • giladg
        giladg
        August 26, 2013, 6:06 pm

        Not only does he not place demands on the Palestinians but the very fact that he does criticize Israel is the reason anyone on the Left actually reads what he says. If he was to have an epifany and flipped, he would be discarded and ignored. They would not even give him the time of day.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 26, 2013, 7:55 pm

        Not only does he not place demands on the Palestinians but the very fact that he does criticize Israel is the reason anyone on the Left actually reads what he says.

        Other than the fact that you are ignoring that Israel is doing all the occupying and land stealing, and violating international law, it’s funny that you overlook the irony that you are among his readership.

        Are you admitting you are on the left?

        If he was to have an epifany and flipped, he would be discarded and ignored.

        No, he would have hasbarats like you to welcome him. In fact, he’d probabyl get a job offer from the NYT.

        If he was to have an epifany and flipped, he would be discarded and ignored. They would not even give him the time of day.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        August 27, 2013, 8:22 am

        Gilad

        Left may be an insult in Israel on a par with child abuser but that’s not valid anywhere outside the Hebrew speaking zone .

        Lefties brought the world the weekend as well as social insurance. .

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 27, 2013, 8:36 am

        Left may be an insult in Israel on a par with child abuser but that’s not valid anywhere outside the Hebrew speaking zone .

        So is the word peacemaker, law abider, humanist, and believer is equality and universalism. In Israel, everything is upside down and back to front.

        Lefties brought the world the weekend as well as social insurance.

        And Israel, seeing as Israel is a welfare state.

    • talknic
      talknic
      August 26, 2013, 9:26 pm

      @ giladg “History in this region did not start 60 years ago, although the Palestinians would like you to believe this”

      You’re spouting complete nonsense.

      As of precisely 00:01 15th May 1948 (ME time) http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf history is completely irrelevant to the legal status of Israeli’s actual sovereign extent and the legality or illegality of Israel’s actions as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli territories.

      ” Jews have a long history in the region and that Jews have ancient claims and rights to many of the things that the Palestinians want”

      From the moment the Jewish state was declared, Israeli citizens do not have any right to any territory outside the State of Israel. (Israel has never legally annexed any territories to it’s recognized sovereign extent. It has been inadmissible to acquire territory by war since at least 1933, any war! http://pages.citebite.com/y1f0t4q1v4son )

    • Ludwig
      Ludwig
      August 26, 2013, 9:32 pm

      I completely agree with giladg. Well said, don’t be lead astray! Jews have an ancient history in Israel and we aren’t going anywhere.

      • irishmoses
        irishmoses
        August 27, 2013, 1:00 am

        Ludwig said:
        ***”I completely agree with giladg. Well said, don’t be lead astray! Jews have an ancient history in Israel and we aren’t going anywhere.”***
        1. Nobody is asking you to go anywhere, just allow the poor Palestinians a mere 22 percent of the land you took from them.
        2. It’s “led” not “lead”. Lead is what bullets are made from, but you knew that. you’ve used lots of lead to steal the land and oppress another people.
        3. The Irish have a 5000 year ancient history in Ireland and I am a US citizen of half Irish descent. Ergo (#1), I must have the right to return to Ireland, claim Irish citizenship, evict the non-Irish citizens, claim Irish welfare benefits, etc. I can then say “We Irish have an ancient history in Ireland and we ain’t going anywhere.” And, ergo (#2), I am also half British by descent and can thus claim British citizenship and all the benefits that might entail. My ancestral claims to Irish and British citizenship only go back about 150 years when my ancestors had to leave those wonderful lands due to famine and religious persecution.
        If I really wanted to stretch my ancestral claims to foreign land citizenship, I could go back 1000 years or so and stake my claim to a nice plot in Normandy, or Iceland, or maybe Norway. Thanks for the tip Giladg and Ludwig. I’ll be calling the Los Angeles British and Irish consulates tomorrow to stake my ancestral claims for instant Irish and British citizenship. I’m sure they’ll welcome me with open arms.
        4. The Zionist legal claim to some portion of Mandate Palestine stems solely from the Balfour Declaration and its 1923 ratification by the League of Nations. That ratification includes lots of limiting conditions and also includes the second clause of Balfour which says ” it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine.” Just when do you plan on extending equal civil rights to the non-Jewish citizens of Israel, let alone to the oppressed millions of Palestinian Arab Muslims and Christians who live in the “territories” you have illegally occupied and illegally settled since 1967? What about the millions of stateless Palestinians who continue to rot in the squalor of refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan? You trampled all over their Balfour guaranteed civil rights in 1948 and 1967. When do they get justice. When does their ancestral right to return to their ancient homeland apply?
        5. You say you are in complete agreement with your buddy Giladg but you offer no arguments or reasons. Why don’t you start by responding to points 1-4 to test and prove your metttle to the poor confused newcomers you are trying to protect.

        Have a go mate.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 27, 2013, 3:25 am

        I completely agree with giladg.

        Of course you do, you belong to the same messianic cult.

        Jews have an ancient history in Israel and we aren’t going anywhere.

        Be that as it may, Israel is only 65 years old, so it’s certainly not part of ancient history.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      August 26, 2013, 10:26 pm

      “Jews have a long history in the region”

      Palestinian Jews, certainly, but not European, American, or other foreign Jews.

      “and that Jews have ancient claims and rights to many of the things that the Palestinians want.”

      Palestinian Jews, certainly, but not European, American, or other foreign Jews.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        August 27, 2013, 1:35 am

        No Roha,

        No group has ancient claims to anything in Palestine. The only claims anyone has is individual title claims to private property.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 27, 2013, 9:39 pm

        “The only claims anyone has is individual title claims to private property.”

        Legitimate residents have claims to common property. Of course, their rights of residence, sovereignty, equality, etc, do not depend on property ownership.

    • ziusudra
      ziusudra
      August 27, 2013, 6:06 am

      Greetings giladg,
      …. Jews have a long history in the area…….
      I agree giladg.
      Anybody who speaks an Afro/Asian tongue like Arabic, Aramaic & Hebrew are Semites.
      Just like all Euros are called Indo/Germanic.
      Iran is Indi/Euro. etc.
      The Long history of the Hebrew speaking semites was stilled in 722BC with the disappearance of 10 tribes from the Kingdom of the Israelites.
      The two remaining Levy & Bejamine tribes got sacked in 586BC.
      Only 5K came back to Jerusalem in 456BC.
      They dropped Hebrew for Aramaic – due to so few in numbers- in 200BC & also began migrating to Greece running from the ‘sicari’ (short swords in Hebrew.)ofthe Macedonians.
      Those who survived, survived as a minority under many other peoples.
      Their survival was filled with annihilation especially from Roman rule.
      Again they migrated to Euro., this time to Rome.
      Later the Sarazen/Arab conquest uprooted them totally in 636AD/1200AD.
      The Ottoman conquest wasn’t a Party either.
      What – long history – are you vomiting about?
      ziusudra
      PS The Falesteeni have a long unterrupted history in Canaan/Falesteena ca. 90K yrs.! That’s 90.000 years!

  24. upsidedownism
    upsidedownism
    August 26, 2013, 7:34 am

    instead of ‘managed conflict’ one might better use the term ‘managed extinction.’

    Palestinian civilization is being extinguished before our eyes; the Israeli’s may be the agents of this extinction. but the USA it the manager.

    Don’t doubt that the USA is at war with Palestine, the people of Palestine. One should look at the US government’s role as analogous to the Indian wars of the 19th century. Just as the USA provides money and backs the Palestinian authority today, it provided reservations, money, and funding for compliant native American organizations 2 centuries ago. Americans living in the Eastern United States, in general, did not perceive that their government was at war with native Americans; they thought the role of the government was generally helpful and benevolent in dealing with the the non -Christian ‘savages.’ We talk today of the ‘Israeli-Palestinian’ conflict. In the future it will be known by other names, including one’s like the US-Palestinian conflict.

    • James Canning
      James Canning
      August 26, 2013, 2:24 pm

      Left to his own devices, without ISRAEL LOBBY sitting on his shoulders, Obama probalby would like to see Israel GET OUT of the West Bank. And the Golan Heights too.

  25. Citizen
    Citizen
    August 26, 2013, 8:15 am

    Breaking news: PA cancelled the 4th peace talk, scheduled for today Monday–because
    the IDF killed 3 Palestinians (and wounded 15 more) in the WB: http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Palestinian-official-Peace-talks-meeting-canceled-after-IDF-kills-3-in-West-Bank-clashes-324277

  26. traintosiberia
    traintosiberia
    August 26, 2013, 8:53 am

    In the book NeoConned again an Italian writer writes about a conversation the author had with Edward N. Luttwak in around 1990 .The author was told the reason Edward N. Luttwak was interested in this war for [Saddam is not like the Saudi Princes who spend money on prostitutes and wines .He is building the country. If that were allowed to happen, Iraq would be the most advanced power in ME and that should not be allowed to happen] The verabitm answers are much more gory and sordid.

  27. Citizen
    Citizen
    August 26, 2013, 10:13 am

    Suggested: Top 10 reasons not to attack Syria & Obama’s pristine hypocritical nature–the more he blabs about why we should not just jump in there, the more he’s preparing to do just that–his modus operandi:
    http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/26/lying-about-syria/

  28. seafoid
    seafoid
    August 26, 2013, 11:14 am

    Hare Psychopathy Checklist for Israel

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist

    Factor 1: Interpersonal/Affective”

    Glibness/superficial charm – Oren
    Grandiose sense of self-worth – Netanyahu
    Pathological lying – Abba Eban
    Cunning/manipulative – Danon
    Lack of remorse or guilt -Olmert
    Shallow affect – Livni
    (genuine emotion is short-lived and egocentric)
    Callousness; lack of empathy – Mofaz
    Failure to accept responsibility for his or her own actions – all of them

    Factor 2: Lifestyle/Antisocial.”

    Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom – IDF turkey shoots
    Parasitic lifestyle – AIPAC
    Poor behavioral control – ADL
    Lack of realistic long-term goals – WZO

    Impulsiveness – IDF
    Irresponsibility – Shin Bet

    • just
      just
      August 26, 2013, 10:02 pm

      Well done!

      And what about Naftali Bennett? Mark Regev? Micky Rosenfeld? Avigdor Lieberman? Danny Seaman?

      Etc. One could go on forever plumbing the depths of the psychopathy of these folks.

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