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‘NYT’ offers cloak to religious zealots storming Al Aqsa– ‘mainstream Jews’

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Something jumped out at me reading the recent New York Times article, “Jews Challenge Rules to Claim Heart of Jerusalem.”  The Sept. 21 story was about “small groups of Jews” increasingly ascending the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City, the sacred site Haram al-Sharif, the Noble Sanctuary for Muslims — who see the visits as a provocation.

The billing for the piece stated: “More mainstream Jews are seeking to enter and pray at the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.”

Just who are these ‘mainstream’ Jews? Reporter Jodi Rudoren wrote:

For decades the Israelis drawn to the site were mainly a fringe of hard-core zealots, but now more mainstream Jews are lining up to enter, as a widening group of Israeli politicians and rabbis challenge the longstanding rules constraining Jewish access and conduct.

Rudoren also mentions the violence this practice has fostered:

“A spate of stone-throwing clashes erupted this month”.

“Stone-throwing clashes”? Here’s a close up of Israeli forces making way for Jewish worshipers on Rosh Hashanah, Sept 4-6, more than two weeks before the story was published. The video below shows their entrance into the area. You will see continual blasts from the soldiers. It looks like an invasion.

This next video is a few minutes later. The blasts continue in earnest. It sounds like shock and awe. Notice the panic and fear and defiance that it stirs among Muslims on the Noble Sanctuary.

And later still– the place looks like a warzone. Phalanxes of soldiers race through with fingers on the triggers. More blasts. Sirens. A cleared plaza.

Are these actually “stone-throwing clashes”? No. They’re highly-militarized interventions. The evidence is not hard to find. There are literally dozens of videos uploaded on YouTube for Rosh Hashanah, showing scores of soldiers clearing an area with loud, offensive and frightening explosions to create a path for Jewish worshipers. It’s extremely provocative.

Now let’s consider the Times’ claim that these are mainstream Jews, not zealots, going to the Temple Mount.

Over the last few years, a cause long taken up by only a fringe group of far right-wingers has increasingly been embraced by the modern Orthodox — known here as religious Zionists — who have also gained political power. At three recent Parliament hearings, religious lawmakers and cabinet ministers questioned the status quo, in which non-Muslims can enter the site only for a few hours five days a week, and those identified by the police as Jews are separated, escorted by police officers and admonished not to dance, sing, bow down or even move their lips in prayer.

Nowhere does the Times article state that these lawmakers are extremists. Take Deputy Knesset Speaker Moshe Feiglin. He is a well-known religious fanatic and supporter of Rabbi Meir Kahane, and was part of a group of settlers that stormed the mosque on Monday, under the protection of Israeli Police.

As we have pointed out many times, the Israeli mainstream has become more rightwing and fanatical in recent years. But when the Times says mainstream, it means warm and fuzzy.

For instance, Rudoren interviews Jack Stroh. Just a cardiologist from New Jersey with a religious interest:

Jack Stroh, a cardiologist from East Brunswick, N.J., who visited on Wednesday, has been bringing friends for five years before the holidays of Sukkot and Passover — two of three pilgrimage festivals when ancient Jews were required to pray at the temples.

“My cousin said that if Jews don’t go up to the mountain there is an increased chance that the government will say Jews are not interested and will give it away,” he said as his group waited to enter. “I’m taking them up. Someone took me up. They’ll take other people up; it’s a growing phenomenon.”

But Stroh is not hard to find online. That’s him on the left below. Interviewed in 2007 by NJ Jewish News online, Stroh arranges trips for Americans to show off Israeli “anti terror units”.

 

“We learned how to fire M-16s. [Stroh said] They took us to their firing range where they have dummies, some of whom are supposed to be civilians and some of whom are terrorists. Some might be women. How do you know which is which?”..

Stroh said he had been contacted by Yisrael Margolin, a former Highland Park resident who made aliya in 2000…

Margolin, reached in Israel by e-mail, said the idea to create volunteer teams to counter terrorist infiltrations came from the IDF itself. There are now 320 such teams all over Israel that have been trained by Magen Yehuda, which means “shield of Judea.”

Now check out this Magen Yehuda video. Mainstream? Really? This is just militant Zionism. And if that’s now the Israeli mainstream, shouldn’t the Times be explaining how rightwing Israel is these days?

Now look at the Times video that accompanies the story: Conflict Grows Over Temple Mount. The Times interviews Rabbi Chaim Richman, director of  The Temple Institute.  Mainstream? Look at the institute’s  website:

For the last 26 years only one organization has been actively preparing for the building of the Holy Temple in Jerusalem.

 

Let’s be clear about this agenda. Richman is dedicated to the rebuilding of the Holy Temple on the third holiest site for Muslims. In a word, he’s a religious zealot.

Now scroll up again and look at the dozens and dozens and dozens of Israeli soldiers storming Al Aqsa at 1:05 in the video. At 2:01 see how they have cleared the area.

Then recall the hundreds, some said thousands, of Israeli forces deployed inside and around the Church of Holy Sepulcher Easter Mass 2013, surrounding the Old City, preventing Palestinian Christians from worshiping. Many worshipers were attacked.

Over 300 right-wing Israelis enter al-Aqsa compound with armed guards for the Jewish holiday of Sukkot on Sunday. Yesterday 15 Jerusalemites were arrested and 40 injured peacefully protesting outside Al Aqsa (video below).

Jerusalem is a Holy City and it is not being treated in a holy way. Al Aqsa is on coveted ground, and it is being threatened by religious nationalist zealots. These are not just ‘clashes’, they are extremely provocative moves by authorities in the guise of ‘protecting worshipers’, many with designs on the destruction of Al Aqsa. This escalates tension and the situation demands international redress, immediately, before the situation leads to violence against the Mosque.

 

 

annie
About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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70 Responses

  1. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    September 25, 2013, 1:12 pm

    This is absolutely abhorant. It’s like the run up to the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas.

    • annie
      annie
      September 25, 2013, 1:17 pm

      i agree woody, it’s so big it can no longer be ignored by the outside world. but covering it in such a way as to mask the fanaticism behind the thrust of this movement is dangerous. the threat to the region if this continues to escalate, is huge. massive. the mosque is threatened.

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        September 25, 2013, 6:53 pm

        I would suggest it appears that over the few months she’s been there, the fascist right of Israel has become internalised and normalised for Rudoren. If she can accept them as the Israeli ‘mainstream’ without a sense of horror at the coming future.
        Edit: maybe they’ve been ‘love-bombing’ her. If she meets all these nice cuddly folk who treat her sooo well, how can she think ill of them?

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 25, 2013, 7:33 pm

        I thought she did a good job. She’s making the point that some parts of mainstream Israel are getting in on this craziness and they are doing that with official backing and protection. I don’t know if there is a standard of editorializing that is missing here but I sure got the message.

  2. Mike_Konrad
    Mike_Konrad
    September 25, 2013, 2:02 pm

    Whatever one feels about the validity of the Southern (Al-Aqsa) Mosque, Jews should be allowed to pray on the Temple Mount.

    The fight for Arab civil rights should be focused on appropriate concerns like getting building permits and stopping housing demolitions; but denying Jews a right to pray at the historic Jewish Temple Mount is not a legitimate Arab civil right.

    Forbidding Jews to pray at the site is bogus.

    • annie
      annie
      September 25, 2013, 2:06 pm

      mike, what do you mean by “the validity” of Al-Aqsa Mosque?

      are people denying it’s a real mosque? do tell.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      September 25, 2013, 2:20 pm

      The Jews have their spot at the Western Wall; the Muslims have theirs as the Aqsa Mosque. Preserving that status quo is the only valid solution.

      The history of the zionist movement has demonstrated that any claim that the Palestinians should “share” is quickly followed by Jewish exclusivity enforced with the death of Palestinians. What you are calling for is the further destruction of the Palestinian and Muslim culture and rights in their own land.

      Further, who the hell are you to tell the Palestinians and the Muslims of the world what is or is not a “legitimate” or “bogus” concern of theirs?? I might think that the Jews’ desire to pray at al-Haram ash-Sharif is bogus, but it’s not my place to insist that they agree.

    • Hostage
      Hostage
      September 25, 2013, 2:24 pm

      but denying Jews a right to pray at the historic Jewish Temple Mount

      Would be hard to do, since no one living today knows exactly where the historic Jewish Temples actually stood in the first place. There is no valid religious requirement for masses of ordinary Jews to pray there either. Even if the Holy of Holies was located inside the Dome of the Rock, only the Jewish High Priest is allowed to go there once a year. The idea that other Jews need to trespass there is a bunch of made-up nationalistic bullshit.

      • OlegR
        OlegR
        September 25, 2013, 2:33 pm

        Are you religious now Hostage ?
        You are telling Jews where they can and can’t pray?
        Where their holy sites are located ?
        You are a Rabbinical authority of some sort ?
        With a congregation of followers ?

      • annie
        annie
        September 25, 2013, 3:07 pm

        You are a Rabbinical authority of some sort ?

        oleg, “Israel’s chief rabbinate still maintains the Mount is off limits to Jews,” [ http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/world/middleeast/jews-challenge-rules-to-claim-heart-of-jerusalem.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0 ] i suppose you wouldn’t be asking him that now would you? after almost 2000 years, why change this now? ruderon writes:

        Experts who have observed the phenomenon also see it as a reaction to Israel’s evacuation of Jews from the Gaza Strip in 2005, a redirection of Messianic energy once devoted to West Bank settlements that many fear could soon succumb to the same fate to make way for a Palestinian state.

        don’t you think this is a rather provocative time to adjust almost 2000 years of practice? why now, during this heightened judaization of jerusalem? i mean really..get a grip. have you seen the videos presented? these are highly militarized incursions. it’s radically inflammatory, you’d think the government and rabbinical authorities could get together and put a stop to this dangerous new ‘phenomena’.

      • eljay
        eljay
        September 25, 2013, 3:12 pm

        Are you religious now Hostage ?
        You are telling Jews where they can and can’t pray?
        Where their holy sites are located ?
        You are a Rabbinical authority of some sort ?
        With a congregation of followers ?

        OlegR doesn’t need facts – he’s got religion and faith! One plus one damned well CAN equal three! Praise Jeezus!

        Too funny…

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        September 25, 2013, 4:21 pm

        Are you religious now Hostage ?

        No, but I’m familiar with the Torah and the fact that even the High Priest is not allowed to come whenever he chooses into the Most Holy Place. Rabbis had no ex-officio function in the operation of the Temple and don’t figure higher-up in the Divine scheme of things than Aaron and his sons did. Rashi noted that “God effectively said to Aaron, “Do not enter the Holy in a prohibited manner, so that you will not die as your sons died”]- [Torath Kohanim 16:3] See Levitcus 16:1-3 Why do you suppose there is an exception for ordinary Jews offering prayers in an unsolicited and strange manner?

        There is ample archeological evidence discovered around the city of Jerusalem to establish that, wherever the Temple stood, the religious Jews eventually took enforcement of the prohibitions into their own hands and simply executed offenders. For example, one of the signs warning Gentiles to stay out of the sacred area of the Temple on penalty of death was found in the walls of a Muslim cemetery near the Via Dolorosa by the 19th century French Orientalist and archaeologist, Clarmont Ganneau.

        In that sense, all non-religious Jews and Gentiles might end up fulfilling the mizvot, including any regarding the death penalty for entering the Holy of Holies in a prohibited manner.

      • talknic
        talknic
        September 25, 2013, 10:11 pm

        OlegR

        “Are you religious now Hostage ?”

        Irrelevant to International law.

        “You are telling Jews where they can and can’t pray?”

        The law tells Israelis whether they can be in non-Israeli territory Israel occupies. The Torah told us if, where and when we could pray at the temple.. However the Torah is quite outdated, obsolete, the temple doesn’t exist.

      • miriam6
        miriam6
        September 26, 2013, 7:18 pm

        [email protected];

        You claimed the following ;

        There is ample archeological evidence discovered around the city of Jerusalem to establish that, wherever the Temple stood, the religious Jews eventually took enforcement of the prohibitions into their own hands and simply executed offenders. For example, one of the signs warning Gentiles to stay out of the sacred area of the Temple on penalty of death was found in the walls of a Muslim cemetery near the Via Dolorosa by the 19th century French Orientalist and archaeologist, Clarmont Ganneau.

        Hostage, where is your evidence for your claims?

        You ought to provide links so others can assess whether or not your claims are correct.

      • just
        just
        September 26, 2013, 7:51 pm

        miriam– please indulge in a “sweet” potato.

        It might help with your memory problem.

      • miriam6
        miriam6
        September 26, 2013, 8:12 pm

        [email protected];

        Has it ever occurred to you that the Muslims ought to meet the Jews half way and acknowledge that the Temple Mount site ( as the site of the Dome of the Rock is called by Jews ) is holy to Jews as well and that Jews should have the right to pray on it too ?

        The Muslim refusal to do so and to allow peaceable Jews to pray on what Jews consider to be their holy place too is half of the problem.

      • miriam6
        miriam6
        September 26, 2013, 8:21 pm

        [email protected];

        “Israel’s chief rabbinate still maintains the Mount is off limits to Jews,” .. after almost 2000 years, why change this now? ..almost 2000 years of practice?..

        One of the implications of your words is to imply that Jews haven’t prayed on the Temple Mount for the 2000 years prior to now ( I mean during the last few years and since the creation of Israel.)

        That is not true.

      • annie
        annie
        September 26, 2013, 8:30 pm

        you must mean one of the implications of Israel’s chief rabbinate’s words miriam. i simply asked why change now. why do you think Israel’s chief rabbinate would imply something you claim to be untrue? i support you confronting him about this alleged implication. let us all know what kind of response you get.

      • annie
        annie
        September 26, 2013, 8:37 pm

        miriam, Has it ever occurred to you that the Jews ought to meet the Palestinians half way and acknowledge that Israel is sitting inside the Palestinian homeland and that Palestinians should have the right to be free there too?

        The Jewish refusal to respect their return and to allow Palestinians to live in their homeland is the problem.

        btw, go to the nyt rudoren link and watch the video, listen to the iman of the mosque. everyone is allowed there, respectfully.

      • miriam6
        miriam6
        September 26, 2013, 8:46 pm

        Fifteen thousand religious Jews visited the Temple Mount in 2012, up from 9,000 in 2011. Ninety percent of religious Jews in Israel think they should have the right to pray on the Temple Mount, and a majority of the Israeli public agrees with them.

        So fifteen thousand Jews visited the Temple Mount in 2012 and six thousand visited the site the year before and no harm was done to the mosque.

        Furthermore why should the extremism of a few Jews necessarily prevent peaceable Jewish worship on the Temple Mount?

        But, as a religious Jew, I would also have seen prayer on the Temple Mount as a generous consolation prize in lieu of the actual Temple. This is why I think it’s unfair to impute the apocalyptic designs of Moshe Feiglin onto the rest of the Temple Mount movement. I understand when religious Jews say they only want to feel a historical “connection,” through prayer, to the site that was once the fulcrum of Judaism.

        http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/25/why-jews-should-be-allowed-to-pray-on-the-temple-mount.html

      • annie
        annie
        September 26, 2013, 9:01 pm

        by ‘now’ i mean recently. of course myself and everyone else is aware since the david project fruitcakes started stepping up their action to judaize all of east jerusalem and find the ‘city’ under the mosque the pressure has massively escalated to impose their hold over the mosque and everything else in jerusalem. we all see the disappearing mosque in replaced in the temple photo a couple years ago. i didn’t mean this nano second miriam, i meant now in terms of a span of time wrt judaism.

        I think it’s unfair to impute the apocalyptic designs of Moshe Feiglin onto the rest of the Temple Mount movement.

        like the warm and cuddly movement of innocent nice nationalists like danny danon? unfair? zionists just want to settle more and more and more of palestine, and it’s only a coincidence this particular time in history they also want to pray at the mosque. they wouldn’t even think of kicking palestinians out, cuz they’re so fair, those zionists. phff.

        you’ve got a lot of nerve miriam, you might want to brush up on eating crow before ever addressing me again: http://mondoweiss.net/2013/09/netanyahu-rouhani-holocaust.html/comment-page-1#comment-597108

        lying snake.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        September 26, 2013, 9:05 pm

        You ought to provide links so others can assess whether or not your claims are correct.

        Here is a link to the original article by M. Charles Clermont-Ganneau that appeared in the Quarterly of the Palestine Exploration Fund for 1871. It didn’t even bother to outline where in Jerusalem the stone inscription had been discovered. Various subsequent accounts described it as a Muslim shrine, mosque, or graveyard. http://archive.org/stream/quarterlystateme03pale#page/n183/mode/2up

        I don’t know of any link to Clermont-Ganneau’s full account that isn’t behind a paywall.

        Here is a webpage that shows one of the stone inscriptions; says that one was discovered in 1871 by Clermont-Ganneau; and provides citations regarding the death penalty during the 2nd Commonwealth era from the works of Josephus, Philo of Alexandria, and the Christian scriptures. http://www.bible-history.com/gentile_court/TEMPLECOURTWarning_Inscription.htm

        Here’s a footnote from The Acts of the Apostles: Being the Greek Text as Revised by Drs. Westcott and Hort Macmillan, 1886 which says that Clermont-Ganneau found the stone built into the walls of a mosque in the Via Dolorosa. http://books.google.com/books?id=25JJAAAAIAAJ&dq=&pg=PA224#v=onepage&q&f=false

        Here is one that says it was found in a graveyard near the Temple mount wall. http://www.biblewalks.com/Sites/TempleMount.html

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        September 26, 2013, 9:18 pm

        One of the implications of your words is to imply that Jews haven’t prayed on the Temple Mount for the 2000 years prior to now ( I mean during the last few years and since the creation of Israel.)

        That is not true.

        One of the implications of your words Miriam is to suggest that persons who prayed on the Temple Mount weren’t committing sacrilege, by violating Jewish religious laws contained in the Torah or violating any secular Jewish Law. Here are some signs posted by the Israeli Rabbinate which explained that entrance to the Temple Mount is forbidden to everyone by Jewish Law or the Torah:
        * http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sign_at_entrance_to_Temple_.jpg
        * http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Hebrew_domeEntrance_sign.jpg

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2013, 8:42 am

        “Furthermore why should the extremism of a few Jews necessarily prevent peaceable Jewish worship on the Temple Mount?”

        Because if the history of the Levant since the early 20C tells us anything, it is that the fanaticism of the zionists will ensure that, in short order, any attempt to appease the “Temple Mount” fanatics will quickly lead to Jewish exclusivity at the site.

        The Jews have the Western Wall. Go pray there.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        September 27, 2013, 8:52 am

        “… Jews should have the right to pray on it too ?”

        There is no such right. The site has been a Muslim holy place for 13 centuries — far longer than it ever served as a site for a Jewish Temple. The Jews have the Western Wall. Go pray there.

        “The Muslim refusal to do so and to allow peaceable Jews to pray on what Jews consider to be their holy place too is half of the problem.”

        The experience of the last 100+ years demonstrates conclusively the wisdom of that refusal. Nowhere have zionist been content with recognizing the primary Muslim rights to a location, subject only to Jewish “sharing.” (And if there is any party with primary rights to al Haram ash Sharif, it is the Muslims, given the fact that it hasn’t been the site of a Jewish temple in 2000 years and the fact that it has been the site of al Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock for the past 13 centuries.) Muslim acquiescence invariably leads to Jewish exclusivity.

      • miriam6
        miriam6
        September 27, 2013, 7:23 pm

        Thanks for the links Hostage

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 25, 2013, 3:30 pm

        Thanks, Hostage for your accurate summary of Jewish law and custom. The drive to pray on the Temple Mount and came out of the ultra-nationalist religious Zionists, not the traditionalist Orthodox. The traditionalists are far more wary of the prohibition that Hostage references and don’t have the nationalist motivation of the religious Zionists.

      • crone
        crone
        September 25, 2013, 6:19 pm

        totally agree with you Hostage…

        Didn’t Bibi use the Temple Mount to provoke Palestinians/Arabs?

        Seems this is more provocation… do Jews want EVERYTHING!!!!!!?????? If so, WHY?

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        September 26, 2013, 2:29 am

        Didn’t Bibi use the Temple Mount to provoke Palestinians/Arabs?

        Netanyahu is a prince of the Revisionist Zionist movement. The Temple Mount has been one of their core political issues ever since the Betar staged the military parade to the Western Wall that triggered the riots in 1929.

      • Xpat
        Xpat
        September 26, 2013, 1:39 pm

        @ Hostage Betar staged the military parade to the Western Wall that triggered the riots in 1929
        Please say more. Never heard that explanation before.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        September 26, 2013, 7:06 pm

        Please say more. Never heard that explanation before.

        There’s not much more to say. The Jewish Agency Council in Zurich had adopted the Wailing Wall as a national symbol and bone of contention. It passed a number of resolutions shreying about the incidents that Zionist organs provoked there from time to time. There was one adopted on the 14th of August the day before the parade to complain about the incidents that had been occurring at the Wall since the last Day of Atonement. There was a staged mass meeting that evening in Tel Aviv at Beit Haam. The Assembly adopted a resolution protesting the so-called violation of Jewish rights at the Wall and thousands marched to the Municipality where they demanded the removal of a list of anti-Semitic officials.

        The next day the youth of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv (Betarim and Maccabi sports club) invited youths from all of the colonies and staged a demonstration in Jerusalem. It featured a parade that started at the Lemel School. It was led by Betar members on horseback under the leadership of Jeremiah Halpern. It passed down the Jaffa Road and into the Old City and on to the Wailing Wall, shouting “the Wall is ours” and singing the Jewish National Anthem. See Aharon Cohen, Israel and the Arab world, Funk and Wagnalls, Page 202; Tom Segev, One Palestine, Complete. Metropolitan Books, 1999, pages 295–313; and the articles on page 1 and 3 of the Palestine Bulletin, Friday August 16th 1929 et seq. at the Historical Jewish Press website. http://www.jpress.org.il/publications/ppost-en.asp

    • annie
      annie
      September 25, 2013, 2:33 pm

      denying Jews a right to pray at the historic Jewish Temple Mount is not a legitimate Arab civil right.

      have you watched the videos? what do you think of the way the state clears the area on the pretense of making way for the settlers/nationalists/religious fanatics? doesn’t it strike you as rather extreme? kind of like a massive military force to close down hebron to make way for jewish fanatics?

      it’s not very benign is it? it’s a rather disingenuous violent militant way of creating the pretense of providing ‘protection’ for jewish extremists. for thousands of years jewish rabbis have said god will build their temple.

      now extremists want to take over where god has yet to build this new jewish temple. someone needs to put a hold on this fanaticism before the region goes up in flames. there shouldn’t be brigades of militants inside the religious compound.

      • OlegR
        OlegR
        September 25, 2013, 2:35 pm

        How about we put a stop to Muslim fanaticism first ?
        Like the lovely practice of throwing stones at Jews praying at the
        Western Wall from the Temple grounds.
        That’s why the police makes these so called “invasions” in the
        holy place.

      • annie
        annie
        September 25, 2013, 3:22 pm

        That’s why the police makes these so called “invasions” in the
        holy place.

        what is this? some kind of justification for collective punishment? certainly you’re not claiming the state is so unhinged they require an army to invade one of the most revered holy places on the planet to go after some stone throwers? if this is the best the israeli government can do to protect the holy land they’re clearly not up to the task.

        you do not really believe anyone watching those videos will see this militant action is the result of some stone throwers do you? come on oleg, we’re not idiots.

      • eljay
        eljay
        September 25, 2013, 3:35 pm

        >> How about we put a stop to Muslim fanaticism first ?

        How about you first put an end to your supremacist “Jewish State’s” 60+ years and still on-going occupation and colonization of Palestine, and honour your obligations under international law?

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        September 25, 2013, 4:09 pm

        “what is this? some kind of justification for collective punishment?”

        That’s exactly what it is. To the likes of Oleg, the Palestinian has no right that need to be respected.

      • OlegR
        OlegR
        September 25, 2013, 5:35 pm

        /certainly you’re not claiming the state is so unhinged they require an army /
        It’s not the army it’s the riot police.
        They are not invading they are putting down a life threatening riots that were started by the worshipers of the Muslim faith in that holy place
        when instead of praying they start throwing rocks at other people
        praying.

        /if this is the best the israeli government can do to protect the holy land they’re clearly not up to the task./

        No, we can restrict access to young hot heads that usually start such ruckuses. that usually works but then you guys scream bloody murder.

        Another great way would be close the whole place down and allow each religious group to attend at a different day.
        Again i don’t think that would well accepted here.

        /you do not really believe anyone watching those videos will see this militant action is the result of some stone throwers do you/

        They are edited to show only the endgame when police are using force and not the instigation of violence .

        /we’re not idiots./
        You are most certainly not idiots that would have been forgivable.

      • OlegR
        OlegR
        September 25, 2013, 5:37 pm

        Eljay , we thought about your proposal and the answer is , no.

      • annie
        annie
        September 25, 2013, 6:13 pm

        It’s not the army it’s the riot police.
        They are not invading they are putting down a life threatening riots

        that is not supported by the video footage. even if there had been a couple rock throwers, muslim authorities in charge of the mosque could have dealt with the situation more appropriately and expediently.

        that were started by the worshipers of the Muslim faith

        i suggest you open this link: silwanic.net/?p=42292

        iow, if authorities want a pretext to invade the mosque, or make arrests or harass people, they can make that happen. go up and watch the last video. these people are holding a peaceful protest.

      • eljay
        eljay
        September 25, 2013, 6:24 pm

        >> Eljay , we thought about your proposal and the answer is , no.

        Imagine that.

      • crone
        crone
        September 25, 2013, 6:25 pm

        If the Jews are going to a ‘holy place’ – why is there so much violence? Where is the love/compassion for others? Isn’t there room for everyone to pray? (That’s a rhetorical question of course.)

        It’s not about prayer or holiness… it’s about territory, isn’t it? How do you sleep nights?

      • talknic
        talknic
        September 25, 2013, 9:49 pm

        OlegR “They are not invading”

        Strange, the UNSC says Israel is an invader. UNSC res 252 and EIGHT reminders all cite to the Laws, UN Charter and Conventions Israel is obliged to adhere to.

      • talknic
        talknic
        September 25, 2013, 10:01 pm

        OlegR “How about we put a stop to Muslim fanaticism first ?”

        It’s not fanaticism to throw stones at occupiers. It IS fanaticism for a Government to encourage its civilians to be in occupied territories against GC IV adopted to protect them from the likely violent consequences of occupying non-Israeli territory and its people. It is fanaticism for the Israeli Government to illegally sell non-Israeli land in illegally acquired territories to Israeli civilians

        “Like the lovely practice of throwing stones at Jews praying at the
        Western Wall …”

        They’re Israelis. Israel is the Occupying Power.

      • Cliff
        Cliff
        September 26, 2013, 7:22 pm

        OlegR

        Get off of Palestinian land you thief. That’s what should be done first.

    • talknic
      talknic
      September 25, 2013, 2:55 pm

      Mike_Konrad “Whatever one feels about the validity of the Southern (Al-Aqsa) Mosque, Jews should be allowed to pray on the Temple Mount”

      Lemme see now. These Jews would be Israeli citizens, yes? Israel is the Occupying Power ( UNSC res 476 ) Ever dared to read it?

      Then there’s a question about the validity of a house of worship that actually does exist. Meanwhile there is little evidence and a lot of questions as to whether a Jewish house of worship ever actually stood on the same site.

      “The fight for Arab civil rights should be focused on appropriate concerns like getting building permits and stopping housing demolitions”

      Oh my, your concern is so touchingly transparent. Why should they be required to get building permits from a state that has no civil jurisdiction in “territories occupied” (UNSC res 476 )

      “but denying Jews a right to pray at the historic Jewish Temple Mount is not a legitimate Arab civil right”

      In fact it is, under International Law. Israeli civilians Jewish and non, have no right to be in “territories occupied” (UNSC res 476 )

      Furthermore Israeli basic law (1948 & still current) forbids Israeli citizens and residents, Arab and/or Jewish, from entering the territory of a hostile entity. Jerusalem is territory of a hostile entity ( UNSC Res 476 )

      “Forbidding Jews to pray at the site is bogus”

      The Occupying Power allowing Israelis into “territories occupied” is bogus. GC IV is meant to protect ALL civilians including those of the Occupying Power from the possible violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory.

      What kind of a government encourages its citizens to break a convention adopted to protect them? Furthermore, what kind of government sells its citizens land that simply does not belong to the state?

  3. OlegR
    OlegR
    September 25, 2013, 2:31 pm

    Temple Mount is called that because it was sacred to Jews well before Muhammad was ever born.
    Or is it not worth mentioning?

    • eljay
      eljay
      September 25, 2013, 2:56 pm

      >> Temple Mount is called that because it was sacred to Jews well before Muhammad was ever born.

      Sacred, holy, gods, religions, prayer, worship and sacrifice were and remain stupid – and dangerous – human creations.

      Tear down the Mount and the Mosque and put a nice park – accessible to all people of the world – in its place in the autonomous city-state of Jerusalem.

      Stroll through the park and enjoy the scenery and the greenery. Amen. :-)

      • OlegR
        OlegR
        September 25, 2013, 5:39 pm

        I don’t think all those Muslims will take it well.
        But don’t misunderstand i am all for dereligionizing Jerusalem.
        Not sure how to do it without provoking massive conflict.
        Any practical ideas?

      • eljay
        eljay
        September 25, 2013, 6:25 pm

        >> I don’t think all those Muslims will take it well.

        I don’t doubt it. But I don’t think all those Jews will take it too well, either.

        >> But don’t misunderstand i am all for dereligionizing Jerusalem.

        And making it an autonomous city-state. You left out that part.

    • talknic
      talknic
      September 25, 2013, 3:02 pm

      OlegR “Temple Mount is called that because it was sacred to Jews well before Muhammad was ever born.
      Or is it not worth mentioning?”

      Historically interesting but irrelevant as of the moment Israel was declared. It doesn’t change the actual legal status of Israel’s sovereign extent as recognized under International Law http://pages.citebite.com/o1y0c4n1i3far & http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf and Israel’s illegal activities “outside the State of Israel” http://pages.citebite.com/x1r0b4d1y6mkv

      Israel has never legally acquired any territories since being “proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947”

      • Kathleen
        Kathleen
        September 26, 2013, 8:07 pm

        Great piece Annie. Incredible information. So well put together “clearing the way” for Jews to worship at the Al Aqsa mosque. Clearly this is not just provocation but seriouslyviolent provocation. Hoping to provoke violence by being violent.

        That last clip where the two smug, arrogant racist pricks push that man smoking a cigarette for no reason (23). Then at 1:53 another group of arrogant racist Israeli soldiers harass that man, start pushing him. Would sure like to find out what happened to that guy but the racist Israeli pricks broke the reporters cameras. Who wouldn’t want to have revenge on this group of Israeli gangsters.

        And then the massive double standard Israeli soldiers “clearing the way” violently allowing Jewish extremist to worship at the Al Aqsa mosque and not “clearing the way” for Palestinian Christians to worship at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Christian Peace Maker team member Art Gish who spent 12 or so winters living with the Palestinians in and around Hebron often talked about witnessing the most racist behavior and language coming out of Israeli soldiers. I believed him. But when you see live clips you get it even more. Just more of the Israeli racist double standards that permeate their apartheid state.

        And the international community does what? Now if this were taking place anywhere else the so called liberal MsNBC talking heads like Maddow would be all over it. But hey its racist Israeli’s practicing their bigotry and they are “chosen” and they are allowed to get away with their racist crimes.

        And Jerusalem does not look like a holy city it looks like a war zone. So holy

    • annie
      annie
      September 25, 2013, 4:10 pm

      Or is it not worth mentioning?

      you may notice i didn’t delve into the history in the article, albeit both names, ‘noble sanctuary’ as well as ‘temple mount’ speak to the importance of the location for both religions.

      what you suggest in your statement is that ‘jews got their first’ takes some kind of historical precedence over other considerations, and it doesn’t. then there’s those with future claims about what will happen later, which i didn’t get into in the article either. then there’s the considerations of people who do not believe in the claim, which i didn’t get into either. then there’s the considerations of who (vast majority) has worshiped there for the vast majority of history, which i didn’t cover either. the article mainly addresses what’s happening there now.

      but rudoren covers some historical ground in her article, including the opinion of israel’s chief rabbi as well as linking to one of the fanatical settler sites, and i also linked to the temple institute which thoroughly covers jewish biblical claims.

      basically, it’s not a historical article. and had i delved into the historical, it would have made the article more inflammatory, not less. but feel free to discuss it in the comments. clearly, jews are not unified on worship in the sanctuary.

      by all means, if you think deferring to a bunch of radical religious fanatics in order to speed up god’s plan for jews to worship there, at the expense of muslims, at this time, make your case. you never know, we might very well have a representative of someone who sees these kinds of violations on the holy places in the holy city of jerusalem, violations that could very well set the entire middle east up in flames, as justified. right here in our very comment section.

      • OlegR
        OlegR
        September 25, 2013, 5:42 pm

        So how did is it that you side with one kind of religious zealots
        but you won’t side with the other kind.
        Or is it just the numbers of those zealots that matter ?

      • annie
        annie
        September 25, 2013, 5:59 pm

        hmm..i don’t think all religious people are zealots. i think there are normal religious practices and worship for jews, christians and muslims.

        but i am not a religious person. however i do like visiting religious places and i do so respectfully.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      September 25, 2013, 4:29 pm

      “Temple Mount is called that because it was sacred to Jews well before Muhammad was ever born.”
      “Or is it not worth mentioning?”

      So? It was a pile of rubble for half of a millenium before Muhammad was born, too. Further, should it also be worth mentioning that that al Aqsa has been there for 1300 years, longer than the time either of the two Jewish temples stood there (longer than both together, in fact, even if one credits the dodgy and most likely mythic history in the Old Testament)??

    • SQ Debris
      SQ Debris
      September 28, 2013, 2:05 pm

      It is the Haram El Sharif, the Noble Sanctuary. The incitement documented in the videos goes hand in hand with the murders of Palestinians in Qalandia and Jenin. There’s this horrible possibility of Palestinians being seen as wanting peace, sitting down to negotiations even as their pockets are being publicly picked. Something has to be done! Piss off the Palestinians a little more and see if they’ll provide a pretext for more draconian “security measures.”

  4. Hostage
    Hostage
    September 25, 2013, 2:57 pm

    Temple Mount is called that because it was sacred to Jews well before Muhammad was ever born. Or is it not worth mentioning?

    Sure, so long as you admit that the Jews don’t know where the original sites of their Temples are located today and are simply guessing about the subject.

    We know that the Madaba map didn’t show the Western Wall and that coins discovered underneath it by the Israeli Antiquities Authority were minted at least 20 years after Herod’s death.
    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Madaba.html
    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/150027#.UhvHerodB33_OCjc

    Some experts have claimed that the Jews are praying in front of a pretty typical example of a Byzantine wall.

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      September 25, 2013, 3:37 pm

      For all that is happening I don’t think that any serious attempt at a restoration of the Temple cult will be made for many years yet. That’s why ‘only one organisation’ is preparing for it. In the long run it may be different, but animal sacrifices and the election of a High Priest would present enormous problems which I don’t believe anyone is ready to face. The very long run is a different matter.
      Ascription of sacredness to a site or a thing is up to the ascriber, using whatever criteria seem good. Still, I think that on balance, especially considering Josephus’ evidence, it’s very unlikely that the Western Wall is part of a pre-70 edifice and that it was unlikely even before the discovery of those coins.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        September 25, 2013, 5:01 pm

        Still, I think that on balance, especially considering Josephus’ evidence, it’s very unlikely that the Western Wall is part of a pre-70 edifice and that it was unlikely even before the discovery of those coins.

        I tend to agree.

  5. Kate
    Kate
    September 25, 2013, 4:09 pm

    As Dorothy Naor of New Profile has said, Israel in acting like this on the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount is “playing with fire.” Is it worth the risk? One sometimes wonders if some in the Israeli government actually want a conflagration.

  6. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870
    September 25, 2013, 5:11 pm

    RE: “Nowhere does the Times article state that these lawmakers are extremists. Take Deputy Knesset Speaker Moshe Feiglin. He is a well-known religious fanatic and supporter of Rabbi Meir Kahane, and was part of a group of settlers that stormed the mosque on Monday, under the protection of Israeli Police.” ~ Annie Robbins

    FROM WIKIPEDIA [Moshe Feiglin]:

    [EXCERPTS] Moshe Zalman Feiglin (Hebrew משה פייגלין, born 1962) is an Israeli politician, head of the Manhigut Yehudit (Jewish Leadership) faction of the Likud party in Israel. Widely quoted in Israeli media, Feiglin is considered a political hardliner with a unique political perspective that emphasizes policies that reflect Israel’s Jewish identity.
    In 1993, Moshe Feiglin co-founded the Zo Artzeinu (“This [is] our Land/Country”) movement with Shmuel Sackett to protest the Oslo Accords. On August 8, 1995, 80 intersections throughout the country were blocked in a massive act of civil disobedience against the Oslo process. As a result of his activities, Feiglin was sentenced to six months in prison in 1997 for sedition against the state by Israel’s Supreme Court. The sentence was later commuted to community service.[1] . . .
    . . . Several left-wing commentators have depicted Feiglin as fascist,[8][9][10] but for his part, Feiglin rejects this label, claiming that he is fighting fascism [so-called Liberal Fascism no doubt ~ J.L.D.] himself.[11][12][13][14]
    . . . In an article in Ha’aretz, Yossi Sarid quoted Feiglin, in the context of demonstrations against the democratically chosen Oslo accords, as saying, “Hitler was an unparalleled military genius. Nazism promoted Germany from a low to a fantastic physical and ideological status. The ragged, trashy youth body turned into a neat and orderly part of society and Germany received an exemplary regime, a proper justice system and public order. Hitler savored good music. He would paint. This was no bunch of thugs. They merely used thugs and homosexuals.” Feiglin clarified his position to the Maariv newspaper that just because he considers Hitler a military genius this does not mean he admires him.[1] In an interview on Israeli television Feiglin accused Sarid and other left-wing journalists of a smear campaign against him by quoting him out of context. He explained his point as saying that just because Germany was a democracy does not give legitimacy to what Hitler had done.[30]
    Feiglin is banned from entering the United Kingdom due to a decision by Home Secretary Jacqui Smith, made public in March 2008, excluding Feiglin on the grounds that his presence in the country “would not be conducive to the public good.”[31] A letter to Feiglin from the Home Office said that Smith based her decision on an assessment that his activities “foment or justify terrorist violence in furtherance of particular beliefs; seek to provoke others to terrorist acts; foment other serious criminal activity or seek to provoke others to serious criminal acts and foster hatred which might lead to inter-community violence in the UK.”[32][33] Feiglin responded, “Seeing that renowned terrorists like Hizbullah member Ibrahim Mousawi are welcomed in your country in open arms, I understand that your policy is aimed at encouraging and supporting terror.[34] . . .

    SOURCE – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moshe_Feiglin

    • DICKERSON3870
      DICKERSON3870
      September 25, 2013, 5:14 pm

      P.S. ALSO SEE: “Feiglin New Rightist Power Behind Likud Throne”, by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 12/27/08

      [EXCERPTS] Gershom Gorenberg has written a stunner of a political appraisal of the role Moshe Feiglin and his far-right allies will play in Likud before and especially after the next national election. Feiglin is an Orthodox extremist settler leader who toiled in the political trenches of far-right splinter parties until he cottoned on to an idea David Duke had some time ago. Instead of laboring in political obscurity, take over the major party nearest to your ideology. In this case it was Likud.
      In the last leadership primary [back in 2008], Feiglin (remember again that his views are somewhat akin to Duke’s in an Israeli context) garnered 25% of the vote to embarrass Netanyahu deeply. In the most recent primary, Feiglin and his allies chipped away further at the party leader: not only did Feiglin place 20th on the list which would’ve made him a certain MK winner (party leaders later used technicalities to move him to 36th), but many of his ideological soulmates placed high in the list as well. Gorenberg argues that no matter how centrist Netanyahu tries to paint the party, the newly empowered extremists will weigh him down like an albatross. The Israeli journalist speculates that even IF (a big “if”) Netanyahu would want to engage in territorial compromise with the Palestinians after becoming prime minister, the rump right wing caucus could muster the support to nix such an initiative or anything that even smacks of craven capitulation to the enemy.
      Here are some of the more shocking beliefs that Feiglin holds:

      On the Jewish Leadership website, [he] proposes principles for a constitution for Israel. It would include a high rabbinic court, chosen only by clergy, that would overturn any legislation it saw as contradicting Jewish religious law. A newly established senate, with a guaranteed Jewish majority of over 80 percent, would have to consult the rabbinic court on all national issues. Israel would lay claim not only to the West Bank and Gaza, but also to all of Jordan.
      . . . He proposes . . . holding a ceremony at every army base in which all non-lethal weaponry would be destroyed. Faced with Palestinian demonstrators, soldiers could only shoot to kill. . . Another Feiglin tract contrasts parliamentary democracy with an “authentic Jewish regime” that would express the “organic unity of the Nation of Israel.” Put simply, Feiglin’s ideology is the meeting point of fundamentalism and fascism.

      Gorenberg concludes his essay with this warning about the false ‘branding’ of Likud under Netanyahu’s leadership:

      The campaign packaging for the Likud will show Netanyahu’s face. In his modulated MBA voice, he’ll try to sell the Likud to voters as a pragmatic conservative party, willing to make peace if only the Palestinians agree to its conditions. Inside the package, however, is a party in thrall to a lean and hungry man offering extremist leadership for Israel. . .

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2008/12/27/feiglin-new-rightist-power-behind-likud-throne/

      P.S. AND SEE THESE TWO:

      “Bogie Yaalon’s Excellent Adventure with Feiglin, Kahane Kids”, by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 8/17/09
      LINK – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2009/08/17/bogie-yaalons-excellent-adventure-with-feiglin-and-the-kahane-kids/

      “Yaalon Looks to Fascist Right for Support in Likud Leadership Struggle”, by Richard Silverstein, Tikun Olam, 8/20/09
      LINK – http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2009/08/20/yaalon-looks-to-fascist-right-for-support-in-likud-leadership-struggle/

  7. dbroncos
    dbroncos
    September 25, 2013, 8:30 pm

    Annie,

    In the same article Rudoren features a Russian Jew who visits the Al Aqsa plaza every day and prays in silence. Rudoren emphasizes his claim that his secret, silent prayers in the plaza are just like the secret prayers he said in the repressive USSR, suggesting that in the safe haven of Israel Jews should be free to pray wherever they want. Rudoren doesn’t imagine that this Jewish invasion is a provocation just as Sharon’s visit was in 2000. She also doesn’t ask what would happen if a large group of Palestinian “moderates” showed up at the wailing wall to excercise their right to pray wherever they want.

    • annie
      annie
      September 26, 2013, 1:18 am

      dbroncos, thanks for bringing that up. i actually had a few quotes from him in the first draft but it was too long, got cut. in the times video too, mentions leningrad. something about him ‘mastering’ praying without moving his lips, as if that takes decades of practice. am i missing something?

    • Xpat
      Xpat
      September 26, 2013, 1:46 pm

      Ok, so this evidences the well-documented, general Jewish focus of the NYT. Aside from that, there is no doubt at all what she thinks. By just inserting “rebuilding the temple” as she does twice in that concluding paragraph with the Russian Jew, she makes it abundantly clear that she agrees with our own response: this guy is nutso.
      (I also know one of the contributing writers and can assure you that this writer is no fan at all of this insanity.)

      • annie
        annie
        September 26, 2013, 2:17 pm

        elliot, i think she did a commendable job of covering the fanatics. especially on the second page, and perhaps i should have stated that. also, that she wrote about it at all, that is important.

        aside from ‘what she thinks’ can we both at least agree this is a news report intending to inform? she does a good job of explaining why this site is important to jews, history and stuff like that.

        but here’s is my main beef. she says there’s been a ‘spate of stone throwing’ and she says “thousands of Arab citizens of Israel rallied in the north, warning that Al Aksa is in danger. ” but where in the article is there any hint about the actions taken, as referenced in the videos, that reasonable people might think are associated with “thousands of Arab citizens” rallying?

        she tells us:

        those identified by the police as Jews are separated, escorted by police officers and admonished not to dance, sing, bow down or even move their lips in prayer.

        is that a decent description of those videos? at the time she wrote the article, it had been two weeks since the events in those videos, they were all over youtube, it definitely was not a secret. it happened twice over the holiday, the 4th and the 6th.

        where is the context in the story? of what appear to be hundreds security guard, huge noises, explosions, tear gas, the clearing of the area? where? is it not important how the state is dealing with this issue? why isn’t it included in the article? if one reads that article, one might understand the history, but as far as what is going on now, currently, and why palestinians are so alarmed, the context is not there.

        there is literally no mention of what happened on rosh hashanah. this is the opening:

        Small groups of Jews are increasingly ascending the Temple Mount in Jerusalem’s Old City, a sacred site controlled for centuries by Muslims, who see the visits as a provocation that could undermine the fragile peace talks started this summer.

        Muslims see the visits as a provocation. and what else do Muslims see? how possible is it she could have researched this story and not heard about what we’re seeing in these videos from 2 wks prior? “Jews are separated, escorted by police officers and admonished not to dance, sing, bow down or even move their lips in prayer. ”

        escorted? i’ll say. there’s a vital part missing from this story, and that is the actions of the state. who else see this as provocations? anyone? this is absolutely provocative. had a riot broken out as a result of these actions how could anyone be surprised. how is storming the mosque with these explosions not provocation. a reasonable person might see these actions as provocative, not just muslims.

        if you’re going to write a story on what’s happening at the mosque, it makes sense to include a realistic description of current events. imho, the absence is glaring.

  8. just
    just
    September 26, 2013, 12:50 am

    Why are they trying to walk in Sharon’s IOF footsteps………?

    Why?

    Are oppression, occupation, disrespect, and provocation all that they know?

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