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Israel tries to blame killings on Palestinians as int’l outrage builds

Israel/Palestine
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Michael Oren on Wolf Blitzer's CNN show yesterday, from Gus's twitter feed

Michael Oren on Wolf Blitzer’s CNN show yesterday, from Gus’s twitter feed

Here’s a wrapup of the coverage of the killings last Thursday of two Palestinian youths during a Nakba Day demonstration in Beitunia in the West Bank. The Israeli government is trying to spin the story to suggest that Palestinians fired the shots, and not Israeli soldiers– in a throwback to the Mohammed al-Durrah spin strategy in the killing of a boy in Gaza in 2000.

Human rights advocates are pushing back, questioning the Israeli government’s ability to conduct an honest investigation.

“The Israeli military’s internal investigations have a shameful record for impunity, and its claim that troops didn’t fire live ammunition on May 15 is contradicted by witness statements, medical records, videos and other evidence,” says Sarah Leah Whitson of Human Rights Watch, in a statement from the Institute for Middle East Understanding. “The military should be putting its efforts into collecting that evidence, not spinning the story.”

Now let’s turn to the Israeli efforts. The army says a “forgery” is likely in the video that appears to show the Palestinians youths killed by shots from the Israeli side. The Israeli investigators say they believe soldiers who said they only fired rubber bullets. Haaretz’s report:

Israeli military investigators said, however, the shots may have been fired by the Palestinian side, rather than by Israeli troops, and senior Israeli officials said a video of the shootings that has that sparked an outcry was likely forged….

Adding to the video and to the testimony by Palestinians, a medical report by Dr. Salim Saliba, the head of Ramallah Hospital’s trauma department, says both boys were killed by live bullets that entered through their chests….

Border Patrol troops maintain that no live bullets were used to disperse the violent protests. According to what turned up in the military investigation, only crowd dispersing ammunition including rubber bullets was used by Israeli troops.

Israeli military investigators are examining the possibility that the bullets which killed the boys were fired from the Palestinian side, rather than the IDF’s side. Suspicions that soldiers involved in the event were lying when they said no live bullets were fired were examined, and discarded, investigators have said.

The possibility that the bullets were fired from the Palestinian side is based, upon other things, on the angle of the fall of one of the boys.

Former Israeli ambassador Michael Oren sought to explain away the shootings, seemingly suggesting they had been staged, in an interview with Wolf Blitzer on CNN yesterday, I am told. “This is getting ugly,” my friend says. “Oren pointed to other cases he indicated were made up or questionable in some way such as the case of Muhammad Al-Durrah and the Gaza beach explosion.”  When that video becomes available I’ll update and provide Oren’s precise wording.

Here’s another report on that exchange:

More:

And more:

The man who released the video (above) is pushing back against the Israeli line. Rifat Kassis, the executive director of Defence for Children International – Palestine, gave out this statement to the Institute for Middle East Understanding:

“Defense for Children International Palestine obtained over six hours of security video footage that captured the shootings of two Palestinian teens on May 15, 2014. The video published on YouTube highlights the unlawful killings that occurred on that day, however, the full unedited footage has been shared with a number of news agencies, and others, and they have verified the video as accurately portraying events on that day. “CNN has released footage that captures an Israeli soldier firing at the same moment Nadeem [Nadim] Nawara, 17, was fatally shot in Beitunia, which corroborates the incident captured by the CCTV footage. Several eyewitnesses, including journalists, at the scene confirmed that the video released by DCI-Palestine was authentic. “Rather than cast doubt on the video or lay blame on unknown Palestinian gunmen, Israeli authorities should conduct an impartial and transparent investigation into the killings that occurred on May 15 and hold the perpetrators accountable.

Wolf Blitzer tweeted the excellent report by Ivan Watson on the shootings, saying it’s “disturbing.” That report offers evidence that an Israeli soldier fired a fatal shot and that the ammunition was live fire that wound up in the victim’s backpack after passing through his body. Over at the State Department, spokesperson Jen Psaki said yesterday that she misstated the place of the shootings, when she said Wednesday that they were on Israel’s “soil.”

I would state it differently if I were to state it again today. As we know, the events took place in the West Bank. What I was meaning to convey, which I did several times, is that naturally Israeli – Israel has the lead in any investigation.

Now here’s the latest from Prime Minister Netanyahu’s twitter feed, lest anyone miss the real story:


Here are more statements of international outrage gathered by the Institute for Middle East Understanding:

From Jafar Nowarah, paternal uncle of one of the victims, 17-year-old Nadim Nawara, and longtime resident of Columbus, Ohio:

“I used to see Nadim about every 18 months from when he was born until five years go when he turned 13. He was a basketball fanatic like me, except that he loved the Bulls and I love the Lakers. I bought a Bulls hat that I was planning to give to him when I go to Palestine next month.

“It’s still hard for me to believe that I’ll never see him again. He was a happy kid. He was always smiling. I never thought he’d die this way. The international community must insist that those responsible for pulling the trigger be brought to justice. Too many Palestinian kids die for no reason. This has to stop.”

More from Kassis:

“Mohammad Azzeh, the third teen shot with live ammunition on May 15, told DCI-Palestine in a sworn affidavit that he recalls Israeli soldiers filming or photographing the clashes. Israeli forces should release any footage they may have captured to the public as part of an impartial and transparent investigation into the killings.

“Regardless of whether Israeli forces used live ammunition or so-called non-lethal crowd dispersal weapons, the result remains the same: two dead teenagers.

“If live ammunition was not used, it would seem that Israel’s non-lethal weapons have the same net effect of seriously injuring or killing the targeted victims.”

From Sarah Leah Whitson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch:

“The Israeli military’s internal investigations have a shameful record for impunity, and its claim that troops didn’t fire live ammunition on May 15 is contradicted by witness statements, medical records, videos and other evidence. The military should be putting its efforts into collecting that evidence, not spinning the story. If Israel wants to be taken seriously let’s see them conduct a real investigation and hand down more than slaps on wrists for wrongdoers.”

From Edith Garwood, Country Specialist for Israel, the Occupied Palestinian Territories and the Palestinian Authority, Amnesty International USA:

“Palestinian children have the right to live free of Israeli military violence. Unfortunately, Amnesty International has documented many incidences of excessive use of force by Israeli soldiers in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. These include apparent willful killings, which would amount to war crimes. It is time for the Israeli military to stop shielding its troops from accountability for their violence against unarmed civilians.”

Thanks to Ilene Cohen.

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About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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52 Responses

  1. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    May 23, 2014, 1:03 pm

    Netanyahu: “93% of Palestinian adults hold Antisemitic views. This is a direct result of the Palestinian Authority’s incitement. ”

    This is disgusting. That result, even it were believable, exists because criminals like Netanyahu have been murdering them, murdering their children in cold blood, stealing their land and property and oppressing them in a vile, racist regime and have for three generations, to build this so-called “Jewish state.”

    Insane.

    • just
      just
      May 23, 2014, 1:54 pm

      That dog don’t hunt anymore…..except among the zionists and their adherents.

      If his lips are moving, he’s lying. If he’s tweeting, same thing. The only ‘incitement’ is from Israel.

    • May 23, 2014, 2:06 pm

      i like the spider-very artistically descriptive.
      israel needs to be internationally surveilled. its like they have a death wish for it.
      one israeli minister said neti is psychotic. with that mindset in place, and the continuing, and in fact accellerating pace of the criminal annexation of palestinian land which is so arrogant and “in your face” its like they’re challenging the world to do somethin about it, maybe we will!

    • lysias
      lysias
      May 23, 2014, 4:26 pm

      I wonder what percentage of the Irish population had anti-British views in 1921. Or of the population of India in 1946. Or of the population of what became the United States in 1781.

    • Basilio
      Basilio
      May 24, 2014, 6:42 am

      If we polled Polish people under German occupation during WWII, I wonder what kind of results we would have gotten? When whites enslaved black people, imagine if people saw white hating in the polls and pointed it to say black people are hateful. Imagine if Jews suffering under the Shoah had none of them having hateful feelings towards Germans? The Palestinians only know Jews who oppress them. They don’t know much about people like Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein. They see their poverty and oppression. It’s not Christian Greeks oppressing them. It’s not German Christians, it’s Israeli Jews, unfortunately. The source of the anti-Semitism in this case is people like Netanyahu. How dare they talk about racism when they’re pursuing such racist policies. How many thousands of homes have they destroyed? It’s like the KKK pointing at other people being racist. It’s comical and ridiculous.

    • Balfour
      Balfour
      May 24, 2014, 7:35 am

      “Netanyahu: “93% of Palestinian adults hold Antisemitic views. This is a direct result of the Palestinian Authority’s incitement. ”

      I’m sure the Jews forced to live in the Warsaw Ghetto also held negative views of the German People, no doubt incited by the German-approved Judenrat.

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        May 25, 2014, 10:55 am

        How “anti-semitic” does Nadeem’s dad sound?:

        “Sitting at his home in a well-to-do neighbourhood of Ramallah on the West Bank, Nawara, 42, speculates that the soldier who shot his son might not be “able to sleep or comprehend what he has done”.

        He adds that, like his own son, the soldier who killed him was probably a boy himself, perhaps not much more than 19. “I [want to] believe that he wanted to pay his respects and offer his condolences and ask forgiveness for what he’d done,” he says.

        Nawara suggests that he could forgive this other boy because the true culprit is the officer who gave the order for Nadeem to be killed, who “should have known better”.”

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/25/palestinian-territories-ramallah-nadeem-suwara

  2. lyn117
    lyn117
    May 23, 2014, 1:03 pm

    “Border Patrol troops maintain that no live bullets were used to disperse the violent protests. ”

    For sure, the live bullets were used when there weren’t violent protests. Technically, if the Border Patrol troops maintained this, they could well be telling the truth.

  3. just
    just
    May 23, 2014, 1:04 pm

    Stellar compilation. Thanks, Phil.

    I just wish I would see some/any outrage here in the US/ MSM…..

    • Kathleen
      Kathleen
      May 23, 2014, 11:51 pm

      “Stellar” indeed. MW keeps rocking the boat. The fact that this very sad story about two more Palestinian teens being killed (sounds like by Israeli soldiers again) was on CNN is a seismic shift

  4. amigo
    amigo
    May 23, 2014, 1:26 pm

    Don,t you get it??.

    Even though the footage shows that the Soldier fired his live round at exactly the same time other footage showed the teen falling the Israelis are suggesting that Palestinians picked that millisecond to shoot the teen.

    I think the International community has more than enough of Israel,s lies and deceit.

    • Qualtrough
      Qualtrough
      May 24, 2014, 2:37 am

      Amigo–even further absurd, if that were possible, is believing that Palestinian sharpshooters used their expert skills to pick off these two kids rather than shoot the Israeli soldiers. Of course that totally fits in with the Zionist narrative of Palestinians as savages who don’t care about their children. This is real desperation, they are losing control of the story very fast now.

    • SQ Debris
      SQ Debris
      May 24, 2014, 4:49 pm

      It’s 3D zionism: denial, deceit, and distortion.

  5. Kay24
    Kay24
    May 23, 2014, 1:37 pm

    Most probably ex AIPAC publication reporter, Blitzer, allowed Oren to get away with the not so subtle blame on the “mean” Palestinians, and whining about how victimized Israelis are. I am sick of seeing this happen over and over again, in our media.
    The narrative is always one sided, and that is the bad side.
    I think this time the world (not the US of course) will know who the biggest murderers and liars are. It is typical of Israel to commit atrocities, and then lie like criminals do. Here they are caught on video, by at least a couple of independent sources, for all the world to see, and it looks really bad for them, yet the feeble
    attempts to cast doubt on the videos, make the victims look like the perpetrators,
    and deny, deny, deny, may work in the US, but the rest of the world, especially all the human rights agencies, know who the criminals are, and it will not take much to investigate this vicious and senseless killing, the evidence will clear it all.
    This is why the world dislikes Israel, and not for any other reasons they may like to claim. It is for this endless brutal occupation, the consistent crimes against the occupied, violations, and lies.

    • chet
      chet
      May 23, 2014, 1:45 pm

      Kay24 — “… deny, deny, deny, may work in the US,”

      That it works in the US is all Israel cares about.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        May 23, 2014, 2:35 pm

        Well, I agree that it is mostly the US, the biggest welfare queen cannot survive without US aid, weapons, and support, however, I think the EU is quite important too. The recent boycotting of products from the illegal settlements, have resulted in Israel whining, and trying to placate many EU countries. Israel cannot exist without the help they keep getting from nations still feeling guilty about the past (and they are constantly reminded about that past).

      • just
        just
        May 23, 2014, 2:38 pm

        Agreed.

        What’s important now is to remind people of the present, and that is why I am so grateful for the genius here at mondoweiss. There’s plenty of current guilt/blame wrt the Palestinians to go around.

      • lysias
        lysias
        May 23, 2014, 4:29 pm

        The U.S. is failing more and more visibly on the international stage. Soon Israel may have to care about other countries.

  6. seafoid
    seafoid
    May 23, 2014, 1:37 pm

    The usual bot media job.
    Except they never investigate anything, they lie regularly and they shoot to kill

    I wonder how many journos believe them this time.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/22/footage-palestinian-boys-shot-genuine-btselem
    “Commenting on efforts to cast doubt on accounts of the affair in +972 online magazine, Dahlia Scheindlin, a public opinion analyst in Tel Aviv, attempted to explain recent comments: “Public figures are well aware that the postmodern mindset makes it hard to pin down facts.
    “Throwing out theories, no matter how wild, raises doubts even if far-fetched. Using words inaccurately, or not admitting to one’s actions is another form. Accusing the other side of full-out conspiracy and elaborate fabrications is another.”

    And accusing Israel of murdering these 2 dead Palestinian teenagers is obviously so reminiscent of the run up to the Shoah.

    • piotr
      piotr
      May 23, 2014, 3:53 pm

      One should make a little effort to let the other side exemplify Goodwin law. Perhaps now that Netanyahu did it, it make be OK, but here it suffices to note that IDF spokescreature, true to their customs, cheerfully ignore all the fact and spew their boilerplate version. The use of a sniper rifle was filmed by CNN.

  7. Nevada Ned
    Nevada Ned
    May 23, 2014, 1:51 pm

    So-called rubber bullets are in fact made of steel, and are coated with rubber. At close range, these bullets can kill or render the victim brain-dead.

    Mondoweiss readers already know this, of course.

    • lysias
      lysias
      May 23, 2014, 4:30 pm

      If there was a bullet hole in the backpack of one of the victims, I don’t think a rubber bullet — or even a steel bullet with a rubber coating — would have done that.

  8. seafoid
    seafoid
    May 23, 2014, 2:00 pm

    Real hardcore WTF

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.592469#
    “Jill Abramson’s recent dismissal from the New York Times has sparked criticism of the newspaper’s treatment of females. However, pro-Israel supporters have seen the former executive editor’s ouster as an opportunity to criticize the Grey Lady’s Israel coverage.

    The Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) sponsored a giant sign across the street from the Times’s newsroom, reading “Unfair to Jill Abramson? Definitely unfair to Israel.”

    The committee, which seeks to “promoting accurate and balanced coverage of Israel and the Middle East,” has repeatedly attempted to shed light on the paper’s purported anti-Israel bias. “

    • amigo
      amigo
      May 23, 2014, 2:08 pm

      “Unfair to Jill Abramson? Definitely unfair to Israel.” CAMERA

      FFS when will the average Joe soap American get weary of this self serving tiresome and tedious whinging from Israel and it,s apologists.

      When will they stand up and start telling these traitors and Israel firsters to get the hell out of the US and stay out.

    • Qualtrough
      Qualtrough
      May 24, 2014, 2:44 am

      The last thing CAMERA does is promote accurate and balanced coverage of Israel and the Middle East. It scours the sewers and bowels of the news to find and promote any story that put Arabs and Palestinians in a bad light, while at the same time scrupulously ignoring any stories that would reflect badly on Israel. You know, ‘Fair and Balanced’ like Fox News.

  9. Kay24
    Kay24
    May 23, 2014, 2:16 pm

    I am surprised that a Prime Minister of an occupying nation, trying to justify the brutal killing of two young kids, will stoop to tweeting a skewed poll (they hate us, so we just had to kill them, BS) taken by one of their faithful agencies, that poses as an American entity. Netanyahu is a world famous liar, distrusted by other leaders, and is dishonest as a pickpocket. Perhaps someone should remind him of THIS poll taken by an ISRAEL’s Dialog Polling group:

    “A new poll has revealed that a majority of Israeli Jews believe that the Jewish State practises “apartheid” against Palestinians, with many openly supporting discriminatory policies against the country’s Arab citizens.”

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-new-israeli-apartheid-poll-reveals-widespread-jewish-support-for-policy-of-discrimination-against-arab-minority-8223548.html

    He is beginning to make some tyrants in the world look good.

  10. seafoid
    seafoid
    May 23, 2014, 2:44 pm

    The use of that pathetic ADL stat to portray the side with the F18s and the cluster bombs as the victims is so typically Zionist.

    The FT ran an anti Hezbollah piece the other day. They mentioned 1978, 1982, 1996, and 2006 – 4 Israeli invasions of Lebanon in 28 years.
    And the bots are eternal victims . And they can murder at will.

    But as Said said, they’ll never have psychological peace. The ideology demands too much death.

  11. justicewillprevail
    justicewillprevail
    May 23, 2014, 2:46 pm

    As if the murder of two lads in broad daylight isn’t despicable enough, what i find just as nauseating is Israel’s entirely routine blatant lying and dissembling when confronted about it. The astonishing arrogance, smug, lazy, complacent blowing off of any demand for a coherent, responsible, serious response tells you all you need to know about the entrenched racist assumptions inherent in everything they say – the casual, indifferent assumption about their presumed superiority and privilege which entitles them to do anything they want to others, and offer no apology or the slightest recognition of their own obligations or liability. Clearly they think they have no obligation to anyone outside of their own little criminal clique.
    They have as much contempt for the rest of us as they have towards those poor Palestinian boys.
    Like gangsters, knowing no-one believes their innocence, they despatch their enforcers to prop up the lie in the pliant media and political spheres. They don’t care about the rest. It is a gangster’s paradise, where bluff and coercion carry the day.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      May 23, 2014, 3:55 pm

      Why can’t they be straight up honest and just repeat what they say in Hebrew-” this is Eghetz Isghael, we are Isghaeli, this is Joowish land, God gave it to us, theghe is no such thing as “Palestinians”. They aghe teghoghists . We shoot them because it is ough land.”

      And the goys would understand that.

      But no, it’s all guff about respecting human dignity and the morality of Judaism and the IDF code of conduct. Come on, Israel. You don’t honestly believe that, do you ?

    • Walker
      Walker
      May 24, 2014, 8:39 am

      The astonishing arrogance, smug, lazy, complacent blowing off of any demand for a coherent, responsible, serious response

      They’re like that because they can get away with it.

    • Walker
      Walker
      May 24, 2014, 8:44 am

      You miss the point. The point is found in seafoid’s excellent pick from the Guardian posted above:

      “Commenting on efforts to cast doubt on accounts of the affair in +972 online magazine, Dahlia Scheindlin, a public opinion analyst in Tel Aviv, attempted to explain recent comments: “Public figures are well aware that the postmodern mindset makes it hard to pin down facts.
      “Throwing out theories, no matter how wild, raises doubts even if far-fetched. Using words inaccurately, or not admitting to one’s actions is another form. Accusing the other side of full-out conspiracy and elaborate fabrications is another.”

      Depravity, but of a different kind.

    • Denis
      Denis
      May 24, 2014, 9:48 am

      JWP — well said.

      And I couldn’t help but notice that your message would be just as true if the target of your rant was changed from “Israel” to America’s cops — you know, the way they behave before they realize someone has taken a video of their unprovoked tazing, macing, beating, or killing.

      . . . astonishing arrogance, smug, lazy, complacent blowing off of any demand for a coherent, responsible, serious response tells you all you need to know about the entrenched racist assumptions inherent in everything they say – the casual, indifferent assumption about their presumed superiority and privilege which entitles them to do anything they want to others, and offer no apology or the slightest recognition of their own obligations or liability.

      The political, racial, and ethnic motivations are certainly different, but there is a common grain of evil in the make-up of millions of individual humans in all countries that controls the finger on the trigger.

  12. Darcha
    Darcha
    May 23, 2014, 3:00 pm

    The line that seems to be firming up out of Hasbara Central is that the video ‘proves’ the IOF’s using rubber-coated steel because of the muzzle adapter. All the ‘falling the wrong way’ stuff is just them fumbling–even if it’s enlightening to see Oren and your run of the mill troll using the exact same phrasing. Israeli Channel 2 even has a handy ‘weapons expert’ to make the point.

  13. wes
    wes
    May 23, 2014, 6:28 pm

    Interesting how this has come up during the pope,s visit
    whats the agenda
    it was inevitable that a side would try to exploit the pope,s visit for public relations
    the whole circus is not worth one more comment

    • talknic
      talknic
      May 24, 2014, 8:20 am

      from elsewhere…
      @ wes “AT 0:48 IN THE VIDEO HE TOOK THE DIVE <SOCCER PLAYER STYLE ARMS IN FRONT TO CATCH HIS FALL"

      Trip, fall, shot, its a natural protective muscle memory action. A fowl runs around with it’s head cut off, while it’s eyes blink and beak opens and closes

      “shot in the chest,entry and exit wound,and still manages to lift his head up in 2 photos”

      You can tell this from STILL photos? You’re amazing!

      “rubber bullet circled in red not on same level as medic,s head”

      The bullet is moving toward the group assisting the first victim, not the guy in the white TShirt. http://f8wee1vvia32pdxo527grujy61.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Nazzal.jpg And watch the man being interviewed, he points to the direction of the IDF position, same as the CNN footage

      ” and anyway it is a mark on the door”

      There’s no ‘mark on the door’ in the other photos wes … care to explain? http://f8wee1vvia32pdxo527grujy61.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Nazzal.jpg

      @ wes “ok found the edit….at 0:31 guy with backpack is the same guy at 0:48 walks the same way dressed the same”

      At what point is the edit wes? Please indicate or link to the video you’re watching … thx

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      May 24, 2014, 10:05 am

      What a load of crap. it was the zio who decided to murder these boys.

  14. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    May 23, 2014, 7:08 pm

    Oren: “they both fall in the same way. they fall forward, which is inconsistent w/ what we know about combat deaths.”

    This wasn’t combat!

    Also why does footage like this always get the “Zapruder” treatment? Listening to the apologists I found myself thinking about that scene in Oliver Stone’s “JFK.” -“back and to the left; back and to the left.”

  15. Denis
    Denis
    May 23, 2014, 8:39 pm

    MW readers who are concerned about the Beitunia killings may want to support a petition on the White House “We the people” web site. A total of 100,000 signatures need to get consideration, 99,999 to go.

    The petition: We petition the Obama administration to . . .

    Request the UN to initiate investigation of the deaths of unarmed Palestinian teenagers in the West Bank on May15.2014.

    There is strong video evidence, including a report broadcast by CNN, that two unarmed Palestinian teenagers were gunned down by Israeli soldiers near the Ofer military prison in the West Bank city of Beitunia on May15.2014. We ask that President Obama instruct US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power to request that the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights immediately initiate an investigation of the these deaths to determine whether they were extrajudicial killings and violations of the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
    Created: May 23, 2014

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/request-un-initiate-investigation-deaths-unarmed-palestinian-teenagers-west-bank-may152014/ndNwtW2P

  16. bilal a
    bilal a
    May 23, 2014, 10:26 pm

    This all can be fixed with the Canadian solution:

    Will Canada soon strip citizenship from dual passport holders?
    Legal experts say provisions in immigration law facilitating revocation of citizenship for Canadian-Israelis could be unconstitutional

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/dual-canadian-israeli-citizens-wary-of-proposed-change-to-canadas-immigration-law/

  17. ritzl
    ritzl
    May 23, 2014, 10:43 pm

    So Oren can’t even plainly acknowledge that these kids are dead. He and the people he represents are completely INSANE. What does he want us to believe, that they’re sipping tea in some Jordanian Gulf-side resort?

    But then he can’t admit it, can he? If he does then he has to come up with a whole cascade of increasingly ridiculous, improbable, and coincident events to explain what happened.

    Generically, .10 (probability) ^4 (events) = .0001 or .01% chance that events transpired the way the Israelis are spinning them. Throw in the .0000 fact that they were not shooting “rubber” bullets at the time of at least one of the shootings, as Hostage pointed out, and even that small probability goes to zero.

    Maybe more specifically (yet hypothetically/illustration only):

    Scanario 1:

    Improbable Event 1: (.10) that a Palestinian gunman got to within a few meters of the Israeli position without being seen by the Israelis or by the CCTV.

    Improbable Event 2: (.005) That gunman got not one, but two shots off from that position, separated by more than an hour, without being seen or heard by the Israelis.

    = .0005 or .05% chance that it happened this way.
    —-
    Scenario 2:

    Improbable Event 1: (.01) The CNN video and sound showed more than one muzzle-loaded “rubber” bullets being fired by the same weapon, in short succession, without reloading (i.e. that it was NOT live fire; it didn’t h/t Hostage).

    Improbable Event 2: (.2, for the sake of argument) the father of Nadeem Nawara made it all up (hole in backpack at the right height, blood, lightly-damaged 556 slug).

    Improbable Event 3: (.01) All the Palestinians waiting around for Oren’s scenario to happen kept it quiet beforehand, and gave a consistent description afterward, including all doctors and medical personnel (i.e. all Palestinians are liars…).

    Improbable Event 4: (.05, generous for the sake of argument) Israel never lies.

    = .000001 or .0001% chance that it happened this way.
    —-

    Just an exercise, and Oren’s a creative guy, but these types of probabilities are what are routinely given credence by media “explainers” and, apparently, representatives of belligerent foreign governments. Given credence over simple explanations with actual supporting evidence (Occam’s Razor/Sherlock Holmes and all that). It should be laughable.

    Jeez, if the Palestinians could orchestrate and navigate those types of probabilities in a chaotic situation (and as routinely as the Israelis say they do) they’d rule the world in pretty short order.

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      May 24, 2014, 12:35 am

      Oh, and the other thing about Oren’s sick fantasy is that a person will fall in exactly the position their inertia takes them when their nerves are destroyed (head/spine) or the life goes out of them. There is little imparted motion from “pointy” small-caliber rounds. That’s totally consistent with the CCTV video. There’s no one “way” people fall. It’s not the movies.

  18. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    May 24, 2014, 4:22 am

    This is really quite sick. Seriously, it is pathological, evidence of mental illness. So the Israelis are not only suggesting that Palestinians shoot – or pretend to shoot – each other for PR purposes, but that these boys are not really dead? That their parents are all pretending that their sons were killed, when actually they’re living it up in Aqaba or somewhere?

    Seriously, what sort of mind can descend to such levels? And how do they get away with it? It shows the utter depravity of Zionism. Zionism is beyond help.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      May 24, 2014, 8:49 am

      They have an ugly history of doing just that. After the Turkish flotilla massacre, they blatantly lied, blamed the victims, accused them of attacking their commandos, who by the way landed by helicopter wearing masks, having deadly weapons, and doctored audio tapes. Today it was announced that one of the victims, who was in a coma for 4 years, died of his injuries, making it the 10th victim, brutally killed by the vicious IDF.
      Same pattern, same violent actions, and same lies.
      The zionists aren’t smart enough to realize the more they lie, contradicting the evidence, the more THEY look evil.
      It is sheer insanity, coupled with evil intent, to rid the Galilee of Arabs.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        May 24, 2014, 10:11 am

        Exactly. It is a form of mental illness.

        If all they were interested in was PR, they would be better off concocting some ‘bad apples’ excuse, conduct an ‘investigation’ and let the two young grunts who killed the boys take the blame. But no. That would involve them acknowledging that Israelis are not always the victim and that Palestinians are human too. And this they cannot do. They cannot acknowledge the humanity of their ‘enemy’.

        Zionism is depraved.

  19. MRW
    MRW
    May 24, 2014, 8:38 am

    Just one more step in the beachheading of anti-Israel sentiments that is going to engulf them globally.

    Newsflash! Nobody gives a shit about being called anti-semitic when the ‘anti-semitic’ action is to object to trained soldiers killing unarmed kids. Doesn’t matter where it is or who is doing it, even Jews. In 2014, the holocaust doesn’t come with a pass at that, with murder rights, and the world–and everyone I know–is getting fed up with the constant insinuation that it does. Israel’s days are numbered among non-Jewish sympathies.

  20. seafoid
    seafoid
    May 24, 2014, 8:51 am

    I came across an interesting parallel with Israel’s attempts to shut critics down by calling them anti-Semites

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fd26ef40-671e-11e3-a5f9-00144feabdc0.html

    ” To take the most obvious example, the insolence of those clerics who tried to paint investigation of child abuse as a conspiracy against the Church has yet to be answered publicly.”

  21. talknic
    talknic
    May 24, 2014, 9:02 am

    “no blood”, they say http://wp.me/aDB7k-1bC

    ” it is a mark on the door” and “rubber bullet circled in red not on same level as medic’s head”, they say http://wp.me/aDB7k-1bD

    Are they blind? Stupid? Or propagandists?

    • Denis
      Denis
      May 24, 2014, 10:39 am

      Good eye, talk.

      But there are other marks on the wall that seem to come and go from photo to photo. There is a very clear mark on the solid stone part of the wall just to the right of the fifth block up. It is not seen in other photos.

      Allison’s rubber bullet picture is dramatic but unless it’s a fraud I don’t see the relevance. Does it make the point that IDF was shooting rubber bullets? OK, that’s exactly what THEY say. If the bullet slowed down enough to be caught on a DSLR then it was not going to hurt anyone seriously, even if it did hit them in the head. As the photos show, they guy supposedly hit does not even fall down.

      And, yes, one can see a very tiny amount of blood on the fingers in the close up of Salameh, so something must have hit him. But I’ve seen more blood from that from a burst blood-blister. Salameh was shot through the back, which means the exit hole was in the chest. And the place where the guy’s hand is is right over Salameh’s heart, presumably over the wound. There should be blood gushing all over the place if the bullet pierced his heart. A 5.56mm round is, basically, a .22 and you’d think it wouldn’t do much damage or leave much of an exit hole, but those babies are designed to tumble and fragment when they hit the target. They leave a sizable exit wound. So, what’s up with that?

      Both of these kids fell down on nearly the same exact spot on the pavement, judging by the roof line shadows. And there are at least a dozen views of that spot, even the next day. No blood stains can be seen. Nuwara was shot in the chest, exit wound in the back, and he rolled over onto his back. Blood should be quite visible on the ground once he was carried off.

      Finally, the still shots clearly show Nuwara holding his head off the ground, but both of the camera o1 and camera o2 CCTV views seem to show him with his head on the ground and not moving after he rolls over on his back. I cannot make that discrepancy make sense under any scenario.

      Your careful analysis of these images suggests that you agree that the truth of this matter lies not in the emotionalism, accusations, and denials, but in the details of those still photos and videos.

      BTW, here is a video made by Yisrael Putermane on the following day from the same place . It shows long views of the whole area and the surround buildings, and gives an excellent feel for where the IDF were. The shooting was almost certainly at: 31°53’07.96″ N 35°10’30.32″ E

      • talknic
        talknic
        May 24, 2014, 1:17 pm

        Denis “there are other marks on the wall that seem to come and go from photo to photo. There is a very clear mark on the solid stone part of the wall just to the right of the fifth block up. It is not seen in other photos.”

        Because it is obscured by someone’s head http://wp.me/aDB7k-1bE

        “Allison’s rubber bullet picture is dramatic but unless it’s a fraud I don’t see the relevance”

        The rubber bullet wasn’t fired at legs. It WAS fired at head height.

        “If the bullet slowed down enough to be caught on a DSLR … etc”

        Nonsense. Most journalists update their cameras regularly, high shutter speeds are COMMON and much higher than a rubber bullet velocity of 100m/s http://www.nature.com/eye/journal/v17/n7/full/6700447a.html#Discussion

        “Salameh was shot through the back, which means the exit hole was in the chest”

        Who said here was an exit hole? He was wearing a satchel on his back. The bullet would have been slowed by the satchel and whatever it contained , not slow enough to stop him from being killed.

        ” A 5.56mm round is, basically, a .22 and you’d think it wouldn’t do much damage or leave much of an exit hole, but those babies are designed to tumble and fragment when they hit the target. “

        Here’s a pic of the ‘baby’ that killed the first victim after passing through his chest through his body http://wp.me/aDB7k-1bF No sign of fragmenting.
        Here’s a pic of the neat hole it made in his satchel http://wp.me/aDB7k-1bG

        “And there are at least a dozen views of that spot, even the next day. No blood stains can be seen. “

        You need lots of blood Nosferatu? Ever heard of water, hose, cleaning

        “Finally, the still shots clearly show Nuwara holding his head off the ground,”

        A) It’s NOT Nuwara, it’s the second victim you named Salameh, and he has a satchel on his back and he’s on his side in the pics I’ve seen. B) You try putting your head on the ground while you’re on your side or with a satchel on your back. Futhermore if he didn’t die instantly, his body would be contorting.

        “I cannot make that discrepancy make sense under any scenario”

        I believe YOU can’t if you don’t want to

        “Your careful analysis of these images suggests that you agree that the truth of this matter lies not in the emotionalism, accusations, and denials, but in the details of those still photos and videos”

        They are the visual evidence we have

      • wes
        wes
        May 25, 2014, 4:51 am

        Talknic

        “You need lots of blood Nosferatu? Ever heard of water, hose, cleaning”

        You try to hard.

      • ritzl
        ritzl
        May 25, 2014, 2:44 am

        @Denis-

        The IDF appears to have been firing BOTH live and “rubber” bullets. It’s not an either-or question. Hostage pointed out that magazines with blanks are taped red and magazines with live rounds are not. Both are visible in the CNN footage.

        Whether this type of bullet fragments or exits is wholly dependent on what it hits, soft tissue (and how much) or bone. You can’t say there “should have been” an exit wound. There apparently was an exit wound that bled in Nawara’s case. It bled on and into his backpack. There may or may not have been one in Abu Daher’s case.

        The bullet being captured in an image is wholly dependent on the shutter speed, not the camera or frame rate. A fast shutter speed freezes the motion. Imho, this was an accidental capture that could have happened with any $500 camera with a 1/2000 sec. or faster shutter speed capability. But again, the camera debate just doesn’t matter – there it is.

        And what talknic said.

    • just
      just
      May 24, 2014, 11:02 am

      all of the above, and worse.

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