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Sullivan and Leveretts throw in the towel on two-state solution

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Andrew Sullivan, credit StuckinCustoms, Flickr

Andrew Sullivan, credit Stuck in Customs, Flickr

The death of the two-state solution is beginning to be a consensus position among American realists. The latest Gaza assault coupled with the failure of the peace process has had a big effect on these thinkers: it has convinced them that Israel has always had just one answer to Palestinian political demands– occupation and managed conflict.

Andrew Sullivan captures this new moment, stating that “a single political entity… is clearly the reality.”

The Obama administration was the last hope for some kind of agreement, and the Israelis have told the president to go fuck himself on so many occasions the very thought of accommodation is preposterous. With the acceleration of the settlements, and the ever-rising racism and religious fundamentalism in Israel itself, this is what Israel now is. And what it will always be. Anyone still assuming that a two-state solution is actually in the minds of the leaders of Israel is therefore whistling in the wind. One wonders simply how many Palestinians have to die and how much largess we must keep sending to Israel before that whistling eventually stops.

Flynt Leverett and Hillary Mann Leverett take it a step further at the National Interest, saying that Israel can’t be Jewish and democratic; Hamas is as Palestinian as an olive tree, and the struggle for equal rights is upon us. The mainstream discourse should reflect this reality, but it won’t. So the bodies are going to pile up.

The two-state solution’s demise inevitably conditions long-term erosion in the perceived legitimacy of the current Israeli political order. The proposition that Israel cannot continue occupying Palestinians while claiming to be both Zionist and democratic is no longer predictive analysis.

The U.S. government’s own demographic data show that the number of Arabs living under Israeli control — in “Green Line” Israel, Gaza, the Golan Heights, East Jerusalem, and the rest of the West Bank — already exceeds the number of Israeli Jews. In other words, what we call the state of Israel is already a minority regime for the people it governs. In the context of the current Gaza campaign, Israeli officials’ descriptions of Hamas as a foreign threat that must be defended against are disingenuous. Hamas is a homegrown movement, born in 1988 in Gaza under Israeli occupation….

A one-state scenario has profound implications for America’s position in the Middle East. For the United States to “lose” Israel as a proxy for projecting hard power would severely circumscribe Washington’s capacity to keep its Middle East strategy oriented toward regional dominance. It would instead push Washington toward a strategy of stabilizing the regional balance through serious diplomatic engagement with all relevant players (Iran as well as Israel and Saudi Arabia)….

Given the deeply counterproductive results of America’s Middle East strategy over the last quarter century, one may hope that Washington will finally stop making policy in defiance of on-the-ground reality.

In the near-to-medium term, though, American politicians and policymakers are more likely to continue doubling down on the sorts of policies — including ever-increasing military assistance for Israel — that have put the United States on a trajectory of ever-declining influence in one of the world’s most strategically vital regions.

I can’t help but put in another plug for Ayman Mohyeldin of NBC. He is clearly influencing Brian Williams and many others in the American elite. Last night Williams introduced the Gaza story by stating that the “lopsided” conflict had caused 185 Palestinian deaths, most of them civilians, including “many dead children,” and that Palestinians in Gaza have “no way out.” Mohyeldin’s ensuing report wasn’t about Gazans being torn limb from limb (which of course is happening) but about the more typical case, Palestinian families being terrified of the bombing and fleeing. In Mohyeldin’s report, no one is screaming or grieving, they are just scared to death. He is humanizing these people to Americans.

You can see the same in Mohyeldin’s pictures on his Instagram account. Here is an incredible shot of an old man comforting a boy who was “traumatized” by seeing a relative killed by an airstrike. Also, moonlight over minarets in Gaza. And the sun over the Mediterranean:

Good night from Gaza. Sunset over Gaza Beach and harbor. Hoping for a better tomorrow.

And this tweet yesterday–

The death toll has now hit 193. And Sullivan says that public officials’ refusal to acknowledge the death of the two-state solution means more Palestinian bodies will pile up. So why not endorse Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions? How else can an American act to save lives?

Also, when are liberal Zionists going to begin to reflect this new reality, and throw in the towel on their beloved two-state solution?

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60 Responses

  1. seafoid
    seafoid on July 15, 2014, 2:50 pm

    Don’t forget the complicity of the beltway pros who delivered this apartheid. Like Strobe Talbott who said there is never a good time for Israeli/Palestinian talks.

  2. ritzl
    ritzl on July 15, 2014, 4:06 pm

    Finally. Aided in no small part by Netanyahu flashing long-held intent.

    Interesting times ahead. We’ll be treated to one million ways to point a finger, methinks.

    This I think is where Mooser’s driver comes into serious (not that it wasn’t already) play – distinguishing Jews from Israel/Zionists. It’s going to get very ugly in Israel and in the co-dependent community abroad. Somehow I feel that the uglier it gets the more adamant Israel is going to be about representing all Jews, as a shield and cloak for that ugliness.

    • MRW
      MRW on July 16, 2014, 3:48 am

      In other words, ritzl, anti-semitism is on the horizon because of Israel’s actions, although not the classical variety which is that you’re hated just because you exist as a Jew. That died. That’s dead. But Jews in Israel are going to be reviled for their actions and choices; however, Diaspora Jews don’t necessarily need to be caught up in that dragnet if they don’t support the rabid flock in Israel.

      Is that what you’re saying?

      • ritzl
        ritzl on July 16, 2014, 3:24 pm

        Yep. And expanded to suggest that disapora Jews need to be more proactive in their distancing from Israel because right now they ARE caught up in the association with Israel, by acquiescence if nothing else. Hand-wringing won’t cut it anymore given Israel’s increasingly self-evident, murderous nature.

        Israel has succeeded in defining who’s a Jew. The only thing that counters that is for Jews to protest that definition loudly and often, preferably with sustained actions that make the point.

        Sad.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on July 16, 2014, 4:43 pm

        When Gaza finally succumbs to the complete breakdown of the water and sewage systems and becomes unliveable, antisemitism is going to really take off. Zionism has been a great joke up until now but Gaza is serious.

      • ritzl
        ritzl on July 16, 2014, 8:20 pm

        I go back to that Gaza-unique MRSA article you posted a couple years ago, seafoid. And that the summer currents in the eastern Med flow north from Gaza to those beautiful Tel Aviv beaches.

        I fear something really bad (re: uncontrollable forces; bio?, Al-Aqsa?…) is going to happen. Hope not.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on July 17, 2014, 9:40 am

        Ritzl

        the Israelis don’t give a shit about Gaza but the situation there is very precarious between lack of calories, trauma and sewage/water . And it’s all Israeli policy. When it eventually collapses the fallout will be dreadful for Israel. They have level of cruelty that most people are not aware of and they really do consider the people of Gaza as vermin.

        Already 80% of people are dependent on food aid- worse than Somalia. And this is 50 miles down the road from Tel Aviv, the richest city in the Levant.
        Gaza will expose the amorality at the heart of Zionism. I can see anti-Semitism resurging when people realise what they have done.

        This is the MRSA link . And the bots are so sick- the discovery is presented as a triumph of Israeli research

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israeli-scientists-find-new-strain-of-mrsa-bacteria-spreading-in-gaza-city.premium-1.437002

        “A joint initiative by Israeli and Palestinian scientists has identified that what is thought to be a unique strain of the MRSA bacterium is becoming common in Gaza City.

        Dr. Gili Regev-Yochay, a physician participating in the project and a researcher at the infectious disease unit at Sheba Medical Center, Tel Hashomer, said: “We found that the bacterium is transmitted very rapidly in Gaza. At first we thought it came from a European volunteer and spread because of the overcrowding, but genetic markers of the Gaza bacterium make us believe that it’s a different strain. We assume it developed resistance to antibiotics in some unique process that occurred in Gaza.”

      • just
        just on July 17, 2014, 9:53 am

        “And the bots are so sick- the discovery is presented as a triumph of Israeli research”

        Shades of something that happened decades ago.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on July 16, 2014, 10:01 pm

        “Diaspora Jews don’t necessarily need to be caught up in that dragnet if they don’t support the rabid flock in Israel.”

        It will be very difficult, and painful and wrenching, for the American Jewish community, such as it is, to make a break with Israel. And the American Jewish community is certainly not organized to process, declare and act on any kind of a break. I think most Jews will have to act as individuals in the matter.

  3. MHughes976
    MHughes976 on July 15, 2014, 4:27 pm

    In spite of all these wise words I still think that a 2ss will at some point – or through a confused process going through many points – arrive, even though it will be very unstable and of course thoroughly unjust. I cannot see any way of getting either to the Israeli or the Palestinian goal – or the Western goal, whatever that is – without a 2s stage.

  4. seafoid
    seafoid on July 15, 2014, 4:34 pm

    Liberal Zionists are afraid to look at the portrait of Dorian Israel. It has deteriorated even more in the last 2 weeks although Dorian looked very handsome on CNN today.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius on July 15, 2014, 4:53 pm

      Dorian Israel! Very good phrase, might steal it.

      And once again and with all respect, why are my comments languishing in pre-mod for hours when much more recent ones are already up?

      • jenin
        jenin on July 15, 2014, 8:46 pm

        It happens to me as well. I was thinking of asking the moderators. Could it be something with our settings?

      • RoHa
        RoHa on July 15, 2014, 8:51 pm

        That is one of the drawbacks of this site, MDM. Reply buttons vanish so that debates are cut off half way through. A frivolous comment I made two minutes ago may be published immediately, while a serious one languishes for days or even forever. Commas are misused brutally.

        But that is the way it is, and I, for one, think the overall value of the site is so great that I am prepared to take the rough with the smooth.

        Of course, if I were appointed full time moderator, many of these problems would be alleviated. Including, perhaps, even the ill-formed conditionals! But Phil and Adam have made no offer, even though I only require a modest $300,000 salary, and so I expect things will not change.

      • MRW
        MRW on July 16, 2014, 4:03 am

        @RoHa,

        Does that mean you’re available as an editor?

      • RoHa
        RoHa on July 16, 2014, 7:05 pm

        Available, but not free.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on July 16, 2014, 10:04 pm

        “Commas are misused brutally.”

        I tried semi-colons once, but I needed a commastomy bag in order to use them.

      • talknic
        talknic on July 16, 2014, 11:17 pm

        Semi-colons are half rrrrrsed … colonoscopic

      • RoHa
        RoHa on July 16, 2014, 11:40 pm

        Some people can use semi-colons; some can not.

    • Chu
      Chu on July 15, 2014, 6:59 pm

      It always has a shinier glimmer on CNN

    • ckg
      ckg on July 15, 2014, 8:27 pm

      “When one is in love, one always begins by deceiving one’s self, and one always ends by deceiving others. That is what the world calls a romance.”

  5. wondering jew
    wondering jew on July 15, 2014, 5:11 pm

    I wonder how Andrew Sullivan, who impresses me with his independence, likes to be lumped together with the Leveretts, a couple in the employ of a foreign country?

    • Kris
      Kris on July 15, 2014, 5:46 pm

      “a couple in the employ of a foreign country?” Like most of our Senators and Representatives?

    • Kris
      Kris on July 15, 2014, 7:12 pm

      @yonah fredman: “the Leveretts, a couple in the employ of a foreign country?”

      Are the Leveretts in the employ of a foreign country? Could you post a link? Like many other readers of mondoweiss, I hope to learn something from the articles and comments, and I just spent a few minutes googling the Leveretts, and haven’t found confirmation for what you say.

      The Leveretts seem to be very impressive, and they have lectured in many countries. Is this why you think they are “in the employ of a foreign country?”

      Hillary Mann Leverett: http://www.american.edu/sis/faculty/leverett.cfm
      Flynt Leverett: http://sia.psu.edu/faculty/flynt_leverett

    • MRW
      MRW on July 16, 2014, 3:51 am

      STFU yonah. The Leveretts are American heroes.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on July 16, 2014, 10:06 pm

      “a couple in the employ of a foreign country?”

      Of course, you can’t tell us which one, cause it’s a secret? Have you told HUAC?

  6. Castellio
    Castellio on July 15, 2014, 5:19 pm

    I hadn’t thought that you were the type to defame without facts. I guess I was wrong.

  7. Sumud
    Sumud on July 15, 2014, 5:50 pm

    The death of the two-state solution is beginning to be a consensus position among American realists.

    Indeed, just 4-5 years ago anyone who said one-state was practically ridiculed, even here in the bleachers at MW.

  8. Sumud
    Sumud on July 15, 2014, 5:54 pm

    A one-state scenario has profound implications for America’s position in the Middle East. For the United States to “lose” Israel as a proxy for projecting hard power would severely circumscribe Washington’s capacity to keep its Middle East strategy oriented toward regional dominance. It would instead push Washington toward a strategy of stabilizing the regional balance through serious diplomatic engagement with all relevant players (Iran as well as Israel and Saudi Arabia)….

    Who can tell me or provide some examples of the hard power the US is projecting via Israel?

    I read this article by the Leveretts a few days ago and that stuck out. Still wondering.

    • bilal a
      bilal a on July 15, 2014, 7:40 pm

      If you want to see a multicultural political entity with an elite substantial religious minority, examine New York City, or the US Senate as a whole. Minority rule through One Dollar, One Vote democracy (Bloomberg-ism)

      What evidence exists for seeing such a one state solution being more democratic or less aggressive in its approach to neighbors? Quite the contrary, it will be a substantially more powerful and legitimate supremacist state whose claim to arab inclusion could provide the justification for a Pax Judaica with expansion, eg

  9. sjarjour
    sjarjour on July 15, 2014, 7:31 pm

    The two-state solution isn’t dead. This isn’t chemistry. This is politics. As Mouin Rabbani points out, the French colonization of Algeria far exceeded Israel’s colonization of the occupied Palestinian territories, and yet that situation was reversed. Norman Finkelstein also mentions that Namibia was more integrated into South Africa than the Palestinian territories into Israel, yet Namibia became an independent state. So let’s leave ideology out of this conflict please.

  10. RoHa
    RoHa on July 15, 2014, 7:54 pm

    Who are Sullivan and the Leveretts? Are they people of importance whose views are widely read and respected?

    I noticed this bit, since I was living in Britain at the time of these events.

    “what about the country I grew up in, where pubs and department stores in the mainland were blown up, where the prime minister and her entire cabinet were bombed and some killed in a hotel? I don’t recall aerial bombing of Catholic areas in Belfast, do you?”

    And I recalled that The RAF was also remiss in its duty to bomb Boston.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/feb/17/iraq.usa

    Since Britain is not a country renowned for pacifism, cowardice, or excessive concern for foreigners, Israel’s lack of restraint looks all the more monstrous.

  11. tokyobk
    tokyobk on July 15, 2014, 8:41 pm

    “Also, when are liberal Zionists going to begin to reflect this new reality, and throw in the towel on their beloved two-state solution?”

    When they become convinced that Jews are safe in the world and in Israel (or whatever it eventually becomes) regardless of the demography.

    That may be an impossible task (because the fear is both rational and irrational and the fear is also a pretext for those whose ideology depends on it).

    But, that is the answer to this important question.

    Also, we will see who is liberal and who is Zionist more clearly in the next years.

    • ritzl
      ritzl on July 15, 2014, 9:29 pm

      When they become convinced that Jews are safe in the world and in Israel (or whatever it eventually becomes) regardless of the demography.

      So you’re going to keep killing Palestinian children until “Jews are safe in the world?” Who decides when “Jews are safe in the world?” What if some Jews never feel “safe in the world?”

      What if you never reach your philosophical nexus because Israel been so effective equating Israel to all “the Jews” and has killed so many Palestinian babies trying to make “the Jews” feel “safe in the world” that no Jew can ever again be “safe in the world?”

      “The beatings will continue until morale improves.” works as a bumper sticker or funny t-shirt precisely because of its absurdity as policy. You simply can’t get there from here. Try something else like stop believing your own BS and start solving the problem peacefully.

      Here’s a thought. The US Navy starts inspecting and escorting seaborne commerce into and out of Gaza. That solves every single stinking problem. No more rockets. No political angst about opening crossings. No Gazan kid will ever again have to risk going into an Israeli buffer zone and get shot dead. Gaza develops its own natural resources and blooms. Hamas moderates. Palestinians can build something with pride.

      Why won’t it happen? Because your eternally disconnected logic is useful in Israel. Israel can use the logic to blame and keep killing Palestinians PRN. Israel doesn’t care about rockets or dead/frightened/”unsafe” Jewish-Israelis. It wants the natural resources. If it did care it wouldn’t constantly be instigating them. Rockets help it keep Gaza occupied by invoking the “Jewish safety principle” you so perfectly describe.

      • tokyobk
        tokyobk on July 16, 2014, 3:20 am

        I like your blockade idea.

        The rest I am going to assume you mean “you” and “your” as a kind of 3rd person stand in otherwise you should be ashamed of yourself, first of all your low reading comprehension.

      • ritzl
        ritzl on July 16, 2014, 3:40 pm

        @tbk- You define a non-resolvable condition for moving on to Plan B. I pointed out the absurdity of that condition. But more, you don’t seem to know or care that the perpetuation of the two-state farce involves killing Palestinians to prolong it. Israel uses the “safety” argument (usually manifested as “self-defense”) as justification for killing Palestinians PRN. “Your” argument is Israel’s argument.

        But you’re right it doesn’t matter anymore. One state is here. The only question is how many Palestinians will Israel wantonly kill for “safety” or any other reason as it resists that outcome. Jews will never be safe in Israel as long as violence is accepted as a means to avoid solving the problem.

        My point was instead of justifying the status quo with open-ended nonsense, you could be actively seeking ways (or describing the ways you are actively seeking) to avoid killing people to prolong the inevitable. IMHO.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on July 16, 2014, 10:10 pm

        ritzl, I keep on telling you, Zionists think the world owes them a free, no-consequences atrocity of their own. Now tokyobk, in his own charming way, takes the idea one step further; he’s saying that Jews will never be safe until we commit that atrocity and show the world our mettle! That’s what his little sophistries boil down to.

    • Inanna
      Inanna on July 15, 2014, 9:46 pm

      So it’s the feeling of safety that is more important than the actual fact that they are safe that is more important?

      Well, while you and your fellow zionist jews are unable to reconcile their fears with their actual physical safety in countries like the US Palestinians are being killed. I’m not sorry that I don’t give a shit about your feelings while people I know and love are under attack and dying while your work through your inability to cognitively recognize your safety.

      • tokyobk
        tokyobk on July 16, 2014, 3:19 am

        Inanna,

        Its been a terrible week. As I walked by the office tv today I heard the 200th Palestinian has been killed. So, I understand how with your emotions high you might have completely missed my meaning and intention in answering Phil’s question as I did.

        We could have a separate debate about whether Jewish feelings matter or whether they should matter how/if they matter more than other groups but all that would be separate to the reality that in political terms they do matter. Its what Phil writes about all the time. I believe it was a major impetus for starting MW — meaning how what Jews believe influences the debate and reality inordinately. My answer reflects that reality not what I think is fair or right, though I do of course want to see an equitable outcome.

        I don’t support the occupation, the ghettoing of Gaza or the Zionist goal of a Jewish state. I do support a state where Jews are safe and equal but not at the expense of anyone else least of all people whose families have been living there from time immemorial.

      • MRW
        MRW on July 16, 2014, 4:01 am

        Its been a terrible week. As I walked by the office tv today I heard the 200th Palestinian has been killed. . . . I do support a state where Jews are safe and equal but not at the expense of anyone else least of all people whose families have been living there from time immemorial.

        I haven’t seen you support anything of the kind on this board.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on July 16, 2014, 10:14 pm

        “Its been a terrible week.”

        Gosh, it’s a wonder you survived! But that’s still no reason to dump a load of senseless gobbledygook on everybody. You go all over nowhere and then close with the usual equivalency-based Hasbara. Is that fair?

      • gamal
        gamal on July 16, 2014, 11:26 pm

        “I understand how with your emotions high you might have completely missed my meaning and intention”

        apart from the unwarranted and repellent condescension that is always possible, but you ascribe Inanna’s “misreading” to feelings, that you then assert “dont really matter”, as in:

        “We could have a separate debate about whether Jewish feelings matter or whether they should matter how/if they matter more than other groups but all that would be separate to the reality that in political terms they do matter.”

        this whole circumlocution can be reduced to “Jewish feelings matter more” than……what the legal and fundamental human rights of others, that’s a bold statement, to which i hope few would agree and if that is the case perhaps Jews should all put in a darkened quiet room and do some quiet grouting far from political realities, which have habit of changing anyway, its called the struggle of life, do they not have that in Japan? it never stops you know.

        Sorry you had a bad week, the politcal realities must be respected, so how many untermenschen rights will it cost to perk you up? they feel no pain that is politically significant, bless their little hearts, and if they pretend to and object to all this pillage and murder, well we all know where that leads, just look at Gaza.

    • seafoid
      seafoid on July 16, 2014, 3:15 am

      Tokyo
      If safe jews is the name of the game do you think it makes sense to run sparta 2.0 in the Levant? I think the location is a problem.
      Israel is addicted to violence. Take a look at it from another angle. Say israel has a porn addiction and kids in the wider family have to be kept safe from porn. Does it make sense to have kids living with Uncle Israel?

      Jon over on another thread says gaza has to be weapons free. Only jews can be safe. How do you sell that to non jews and outside any framework of justice?

      • tokyobk
        tokyobk on July 16, 2014, 3:23 am

        I think fortress Israel is a terrible idea and don’t believe it is the best option for keeping Jews safe there or in the world.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on July 16, 2014, 10:17 pm

        “I think fortress Israel is a terrible idea and don’t believe it is the best option for keeping Jews safe there or in the world.”

        How on earth could Israel ever contribute a goddam thing to keeping Jews safe “in the world”? As I recall the arrangement, the safety of those, uh, Zionists is my goddam responsibility, or so they keep telling me. What are you trying to pull, tokyobk?

      • tokyobk
        tokyobk on July 16, 2014, 4:02 am

        But I don’t believe that there are inherently white and black and Jewish and Muslim places in the world. I think you hold a more dim and essentialist view of the (so-called) Arab world. Co-existance is possible though it would not even be “co” since citizens would not be segregated. I do think that the more Jews can imagine a safe (for them) post-Israel the more quickly you will see a turn from Zionism.

      • seafoid
        seafoid on July 16, 2014, 4:01 pm

        I think the Arab world offer is the best israel will get and the best way to
        secure a jewish presence in the region. YESHA will kill that. Israel seems to have masada as its end point. Again. Like it can’t escape the shtetl.

    • MRW
      MRW on July 16, 2014, 3:56 am

      When they become convinced that Jews are safe in the world and in Israel (or whatever it eventually becomes) regardless of the demography.

      That may be an impossible task (because the fear is both rational and irrational and the fear is also a pretext for those whose ideology depends on it).

      Since when does the life of a Jew become more valuable than anyone else’s?

      Why should 2014-World buy that shit?

  12. Nevada Ned
    Nevada Ned on July 15, 2014, 10:39 pm

    The argument against the 2ss is that successive Israeli govts have killed it, by implanting so many illegal jews-only settlements on the W Bank, now up to 20% of the Israeli Jewish population, that no future Israeli govt will allow the occupied W Bank to go.
    Hence, it could only happen it if were FORCED on Israel.

    The argument against the 1ss is that it has almost no support among Israeli Jews. Hence, it could only happen if it were FORCED on Israel.

    So, either proposed solution could only happen if it were forced on Israel, by external forces, because internal forces along are not strong enough.

    Too bad that Chomsky (whom i admire otherwise) wasn’t asked: do you think Israel will ever agree to 2ss or 1ss, without a lot of external pressure from BDS etc.

    It will take external pressure on Israel to get either one.

  13. jon s
    jon s on July 16, 2014, 2:56 am

    One of the conclusions from the present situation is that the “one-state” idea should be officially pronounced dead. Anyone who thinks otherwise should just wake up and look around.The only possible solution is two states.

    • seafoid
      seafoid on July 16, 2014, 3:19 am

      There’s a hole in the bucket dear jon, dear jon
      Well fix it dear kerry, dear kerry
      With what shall I fix it dear jon , dear jon
      With negotiations dear kerry, dear kerry
      But there are 750 thousand jewish settlers in the bucket dear jon , dear jon

    • MRW
      MRW on July 16, 2014, 3:58 am

      The only possible solution is two states.

      Oh yeah? You’re not helping that.

      • jon s
        jon s on July 16, 2014, 11:38 am

        MRW, I’m not helping? I practically invented “two states”.

    • Penfold
      Penfold on July 16, 2014, 5:11 am

      “jon s says:
      July 16, 2014 at 2:56 am

      One of the conclusions from the present situation is that the “one-state” idea should be officially pronounced dead. Anyone who thinks otherwise should just wake up and look around.The only possible solution is two states.”

      I think you are deluded if you think anything but a single state option is remotely possible now but just for the sake of fun how about laying out your vision of a viable Palestinian state given the half a million squatters infesting the West Bank currently.

      Lets face it building a non-viable Palestinian state (aka the Bantustan proposals) will not lead to stability and a failed Palestinian state is effectively the status quo so what will the State of Palestine look like in your world, it should be interesting given that no one wants to talk borders

    • Djinn
      Djinn on July 16, 2014, 5:50 am

      And how do you see a 2 state solution working? Do you support an ACTUAL 2 state settlement or the kind that every single Israeli negotiator ever has envisioned? A sovereign state that controls its borders or a disconnected bunch of demilitarised Bantustans?

      • jon s
        jon s on July 16, 2014, 11:51 am

        There’s no big mystery here. Basically , the borders would be based on the 67 borders, with minor, mutually-agreed adjustments. Jerusalem would be the capital of both states. In other words, East Jerusalem will be the capital of the Palestinian state. The settlers will, for the most part , have to be repatriated. The two states will sign a peace treaty and maintain diplomatic, commercial and cultural relations.
        In the long run, after a certain period, this arrangement could evolve into a federation.

        Naturally, there are lots of details which woul have to be worked out in negotiations, once the principles are agreed.

      • libra
        libra on July 16, 2014, 4:34 pm

        Goodness me Jon, what a brilliant idea! It just needs a nifty name. How about “peace process”?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on July 16, 2014, 10:20 pm

        And all we need (for that “outside pressure”toward the 2ss) is an honest broker! Hooray for the honest broker!

  14. seafoid
    seafoid on July 17, 2014, 9:51 am

    Very good FR editorial

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/56e6ea6a-0cd0-11e4-bf1e-00144feabdc0.html

    “Israeli policy has left the Palestinian Authority toothless and discredited, its land eaten away by the continuing occupation of the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem. But Israel’s reputation in the world is also eroding, and it is an illusion to think it can remain an oasis of peace and prosperity in a region on fire, so long as the Palestinians have no prospect of a viable state of their own.”

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