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Root cause of current crisis is Israeli government effort since 1967 to transform East Jerusalem into a Jewish city

Israel/Palestine
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The Institute for Middle East Understanding conducted the following interview with Ingrid Jaradat Gassner on the current situation in Jerusalem. Jaradat Gassner is the Coordinator of International Advocacy and Public Relations for the Civic Coalition for Palestinian Rights in Jerusalem. The interview was posted on the IMEU site here

Q – Tensions in Jerusalem, particularly in the eastern, occupied half of the city, have been extremely high since the summer. How would you describe the current situation?

IJG – “The current situation in East Jerusalem is one of acute political and inter-communal crisis. It is characterized by increasingly aggressive and provocative actions of Jewish nationalist-religious fundamentalist groups, and overt support by the Israeli government of these groups and their efforts to impose more Jewish settlements in the midst of Palestinian neighborhoods in and around the Old City and to change the status quo and obtain (partial) control of the Al Aqsa (Noble Sanctuary) compound. The declared decision of the Israeli government to crush Palestinian protests by means of brutal force is reminiscent of Israel’s ‘iron fist’ and ‘breaking bones’ policy of the first intifada. This policy has resulted in a deep sense of insult and humiliation among all sectors of East Jerusalem’s Palestinian population, including among youth and the un-politicized.”

Q – What’s at the root of the current unrest?

IJG – “The root cause of the acute current crisis is the effort of all Israeli governments since 1967 to transform occupied East Jerusalem into a Jewish-Israeli city, through aggressive settlement expansion that has encouraged settler violence, and a myriad of policies that have deprived Palestinians of the basic elements of a dignified life, such as freedom of movement, having a home, family and income from work, and respect of their culture, heritage and religious sites. The more immediate causes of the current crisis are of course the events that have transpired since this summer, in particular the collective punishment of the Palestinian population, including mass arrests and severe movement restrictions that followed the abduction and murder of the three Israeli youth in the West Bank, the kidnapping and murder of Muhammad Abu Khdeir in Jerusalem, and the Israeli settler takeover of apartments in Silwan.”

Q – Some observers believe that a third intifada, or uprising against Israel’s occupation, is underway in Jerusalem. Do you think this is an accurate assessment?

IJG – “A renewed Palestinian popular uprising against Israeli oppression will happen only when protests spread beyond the limits of East Jerusalem and find the support of leadership that inspires and raises political demands which are an alternative to the status quo. These ingredients are currently not in sight.”

Q – Israeli authorities have recently announced severe measures they hope will quell the unrest, including passing a law that calls for prison terms of up to 20 years for stone throwing. Israeli police have also been targeting Palestinian children, arresting and holding dozens of minors for a month or more before facing trial. Do you think these attempts to suppress discontent will succeed?

IJG – “As already mentioned, this policy, which is reminiscent of the ‘iron fist’ and ‘breaking bones’ policy of the Israeli government in the first intifada, results in a deep sense of insult and humiliation, in addition to the usual oppression and daily hardship. In the absence of a Palestinian leadership that is willing and able to channel anger and humiliation into a political uprising, more Israeli repression is a recipe for more inter-communal violence by private individuals and groups, Palestinians and Israelis.”

Q – What will it take to calm the situation?

IJG – “A necessary first step would be a clear and strong diplomatic intervention by Jordan, the European Union and the United States, which ensures that the status quo in the Al Aqsa compound is respected by the Israeli government and that Palestinians have free access for worship. Jordan as guardian of the Al Aqsa compound, for example, would have to follow-through on its threat to suspend its agreements with Israel, and would have to be backed by the EU and the US. Subsequently, Israel’s powerful allies, in particular the US and the EU, as well as the United Nations, would have to adopt diplomatic and economic measures which make settlement expansion in occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank too costly for Israel to proceed.”

Q – The US has been critical of recent settlement announcements in Jerusalem, but has refused to spell out any consequences for continued Israeli disregard for American concerns and policies. Do you think this lack of American resolve emboldens Israeli hardliners?

IJG – “Yes, of course. As long as Israeli politicians and the public will believe that there is no price to be paid for settlement expansion in terms of international relations and economic cooperation, settlement expansion will be supported by the Israeli public, political parties and governments.”

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146 Responses

  1. just
    just
    November 6, 2014, 9:48 am

    Thanks for this truthful interview.

    It’s cogent, and one that I can pass along to the willfully uninformed and ignorant.

    Thank you, Ingrid Jaradat Gassner.

  2. Horizontal
    Horizontal
    November 6, 2014, 10:37 am

    In the US at least, this is a voice that we need to be hearing on NPR, This Week, Fox & Friends, the Washington Post, the CBS Evening News, the New York Times, Meet the Press or any of the other ways that most Americans get their news.

    My guess is that framing the current violence in Jerusalem as the result of a long and ongoing plan of the Israeli Government just isn’t going to happen. Connecting the dots — especially where these particular dots lead — is the one thing that our major media outlets spectacularly fail at doing.

    What will happen, if anything, are some juicy pictures of violence in isolation, and an attempt by our good friend Israel to defend themselves against rootless anger. It’s a pigeonhole just waiting to be filled in with some details. But not too many, of course.

    There is a reason that Americans are so largely ignorant about both geography and history and why they are also so easily lead into supporting foreign misadventures.

    Maybe I woke up extra pessimistic this morning; I’d really like to wrong about all this, but I don’t think I am.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 6, 2014, 10:53 am

      >> Horizontal: My guess is that framing the current violence in Jerusalem as the result of a long and ongoing plan of the Israeli Government just isn’t going to happen. Connecting the dots — especially where these particular dots lead — is the one thing that our major media outlets spectacularly fail at doing.

      If dots were to be connected, they’d lead back – over 60 years of offensive (i.e., not defensive) aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder – from the current violence to the Jewish terrorism that resulted in the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands and the establishment of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” in Palestine.

      That’s an awful lot of dots of injustice and immorality.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 9:35 am

        That could make one hell of a documentary.

        Where are you, PBS? No? History Channel? No? How about you, Spielberg? I’m sure Tom Hanks would love to play Ben-Gurion.

  3. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 6, 2014, 10:59 am

    I have yet to hear anyone in the zio media, mention that the ongoing violence stems primarily from the occupation, and that it is time the occupation must end. The words “occupation, blockades, and suffering of the Palestinians”, are NEVER heard nor discussed by the zio pundits.
    It is as if they are all dirty words.

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 6, 2014, 11:40 am

      Kay ~

      There is no occupation. Only a conflict over disputed territory to be settled by negotiations.

      That’s the frame that drains all the blood out of the situation, along with the reality.

    • Walid
      Walid
      November 7, 2014, 1:03 pm

      “The words “occupation, blockades, and suffering of the Palestinians”, are NEVER heard nor discussed by the zio pundits.”

      Not just the zios, Kay, same happening elsewhere:

      “Al-Arabiya echoes Zionist rhetoric in reporting about al-Aqsa

      It was rather normal for Al-Arabiya news channel to retract its story about the unprecedented closure of al-Aqsa Mosque on October 28. The channel may have thought that the terminology it used would go unnoticed. However, Al-Arabiya later deleted the story from its website after having caused an online backlash for echoing Zionist rhetoric.

      In an act further promoting Zionist terminology, the Saudi news channel replaced al-Aqsa Mosque with the “the holy compound,” a term usually reserved for Zionists in their reference to the holy site.

      In fact, Israel had closed the mosque following the shooting of hardline Rabbi Yehuda Glick [allegedly] by Palestinian Mutaz Hijazi, with Al-Arabiya reporting the news as, “A right-wing Israeli activist was shot and wounded last night as he left a conference promoting a campaign to permit both Jews and Muslims to pray at the holy compound.”

      The channel, hence, adopted the terminology used by Zionists. This caused an angry backlash over social media websites, with activists accusing Al-Arabiya of committing “political and religious treason” by adhering to the “Zionist plan” to Judaize Palestine.

      This caused an angry backlash over social media websites, with activists accusing Al-Arabiya of committing “political and religious treason” by adhering to the “Zionist plan” to Judaize Palestine.

      However, after thoroughly reading Al-Arabiya’s report, one would notice that the channel not only resorted to Zionist terms, but framed the story in a manner that reflected the channel’s policy that complies with Zionism. The term “occupation” did not appear, not even by chance, and the channel opted to use “Israeli police” instead. Moreover, the story depicted Jewish hardliners present at al-Aqsa on an equal footing with Palestinians.

      The story was hence reported as follows, “the Israeli police closed the Noble Sanctuary… in a rare step aiming to prevent clashes between Muslims and Jews.”

      Full article:

      http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/al-arabiya-echoes-zionist-rhetoric-reporting-about-al-aqsa

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 10:21 pm

        “Clashes.”

        Like they were wearing the wrong colors.

        Language is the first tool of oppression.

  4. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    November 6, 2014, 11:15 am

    RE: “Root cause of current crisis is Israeli government effort since 1967 to transform East Jerusalem into a Jewish city”

    MY COMMENT: This is yet another reason that Jerusalem must be made an ‘international city’ pursuant to General Assembly resolution 181 (II) November 29, 1947, which provides for the full territorial internationalisation of Jerusalem: “The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations.”
    Netanyahu recently made it clear (albeit speaking only in Hebrew) that as far as he is concerned there will never be a sovereign nation-state of Palestine in the West Bank (with, or without, E. Jerusalem as its capital). Consequently, unless Jerusalem is protected by virtue of its being made an ‘international city’ administered by the UN, it is just a matter of time before the Dome of the Rock, the Al-Aqsa mosque and numerous other historic sites come under existential threat as Israel’s radical, extremist nationalists (like Yehuda Glick and Moshe Feiglin of the Temple Institute) become more and more determined to completely “Judeaize” the city.

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 6, 2014, 11:43 am

      The UN should have really stepped in long ago to ensure that Jerusalem remained open to all. That they didn’t is only one of the organization’s ongoing failings.

      • just
        just
        November 6, 2014, 12:28 pm

        “Amid the violence associated with the issue, the Palestinians and Jordan urged the UN security council on Wednesday to demand that Israel immediately stop provocations and incitement against Muslim holy sites in Jerusalem, warning that further escalation could lead to another crisis threatening peace in the Middle East.

        Countering that complaint Israel’s UN ambassador, Ron Prosor, sent what the Israeli mission called a “sarcastic letter” to the security council listing acts of incitement by the Palestinian leadership, including last month’s drive-by shooting of a Jewish activist who had pushed for greater Jewish access to the sacred hilltop compound.

        Prosor’s letter noted the council’s failure to “utter a word” about “this blatantly dangerous provocation”.”

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/06/binyamin-netanyahu-prayers-noble-sanctuary-temple-mount

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        November 7, 2014, 8:43 am

        Horizontal November 6, 2014, 11:43 am
        The UN should have really stepped in long ago to ensure that Jerusalem remained open to all. That they didn’t is only one of the organization’s ongoing failings.

        Yes, it’s true that the UN did nothing during the 19-year period of Jordanian rule in East Jerusalem from 1949-1967 to ensure that it remain open to all, and consequently, Jews were completely barred from praying at the Western Wall and other shrines in Jerusalem for the first time since the Crusader period, were forbidden to visit the Jewish cemetery on Mt. of Olives (where generations of my ancestors, including my great grandparents, were buried), and the Old City’s ancient Jewish Quarter remained ethnically cleansed of its Jewish inhabitants (including my father’s cousins, aunt and uncle–his parents had left before he was born for the Nahlaot neighborhood in the New City–today a religious hipster ‘hood). During the Jordanian period, a small number of Israeli Muslims and Christians were permitted to traverse into the Old City once a year for religious festivals, but Israeli Jews were banned from the eastern part of the city (and even foreign Jews were denied entry, with rare exceptions). The sole Jews in the eastern half of the city was a small garrison that was allowed to guard the Hebrew University campus and Hadassah Hospital building on Mount Scopus, but the articles of the Armistice Agreement guaranteeing the functioning of these institutions as an Israeli enclave in Jordanian territory was never enforced. Jerusalem was criss-crossed with barbed wire, with border guards from Israel and Jordan taking potshots at each other and at civilians. That was the Jerusalem of my father’s youth. Since 1967, it has been open to people of all faiths again. So yeah, the UN really dropped the ball and can’t be trusted.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 1:07 pm

        It is absolutely soul-chilling to a Jew to gather, from a comment like Mikhaels, the extent to which Zionist will prostitute the Jewish religion for their aims.

        (where generations of my ancestors, including my great grandparents, were buried),”

        Let me guess, you have a land deed, and the key to your house, to?

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 10:31 pm

        Mikhael ~

        It must be frustrating having a country repeatedly ignore or violate UN directives. I bet you would be the last person to support a country like that, wouldn’t you?

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 9, 2014, 6:53 pm

        @ Mikhael

        “Yes, it’s true that the UN did nothing during the 19-year period of Jordanian rule in East Jerusalem from 1949-1967 to ensure that it remain open to all, and consequently, Jews were completely barred from praying at the Western Wall and other shrines in Jerusalem “

        ISRAELI LAW of 1948 (still current) prohibited Israeli citizens and residents from entering the territory of hostile entities.

        It’s NORMAL for countries at war to ban the citizens of enemy states and to ban or intern possibly 5th columnists from amongst their own citizens and to freeze their assets. It’s also normal to lift those bans and allow their return after hostilities.

        The West Bank as it was officially renamed was under the legal Jordanian sovereignty until it was handed over to the PLO on the signing of the Peace Treaty. The West Bank was until that time part of a UN Member state and High Contracting Power. There was no UNSC condemnation of the annexation of the territory to Jordan as it was requested (bilateral)

        The West Bank as it is now known, was legally annexed at the request of the Palestinians Jordan’s annexation was as a trustee only (Session: 12-II Date: May 1950).

        “for the first time since the Crusader period, were forbidden to visit the Jewish cemetery on Mt. of Olives..

        Go bitch to the Zionist federation you stupid person, they’re the idiots who wanted separate Jewish State. In Herzl’s lifetime, he could have immigrated to Palestine, bought land, attained citizenship, settled anywhere in the Jewish People’s Historic homeland. He didn’t bother. Nor did his family. A missed opportunity!

        In the period of the Mandate for Palestine (Article 7) Jews could immigrate to Palestine, buy land, attain citizenship, settle anywhere in the Jewish People’s Historic homeland. The Zionist demanding a separate state destroyed that opportunity too!

        ” During the Jordanian period, a small number of Israeli Muslims and Christians were permitted to traverse into the Old City once a year for religious festivals, but Israeli Jews were banned”

        Source please…..thx

        Meanwhile it’s NORMAL. Israel was at war with Jordan! The US , UK, Australia banned and interned people of German and Japanese descent during WW2

        “the articles of the Armistice Agreement guaranteeing the functioning of these institutions as an Israeli enclave in Jordanian territory was never enforced. “

        The actual text of the Armistice Agreements contradicts your ziopoop pal.

        Article 5

        3. The basic purpose of the Armistice Demarcation Line is to delineate the line beyond which the armed forces of the respective Parties shall not move except as provided in Article III of this Agreement.

        4. Rules and regulations of the armed forces of the Parties, which prohibit civilians from crossing the fighting lines or entering the area between the lines, http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/mfadocuments/yearbook1/pages/israel-egypt%20armistice%20agreement.aspx

        “. So yeah, the UN really dropped the ball and can’t be trusted.”

        Your bullsh*t doesn’t stand up to scrutiny.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 9, 2014, 7:05 pm

        Thanks, talknic.

        That was refreshing.

  5. ivri
    ivri
    November 6, 2014, 12:29 pm

    Let`s be honest about it (even if not politically correct) – there is indeed a deep desire and a concrete plan to make Jerusalem the capital of the (only) Jewish State. This is an integral part of the normalization of the Jewish people, which like all other nations, after millennia of being in exile and subject to horrendous experiences, now have a state of its own and a capital – the choice of which, given Judaism and Jewish history, cannot be but Jerusalem. This by no means excludes an Arab minority and a Christian role (with its holy places there) but the envisaged framework is the above. There is no need to be ashamed about it or deny it.

    • annie
      annie
      November 6, 2014, 5:48 pm

      Let`s be honest about it (even if not politically correct) – there is indeed a deep desire and a concrete plan to make Jerusalem the capital of the (only) Jewish State.

      oh wow you don’t say ivri. that’s an amazing discloser. who tipped you off? heehehe.

      i seriously doubt anyone would refute that. i think everyone and all their relatives are completely aware there is desire and a plan to make Jerusalem the capital of Israel. we get it, you want it.

      • just
        just
        November 6, 2014, 6:26 pm

        ivri– it ain’t yours! it’s not up for grabs. no way, no how, nuh- uh.

        “This is an integral part of the normalization of the Jewish people, which like all other nations, after millennia of being in exile and subject to horrendous experiences, now have a state of its own and a capital ”

        Israel is not the “Jewish people”. The “Jewish people” are not a nation. Israel is not normal. Civilized nations should cut ties with it, before they sink along with it.

      • ivri
        ivri
        November 7, 2014, 2:38 am

        @ Annie
        I know it`s banal (what I wrote), and I too don`t like to be so, but sometimes you have a feeling that people, carried out with details, forget basic truisms – so consider it a reminder. This is history in the making – over a century now and I am sure you can see the trend (which is banal too so I spare you the details).

      • annie
        annie
        November 7, 2014, 3:55 am

        ivri, Let`s be honest about it (even if not politically correct) – Jerusalem is a holy city and an arab city, in palestine. it was built by arabs, muslim arabs, christian arabs and jewish arabs. it is in the middle east, not europe.

        zionism/ jewish nationalism is not compatible with a multi ethnic, multi religious, multi cultural community. colonialism is not compatible with indigenous peoples (ever).

        This by no means excludes a european minority and a jewish role (with its holy places there) but the envisaged framework is the above. There is no need to be ashamed about it or deny it. –

        I know it`s banal (what I wrote), and I too don`t like to be so, but sometimes you have a feeling that people, carried out with details, forget basic truisms – so consider it a reminder. This is history in the making – over a century now and I am sure you can see the trend (which is banal too so I spare you the details). –

      • annie
        annie
        November 7, 2014, 4:45 am

        sometimes you have a feeling that people, carried out with details, forget basic truisms

        i keep coming back to this thing you’ve written. this thing which implies what you perceive is an “integral part of the normalization of the Jewish people” should for some reason trump what’s an integral part of the normalization of the other people.

        are we supposed to think ‘omg, it’s integral for jewish people therefor it make so much sense to prioritize or elevate the “deep desire and.. concrete plans” of jewish people’? do you mean that because it’s a “truism” jews want jerusalem it will be theirs? how’d that work out for jews last time ivri? what did it last? 70 yrs? maybe it only lasted 70 years because jews didn’t have a “deep desire and.. concrete plans” to hold onto jerusalem back then?

        so, wrt truisms, you can’t have both. either it’s a truism that jewish desires manifest into reality or not. and if that’s the case reality would have to mimic jewish desires in which case the exile of jews from jerusalem was a jewish desire. 70 years centuries ago ivri. that’s your track record. so don’t talk to me about truisms as if jerusalem is your fait accompli after a piddly few decades. time will tell ivri, there is no truism here other than ‘jewish desires’ which obviously rely and depend on protection and support from the US. israel can’t even support itself, it’s still taking handouts and in the diaper phase. let’s talk about truisms when you’ve got history to back it up.

      • just
        just
        November 7, 2014, 6:04 am

        ivri– what you are writing is not so much ‘banal’ as it is the rantings of an extremist colonialist. that you even consider it ‘banal’ is proof of this.
        it’s not ‘foretold’ that you will have Jerusalem– it’s illegal.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 10:31 am

        Gosh, this is the second comment in as many days from “ivri” in which he worries about Jews being “normalized”. What’s with this guy?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 5:21 pm

        “Let`s be honest about it (even if not politically correct) – there is indeed a deep desire and a concrete plan to make Jerusalem the capital of the (only) Jewish State “

        Is that why Jerusalem was not a demand made when Israel was made a “state”?

        BTW, a “concrete plan” to do something illegal or criminal is called a “conspiracy”, “ivri”

        So you won’t object if people say there is a Jewish conspiracy to take over Jerusalem? No, come to think of it, you probably wouldn’t. After all mills need grist, and anti-semitism is yours.

      • Mayhem
        Mayhem
        November 8, 2014, 8:38 am

        Jerusalem is a holy city and an arab city, in palestine. it was built by arabs, muslim arabs, christian arabs and jewish arabs. it is in the middle east, not europe

        Robbins is waving her black Arabist flag – the way she speaks she could be representing ISIS.

        Hypocritically she is not exhorting Turkey to give Smyrna back to the Greeks and saying nothing about muslim arabs, muslim turks, muslim africans who are taking over Europe in their mushrooming anti-Western enclaves.

        Jerusalem must not be a divided city. Under Arab domination the different religions who live there have never been free to practice their religions as they are today.

        And by the way there are Arab Jews in this world but no Jewish Arabs.

      • annie
        annie
        November 8, 2014, 10:06 am

        there are Arab Jews in this world but no Jewish Arabs. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/11/government-transform-jerusalem/comment-page-1#comment-721252

        what? please explain to us the logic behind this allegation.

      • just
        just
        November 8, 2014, 10:31 am

        “And by the way there are Arab Jews in this world but no Jewish Arabs.”

        are you one of the cretins that denies the existence of historic Palestine and the Palestinian people, too?

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 8, 2014, 12:36 pm

        “… no Jewish Arabs”

        Mayhem has never encountered a Jew from Lebanon. For most of these to be told by Mayhem that they are not Arab, is to run the risk of having his eyes gauged out. A very close family friend is a Lebanese Jew that’s more Arab than I am. His ancestors were of the Judaic faith so he is very religiously Jewish, but very much an Arab in every sense of the word.

        About the Judaized Arabs before Islam, from Wiki:

        “Judaized Arabs
        In about 400 CE, Himyarite King tubba Abu Karib As’ad Kamil (385-420 CE), a convert to Judaism, led military expeditions into central Arabia and expanded his empire to encompass most of the Arabian Peninsula. His army had marched north to battle the Aksumites who had been fighting for control of Yemen for a hundred years. The Aksumites were only expelled from the region when the newly-Jewish king rallied Jews together from all over Arabia, with pagan allies. The relationship between the Himyarite Kings and the polytheistic Arab tribes strengthened when, under the royal permission of Tubba’ Abu Karib As’ad, Qusai ibn Kilab (400–480 CE) reconstructed the Ka’aba from a state of decay, and had the Arab al-Kahinan (Cohanim) build their houses around it. Qusai ibn Kilab was the great-great- grandfather of Shaiba ibn Hashim (Abdul-Mutallib, who had a Jewish wife). Shaiba ibn Hashim was fifth in the line of descent to Muhammad, and attained supreme power at Mecca. Qusai ibn Kilab is among the ancestors of Sahaba and the progenitor of the Banu Quraish. When Qusai came of age, a man from the tribe of Banu Khuza’a named Hulail (Hillel) was the trustee of the Kaaba, and the Na’sa (Nasi)—authorized to calculate the calendar. Qusai married his daughter and, according to Hulail’s will, obtained Hulail’s rights to the Ka’aba. Hulail, according to Arabian tradition was a member of the Banu Jurhum. Banu Jurhum was a sub-group of the Banu Qahtani from whom the Himyarites originally descend.

        Around 455 CE, the last Himyarite King is born, Zur’ah Yusuf Ibn Tuban As’ad Abu Kaleb Dhu Nuwas or Dhu Nuwas. He died in 510. His zeal for Judaism brought about his fall. Having heard of the persecutions of Jews by Byzantine emperors, Dhu Nuwas retaliated by putting to death some Byzantine merchants who were traveling on business through Himyara. He didn’t simply kill them with hanging—he burned them in large pits—earning him the title “King of the burning pit”.

        These killings destroyed the trade of Yemen with Europe and involved Dhu Nuwas in a war with the heathen King Aidug, whose commercial interests were injured by these killings. Dhu Nuwas was defeated, then he made war against the Christian city Najran in Yemen, which was a dependency of his kingdom. After its surrender, he offered the citizens the alternative of embracing Judaism, under coercion, or being put to death. As they refused to renounce their faith, he executed their chief, Harith ibn Kaleb, and three hundred and forty chosen men. Many scholars suspect that the Hamyarite Kings, in their display of violent recruitment, lend the greatest weight to any explanation of “why contemporary Jews do not proselytize”—in fact Contemporary Judaism actively discourages conversion and converts even after conversions have occurred.

        Rise of Islam
        Four-hundred ninety years (70×7) years had passed from the destruction of Bar Kochba’s armies until the year 622 CE. Bar Kochba was a failed Messiah and now, according to Daniel, “would come the true warrior Messiah”. “A warrior with ‘the helmet of deliverance on His head’ and clad in armor”. “He will don garments of vengeance (as his) clothing and will put on a cloak of zealousness”. “He will fight the battle of Gog ha-Magog and against the army of Armilos (Heraclius)”. Most of the Jewish tribes of Arabia were on alert for a new Messiah—anxious to usher his arrival. This is in agreement with Islamic sources which state that the coming of the Final Prophet, Mohammed, was predicted in both the Torah and Bible and other sacred scriptures, and as forefold by prophets and messengers of God. With this knowledge in divinely revealed books, the Jewish tribes of Arabia were aware that soon a new divinely-appointed leader would arise in Arabia and that he would usher in a new era.

        The Jewish tribes played a significant role during the rise of Islam. Mohammed had many contacts with Jewish tribes, both urban and nomadic, and apparently was influenced by Judaism, as his early teachings seems to borrow from Jewish tradition. Mohammed could neither write nor read, and history attests to this fact;[16] so it is highly questionable to assert he borrowed from Jewish writings. However, when the Jews began to distance themselves from Mohammed, not recognizing him as a prophet, he started to minimize the Jewish influence on Islam, shifting the direction of prayers from Jerusalem to Mecca, making Friday a holy day, and shifting from the Jewish dietary laws, although the eating of pork has always been strongly prohibited in both religions, which contradicts the suggestion that he aimed to only oppose them. It is noteworthy to mention that the holy day of Friday was never considered holy in the sense it is to Jews. And although Islamic and Jewish dietary laws share many similarities, the two sets of rules are not identical nor equal. The shift of the prayer direction from Jerusalem to Mecca can be viewed from a religious perspective.as a divine test from Allah to distinguish the true believers that followed the Prophet Mohammed, from those who would turn their back on the Prophet of Allah. (Quran 2:143).

        In 622 CE, Mohammed, hoping to capitalize on Jewish-Arab despondency at successive military defeats, abandonment by Persian Jews, loss of Jerusalem, the murder of the Exilarch Nehemiah ben Hushiel, and the renewed opposition of the Banu Quraish, set out for Taif. Mohammed worked hard to turn the hearts of the Jewish-Arabian and Pagan tribes from the Jewish prophesies and Pagan beliefs respectively, hoping thatt the Jewish Arab tribes waiting for redemption at the hands of a Messiah would receive him well. But when Mohammed arrived in Taif, and called upon the Jewish tribes to hear his teachings, he was rejected.

        In late 622 CE, Shallum ben Hushiel [18] went to visit Mohammed in Medina, and offered his submission (desiring conversion to Islam). With the submission of an Exilarch, Mohammed found resistance to submission, by some Judaized Arab tribes, begin to wane.

        Some of these tribes, or some of their members, were conquered and converted to Islam, some lived as crypto-Jews, while others remained Jews living among Muslims though protected by the Constitution of Medina. Other tribes, who still resisted conversion, were banished or put to the sword.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_tribes_of_Arabia

      • Mayhem
        Mayhem
        November 8, 2014, 8:01 pm

        For some perspective about terminology refer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Jews, where we see the term   denoting Jews living in the Arab World.

        Some Jews might have referred to themselves as ‘Arab’, but ‘others may regard ‘Arab Jews’ as simply shorthand for ‘Jews of Arab lands’ or ‘Arabic-speaking Jews’, and identify as ‘Arab Jews’ while definitely not regarding themselves as ‘Arabs’.

        “The principal argument against the term “Arab Jews”,[by whom?] particularly among Jewish communities descended from Arab lands, is that Jews constitute a diaspora and ethnic group, not simply a “religious” group, and that use of the term “Arab” suggests otherwise.”

      • annie
        annie
        November 8, 2014, 10:43 pm

        that quote, the part where it says “[by whom?]” if you click on it it goes here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Unsupported_attributions
        (their bold)

        Unsupported attributions

        … some people say, many scholars state, it is believed/regarded, many are of the opinion, most feel, experts declare, it is often reported, it is widely thought, research has shown, science says, it is often said …

        Weasel words.svg

        Weasel words are words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated. A common form of weasel wording is through vague attribution, where a statement is dressed with authority, yet has no substantial basis. Phrases such as those above present the appearance of support for statements but can deny the reader the opportunity to assess the source of the viewpoint. They may disguise a biased view. Claims about what people say, think, feel, or believe, and what has been shown, demonstrated, or proved should be clearly attributed.[4]

        However, the examples given above are not automatically weasel words, as they may also be used in the lead section of an article or in a topic sentence of a paragraph, where the article body or the rest of the paragraph supplies attribution. Likewise, views which are properly attributed to a reliable source may use similar expressions if they accurately represent the opinions of the source. Reliable sources may analyze and interpret, but we, as editors, cannot do so ourselves, since that would be original research or would violate the neutral point of view. Equally, editorial irony and damning with faint praise have no place in Wikipedia articles.

        Articles including weasel words should ideally be rewritten such that they are supported by reliable sources, or they may be tagged with the {{weasel}} or {{by whom}} or similar templates so as to identify the problem to future readers (who may elect to fix the issue).

        so, regarding what it says (“examples given above are not automatically weasel words, as they may also be used in the lead section of an article or in a topic sentence of a paragraph, where the article body or the rest of the paragraph supplies attribution.“) interestingly, your quote was the opening sentence under the section titled “Criticisms of the term “Arab Jews”” but the body of the text did not supply attribution. here’s the following sentence:

        A related argument[citation needed] is that Jewish communities in Arab lands never referred to themselves as “Arab Jews” and that it is only after the exit of most Jewish communities from such lands that the term has been proposed. In fact, in traditional texts composed by Middle Eastern Jews before the modern age, the name used for “Arabs” is usually “Ishmaelites”,

        iow, your allegation is unsourced and fits the definition of “weasel words”. and interestingly it also says this:

        Proponents of the term “Arab Jews”[who?] argue that “Arab” is a linguistic and cultural rather than an ethnic, racial or religious term; that the Jews in Arab countries fully participated in that culture; and that all ethnic minorities who did so are “Arabs”.[citation needed]

        well, it is my understanding, according to arabs i know, that “”Arab” is in fact linguistic and cultural”. and ones ethnicity is determined, in part by ones culture and linguistics. i think a bunch of this wiki page is questionable. i would like to know who thinks “the term “Arab Jews”[who?] argue that “Arab” is a linguistic and cultural rather than an ethnic”? because isn’t that somewhat contradictory? and it’s unsourced. can you come up w/a better principle argument. one that’s sourced?

        from your link, sourced. the kind of scholarly information we can rely on: (my bold)

        In his book, The Arab Jews (2006), Yehouda Shenhav, an Israeli sociologist, traced the origins of the conceptualization of the Mizrahi Jews as Arab Jews. He interprets Zionism as an ideological practice with three simultaneous and symbiotic categories: “Nationality”, “Religion” and “Ethnicity”. In order to be included in the national collective they had to be “de-Arabized”. According to Shenhav, Religion distinguished between Arabs and Arab Jews, thus marking nationality among the Arab Jews.[9]

      • annie
        annie
        November 8, 2014, 10:59 pm

        Some Jews might have referred to themselves as ‘Arab’, but ‘others may regard ‘Arab Jews’ as simply shorthand for ‘Jews of Arab lands’ or ‘Arabic-speaking Jews’, and identify as ‘Arab Jews’ while definitely not regarding themselves as ‘Arabs’.

        another section of that wiki page: (my bold)

        However, the use of the term “Arab” to define Christian Copts (Egypt), Maronites (Lebanon), or Assyrians (Iraq) is controversial among those communities. Others may regard “Arab Jews” as simply shorthand for “Jews of Arab lands” or “Arabic-speaking Jews”, and identify as “Arab Jews” while definitely not regarding themselves as “Arabs”.[original research?]

        and when you click on the link for “original research?” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research

        Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase “original research” (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[1] This includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the sources.

        iow, you found an unsourced allegation you agree with and are peddling it off as a reasons why “there are …no Jewish Arabs.”

        hmm.

      • annie
        annie
        November 8, 2014, 11:08 pm

        another thing wrt “definitely not regarding themselves as “Arabs””, there are a series of videos on youtube by this guy who publishes tons of interviews with israelis on what they think, generally it paints israel in a good light. one of them is about hummus or falafel of some arab food and why it’s really israeli. so he goes to all these food stands in tel aviv where they make the food, all by arab jews, and he asked them about whether the food was stolen from arabs or something (paraphrasing) and a few of the guys, owners of the shops or the cooks or whatever jews from iraq or yemen or where ever, they say i’m not stealing it, i am arab. so wtf how can you or anyone say “identify as ‘Arab Jews’ while definitely not regarding themselves as ‘Arabs’.”?

        i’ve posted this video before on these threads. i can go find it again. but really. this is crazy. you can’t make a sweeping statement like that just because it may apply to a percentage of a community. it sounds like you just want to distance the idea of jews and arabs, permanently. what is the point of that?

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 9, 2014, 4:53 am

        Mayhem, get your head out of the sand and take a couple of minutes to read the linked Wiki article that explains how Arabs were Judaized thus making them Jewish Arabs, some by the sword. Unless of course you’re enjoying irritating Annie with your continued deliberate ignorance.

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 10, 2014, 12:22 am

        @ Mayhem /// Jerusalem is a holy city and an arab city, in palestine. it was built by arabs, muslim arabs, christian arabs and jewish arabs. it is in the middle east, not europe///

        the way she speaks she could be representing ISIS”

        Care to explain, preferably with some form of logic, how from her dialogue you reached your amazingly stupid conclusion? From what she has said, your accusation is completely nonsensical.

        “Hypocritically she is not exhorting Turkey to give Smyrna back to the Greeks”

        Neither were you til now it seems and it’s not the topic. Never the less, let’s say she did mention it and furthermore let’s say Turkey did give Smyrna back to the Greeks … would Israel then suddenly begin to adhere to the law, withdraw from all non-Israeli territories, take its stupid illegal settlers? Is that what you’re trying to say?

        ” and saying nothing about muslim arabs, muslim turks, muslim africans who are taking over Europe in their mushrooming anti-Western enclaves”

        Again off topic, but if she did say something about them, would Israel then suddenly begin to adhere to the law, withdraw from all non-Israeli territories, take its stupid illegal settlers? If that’s what you mean, you’re on a roll!!

        “Jerusalem must not be a divided city”

        It has been since the Provisional Israeli Government proclaimed Jerusalem Declared Israel-Occupied City- by Israeli Government Proclamation 12 Aug 1948

        “Under Arab domination the different religions who live there have never been free to practice their religions as they are today”

        You come here and blatantly LIE? Why? Are you trying to prove you’re a moron?

        “And by the way there are Arab Jews in this world but no Jewish Arabs”

        Jewish Arabs will be disappointed..

    • bryan
      bryan
      November 7, 2014, 4:06 am

      Ivri – “This is an integral part of the normalization of the Jewish people, which like all other nations… now have a state of its own and a capital” It is obscene to speak of normalization in the context of colonial conquest. Recent similar examples – the Boers in Transvaal, the French in Algeria and Vietnam, the British in East Africa and elsewhere – have all been abnormal and in contradiction to international law, human rights and the course of history, and have all failed in the long-term. Imperialism, colonization, occupation are simply wrong. So don’t attempt to frame this as normal; a more reasonable approach would be to concede that in the light of horrendous experiences faced by Jews, a determined minority judged that the resolution of the problem lay in attaining national status, but lacking a homeland, were forced to adopt a colonizing enterprise. Candidate locations were numerous – discussions were held about Argentina, Cyprus, Madagascar and Uganda, and there were of course many lands where Jews had lived in the past (Egypt – if we are to believe the Exodus story – Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen, Greece, Turkey, Eastern Europe) but none of these appealed to the secular agitators who foresaw that if their minority project were ever to succeed it would have to appeal to religious Jews who had an emotional and superstitious attachment to a land and a city where their religion had once briefly thrived. So they retrod the path of the medieval Crusaders who shared a similar fundamentalist belief in a right to return to a land where their religion had originated. The Crusaders of course briefly conquered the Levant by force of arms before being ejected by the indigenous peoples, but force of arms was not an option, so the Zionists entered into a Mephistophelean bargain with the British Empire, which at that time (1917) did not yet rule Palestine, and they promised American Jewish support for the war-effort, the diversion of Jewish support for Communism to Nationalism, an alternative to Jewish east European immigration into East London and future support for the British Empire in return for British approval of a colonizing process, which nevertheless was not to “prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine”.

      Despite the highly dubious origins of the project and the utter foolishness of implanting an alien culture into the heart of the Middle East, which would inevitably arouse hostility, the State of Israel was created, and like any illegitimate child has a right to life. However despite your claim that given Jewish history the capital cannot but be Jerusalem there was a choice – just as Brazil chose Brazilia rather than Rio De Janeiro, the USA Washington rather than New York, and the Australians chose Canberra rather than Sydney or Melbourne (all far more normal countries than Israel). Had the Israelis selected Tel Aviv as their capital we can be sure that a happier, healthier, more secular society would have evolved, and one less prone to Messianism, paranoia and Jerusalem syndrome. Tel Aviv as capital would also of course have facilitated a peaceful resolution of the conflict, had anyone wanted such an outcome.

      • just
        just
        November 7, 2014, 4:46 am

        thanks, bryan.

      • ivri
        ivri
        November 7, 2014, 5:20 am

        I read with interest, Bryan, the analogies you use but the problem is they don`t apply – the Jewish saga is unique in many ways. For instance, all the colonialist examples you give are about citizens of another country who followed their army conquests in settling away from their natural home country and were a very small minority in their new place with the indigenous people by and large used as personal servants or hard-labor workers for the benefit of a tiny foreign elite. Nothing of the kind applies to the Israel scene and there are many other issues, historical, religious, political and national – too many to elaborate on -that differentiate the Israel saga.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 1:12 pm

        “the Jewish saga is unique in many ways”

        Excuse my language, but so fucking what? The story of everybody, everygroup is unique in some way.

        But you just keep working along those ‘Jewish uniqueness’ lines “ivri”. That has always been a very advantageous position for us Jews to take. A real winner.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 7, 2014, 1:43 pm

        There is absolutely nothing special about Hebrew speakers. That point really came home to me when I arrived in Eilat and was observing the locals.

        It’s just the same grubby parameters as everyone else. And then the Bibi layer on top.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=153b6qaueSc

      • annie
        annie
        November 7, 2014, 5:16 pm

        all the colonialist examples you give are about citizens of another country who followed their army conquests in settling away from their .. home country and were a very small minority

        exactly the condition of the early european zionists. the only thing omitted from this quote of yours is the word “natural” before “home country”. so then the argument becomes that sense some long lost relatives presumably originated on this land their colonialism doesn’t qualify as colonialism? that’s crazy ivri. there’s no clause in the definition of colonialism that disqualifies the early zionist movement (many who self identified as being jewish colonialists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Jewish_Colonization_Association) based on some 2000 year old gap in their presumed residency status.

        a very small minority in their new place with the indigenous people by and large used as personal servants or hard-labor workers for the benefit of a tiny foreign elite.

        do you really think this word “tiny” disqualifies the zionist movement as being colonialist in nature? because it doesn’t. no amount importing jews will change the nature of the movement.

        Nothing of the kind applies to the Israel scene and there are many other issues, historical, religious, political and national – too many to elaborate on -that differentiate the Israel saga. –

        actually, everything pretty much applies. this reminds me of all the arguments we hear about israel not being apartheid because of how it differs from south africa, except everything about israel fits to a T the definition of crimes of apartheid. so the extenuating circumstances become irrelevant because of the definition of the crime itself.

        national, religious or political desires don’t erase the colonialist nature of zionism. it’s the actions that matter, not the allegations surrounding the intent of those actions.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 5:25 pm

        “national, religious or political desires don’t erase the colonialist nature of zionism. it’s the actions that matter, not the allegations surrounding the intent of those actions.”

        “ivri” calls the “unique saga” exception, and besides, Jewish, and Bible. Don’t make me pull out the “H” word!

      • bryan
        bryan
        November 8, 2014, 2:41 am

        I read with interest, Ivri, the point you make about the Zionist enterprise being unique because other colonialisms exported their national citizens from the homeland to the colonies and were a very small minority in their new place with the indigenous people by and large used as personal servants or hard-labor workers for the benefit of a tiny foreign elite. You of course entirely correct as to this point of difference, but you omit to mention another point of difference which is surely critical to the analysis. From an early point in the project, Zionists realized that too many Diaspora Jews were indifferent or even hostile to the project as contradicting God’s scattering of the “nation”. Thus long before the Holocaust decimated European Jewry it became obvious that natural immigration would never produce a Jewish majority and hence the longed for Jewish state. Thus intrinsic to the project was an urgent desire to transfer the indigenous majority to Trans-Jordan or to Iraq, an objective that had startling success during the Nakba, but continues to this day. This is yet another reason why your purported desire for “normalisation” is so incongruous.

        On this point see http://electronicintifada.net/content/zionisms-dead-end/7592 I quote: “Opinion/Editorial
        Zionism’s dead end
        Jonathan Cook
        The Electronic Intifada
        27 June 2008

        In 1895 Theodor Herzl, Zionism’s chief prophet, confided in his diary that he did not favor sharing Palestine with the natives. Better, he wrote, to “try to spirit the penniless [Palestinian] population across the border by denying it any employment in our own country … Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.”

        He was proposing a program of Palestinian emigration enforced through a policy of strict separation between Jewish immigrants and the indigenous population. In simple terms, he hoped that, once Zionist organizations had bought up large areas of Palestine and owned the main sectors of the economy, Palestinians could be made to leave by denying them rights to work the land or labor in the Jewish-run economy. His vision was one of transfer, or ethnic cleansing, through ethnic separation.

        Herzl was suggesting that two possible Zionist solutions to the problem of a Palestinian majority living in Palestine — separation and transfer — were not necessarily alternatives but rather could be mutually reinforcing. Not only that: he believed, if they were used together, the process of ethnic cleansing could be made to appear voluntary, the choice of the victims. It may be that this was both his most enduring legacy and his major innovation to settler colonialism. “

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 7, 2014, 8:29 am

      >> ivri: … there is indeed a deep desire and a concrete plan to make Jerusalem the capital of the (only) Jewish State.

      “Jewish State” is a religion-supremacist construct. The world doesn’t need supremacist states – not even (one) “Jewish State”

      >> … This is an integral part of the normalization of the Jewish people, which like all other nations … now have a state of its own and a capital …

      Jewish is not yet a bureaucratic nationality, so “Jewish State” – unlike all other nations – remains a religion-supremacist construct.

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 7, 2014, 9:52 am

      ivri ~

      Let me say that I appreciate your honesty in this post. You state very clearly how you feel about it, and I’ve got to commend you for that. You other posts smacked a bit of pussyfooting, but this one rings true; so well done.

      Now to your contention: Sure, Zionists view the situation just as you laid out. They’ve been smacked around by history and so wanted a homeland and want Jerusalem as its capitol. All of it, regardless of consequences; much in the way that young girls fall asleep at night dreaming of ponies.

      The thing is, there is zero legal basis for doing that, and Israel can only accomplish this fever dream at the point of a gun. That’s one hell of a way to accomplish “the normalization of the Jewish people,” as your astoundingly presumptuous phrase puts it.

      Now, Israel doesn’t seem to much care about being a rogue state because they’ve got the US veto at the UN wrapped around their bloody fingers, but that doesn’t really change either the legality or the morality of what you’re endorsing.

      So let’s be honest about it (even if not politically correct) — Racist Zionism cannot dictate international law, and can only win this dream by losing everything decent they claim to stand for.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 10:34 am

        It doesn’t occur to you that “ivri’s” desire for “normalization” is a cry for help? Obviously, the guy doesn’t feel like he’s ‘normal’, and wants to do something about it, the poor schmuck.
        I think he’s got a social disease!

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 4:34 pm

        I do wonder why he posts here. His posts tend to hover or they just ricochet.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 7, 2014, 4:49 pm

        You have got to feel sorry for him. The guy may be the only paid hasbara to come here and spew the propaganda. Others tried, but failed. They could not handle the experts here tell them the truth. Heh.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 5:34 pm

        “The guy may be the only paid hasbara to come here and spew the propaganda”

        Paid? Nah, I doubt it. There’s a pathetic sense of personal mission no money can buy in “ivri’s” comments.
        What fascinates me is just what makes him think his arguments, presented as they are, in his own inimitable style, will be seen as anything but, at best, erroneous, and more probably, abhorrent. What on earth gives him the idea that he has the rhetorical skill to be seen as anything other than what he is? I understand why he has to try.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 7, 2014, 1:29 pm

      “There is no need to be ashamed about it or deny it.”

      You know, there’s a word for what you are doing, but it’s not a nice one. Hard not to use it. the word is “pimping”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 9, 2014, 10:36 am

        Came back today and read the rest of the discussion, and Annie’s (and others) responses. Yup I have the right word.

    • gracie fr
      gracie fr
      November 7, 2014, 3:16 pm

      Zionism’s basic mistake in the eyes of religious extremists going back to Rabbi Kook the elder followed by Kook the younger and protégés, has been its attempt to bring Jewish Israelis back into the community of ordinary nations in the eyes of the world after 1948….one people among the peoples of the world and to grant its (Jewish) citizens legal, economic, medical and educational opportunities available to civilized democracies. After 1948, Palestinians in Israel remained trapped off stage and those in the West bank under Jordanian tutelage. But beginning in 1973, certain elements of the religious community (Gush Emunim) advocated “Torah isolationism” as they saw it essential in preserving the uniqueness of the people and the State and a legitimate means of upholding a recalcitrant stand when it came to accusations of breaches in international law.
      Today the right wing is fearful. The Jewish people remain in a situation in which formal peace with the Arabs will bring about forced “assimilation” of parts of the nation with the “Muslim Other”. The religious zealots almost see the state of war as the hand of divine supervision in order to preserve “apartness” out of reasons of moral and physical safety. The “wholeness of the People is preserved” under the guise of violent chaos, while more and more of the Land of Israel is corralled in an act of Redemption.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 14, 2014, 5:38 pm

        “But beginning in 1973, certain elements of the religious community (Gush Emunim) advocated “Torah isolationism” as they saw it essential in preserving the uniqueness of the people and the State and a legitimate means of upholding a recalcitrant stand when it came to accusations of breaches in international law. “

        Thanks, “gracie fr”! That explains a lot, and if I look into it, I think it will explain more. Thanks.

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 9, 2014, 7:24 pm

      @ ivri “Let`s be honest about it (even if not politically correct) – there is indeed a deep desire and a concrete plan to make Jerusalem the capital of the (only) Jewish State.”

      LOL. OK. Let’s be honest.
      The Jewish state is Israel.
      Israel’s sovereignty doesn’t extend to Jerusalem.
      Israel has never been recognized in non-Israeli territory held under occupation.
      Israel has only ever been recognized as the Israeli Government asked for Israel to be recognized “as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947 “.
      It is illegal for Israelis to settle in non-Israeli territory held under occupation.
      That’s honest!

      “This is an integral part of the normalization of the Jewish people, which like all other nations, after millennia of being in exile and subject to horrendous experiences, now have a state of its own and a capital – the choice of which, given Judaism and Jewish history, cannot be but Jerusalem.”

      It ISN’T normal for people to illegally settle in territories the Israeli Government itself said were OUTSIDE the state.
      Jerusalem ISN’T in Israeli territory .
      Go bitch to the Zionist Federation who demanded a separate state, prior to which Jews had the right to immigrate, gain citizenship, buy land and settle anywhere in the Jewish People’s Historic Homeland.

      ” There is no need to be ashamed about it or deny it”

      Except for the FACT that it is NOT Israeli territory, therefore ILLEGAL for Israelis, (Jewish or not) to settle in territories Israel holds under military occupation.

      A) There IS a need to be ashamed of Israel’s illegal activities and the slaughter of non-Jewish innocents in support of achieving the illegal aims of the Zionist Federation and;
      B) Your whole argument is denial

    • aiman
      aiman
      November 9, 2014, 8:30 pm

      Walid, that Wikipedia link you gladly quote hardly has a single Arab or Muslim source. Just when you couldn’t get more Orientalist…

      It was like reading a bad sensationalist History channel doco if it were an article. “Cloak of vengeance”, “Gog and Magog”, these are nothing more than old-style tabloid just like the ethnocentrism at the times who wished to present aggressive narratives as symbols of tribal strength. Also it is Zionist tribalism that looks upon Islam as derivative. I have spoken to Muslim tribalists who look upon other histories as derivative. The face that anyone would retell history in this way makes your source and judgment suspect.

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 10, 2014, 10:05 am

        Hi, Aiman, at least your read my post that was intended for Mayhem that doesn’t believe there are Jewish Arabs. You mentioned that Gog and Magog being like old style tabloids. Gog and Magog (Yajuj and Majuj) were twice mentioned in the Quran, 18: 83-98 and 21: 95-96. I’ll continue looking for sources other than Wiki for the history of Arabs that converted to Judaism. You’d be interested in the history of the grandfather of Mohammed Ibn Abdel Wahhab, the founder of the Wahhabi sect in Saudia.

        Maybe there aren’t any Jewish Arabs in your neck of the woods. These are rooted from Arabs that at one time converted to Judaism, which makes them Jewish Arabs, lots of them from Iraq too; A few years back, I read in Haaretz that there’s a small Palestinian village of crypto-Jews in Israel someplace that adhere to Jewish customs and rituals (en cachette). It’s a good thing I didn’t mention that the Quran repeatedly refers to the Jews as the “chosen” or that the Quran also says that the land was promised to the Jews by God. That would have really made me suspect.

      • aiman
        aiman
        November 10, 2014, 9:03 pm

        Walid, let’s see. I was not against the point of your post. I was against how the facts were presented. I am well aware of the scriptural basis of Gog and Magog, however alluding to a prophecy that Muhammad, warped as a warrior rather than reformer (both a Zionist and Salafist claim),, was going to vanquish them is silly and has no basis even in scripture. It is nothing more than propaganda to bolster Muhammad as a warrior to fit the clash narrative. Read the extensive notes on Gog and Magog in Muhammad Asad’s translation, including Muhammad’s dream that may signal the Mongol conquest of Baghdad, the loss of Arab political power.

        “it’s a good thing I didn’t mention that the Quran repeatedly refers to the Jews as the “chosen” or that the Quran also says that the land was promised to the Jews by God. That would have really made me suspect.”

        You’re right; it would indeed both be suspect and reveal your ignorance since the Quran offers repeated critiques of the concept of chosennes. Your other point also is based on a contrived interpretation. Again please check out Asad’s translation.

  6. just
    just
    November 6, 2014, 12:48 pm

    “Just hours after the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he would not change the status quo in Al-Aqsa Mosque, a prominent minister in his government said that Israel would build a Jewish temple in place of the mosque.

    Israeli Housing Minister Uri Ariel said that Israel cannot maintain the status quo in Al-Aqsa Mosque, which, he claims, “was built in the place of the holiest place for Israel”.”

    http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/15064-israel-to-build-temple-in-place-of-al-aqsa-minister-says

    Speaking to the Israeli Kol Berama radio station run by the Jewish extremist movement Shas, Ariel said building the Jewish temple is the paramount demand of the Torah as it is at the forefront of Jewish salvation.

    He expressed hope that the upcoming elections would change the political reality so there would be a chance to take to build the third Jewish temple, stressing that the Israeli governments have to respect the views of the public, which support the idea of building the temple.”

    • just
      just
      November 6, 2014, 12:49 pm

      oops– the link ended up in the middle of the quote where I was attempting to edit so the entire thing would not come through.

      sorry.

    • bryan
      bryan
      November 7, 2014, 4:29 am

      What form of primitive fundamentalism is this? Surely primitive Judaism once believed that God was a local tribal deity whose presence was severely circumscribed and needed to be carted around in a Tabernacle, the size of a rabbit hutch, and that this presence was restricted to the environs of a temple and required the splashing of blood as beasts of the field were mercilessly slaughtered. Mature Judaism was an entirely different matter, arguing that the Almighty was a benign god of all humanity, who could be worshiped anywhere and who required no placation by animal sacrifice and primitive ritual. Are we to believe that the state of the Jewish people is turning its back on the profound principles of modern Judaism and reverting to the primitive zealotry that briefly flourished over two thousand years ago?

      Surely the one dominant principle of civilization is the overriding need to separate the state from religion, which should be a matter of private observance, not the core of citizenry? Is this not utterly and embarrassingly retrograde, and undermining of the state’s supposed “right to exist” and be recognized by those of other religious persuasions?

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        November 7, 2014, 6:33 am

        But then I’m not sure that Uri Ariel is saying ‘we must do this because God wills it’ or ‘we must do this because, even in the absence of religious belief, it’s part of our self-assertion as a nation – and the forms of our self-assertion can’t be up to others to determine’. It’s sometimes hard to tell where religion ends and secular, Romantic ideology begins. I’m not sure that secularism cures many of the diseases that have sprung up from the soil of religion, rather than adapts their symptoms and forms to suit a new situation.

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 7, 2014, 9:39 am

        “What form of primitive fundamentalism is this?”

        Bryan, even if religion and states become separate, the folklore will always be there. I agree with you that all this brouhaha over this place by the 2 religions is hocus pocus. But what makes one religion’s voodoo more acceptable than that of the other? The site being contested was at one time a Roman temple of Jupiter, then believed to be the site of the Jewish temple twice, then a Byzantine Christian one, then the Muslims built a dome over it around 690 AD, then back to a Christian Crusader one, then back to a Muslim one followed by a succession of different groups of Muslims ending with the Ottomans and so on over a period of 1300 years.

        Provided the Jews don’t try to set the place on fire as they did a few years ago, I think they should be allowed to worship there at least on the plaza around the Dome of the Rock at designated times since “the Rock” was sacred to the Jews before it became sacred to the Muslims when they first arrived in Jerusalem in 638 AD. The “Rock” is 90 million years old and can withstand the prayers of more than one religion. It would be better to see people praying there rather than fully armed Israeli soldiers pushing people around. Jews have no interest in the al-Aqsa Mosque other than for fanatics wishing its disappearance.

        About the Foundation Stone or “the Rock” that’s sacred to both religions that’s under the Dome:

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_Stone

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 1:21 pm

        “Are we to believe that the state of the Jewish people is turning its back on the profound principles of modern Judaism and reverting to the primitive zealotry that briefly flourished over two thousand years ago?”

        Say what, “bryan”? You mean you haven’t heard of Biblical Inerrancy? The concept that each word, no matter where in the story, stands as revealed truth? It’s very Jewish, you know. That whole narrative-through-time thing or metaphor thing is so over, old hat, nye kulturny!

      • Shmuel
        Shmuel
        November 7, 2014, 4:20 pm

        But then I’m not sure that Uri Ariel is saying ‘we must do this because God wills it’ or ‘we must do this because, even in the absence of religious belief, it’s part of our self-assertion as a nation – and the forms of our self-assertion can’t be up to others to determine’

        I’m pretty sure it’s the latter. The movement for Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount has far more to do with the idols of sovereignty, domination and national pride than a desire to commune with the divine in the place where Her presence is most felt (a somewhat dodgy theological concept in the first place). As for “God’s will”, to borrow a phrase from Aaron the Priest: “These are your gods, O Israel” (Ex. 34:4).

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 5:43 pm

        “than a desire to commune with the divine in the place where Her presence is most felt”

        Or where She will be most likely to be, or was last reported, and is more likely to feel and respond to our presence?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 7, 2014, 5:48 pm

        “The movement for Jewish prayer on the Temple Mount has far more to do with the idols of sovereignty, domination and national pride than a desire to commune with the divine in the place where Her presence is most felt”

        No! Absolutely not! It shows how sacred the Jewish religion is to them! It shows the sacrifices they will make for it. It enobles and “normalizes” a religion to be part of a State campaign of conquest or colonization! It shows how religion and politics should be combined. Besides, it’s in the Bible.

      • Shmuel
        Shmuel
        November 8, 2014, 3:40 am

        Or where She will be most likely to be, or was last reported, and is more likely to feel and respond to our presence?

        For the biblically fixated, these people are rather thick about where and how to find God and God’s favour. The general idea is expressed in all three parts of the Tanakh (Torah, Prophets, Writings), but the Psalmist summed it up nicely in chapter 131 (trans. Robert Alter):

        A song of ascents for David.
        Lord, my heart has not been haughty,
        nor have my eyes looked too high,
        nor have I striven for great things,
        nor for things too wondrous for me.

        But I have calmed and contented myself
        like a weaned babe on its mother–
        like a weaned babe I am with myself.
        Wait, O Israel, for the Lord,
        now and forevermore.

      • Shmuel
        Shmuel
        November 8, 2014, 3:49 am

        It enobles and “normalizes” a religion to be part of a State campaign of conquest or colonization!

        Or degrades and drags it into the gutter.

        It shows how religion and politics should be combined.

        Or precisely why they shouldn’t.

        Besides, it’s in the Bible.

        So is stoning adulterers. They don’t seem to be pushing that one too much (although it’s certainly in Hillel Weiss’ programme). I don’t see the Stoning Adulturers Faithful (or Institute) hand-crafting stones and training executioners.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 9, 2014, 10:41 am

        Schmuel, I guess that expresses the existential position (best foot forward, nose to the grindstone, hands across the water, upper lip stiff, you know the drill,) faced by many modren Jews. We’d never stone anybody, let alone an adulterer, but for some inexplicable reason, we love being stoned.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 9, 2014, 11:49 am

        . . . but for some inexplicable reason, we love being stoned.

        Careful, you could get shot for that.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 9, 2014, 12:22 pm

        “Careful, you could get shot for that.”

        Yes, I was sentenced to be shot at sunrise, but I never get up that early.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 14, 2014, 5:43 pm

        Okay, thanks to “gracie fr” I think that what was alarming me, an approach I could only call some kind if “Biblical inerrancy” might be the “Torah isolationism” Gush Emunim advocated.

  7. HarryLaw
    HarryLaw
    November 6, 2014, 2:23 pm

    Abbas must share part of the responsibility for Israels actions, they act with impunity because they know the Palestinian leadership are politically bankrupt, last September when the ICC Prosecutor asked the Palestinian Foreign Minister if he was prepared to sign the necessary papers [which only he or Abbas had the authority to sign] to enable a possible investigation into Israeli war crimes , he refused, to the astonishment of the Prosecutor and her staff. http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/abbas-stopped-palestinian-application-icc-1206160342

    • bryan
      bryan
      November 7, 2014, 4:53 am

      Palestinian leadership may have been feeble and divided but surely is caught between a rock and a hard place because of the fundamental asymmetry of the situation. They are faced with an international insistence that they demonstrate their suitability as a partner for peace by suppressing violent resistance, hoping thereby that a few crumbs will fall from the Israeli table. They are also caught in a vice whereby the benevolence of the USA is seen as essential if ever pressure is to be placed on Israel to meaningfully engage in the peace process. Reference to the ICC is just about the last shot in the Palestinian locker, bar a lengthy and uncertain transformation of the dynamics via BDS. It appears that the Palestinian leadership have been under huge pressure from the unholy trinity of Israel, Europe and America to hold fire on the ICC, at least until after the US mid-terms and after exhaustion of an appeal to the UN to impose a deadline on Israeli occupation before its 50th anniversary is achieved. Yes “the Palestinian leadership are politically bankrupt” but not because of their spendthrift ways, but because the dealer has dealt them no other high cards – retaining your Queen of Hearts until later in the play is therefore very tempting: it can be used only once.

      • just
        just
        November 7, 2014, 5:55 am

        +1.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 10:12 am

        + 2

    • jon s
      jon s
      November 12, 2014, 5:09 pm

      The Psalmist (psalm 121) is saying that salvation is not to be found on any mountain (including the Temple Mount…)

      …I shall raise my eyes to the mountains, from where will my help come?

      My help is from the Lord, the Maker of heaven and earth

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 14, 2014, 5:46 pm

        “Jon s”, your buddy Eso Einai really needs to visit the wailing Wahl!

  8. HarryLaw
    HarryLaw
    November 6, 2014, 4:09 pm

    ICC Prosecutor said Abbas must sign on to membership of ICC before she can open an investigation, http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.613385 What is Abbas waiting for?

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 7, 2014, 6:19 pm

      HarryLaw ~

      That question has been burning a hole in my pocket ever since reading that other post here on MW regarding the Chickensh!t comment. If the Israelis are only pretending to pursue a two state solution and know it, and if the Americans know that the Israelis aren’t really serious about the two state solution, and know that, too — what about the Palestinians? Why in the world would THEY pretend to believe that the Israelis and the Americans still are really interested in a two state solution?

      That’s what I can’t for the life of me figure out . . .

      • bilal a
        bilal a
        November 7, 2014, 7:17 pm

        I hate to admit it but I suspect there is some truth to the orientalist claim that arab elites act tribally, that is they maximize the welfare of their extended family units, and have no feeling of common cause with their co-ethnics, co-religionists. Even the geography of arabia testifies this. Where else do you have a country named after a family.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 9:31 pm

        Where else do you have a country named after a family.

        How about America? Amerigo Vespucci .

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 9, 2014, 7:37 pm

      @ HarryLaw “What is Abbas waiting for?”

      It is an incredibly long and drawn out process. Like any court case, get it wrong by one word, spelling error, error in punctuation or present at the wrong time with unfavorable justices serving and it will be set back.

      On matters like this tho, it will not be set back by days or weeks or months or years, but decades. Remember, the Zionists and their legal teams have had over a century of practice at keeping the legal ball in the air and while the legal ball is still in the air, the Jewish state will continue to illegally settle, illegally acquire more territory, demand more and more and more.

    • jon s
      jon s
      November 16, 2014, 6:44 am

      Right, Mooser, my buddy Eso Einai. You’re embarrassing yourself.

  9. seafoid
    seafoid
    November 6, 2014, 4:12 pm

    “As long as Israeli politicians and the public will believe that there is no price to be paid for settlement expansion in terms of international relations and economic cooperation ”

    Sounds very like Wall Street Pre Lehman. Big risk buildup and zero awareness.

    Hyman Minsky was a Jew who didn’t belong in the power hierarchy and he wrote a classic paper on financial instability in the early 90s.

    http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp74.pdf

    The first theorem of the financial instability hypothesis is that the economy has financing regimes under which it is stable, and financing regimes in which it is unstable. The second theorem of the financial instability hypothesis is that over periods of prolonged prosperity, the economy transits from financial relations that make for a stable
    system to financial relations that make for an unstable system.
    In particular, over a protracted period of good times, capitalist economies tend to move from a financial structure dominated by hedge finance units to a structure in which there is
    large weight to units engaged in speculative and Ponzi finance. Furthermore, if an economy with a sizeable body of speculative financial units is in an inflationary state, and the authorities attempt to exorcise inflation by monetary constraint, then speculative units will become Ponzi units and the net worth of previously Ponzi units will quickly evaporate. Consequently, units with cash flow shortfalls will be forced to try to make
    position by selling out position. This is likely to lead to a collapse of asset values.”

    The IDF settler regime is destabilising Israel and even if Israelis have had to pay nothing to date their system will collapse. YESHA is Ponzi Judaism.

  10. just
    just
    November 7, 2014, 6:19 am

    ” Max Blumenthal retweeted
    Roland Thele @Assowaum · 14h 14 hours ago

    Pressured by right-wing pro-occupation lobby @dieLinke cancels @MaxBlumenthal & @DavidSheen at Der Bundestag ”

    https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal

    Free speech???

  11. just
    just
    November 7, 2014, 8:37 am

    “GAZA CITY (Ma’an) — Unidentified assailants targeted the homes and cars of several Fatah leaders in the Gaza Strip with explosives early Friday, officials told Ma’an.

    The explosives also targeted a platform set up to commemorate the 10th anniversary of the death of PLO Chairman and Fatah leader Yasser Arafat in al-Katiba square.

    An AFP correspondent said at least 10 explosions were heard overnight.

    There were no immediate reports of any casualties from the blasts, which were condemned by both Fatah and its rival Hamas.”

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=738248

    I smell a dirty rat/false flag op…

    cui bono?

    • Walid
      Walid
      November 7, 2014, 11:45 am

      Not necessarily, just, these guys have been pulling tricks on each other for years. Just before the latest assault on Gaza, many Hamas officials on the WB were picked up by Israeli forces and the PA didn’t appear too disturbed by it. Hamas is still very popular and probably why there won’t be Palestinian elections any time soon. Denials by both groups about the explosions don’t mean anything.

      • HarryLaw
        HarryLaw
        November 7, 2014, 12:21 pm

        During the latest war crimes against Gaza, the Israelis wanted to deport Hamas officials from the West Bank to Gaza, they called in Professor Yoram Dinstein an acknowledged expert in International law it was reported that recent discussions held at the Israeli Ministry of Justice, with the participation of top experts in international law, concluded with the decision that “deportation is not possible”, because such a step would put Israel in the dock at the International Criminal Court in the Hague. Not when you have a partner like Abbas who will do your bidding and has not, and probably will not approach the ICC.https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/15145-netanyahu-tries-to-deport-arab-jerusalemites-to-gaza

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 7, 2014, 12:48 pm

        Just, a bit more on the cui bono; The PA cops are doing Israel’s dirty work in the area that’s under Israel’s control around Hebron, picking up resistance fighters that are supposedly involved in criminal activities:

        “Hebron: Cracking down on Palestinian resistance under the pretext of criminal offenses and business interests”

        http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/hebron-cracking-down-palestinian-resistance-under-pretext-criminal-offenses-and-business-int

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 9:35 pm

        Israel’s got a sweet deal with both Hamas and Fatah to play against each other. If they could overcome their own relatively petty differences and unite against there common enemy, that would be a good thing. But Israel knows how to play the game.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      November 7, 2014, 1:48 pm

      The same thought went through my mind. The zionists have a history of false flags, and can be at the bottom of any ugly mess in that region, all while blaming others. They interfere, prod, provoke, and then oy vey, they are the victims.
      So we should keep open minds about this incident too.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 9:36 pm

        You’ve got to ask yourself who this most benefits, and then go from there.

    • Walid
      Walid
      November 7, 2014, 2:33 pm

      More on the explosions. Sparks are starting to fly between Fatah and Hamas after Fatah has openly accused members of Hamas for being behind the explosions. From when the new unit agreement between Hamas and Fatah was announced, I’ve had the feeling that it was bogus. The suspicious death of the 3 Israeli teenage settlers appear to have put an end to it.

      From al-Ahram (also being discussed on Arabia, Jazeera and everywhere):

      “Gaza bombs spark new row between Palestinian factions
      Friday 7 Nov 2014

      A series of bombs in Gaza Friday targeting the Fatah movement of Palestinian president Mahmud Abbas triggered a bitter new spat with rivals Hamas in a blow to reconciliation efforts.

      At least 10 blasts hit the homes and cars of several Fatah officials, triggering a furious response from the party which placed the blame squarely on Hamas, the de facto rulers in Gaza.

      There were no immediate reports of casualties from the early morning bombs.

      Palestinian prime minister Rami Hamdallah, who had been due to visit Gaza on Saturday with new EU foreign affairs chief Federica Mogherini, promptly cancelled his trip.”

      http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/115005/World/Region/Gaza-bombs-spark-new-row-between-Palestinian-facti.aspx

  12. seafoid
    seafoid
    November 7, 2014, 8:56 am

    the building in the picture at the top of the page doesn’t look very Israeli jewish. It has no concrete and it seems to be beautiful .

    • just
      just
      November 7, 2014, 9:09 am

      I was thinking along those same lines early this morning!

      “Agence France Presse

      OCCUPIED JERUSALEM: Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has ordered officials to demolish the homes of Palestinians in east Jerusalem who carried out attacks on Israelis, an official told AFP Friday.

      “Last night, at a consultation with security officials a number of possible measures to restore calm in Jerusalem were discussed,” the official said on condition of anonymity.

      “Among those discussed was the sealing or demolition of terrorists’ homes, this was approved,””

      Read more: http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Nov-07/276825-netanyahu-orders-jerusalem-terrorists-homes-razed-israeli-official.ashx#ixzz3IOKxPRIj
      Follow us: @DailyStarLeb on Twitter | DailyStarLeb on Facebook

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 7, 2014, 9:14 am

        They are such bastards
        And this is all Jewish , is it ?

      • just
        just
        November 7, 2014, 9:23 am

        As IF this will “restore calm”.

        More filthy violence from the Inciter- in- Chief and his terrorist cabal.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 9, 2014, 10:47 am

      “the building in the picture at the top of the page doesn’t look very Israeli jewish. It has no concrete and it seems to be beautiful .”

      It is indeed beautiful, and I love decorative tile, too. But I think some of the designs may have been copied from these gorgeous surfboards.,.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 9, 2014, 11:53 am

        Beautiful, yes, but I wouldn’t go to Jerusalem right now and shout, “Hang ten!”

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 9, 2014, 12:26 pm

        According to arutr 7 those mosques were built in 1937 after the fifth aliyah by mnigrant workers at the Tnuva factory. There were no Arabs in Palestine before the second aliyah.

  13. just
    just
    November 7, 2014, 9:36 am

    Rania Khalek interviews Dan Cohen in a chilling interview:

    “Leading Israeli lawmaker “trying to start holy war” in East Jerusalem


    DC: He’s trying to start a holy war.

    I met numerous Americans today. The vast majority, all but one settler I met today, were Americans. They all had these maniacal ideas, just fanatical in what should happen. Some of them called for straight demolition, Israeli-style with weaponized Caterpillar bulldozers, of al-Aqsa mosque.

    One of them had a Freudian slip. I said, “Okay, so you want to demolish it?” He said, “Well, we don’t want to blow it up,” which is exactly how they’ve been demolishing houses. They blew up the Qawasmeh home. The two guys who were suspected of kidnapping and killing the three Israeli settler teenagers over the summer, they blew their homes up even though they weren’t there, just to punish the families.

    RK: After talking with all these rightwing people, how do you see the environment there? Does it feel safe? You’re not Palestinian and you can probably blend in pretty well if you wanted to with the settler community. They do seem to have a lot of violent hostility. Do you think it’s going to explode into violence like it has in the recent past?

    DC: I think we’re there. Whether the settlers are going to start attacking more remains to be seen. I kind of float seamlessly throughout the Palestinian population and the Israeli population.

    Being a white American Jew, Israelis in general really take to me.

    In a very disturbing incident about a week or two weeks ago, I was in Tel Aviv and I got in a taxi and this taxi driver starts asking me the typical questions that any American Jew gets around Israelis, where he asked me, “How long have you been in Israel? What do you think of it?” And I told him that I was in Gaza. I wanted to see how he’d react.

    I told him I was in Gaza and he immediately shifts his tone and says, “I don’t like Jews who like Arabs.” I just kind of talked to him about this and then he told me that his son is in Miami in the mob and if he heard what I said, he would kill me.

    RK: What kind of mob is his son in?

    DC: He’s in the mafia. This guy is married to an Italian woman and he said his son is in the mafia.

    RK: So he’s a criminal?

    DC: Yeah, exactly. The mafia and Israel — shared values.

    RK: And he said his son would kill you?

    DC: Yeah, because I was in Gaza. Simply for that. This guy put words in my mouth that I like Arabs. I said I like Arabs and Jews and he said no. It’s so bizarre because it shows how normalized the violence and the racism is where you can get in a taxi and the guy says, “I hate you I’m going to kill you” or “my son will kill you,” and you pay your fare and be on your way and that’s that.”

    much more @ http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/rania-khalek/leading-israeli-lawmaker-trying-start-holy-war-east-jerusalem

    • 666
      666
      November 7, 2014, 12:57 pm

      sounds like a warning ……block the boat could turn ugly for the same reason

    • bilal a
      bilal a
      November 7, 2014, 2:03 pm

      this indeed is a Holy War , without the introduction of settlers: it is a war of values,globalist monopoly multicultural anti-theist capitalism versus its resistance. In this sense the anti-theists are correct. Islam is the mother of all bad ideas , that is ideas resistant to the elite religion.

      Even progressives are beginning to see the spiritual basis of the conflict, and Israel’s attack on Al Aqsa is a clear manifestation of it being the spear tip of the global managerial elite.

      ” This is precisely why the ongoing US [ anglo -israeli ] military interventions in the Islamic world are, despite the rhetoric emanating from the White House, a war against Islam. The acceptance of Western liberal values is essential for the perpetuation of capitalism and many of these individualistic values contravene some of the collectivist values found in Islam.”

      [extended family, family, anti-monopoly, anti-usury, taxation of wealth not income etc ]

      http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/11/07/revolution-in-the-united-states/

  14. RobertB
    RobertB
    November 7, 2014, 10:12 am

    Army Imposes Further Restrictions On Entry Into Al-Aqsa Mosque

    Friday November 07, 2014

    The Israeli Army and Police declared, on Thursday evening, a series of further restrictions limiting the entry of Muslim worshipers into the al-Aqsa Mosque, on Friday, including preventing all men, below the age of 30, from entering it.

    http://www.imemc.org/article/69635

    Are there any restrictions on Jewish worshipers…???

    • just
      just
      November 7, 2014, 2:13 pm

      nah.

    • Mayhem
      Mayhem
      November 8, 2014, 8:34 am

      Ignorance is bliss for RobertB.

      The Temple Mount compound, which holds the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque, is considered the third holiest site in Islam but the holiest site to Jews as the site of the two ancient Jewish temples.

      By law, under arrangements Israel instituted after capturing the area in 1967, Jews are not allowed to pray at the site.

      Israel has done an enormous amount to appease Muslims who go into apoplexy whenever Jews start asking for their democratic religious rights.

      • just
        just
        November 8, 2014, 1:38 pm

        “Israel has done an enormous amount to appease Muslims who go into apoplexy whenever Jews start asking for their democratic religious rights.”

        Mayhem– you can ask for “democratic religious rights” (whatever that means) when Israel becomes a democracy and a respectable place instead of an Occupier, Apartheid, and Genocidal State.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 8, 2014, 2:11 pm

        >> Mayhemeee: Israel has done an enormous amount to appease Muslims …

        The rapist has purchased nice clothes and make-up for his victim; he has installed a TV so she can watch movies when he’s not “with her”; and he has even lengthened her chains a bit and padded the shackles.

        But the ungrateful bitch simply won’t stop hating him. She keeps insisting that she be set free and that he be held accountable for his past and on-going acts of injustice and immorality.

        Her obvious bigotry against him makes the rapist very sad. :-(

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 10, 2014, 4:38 am

        @ Mayhem “The Temple Mount compound, which holds the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa Mosque, is considered the third holiest site in Islam but the holiest site to Jews as the site of the two ancient Jewish temples”

        Let’s see if you can spot any important LEGAL and factual differences thru the Ziocaine induced fog.

        A) The Muslim buildings ARE definitely there!

        B) The Jewish temples are NOT there and no one knows for certain they ever were.

        C) The Muslim buildings and the site are in Arab (Palestinian) territory. (UNSC res 476 – try reading it)

        D) Where the Jewish temples are alleged to have existed is in Arab (Palestinian) territory. NOT Israel!

        “By law, under arrangements Israel instituted after capturing the area in 1967, Jews are not allowed to pray at the site”

        Normal! A) Enemy states usually do not allow the nationals of their enemies entry and they often intern or evict their own citizens who’re of their enemy’s heritage on the basis that they may form a fifth column. Thye also forbid their own citizens from entering the territory of an enemy entity.

        B) It is illegal for Israelis as civilian citizens of the Occupying Power to be in occupied territories. It’s for their own safety. That’s what the GC’s are for! Not only to protect the occupied, but also to protect the citizens of the Occupying Power from the certain violent consequences of occupying another people.

        Say … Maybe you can help me by answering a simple question. What kind of nut case, evil, f^%$witted Government purposefully assists its civilians to break a law that was adopted specifically to protect ALL civilians? Furthermore what kind of evil, f^%$witted Government illegally sells land in non=state territory to its illegally settling citizens?

        “Israel has done an enormous amount to appease Muslims who go into apoplexy whenever Jews start asking for their democratic religious rights.”

        My what a cute piece of nonsense. What on earth are ISRAELI Jews democratic religious rights in non-Israeli territory?

        When Israelis make illegal demands and illegally enter non-Israeli territory the people in the Arab territory have a legal right to go into apoplexy, especially as Israel has had hundreds of UNSC resolutions giving it the opportunity to adhere to the binding Laws those resolutions reaffirm and emphasize under which it is required to KEEP ISRAELIS OUT of all non-Israeli territory held under Israeli military occupation.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 14, 2014, 5:56 pm

        “Say … Maybe you can help me by answering a simple question. What kind of nut case, evil, f^%$witted Government purposefully assists its civilians to break a law that was adopted specifically to protect ALL civilians? Furthermore what kind of evil, f^%$witted Government illegally sells land in non=state territory to its illegally settling citizens?”

        Oh talknic, don’t get so worked up! Look, really, it’s just a bunch of Jews that Israel is taking advantage of, so hey, what’s the big deal? Can’t Israel do as it likes with its own people?

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 21, 2014, 10:01 pm

        @ Mooser “Look, really, it’s just a bunch of Jews that Israel is taking advantage of, so hey, what’s the big deal? Can’t Israel do as it likes with its own people?”

        Yes, in a democrazy …. demockra…. democracy, if their own people are willing to allow it.

        However, if their own people are un-aware, they’re likely to rebel when and if they eventually find out they’ve been shafted. Who knows, maybe even start beheading the perpetraitors (sic)

  15. RobertB
    RobertB
    November 7, 2014, 11:46 am

    Israelis torturing non-Jewish children. 2014 Australian documentary film. Viewer discretion

  16. PilgrimSoul
    PilgrimSoul
    November 7, 2014, 1:12 pm

    The above interview is informative, but doesn’t really deal with the crisis of religious fanaticism that is taking over the mindset of the Israeli political class. What one sees in this interview is the familiar process, forever reiterated by US liberals, of trying to reduce delusional behavior to simple political terms with which the average US liberal can identify. But delusional behavior is not amenable to political and geopolitical language.

    Mondoweiss still refuses to try to get inside the minds of the fanatics who are trying to destroy the Al Aqsa and Dome of the Rock Mosques. Electric Intifada is doing so, however, by the simple expedient of interviewing people on the ground.

    Charles Kimball’s book WHEN RELIGION BECOMES EVIL gives five warning signs that present themselves when a religious tendency becomes evil. There’s more truth in Kimball’s psychological and religious analysis that all the political analysis of the above interview.

  17. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 7, 2014, 1:57 pm

    Thousands march in Jordan calling for end of peace treaty with the ones who want to steal all of Jerusalem, including the historical Mosque. There is no point recalling your ambassador, and trying to rationalize with the land of evil, it is better to cut them off and isolate them.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.625249

    • just
      just
      November 7, 2014, 2:13 pm

      agreed, Kay. I wish they would, and others would follow tout de suite.

      (King Hussein must be rolling in his grave…)

      • Walid
        Walid
        November 7, 2014, 2:37 pm

        The rolling must be from his apprehension that the peace treaty could be terminated; he was the coziest of the cozies with Israel. ( I don’t think that was English, sorry, RoHa)

    • Walid
      Walid
      November 7, 2014, 3:12 pm

      “King Abdullah’s Hashemite monarchy has been custodian of the sites since 1924, paying for their upkeep and deriving part of its legitimacy from the role. ” (Haaretz)

      The Hashemites actually had custody of the Jerusalem site decades before. They had ruled a good part of Arabia until 1924 and were the custodians of the 3 holy sites of Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem. That’s when the Americans and British showed them the door and put the Sauds in their place and gave them Jordan and Iraq as a consolation prize and they ended up being the custodians of only the Jerusalem site. It should be said that the Hashemites lost custody of the 2 sites in Arabia in 1924 rather than having been granted Jerusalem’s in 1924.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 9:42 pm

        Every shrine needs a good custodian.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      November 7, 2014, 4:52 pm

      Just and Walid, I think Jordan depends on US support and aid, and perhaps is unable to cut that evil off, which would result in losing that aid. The Jordanian economy is not that great.

      • just
        just
        November 7, 2014, 5:29 pm

        Considering that Jordan hosts thousands upon thousands of refugees as a result of US/Israeli disastrous and destructive war making and occupations, I don’t think that the US will cut aid because of Israel’s continued intransigence and criminal actions.

        Israel is not only playing with fire, they are fueling it.

      • just
        just
        November 7, 2014, 5:32 pm
      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 7, 2014, 9:43 pm

        Israel is not only playing with fire, they are fueling it.

        It’s. What. They. Do.

  18. just
    just
    November 7, 2014, 4:29 pm

    “JERUSALEM (Ma’an) — At least 30 Palestinians were injured on Friday after Israeli forces raided Shufat refugee camp in East Jerusalem, sparking pitched battles between police armed with guns and protestors with rocks on the street’s of Jerusalem’s most impoverished slum.

    A spokesman for the Fatah movement in the camp, Thaer Fasfous, told Ma’an that one man was shot in the head with a live bullet while more than 30 others were hit by rubber-coated steel bullets fired by Israeli soldiers, including four who had been struck in the head.

    Israeli forces’ widespread use of tear gas, canisters of which were fired at high velocity toward protesters, also left many struggling to breathe in the rally as well as in the apartments above.”

    more @ http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=738312

    ‘restoring calm’, Israeli style.

  19. just
    just
    November 7, 2014, 8:03 pm

    “In a further signal of Jordanian anger with Israel over the friction at Jerusalem’s Temple Mount, King Abdullah II reportedly cancelled Jordanian participation in a ceremony that had been scheduled for this week to mark 20 years of the Israel-Jordan peace treaty.”

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/angry-at-israel-king-of-jordan-cancels-anniversary-ceremony/

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 7, 2014, 9:46 pm

      I’m sorry, but at this point, don’t we need something a little more pointed than ceremony cancelling? I’m sure Israel is crushed.

      • just
        just
        November 8, 2014, 6:16 am

        Of course we need something more!

        We need the US to just say NO– with sanctions, a withdrawal of taxpayers money and UN veto, and a healthy dose of well broadcasted condemnation.

        Complicit people all over the globe will finally become educated quite rapidly.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 8, 2014, 9:55 am

        Remove the $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $ $.

        That’ll get their attention!

  20. just
    just
    November 8, 2014, 6:26 am

    “KAFR KANNA (Ma’an) — A young Palestinian citizen of Israel died on Saturday morning after being shot in the chest by Israeli police during an arrest raid in a village north of Nazareth.

    According to locals in the Galilee-region town of Kafr Kana in northern Israel, Khair al-Din Rouf Hamdan, 22, was shot dead after police attempted to arrest his cousin.

    Israeli police claimed in a statement that the Hamdan had been wielding a knife at the time of the incident and had attempted to stab an officer before being shot dead.”

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=738407

    video/evidence at link is more than disturbing to watch!

    “Jesus wept”

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      November 8, 2014, 11:40 am

      Just, as usual the scumbags lied about this incident, claiming their lives were in danger.
      Lying is second nature to zionists. They always resort to blatant lies, blaming the victims, and then get caught when a video appears. How many times have we seen the videos, seen the lies, but no one seems to be able to do something to hold the criminals responsible. It is almost predictable the terror nation will announce an “investigation” and it will fizzle into nothing.
      We have not seen many of these murders solved, nor seen the criminals held accountable.
      The Nakba anniversary deaths, and the many investigations into the murders of unarmed civilians, go nowhere.
      They are terrorists in uniform, wielding weapons made by the US. I hate to think my tax money goes to the land of evil.

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 11, 2014, 7:16 am

        Kay24 ” Lying is second nature to zionists.”

        “second” ? It’s first nature. 1st they lie to themselves …..

        Nothing they claim justifies their position, there is no legal basis for any of their claims on non-Israeli territory and their justifications are complete nonsense

  21. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 8, 2014, 7:03 am

    True patriots, standing up for their motherland – Israel.
    Romney and Liebermann fiercely defending the love of their lives – Chickenshit.

    Romney assault on ‘naive’ Obama headlines expat Israeli-American fete
    The former Republican candidate used the ascendant Sheldon Adelson-backed Israeli-American Council to lambaste Obama’s letter to Iran’s leader and his ‘demeaning’ policy towards Israel.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.625287

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 8, 2014, 10:01 am

      Well it’s nice to have allegiance to a foreign country, isn’t it?

      Romney just supports Israel because he thinks Jesus needs a landing strip there someday; Liebermann’s just being true-to-form: a worm.

      Which bring up the question of why are so many American politicians insufferable hacks?

      • just
        just
        November 8, 2014, 10:47 am

        because they worship at the altar of power, money, hegemony and the MIC.

        the SCOTUS helped them mightily just this year:

        “The Supreme Court on Wednesday released its decision in McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission, the blockbuster money-in-politics case of the current term. The court’s five conservative justices all agreed that the so-called aggregate limit on the amount of money a donor can give to candidates, political action committees, and political parties is unconstitutional. In a separate opinion, conservative justice Clarence Thomas went even further, calling on the court to overrule Buckley v. Valeo, the 1976 decision that concluded it was constitutional to limit contributions to candidates.

        In their dissent, the court’s four liberal justices called their colleagues’ logic “faulty” and said it “misconstrues the nature of the competing constitutional interests at stake.” The dissent continues, “Taken together with Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, today’s decision eviscerates our Nation’s campaign finance laws, leaving a remnant incapable of dealing with the grave problems of democratic legitimacy that those laws were intended to resolve.”

        The decision is a boon for wealthy donors, a potential lifeline for the weakened Democratic and Republican parties, and the latest in a series of setbacks dealt by the Roberts court to supporters of tougher campaign laws. Here’s what you need to know.”

        more: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/03/supreme-court-mccutcheon-citizens-united

        AIPAC is a foreign agent. Make no, zero, nada mistake about it.

        It’s up to us. We can’t rely on any of them to do the right thing.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 8, 2014, 11:19 am

        Horizontal and Just, agree with both. What galls me is I know, despite Obama never makes such loving statements, or defends, say an Iranian leader, or some other Arab leader, he is constantly called a Muslim and defending Muslim. It is amazing how much they try to outdo each other protecting and defending a war criminal like Chickenshit, OVER their own fellow American.
        All this to attack Obama? The gushing is embarrassing, and it seems they try to outdo each other in kissing Bibi’s ahem, ring.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 8, 2014, 11:39 am

        The sight of those rousing, jump-to-their-feet ovations for Bibi on Capital Hill are enough to make any American worth the name sick to their stomach.

        Our republic’s slowly oozing downhill, I’m afraid. What was that that Washington warned about “foreign entanglements?” He must have seen Israel coming.

      • American
        American
        November 8, 2014, 7:35 pm

        The Israeli Fifth Column—-you going to have to get rid of them to get Israel out of the US.

        http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/haim-saban-raises-34m-support-747379

        Billionaire mogul and master fundraiser Haim Saban brought the A-lists of Hollywood and tech together Thursday at the Beverly Hilton to raise $34 million for the Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces.

        Even by the standards of the always well-supported annual FIDF events, this year’s dinner raised a remarkable amount for a single fundraising event, with major support from Hollywood moguls and studios execs. Interest has run higher than in past years because of Israel’s recent struggle with Hamas terrorism in Gaza.

        A tearful Saban told the crowd of more than 1,200 attendees that he discouraged anonymous donations this year because it was important for supporters to “stand with Israel publicly, vocally and very loudly.”

        Notable donations made at the event included $10 million from Larry Ellison, co-founder and chairman of Oracle; $5 million from top Republican fundraisers Sheldon and Miriam Adelson (who received a standing ovation from the liberal Westside crowd); $5.2 million from brothers Maurice and Paul Marciano of Guess Jeans; $3.6 million from Saban and wife Cheryl; $2 million from Steve Tisch, chairman and executive vp of the New York Giants; $1 million from Leo David, founder of the Western Region of the FIDF; and $1.6 million from The Helmsley Charitable Trust. In addition, first-time attendees and donors Michael and Susan Dell gave $1.8 million to fundIMPACT! educational scholarship programs.

        Other co-chairs and supporters included Marvel Studios founder and former CEO Avi Arad, Electus founder Ben Silverman, Alan Horn and wife Cindy, Barry Meyer, Israeli billionaire Vivi Nevo, Barbra Streisand, developer and Los Angeles Police Commission president Steve Soboroff, Maker Studios CEO Ynon Kreiz, David Foster, Pamela Anderson, Chris Tucker, Jordan Farmar and Spencer Hawes.

        “This event is always one of the most inspiring and emotional evenings of the year,” said Streisand. “The soldiers of the IDF deserve our utmost respect and gratitude for all that they sacrifice to protect Israel, the only democratic state in the region.”

        The Friends of the Israeli Defense Forces are, in fact, a unique organization with chapters across the United States. Under Saban’s longtime patronage, the western region chapter’s annual fundraiser for the group has become a multimillion-dollar affair. The funds go to provide educational, cultural and recreational opportunities for serving IDF personnel, as well as to support the families of fallen soldiers and to injured veterans. The group also helps IDF members who are alone in Israel to maintain contact with their families in other countries….”

      • just
        just
        November 9, 2014, 6:45 am

        American– thanks for the list. a very significant sh*t list it is…

        I guess they couldn’t be bothered to raise money for the US armed forces or for struggling and dirt- poor families in Appalachia, Detroit, or anywhere else in the 50 states…

        (Barbra’s comment made me retch)

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 9, 2014, 12:08 pm

        Reading this makes me want to go out and buy a Barbara Steisand CD just so I can have the pleasure of tossing it out.

        Don’t have anything Marvel; I’m a DC guy.

        I don’t buy Guess Jeans.

        I don’t support the New York Giants, since football itself is pretty dumb.

        I don’t have a Dell computer, but, damn, I’ve got Java loaded on it. Anyone know of a comparable replacement?

        And, yes, there’s something sickening about this teary-eyed group of super-elite American traitors. Once again, it shows that all Israel needs is a telethon; not American tax dollars.

      • just
        just
        November 9, 2014, 1:59 pm

        They have it all…yours, mine and their tax dollars and benefactor billionaires…

        no mention of the 500+ babies, or the Palestinian and moms and dads and grands and brothers and sisters that were slaughtered.

        Born in Brooklyn, to immigrants, Barbra didn’t endure the holocaust.
        but she sure has used it to her advantage. Why? Why did she kiss Omar Sharif— was he a good “Arab”?

  22. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 8, 2014, 11:32 am

    I think the Beebs will be needing lots and lots of tissues to sob into, if this comes true:

    “Iran: Nuclear deal possible by Nov. 24
    Deputy foreign minister says Iran sees no alternative to diplomatic settlement with six world powers.
    Iran sees no alternative to a diplomatic settlement with six world powers on its nuclear program and believes both sides are resolved to reach a deal by a self-imposed November 24 deadline, its deputy foreign minister said on Saturday.

    Foreign Minister Mohammed Javad Zarif is to hold talks with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and senior European Union envoy Catherine Ashton in Oman on Sunday to try to narrow big gaps before full negotiations formally resume in Vienna on November 18.” Haaretz

    Any bets that Beebs will find some other wild accusations to start the war he badly wants with Iran?

    • Horizontal
      Horizontal
      November 8, 2014, 11:45 am

      Between Egypt, Hamas, Fatah and the US Congress, I imagine that The Beebster still has plenty of options in his bag of sh, — I mean, tricks, to scotch any deal that might bring Iran out of the diplomatic shadows.

      At the very least, he’ll make someone, somewhere, pay a price in order to keep his political cabal intact.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        November 8, 2014, 11:53 am

        Wouldn’t put it past him. I think however, once Iran has signed the agreement, and the other nations have agreed, Iran will gradually be part of the international community, which will be harder for Beebs to BS and make wild accusations. Iran will have a legitimacy that he cannot erase so easily. Iran might also have the sanctions against them gradually lifted, and that too will not be an easy thing to accept. Now if only the world would impose sanctions against the biggest trouble maker in that region. It is way overdue.

      • Horizontal
        Horizontal
        November 9, 2014, 12:11 pm

        Hope your take on Iran is accurate; it’s certainly long overdue.

        The S part of BDS would be a wonderful thing to see in action, but I think ear plugs would be needed as the whine would be incredible.

  23. just
    just
    November 8, 2014, 6:07 pm

    Great video:

    “Max Blumenthal ‏@MaxBlumenthal

    Video of my presentation at London’s SOAS on the war in Gaza and Israeli exceptionalism: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u7JWj8FMcoc&feature=youtu.be …”

    https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal

    • just
      just
      November 8, 2014, 9:18 pm

      There are ‘change agents’ wrt the false narrative of P/I, and Max floats to the top.

      An impressive man. A teller of the truth. An absolute and tireless mensch.

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