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Miserable night, bleak forecast

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On a windy and rain-soaked Manhattan night last week, a small audience gathered in an auditorium at the New School near Union Square, to find hope for Israel/Palestine.

Mitchell Plitnick, who for years has labored for a more humane American policy to Palestine, came up to New York from Washington, DC, Thursday night for a talk sponsored by his old employer, Jewish Voice for Peace, on “What Determines US Policy Towards Israel?”

Implicit in the question was the hope that there is some key to unlock the policy, and turn from the present status of Israeli domination and control.

He was not encouraging, laying out his evaluation of the status in Washington, and how, at best, things can play out.

Currently vice president of the Foundation for Middle East Peace, Plitnick visits US congressional offices, and his sense is that Israel is in no real danger of losing its solid footing: the solid footing that led to an 88-Senator letter to President Barack Obama, opposed to the US assenting to any “one-sided” UN Security Council plan to end Israeli occupation.

(Plitnick says the letter took just two days to accomplish.)

In part, this is because, though in the US and abroad, the Israeli image is tarnishing, there is no corresponding increase in esteem for the Palestinians in circles that make decisions. They have no voice or pull in Washington, and no prospect for that in the future, university student council votes notwithstanding.

Plitnick said the enmeshment of US and Israeli intelligence, defense, technology, and economy leaves little inclination for the US to effect any confrontational moves to end the occupation. (Plitnick says there are departments of the US government, State, Defense, and intelligence agencies, that benefit from the alliance with Israel since 1967.)

Additionally, the US adoption of the Israeli position that Palestine “recognize” Israel as the state of the Jewish People serves as a “poison pill” to ensure failure of any US proposal to end the occupation, he said.

One small, “subtle” change that is hopeful, he said, is that the new 10-year, $38-billion US aid package gives Congress less leverage, and the present and future US administrations, more leverage on Israel, if they make a decision to use it.

Plitnick’s talk was detailed but downbeat, with the conclusion that any resolution he can foresee, given the absolute indifference in even Arab centers of power to Palestinians, “will involve compromise of principles.”  Settlements will stay, refugees will have little acknowledgement much less any right of return, and Israeli power will be validated.

The dreary, sopping weather outside may have affected his mood, and reacting to questions he disavowed any ability to prognosticate, but he told the souls who made it to the talk, that is the best he can see happening, given the circumstances.

 

About Abba Solomon

Abba A. Solomon is the author of “The Speech, and Its Context: Jacob Blaustein's Speech ‘The Meaning of Palestine Partition to American Jews.’” His website is abbasolomon.com

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60 Responses

  1. eljay
    eljay
    November 1, 2016, 11:48 am

    … Plitnick said the enmeshment of US and Israeli intelligence, defense, technology, and economy leaves little inclination for the US to effect any confrontational moves to end the occupation. …

    Additionally, the US adoption of the Israeli position that Palestine “recognize” Israel as the state of the Jewish People serves as a “poison pill” to ensure failure of any US proposal to end the occupation, he said. …

    The United States of America – sporting a snappy-looking collar and leash – has been bought and paid for by Zio-supremacists and the so-called “Jewish State” of Israel.

    • JWalters
      JWalters
      November 1, 2016, 6:50 pm

      “United States of America – sporting a snappy-looking collar and leash”

      Spot on!

      NSA’s raw data from spying on Americans goes unfiltered to Israel. U.S. citizens are being surveilled by Israel. Israel blackmailed president Bill Clinton to shut up about settlements, so why would they not blackmail senators and congress members? Combine that will loads of money, character assassination through the controlled news media for non-compliers, and voila! a compliant America in a snappy collar and leash.

      Now we’re gearing up for Israel’s new war between the U.S. and Russia. America is living under a thinly veiled, very malicious tyranny.

  2. pabelmont
    pabelmont
    November 1, 2016, 1:44 pm

    USA’s gift of $38B may have more to do (or as much to do) with big-money power of Defence Industries, which will be paid that money. Just as the private prisons industry coerces American state governments to enact harsher laws leading to incarceration, USA’s Defence Industries coerce federal gov’t to support Israel (that and keeping the war-pot boiling in the M/E.

  3. annie
    annie
    November 1, 2016, 4:07 pm

    how depressing

    • W.Jones
      W.Jones
      November 1, 2016, 6:57 pm

      Dear Annie,

      It used to be that when I submit comments, before appearing publicly they still showed up immediately with a box saying “WAITING MODERATION”.

      Now that no longer happens. I submitted some messages days ago directly responding to what Philip Crawford wrote in another part of the website, and they still never showed up. It makes me think that alot of these message submissions are being rerouted first through a kind of black house. I heard that sometimes you have had to fish them out of the trash bin.

      Sorry to hear you had this problem and I hope you get it fixed.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 1, 2016, 8:09 pm

        +1. Getting back the “awaiting moderation” status hopefully also means getting back the edit window of five (or maybe it was ten) minutes.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 2, 2016, 5:10 am

        Alas, yes. If we had the edit function I would have been able to eliminate that dreadful solecism “for you and I”.

        But no.

        To my eternal shame, there it stands, carved in electrons, for all to see.

        I shall be cast out from polite society, and rightly so.

        I shall have to spend my last days as just another tortured soul among the contemptible cads, bounders, and tiger-stabbers of the underworld, trying desperately to redeem myself by skilful deployment of commas, but to no avail.

        I am doomed.

      • annie
        annie
        November 2, 2016, 11:16 am

        w.jones, i just searched the trash for your comments and indeed there were some there which i just cleared. please contact adam regarding the ‘waiting moderation’ feature. i don’t know if it’s temporarily gone or if the feature is not being used anymore. also, on the top of every page is a site status link, go to the most recent post by adam and mention it there. plus, i’ll ask him in an email. sorry!

        eljay, same advice for the edit feature and i’ll mention that too.

        RoHa, i edited your comment to read “you and me”.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 2, 2016, 11:26 am

        || Annie Robbins: … eljay, same advice for the edit feature … ||

        I’ll wait to see if the edit feature accompanies the return of the “awaiting moderation” status. If it doesn’t, I’ll send an e-mail to Adam (and I suspect I won’t be the only one doing so).

        || … RoHa, i edited your comment to read “you and me”. ||

        Annie, IMO you have just acquired from RoHa an eternal debt of gratitude. Milk it for all it’s worth. ;-)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 2, 2016, 1:38 pm

        .” If we had the edit function I would have been able to eliminate that dreadful solecism “for you and I”.

        Gee, that “dreadful solecism” paid off pretty good for Stevie Wonder

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        November 2, 2016, 3:47 pm

        Yeah, I think moderators are going to have to treat the Trash box as a second Inbox to fully do their job until this is resolved. If you have no idea whether your comment gets posted or even moderatorially viewed, like a roll of the dice, I don’t know how likely people are to post a lot.

      • annie
        annie
        November 2, 2016, 4:20 pm

        w.jones (and everyone), please internalize this. most of the comments are landing in trash — therefore we have to restore them from trash and then clear them a second time for publication. therefore, messages like this: “[DOUBLE POSTING IN CASE THE LAST MESSAGE WENT TO TRASH]” please don’t do that, it just give us more work to do. don’t post twice or 3 or 4 or 10 times. now that we’ve figured out where the comments are landing we’re doing our best. and since multiple people are clearing comments it means checking threads to see if something has already been cleared by another moderator. ok?

      • amigo
        amigo
        November 2, 2016, 5:01 pm

        “now that we’ve figured out where the comments are landing we’re doing our best.”Annie

        Annie I view that as progress and it is far better than where we were at this past weekend , not having a clue what was going on.I recognise that the work load of the moderators has effectively doubled and perhaps more so. Consequently I am willing to bear with what I hope will be a temporary inconvenience.

        Soldier on Annie –your efforts are most appreciated and this too will pass.

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        November 2, 2016, 6:00 pm

        OK, Annie.

        Such a weird problem.

        Typical “hacking” job.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 2, 2016, 6:14 pm

        “If you have no idea whether your comment gets posted or even moderatorially viewed, like a roll of the dice, I don’t know how likely people are to post a lot.”

        Exactly! I found I was able to offer many more comments than usual during the time comments was not functioning. There was no “roll of the dice” involved, I was sure nobody would see them.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 2, 2016, 6:56 pm

        Bless you, Annie! You have saved me, and MHughes will be able to read my comment without wincing.

        As a token of my gratitude, I shall henceforth forbear from nagging about your neglect of the shift key. Should I divagate from this stern resolve, you need only type “you and ?”, and I will be shamed and recalled to my duty.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 2, 2016, 6:58 pm

        Never did care much for Stevie Wonder.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 2, 2016, 8:28 pm

        RoHa,

        I want my bakhsheesh: I didn’t write, I didn’t even chuckle –and I did see it.
        Now forgotten, of course. You can have the negative for a candy, or a dry fig or somesuch thing.

      • annie
        annie
        November 2, 2016, 8:35 pm

        you guys are all wonderful. i was afraid we’d lost the comments altogether there for awhile. dreadful.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 2, 2016, 8:39 pm

        || Annie Robbins: you guys are all wonderful. … ||

        Right back at ya! :-)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 3, 2016, 3:11 pm

        “Such a weird problem.”

        Clouds got in our way.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 3, 2016, 3:17 pm

        “Never did care much for Stevie Wonder.”

        That’s what happens when you listen for the solecisms instead of the soul.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        November 3, 2016, 4:06 pm

        RoHa – did I just learn a new word – “divagate”? why does my spellchecker not like it?

        I’m just trying the comment function, hoping to give annie another opportunity to go dumster diving while typo fixing.

        trash talk is a most appropriate topic following the depressing post above. Not that I find it surprising as hopey-changey is not my shtick. Still, every day I hope my dire diagnosis to be proven wrong – I’ll take anywhere over nowhere anytime.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 3, 2016, 10:25 pm

        ‘did I just learn a new word – “divagate”?’

        Here’s the formal definition.

        https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/divagate

        ” why does my spellchecker not like it?”

        You’ll have to ask your spellchecker. Some spellcheckers have funny ideas.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 4, 2016, 2:07 am

        “That’s what happens when you listen for the solecisms instead of the soul.”
        I never listened long enough to catch any solecisms. As soon as I heard the soul in torment sound I turned it off.

      • pianoteacher
        pianoteacher
        November 4, 2016, 11:31 am

        @Annie I think one is my two comments is still sitting in the trash. Is this a computer error, or because that’s all its worth? :-)

      • annie
        annie
        November 4, 2016, 12:05 pm

        just did a search of trash (using your name in the search function) and there’s nothing of yours in there. try clicking on your name and reviewing your archives — maybe it was published and you missed it. as far as i know there was a time when i couldn’t even post, i kept getting that pagely notice. so i don’t think all the comments that came in during that time were archived in trash or anywhere at all.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 4, 2016, 2:14 pm

        “I never listened long enough to catch any solecisms. As soon as I heard the soul in torment sound I turned it off.”

        Of course! That’s the philosopher in you! The soul in torment is hardly a fit subject for philosophy.

        Always remember, “RoHa”: ‘No man is Long Island” and ‘Nothing in foreign affairs is human to me’.

      • pianoteacher
        pianoteacher
        November 4, 2016, 7:16 pm

        @Annie
        Thanks for looking.
        No can’t find it – it must have gone into outer space. Maybe where it belongs. :-)

  4. W.Jones
    W.Jones
    November 1, 2016, 6:54 pm

    “a talk sponsored by his old employer, Jewish Voice for Peace, on “What Determines US Policy Towards Israel?”

    So what was JVP’s and Plitnick’s answer to this question?

    The only thing mentioned in the summary that came close was:

    Plitnick said the enmeshment of US and Israeli intelligence, defense, technology, and economy leaves little inclination for the US to effect any confrontational moves to end the occupation. (Plitnick says there are departments of the US government, State, Defense, and intelligence agencies, that benefit from the alliance with Israel since 1967.)

    This answer really begs the question:

    Why did this enmeshing occur, and why is this alliance more beneficial than potential alliances with Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, the Saudis, etc., all whom disagree with the US position on the IP question and have even been in major conflict with the US over it (like the OPEC embargo)?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 2, 2016, 1:11 pm

      “Why did this enmeshing occur, and why is this alliance more beneficial than potential alliances with Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, the Saudis, etc., all whom disagree with the US position on the IP question and have even been in major conflict with the US over it (like the OPEC embargo)?”

      Because, “W Jones”, because of the most simple reason, and the best one: It is the right thing to do! (Sorry, sorry, just needed a good laugh)

  5. W.Jones
    W.Jones
    November 1, 2016, 6:58 pm

    “a talk sponsored by his old employer, Jewish Voice for Peace, on “What Determines US Policy Towards Israel?”

    So what was JVP’s and Plitnick’s answer to this question?

    The only thing mentioned in the summary that came close was:

    Plitnick said the enmeshment of US and Israeli intelligence, defense, technology, and economy leaves little inclination for the US to effect any confrontational moves to end the occupation. (Plitnick says there are departments of the US government, State, Defense, and intelligence agencies, that benefit from the alliance with Israel since 1967.)

    This answer really begs the question:

    Why did this enmeshing occur, and why is this alliance more beneficial than potential alliances with Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, the Saudis, etc., all whom disagree with the US position on the IP question and have even been in major conflict with the US over it (like the OPEC embargo)?

    If Plitnick’s emphasis was on his own past lobbying efforts, it’s quite depressing if he does not also emphasize the role of lobbyists working against him.

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 2, 2016, 12:30 am

      W.Jones Why did this enmeshing occur…”

      Because some one wanted it to.

      The Zionist Federation have had over a century honing the art of putting the people, money and influence in the right places while gathering the dirt on those it needs to comply in order to suit their cause, which has been since 1897, to colonize Palestine.

      The Zionist Movement, Jewish Agency and People’s Council, Provisional Government and the 1st illegally elected Israeli Government which was not elected under the required and promised constitution, knew full well once in the UN one only needs to secure one UNSC veto vote to ensure impunity.

      They haven’t changed their aims or tactics, the US Govt has the potential to change every 4 years. As long as Israel can keep the legal warfare ball in the air and pounding out their lies …

      ” and why is this alliance more beneficial than potential alliances with Lebanon, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, Syria, the Saudis, etc., all whom disagree with the US position on the IP question and have even been in major conflict with the US over it (like the OPEC embargo)?”

      It isn’t beneficial to anyone except the Zionist cause. The US would be far better off with Persian and a host of Arab allies. None of whom have ever invaded Israel, most of whom have endorsed the Arab Peace initiative which doesn’t threaten Israel

      Unfortunately war is big business in both the US and the Jewish State. Changing that mindset is a humongous task

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        November 2, 2016, 3:45 pm

        Good thinking here, Talknic.
        Why do you think Plitnick doesn’t talk about this if he has spent years lobbying for a change in policy?
        Shouldn’t he fully know all this by now?

        This oversight by Plitnick and JVP sounds like a major issue and topic because JVP is one of the main pro-Palestinian groups.

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 2, 2016, 8:19 pm

        Some things sometimes stare one in the face without being seen

      • W.Jones
        W.Jones
        November 2, 2016, 11:06 pm

        That sounds mysterious. Any articles on the question you would recommend?

  6. JustJessetr
    JustJessetr
    November 1, 2016, 10:22 pm

    Getting bleaker all the time. Canadian universities are clamping down on BDS.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/canadian-universities-move-to-quell-bds-activity-on-campus/

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 2, 2016, 1:52 pm

      “Getting bleaker all the time. Canadian universities are clamping down on BDS.”

      Perhaps that will bring the price of Palestinian Olive Oil down. You could give people at the co-oops a better price!

  7. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    November 2, 2016, 1:25 am

    according to zionist/israel haters, israels ‘image’ has been tarnishing in the american publics eye for over 50yrs. and before ’67 they are only too happy to point out how ‘tarnished’ israels reputation was then. in fact-they will gladly describe how tarnished the entire history of israel and zionism is/was and will be from 1917 until 2117 when balfour will be 200yrs old and jerusalem will obviously still be (barring an apocolyptic catastrophe) the capital of israel and the jewish nation. hopefully there will be a few generations of palestinians , israelis, jews, juslims and christians sharing the city (as they do now) with equal protections and the idea of jewish sovereignty being no more a ‘hotbed’ issue then first nation peoples have living in a sharing manhattan .

    maybe it seems arrogant to mw members here but it is how i see it and i have no desire to persecute arabs, palestinians or my neighbors no matter what they may identify as. if i am thought to have a ‘diseased’ mindset by some here-so be it.

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 2, 2016, 9:38 am

      || DaBakr @ November 2, 2016, 1:25 am ||

      Bravissimo! You spend the bulk of your post staunchly defending…
      – one form of religion-based supremacism;
      – one blatantly (war) criminal, intransigent and religion-supremacist state; and
      – the illegal and immoral colonization of territory stolen by that state,
      …and conclude your post with some humble victimhood. :-(

      Truly impressive.

  8. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 2, 2016, 1:51 pm

    @DaBakr
    “when balfour will be 200yrs old”

    Wow is he really that old – must be far and away the world`s oldest man.

    I wonder what he is thinking of the ZioBibliland reality and the way in which the ” homelanding
    Zionist Jews” have urinated all over his declaration. Just to remind as you no doubt choose to forget it – it makes for uncomfortable reading for Zionist as quite apart from the spirit of the Declaration it uses the dreaded words” in Palestine” !

    “His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

  9. mariapalestina
    mariapalestina
    November 2, 2016, 5:49 pm

    Truth is Balfour never suggested they have a state. Just a homeland for some Jews in Palestine, which while it was outrageous to think this was okay, he nevertheless conditioned it upon their being no threat of any kind to the people already living there. And we know how that turned out.

    Jews have homelands in many countries of the world, including the U.S., Canada, France, Germany, Australia, England, Italy, Greece, South Africa…. pretty much everywhere. We all have a homeland somewhere — though many like the Palestinians are prevented from living in theirs, but that doesn’t mean we own it at the exclusion of people who are different from us, especially when they were there first. A homeland is just a place to call home.

    • hophmi
      hophmi
      November 3, 2016, 11:11 am

      Why is it outrageous for Jews to have a homeland in Palestine? #antisemitism

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      November 4, 2016, 5:42 am

      I recommend Margaret Macmillan’s “Peacemakers”. Balfour and his boss Lloyd George were committed Christian Zionists. The reference to the rights of non-Jewish people is indeed present in the dynasty of documents that descends from Balfour, but it was from the start both insincere or only for show – the press was immediately (‘Palestine for the Jews’; Macmillan, p.428) briefed to that effect – and illogical, since there was no really presentable version of the idea of self-determination of the existing population which could be applied to it, and s-d was very much among the rights supposedly reigning in the post-war settlement. All that was said at the time.
      S-d is illogical in any event, I think, but the acuteness of the conflict between s-d and a State dedicated to immigrants was pretty flagrant. Brandeis came up with the idea that all people who were Jewish were already (as it were) Palestinian, but ‘merely imputed’ voting presence in a territory makes even less sense than the rest of it.
      It is fine for people who are Jewish to have a homeland in the sense of ‘be at home’ anywhere, and the same for everyone, but not fine for anyone to carve out a territory, to kill and take possession or to impose a disfranchised existence. We all know that.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 4, 2016, 11:17 am

        “We all know that.”

        I’m not sure that all of us do. I suspect that here are some who genuinely do not, as well as plenty who do but don’t care.

        (I still have an affinity for the Socratic view that if people really understood that what they were doing was wrong, they wouldn’t do it. Contrary to experience, l know. And Socrates is not the most encouraging example to follow. )

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 4, 2016, 12:20 pm

        || MHughes976: It is fine for people who are Jewish to have a homeland … ||

        Every person in the world who chooses to be Jewish already has a homeland, as does every person in the world who chooses to be atheist or happens to be gay.

        If a Jewish or atheist or gay person:
        – does not wish to feel at home in his homeland, that’s his choice;
        – is made to feel not at home in his homeland, that is an injustice which must be addressed through the application of justice, accountability and equality.

        Either way, neither the Jewish person nor the atheist person nor the gay person is entitled to a supplemental and (religion- / irreligion- / gender-based) supremacist “homeland” elsewhere in the world.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 4, 2016, 3:46 pm

        || eljay: … (religion- / irreligion- / gender-based) supremacist “homeland” … ||

        Correction: … (religion- / irreligion- / sexual orientation-based) supremacist “homeland” …

  10. CitizenC
    CitizenC
    November 3, 2016, 1:16 pm

    Plitnick denounced the Israel Lobby thesis as anti-Semitic, the work of “Jewish conspiracy theorists,” in Jewish Voice for Peace’s “Reframing Anti-Semitism” booklet in 2004

    His claim that the IL became powerful only in 1967 is nonsense. The IL has been a factor in US politics since before WWI. It achieved maturity in the 1940s, when it overwhelmed the US military and diplomatic establishments and secured US patronage for partition and creation of a Jewish state. That quasi-sovereign power preceded the “enmeshment of US and Israeli intelligence, defense, technology, and economy” and has been a factor in US politics and ME policy ever since.

    JVP and other elements of the Jewish left waged a multi-year campaign against Alison Weir for her advocacy of the Israel Lobby critique, above all her book, which has sold 28,000 copies. The result was the 2015 show trial for violating “anti-racism principles” which do not mention Zionism and drumming of Weir and If Americans Knew out of the US Campaign and off campus, through JVP’s influence on groups like SJP, who have denied Weir a table at their national meeting

    JVP’s charge of anti-Semitism against Miko Peled for daring to compare Jewish power to anti-Semitic stereotypes resulted in cancellations of 2 campus engagements for him, including one in San Diego by the SJP chapter, after it consulted campus JVP.

    Presenting a debate betw Plitnick and Alison Weir, or Jeff Blankfort, would have been honest and constructive. But years ago Plitnick (and Chomsky and Phyllis Bennis and Joel Beinin) all declined to debate Blankfort with the same reason, “it wouldn’t be useful.” Not useful to the Jewish left’s campaign to bury the Israel lobby critique and control the issue.

    • pianoteacher
      pianoteacher
      November 4, 2016, 7:40 pm

      I remember, about ten years or so ago, Mitchell Plitnick giving a talk where he proclaimed, “There is no such thing as the Israel lobby” while banging his hand on the table. He convinced just one person in that Auditorium – himself – and I am not even sure he managed that.

      The immense power of the Israel lobby is the big taboo in our solidarity movement. Took me years to fully realize how strong and all pervading it is. The Palestinians don’t stand a hope in hell if we don’t unite to oppose it. If anyone else is unaware (like I was) just how extensive it is, read Against Our Better Judgment, an excellent book based on research from long forgotten Zionist archives, and books that are no longer in print. The influence of the secret society, the Parushim on our government of the USA was horrifying.
      And it continues today. To take just one example, in California: a group of us, led by JVP members, worked our butts off opposing the anti BDS bill AB2844. Many visits were made to members of the state legislator, and we were told by quite a few that they were against AB2844.
      BUT
      when the vote for it came, only TWO out of 120 voted against it. (One state senator, one Assemblyman.) ALL the others, including several who were sympathetic to BDS, voted in support of the bill.
      Why?
      Clearly the Israel lobby has a very strong hold on the whole jolly lot.
      Was our work (over six months) worth it?
      Slightly – we got the wording weakened somewhat, so the bill is pretty vague now. But who won, as far as getting the bill stopped? The Israel lobby did.
      Hands down.

  11. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 3, 2016, 1:55 pm

    “It would have been just as outrageous had Balfour offered Palestine as a homeland for Catholics! ”

    Yup – or Presbyterians,Mormons,Baptists, Quakers,Buddhists etc all religious cults whose members are / were non native to the land of Palestine.Just like members of the religious cult of Judaism.

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 3, 2016, 3:03 pm

      What about atheists , are they not entitled to have their own “One and only nation state of the atheist people”.

      It could be a welcome refuge for Jewish atheists who are stripped of their Israeli citizenship because they are no longer considered real Jews.It could also be a haven for Catholics and Moslem’s gone rogue.

      Don,t happen to know where there is a Land without people for a people without land , do you.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 3, 2016, 3:36 pm

        || amigo: What about atheists , are they not entitled to have their own “One and only nation state of the atheist people”. … Don,t happen to know where there is a Land without people for a people without land , do you. ||

        It’s wherever you want it to be. Jot down the (greater) region in the Atheist Bibble [sic] and – voilà! – atheists the world over will have an Eternal Homeland to which to return.

      • amigo
        amigo
        November 3, 2016, 4:42 pm

        “It’s wherever you want it to be. Jot down the (greater) region in the Atheist Bibble [sic] and – voilà! – atheists the world over will have an Eternal Homeland to which to return. “eljay

        Will it be the Historic homeland. Do you know any revisionist historians who can conjure up a historiography that meets our needs.One problem –we can,t claim God gave it to us.We will have to stick with the “Higher Power ” angle.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        November 3, 2016, 5:59 pm

        @amigo

        No need for god or hugher power. I think we can justify it on the basis that we atheists are the only people in the world qho need a safe country to call home. We are pretty much alone in not having a.god to protect us. And obviously when their gods don’t protect them there is either a reason for that or it is moving in ways that are a mystery to lowly mankind.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        November 3, 2016, 7:23 pm

        What about Antarctica? Make the icebergs bloom?

  12. Danaa
    Danaa
    November 3, 2016, 4:24 pm

    There are people out there, on the Palestinian solidarity and pro-Palestinian side who still believe that it will somehow be possible to affect change on US policy without changing the discourse on Jewish power. These ‘some” people I am referring to are almost all jewish, and many found a cozy homes in organizations with “Jewish” in the title. that while the few voices arguing that it is not possible to do anything of substance for the palestinians without taking on The Lobby, are silenced or shunned or exiled.

    Reality however is a stern teacher, and the reality is that Palestinians will end up on the losing side big time, unless many more of us gang together to combat that nonsensical ‘anti-semitism” as a weaponized tool to silence critics. For a long time I have maintained that anti-semitism exists only as a weapon not as a reality. There are many Jewish power brokers (see for example Phil’s truly depressing cataloguing of the influence peddlers surrounding Hillary et al, which includes staunch republicans) whose job it is to see their power is maintained and is wielded to support whatever it is israel wants to do. Ergo, it is that power that needs to be combated, which means, by definition, combating the spurious charges of “anti-semitism” likely to be hurled the second Jewish power is mentioned by a non-Jewish person.

    For anyone still hopeful that somehow the jewish “community” can come around and exert pressure on israel to behave, I can only lament their likely life-long wait. not going to happen, not on any scale that matters. Ultimately, it’s all about power and money, something israel understands all too well, as do the jewish oligarchs in the US and canada, and, of course, their non-jewish brethern oligarchs, all of whom flock together in their oligarchic circles. I suspect that it will take a precipitous decline of the American empire before any change on the ground happens, and not just on the I/P front but also climate change and inequality. Which means a revolution from within the Empire and robust resistance to it without.

    The first salvo for a revolution from within was Bernie, as imperfect as he was in terms of championing of change.That’s the salvo from the left and we saw how it was crushed, both by hook and by crook. The other salvo is from the right, as embodied by Trump’s improbable rise. Another thoroughly imperfect standard bearer. he will lose, because the hillary crowd will make sure he does, if need be by the same hooks and crooks used against bernie. The next challengers will be better armed and more forewarned. In the meantime, the palestinians must wait – their suffering unrelieved.

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