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Older Jews are officially terrified of young Jews’ views of Israel

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“Big stories don’t break, they ooze,” the legendary editor Gene Roberts used to say, and a story has oozed in the last month or so that has not gotten much attention. Older Jews are now officially terrified of young Jews. Why? Because those young Jews are not persuaded of the value of the great Jewish project of the last century, Israel.

I can point to four fearful statements from conservative Zionists: Chuck Schumer, Ron Lauder, David Harris, and Daniel Gordis. Three of these men hold very powerful positions. And two of them state frankly that the young Jews are an existential threat to Israel.

Their statements underline just how much power young Jews have. They are catalyzing the crisis of Zionism inside Jewish life. And the statements prove, by the way, a truth we have long insisted on here: Israel depends for its existence on the Israel lobby, Jewish political advocacy in the United States.

Ron Lauder, the head of the World Jewish Congress, wrote a now-famous op-ed in the New York Times a week ago, saying Israel was delegitimizing itself through its failure to curb settlements and its descent into a right-wing theocracy. People got hung up on Lauder’s claim that Israel is driving young American Jews to intermarry. But his key assertion was that the alienation of American Jewish millennials is endangering Israel’s “very existence”:

Over the last decade I have visited Jewish communities in over 40 countries. Members in every one of them expressed to me their concern and anxiety about Israel’s future and its relationship to diaspora Jewry….

An increasing number of Jewish millennials — particularly in the United States — are distancing themselves from Israel because its policies contradict their values. The results are unsurprising: assimilation, alienation and a severe erosion of the global Jewish community’s affinity for the Jewish homeland.

Senator Chuck Schumer also describes these young Jews as an existential threat. In early March, he had an hour’s lunch with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, he reports, and “this was the subject because it is so important:” the disaffection of young Americans from the Jewish state.

The greatest threat to Israel in the short term is Iran, we know that…. But the long term danger for Israel is something we don’t think about enough.  The young people in America do not know Israel’s story. If you look at the polling data, they don’t know what Israel has gone through, and their support for Israel is declining, in every part of the country, every age group [sic], even the evangelical young people’s support for Israel is declining.

(Schumer went on to offer various prescriptions to overcome Palestinian “publicity” and “alert the young people to the truth” — one of them, to legislate against the boycott movement as anti-semitic.)

Then this week, the American-Israeli author Daniel Gordis warned in the Jerusalem Post that if war breaks out between Iran and Israel, “progressive” American Jews won’t back Israel. With his usual condescension to Americans, Gordis blames young “universalist” Jews, including the non-Zionist group, IfNotNow, which formed after Israel’s last war/massacre, in 2014.

[T]he instinctive antipathy of American- Jewish progressives to the very idea of Jewish sovereignty… is the real reason for the lambasting of Israel by many young American Jews who spend much more time worrying about Palestinians than they do about the African-Americans or Native Americans in their own communities. Ultimately, their cause is not justice for all; their cause is an assault on Jewish sovereignty, which itself is a challenge to their universalism and their need to feel utterly comfortable as Americans.

What can be done to change that? For now, probably not very much…

Lastly, David Harris of the American Jewish Committee castigated the young for their “hostility” to Israel at a Westchester synagogue last November. A man of nearly 70 who makes upwards of half a million a year stands at a pulpit, chanting, Where did we go wrong in our homes and schools!?

Every time I hear in a Jewish meeting concerns about our children and their lack of interest in Israel, their apathy about Israel, their hostility to Israel… to me it’s extraordinarily painful, and I ask myself, Where did we go wrong? Where did we go wrong?

No, no, no, Israel is not a perfect country…. We are a permanent work in progress…

But to wait?! As someone once said to me, I will visit Israel for the first time when they achieve peace. Nuts! First of all, they’re depriving themselves of the privilege of visiting Israel. Secondly, they’re handing to the Palestinians the decision when to visit Israel, if ever.

Why? Why can’t we convey to our own children successfully– why can’t Jewish day schools and synagogues in their after-school programs convey successfully a sense of unbridled joy and pride and thrill that in our lifetimes, the prayer, l’shana haba’ah b’Yerushalayim [next year in Jerusalem], has become this year? …

What is it? What is it that allows us to ignore this extraordinary journey, the journey that Churchill once said was a journey not to be measured in years or decades, but centuries and millennia, in the extraordinary excitement of the Jewish people returning to their land and rebuilding their state and defending their state.

What is it that brings shame among some? What are we doing wrong in our homes? What are we doing wrong in our schools?

These four laments show how much power young Jews have. Non-Zionism is the Jewish version of the Florida high school gun control movement and the #MeToo movement– a new generation’s disavowal of the crimes of the fathers, and it’s panicking the establishment.

That panic set in in the last year or so among synagogues and Jewish organizations. “Israel is the single most divisive issue in the American community, pitting American Jew against American Jew,” says Eric Goldstein, CEO of the Jewish Federations of New York. “We are losing the next generation,” a rabbi warned during an encounter session among rabbis at J Street last year. Another rabbi recalled a prominent member of the synagogue pointing at the Israeli flag and saying, “What is that doing there. That should not be there!”

This panic expressed itself at the AIPAC conference earlier this month, when speaker after speaker tried to sell Israel as a progressive cause. AIPAC is worried that the defection of the young will have a direct political cost: allowing Democratic pols to cease supporting Israel.

The panic is spreading to Israeli leadership, as Chuck Schumer related of his lunch with Netanyahu. Here’s a laugh to end this story: The country’s ministry of diaspora affairs has lit on a new way to counter the boycott movement — by watering down the influence of American Jews! Noa Landau in Haaretz says Israel is mining Jews in other countries:

A committee appointed by Israel’s Diaspora Affairs minister says that there are some 60 million people around the world with an “affinity” to Judaism or Israel. The committee says that among them there are communities that could be brought to Israel and converted to Judaism. The committee’s recommendations call for reaching out to these communities and introducing them to content related to Israel and Judaism…

The Strategic Affairs Ministry would also be involved in cooperating with such communities in its battle against the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement.

Israeli government’s Diaspora ministry report on millions of people with “Jewish affinity” who might strengthen Israel’s PR efforts.

Thanks to Ofer Neiman.

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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121 Responses

  1. eljay
    eljay
    March 27, 2018, 1:43 pm

    A committee appointed by Israel’s Diaspora Affairs minister says that there are some 60 million people around the world with an “affinity” to Judaism or Israel. The committee says that among them there are communities that could be brought to Israel and converted to Judaism. …

    And they must be converted because:
    – Jewish is fundamentally a religion-based identity; and
    – Zionists want Israel to remain a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

    • festus
      festus
      March 27, 2018, 3:09 pm

      I do think this narrative about young American Jews moving away from Israel is largely not true.

      I live in Mass next to what is said to be the most Jewish town in America, Sharon, and the vast majority of young Jews there visit Israel and feel great loyalty to it. In fact (anecdotal), one young kid got killed while aiding the IDF in the West Bank and the media was all over it — claiming he was killed in Israel (not occupied or even disputed territory, but Israel) and he was killed because he was a Jew (ignoring the fact he was actively aiding an occupying military).

    • March 27, 2018, 9:00 pm

      No doubt Israel will enact a new law that allows them to convert individuals to Judaism even without their consents.

      Watch out eljay – they may have you lined up for conversion at a future date.

      • eljay
        eljay
        March 28, 2018, 7:27 am

        || LHunter: No doubt Israel will enact a new law that allows them to convert individuals to Judaism even without their consents.

        Watch out eljay – they may have you lined up for conversion at a future date. ||

        Nah, they won’t take me. Sure, I’m circumcised, but I like white bread and mayonnaise and I don’t like supremacism, not even when Jews do it.

      • Moral Jews
        Moral Jews
        March 28, 2018, 1:17 pm

        So….it will be a race between Jews and Mormons, to Baptize and Convert non-believers?
        I can see that…..
        In your bank lobby, you can choose which to convert to, and get a Kosher Toaster?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        March 28, 2018, 1:39 pm

        Moral Jew,

        it will be a race between Jews and Mormons, to Baptize and Convert

        No fair. The Mormons have the supreme advantage of being able to baptize retrospectively any number of the dead.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 28, 2018, 1:56 pm

        ” I like white bread and mayonnaise”

        Have you ever tried putting cooked bacon, lettuce and a slice tomato in between two pieces of bread-and-mayonnaise? Try it, it makes a nice change from the usual.

      • eljay
        eljay
        March 28, 2018, 2:35 pm

        || Mooser: … Have you ever tried putting cooked bacon, lettuce and a slice tomato in between two pieces of bread-and-mayonnaise? Try it, it makes a nice change from the usual. ||

        I have tried it and it is mighty tasty!  :-)

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        March 28, 2018, 8:22 pm

        Mooser, I’m shocked, shocked , that you even know of such things!

        Does your wife know that you look at non-kosher cooking websites?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 29, 2018, 4:16 pm

        “I have tried it and it is mighty tasty! :-)”

        Try it on lightly toasted sourdough bread. I did, and I’ll never sing “Carry Me Back to Old Pastrami” again.

      • eljay
        eljay
        March 29, 2018, 9:33 pm

        || Mooser: … Try it on lightly toasted sourdough bread. I did, and I’ll never sing “Carry Me Back to Old Pastrami” again. ||

        Being vegetarian, I don’t do the bacon anymore. But every now and then a tomato & cheese sandwich w/ mayonnaise on toasted rye really hits the spot.

    • dianab
      dianab
      March 28, 2018, 2:00 am

      @eljay: being Jewish is NOT fundamentally a religion-based identity; being Jewish is fundamentally an ethnicity-based identity. This is as true in Israel as it is in Jewish communities world-wide.

      • eljay
        eljay
        March 28, 2018, 8:33 am

        || dianab: @eljay: being Jewish is NOT fundamentally a religion-based identity … ||

        As far as I know, Jewish IS fundamentally a religion-based identity as it can only be acquired by:
        – undergoing a religious conversion to Judaism; or
        – being descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.

        No Judaism, no Jewish.

        But perhaps I’m mistaken and there is some other way to acquire the identity of Jewish. Please do tell.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        March 28, 2018, 9:35 am

        “Being Jewish” will always be defined in the most advantageous way for any given point in time.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 28, 2018, 11:47 am

        “being Jewish is fundamentally an ethnicity-based identity.”

        Fascinating! Especially to me as a Jew. Please tell me, what is the name of my ‘ethnicity’?

        And most important, what are the characteristics and features which distinguish this ethnicity?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 28, 2018, 12:45 pm

        “– being descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.”

        Now, that is one heck of a conversion we Jews hand out.
        A baptism, so I’ve heard, can “chill the body but not the soul” but
        giyur does cryogenics on your DNA.

      • eljay
        eljay
        March 28, 2018, 1:33 pm

        || Mooser: … Now, that is one heck of a conversion we Jews hand out. A baptism, so I’ve heard, can “chill the body but not the soul” but giyur does cryogenics on your DNA. ||

        Well, you can’t have any old person accidentally becoming a Jew merely by, say, being born in Judea, learning Hebrew and/or enjoying Jewish food and music.

      • March 28, 2018, 1:36 pm

        Really – a Morrocan Jew is the same as a Danish Jew or a Russian Jew or Ethiopian Jew ? Same food, clothing, culture, language, history etc. That’s news to me and to some Jews it would appear.

        My parents tell me how many of the European Jews who invaded Palestine in the 40s knew only a few words in Hebrew and couldn’t hold a conversation in Hebrew – some, according to my Father, became Jews when they landed in Palestine – learning the language and religious rights/rituals. He believes many were simply looking to escape Europe and start a new life in Palestine – claiming to be Jewish got them there.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        March 28, 2018, 7:57 pm

        ” being Jewish is NOT fundamentally a religion-based identity; being Jewish is fundamentally an ethnicity-based identity.”

        It seems to be both. If you are a Good Boy, a Jewish ancestor makes you Jewish regardless of your religious beliefs.

        But, as Jackdaw pointed out in reference to Molotov and Trotsky, if you are a Bad Boy, your lack of Jewish religion means you are not a Jew, regardless of your ancestry.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2018/03/appointed-republicans-desperately/#comment-911123

        (The mods don’t like me saying this. I don’t know why.)

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        March 29, 2018, 12:15 am

        RoHa,

        I just love the immortal nonsense about “ethnicity” for populations that are so diverse as Central-Asia-to-Alabama with not a single element in common that is not liturgical, not a one that they can point to.

        The definition is “born to a Jewish woman” period. The only qualification for this in plain English is “racist”. No other word works. The fact that a common race here is totally non-existent doesn’t make it anything else, it only makes the racism worse.

        So the brand new trend of unjewing beyond-the-pale persons who are born to the race as defined by the unjewing person himself is absurd beyond any words. They used to be a tad more logical, contenting themselves with casting anathemas if you were born from a Kosher lady.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 29, 2018, 4:21 pm

        Just saying, each successive generation must be converted, or it falls apart. And there’s no telling how the next generation will interpret Judaism in their lives.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 29, 2018, 7:44 pm

        ;” being Jewish is fundamentally an ethnicity-based identity. “

        And shared ethnicity obligates Jews to do what, exactly? And the fact that I have the same “ethnicity” with other Jews gives them what power over me?

        And if we call ourselves an ethnicity, what does that obligate non-Jews to do? Make it their business to see we Jews stay true to our ethnicity? They have given that job up, sorry.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      March 28, 2018, 10:15 am

      @eljay

      https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/editorial/the-jewish-mission-1.5956180?utm_term=20180327-18%3A23&utm_campaign=Haaretz+Editorial&utm_medium=email&writerAlerts=true&utm_source=smartfocus&utm_content=www.haaretz.com%2Fopinion%2Feditorial%2F1.5956180

      “The Jewish Mission”

      “The Diaspora Affairs Ministry has decided to track down Jews at every corner of the globe and bring them home at any cost. It would do better for the Zionist project if Israel had focused on the two-state solution.”
      Haaretz Editorial, Mar 28, 2018

      EXCERPT:
      “Only demographic panic rooted in fear of losing Israel’s Jewish majority — a panic that was reinforced this week by data presented by the Civil Administration about the demographic parity between Jews and Muslims between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea — could explain the Diaspora Affairs Ministry’s project to track down Jews in every corner of the globe and at any cost.

      “At a time when tens of thousands of asylum seekers who speak Hebrew and want to link their fates to that of Israel are being ceaselessly persecuted by the government, and when the rift with pluralistic Jewish movements has been steadily worsening, a body within the same government — the Diaspora Affairs Ministry — is instead preoccupied with tracking down potential candidates to join the Jewish people and immigrate to Israel. The ministry concluded that there are some 60 million people worldwide with an “affinity” to Judaism or Israel (Haaretz, March 23), and that Israel should consider a program to bring some of them here.”

      “A commission appointed by Diaspora Affairs Minister Naftali Bennett submitted its final report to the cabinet secretary Sunday. The report urges the government to map all the non-Jewish communities whose members are not entitled to immigrate under the Law of Return but that have some kind of ‘affinity’ to Israel or to Judaism.”

      “The report recommended, as a first step, exploring cooperative ventures with these communities for public diplomacy on Israel’s behalf, including the battle against the boycott, divestment and sanctions movement. Later, special work and study visas could be issued for community members.

      “The latest demographic data isn’t surprising. Supporters of the two-state solution have long warned that the only ethical and effective way to maintain Israel’s Jewish majority is to divide the land. But because the current government is working instead to annex the territories, with their residents, en route to an apartheid system, it must concoct delusional plans to import a pseudo-Jewish population. It would do better to recognize that only a two-state solution can guarantee the future of the Zionist project.”

      The above article brings to mind a discussion I had in Cairo with and elderly Palestinian gentleman who had been dispossessed of his home in Jaffa and expelled from his homeland by Jewish forces (of foreign origin) in 1948. I expressed my sympathy and support for him and his people. He smiled at me and said “we have a secret weapon that will serve us well in the long run, the wombs of our women.”

      • March 28, 2018, 1:44 pm

        How very desperate of them. No real thinking here – just panic and manic machinations from vile racists on how to maintain supremacy at all costs.

        It’s all about winning – ends justifying the means – screw humanity and Judaism in the process.

    • Boris
      Boris
      March 28, 2018, 2:30 pm

      Jewish is fundamentally a religion-based identity

      This is my favorite subject and I had provided very good arguments earlier.

      However, Monda does not publish my comments any more. Maybe it is because I was indeed very convincing.

      • eljay
        eljay
        March 28, 2018, 3:14 pm

        || Boris: … This is my favorite subject and I had provided very good arguments earlier. … ||

        You provided arguments, sure. So does Stefan Groever.

        || … However, Monda does not publish my comments any more. Maybe it is because I was indeed very convincing. ||

        Or maybe it’s because you were indeed very you.  ;-)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 28, 2018, 6:50 pm

        “This is my favorite subject and I had provided very good arguments earlier.”

        Oh, don’t worry, we can always look up a copy of the Nuremberg laws online.

  2. amigo
    amigo
    March 27, 2018, 2:04 pm

    Why not have all Israeli Jews convert to Catholicism and change the Law of return to grant Citizenship to all Catholics in the diaspora.There are some 1.5 billion of them.Israel will no longer need to be concerned about being surrounded by 1.3 billion Muslims who want to throw all Jews into the sea .

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 27, 2018, 3:11 pm

      The African diaspora seems like a natural place to look for potential Israelis.

      • gamal
        gamal
        March 29, 2018, 6:29 pm

        “The African diaspora”

        hey Mooser, and Mr. Ofir if you listening, you remember before the internet age how working scum people were also often masters of an art, i turned hay with guys who could do stuff like this easy relaxed no big deal, everybody giggles, an easy mastery Seamus Ennis imagine if Jimmy Hendricks was born in Clare and found a bladder, an organ under your arm….

        https://youtu.be/GrXsmfmqcFA

    • Pdxmuscle@comcast.net
      [email protected]
      March 27, 2018, 3:11 pm

      Or they can just have the same mindset and convert to Islam just for a day. Then they would see that religious fanatics in Arab countries are just like they were the day before. They could go back to Judaism and know that ISIL and ISreaL are far closer in belief than they imagined. Perhaps that might even help peace.

    • March 27, 2018, 9:03 pm

      Why not just convert to Islam? Shop local

  3. Steve Grover
    Steve Grover
    March 27, 2018, 3:04 pm

    Hey Phil,
    Do you jerk off when you fantasize about young Jews hating Israel like you do?

    Happy Pesach to you and Harriet Malinowitz.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 27, 2018, 3:14 pm

      Such a gantseh mentsh, that “Grober”.

    • March 27, 2018, 9:16 pm

      Groveler – Wow – in an earlier post you mention Phil’s ass twice and now you write about Phil jerking off- come out of the closet already – proclaim your love of or for Phil – that shouldn’t be too hard for a shameless twit like yourself.

      Personally I don’t think you stand a chance – Phil doesn’t fancy fools.

    • JosephA
      JosephA
      March 28, 2018, 9:35 am

      Wow! That was hot. Classy guy.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      March 28, 2018, 9:39 am

      There you go again, Groper.
      Defining Jews for the appetites of the mob.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      March 28, 2018, 10:20 am

      @Steve Grover

      Judging by your infantile comment, you see the hand writing on the wall, i.e., ZIONISM IS DOOMED!! I suggest you start taking lessons in Arabic.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 28, 2018, 12:13 pm

        Read the Book of Daniel Chapter 5
        You better take heed.

    • Brewer
      Brewer
      March 28, 2018, 8:09 pm

      Steve Grover.
      It is probably not wise to reveal the interior of a dirty little mind when one is publicly debating, purporting to possess some kind of moral righteousness. Your grubby little comment has annihilated any shred of credibility you might have possessed.

  4. Mooser
    Mooser
    March 27, 2018, 3:19 pm

    At least nobody (that I know of) has advised parents to get in a battle of will with their children over Zionism.

  5. Edward Q
    Edward Q
    March 27, 2018, 3:52 pm

    I think the solution here is to set up Vietnamese-style re-education camps for Jewish youth.

    • Emory Riddle
      Emory Riddle
      March 27, 2018, 5:28 pm

      That was what Bobby Fischer thought. I see no other possible solution.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 28, 2018, 12:50 pm

      “I think the solution here is to set up Vietnamese-style re-education camps for Jewish youth.”

      If their parents can afford it. Between the summer camps and the day schools it gets pretty costly.

      • March 28, 2018, 1:50 pm

        Mooser – Factor in cooking classes on how to make Israeli hummous and how to edit Wikipedia and the costs do get high. Although I think the latter may be provided for free and could earn you a stipend in shekels of course.

  6. guyn
    guyn
    March 27, 2018, 4:29 pm

    “the great Jewish project of the last century, Israel.”

    An abomination in the Holy Land…

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      March 28, 2018, 10:21 am

      @guyn

      Israel: Seventy years of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

      • Moral Jews
        Moral Jews
        March 28, 2018, 1:13 pm

        Well said.

      • March 28, 2018, 1:51 pm

        Seventy years of trying to pound Palestinians into submission

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        March 28, 2018, 2:07 pm

        70 years of failing.

  7. Kathleen
    Kathleen
    March 27, 2018, 7:59 pm

    What Schumerr and others who seem to be afraid of these young Jews and others who base their thinking on the facts about the conflict, is that in so many ways those young people may be more dedicated to Israel’s future (based on internationally recognized borders that have been erased) than Schumer has ever been.

    “A couple of these men state frankly that the young Jews are an existential threat to Israel.”
    Will they be trying to convince U.S. government/military to invade this population and bomb?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 27, 2018, 8:41 pm

      “Will they be trying to convince U.S. government/military to invade this population and bomb?”

      Hopefully, they will not be active in encouraging the US in its blind support of Zionism.

    • March 27, 2018, 9:21 pm

      Human rights are Israel’s existential threat

      • Kathleen
        Kathleen
        March 28, 2018, 7:37 am

        On point slogan. Would like to see Max Blumenthal walk around Jerusalem with a T shirt that said that. Film the response. On second thought would not like Max hurt by Israeli’s.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        March 28, 2018, 9:40 am

        Exactly.
        Idealism of the Youth.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      March 28, 2018, 12:42 pm

      Kathleen,

      … in so many ways those young people may be more dedicated to Israel’s future (based on internationally recognized borders that have been erased) than Schumer has ever been.

      That may be “in so many ways”, but they are just the same as Shumer and the rest of the Zionist criminals. They are trying to justify and establish forever a totally illegal presence of intruding invaders on Palestinian soil, under the pretext that the colonialist empires have “internationally recognized” their conquest, a howling crime against humanity.

      And you all who “recognize” the colonial conquest and continue to spill that propaganda all over the place, while calling yourselves “anti-Zionist” are fully complicit.

      • Kathleen
        Kathleen
        March 28, 2018, 2:08 pm

        I live on land that is drowning in blood and conquest. While I don’t agree with the deadly conquest on this land or the deadly conquest on Palestinian land. Internationally recognized borders is an established place to start while recognizing the bloody conquest.

        Recognition of that conquest and economic compensation for stolen land, homes , injury to mind and body critical.

        However the way it has gone and continues to go with illegal settlements the only lane open is one state with equal rights for all.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        March 28, 2018, 3:50 pm

        Kathleen,

        Internationally recognized borders is an established place to start while recognizing the bloody conquest

        Sure it is a good start. But it’s used as a last stop when one only blabs about the “place to start” without mentioning its criminal and illegitimate character. We’re not hearing “I don’t agree with the deadly conquest” but “get somewhat out of post-67 conquest and keep the rest” when you do that!

        Recognition of that conquest and economic compensation for stolen land, homes , injury to mind and body critical

        What exactly does “critical” mean? Does it mean, in particular, formally and reliably approved by the clear majority of the Palestinian people? No. Is the Palestinian people still around to clearly express its will, unlike the exterminated Americans? Yes. Then that “critical” is worth zilch.

        … the only lane open is one state with equal rights for all.

        “Only”? How so? It’s Palestinian land and it’s the Palestinians’ to decide. What if they say they want the intruders out?

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      March 28, 2018, 12:43 pm

      Kathleen,

      in so many ways those young people may be more dedicated to Israel’s future

      Anyone “dedicated to Israel’s future” is a deadly enemy of the Palestinian people.

      Are you aware that a war has been going on these 70 years (at least officially)?

      Don’t you think it’s time to choose sides?

      • Kathleen
        Kathleen
        March 28, 2018, 2:09 pm

        One state…

  8. ritzl
    ritzl
    March 27, 2018, 9:25 pm

    It seems that this is where the great fear of assimilation comes from. If you go outside the echo chamber, and encounter, perchance to embrace, a more universal/empathic sense of right and wrong, Israel is toast (barring some sort of major course correction or effective media campaign).

    So the preferred corrective option here is of course to shame “deviants”, never to enable moral affinity (for everyone) through supportable moral corrections.

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      March 27, 2018, 11:02 pm

      shb “…perchance to embrace, and be embraced by…”

    • JLewisDickerson
      JLewisDickerson
      March 27, 2018, 11:12 pm

      “Everyone Loves Israel Now” – Foreign Policy
      http://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/26/why-everyone-loves-israel-now/
      1 day ago – Perhaps the most surprising thing about the Arab world today is how relatively uncontroversial Israel has become. During 11 days of travel through Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, we heard the Israeli-Palestinian conflict mentioned only once. This is a dramatic shift from decades during which hostility to Israel …

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        March 28, 2018, 8:49 am

        Thanks, JLD, very interesting.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 28, 2018, 7:01 pm

      “So the preferred corrective option here is of course to shame “deviants”

      I am, frankly, very surprised, that writing non-Zionist kids out of the will hasn’t been suggested yet. No Zionism, no inheritance.
      Oh well, I guess it isn’t quite as personal as out-marriage or out-conversion. Or maybe that threat is not as powerful after 2008.

  9. March 27, 2018, 10:19 pm

    Why is it that these old Zionist blowhards don’t get it – young jews are becoming aware of the truth about apartheid Israel and don’t want to support or be associated with it – why can’t they get that?

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      March 28, 2018, 9:41 am

      They do get it. They just can’t win a debate on it…so they ignore the point.

      • March 28, 2018, 2:01 pm

        Let’s get them debating – they’re ready to spill the beans just like the vile ayelet shaked did in admitting apartheid is the answer to the Palestinian problem

  10. RoHa
    RoHa
    March 28, 2018, 12:10 am

    “Ultimately, their cause is not justice for all; their cause is an assault on Jewish sovereignty, which itself is a challenge to their universalism”

    If Jewish sovereignty is, in some way, incompatible with universalism, does this not suggest that either Jewish sovereignty or universalism is unjust? And if universalism is just, then the cause of the young people is justice. So we need an argument to show that universalism is unjust in order to conclude that the cause is not justice.

    “and their need to feel utterly comfortable as Americans.”

    He wants them to feel uncomfortable? Why?

    • Edward Q
      Edward Q
      March 28, 2018, 12:54 pm

      Also– does this imply Gordis is not comfortable being American? If Gordis is not universalist then what are his views of other groups?

  11. RoHa
    RoHa
    March 28, 2018, 12:12 am

    “What is it that brings shame among some? What are we doing wrong in our homes? What are we doing wrong in our schools?”

    First face up to what you did wrong in Palestine.

    • Cazador
      Cazador
      March 28, 2018, 9:29 am

      RoHa,

      «First face up to what you did wrong in Palestine.»

      I TOTALLY agree with you, but I wonder how much information, real factual information, is taken seriously, humanly, fairly about the WRONGS DONE TO PALESTINE. IT’S BEEN GOING ON SINCE 1945, SINCE THE ARRIVAL OF THE FIRST ZIONISTS FROM EUROPE, ARMED AND TRAINED BY THE BRITISH TO FIGHT THE NAZIS ALONG THE BRITISH! AND THEN DECIDING TO TAKE THE PALESTINE LAND BY FORCE WITH THE SAID WEAPONS, EVEN IF IT NEEDED TO ATTACK THE BRITISH AND THEIR PALESTINE MANDATE.

      If you haven’t seen it, watch the 6-hour, 4-episode TV series, The Promise, by a Jew, Peter Kosminsky, a collaborator to the BBC, who spent 7 years of research and interviews in order to make the series strictly based on facts.

    • March 29, 2018, 11:57 pm

      Hear hear

  12. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    March 28, 2018, 1:00 am

    Jewish otherness needs a couple of things to work. Loyalty, elite competence, a benefit to members and separate rituals for starters. Most of all it needs predictibility and stability. It would be hard for Jews to feel good about being Jewish if other Jews started doing weird stuff that drew outside attention. This would put loyalty into question.

    Judaism by its nature is all for one and one for all. So it needs stability.

    Israel is Fuck You. Fuck You needs weapons and lobbyists. Fuck You is inherently unstable because the goal is always some distance away in the future.

    When half of Judaism is running Fuck You and the other half is running Jewish otherness it has to break down.

    Back in the 80s it was different because the information about Israel was tightly controlled.
    Older Jews and Zionist stormtroopers do not understand social media.

  13. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    March 28, 2018, 5:19 am

    At some moment between the election of Ronald Reagan and the downing of the twin towers, the generations changed and the distance to WWII and Hitler changed from recent memory to not so recent memory. The connection that older Jewish Americans have to Israel was partially as a result of the glamorous Israel of “Exodus”, the kibbutzim and 1967, but dig a little deeper and it was very connected to Hitler. To Jews born in ’95 rather than ’55 the connection to Hitler is far more distant. Thus new paradigms of connection to Israel are needed and they are lacking.

    • annie
      annie
      March 28, 2018, 8:52 am

      between the election of Ronald Reagan and the downing of the twin towers, the generations changed

      reagan was president from 1981 to 1989. my theory, teaching king’s legacy to schoolchildren early in life.

      Although King was assassinated in 1968, legislation designating the third Monday in January—near his Jan. 15 birthday—as a legal holiday to honor him did not pass until 1983. The first year the U.S. observed the holiday was 1986, when the day fell on Jan. 20.

    • eljay
      eljay
      March 28, 2018, 12:03 pm

      || Yonah Fredman: … To Jews born in ’95 rather than ’55 the connection to Hitler is far more distant. Thus new paradigms of connection to Israel are needed and they are lacking. ||

      What is needed is for all people to connect to – and to advocate and defend – the universal and consistent application of justice, accountability and equality.

      What is not needed are “new paradigms of connection” to Jewish / “Jewish State” supremacism or to any other form of supremacism.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 28, 2018, 1:40 pm

      ” , but dig a little deeper and it was very connected to Hitler. To Jews born in ’95 rather than ’55 the connection to Hitler is far more distant.Thus new paradigms of connection to Israel are needed and they are lacking.”

      Which pretty much leaves Zionism hoping for another Hitler?

      • ritzl
        ritzl
        March 28, 2018, 1:57 pm

        And if one doesn’t present in a timely manner, they’ll make one up out of whole “new antisemitism” cloth.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        March 29, 2018, 10:39 am

        Iran fits the bill for Bibi

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      March 28, 2018, 1:52 pm

      1.3 MILLION followers1 Not even a pretense of objectivity at Facebook. What are the options?

      First they came for the Palestinians…

  14. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    March 28, 2018, 11:13 am

    @YF
    ” Thus new paradigms of connection to Israel are needed and they are lacking”
    Interesting observation = paradigms of connection to racism,apartheid , land theft,dispossession,murder,brutality,blatant breaches of international law,war crimes to name but a few.
    Lots of luck with that plan.

  15. falcon170
    falcon170
    March 28, 2018, 11:31 am

    Why would Israelis give a rats ass what young Jews in America think? You act like it’s 1950 and Israel needs all the nickels it can get from American Jews. I can assure you, Israel doesn’t need the US’s permission to kick the shit out of Iran. Hell, Saudi Arabia and Egypt would probably help.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      March 28, 2018, 11:55 am

      Whiny Israel never pays for anything.

    • amigo
      amigo
      March 28, 2018, 11:56 am

      “Why would Israelis give a rats ass what young Jews in America think? ” falcon170

      It is always advisable to read the article before responding.

    • amigo
      amigo
      March 28, 2018, 12:34 pm

      falcon 170,

      You have made 5 comments in all on MW.

      4 on March 28th 2018 and the 5th on Dec 10th 2015 –three years ago!!.

      This

      “Which international law states that Jews can’t buy land in the West Bank?” falcon 170.

      One can see why you disappeared for 3 years judging by the responses you received for that idiotic post.

      Can we assume you will disappear for 12 years this time.

      ” I can assure you, Israel doesn’t need the US’s permission to kick the shit out of Iran.” falcon 170

      I sure hope they do . I love watching the Most Most moral heroes hightailing it out of harms way with their sabra tails between their legs .Is that sweat we can see around the crotch areas .

      http://www.israelhayom.com/2012/12/10/video-of-idf-troops-fleeing-palestinian-rioters-causes-stir/

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxFsCr71u5w

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57yj6DOAaRs

      Remember Falcon 170 , it will be the revolutionary Guard your brave boys will be fighting -not Palestinians armed with stones.

      You zionist warhawks sure know how to make fools of yourselves.

      • US Citizen
        US Citizen
        March 28, 2018, 3:55 pm

        The next war that Israel initiates and incites ? All their next adversary has to do is obliterate their airport and port and Israel is done. Can’t wait to hear their victim mentality and hypocrisy, “Gee, what did we EVER do to deserve this?”, “Help, help – we need help – just look at what they did to us!”, “It’s the (fill in whatever group at the moment), it’s not our fault!”.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      March 28, 2018, 1:06 pm

      @falcon170

      It’s not a question of “…like it’s 1950 and Israel needs all the nickels it can get from American Jews.” Rather, it is patently obvious that Israel is desperate need of, but not getting a sufficient number of Jewish immigrants from the US and elsewhere – indeed, their numbers continue to plummet – and as a consequence, Jews are rapidly becoming the minority between the River and the Sea. To state the obvious, ever increasing numbers of Jewish youth around the world, including the US, are abandoning the entity known as “Israel’ and Zionism itself.

      Also, the entity known as “Israel” has no chance of “kick[ing] the shit out of Iran” without US military help, which despite Bolton, is not guaranteed and I can assure you that it is highly unlikely that Saudi Arabia or Egypt would help out. The repercussions on the “Arab street” and throughout the Muslim world would be massive and lead to the fall of leaders, including MSB. Remember, for good reason, Arabs and the Muslim world as a whole, utterly detest the entity known as “Israel.”

      • ritzl
        ritzl
        March 28, 2018, 1:59 pm

        Yeah, if Israel is so confidently self-sufficient, what’s all the fuss about the existential/non-threat (on any given day) of BDS?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 28, 2018, 1:37 pm

      Can somebody tell me how many people Israel can afford to lose in a war? Especially in a war against a much-more numerous adversary.

      It would be good to have that figured out in advance.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        March 28, 2018, 1:55 pm

        Israelis can give it but they cannot take it. I’d say 500 and 2 weeks would be the limit.
        If an enemy had a qualitative edge Israel would be lost.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        March 28, 2018, 6:29 pm

        ” I’d say 500 and 2 weeks would be the limit.”

        And naturally, the passports of all dual-nationality Israelis would be frozen, and no Israeli citizen would be allowed to leave, for the duration of the national emergency.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        March 29, 2018, 12:22 am

        Mooser,

        “Israel” can afford to lose more Americans than the US can afford.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      March 29, 2018, 10:56 am

      Israeli military leadership and IT are already on public record saying they can not win a war with Iran by themselves.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        March 29, 2018, 11:20 am

        One of the Temples was destroyed by the Persians and Israel doesn’t even have 10% of Iran’s population. Israel v Shia Islam is stupid.

      • eljay
        eljay
        March 29, 2018, 11:36 am

        || Citizen: Israeli military leadership and IT are already on public record saying they can not win a war with Iran by themselves. ||

        Who are you gonna believe: The Israeli military leadership or falcon170?

        (I wonder if Nobel Prize-winner Konrad Lorenz had any thoughts on whether falcons are as “quite intelligent” as jackdaws.)

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        March 29, 2018, 2:16 pm

        Citizen,

        Irrelevant. There is no such thing as “Israeli military by themselves”. That is the US Army.

  16. dx
    dx
    March 28, 2018, 1:17 pm

    I always find these type of articles interesting as a person-who-is-not-Jewish.

    I think the coming issue will be less about young American Jews than just young people (and people of all ages in general) learning about the inequality/human rights issues in Israel–all made possible by the US govt and financed by US tax payers.

    Also, the whole idea of any one country based on maintaining a majority population of one religion and/or ethnicity and trying to call itself a democracy with freedom for all is inherently illogical.

    How does a country maintain such a majority population of one religion/ethnicity? Through what means? There are no answers to these questions that are consistent with democracy and freedom. You will keep running into a logical and ethical brick wall.

    This is the basic problem with the idea of a single religion/ethnicity democratic country.

    I am not so young, but as I learned and talked about Israel with other non-members of the tribe, this has become a big issue for us outsiders.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      March 28, 2018, 1:35 pm

      Dx,

      I think the coming issue will be less about young American Jews than just young people (and people of all ages in general) learning about the inequality/human rights issues in Israel–all made possible by the US govt and financed by US tax payers

      The coming issue of what? Don’t waste muscles holding your breath. Events happen in the Tribe and/or the liberal tribe. With run-of-the-mill, general Americans, it will be a non-event.

  17. helen4yemen
    helen4yemen
    March 28, 2018, 1:46 pm

    This article is totally dishonest from start to finish. American Jews’ financial, political status is directly connected to the Zionist state they created on stolen Arab land. Survey after survey have shown that world Jewry is united when it comes to “Israel”.

    2009 … 94% … US Jews … Expressed sympathy for Israel … The ADL survey
    2012 … 90% … Israeli Jews … Supprted the Gaza war … Haaretz
    2014 … 95% … Israeli Jews … The operation in Gaza is just … The WPost
    2014 … 90% … Israeli Jews … Gaza op justified … Times of Israel
    2014 … 95% … Israeli Jews … The Gaza war was justified … The Guardian
    2014 … 90% … Israeli Jews … Gaza operation is justified … Ynet
    2014 … 93% … US Jews … Expressed sympathy for Israeli … Gallup

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 28, 2018, 2:02 pm

      “American Jews’ financial, political status is directly connected to the Zionist state they created on stolen Arab land”

      And I thought it had something to do with the Constitution, and that nice letter George Washington sent us assuring us that whatever Jews are, they aren’t Native Americans or Africans.
      But it was Israel all the time.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      March 28, 2018, 2:10 pm

      Helen4Yemen,

      Nonono, what you write can’t be true, noway. Unless my memory is playing a mean trick on me, I distinctly remember that for each poll and each date you cite Mr. Weiss wrote enthusiastically about a major anti-Israel turn in “Jewish” opinion that would be arriving any minute.
      Which should I believe? The True Believer or the lying polls?

      • Misterioso
        Misterioso
        March 28, 2018, 2:58 pm

        @echinococcus

        To state the obvious.
        Helen is wrong. You are correct.

        As even a cursory analysis of the multitude of accredited and reliable sources reveal, support for the entity known as “Israel” is in free fall among worldwide Jewry, especially youth, including those living in America. It’s a classic example of “the truth will set you free.” No wonder the Zionist leadership is in panic mode.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        March 28, 2018, 7:59 pm

        Misterioso,

        How so, “Helen is wrong”? We have been hearing Hallelujah for Zionism’s major loss of support for I don’t know how many years now. MW in particular specializes in that kind of triumphalism.

        If you look at it in detail, poll numbers are not really moving. Support for the continued existence of the genocidal Zionist entity is always at the same level. It’s just shifting from one faction to the other and back.

        Besides, the only numbers that count are the percentage of support within the invader mob in Palestine, always over 90% and, for the US where only dollars vote, it’s only Zionist dollars. According to MW though, a radical upset is always imminent.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        March 29, 2018, 8:42 am

        You’re basically quite right, echino. Maybe there is a ray of hope in that our gains are coming mainly in universities and that some very articulate people are now entering the fray. This means that the next-next generation, those who are now chikdren I suppose, will be more exposed to the truth – that the obvious will be less successfully concealed – and the chance of reversing the trend may arise. Furthermore, there’s always a clear element of insecurity behind all the boasting and bombast of Zionism and the flourishing of its weapons – and perhaps that has been shown for a second when the attempt to Krrush Ahed Tammimi was dropped.
        Well, that’s the hope that I can muster. I know that students who pick up radical or even strongly unconventional ideas tend to forget them the day after graduation, that small tactical concessions may mean very little, that support from young people in the West may matter much less than it did, as Israel consolidates its diplomatic presence all over the place.

  18. RobertHenryEller
    RobertHenryEller
    March 28, 2018, 1:48 pm

    I am an Older Jew. I am of Chuck Schumer’s generation. In fact, I’m older than Schumer.

    He and his generation of Fake Jews (def: “jews” who violate the Commandments to not lie, steal, murder; “jews” who violate the teachings of Rabbi Hillel) should be just as terrified of us Older Real Jews (def: we LIVE the Commandments to not lie, steal, murder; we LIVE the teachings of Rabbi Hillel).

    We Old Real Jews are encouraged by the Young Real Jews who understand what their heritage really is.

    We Old Real Jews, who do not deny for a minute the reality and horror of the Holocaust, ALSO know that the Holocaust was not a free ticket to perpetrate another Holocaust. You can kill a people dead. But you can also kill a people alive. That is what the Zionists have been doing for 70 years, while denying to themselves that they are committing genocide; they believe that if they do it slowly enough, the world will not notice, and they will not be guilty.

    But the world sees; the Zionists cannot escape their guilt.

    The Young Real Jews terrify the Old Fake Jews because the Real Jews threaten to expose the Fake Jews – to themselves.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      March 28, 2018, 3:01 pm

      @RobertHenryEller

      BRAVO SIR!! Well and truly stated and inspiring to read. Thank you!!

      For the record:

      What happened in Palestine between late 1947 and 1949 was described by eye-witness Nathan Chofshi, a Jewish immigrant from Russia, who arrived in Palestine in 1908 in the same group as Polish born David Ben-Gurion (nee David Gruen): “…we old Jewish settlers in Palestine who witnessed the flight know how and in what manner we, Jews, forced the Arabs to leave cities and villages…some of them were driven out by force of arms; others were made to leave by deceit, lying and false promises. It is enough to cite the cities of Jaffa, Lydda, Ramle, Beersheba, Acre from among numberless others.” (Quoted in Jewish Newsletter, New York, February 9, 1959; quoted by Erskine Childers in “The Other Exodus, in From Haven to Conquest, ed. Professor Walid Khalidi, Harvard, p. 800)

      Chofshi was deeply ashamed of what his fellow Jews did to the Palestinians: “We came and turned the native Arabs into tragic refugees. And still we dare to slander and malign them, to besmirch their name. Instead of being deeply ashamed of what we did and of trying to undo some of the evil we committed…we justify our terrible acts and even attempt to glorify them.” (Nathan Chofshi, Jewish Newsletter, February 9, 1959; ibid, p. 803)

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      March 29, 2018, 2:35 pm

      Hughes,

      This means that the next-next generation, those who are now chikdren I suppose, will be more exposed to the truth – that the obvious will be less successfully concealed – and the chance of reversing the trend may arise

      Time to acknowledge a Law of Nature:

      1. 80% of people will never follow their curiosity to discover fact or use reason, even if the information is readily available, whenever these facts are likely to be negative for their wallet or self-image.

      2. When such facts and/or reasoning are shoved in their face so that they cannot pretend not to have been notified, 80% of subjects will develop or borrow a rationalization to justify their criminality.

      So I wouldn’t expect that being more exposed to “truth” is likely to change our grandchildren, all other things being equal. Fortunately or not (we’ll know later) all other things are never equal.

      I don’t know if to thank you for the thoughts or keep away from their depressive effect.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        March 29, 2018, 3:24 pm

        A lot of truth in what you say!

  19. genesto
    genesto
    March 28, 2018, 4:30 pm

    No one will ever convert me, a born again agnostic that gave up Catholicism for Lent when he was 17. :-{)

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      March 28, 2018, 9:31 pm

      A late leaver. I was expelled at that age of 14 lol from protestant church. Saying f.j.c. when hit over the head with a hymnal wasn’t good form apparently. My parents said they wouldn’t take me again. I replied, Cool. Verbatim history.

  20. Ruth1940
    Ruth1940
    March 28, 2018, 9:45 pm

    A talk in the 1990s by a retired history professor who was a past president of the local synagogue made my jaw drop when he said that half the Jews in America and half in Israel are secular Jews, that there are synagogues in which the congregation doesn’t believe in a god, just culturally enjoys some of the holidays and rituals. But I’ve never got the impression that it stopped many of them from supporting the nationalistic occupation of Palestine. It somehow seems to be part of their identity. Except for that issue, they seem to be compassionate liberals.

  21. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    March 29, 2018, 7:44 am

    Roseanne is back after 20 years . 45th wedding anniversary and the real life version is pro Israel!

    https://www.google.ch/amp/s/www.haaretz.com/amp/us-news/roseanne-now-pro-trump-and-pro-israel-returns-to-the-airwaves-1.5955820

    But social media is full of millenniasl who hate Israel”s guts! !

  22. Arby
    Arby
    March 30, 2018, 1:01 pm

    “Every time I hear in a Jewish meeting concerns about our children and their lack of interest in Israel, their apathy about Israel, their hostility to Israel… to me it’s extraordinarily painful, and I ask myself, Where did we go wrong? Where did we go wrong?” said one old fascist. The answer, of course, is “You went wrong when you embraced evil.” Noam Chomsky more specifically refers to the decision that Irael’s political leaders made in 1971 to reject a full peace treaty with Egypt.

    “For the most part, Israel can act only within the framework established by the great power on which it has chosen to rely ever since it made the fateful decision in 1971 to prefer expansion to peace, rejecting Egyptian president Anwar Sadat’s proposal for a full Israel-Egyptian peace treaty in favor of settlement in the Egyptian Sinai.” -pg 17 of “Gaza In Crisis – Reflections On Israel’s War Against The Palestinians” by Noam Chomsky and Ilan Pappé

    As for the idea to bring people over to Israel to convert them to Judaism; Those proposing it had better hope that the targets haven’t seen any news items about Israel purging all non white Jews from Israel who weren’t born there. I suppose that they could therefore target only white foreigners. (But why do they think that that’s something that would appeal to people?) Also, They had better hope that those who they would target for assimilation via indoctrination and conversion haven’t noticed the treatment meted out by the fascist Israeli state to its own Hareidi community. In other words, The plan is great, if you set aside the reality that, reportedly, a lot of foreign Jews, notably in American, are appalled at Israel’s behavior. But, people can be bamboozled. Anyone can choose to not care and in this dark, godless world, uncaring people are in the majority. All solutions flow from caring. All problems flow from not caring. Caring = knowing.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      March 30, 2018, 3:30 pm

      “Every time I hear in a Jewish meeting concerns about our children and their lack of interest in Israel, their apathy about Israel, their hostility to Israel…”

      Does it ever occur to them that since Israel procured illegal nuclear weapons, and made the occupation a policy, the diaspora is pretty much hostage to Israel? Sort of engenders a little resentment on the part of the hostages after a while.

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