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A brief, unhappy history of Israeli massacres

Israel/Palestine
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It would be nice to think that, as an Israeli officer once put it, “This time we went too far” — that the killings of 17 unarmed protesters in Gaza by Israeli riflers across a security fence on Friday would cause the world to sanction Israel for its conduct. But if you look over Israel’s history, you find that the massacre has been a ready tool in the Israeli war-chest; and Israelis have not been prosecuted for carrying them out. Indeed, a couple of those responsible later became prime minister!

Here, largely from my own memory, is a rapidly-assembled list of massacres, defined by Webster’s as the killing of a “number of usually helpless or unresisting human beings under circumstances of atrocity or cruelty” (and yes, a couple precede the birth of the state).

1946. Zionist militias blow up the south wing of the King David Hotel, killing 91 people, most of them civilians, in order to protest British rule of Palestine.

1948. Zionist militias kill over 100 civilians in the village of Deir Yassin, which is on the road to Jerusalem. The action helps clear the road for the military advance on Jerusalem and scares thousands of other Palestinians who flee their villages. The name Deir Yassin becomes a rallying cry for Palestinians for decades to come though no one is punished. An officer with responsibility for the massacre, Menachem Begin, became Israeli prime minister 29 years later.

1948. During the expulsion of Palestinians from the central Israeli city of Lydda, more than 100 men are rounded up and held in a mosque and later massacred (according to Reja-e Busailah’s new book and others). The episode terrifies thousands of other Palestinians who seek refuge in the West Bank.

1948. Hundreds of Palestinian civilians are killed by Israeli forces in Al Dawayima village, west of Hebron. Many are killed in barbarous manner; the crime is swept under the rug for decades.

1953. Israeli troops led by Ariel Sharon raid the village of Qibya in the Jordanian-occupied West Bank and kill 69 people, most of them women and children, in retaliation for a cross-border raid that killed three Israelis. (The massacre is memorialized in Nathan Englander’s latest novel as one that solidifies Sharon’s reputation as an officer who will exact swift and awful revenge on those who harm Jews, thereby assuring his rise.)

1956. Israeli forces gun down farmers in Kfar Qasim returning from the fields who are unaware that the village had been placed under a strict curfew by the Israeli government earlier that day. Forty-eight Palestinian citizens of Israel are killed, many women and children.

1956. Israeli forces kill 275 Palestinians in Gaza in the midst of the Suez Crisis. The massacre is documented by Joe Sacco in Footnotes in Gaza.

1967. Israeli forces are said to have killed scores of Egyptian army prisoners in the Sinai during the 1967 War. Some say 100s.

1970. Israel killed 46 Egyptian children and wounded 50 others during an air raid on a primary school in the village of Bahr el-Baqar, Egypt. Known as the Bahr el-Baqar Massacre, the assault completely destroyed the school and was part of the Priha (Blossoms) Operations during the War of Attrition.

1982. The Sabra and Shatilla massacres of Palestinians in Beirut refugee camps are carried out by Lebanese Phalangist militias. But the Israel Defense Forces had control of the area and Ariel Sharon allows the militias to go into the camps. Somewhere between several hundred and 3000 Palestinians are murdered. Sharon, who died in 2014, escaped punishment for war crimes; in fact, he became an Israeli prime minister.

1996. The first Qana massacre takes place when Israeli missiles strike a UN compound in southern Lebanon where many civilians have gathered seeking refuge during clashes between Israel and Hezbollah. Over 100 civilians are killed. “Israel was universally condemned, and the United States intervened to extricate its ally from the quagmire,” Avi Shlaim writes in The Iron Wall.

2006. The second Qana massacre takes place during the Lebanon war when Israeli missiles strike a building in a village outside Qana, killing 36 civilians, including 16 children. The strike is initially defended as a response to the firing of Katyusha rockets at Israel from civilian areas.

2008-2009. During Cast Lead, the Israeli assault on Gaza following exchanges of rocket/missile attacks in months before, more than 1400 Palestinians are killed over 22 days, most of them civilians. Many die as at Qana, when they flee their homes to UN compounds and schools, hoping to be safe. The massacre brings international condemnation, including by the Goldstone Report to the UN Human Rights Council alleging war crimes; but the United States does its utmost under President Obama to defend Israel from all charges, and no one is brought to the bar.

2012.  During eight days of “Pillar of Clouds,” Israel kills 160 Palestinians in Gaza, most of them civilians. The offensive boosts Netanyahu in the polls and seems timed to torpedo Palestine’s historic UN bid for statehood.

2014. Another Israeli onslaught on Gaza, this one lasting 51 days, kills upwards of 2200 Palestinians, most of them civilians. The massacre is famous for sniper killings of unarmed people and for the killings of entire families, 89 according to some authorities, typically wiped out in their homes by a missile strike. In one instance, 20 members of one family are killed. The international condemnation is again toothless.

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81 Responses

  1. annie
    annie
    April 1, 2018, 12:35 pm

    Kafr Qasim massacre

    The Kafr Qasim massacre took place in the Israeli Arab village of Kafr Qasim situated on the Green Line, at that time, the de facto border between Israel and the Jordanian West Bank on October 29, 1956. It was carried out by the Israel Border Police (Magav), who killed Arab civilians returning from work during a curfew, imposed earlier in the day, on the eve of the Sinai war, of which they were unaware.[1] In total 48 people died, of which 19 were men, 6 were women and 23 were children aged 8–17. Arab sources usually give the death toll as 49, as they include the unborn child of one of the women.[2]

    • philweiss
      philweiss
      April 1, 2018, 2:57 pm

      thanks Annie, how could I forget. Going to amend the post later, and add Mavi Marmara too.. Phil

  2. Citizen
    Citizen
    April 1, 2018, 1:00 pm

    US cable tv news is boilerplate hasbara coverage of the protest on Gaza borders.

  3. just
    just
    April 1, 2018, 2:16 pm

    There was ‘Pillar of Defense’, too.

    “Hundreds March in Tel Aviv in Solidarity With Gaza Following Deadly Protests …

    Around 250 people protested in Tel Aviv on Sunday in solidarity with Gaza following a bloody weekend in which 15 Palestinians were killed. The protest was titled “Create hope, stop the next war” and protesters chanted “no to the occupation” and “In Gaza and Sderot, little girls want to stay alive.”

    Michael Sfard, renowned human rights lawyer, spoke to Haaretz at the protest and said: ״Gaza is under siege and has been under occupation for the past decade. The people of Gaza are suffering from an enormous humanitarian crisis and now, when they tried to protest against it, they were met with brutal force which killed 16 of them and injured and maimed many others. As an Israeli, my duty is to protest against the evils that are done in my name.”

    A small counter protest took place on the other side of the road. In Jaffa, Arab citizens of Israel protested in solidarity with Gaza at the same time. …”

    good video @ https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/250-march-in-tel-aviv-in-solidarity-with-gaza-after-deadly-protests-1.5964144

    Wish that it had been thousands… maybe tomorrow. Sigh.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      April 4, 2018, 2:27 am

      Expecting Israelis to effect change is like expecting Russians to overthrow the kleptocracy. Israeli society is a psychological mess. Hillel must be laughing somewhere. There is no such thing as an empty land.

  4. zaid
    zaid
    April 1, 2018, 2:49 pm

    I can add over a hundred more massacre committed by the Zionists in Palestine especially between 1937-1939 and 1947-1948 like Dahmash mosqu,Tantura, KhanYounesوQibya..etc

    http://www.aljazeera.net/specialfiles/pages/d26b2a50-b09c-44da-ac50-96c8cfd5d748

    Also people forget the Zionists massacres in other Arab countries like Bahr el Baqar massacre in Egypt when Israel bombed a primary school killing dozens of Children.

    http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/199065/Egypt/Politics-/Egypts-Bahr-AlBaqar-Flashbacks-of-an-Israeli-war-c.aspx

    • just
      just
      April 1, 2018, 3:08 pm

      Bloodthirsty bunch of massacrists going way back~ and they continue to bomb other countries and violate their sovereignty today. It’s all done with impunity granted by the West and others.

      Thanks for reminding us, zaid.

    • gamal
      gamal
      April 1, 2018, 4:07 pm

      assalaamu alaikum Zaid here is a report on bahr al baqar, we don’t forget, we don’t ever forget.

      http://dai.ly/x55ds9m

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        April 4, 2018, 3:17 am

        The problem with “fuck you ” is that it works both ways. After Stalingrad the Wehrmacht got total war.
        Israel has never respected international law so it should expect the same when the tide turns.

    • lonely rico
      lonely rico
      April 1, 2018, 6:38 pm

      > zaid

      I can add over a hundred more massacre committed by the Zionists in Palestine

      Thousands of acts of vicious violence by European Zionist invaders (State of terror/Thomas Suarez), killing and maiming Palestinians, in preparation for the theft of their land, their homes, their lives, and their histories.
      Ugly cruelty which daily continues.
      Zionism (like Nazism) must disappear from the pages of history.

    • annie
      annie
      April 1, 2018, 6:42 pm

      zaid, just saw your comment. i added khan yunis a couple hours ago, before the 2012 gaza slaughter (thanks just). i know there are so many more…

    • Mayhem
      Mayhem
      April 2, 2018, 8:50 pm

      @zaid, how about the full story?
      From wikipedia:
      Speaking about the Bahr el Baqar incident, Egyptian commander Abdelatim Ramadan said: “Actually, two targets were hit by the Israelis. The first target was a group of military bases about 30 km. from the Suez Canal, which were targeted before, on the night of 18–19 December 1969. The second target was the Bahr El-Baqar primary school. [ … ] There comes a time to acknowledge an important fact in this area, that at those black days of Israeli bombing, the military targets were mixed with civilian targets. We can even say that in many cases the military targets were hiding behind civilian targets.”
      Ergo the oft-used tactic of using civilians as human shields as Hamas does time and time again.

      • druid
        druid
        April 3, 2018, 12:12 pm

        Haven’t got the message that hasbara is not working!?

      • zaid
        zaid
        April 3, 2018, 12:24 pm

        Give up Mayhem , No one takes the nonsense of Human shields seriously anymore.

        It is a failed tactic to justify war crimes.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        April 3, 2018, 9:39 pm

        zaod

        I still take the issue of human shields quite seriois. The penchant of Israel to use human shields is quite well documented. Frequently they use children for such activities.

        Their claims against Palestinians are their usual projection necessitated by the vileness of their crimes (once more – usually against children)

      • Mayhem
        Mayhem
        April 4, 2018, 7:47 pm

        Unsubstantiated refutations re the use of human shields by Hamas as further elucidated here are meaningless and only go to demonstrate the rank poverty of the pro-Hamas anti-Israel argument.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        April 4, 2018, 10:12 pm

        @Mayhem

        Pure bs. There are more than one glaringly false or misleading statements on that page which call into question the legitimacy of the entire web site. I’ll listen to the independent human rights orgs and not the official pronouncements of one of the worst human rights violators and murderous regimes on the planet.

        Give it a rest Israeli lies are long past their stale date.

  5. Edward Q
    Edward Q
    April 1, 2018, 4:08 pm

    The 1953 massacre led to a UN resolution. I think the first intifada was sparked by the murder of three Palestinians. The Israeli response had some name like “Iron Fist” where the Israelis would break the arms of Palestinians. There was booklet published around that time with accounts of Israeli atrocities during the Intifada taken from the Israeli press.

  6. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    April 1, 2018, 4:29 pm

    RE: “A brief, unhappy history of Israeli massacres”

    SEE: Netanyahu: “We Will Forever Live By The Sword”, Indefinitely Control All Palestinian Territory | By IMEMC News | October 27, 2015

    [EXCERPT] Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu has announced his plan to control “all of the territory” and “live forever by the sword.”

    The remarks were reported in Haa’retz newspaper, according to PNN, in an article by journalist Barak Ravid.

    Mr Ravid wrote: “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday that although he doesn’t want a binational state, “at this time we need to control all of the territory for the foreseeable future.”

    MKs who took part in the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee meeting – today (Monday) – reportedly told Mr Ravid that Netanyahu had turned to the politicians present and said: “You think there is a magic wand here, but I disagree. I’m asked if we will forever live by the sword – yes.” . . .

    SOURCE – http://www.mintpressnews.com/netanyahu-we-will-forever-live-by-the-sword-indefinitely-control-all-palestinian-territory/210700/

  7. JosephA
    JosephA
    April 1, 2018, 4:34 pm

    The zionists also massacred Jews in Iraq several times. This is well documented.

    • jon s
      jon s
      April 2, 2018, 6:38 am

      Joseph A,
      Zionists did not massacre “Jews in Iraq several times” .

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      April 2, 2018, 10:49 am

      @JosephA

      In his book, The Jews of Iraq, Naeim Giladi, an Iraqi Jew who immigrated to Israel, quotes the following passage from American diplomat, Wilbur Crane Eveland’s book, Ropes of Sand:

      “In attempts to portray the Iraqis as anti-American and to terrorize the Jews, the Zionists planted bombs in the U.S. Information Service library and in synagogues. Soon leaflets began to appear urging Jews to flee to Israel…. Although the Iraqi police later provided our embassy with evidence to show that the synagogue and library bombings, as well as the anti-Jewish and anti-American leaflet campaigns, had been the work of an underground Zionist organization, most of the world believed reports that Arab terrorism had motivated the flight of the Iraqi Jews whom the Zionists had ‘rescued’ really just in order to increase Israel’s Jewish population.”

      Giladi then goes on to say: “Eveland doesn’t detail the evidence linking the Zionists to the attacks, but in my book I do. In 1955, for example, I organized in Israel a panel of Jewish attorneys of Iraqi origin to handle claims of Iraqi Jews who still had property in Iraq. One well known attorney, who asked that I not give his name, confided in me that the laboratory tests in Iraq had confirmed that the anti-American leaflets found at the American Cultural [Information] Center bombing were typed on the same typewriter and duplicated on the same stencilling machine as the leaflets distributed by the Zionist movement just before the April 8th bombing.

      “Tests also showed that the type of explosive used in the Beit-Lawi [Automobile Company] attack matched traces of explosives found in the suitcase of an Iraqi Jew by the name of Yosef Basri. Basri, a lawyer, together with Shalom Salih, a shoemaker, would be put on trial for the attacks in December 1951 and executed the following month. Both men were members of Hashura, the military arm of the Zionist underground. Salih ultimately confessed that he, Basri and a third man, Yosef Habaza, carried out the attacks.” (Naeim Giladi, The Jews of Iraq, http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html, April 3/04)

      The U.S. State Department was also well aware of what Israeli agents had done in Iraq to precipitate Jewish emigration: “When [in August 1951] Israel undertook a campaign to get Iranian Jews to immigrate to Israel, the director of the office of Near Eastern affairs in the U.S. Department of State, G. Lewis Jones, told Teddy Kolleck, of Israel’s embassy in Washington, that the United States ‘would not favour a deliberately generated exodus there,’ as he put it, ‘along the lines of the ingathering from Iraq.’ Kolleck justified Israel’s Iraq operation as beneficial for Iraq, stating it was ‘better for a country to be homogeneous.'” (“Memorandum of Conversation by the Director of the Office of Near Eastern Affairs (Jones),” August 2, 1951, Foreign Relations of the United States 1951, vol. 6 p. 813, at p. 815 (1982)

      It was only through chance that the identity of those responsible for the bombing campaign against Iraqi Jews was discovered. In June 1951, while working as a salesman in Baghdad’s largest department store, a Palestinian refugee was shocked to recognize an Israeli Jew he knew as Yehuda Tagar. Before the 1948 war, the Palestinian had been employed as a waiter in Acre and Tagar was one of his regular customers. He informed the Iraqi police immediately and Tagar, along with a male companion were arrested.

      At first Tagar said he was in Iraq to marry a Jewish girl, but his associate admitted they belonged to “the Movement” and an additional thirteen members were soon picked up. One of those arrested, a youngster named Shalom Salih, after confessing that he was in charge of an arms cache smuggled into the country, showed the police where the weapons were hidden in various synagogues. (David Hirst, The Gun and The Olive Branch, p. 158)

      A trial was held in accordance with international law (Hirst, p. 159) and the fifteen men were found guilty of belonging to a Zionist underground organization responsible for carrying out bomb attacks against Iraqi Jews in order to panic them into immigrating to Israel. Two of the convicted were executed for murdering the four Jews at the Mas’oudah Shemtov synagogue and the rest received lengthy prison terms

      The verdict of the court came as no surprise to representatives of western governments in Iraq at the time: “Wilbur Crane Eveland, a U.S. Central Intelligence Agency Officer who was in Baghdad at the time, concluded that the Movement had set the bombs, as did resident British officials.” (John Quigley, Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice,
      p. 101)

      Although sentenced to life imprisonment, Yehuda Tagar was released after serving only ten years. He returned to Israel and eventually became an official in the Foreign Ministry. On 29 May 1966, the Israeli weekly, Ha’Olam Hazeh published an article based on testimony given by Tagar regarding his role in Zionist efforts to intimidate Iraqi Jews into immigrating to Israel. Other former members of “the Movement” living in Israel also gave their stories to the press and their accounts confirmed that the bombs were set off to “encourage” Iraqi Jews to move to Israel. (Michael Palumbo, The Palestinian Catastrophe, p. 200)

      The whole sordid story of “the Movement,” including eye-witness testimonies of two Iraqi Jewish immigrants, was finally revealed in the 9 November 1972 issue of Black Panther, an Israeli magazine published by Mizrahi activists. One of the immigrants, Kaduri Salim, had spent years seeking compensation from the Israeli government for the loss of his right eye when the Mas’oudah Shemtov synagogue [in Iraq] was bombed by Zionist agents. An other witness gave a detailed account of the bomb attacks against Jews in Iraq and what then transpired. He declared that “the evidence [against those members of “the Movement arrested by the Iraqi police] was just such that it wasn’t difficult at all to pronounce such sentences.” (David Hirst, p. 159)

      • JLewisDickerson
        JLewisDickerson
        April 2, 2018, 3:23 pm

        ■ ALSO SEE, FROM WIKIPEDIA [Lavon Affair]:

        [EXCERPTS] The Lavon Affair refers to a series of failed Israeli planned and sponsored terrorist attacks, code named Operation Susannah, conducted in Egypt in the Summer of 1954. As part of the false flag operation,[1] a group of Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence for plans to plant bombs inside Egyptian, American and British-owned civilian targets, cinemas, libraries and American educational centers. The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, “unspecified malcontents” or “local nationalists” with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt’s Suez Canal zone.[2] The operation caused no casualties, except for those terrorists of the cell who committed suicide after being captured.

        The operation ultimately became known as the Lavon Affair after the Israeli defense minister Pinhas Lavon was forced to resign as a consequence of the incident. Before Lavon’s resignation, the incident had been euphemistically referred to in Israel as the “Unfortunate Affair” or “The Bad Business” (Hebrew: עסק הביש‎, Esek HaBish). After Israel publicly denied any involvement in the incident for 51 years, the surviving terrorists were officially honored in 2005 by being awarded certificates of appreciation by Israeli President Moshe Katzav.[3]

        In the early 1950s, the United States initiated a more activist policy of support for Egyptian nationalism; this was often in contrast with British policies of maintaining its regional hegemony. Israel feared that this policy, which encouraged Britain to withdraw its military forces from the Suez Canal, would embolden Egyptian President Nasser’s military ambitions towards Israel. Israel first sought to influence this policy through diplomatic means but was frustrated.[4]

        In the summer of 1954 Colonel Binyamin Gibli, the chief of Israel’s military intelligence, Aman, initiated Operation Susannah in order to reverse that decision. The goal of the Operation was to carry out bombings and other acts of terrorism in Egypt with the aim of creating an atmosphere in which the British and American opponents of British withdrawal from Egypt would be able to gain the upper hand and block the British withdrawal from Egypt.

        According to historian Shabtai Teveth, who wrote one of the more detailed accounts, the assignment was “To undermine Western confidence in the existing [Egyptian] regime by generating public insecurity and actions to bring about arrests, demonstrations, and acts of revenge, while totally concealing the Israeli factor. The team was accordingly urged to avoid detection, so that suspicion would fall on the Muslim Brotherhood, the Communists, ‘unspecified malcontents’ or ‘local nationalists’.”[2] . . .

        . . . On 2 July the cell detonated bombs at a post office in Alexandria,[6] and on 14 July, it bombed the libraries of the U.S. Information Agency in Alexandria and Cairo and a British-owned theater. . . .

        . . . Several suspects were arrested, including Egyptian Jews and undercover Israelis. . .

        • Public debate
        Due to Israel’s military censorship the details of the affair could originally not be openly discussed in the media. Despite this, debate occurred but with the use of code words such as the “Senior Officer”, to refer to Gibli, and the “unfortunate business” to refer to the Egyptian operation.[12] . . .

        • Legacy
        Operation Susannah and the Lavon Affair turned out to be disastrous for Israel in several ways . . .

        . . . On March 30, 2005 Israel publicly honored the surviving spies, and President Moshe Katsav presented each with a certificate of appreciation for their efforts on behalf of the state, ending decades of official denial by Israel [most likely including allegations of anti-Semitism, blood libel, etc. having been made against anyone having the temerity to accuse Israel of having ever been involved ~ J.L.D.] [3]

        SOURCE – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

      • JLewisDickerson
        JLewisDickerson
        April 2, 2018, 3:33 pm

        P.S. ADDITIONAL NOTE: In 1956 Israel conspired with England and France to invade Egypt in what is euphemistically referred to as the “Suez Crisis“.

        Suez Crisis
        From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis

        The Suez Crisis or the Second Arab–Israeli War[15][16][17] also named the Tripartite Aggression (in the Arab world) and Operation Kadesh or Sinai War (in Israel),[18] was an invasion of Egypt in late 1956 by Israel, followed by the United Kingdom and France. The aims were to regain Western control of the Suez Canal and to remove Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser, who had just nationalized the canal.[19] After the fighting had started, political pressure from the United States, the Soviet Union, and the United Nations led to a withdrawal by the three invaders. The episode humiliated Great Britain and France and strengthened Nasser.

        On 29 October, Israel invaded the Egyptian Sinai. Britain and France issued a joint ultimatum to cease fire, which was ignored. On 5 November, Britain and France landed paratroopers along the Suez Canal. The Egyptian forces were defeated, but they did block the canal to all shipping. It later became clear that the Israeli invasion and the subsequent Anglo-French attack had been planned beforehand by the three countries.

        The three allies had attained a number of their military objectives, but the canal was now useless. Heavy political pressure from the United States and the USSR led to a withdrawal. U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower had strongly warned Britain not to invade; he now threatened serious damage to the British financial system by selling the US government’s pound sterling bonds. Historians conclude the crisis “signified the end of Great Britain’s role as one of the world’s major powers”.[23][24] The Suez Canal was closed from October 1956 until March 1957. Israel fulfilled some of its objectives, such as attaining freedom of navigation through the Straits of Tiran, which Egypt had blocked to Israeli shipping since 1950 [and Nasser’s reneging on this in 1967 served as Israel’s casus belli for the Six Day War when it occupied the West Bank ~ J.L.D.]. [25]

        As a result of the conflict, the United Nations created the UNEF Peacekeepers to police the Egyptian–Israeli border, British Prime Minister Anthony Eden resigned, Canadian Minister of External Affairs Lester Pearson won the Nobel Peace Prize, and the USSR may have been emboldened to invade Hungary.[26][27] . . .

        Abolishing civil liberties
        Further information: 1956–57 exodus and expulsions from Egypt

        In October 1956, when the Suez Crisis erupted, Nasser brought in a set of sweeping regulations abolishing civil liberties and allowing the state to stage mass arrests without charge and strip away Egyptian citizenship from any group it desired; these measures were mostly directed against the Jews of Egypt.[366] As part of its new policy, 1,000 Jews were arrested and 500 Jewish businesses were seized by the government.[367] A statement branding the Jews as “Zionists and enemies of the state” was read out in the mosques of Cairo and Alexandria. Jewish bank accounts were confiscated and many Jews lost their jobs.[368] Lawyers, engineers, doctors and teachers were not allowed to work in their professions.[368] Thousands of Jews were ordered to leave the country.[368] They were allowed to take only one suitcase and a small sum of cash, and forced to sign declarations “donating” their property to the Egyptian government.[369] Some 25,000 Jews [including Haim Saban’s family in Alexandria – J.L.D.], almost half of the Jewish community left, mainly for Israel, Europe, the United States and South America. By 1957 the Jewish population of Egypt had fallen to 15,000.[369]
        . . .

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 4, 2018, 3:36 pm

        The Iraqi authorities were effectively kicking the Jews out, so the Jews hardly needed “encouragement ” in the form of bombings. It was official Iraqi policy that they had to go.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        April 5, 2018, 8:43 pm

        Jon, are you suggesting that Zionist agents did not carry out any bombings or other terrorist activities in Iraq?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        April 5, 2018, 8:45 pm

        JLD, in 1956 Israel conspired with Britain and France.

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 6, 2018, 5:44 am

        RoHa,
        I’ve commented on this issue numerous times, my point being that Iraq, in effect , expelled the Jews.
        I’m aware of the allegations and rumors of “Zionist bombings”, which don’t make much sense, since the Jews were being expelled, and the Israeli government would have probably preferred to slow down the rate of immigration at the time.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2017/08/nuclear-refugees-returning/#comment-888264

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 6, 2018, 5:54 am

        I also recommend this movie:

      • gamal
        gamal
        April 6, 2018, 10:43 am

        “I also recommend this movie:”

        got a link to Exodus or To Cast A Giant Shadow(?), they’re good too..old but good.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 6, 2018, 11:05 am

        Funny, isn’t it, how non-plussed they get when confronted by people who aren’t completely and hopelessly in love with “the Jews”.

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 6, 2018, 12:08 pm

        gamal,
        “Exodus” and “Cast a Giant Shadow” were Hollywood productions, very inaccurate and fictionalized, especially “Exodus”.
        The film I recommended is Israeli, with a much more modest budget, and based on the author Eli Amir’s autobiographical account.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 6, 2018, 12:21 pm

        Well, what do you know, “Jon s’s” conclusions about massacre are downright Presidential!

  8. JLewisDickerson
    JLewisDickerson
    April 1, 2018, 4:39 pm

    FOR THE ULTIMATE IN POTENTIAL ISRAELI ‘MASSACRES’, SEE THIS FROM FROM WIKIPEDIA [Samson Option, as of 5/25/12]:

    (EXCERPTS) The Samson Option is a term used to describe Israel’s alleged deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a “last resort” against nations whose military attacks threaten its existence, and possibly against other targets as well.[1] . . .
    . . . Some have written about the “Samson Option” as a retaliation strategy. In 2002, the Los Angeles Times published an opinion piece by Louisiana State University professor David Perlmutter which has been seen as justifying a Samson Option approach.[19] He wrote:

    “Israel has been building nuclear weapons for 30 years. The Jews understand what passive and powerless acceptance of doom has meant for them in the past, and they have ensured against it. Masada was not an example to follow—it hurt the Romans not a whit, but Samson in Gaza? What would serve the Jew-hating world better in repayment for thousands of years of massacres but a Nuclear Winter. . .[20]

    . . . In 2003, Martin van Creveld [professor of military history at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem – J.L.D.] thought that the Al-Aqsa Intifada then in progress threatened Israel’s existence.[21] Van Creveld was quoted in David Hirst’s “The Gun and the Olive Branch” (2003) as saying:

    “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force. . . Our armed forces, however, are not the thirtieth strongest in the world, but rather the second or third. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”[22]

    Ron Rosenbaum writes in his 2012 book How the End Begins: The Road to a Nuclear World War III that in the “aftermath of a second Holocaust” Israel’s surviving Dophin-class nuclear missile submarines would retaliate not only against Israel’s attackers, but “bring down the pillars of the world (attack Moscow and European capitals for instance)” as well as the “holy places of Islam.” He writes that “abandonment of proportionality is the essence” of the Samson Option.[23] . . .

    SOURCE – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samson_Option

    • JLewisDickerson
      JLewisDickerson
      April 1, 2018, 4:43 pm

      P.S. ALSO SEE: “Operation Samson; Israel’s Deployment of Nuclear Missiles on Subs from Germany”, by Der Speigel, 6/04/12

      [EXCERPTS] The pride of the Israeli navy is rocking gently in the swells of the Mediterranean, with the silhouette of the Carmel mountain range reflected on the water’s surface. To reach the Tekumah, you have to walk across a wooden jetty at the pier in the port of Haifa, and then climb into a tunnel shaft leading to the submarine’s interior. The navy officer in charge of visitors, a brawny man in his 40s with his eyes hidden behind a pair of Ray-Ban sunglasses, bounces down the steps. When he reaches the lower deck, he turns around and says: “Welcome on board the Tekumah. Welcome to my toy.”
      He pushes back a bolt and opens the refrigerator, revealing zucchini, a pallet of yoghurt cups and a two-liter bottle of low-calorie cola. The Tekumah has just returned from a secret mission in the early morning hours.
      The navy officer, whose name the military censorship office wants to keep secret, leads the visitors past a pair of bunks and along a steel frame. The air smells stale, not unlike the air in the living room of an apartment occupied solely by men. At the middle of the ship, the corridor widens and merges into a command center, with work stations grouped around a periscope. The officer stands still and points to a row of monitors, with signs bearing the names of German electronics giant Siemens and Atlas, a Bremen-based electronics company, screwed to the wall next to them.
      The “Combat Information Center,” as the Israelis call the command center, is the heart of the submarine, the place where all information comes together and all the operations are led. The ship is controlled from two leather chairs. It looks as if it could be in the cockpit of a small aircraft. A display lit up in red shows that the vessel’s keel is currently located 7.15 meters (23.45 feet) below sea level.
      “This was all built in Germany, according to Israeli specifications,” the navy officer says,”and so were the weapons systems.” The Tekumah, 57 meters long and 7 meters wide, is a showpiece of precision engineering, painted in blue and made in Germany. To be more precise, it is a piece of precision engineering made in Germany that is suitable for equipping with nuclear weapons.
      • No Room for Doubt
      Deep in their interiors, on decks 2 and 3, the submarines contain a secret that even in Israel is only known to a few insiders: nuclear warheads, small enough to be mounted on a cruise missile, but explosive enough to execute a nuclear strike that would cause devastating results. This secret is considered one of the best kept in modern military history. Anyone who speaks openly about it in Israel runs the risk of being sentenced to a lengthy prison term.
      Research SPIEGEL has conducted in Germany, Israel and the United States, among current and past government ministers, military officials, defense engineers and intelligence agents, no longer leaves any room for doubt: With the help of German maritime technology, Israel has managed to create for itself a floating nuclear weapon arsenal: submarines equipped with nuclear capability. . .

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/israel-deploys-nuclear-weapons-on-german-built-submarines-a-836784.html

  9. just
    just
    April 1, 2018, 4:53 pm

    Marilyn Garson:

    “Debunking Israel’s Talking Points on Deadly Gaza Protests …

    In 1988 at the gates of Jerusalem’s Old City, I watched Palestinian youths face down Israeli soldiers. The soldiers held rifles, while the Palestinians held stones. That asymmetry sent the Judaism of my childhood crashing headlong into my sense of justice. The stones demanded that I ask, “What could make a young man risk his life this way?”

    My work with war-affected communities later brought me to the Gaza Strip. Living there from 2011 to 2015, I confronted Israel’s power from the ground. …

    Tens of thousands of Gazans walked toward the border facing a heavily armed Israeli line. They walked toward rifles and drones. Israel had announced its deployment of a hundred snipers authorized to use live ammunition. And fire they did; the United Nations reports 15 dead and 1,416 wounded, including 750 hit by live ammunition, of whom 20 are in critical condition.

    Gazans walked into all that, demanding that we ask, “What is happening in Gaza to make them risk their lives?” That is the bedrock question. Layers of language are being heaped upon it, to obscure it.

    Even before the protest began, Israeli spokespeople framed it preemptively as a Hamas production. If the march is merely Hamas’ political positioning, they imply, there is no need to seek a deeper understanding.

    However, Hamas is not Gaza and Gaza is not Hamas. Civilian Gazans’ willingness to walk to that fence is not a measure of their support for Hamas. It measures their yearning to express themselves as humans and claim their freedom, even at immediate risk.

    Benjamin Netanyahu presented the killings as the defense of Israel’s border. However, a border is an agreed line. This line is the unilateral, military demarcation of an illegal blockade.

    The Israeli army additionally militarizes a belt of Gaza’s agricultural land, intruding a further 300 to 500 meters into Gaza. That is the zone in which live fire is being used. Gazans are walking and being killed, on their own land. Walking in protest is not a capital crime in other places, and human rights group B’Tselem calls Israel’s attempt to control the Gaza protest with live fire “absurd.”

    Netanyahu declared his policy of “war on stone-throwers” in 2015, arguing that a stone justifies the use of deadly force. Perhaps to Humpty Dumpty it does. However, since those nights of the 2014 war, when Israel rained bombs onto Gaza each minute, I have wanted to ask him exactly how much deadly force is needed to justify a stone.

    At the moment, the stones detract from the greater power of unarmed Gazans, walking. …

    Israeli voices have justified even the country’s most grievous violence against Gaza as being necessary to safeguard Israelis’ normal lives. Normal? Two million Palestinians exist behind a wall, deprived of their fundamental rights to clean water, health, work, mobility. They are held in place by a structural violence that has become Israel’s lifestyle, propped up by law, dehumanizing rhetoric, politics and arms. …

    Chemi Shalev fears “preposterous” comparisons to Birmingham, Alabama and apartheid South Africa, if these protests “compel the IDF to kill and maim unarmed civilians.” No one is compelling the IDF to kill.

    Gaza doesn’t need to be Birmingham or Soweto to learn from them. When entrenched injustice refuses to right itself, mass nonviolent protest can help build and broaden the pressure that upends systemic wrongs.

    To understand why Gazans are willing to pit their bodies against an army, peel away the political positioning on all sides. Instead ask, “What quality of life has convinced tens of thousands of human beings that such danger represents their best hope – and why aren’t they allowed to walk?””

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-debunking-israel-s-talking-points-on-deadly-gaza-protests-1.5963880

  10. just
    just
    April 1, 2018, 6:50 pm

    Highly recommended reading from Neve Gordon:

    “Where is Palestine’s Gandhi? Marching in Gaza

    Rather than ask when the Palestinians will produce a Gandhi, we must ask when Israel will produce a leader that does not subjugate an occupied population through lethal violence.

    For decades Zionists have blamed the Palestinians for Israel’s ongoing colonial project. “If only the Palestinians had a Mahatma Gandhi,” many Israeli liberals have exclaimed, “then the occupation would end.”

    But if one truly wished to find Palestinian Mahatma Gandhis all one needed to do is look at the images of protesters on Friday night’s news broadcasts. An estimated 30,000 Palestinians joined the nonviolent March of Return, which aimed to set up a few camps several hundred meters from the militarized fence surrounding the Gaza Strip. Their goal was to protest their incarceration in the world’s largest open-air prison as well as the massive confiscation of their ancestral land. After all, 70 percent of Gaza’s population are 1948 refugees whose families had owned land in what became Israel.

    As Gaza’s residents marched towards the militarized fence, I sat with my family, reciting the Haggadah for the Passover holiday, which tells us that “In every generation, it is one’s duty to regard oneself as though he or she personally had gone out of Egypt.” In other words, while the soldiers shot live bullets at the peaceful demonstrators, these soldiers’ parents were being asked to imagine what it means to live in Gaza and what it would take to liberate oneself from such captivity. And as my family went on to sing, “No more shall they in bondage toil, let my people go,” news sites reported that the number of Palestinians killed had reached 17, while several hundred had been wounded.

    The accusation that Palestinians have failed to adopt non-violent methods of resistance, and therefore share responsibility for Israel’s ongoing subjugation and dispossession, not only completely disavows the vast asymmetry in power relations between the coloniser and colonised, but, just as importantly, fails to consider the political history of anticolonial struggles, not least the Palestinian one itself. Indeed, it completely ignores the fact that Israel’s colonial project has been upheld through attritional, protracted and widespread violence, and, despite what certain Western media outlets might present, the Palestinians have developed a robust and long-standing tradition of non-violent resistance. Moreover, the demand to adopt a non-violent ideology completely elides the history of other liberation struggles: from Algiers to Vietnam and all the way back to South Africa. …

    Thus, the tragedy is that Gaza’s Passover massacre simply joins this long list of nonviolent resistance that has, historically, been met with violence and repression by Israel.”

    Much, much more @ https://972mag.com/where-is-palestines-gandhi-marching-in-gaza/134274/

    • Tuyzentfloot
      Tuyzentfloot
      April 2, 2018, 6:14 am

      Finkelstein has written about Gandhi and I haven’t read it but I’m sure it will be enlightening. I’ve read Orwell though http://www.orwell.ru/library/reviews/gandhi/english/e_gandhi
      One the one hand the British started out liking him because they equated nonviolent with ineffective:

      It was also apparent that the British were making use of him, or thought they were making use of him. Strictly speaking, as a Nationalist, he was an enemy, but since in every crisis he would exert himself to prevent violence — which, from the British point of view, meant preventing any effective action whatever — he could be regarded as “our man”.

      On the other hand Gandhi’s ideas about nonviolence were more radical than we might assume:

      When, in 1942, he urged non-violent resistance against a Japanese invasion, he was ready to admit that it might cost several million deaths.

      The Israeli approach appears to have two sides
      1. target acquisition: ‘Show us the Palestinian Gandhi’
      2. it’s never nonviolent enough so it’s in the same ballpark as blowing yourself up on a schoolbus. Ahed Tamimi violently assaults a soldier. kids throw rocks. It doesn’t look violent but it’s instigated by violent people. It’s threatening.
      Those Indians intruding on the personal space of the soldiers was very uncomfortable too.

  11. Kay24
    Kay24
    April 2, 2018, 1:13 am

    Looking at this interesting list, it strikes me that had this been any other Middle Eastern nation, that was not chummy with the US, they would have been shocked and awed a long time ago. The US is complicit in all these crimes, by giving these butchers aid, the weapons to kill, and the unwavering support at the UN. Americans should be ashamed of this.

  12. jon s
    jon s
    April 2, 2018, 6:45 am

    I’m surpised that Phil Weiss left out the massacre perpetrated by Dr. Baruch Goldstein in Hebron, 1994

    Would anyone care for a” brief unhappy history” of massacres in which Israelis and Jews were
    the victims?

    • John O
      John O
      April 2, 2018, 8:17 am

      Sure. Just one condition – they must have been carried out by the Palestinian army, navy or air force to count.

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 3, 2018, 7:50 am

        John O,
        What’s the point of your “condition”? Why make distinctions?
        Innocent civilians and POWs should not be deliberately massacred by anyone whether by regular armed forces or by irregulars.

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 3, 2018, 8:13 am

        || jon s: John O,
        What’s the point of your “condition”? Why make distinctions?
        Innocent civilians and POWs should not be deliberately massacred by anyone whether by regular armed forces or by irregulars. ||

        jon s,
        What’s the point of your “condition”? Why make distinctions?
        No-one should be deliberately massacred by anyone whether by regular armed forces or by irregulars.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 3, 2018, 8:40 pm

        “No-one should be deliberately massacred by anyone whether by regular armed forces or by irregulars.”

        If they are “innocent”, that is.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      April 2, 2018, 2:53 pm

      “I’m surpised that Phil Weiss left out the massacre perpetrated by Dr. Baruch Goldstein in Hebron, 1994”

      So you are conceding that was an Israeli action, carried out by the State of Israel?
      Thanks for allying my suspicions, “Jon s”.

    • US Citizen
      US Citizen
      April 2, 2018, 3:06 pm

      Don’t forget Jack Teital. Teitel joins a long list including Baruch Goldstein, who gunned down 29 Muslim worshipers in Hebron’s Cave of the Patriarchs in 1994.

      Eden Natan-Zada, who killed four Israeli Arabs in Shfaram ahead of the Gaza disengagement in 2005.

      And the Bat Ayin Underground, which was caught after planting a massive bomb next to an Arab girls school in east Jerusalem in 2002.

      Shin Bet arrested a number of Bat Ayin residents who were members of a Jewish underground cell that had planned to bomb Arab schools in East Jerusalem.

      Don’t forget the most recent serial killer terrorist Chaim Pearlman who along with buddies terrorized Palestinians for 12 years.

      It’s also no coincidence that Shvut Rachel, where Teitel lived, was also the home of another settler terrorist, Asher Weissgan, who killed five Palestinian workers in 2005.

      A close friend of Teitel’s in the settlement is Asher Richland, who was a close collaborator with Eden Natan-Zada, yet another settler serial-murderer.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      April 3, 2018, 12:49 pm

      “Would anyone care for a” brief unhappy history” of massacres in which Israelis and Jews were
      the victims?”

      How many times do you plan to sell the same corpses, “Jon s”? Do you really think the price for Jewish corpses goes up when Israel massacres Palestinians?

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 3, 2018, 1:00 pm

        || Mooser: … How many times do you plan to sell the same corpses, “Jon s”? Do you really think the price for Jewish corpses goes up when Israel massacres Palestinians? ||

        jon s is just doing his part to maintain awareness of the basic tenets of Zionism, two of which are:
        – Acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews justify acts of injustice and immorality committed by Jews.
        – Jews are entitled to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them.

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 3, 2018, 5:34 pm

        Eljay,
        I never wrote anything like that and that’s not what I think.
        I regard all innocent human lives to be of equal value.
        I just think that if Phil Weiss made a list of massacres, without even mentioning massacres in which Jews and Israelis were the victims – it should be pointed out.
        I repeat: no massacre of innocents on one side justifies a massacre on the other side.

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 3, 2018, 7:05 pm

        || jon s: Eljay,
        I never wrote anything like that and that’s not what I think. … ||

        I never said you wrote anything like that. And while I don’t claim to know what you think, the fact remains that you are a Zionist and those are two of the tenets of your ideology.

        || jon s: … I repeat: no massacre of innocents on one side justifies a massacre on the other side. ||

        And I ask again: What’s the point of your “condition”? Why make distinctions?
        No-one should be deliberately massacred by anyone whether by regular armed forces or by irregulars.

      • amigo
        amigo
        April 3, 2018, 7:41 pm

        “I just think that if Phil Weiss made a list of massacres, without even mentioning massacres in which Jews and Israelis were the victims – it should be pointed out.” jon s

        Sure Jon S , like they do over at J,Post and The Times of Israel and alegemeiner et al.

        But lets play your game and start on a one for one basis until one side runs out of massacres.Guess who is going to be check mated first.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 3, 2018, 8:31 pm

        “I regard all innocent human lives to be of equal value.”

        But the guilty (and “Jon s” knows who they are) better watch out.

        “I repeat: no massacre of innocents on one side justifies a massacre on the other side.”

        That’s right, you want any number of Israeli massacres in return. Always supposing the people involved are “innocent”. That should always be considered before a massacre.
        You not-innocents will have to fend for yourselves before the judgement of Israel.

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 4, 2018, 7:47 am

        || jon s: … I repeat: no massacre of innocents on one side justifies a massacre on the other side. ||

        This leaves open the possibility that…
        – a massacre of not-innocents on one side justifies a massacre of innocents on the other side; and/or
        – a massacre of not-innocents on one side justifies a massacre of not-innocents on the other side.

        I prefer the idea of no-one massacring anyone at any time for any reason.

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 4, 2018, 3:24 pm

        eljay,
        What “condition” and what distinctions did I make?

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 4, 2018, 3:46 pm

        || jon s: eljay,
        What “condition” and what distinctions did I make? ||

        You qualified your objection to massacres with the word “innocent”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 4, 2018, 4:00 pm

        “What “condition” and what distinctions did I make?”

        Many times over, but right her for one:

        Innocent civilians and POWs should not be deliberately massacred by anyone whether by regular armed forces or by irregulars.”

        Those “civilians and POWs” deemed not innocent or even guilty better watch out.
        What are the Palestinians demonstrating near the fence not innocent of?

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 4, 2018, 4:34 pm

        eljay,
        I was assuming that we’re talking about innocent people. Children, unarmed civilians, POWs (soldiers who have surrendered) and such.
        Yes, there are people who do not qualify as “innocent”. If terrorists or criminals were shooting at civilians , would you object to law-enforcement personnel shooting back?

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 4, 2018, 6:37 pm

        || jon s: eljay,
        I was assuming that we’re talking about innocent people. Children, unarmed civilians, POWs (soldiers who have surrendered) and such.
        Yes, there are people who do not qualify as “innocent”. If terrorists or criminals were shooting at civilians , would you object to law-enforcement personnel shooting back? ||

        There you go again, imposing “conditions” and making distinctions. I would object to law-enforcement personnel committing a massacre of any group of people. No-one has a right to massacre anyone.

        You, on the other hand, seem to think that it’s acceptable for non-Jewish law-enforcement personnel to massacre Jews who – in the minds of those non-Jewish law-enforcement personnel and/or the legal system they represent – do not qualify as “innocent”.

        Leave it to Zionists to undermine (international) laws and human rights and the protections they are meant to afford all people including Jews.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        April 5, 2018, 1:49 am

        Johnny S again, who is on the “Left” and a Socialist by dint of being a practicing National-Socialist.

        Nice trick, Johnny:
        First declare “terrorist” whoever resists invasion by all means available, as sanctioned by Nuremberg and the UN Charter,
        Then declare legit the murderous goons who have absolutely no right to even begin being anywhere on the territory,

        Voilà! We are in the clear, massacring whoever we want in their own land, while keeping our sanctimoniousness intact.

        One should also consider that this “history teacher” is too bereft of history to be aware of the fact that he is reproducing, almost word for word, German statements about the benevolent protection of civilian populations –right after some of their massacres in France, Greece. etc

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 5, 2018, 2:06 pm

        Eljay,
        I don’t make any distinctions in condemning any massacre and any attack on innocent people, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, gender…
        I do make a distinction between innocent, unarmed, civilians and armed terrorists and criminals. Again, regardless of their identity.

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 5, 2018, 3:09 pm

        || jon s: Eljay,
        I don’t make any distinctions in condemning any massacre and any attack on innocent people, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, gender…
        I do make a distinction between innocent, unarmed, civilians and armed terrorists and criminals. Again, regardless of their identity. ||

        Got it:
        – I believe that no-one has a right to massacre anyone.
        – You believe that it’s OK to massacre people – non-Jews and Jews alike – as long as the perpetrators label their victims “not innocent” in advance of slaughter.

        That is truly disturbing.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 5, 2018, 6:49 pm

        “Yes, there are people who do not qualify as “innocent”.”

        True, but don’t you think we should let God “sort them out” after the massacre?

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 6, 2018, 5:31 am

        eljay,
        What’s truly disturbing is that you can’t acknowledge a distinction between innocent civilians on the one hand and criminals or terrorists on the other.

      • gamal
        gamal
        April 6, 2018, 10:03 am

        “What’s truly disturbing is that you”

        Jonny is that you think that there are people that you may legitimately massacre.

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 6, 2018, 10:08 am

        || jon s: eljay,
        What’s truly disturbing is that you can’t acknowledge a distinction between innocent civilians on the one hand and criminals or terrorists on the other. ||

        jon s, I don’t know if you’re only pretending to be dense, but I’ll give it another try:
        – I say it doesn’t matter who is or is not a criminal or a terrorist. No-one has a right to massacre anyone.
        – You say it’s acceptable to massacre people who have been determined to be criminals or terrorists.
        – If a determination were made that a group of Jews were criminals or terrorists, I would condemn the massacre of those Jews. You would defend the massacre of those Jews.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 6, 2018, 10:48 am

        Gosh darn it, “eljay”, if massacres are good enough for God in the Torah, they’re good enough for “Jon s”.

        Besides, it is simply not sensible to expect Jews to recoil at massacres. Having been so powerful and numerous and universally loved all through history, we don’t know what it’s like to be massacred. So we get a little insensitive.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 6, 2018, 11:27 am

        “What’s truly disturbing is that you can’t acknowledge a distinction between innocent civilians on the one hand and criminals or terrorists on the other.” “Jon s”

        “Jon s”, you should go back to saying “Arabs” or even “Palestinians” instead of “criminals” or “terrorists”. All this arble-garble about “not innocent” or “terrorists” or “criminals” is confusing.
        Just say “Arabs”, so we will understand the distinction.

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 6, 2018, 3:49 pm

        || Mooser: Gosh darn it, “eljay”, if massacres are good enough for God in the Torah, they’re good enough for “Jon s”. … ||

        Sure, but jon s is going to seem mighty anti-Semitic when he celebrates whatever “happy, kid-friendly, carnival-style holiday” results from a massacre of Jews who were deemed to be “not innocent”.

      • jon s
        jon s
        April 6, 2018, 4:33 pm

        eljay,
        Do you or don’t you acknowledge that there’s a difference between innocent civilians and criminals or terrorists?

        Let’s take an extreme example : picture an ISIS compound. There’s one building which serves as a barracks for the ISIS terrorists, a second building where they’re holding prisoners and hostages. Now imagine that you have the power to blow up those buildings. Are you saying that blowing up the first building is just the same as blowing up the second, because in both cases you’re perpetrating a massacre?

      • eljay
        eljay
        April 6, 2018, 5:48 pm

        || jon s: eljay,
        Do you or don’t you acknowledge that there’s a difference between innocent civilians and criminals or terrorists? … ||

        Of course I do. I also acknowledge that determining who is an innocent civilian and who is a criminal or terrorist can be (highly) subjective.

        || … Let’s take an extreme example : picture an ISIS compound. There’s one building which serves as a barracks for the ISIS terrorists, a second building where they’re holding prisoners and hostages. Now imagine that you have the power to blow up those buildings. Are you saying that blowing up the first building is just the same as blowing up the second, because in both cases you’re perpetrating a massacre? ||

        I’m saying neither building should be blown up because no-one has a right to massacre anyone.

        But what you are very stupidly, immorally – and anti-Semitically – saying is that if Israel were to withdraw from Occupied Palestine and the inhabitants of various formerly-Israeli, Jewish-only colonies were to remain in place and become belligerent against their new (Palestinian) government, the Palestinians would have every right to label those inhabitants “not innocent” and to massacre them.

        I seriously cannot comprehend why Zionists like you hate Jews so much.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        April 7, 2018, 12:18 pm

        “Let’s take an extreme example…”

        Nah, let’s not. Nobody wants to OD on the pilpuls you’re pushing.

        BTW, “Jon s” you big ol’ historian you, ever see any of the papers from the Nazi archives discovered after WW2? Every Jew sent to the camps was determined to be “not innocent” in just the same way (“let’s take an extreme example”) you just used to condemn Muslims. , oops, sorry, I mean ISIS.

        “Imagine that…” Shorter “Jon s”: ‘Scary, scary Muslims!’

  13. Donald
    Donald
    April 2, 2018, 8:40 am

    I suggest you guys do a post on Ríos Montt, who died yesterday, but if you don’t get around to it, here is a post at another blog.

    http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/04/efrain-rios-montt-dead-greatest-easter-ever

    I am not a fan of that blog, but some of their posts are good. Ríos Montt was a genocidal killer endorsed by Reagan,, whose army was trained by Israelis.

    • Keith
      Keith
      April 2, 2018, 10:45 am

      DONALD JOHNSON- “I suggest you guys do a post on Ríos Montt….”

      Interesting suggestion, particularly in view of the Israeli connection which your linked article briefly mentions. Below is a quote and link from a more detailed discussion of this connection.

      “From the 1980s to today, Israel’s extensive military role in Guatemala remains an open secret that is well-documented but receives scant criticism.

      Discussing the military coup which installed him as president in 1982, Ríos Montt told an ABC News reporter that his regime takeover went so smoothly “because many of our soldiers were trained by Israelis.” In Israel, the press reported that 300 Israeli advisers were on the ground training Ríos Montt’s soldiers.

      One Israeli adviser in Guatemala at the time, Lieutenant Colonel Amatzia Shuali, said: “I don’t care what the Gentiles do with the arms. The main thing is that the Jews profit,” as recounted in Dangerous Liaison by Andrew and Leslie Cockburn.” (Gabriel Schivone) https://electronicintifada.net/content/israels-shadowy-role-guatemalas-dirty-war/19286

  14. Vera Gottlieb
    Vera Gottlieb
    April 2, 2018, 11:25 am

    And I continue to be ashamed of my Jewish background. How so very sad that the persecuted have turned into the persecutors.

  15. just
    just
    April 3, 2018, 12:27 am

    It appears that Amira Hass had a similar idea for her latest horrifying column, Phil.

    “In Gaza, Israel Surpasses Its Usual Evil

    Israelis have become inured to historical associations; it’s no wonder they can justify lethal fire against unarmed demonstrators

    In the Gaza Strip, Israel shows itself at its worst. This statement in no way detracts from the evil, both deliberate and incidental, that characterizes its policy toward other Palestinians — in Israel and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. Nor does it lessen the horrors of its revenge attacks (aka reprisal operations) in the West Bank before 1967 or its assaults on civilians in Lebanon.

    Nevertheless, in Gaza, Israel surpasses its usual evil. There in particular it causes soldiers, commanders, bureaucrats and civilians to demonstrate behaviors and character traits that in any other context would be considered sadistic and criminal or, at best, inappropriate to a civilized society.

    Space suffices for only four reminders. The two massacres carried out by Israeli soldiers against Gazans during the 1956 Sinai war have fled our awareness as if they never happened, despite the documentation.

    According to a report by the head of UNRWA submitted to the United Nations in January 1957, on November 3, during the conquest of Khan Yunis (and in the course of an operation to collect weapons and to round up hundreds of men in order to find Egyptian soldiers and Palestinian combatants), Israeli soldiers killed 275 Palestinians — 140 refugees and 135 local residents. On November 12 (after the fighting had ended), Israeli soldiers in Rafah killed 103 refugees, seven local residents and one Egyptian. …

    Just a few months after the Gaza Strip was occupied in 1967, independent researcher Yizhar Be’er wrote, “We took practical steps to thin out Gaza’s population. In February 1968, Prime Minister [Levi] Eshkol decided to appoint Ada Sereni to head the emigration project. Her job was to find destination countries and encourage people to go them, without the Israeli government’s fingerprints being evident.

    “Sereni was chosen for the job because of her connections in Italy and her experience in organizing the ha’apala of Holocaust survivors after World War II,” he added, using the term for illegal immigration to pre-state Israel during the British Mandate.

    “At one of their meetings, Eshkol asked Sereni worriedly, ‘How many Arabs have you already dispatched?’” Be’er wrote. Sereni told Eshkol there were 40,000 refugee families in Gaza. “’If you allocate 1,000 pounds per family, it will be possible to solve the problem. Would you agree to solve the Gaza problem for four million pounds?’ she asked, and answered herself, ‘In my opinion, that’s a very reasonable price’” (Parot Kedoshot website, June 26, 2017). …

    In assaults on Gaza since 2008, the Israeli criteria for permissible, proportionate killing according to Jewish ethics have become clearer. An Islamic Jihad fighter who is sleeping is a suitable target. Hamas operatives’ families, including children, also deserve to be killed. So do their neighbors. So does anyone who boils water for tea on an open fire. So does anyone who plays in the police orchestra.

    In other words, Israelis have gradually undergone a process of immunization to historical associations. Therefore, it’s no wonder they can wholeheartedly justify lethal fire on unarmed demonstrators, and that parents are proud of their soldier sons who shot fleeing demonstrators in the back.”

    more @ https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-in-gaza-israel-surpasses-its-usual-evil-1.5974217

  16. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    April 5, 2018, 5:47 pm

    @jon s
    “I don’t make any distinctions in condemning any massacre and any attack on innocent people, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, gender…
    I do make a distinction between innocent, unarmed, civilians and armed terrorists and criminals. Again, regardless of their identity”

    So according to your argument Begin and Shamir should have at the very least served life imprisonment for their cold blooded massacre of innocent people including a UN Peace Envoy.
    Grateful for confirmation of this.

  17. CigarGod
    CigarGod
    April 8, 2018, 4:24 pm

    Good post, Phil…and additions by everyone else.
    I think it is a mistake not to include wounded in the casualty counts. This often quadruples the number and makes a bigger impact.
    Wounded might be better than dead in some cases, but many wounded are damaged for life.
    I don’t think we need to play the minimization game that everyone else plays.

    Btw, did anyone mention the U.S.S. Liberty?

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