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The real occupation is Zionism, Ahed Tamimi explains

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On Monday, the now legendary Palestinian teenager Ahed Tamimi was interviewed on Democracy Now! by Amy Goodman and Nermeen Shaikh.

And what an interview. 34 minutes, and the 17-year-old Ahed, who just got out of jail after 8 months for slapping an Israeli soldier, is as sharp as a knife, mild, succinct, exact, focused, warm but never overly emotional. She has a seriousness and a maturity that can be hard to find in many adults. It is just so inspiring. Israel has good reason to fear her. Not for her slapping soldiers really – but for her clear mind, that cuts through so much of the nonsense that Israel, and indeed Zionism, have managed to inculcate in the world as Hasbara, to complicate things so that they would not be resolved.

Ahed had some things to say about Zionism, very clear things.

AMY GOODMAN: You have made a distinction, Ahed, between Jews and Zionism. Can you explain the difference?

AHED TAMIMI: [translated] There is a huge difference between Judaism and Zionism. Judaism is a religion. You know, it’s just like Islam. It’s just like Christianity. But Zionism, that’s the occupation. That’s the killing. That’s what closes checkpoints. That’s what detains innocent people. That’s all Zionism that’s causing this conflict with Palestinians.

Let’s just pause there and look at this. I think it’s huge. Notice, Amy Goodman is asking about Jews, Ahed is answering about Judaism – so for Ahed this is clearly a non-personal issue, an ideological one. And she’s clear about what Judaism is – a religion. It’s separate to Zionism, which is indirectly understood as political ideology – the political ideology and policy that drives Israel. And what does that ideology do? It occupies. That phrase, “But Zionism, that’s the occupation” is worth further zooming in on. Because here, Ahed is saying, that this is not just what Israel and its Zionism do, it’s what they ARE. I have been trying to make this point many times in the past, for example in this piece titled “The issue isn’t the ‘occupation’, it’s Zionism” . Ahed is making it more concisely. She’s saying, it’s Zionism that is doing all this, causing all this conflict, and notably, she’s saying that it’s not Jews or Judaism as such that are doing it. It takes some moral fortitude to make that distinction, when you are confronted day in and day out by soldiers of the Nation State of the Jewish People.

‘Liberal-Zionists’ are going to have a hard time with this one. They have been insisting that the 1967 occupation is a thing in and of itself, which just happened at some point, and can ostensibly be reversed without addressing Zionism as such. In fact, they believe that reversing it may be essential to maintaining the Zionist Jewish State with its demographic ‘balance,’ that is, the demographic imbalance created by Israel’s initial mass ethnic cleansing and its preservation, creating the artificial Jewish majority, for the state to ostensibly be ‘Jewish and democratic’.

And yes, Ahed has a view about that bigger paradigm of refugees:

AMY GOODMAN: During the time that you were in prison during this last eight months, there was a major uprising in Gaza, the nonviolent Great March of Return that started March 30th. The Israeli military killed—at this point, I believe it’s more than 140 Palestinians, injuring something like 13,000, 14,000 people there. Can you talk about what your knowledge of what’s happening in Gaza is and what it meant to you in jail and to Palestinians on the West Bank?

AHED TAMIMI: [translated] The Great Return marches were launched from the time of the Nakba and continue until today. And the reality is that the people of Gaza are still continuing these marches. We hope that everyone, even here in the West Bank, and those outside, be part of the return marches, just like the ones in Gaza. It’s not just Gaza that has refugees, but there are Palestinian refugees everywhere, and they should return to their land, to their country.

Simple, right? Well, scores of people have been killed in the past months for protesting that right. As far as Israel is concerned, Ahed is advocating violence, and the ‘destruction of Israel’. So these are strong, resilient and brave words by Ahed. But Ahed is completely calm and natural about this. It’s not because she doesn’t know the price of protest – oh, she knows it all too well. She is simply fearless.

But back to Zionism. Ahed was describing the situation of other Palestinian prisoners, especially children:

[AHED TAMIMI]: There are over 350 children in prison, and three children who are under administrative detention. The conditions children endure in prison are very difficult. Prison isn’t for anyone. And the prison administration puts a lot of pressure on them, so it’s very difficult. I hope for the release of all prisoners, and especially children, as soon as possible.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Now, Ahed, following criticism, widespread criticism, Israel instituted a separate military court for minors, for children, in 2009. What, if anything, has changed since then?

AHED TAMIMI: [translated] Nothing’s changed. There are children who are in Israeli detention for over 10 years, children sentenced to 13 years, children sentenced to 14 years. The court just changed its name to a children’s court. The judge is still a Zionist judge. The court is still a Zionist court. It’s still a racist court. So nothing has really changed.

Pause there: “The judge is still a Zionist judge. The court is still a Zionist court. It’s still a racist court.”

It goes together with “Zionism, that’s the occupation”. The occupation judge is a Zionist judge. The occupation court is a Zionist court. And here comes an especially important one: The court is racist, because it’s Zionist.

That’s an idea that Zionists have especially feared – the claim that Zionism is racism. Israel’s UN Ambassador Haim Herzog famously ripped up the 1975 resolution that equated Zionism with racism.

People can go and argue about it, but Ahed is making it clear, from the moral high-ground of an occupied person who knows the Israeli occupation from when she was born, and who notably makes the critical distinction between Zionism and Judaism. She’s essentially saying, that Zionism is racist, but Judaism isn’t Zionism.

The ‘liberal-Zionist’ firewall against such notions has been to suggest that at some point, it would be operatively possible to sever Israel from its occupation. To call the occupation racist is generally not a big issue for them – they know it’s discriminatory on an ethnic basis, but they just suggest that it’s temporary.

But what if it’s not temporary? Then the occupation is part of Israel. The recently passed Nation-State of the Jewish People law is eroding the validity of the distinction of Israel and occupied territories with its “Eretz Israel” (‘Greater Israel’) notion and with its blatant dismissal of equality even within ‘Israel proper’, so people like Daniel Barenboim are now “ashamed of being Israeli”.

Yet Ahed is proud – proud of being Palestinian. And while she speaks with humility, she speaks with an aura of confidence, that she has nothing to apologize for in resisting the occupation. Even when she goes ballistic and slaps a soldier:

AHED TAMIMI: My goal wasn’t to hit him. I didn’t intend to hit him. He had shot my cousin in the head, and my cousin was going to die because of the injury. The soldier at the front of my house was shooting at children and young men in the street. I’m not the one that went to him. He’s the one that was at the front of my door.

Ahed is right. The soldier was the one occupying her property – literally her home yard. Israelis can go and complain about the humiliation they suffer because of that slap, but when you finally consider the humiliation and the murderous oppression suffered by people like Ahed, then you get that the Israelis are pampered. They complain about a slap, while Palestinians are dying. [N.b. Though grievously injured, Ahed’s cousin did not die of the head wound.]

Ahed Tamimi is now a definite symbol of Palestinian resistance. It’s first and foremost about being proud. And maintaining that pride is no small task, when the intrinsic purpose of those who oppress you is to humiliate you, so that you may be controlled more easily.

Ahed didn’t make the point about Zionism her main focus. It just came in passing really – she is mostly addressing realities on the ground. But I chose to stop on those words, because I think they are essential. Ahed is offering a conceptual way out of this conflict. Separate Judaism from Zionism. Because it’s “Zionism that’s causing this conflict with Palestinians”.

I think all Zionists know that this is true. They just choose to accept it being so. Because after all, if you have the privilege of being the master-race, then unequal conditions are tolerable. But not for Ahed. For Ahed that life is intolerable. And it’s because of Zionism.

About Jonathan Ofir

Israeli musician, conductor and blogger / writer based in Denmark.

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41 Responses

  1. Citizen
    Citizen
    August 9, 2018, 10:30 am

    Is there a synagogue in America that does not sport the flag of Israel inside it?

  2. Rabab Ibrahim Abdulhadi
    Rabab Ibrahim Abdulhadi
    August 9, 2018, 12:22 pm

    Sharp analysis by Jonathan Offir. Thank you.

  3. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    August 9, 2018, 2:22 pm

    ” Israel has good reason to fear her. Not for her slapping soldiers really”

    Not so sure about that. The most moral are terrified of existentially threatening stones all of which invoke the horror of actual physical injury such as a bruise or a scrape. So many horrendous reports of IDF officers being slightly wounded in “combat”. That`s not supposed to happen in a “Ziowar”. They must have nightmares about being “slapped” by tiny teenage “terrorists”. Poor diddums.

  4. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    August 9, 2018, 4:26 pm

    Author is really convinced that ahed states there is a difference between Zionism and jews? He thinks that’s “huge”? Is that a joke? This canard has been employed for over 100 years by opponents of the Israeli nation. And certainly many were Jews. The fact remains that the vast majority(yes, I stand by vast) of polling as well as general and anecdotal information has shown that between 80-90% of world Jewry (excluding the Jews in Iran who are not free to express Zionism without severe repercussions) identify as and support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish nation. Some estimates put the number at more then 90% . Whatever the exact number is the fact remains that those taking the stance that they are ok with Jews and Judaism but just hate Zionists is the most disingenuous admission of Jew hating in the past century. Basically, Ahed hates at least 80% of Jews worldwide. That was more then enough for the third Reich so the authors ‘amazing and HUGE’ insights into ahed as a future leader are nothing surprising to us. Another Ashwari, if she is even that intelligent. Remains to be seen.

    Then there are the other tens of millions of Christians that consider themselves at least partially or fully Zionist . That’s a lot of people top hate or defeat in war. As ridiculous as saying one only likes Palestinians are not in support of Hezbollah, Hamas,PA, Fatah Iran or PLO. Of course they are. Unless your ok with stating your not a racist bigot but you just hate political or nationalist Muslims which, afaik is a lot of Muslims then aheds statement is as racist as they come. Her family are masters of Palestinian hasbara, no more , even if that’s enough for them to Gartner the role of leadership.

    Also, the blatent staging of at least a few of aheds former engagements with idf is well known to many even if they were successful pr coups. She didn’t earn her nickname ‘Shirley Temper’ for no reason. But sure, I can see a big future for her as a leading figure to be carted around the world as Palestinian hasbara campaign

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      August 9, 2018, 5:59 pm

      @dabakr

      “. She didn’t earn her nickname ‘Shirley Temper’ for no reason. ”

      For sure. She earned it because a sick twisted group of racist murderous zionists made it up for her so they could belittle and make fun of a defenseless child. Sick degenerate zionists.

      “Can one hate 80% of Latino folks and not be racist? ”

      Can one hate 80% of nazis and not be racist? Can one hate 80% of Palestinians and not be a racist? Can one hate 80% of Arabs and not be racist?

      Yes I can hate 98% of individuals who sign onto zionism as their political belief set is putrid, inhumane and evil.

    • amigo
      amigo
      August 9, 2018, 6:51 pm

      ” I can see a big future for her as a leading figure to be carted around the world as Palestinian hasbara campaign” duhbaker

      Duhbaker , Hasbara is an Israeli construct .Palestinians tell the truth about Israel,s lies.They don,t have to resort to Hasbara.

      “The Israeli government encourages all citizens to actively engage in Hasbara. Recently, it even distributed brochures with talking points to all Israelis traveling abroad (a Hebrew web version of the campaign can be viewed here). Israelis are asked to engage in politically-oriented conversations with their hosts and contacts abroad. Rather than discuss the Palestinian conflict, they are advised to cite Israeli technological achievements, mention environmental policies and take pride in notable cultural works. The West Bank is to be discussed – under its ancient Hebrew name, Judea and Samaria – as a potential tourist marvel.

      Until a few years ago, the main government agency carrying out Hasbara work was the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, through its Media and Hasbara department. Under Ehud Olmert’s government, and more so under Netanyahu’s, there was a considerable increase in Hasbara efforts. Prime Minister Netanyahu has launched for the first time a Hasbara Ministry, headed by a government minister (the current hasbara minister is Yuli Edelstein). The Hasbara Ministry includes a situation room, which operates in five languages; it has a new-media team that can reach, according to the office’s web page, 100,000 volunteers on social media networks, as well as many bloggers.”

      https://972mag.com/hasbara-why-does-the-world-fail-to-understand-us/27551/

      Hasbara Fail Yossi.

    • eljay
      eljay
      August 9, 2018, 7:58 pm

      || @Daa: … The fact remains that the vast majority(yes, I stand by vast) of polling as well as general and anecdotal information has shown that between 80-90% of world Jewry (excluding the Jews in Iran who are not free to express Zionism without severe repercussions) identify as and support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish nation. Some estimates put the number at more then 90% . … ||

      I think it’s a shame that the “vast majority” of people in the world who choose to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish also make the conscious choice to be hateful and immoral supremacists (and, of course, hypocrites).

      || … Then there are the other tens of millions of Christians that consider themselves at least partially or fully Zionist . … ||

      I think it’s a shame that “tens of millions” of non-Jews make the conscious choice to consider themselves to be hateful and immoral Jewish (or pro-Jewish) supremacists (and hypocrites as well).

      I think it’s entirely unsurprising that a Jewish supremacist (Zionist) like TheBaker seems pleased by these numbers.

      I think it’s very sad and unfortunate – and rather anti-Semitic – that these tens of millions of Zionists wish deliberately to drag the vast minority of non-Zionist Jews down with them. Why do Zionists insist on hating Jews so much?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 10, 2018, 3:43 pm

        “I think it’s a shame that “tens of millions”…”

        There aren’t “tens of millions” of Jews in the entire world. Not even close.

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 10, 2018, 5:44 pm

        || Mooser: “I think it’s a shame that “tens of millions”…”

        There aren’t “tens of millions” of Jews in the entire world. Not even close. ||

        Maybe not, but “80-90% of world Jewry … Some estimates put the number at more then 90%… ” is a lot of hard, pipe-hittin’ (and Captain Israel underpants-wearing) Zionists.

    • Jonathan Ofir
      Jonathan Ofir
      August 10, 2018, 9:40 am

      DaBakr, do you notice how many times the word “hate” appears in your comment? Where did you get this from? It’s not in Ahed’s words.
      Your response is literally full of hate.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        August 10, 2018, 11:07 am

        Ms. Tamimi’s remarks don’t make sense unless she is articulately and sincerely of the opinion that Judaism, a religion, does not imply Zionism, a theory about secular rights and wrongs, and unless she strongly suspects that Zionism fully implies that all the suffering and wrongs that are involved in ‘the Occupation’ need to happen. I think she’s right about the second point – there isn’t really a version of Z that opposes the O in principle – that is because of the real or claimed Biblical element in the Z idea, bringing reference to the whole of Palestine and to the absolute necessity of implementing claimed Jewish rights.
        She may be right about the first but the argument, simply stressing that Judaism is as much a religion as is Islam or Christianity, doesn’t prove the point, since it quite possible for a religion to have implications about secular rights, wrongs and systems of government.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 10, 2018, 12:40 pm

        “Ms. Tamimi’s remarks don’t make sense unless she is articulately and sincerely of the opinion that Judaism, a religion, does not imply Zionism”

        She may not be mistaken about that. I’ve heard many Jews think so, too.

      • amigo
        amigo
        August 10, 2018, 4:16 pm

        “There aren’t “tens of millions” of Jews in the entire world. Not even close.” Mooser

        Excuse me , if Jews (alone) can decide what constitutes Antisemitism , then surely they can decide how many Jews there are.

        Be careful , the Washington State Friends of Israel will be on your tail and make Moose mince meat of you.Just ask J Corbyn.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 10, 2018, 5:53 pm

        “Excuse me , if Jews (alone) can decide what constitutes Antisemitism , then surely they can decide how many Jews there are.”

        You are right, “amigo”. I’ll set it back to 6-6.5 million, the number of Israel-certified Jews. Can’t say about the rest until they apply to Israel and see if they meet the specs.
        They may think they are Jewish, but Israel will tell them if they are right or not.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      August 10, 2018, 10:34 am

      @DaBakr

      Sigh. More bafflegab, your only “stock in trade.”
      It’s also patently obvious that Ehad Tamimi scares you and your ilk to death and for good reason. She and other young Palestinians like her are the future.

      BTW, here’s an extensive, recently published article about Ehad that will drive you nuts.

      https://theintercept.com/2018/07/31/ahed-tamimi-released-palestine-child-prisoners/

      The Intercept, July 31/18.
      “The Homecoming. How Ahed Tamimi Became the Symbol of Palestinian Resistance to Israeli Oppression.”
      EXCERPTS:
      “…if Israeli soldiers were hoping a show of force would remind Palestinians who’s in charge, Ahed Tamimi responded much like she did last winter, when she slapped and pushed a soldier who had broken into her backyard. ‘The resistance continues,’ she declared shortly after her release, as she visited the family of another young member of the Tamimi family, killed in June by soldiers. Swarmed by hundreds of cameras that followed her every step, she then paid tribute to the grave of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, before returning to a village that had been decked out with dozens of posters of her and her mother — but mostly her. Children, teenagers, and elderly relatives waited for her return among hundreds of activists and journalists, as music blasted from loudspeakers and relatives chronicled the family’s long history of resistance to the Israeli occupation. When Ahed finally arrived home, the crowd broke into triumphant cheers, dancing, and hugs.”

      “Ahed’s story drew rare attention to the plight of Palestinian children held in Israeli military prisons — an overwhelming majority of them over stone-throwing incidents or for participation in protests — and the sham court proceedings, abuse and threat-filled interrogations, and extracted confessions to which they are subject. In the weeks before Ahed’s release, The Intercept spoke with more than a dozen formerly imprisoned children, parents of children currently in prison, attorneys and advocates, as well as several members of the Tamimi family. They shared similar stories of predawn raids during which soldiers separated children from their families, physically and verbally assaulted them, blindfolded and handcuffed them, and drove them to interrogation centers where — almost always without an attorney or parent present — they were subjected to further abuse and forced to confess, before being summarily sentenced to months in prison.

      “The Israel Defense Forces, which were responsible for Ahed’s arrest, prosecution, and incarceration, as well as the detention of hundreds of other Palestinian minors, declined to answer The Intercept’s questions on the record.”

      You neglected to note a most important fact, i.e., ever increasing numbers of Jews around the world, especially youth, are abandoning Zionism and its spawn, the entity known as “Israel.” At the same time, emigration of Jews from “Israel” is exploding while immigration is in free fall.

      To wit:
      Times of Israel, June 21/17:
      http://www.timesofisrael.com/devastating-survey-shows-huge-loss-of-israel-support-among-jewish-college-students/
      https://www.haaretz.com/israel -news/.premium-jewish-agency- chief-warns-young-u-s-jews- more-turned-off-to-israel-1. 5751616

      Haaretz – Jan 22, 2018, by Judy Maltz
      “Young American Jews Increasingly Turning Away From Israel, Jewish Agency Leader Warns”
      “The Jewish Agency’s CEO and director-general called the trend ‘extremely worrisome,’ and said that a new strategy must be undertaken to engage young American Jews with Israel.”

      https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-progressives-welcome-aipac-is-all-just-gaslighting-1.5871623?utm_campaign=newsletter-daily&utm_medium=email&utm_source=smartfocus&utm_content=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.haaretz.com%2Fopinion%2F.premium-progressives-welcome-aipac-is-all-just-gaslighting-1.5871623
      “Why Young Jews and Democrats Are Waving Goodbye to AIPAC”
      “My generation has only known Israel as an occupier. We won’t back anyone who supports that injustice – including the powerful lobby that is AIPAC”
      By Emily Mayer, March 6, 2018 – Haaretz

      Newsweek– 5/10/18
      EXCERPTS:
      “Israel celebrates its 70th birthday in May with the opening of the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem. Yet the country is grappling with an existential crisis—one that doesn’t involve Iranian nukes or Palestinian protests. Spurred by the high cost of living, low salaries, and political and demographic trends, Israelis are leaving the country in droves, trying to build their lives elsewhere, mostly in the United States. Many of these young Israelis are moving to big cities, and yet, even in these often expensive places, they see more opportunities to advance.”

      “The available data is telling, analysts say. Between 2006 and 2016, more than 87,000 Israelis became U.S. citizens or legalized permanent residents, according to the most recent data from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. That’s up from 66,000 between 1995 and 2005. These figures take into account only those who took the legal route (many Israelis, analysts say, arrive on temporary tourist, student or work visas, then stay). And in addition to the Israelis now living stateside, according to the country’s Ministry of Immigrant Absorption, hundreds of thousands have moved to Europe, Canada and elsewhere.

      “The country’s brain drain isn’t new. For years, many of its most talented scholars and researchers moved to the U.S., where the salaries are far higher and there are more jobs at top-tier universities. One report by Dan Ben-David, an economist at Tel Aviv University, found that the emigration rate of Israeli researchers was the highest in the Western world. Recently, however, the exodus has expanded to include average young people, many of whom say there’s simply no future in Israel.

      “According to government data, 8 percent of Israelis work in high-tech, which pays up to seven times the national average salary of $2,765 a month (before taxes). Israel has one of the highest poverty rates and levels of income inequality in the Western world. Meanwhile, it also has one of the highest costs of living. Tel Aviv ranks ninth among the world’s most expensive cities, higher than New York and Los Angeles; five years ago, it ranked 34th. The situation is so dire that a 2013 survey by the financial newspaper Calcalist (the most recent Israeli study conducted on this topic) found that 87 percent of adults—many with children of their own—depend on substantial financial support from their parents.”

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        August 12, 2018, 4:00 am

        I think I know very well how Ahed became so popular. No need for your long treatise. I.e.

    • Stephen Shenfield
      Stephen Shenfield
      August 10, 2018, 4:04 pm

      The percentage does not matter. Even if it were as high as 99.9 she opposes them on account of their political ideology and not because they are Jews. Presumably she is equally opposed to non-Jews who support Zionism. There is no reason why she should take into account the percentage of Jews who are Zionists and how we assess her stance should not depend on that percentage.

      The Nazis regarded foreigners who opposed Nazism as anti-German. They could argue that the great majority of Germans supported the Nazi regime, therefore being anti-Nazi was the same as being anti-German. Were they right?

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        August 12, 2018, 4:01 am

        @ss

        The % doesn’t matter. that’s your best?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 10, 2018, 4:10 pm

      “Then there are the other tens of millions of Christians that consider themselves at least partially or fully Zionist .That’s a lot of people top hate or defeat in war.”

      ROTFLMSJAO!! Yes sir, if there is one thing a Zionist is sure of, it’s that when all the chips are down, philo-Semitic Christians will go to war to save them,( like they did in WW2.)
      They better, or the Zionists will call them anti-Semitic!

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      August 10, 2018, 7:59 pm

      That’s interesting. This comment from DB passes moderation. But when I draw out the logical implications of the comment, and advise DB on the counter-arguments needed to escape those implications, the moderators do not pass my comment. Are they fearful of logic, or do they want to prevent me from helping DB?

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 10, 2018, 10:08 pm

      Abubakr’s reaZioning:

      90% of Jews are Zionists
      Therefore fighting Zionism is racism
      a fortiori
      All Ali Baba’s 40 robbers are robbers.
      Therefore fighting robbery is racism.

      Some minds this Zionism is producing in the fourth generation.

    • Talkback
      Talkback
      August 12, 2018, 5:40 am

      DaBakr: “Whatever the exact number is the fact remains that those taking the stance that they are ok with Jews and Judaism but just hate Zionists is the most disingenuous admission of Jew hating in the past century. Basically, Ahed hates at least 80% of Jews worldwide.”

      Your obsession with “hate” is well known. You are so full of it that you need to project it.

      If Ahed actually would claim that she “hates” Zionists this doesn’t mean that she “hates” them because they are Jews, but because of what Zionists have been doing to Palestinians.

      But you need to dehumanize everyone who suffers from Zionism by accusing them of hating Jews. It’s pathetic and you know it.

      If you and your fellow Hasbarats need to suggest that what Zionists do to Palestinians is “Jewish” it is you who creates hatred towards Jews.

      DaBakr: “She didn’t earn her nickname ‘Shirley Temper’ for no reason.”

      Do Jews earn every name antisemites give them, too?

  5. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    August 9, 2018, 4:37 pm

    …..(cont.)… Can one hate 80% of Latino folks and not be racist?

    She also stated she had a fantastic time in Israeli jail. Singing, dancing, eating movies and interacting with all the women who support her. I guess she missed the opportunity to trash the prison system.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 9, 2018, 5:55 pm

      Shorter “DaBakr”: ‘Ahed Tamimi scares me to death.’

      • Misterioso
        Misterioso
        August 10, 2018, 10:38 am

        @Mooser

        “Shorter ‘DaBakr’: ‘Ahed Tamimi scares me to death.’”

        BINGO!!

    • bcg
      bcg
      August 9, 2018, 8:06 pm

      @DeBakr: When South Africa had apartheid I hated South Africa, when apartheid was dismantled I stopped hating it. Farshtaist?

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      August 10, 2018, 11:21 am

      It is very much possible to believe that 80% of a group considered to be a ‘race’ is badly mistaken about something and liable to do morally terrible things as a result of that mistake without appealing to prejudice against or negative perception of that group. Otherwise support for an idea within a racial group would prove the idea to be in effect right and that is contrary to all reason.

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      August 10, 2018, 5:55 pm

      She also stated she had a fantastic time in Israeli jail.

      So did Gilad Shalit apparently

  6. amigo
    amigo
    August 9, 2018, 6:39 pm

    “She also stated she had a fantastic time in Israeli jail. Singing, dancing, eating movies ” duh baker

    Is that another means of administering ziocaine.Is it done through Talking movies or the Silent type.

    It obviously did not work on Ahed.

  7. amigo
    amigo
    August 9, 2018, 7:12 pm

    “Can one hate 80% of Latino folks and not be racist?” duhbaker

    Well, if they stole 78% of your Historical Home then I guess rounding it up to 80% would be a good reason to hate them.You are claiming that 80 to 90 % of Jews are Zionist (provide evidence please) so if you are corrct then it is reasonable for Palestinians to hate 80% of Jews.

    “The fact remains that the vast majority(yes, I stand by vast) of polling as well as general and anecdotal information has shown that between 80-90% of world Jewry (excluding the Jews in Iran who are not free to express Zionism without severe repercussions) identify as and support the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish nation.” duhbaker

    By the way , general or anecdotal evidence is not evidence in any normal court.In ziosville , perhaps.

    http://baltimorechronicle.com/2010/010710Lendman.html

    Hasbara fail Yossi.

  8. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    August 10, 2018, 1:44 pm

    If Europe 1881 to 1939 had been a heavenly Diaspora a la America 2018, Zionism would seem frivolous. (What? Because of some line at the end of the seder, geopolitics should be set on its head?) But it was not so. The crisis of Jewish identity confronted by European nationalism of various stripes produced uncertainty, emigration and tumult. The urge towards independence for such a group in turmoil is natural and a sign of health. (No matter the resulting damage to the nongroup, an oppressed group has a natural duty to figure out how to undo the vulnerability and powerlessness it is experiencing.)

    Justifying Zionism’s birth does not suffice. Recognition of the harm done to the indigenous is the next step. It is confusing to keep 2 opposing ideas in one’s mind at the same time.

    The contours of a modus vivendi are not born of my brain as if a blank slate. Very specific history and borders exist before I apply my mind.

    The 67 war and the west bank territory is the specific history I have in mind. A land ruled and a population without citizenship. There is a loss of balance that demands a response.

    In fact ignoring 67 might be the superior world view and the end game envisaged is just beyond my ken or imagination. But 67 has been my focus for 50 years and so habitual thought patterns are understandable.

    The trajectory of Israeli policy opposes the dual worldview that I mentioned (justifying birth/recognition of harm). Besides I do not understand what end game they are envisioning.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 10, 2018, 3:34 pm

      “The trajectory of Israeli policy opposes the dual worldview that I mentioned (justifying birth/recognition of harm). Besides I do not understand what end game they are envisioning.”

      You don’t know that? Naturally, the end-game of the modern Jewish State will follow the traditional pattern. Why would you expect anything less?

    • amigo
      amigo
      August 10, 2018, 4:00 pm

      “It is confusing to keep 2 opposing ideas in one’s mind at the same time.” wandering Jew aka Yonah Fredman.

      What,s really confusing is to keep 2 opposing pieces of bread in your mouth at the same time.
      Am I being too “wry”.Forgive me , I am from the county Mayo.

      Btw, Yonah , it is said that being able to keep 2 opposing ideas in your at the same time ,is evidence of the begining of the prescence of intellect.

    • eljay
      eljay
      August 10, 2018, 5:42 pm

      || wondering jew @ August 10, 2018, 1:44 pm ||

      Blah, blah, blah…at the end of which you continue to support and defend Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine.

  9. carollang
    carollang
    August 10, 2018, 2:37 pm

    I’m not sure how one can separate the occupation from Zionism. The occupation happened because the Zionists who are colonial settlers have taken over the land, believing that they have the intrinsic right to do so because god ordained that they have it.

    The other thing that I may have a quarrel with, not sure, is that the author describes 1967 as the date when the occupation occurred. The NAKBA happened in 1948 and I therefore believe that the beginning of the occupation began then. The whole enterprise was a colonial settler state organized by the British but with the support, encouragement and backing of the Zionists who supported setting up a Zionist capitalist state.

    • Jonathan Ofir
      Jonathan Ofir
      August 11, 2018, 9:15 am

      Thanks carollang, I agree with you, and you will see that the first time I address ‘occupation’ (apart from the title, which is not my prerogative), it is addressed as ‘1967 occupation’. After that it is addressed as ‘occupation’, as Ahed also addresses it as that.

      This notion has also been my point in the very first article I had published here on Mondoweiss nearly 3 years ago: https://mondoweiss.net/2016/01/difference-between-occupation/

  10. Moe Odatalla
    Moe Odatalla
    August 13, 2018, 11:01 am

    Ahed spoke succinctly, and in her 5 breaths of explanation, we got this lovely breakdown article and lively conversation that helped me to get a better grasp on things like hasbara and bad statistics, as well as plenty of reference links.

    I also applaud those of you who staunchly defend simple logic and solid facts, keeping these conversations worth reading.

    Thank you,
    Moe 07014

  11. inbound39
    inbound39
    August 13, 2018, 7:09 pm

    When you look back to Europe where Zionism evolved you see no inclusion or involvement in Religion,Judaeism or otherwise. It wasn’t until the leadership realised they needed to include it to gain the numbers to create their vision of a State in Palestine. A LAND without people for people without a land.

    It was then they created the biblical links of European Jews to Palestine, ambiguous as they were. They used Judaeism and Christianity to push the idea to boost Zionist numbers. Nevermind most were Ashkenazi Jewish converts that had no historical link or genetic link to Palestine. The biblical and Judaeism tale gave everyone a link. Repeat a lie often enough and people tend to believe it was the required mindset.

    What confounds me is as the criminality of Israel has become more blatant ,obvious and cruel since Cast Lead 2008,Bensouda remains welded to her seat at ICC. When will she get off her backside and take long overdue action. This should have been nipped in the bud way before 2008. In 1947 to 49 we had Jewish Terrorist groups like Irgun and Sterngang -Lehi and Palmach exterminating Palestinians in village after village and in others were being forced out en masse and forced over the Jordanian Border. The fact US,Britain,France and Germany and Russia and China have sat back and done nothing…no sanctions ,no arrests, no real holding to account of Israel and its ongoing terrorism. Its disruption of Syria aided and abetted by America and Britain creating tens of thousands of refugees. Israel supported setting up rebel groups arming and feeding them and giving them training. How much is enough before ICC acts……HOW BAD DOES IT HAVE TO GET. Israel has declared itself Apartheid and the World heads stand motionless….gutless.

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