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The American Jewish establishment is terrified of Palestinians

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on 75 Comments

This is a very sad story. And it happens all the time now inside the American Jewish community, but it is particularly poignant right now.

This week the Palestinian political cartoonist Mohammed Sabaaneh, whose spirit cracked in an Israeli prison, is having a tour of New York, New Jersey and D.C., all in leftwing spaces. Sabaaneh tells us a compelling story about Israel and its power; but will any big Jewish space host him? Of course not! Some day maybe, in 50 years. (Though Eli Valley is appearing with him; wonderful.)

And meantime all week long in prestige Jewish spaces, what is the fare, but Israeli and American Jews wringing their hands about the future of Israel and the US Jewish relationship with Israel. The unending lament.

Mohammad Sabaaneh

First tomorrow night in New York at the Hebrew Union College, two Jews, Israeli and American, discuss: “A House Divided: Israel and Progressive American Jews.” Is either one of them even actually progressive? Former Israeli diplomat Ido Aharoni is founder of “the Brand Israel program,” which many Palestinians might see as the Brand Israel pogrom.

Then on Wednesday in a White Plains synagogue, there’s “Can Judaism survive the 21st century?” featuring an Israeli and American Jew, Tal Keinan and David Gregory, surely speaking about their differences.

Then on Thursday night in New York, “Across the Divide“: more fretting about American Jews abandoning Israel, this program featuring right-center Zionists Yair Rosenberg of Tablet and Bari Weiss of the New York Times, along with Batya Ungar-Sargon who represents perestroika at the Forward.

And really the only question about all these events is, Do you think you can have a discussion of the Jewish/American-Israeli future without hearing from Palestinians? I don’t. It would be like having a discussion of the future of the American South in 1964 with a bunch of white people. It’s privileged and incomplete.

I recognize that all these events are billed as Jews on Judaism or Israel. There’s no false advertising. But the segregated character of this discussion is unsustainable. You can’t just keep having one event after another featuring American and Israeli Jews in American Jewish spaces bellyaching to one another about what Israel will do without American Jews. When half the population under Israel’s governance isn’t Jewish and have to have a say in the matter.

These people really are terrified of Palestinians. American Jewish leaders have been demonizing Palestinians for 60 years and they believe their own shadow puppets, and so the comfort that American Jews have hosting black civil rights activists or radicals even is absent when it comes to hearing from Palestinians.

It goes back to the 70s, when Arthur Waskow and the good Jews of Breira were exposed by Wolf Blitzer, then of AIPAC and the Jerusalem Post, for having a secret meeting with the PLO. Breira fell apart after that. Or back to 1980 and the editor Leonard Fein daring to say he was opposed to Menachem Begin and suddenly all his financial support from “Jewish liberals” disappeared.

Or back to 2011 and the 92d Street Y cancelling an appearance by Dr. Izzeldin Abuelaish, who had lost three daughters to an Israeli attack on Gaza, because his Jewish Zionist co-speaker had canceled for reasons beyond her control, and his talk could no longer be “balanced.” The doctor had to speak at Cooper Union instead…

It goes back to 2012-2013 and the Hillel at Northeastern University cutting off sponsorship of a trip to Israel because “the itinerary includes time in the West Bank and visits with Palestinians, including in a refugee camp” (per Hannah Bernstein’s report). 

Jewish leaders are simply terrified of Palestinians. At some level they know, if they actually listened to one independent Palestinian, their whole world would collapse. Certainly their moral righteousness would fall in shreds.

And PS, the Lara Alqasem boomlet just proves what I’m talking about. The American Jewish community, and the liberal Zionists, rallied around the idea that a Palestinian-American student from Florida should be allowed to leave Ben Gurion airport where she had been detained for two weeks to pursue her studies at the Hebrew University. But they could only rally around her because she was an accommodating Palestinian. She’d renounced her support of boycott, BDS, she wanted to study at a great Israeli institution.

There is simply no ability inside American Jewish spaces to hear Palestinians on their own terms. And the consequences are just tragic, for Jews, for Palestinians, and for Americans too.

 

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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75 Responses

  1. Citizen
    Citizen
    November 11, 2018, 3:33 pm

    Jared Kushner was interviewed on primetime cable TV news show yesterday. He’s very good at an altar boy-like, very rational-sounding presentation. Seems he’s intent on solving the I-P conflict by giving the Palestinians an economic package they can’t refuse in return for firm Israeli state security. He was also asked about the Saudi Prince debacle and its impact on his strategy for the ME. Mouthed sentimental rhetoric meaning nothing.

  2. Bumblebye
    Bumblebye
    November 11, 2018, 4:36 pm

    Imagine a panel taking place tonight with a Palestinian. How could that person not feel duty bound to raise the fact of 6 deaths in Khan Younus to israeli special forces amid continual bombing within the last few hours. These panels cannot have their israeli/jewish only bubble pricked by awareness of the continual killing of Palestinians by their co-religionists.

    • John O
      John O
      November 12, 2018, 3:48 am

      I knew they’d do something outrageous when the world was looking elsewhere. I thought it would be the day of the midterms; but no, they left it until the centenary of the end of the Great War.

      • annie
        annie
        November 12, 2018, 4:52 am

        they left it until the centenary of the end of the Great War.

        my state is burning down

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        November 12, 2018, 5:49 am

        ‘my state is burning down’

        I’m horrified by the video of the fires in CA – it’s the stuff of nightmares; the devastation is unimaginable. I lived in Santa Barbara and Santa Monica for 3 years and they were the best times a midwestern girl can have on her own in the west coast for the first time. California is close to my heart. I hope you and your love ones are safe and out of harm’s way and these fires will be put out ASAP, in spite of tRUMP’s posturing.

      • CigarGod
        CigarGod
        November 12, 2018, 11:13 am

        100 million acres in California.
        So far about 2 million burned this year.
        Just read that pretty much all 100 million are smoked.
        Can’t help thinking about the dinosaurs…

      • John O
        John O
        November 12, 2018, 12:06 pm

        @Annie

        I hope you and your family and friends are safe. It looks – no, it is – horrendous. I see Neil Young blasted Trump today for his insensitive remarks.

      • annie
        annie
        November 12, 2018, 1:15 pm

        thanks john, marnie. yes i am safe. it’s just the whole range of the sierra’s and the motherlode is getting drier and drier every year. it used to be we’d worry about some big earthquake or the state falling off into the ocean. but as time goes on i really don’t know how we’re going solve the problem of less water in the sierras. the forests are drying up — or so they say.

      • annie
        annie
        November 12, 2018, 3:53 pm

        thank you magh. yeah, i have been reading about it for years. from what i have heard, the campfire was started by some downed or malfunctioning power lines. no one really knows how long they were sparking to set this off, but there wasn’t enough warning. apparently is swept through the town like a tsunami of fire. a major gust of wind or something. but by nov 12 we should have had more rain by now. also we need more snow, ice in the high sierras for the run off in the spring to carry us through the summer months. the air outside is phenomenally dense, every breath is a reminder of what’s happening. anyway, i am off topic. thanks everyone.

    • Elizabeth Block
      Elizabeth Block
      November 12, 2018, 8:13 pm

      It’s not only Palestinians who can’t get heard in Jewish institutions.

      Several years ago the late Hajo Meier, octogenarian Holocaust survivor, was on a speaking tour. Topic: Never Again For Anyone. No Toronto synagogue, no Toronto mainstream Jewish organization, would give him a platform. He spoke at the Winchevsky Centre (secular Jews) and at Quaker House. And local Jews called him an anti-Semite.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        November 12, 2018, 10:52 pm

        Zionism has been THE Jewish project since at least 1967

        Think of all the energy invested.

        Harry “Rabbit” Angstrom , from the Rabbit books by Updike:?

        « Pru and Roy and Nelson retreat into their room and he sits a while and watches while Judy, the remote control in hand, bounces back and forth between The Cosby Show, some ice capades, and a scare documentary about foreigners buying up American businesses, and then between Cheers and a drama about saving a fourteen year-old girl from becoming a prostitute like her mother. So many emergencies, Harry thinks, so much canned laughter, so many actors’ tears, all this effort to be happy, to be brave, to be loved, all this wasted effort. »

        All this wasted effort spent supporting Israel. Very few Jews want to acknowledge this. So they pretend everything is fine and exclude Palestinian voices. This is why systems collapse.

  3. Keith
    Keith
    November 11, 2018, 5:11 pm

    PHIL- “But the segregated character of this discussion is unsustainable.”

    Unsustainable? Why, because you say so? I see no evidence of change anytime soon. I see little prospect for change within the framework of empire.

    PHIL- “At some level they know, if they actually listened to one independent Palestinian, their whole world would collapse.”

    You have it backwards. Their whole world will have to collapse BEFORE they listen to Palestinians. Currently, their ideological construct is working for them and they have no reason to change.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      November 12, 2018, 11:00 pm

      Keith

      The Fed is raising interest rates and debt is 60% higher than in 2008. The US is essentially bankrupt. Goldman Sachs is struggling. The Fed doesn’t model debt and fiat money could collapse. Israel is heavily exposed to a dying system.

      « The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.-«  Dornbusch

  4. Keith
    Keith
    November 11, 2018, 5:38 pm

    PHIL- “There is simply no ability inside American Jewish spaces to hear Palestinians on their own terms.

    Not just Palestinians either.

    “Obviously this decision is a result of the recent flap over anti-Semitic comments posted from the Free Gaza Movement Twitter account. That incident has prompted a lot of soul searching inside the movement for Palestinian human rights, because it showed that a significant part of the community wants to talk about Israeli policy in the context of Jewish history and Jewish identity, and do so in a highly critical manner. Clearly a lot of people, including many in our community, want to have these conversations and regard them as necessary to resolving the Middle East conflict. We don’t. We are tired of serving as a platform for this discussion, including in the comment section, and don’t see the conversation as a productive one. From here on out, the Mondoweiss comment section will no longer serve as a forum to pillory Jewish culture and religion as the driving factors in Israeli and US policy.” https://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/changes-to-the-mondoweiss-comment-policy/

  5. bcg
    bcg
    November 11, 2018, 10:52 pm

    Maybe even more astounding than the lack of acknowledgement in the Jewish community of, you know, THOSE people, is how even certain famous Jews are ignored if they don’t say the right thing.

    “He warned his listeners against the euphoria that had swept the Jewish world in the aftermath of the Six Day War. Ben-Gurion insisted that all of the territories that had been captured had to be given back, very quickly, for holding on to them would distort, and might ultimately destroy, the Jewish state. ”

    https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1987/05/28/israel-the-tragedy-of-victory/

  6. Keith
    Keith
    November 12, 2018, 12:21 am

    PHIL- “There is simply no ability inside American Jewish spaces to hear Palestinians on their own terms.”

    When it comes to an honest discussion, Mondoweiss is a fraud. Is it still your website, or have you turned it over to the “liberal” Jews with deep pockets?

    • annie
      annie
      November 12, 2018, 5:23 am

      have you turned it over to the “liberal” Jews with deep pockets?

      mondoweiss publishes palestinian voices too. have you thought about an honest discussion on Haidar Eid’s thoughts? https://mondoweiss.net/2018/11/what-gaza-wants/

      As we, Palestinians of Gaza, embark on our long walk to freedom, we have come to the conclusion that we can no longer rely on governments; instead, we request that the citizens of the world oppose these ongoing deadly crimes. The failure of the United Nations and its numerous organizations to condemn such crimes proves their complicity. We have also come to the conclusion that only civil society is able to mobilize to demand the implementation of international law and put an end to Israel’s unprecedented impunity. Our inspiration is the anti-apartheid movement. The intervention of civil society was effective in the late 1980s against the apartheid regime of White South Africa. Nelson Mandela, before his eminent death, and Archbishop Desmond Tutu, amongst other anti-apartheid activists, did not not only describe Israel’s oppressive and violent control of Palestinians as Apartheid, they also joined this call for the world’s civil society to intervene again.

      you can choose to chalk this up as “liberal” Jews with deep pockets, or not. it’s on the front page right now. what does “hearing palestinians on their own terms” have to do with your frustrations with mondoweiss? anything?

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 12, 2018, 1:58 pm

        ANNIE- “… your frustrations with mondoweiss?”

        My frustrations have to do with the comments section. This is my second reply to your comment. Who is the head moderator? Bruce Wolman?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 12, 2018, 3:09 pm

        ” This is my second reply to your comment.”

        See that? In spite of all your disparagement, the Mods still look out for you.

      • annie
        annie
        November 12, 2018, 4:25 pm

        keith, you’d have to ask someone other than me but as far as i am aware bruce doesn’t work for us. i guess i am still not clear why you jettisoned from hearing Palestinians on their own terms to complaining about the comment section. but your archives make it fairly clear you’re not very interested in discussing palestinian views. fair enough.

        anyway, i went over to your blog and saw you posted your rejected comments there. i’m curious why you don’t just write a post about these ideas that keep getting rejected on your own blog? anyway, i will respond to you over there.

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 12, 2018, 8:32 pm

        ANNIE- “keith, you’d have to ask someone other than me but as far as i am aware bruce doesn’t work for us.”

        I was being somewhat facetious. Apparently you don’t remember Bruce going after me when I first began commenting and Bruce had a somewhat official role.

        ANNIE- “i guess i am still not clear why you jettisoned from hearing Palestinians on their own terms to to complaining about the comment section.”

        I thought that discussing restrictions on non-Jews in general was quite appropriate. As it is the message is do as I say not as I do. And I am not the only Gentile who has moderation problems when the comment appears to the moderator to conflict with current kinship memes.

        ANNIE- “but your archives make it fairly clear you’re not very interested in discussing palestinian views. fair enough.”

        This is a cheap shot trying to make it appear that I am unconcerned about the Palestinians. Not true. Before the comments section got changed, I recall having over 3000 comments over 8 (?) years. You did a comprehensive review of my acrchives? BS. I comment on what interests me and when I feel I can contribute. I comment less now than initially. There is very little that I can contribute to these never ending tales of woe.

        ANNIE- “i’m curious why you don’t just write a post about these ideas that keep getting rejected on your own blog?”

        What an odd suggestion. I comment on Mondoweiss articles and Mondoweiss comments. Where better to do that than in the Mondoweiss comments section? I only began posting rejected comments on my Blogspot recently when the rejections became so ludicrous that I got pissed off. I believe that Eva Smagacz and helen4yemen have also been having problems. I responded to your comments on my blogspot in some detail. Be aware that when I delete the post in several days (if no new rejections) that both your comments and my response will disappear. And I have no intention of altering the format of Keith’s NO EMPIRE Blog to include current events.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        November 16, 2018, 2:20 am

        what does “hearing palestinians on their own terms” have to do with your frustrations with mondoweiss?

        I’ll try and help sort this out (not that Keith authorized me to sort anything out, but I’ll try anyways), with a couple of points:

        1. Yes, MW has given plenty of space to Palestinians voices and kudos for that. But have you noticed how few comments those articles gather? surely not because the stories are not poignant enough or not relevant. The reason is much simpler – there is next to nothing anyone feels they can do about some of those very sad stories 9and they are nearly always sad. tragic even). There is no disagreement on the facts. There are no questions to be raised. There are only lamentations and empathy to offer (and again, it’s great that some do that). Frankly, we all know we are witnessing an enormous tragedy in the making. We also have very little to offer in the face of it other than words of comfort, which not everyone is good at finding. We, and MW, are basically serving as witnesses. Just as some did to that other Holocaust that happened many decades ago.

        2. That being said – the overarching feeling by most who read MW is that the Palestinians can only be helped from without – by changing the hearts of American jews and shocking them with well administered doses of reality. Basically – ask anyone who cares about what’s happening to the palestinians and they will tell you that it is largely up to the Jews of the world to get enough conscience to do what needs to be done, to set a new tone to the discourse. The jews and their leaders are needed to help America out of the conundrum of knee-jerk support of israel. I know the many Americans who are not Jewish have of course a big role to play as well, and some do try their utmost. But most (the majority) are terrified of coming out against the prevailing jewish voice because – stupid or otherwise, they fear the anti-semite label. MW is one of the few places to which commenters come – Jewish and not – who are willing to say it like it is, or at least they used to. because the finger of blame points not only at israel but at its No. 1 enablers who continue to cover for its worst atrocities and misdeeds.

        So, I guess my interpretation of keith’s comment is that by abandoning the discussions about Jewish history and culture as contributing factors to the great evil that israel is perpetrating, MW may be relinquishing the only battleground where at least some modest victories can be had. Phil’s pieces – like this one – seem to be among the few taking on the Jewish discourse in America in all its distortions of the narrative about palestine and Israel.

        I realize that the discussions about jewish culpability in the atrocities israel is committing can become toxic rather quickly. But perhaps the toxicity itself is a critical part of the problem. The Jewish movers and shakers and opinion writers like nothing more than to continue and wring their hands about the “sad state of affairs” while doing nothing of substance. Ultimately, it is the Jews that must first turn on Israel, because only then will others who are not Jewish dare to protest en mass. Enough so to have the least impact on Israel.

        The proof of what I say is really right before us as we speak – look at the pressure exerted on the four new progressive house members. Just look at it. Yes, it’s coming from AIPAC that no one here tracks with, but it wouldn’t succeed if many more who are not AIPAC were not so silently sheepish.

        FWIW, I kind of miss the old vibrant and rowdy comment section of MW. It may have not always been pleasant but it fulfilled a purpose, IMO. Where else could such discussions take place? and must we all be basically reduced to an endless litany of lamentations?

      • annie
        annie
        November 16, 2018, 8:01 pm

        thanks danaa, for your efforts and because of your comment i just saw keith’s above you. i hear you, lots of people don’t like the comment policy and it’s not something in my purview. this conversation is now on 2 threads. i’d advise writing adam/phil about it regarding policy change. if i had an i/p blog, i’d be tempted to make them zionist free zones, but then you’d have the purists way above my intel level explaining how anti zionism is zionist, or something. and that conversation would go on endlessly.

        MW may be relinquishing the only battleground where at least some modest victories can be had. Phil’s pieces – like this one – seem to be among the few taking on the Jewish discourse in America in all its distortions of the narrative about palestine and Israel.

        phil writes about this stuff all the time. there’s a whole world wide web out there to pick up this conversation, so the idea MW is relinquishing “the only battleground” just doesn’t make sense to me. just link back to his articles and discuss them if you can’t here. my observations lead me to believe lots of jews almost always want to talk about jewish culture and history, often times obsessively. and as a non jew i have a limited capacity/intrigue. yes, it’s interesting — up to a point.

        keith, when i wrote “fair enough”, i meant it. and i assume for reasons danaa articulated. when i wrote “your archives make it fairly clear you’re not very interested in discussing palestinian views” was not a “cheap shot”. it was merely my interpretation of reality based on your archives. i don’t think you’re unconcerned about the Palestinians, i just don’t think your concern involves dialoguing about it. if i’m wrong so be it. but there was no intent towards negative implication.
        personally, i’ve always liked your commentary and thought it added to the discussion. my suggestion would be to write adam. give him some examples and ask why. i wouldn’t be the one to ask because, for the most part, i don’t object to your comments even tho i might not agree with everything you say.

        the overarching feeling by most who read MW is that the Palestinians can only be helped from without – by changing the hearts of American jews and shocking them with well administered doses of reality. Basically – ask anyone who cares about what’s happening to the palestinians and they will tell you that it is largely up to the Jews of the world to get enough conscience to do what needs to be done

        danaa, your sentiments regarding over arching feelings by most who read mondoweiss i can’t argue against because i do not know. but the rest of it i fundamentally disagree with on so many levels. i think the very reason we’re in this mess is because the rest of us are not standing up enough. ideas like yours (and i think phil agrees w/you as do perhaps most american jews), lead directly to the very idea we can’t change course as a nation over this issue, unless we’re following a jewish lead. it’s not primarily up to the jewish world to get a conscience, it’s up to the american polity to get a conscience. because nothing will change until we change as a nation. that won’t be up to a minuscule minority, and believing it will amounts to a capitulation to the whims of that community. the very act of changing the definition of anti semitism is part of a dare i say conspiracy to silence critics. now you tell me, why silence non jewish critics if the only critics who matter are the jewish ones? you have to change the masses. if you think the dem party is turning in large percentages, that is not solely due to the left in the jewish community. and once the evangelicals flip (and they will as this younger generation of them is moving in that direction) then israel’s going to have a real problem on it’s hands. and evangelicals won’t be flipping because jews told them too, they will follow their own leaders, heavily influence by people like Naim Ateek aka sabeel. these kinds of movements grow from the bottom up. but i’ve been to some of these conferences, one in my community with literally hundreds of nuns, church groups, bds groups. yes the young jews are awesome, yes their demonstrations are awesome, yes the press hears them and the jewish community really hears them and frets about them, but there are other factors influencing the masses. it’s those consciences, those seeds that are passed on from parent to child, pastor to congregants, from campus friends to other friends and the list goes on. that’s my opinion anyway. and the implication (and maybe it was not what you meant) that hearing palestinians on their own terms somehow leads to “reduced to an endless litany of lamentations” is not my experience. i actually think we are engaged in a palestinian led movement.

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 16, 2018, 3:39 pm

        DANAAA- “I’ll try and help sort this out (not that Keith authorized me to sort anything out, but I’ll try anyways), with a couple of points:”

        Always good to read your comments on Mondoweiss, something which I miss of late. As usual, I more or less agree with what you said. My problem is that of late too many of my comments were being rejected even though they did not violate either the written guidelines or the unwritten guidelines which were published once but are not reflected in the written comments policy. My rejected comments touched upon the lack of empirical support for many of these claims of anti-Semitism and violence against Jews, particularly how they compare RELATIVE to other groups. Marnie successfully commented on this issue on 11/15/18 on the JVP tells Cory Booker thread using much stronger language than I used. https://mondoweiss.net/2018/11/criminalize-defending-palestinian/comment-page-1/#comment-934611 Good for her! Unfortunately, I get the feeling that the messenger may count as well as the message. There are those, in Yonah Fredman’s interesting phraseology, who are “born to the discussion.” Then there is me, an uppity interloper poking my nose into the tent where I don’t belong. No joke. You can say things which I cannot and I hope you continue to do so.

        There is another aspect to this as well. Even as my leash gets tighter, the Zionists are running amok. One of the Zionists recently claimed that “racist” Palestinians ethnically cleansed the Jews from Gaza. Another that anti-Zionist Jews will soon have their throats cut in parking lots. These pass moderation yet mine have problems? As things now stand, with the increase in Zionist commenters and tightened restrictions on anti-Zionists, the Mondoweiss comments section is becoming an effective platform for Zionist memes. I should add that some of these memes appear to resonate strongly with some anti-Zionist groups and with many anti-Zionist commenters.

        I share your fondness for at least some of the old days in the comments section where “spirited” discussions did occur, reflecting healthy disagreements to be talked about. These frequently were disagreements among the anti-Zionist commenters myself included. I will conclude on that note and hope this comment passes moderation.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        November 16, 2018, 8:26 pm

        Unfortunately Hitler gave antisemitism a bad name. and the word jew hatred is only worse. i think that viewing the jews as a distinct national or economic class that is antagonistic to other national or economic groups (particularly if one puts it in historical perspective without painting with too wide a brush) is a viable argument.

        i think this web site is devoted to the palestinian cause, but it contains vestiges of phil’s “curiosity” regarding jewish identity. the mondoweiss about page changed four or five years ago and edited out a few of the lines regarding jewish perspective and changed the perspective to pro palestinian.

        i think jewish identity having a national component is something that is denied because it is inconvenient. i think that many people opt out of jewish identity both religious and national and that is fine, regarding such things it’s silly to argue. everybody has their own perspective, but to deny that a large chunk of those who call themselves jews see a national angle to the identity is undeniable, even for those who divorce themselves from that aspect or from all aspects of jewishness.

        I think chaim gans’s perspective regarding Palestinians and Jewish nationalists is the best one that I’ve heard and unfortunately this is not the primary stream of zionism that has dominated the politics or the mindset from day one and certainly not today. i think proprietary zionism is a negative mindset and gans’s egalitarian zionism should be a lighthouse sending out a beacon to those yehudim who see the national aspect of their yehudi identity.

        I think that phil is trying to influence the conversation and i think those of you who have animus against jews make the comments section look a little swinish from time to time and i don’t think that helps phil feel like part of the meaningful conversation.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        November 17, 2018, 2:37 am

        ANNIE, thanks for taking the time to reply. Your perspective is always welcome, even when I disagree with some of the coloring, if not the essence.

        it’s not primarily up to the jewish world to get a conscience, it’s up to the american polity to get a conscience. because nothing will change until we change as a nation. that won’t be up to a minuscule minority, and believing it will amounts to a capitulation to the whims of that community. the very act of changing the definition of anti semitism is part of a dare i say conspiracy to silence critics.

        I do understand where you are coming from, and I would be the last person to discourage non-Jewish Americans from participating and hopefully influencing, the conversation. But that last word “conversation” is where I see the problem, because to me it seems that that’s all we are doing – having a conversation. may be a debate. You seek what’s nowadays called “influencers” I think among run of the mill Americans. So they can share their budding conscience about what’s really being done to the palestinians, and the worse that is in the planning. I wish I could agree with you that we, as Americans, could change enough as a nation to resist the untoward nefarious influence of a troublesome minority, the worst of the Jews. The worst who we hear from often, or we see rise to positions of power, like one jared Kushner. No great intellect there, but he does represent an influencial group among the jews. And as we can all see, he is now married into the presidency. The Americans hear and see a heck of a lot more from Kushner than of Chomsky, don’t they?

        You know many good and caring Americans of heart and conscience. But unfortunately that’s not the majority, and as someone who just recently had a raucous debate with a Christian zionist, I can honestly claim I see little hope of revisionism there. Last I heard there are 20 millions of them and they all believe in the second coming preceded by the apocalypse, which strangely enough, they are OK with.

        personally I feel that sometimes good people fall into the trap of buying into hope and change. Didn’t we all buy into that not so long ago? You may know many great people, but perhaps not enough of the not so great ones, the ones that really can’t be bothered with complicated stuff, like conscience.

        I do, Btw, often have this kind of discussions with people on the Progressive side. The left-of-bernie people who reject identity issues as the main course, opting for the economic equations instead. They too hope against hope. To them too I appear as a modern day cassandra. Predicting defeats while battles are still waged. It is an unfortunate predicament to be the one who has to offer dire prognosis even as I support any and all who fight the good fight.

        So, I pick my battles where I feel there are some wins to be had. And those happen to be on the jewish side. Which I treat as the “influencers” in the battles of the narratives. Those wins Btw, minor though they may be, are there precisely because I also know where the vulnerable spots are. And those are found in the collective history, the tribal ties that bind and the narratives that tie religion to culture to history and to fears both rational and otherwise.

        now you tell me, why silence non jewish critics if the only critics who matter are the jewish ones? you have to change the masses.

        No-one is suggesting silencing non-Jewish critics. The opposite is true. I, unlike many around here, rather welcome their perspectives. I just think they operate from a position of weakness precisely because their comments can be disappeared, their voices misinterpreted and their motivations forever questioned (which I’m sure you have run into). This is exactly the situation Keith was complaining about with regard to his held up comments. Not knowing what those were, I’ll hazard a guess that I made much worse, without a problem.

        You may laugh away specious ccusationsof some would-be ‘anti-semitism”, but apparently many people don’t. It hurts them and they more often than not turn away from the unpleasantness of it all. Yes, they’ll be there to support the cause, but they’ll do so silently, and only when when someone else leads the way.

        once the evangelicals flip (and they will as this younger generation of them is moving in that direction) then israel’s going to have a real problem on it’s hands. and evangelicals won’t be flipping because jews told them too, they will follow their own leaders, heavily influence by people like Naim Ateek aka sabeel.

        I know quite a few evangelicals young and old where I live now. I see little signs of anyone turning. The best I can say is that their numbers don’t seem to be increasing. But that’s a conversation for another day.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 17, 2018, 8:17 am

        || wondering jew: … i think jewish identity having a national component is something that is denied because it is inconvenient. … to deny that a large chunk of those who call themselves jews see a national angle to the identity is undeniable … ||

        Who denies that “a large chunk of those who call themselves jews” desire Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine? It’s undeniable.

        || … i think proprietary zionism is a negative mindset and gans’s egalitarian zionism should be a lighthouse sending out a beacon to those yehudim who see the national aspect of their yehudi identity. … ||

        Egalitarian Zionism may be a dim flashlight compared with the darkness that is hard-core Zionism, but it’s still supremacism.

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 17, 2018, 10:51 am

        WONDERING JEW- “…those of you who have animus against jews make the comments section look a little swinish from time to time….”

        The “animus” against Jews is mostly in your mind and is a core component of Judeo-Zionist ideology.

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 17, 2018, 11:39 am

        DANAA- “To them too I appear as a modern day cassandra. Predicting defeats while battles are still waged. It is an unfortunate predicament to be the one who has to offer dire prognosis even as I support any and all who fight the good fight.”

        Jeez, can I relate to that! I am filled with dark foreboding in regards to the future of humanity and occasionally give vent to my dark visions in comments. I feel the need to do so, yet worry that I am spreading doom and gloom.

        With all due respect to Annie, for those of us without access to mega $billions, influencing the masses is a pipe dream. The manufacturing of consent is the province of those with vast resources, the ones who control the global political economy. There are other factors as well which are well beyond the limits of this comment. The one thing I would add is that Mondoweiss has too narrow a perspective. It is one thing to focus on Israel/Palestine, but the problem exists within the larger context of the global political economy and the geopolitics of empire as well as Zionism as a strategy to accumulate power. And, once again, my own views are profoundly pessimistic and I find myself wallowing in doom and gloom. I continue to be surprised by how much your views seem to parallel mine.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 17, 2018, 12:01 pm

        “Unfortunately Hitler gave antisemitism a bad name.” “wondering jew”

        And that is why Zionism struggles constantly to give antisemitism a good name! How dare Hitler destroy something so sacred, and useful!

        Don’t worry “Yonah”, it is for certain that Zionism will reestablish antisemitism’s good name and utility.

      • catalan
        catalan
        November 17, 2018, 12:48 pm

        “I am filled with dark foreboding in regards to the future of humanity” Keith
        I assume you are mortal and it seems an atheist. Therefore, unless humanity ends in the next couple of decades, your anxiety is unfounded.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 17, 2018, 1:18 pm

        “and gans’s egalitarian zionism should be a lighthouse sending out a beacon to those yehudim who see the national aspect of their yehudi identity. …”

        Oh, I see, while Israel treats us with contempt, it’s our job to fix Israel? And BTW, that “yehudi identity” went out with the Nation-State Law. You expect the diaspora to knuckle under to the Orthodox?

      • annie
        annie
        December 3, 2018, 4:58 pm

        danaa November 17, 2018, 2:37 am, i just saw your comment, so sorry about that. ckg just left a link i was referencing on another thread, and for the first time i read something in the msm which i had yet to encounter, about americans not understanding what we get from this deal w/israel. it was mentioned twice in the article, the first time under the photo caption

        a general lack of awareness of how the relationship between the two countries benefits America.

        https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/article222519225.html

        it’s one of these handwringing articles, but this is exactly the sort of thing that catches on and can really change the american peoples perceptions. there’s a lot of talk about how we can pay for all these things and people like ocasio cortez have mentioned ‘well gee, we sure find the money for war’ . the money we give israel is a lot and it seems normal that at some point people (many of them) will ask, gee, what do they do for us exactly? this kind of sentiment could change the masses.

        and about those evangelicals. i’ve read a fair amount about the youth, there are certain popular evangelical pastors going in a different direction. the christ at the checkpoint people, a lot of them are evangelicals. and they have a popular magazine. i will go look around for it.

      • annie
        annie
        December 3, 2018, 5:11 pm

        the last time i researched this was over a year ago so the sources i found were different ones but with the same message. this is more recent, from october https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-battle-over-young-evangelicals-views-on-israel-could-make-the-future-of-u-s-policy-1.6570646

        The Battle for Young Evangelicals’ Views on Israel Could Determine the Future of U.S. Policy
        Millennial Evangelicals are not as automatically supportive of Israel as their parents’ generation was. Evangelical groups are taking action – some trying to secure young Evangelicals’ love of the Jewish state, others to get them to learn about Palestinians

        and here are just a few clips:

        A battle is being waged in Christian Evangelical communities over the future of their support for the Jewish state. Polls show that young Evangelicals don’t support Israel with their parents’ level of enthusiasm, and Christian Zionists are putting up a fight. Other Evangelical groups increasingly see Israeli policies clashing with their faith, and they too are taking action.
        …..

        A survey from December 2017 found that American Evangelicals under 35 are less likely than their elders to offer strong support for Israel, and are more likely to have a critical view of the country and its policies.

        …..
        Rev. Mae Elise Cannon is executive director of “Churches for Middle East Peace”, a group of Christians from different denominations who support a two-state solution and oppose Israeli settlements in the West Bank. An Evangelical millennial herself, she told Haaretz that she believes her generation is ready for a change when it comes to the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

        “Millennials in our community care very much about global issues” she says. “They care about justice, poverty, human rights. We’re seeing millennials across the Christian spectrum demanding their leaders practice what they preach. And that also means not calling for a one-sided approach on Israel-Palestine. This mentality of supporting one side or the other is wrong. We need to look for ways to support both and promote peace between them.”

        The December 2017 poll showed that young Evangelicals are receptive to this kind of message. While 58 percent of respondents said they support Israel, 66 percent said that the Evangelical church should “do more to love and care for the Palestinians.”

      • annie
        annie
        December 3, 2018, 5:30 pm

        and here’s an example of a very popular progressive youth oriented evangelical christian magazine https://sojo.net/magazine (note as you scroll the current front page articles there’s a speaker wearing a Palestinian keffiyeh)

        and here’s a recent article about the jerusalem embassy move, among other things https://sojo.net/articles/how-some-american-evangelicals-are-challenging-views-about-palestine

        The day after CMEP’s prayer vigil, former Fuller Theological Seminary president Richard Mouw published an article condemning the “shameful” celebration of the embassy’s opening. “God is not indiscriminate in handing out blessings to Israel,” Mouw wrote. While Jeffress and Hagee rejoiced in what they believe to be the eternal theological significance of the new embassy, Mouw was clear and critical: The biblical prophets “never called for an uncritical acceptance of whatever happened to be the current policies and practices of Israel’s leaders.”

        A movement is building among justice-minded evangelicals. To them, the suffering of Palestinian civilians, including many siblings in Christ and those from diverse theological and faith traditions, demands accountability regarding the Israeli occupation and government. And this movement has gathered traction in recent years among young evangelical Christians who say figures like Hagee and Jeffress do not speak for them.

        As a recent LifeWay Research survey discovered, uncritical support for Israel is marked by a sharp generational divide. Although more than three quarters of evangelicals 65 or older say they have an overall positive perception of Israel, that figure drops to 58 percent among evangelicals age 18 to 34. Nineteen percent of younger evangelicals are likely to see the events surrounding the founding of the modern state of Israel in 1948 as an “injustice” –

        this magazine is mainstream in the christian community. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sojourners

        Sojourners has consistently won awards from both the Associated Church Press and the Evangelical Press Association. In 2008 and 2009, “Sojourners” won the first place “best in class” award from both religious press associations.

        …..

        Along with the magazine,[5] Sojourners also produces a website.[6] The organization publishes resources[7] on a number of social justice and faith issues; it sponsors a year of voluntary service;[8] and it engages the wider Christian community through mobilizing, media outreach, speaking, teaching, preaching, and public events. Over the years, Sojourners has provided leadership and support to various other activities including the Nuclear Weapons Freeze Campaign, the Free South Africa movement, and opposition to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, among other concerns.

        In 2010, Wallis was interviewed in episode six of God in America, a documentary featured on PBS from Frontline and American Experience.[9]

        The musician Moby recorded a three-part interview on Sojourners’ “God’s Politics” blog about his journey into faith and politics.[10]

        Sojourners CEO Wallis served as a member of President Barack Obama’s Advisory Council on Faith-Based and Community Partnerships, which advises the president and White House staff on a range of concerns.[11] Sojourners has organized high-level meetings with the White House and political leaders on both sides of the aisle.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 12, 2018, 12:02 pm

      “When it comes to…/…the “liberal” Jews with deep pockets?” “Keith” 12:21 am

      Dear me, look at the time! It’s after midnite.

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 12, 2018, 2:13 pm

        MOOSER- “Dear me, look at the time! It’s after midnite.”

        Midnight in New York, 9:21 pm in Seattle, 21 minutes past my normal bedtime. What time is it now in Seattle? Why, time to visit Keith’s NO EMPIRE Blog!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 12, 2018, 4:20 pm

        ” Why, time to visit Keith’s NO EMPIRE Blog!

        Get ye to your blog with celerity,
        This is the consequence of ill-advised asperity!

      • Keith
        Keith
        November 13, 2018, 6:20 pm

        MOOSER- “Get ye to your blog with celerity,
        This is the consequence of ill-advised asperity!”

        Celerity? Asperity? Perhaps there is something to be said for Marnie’s frequent use of the “F” word. At least I know what that means without looking it up. Are you trying to impress RoHa?

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        November 13, 2018, 8:17 pm

        Celery and asparagus

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 17, 2018, 12:05 pm

        “Celery and asparagus”

        Those are two things used to garnish a Bloody Mary. And I hope they remember to drink in Moderation.

  7. tamarque
    tamarque
    November 12, 2018, 8:36 am

    Regret to differ with you on the following point. White people constantly talk about Blacks without their presence or participation in creating the dialogue. This ensures the ongoing prejudice but lets the participants feel self-righteous.

    And really the only question about all these events is, Do you think you can have a discussion of the Jewish/American-Israeli future without hearing from Palestinians? I don’t. It would be like having a discussion of the future of the American South in 1964 with a bunch of white people. It’s privileged and incomplete.

  8. CigarGod
    CigarGod
    November 12, 2018, 11:00 am

    Six Jews and a Palestinian are sitting at a Poker table.
    All six Jews watch as the Palestinian shuffles his tiny stack of chips. Then he cuts them and shuffles them again.
    He looks at the last gasp of the ice cubes in his glass and wonders if the waitress has gone home. Arms crossed, two large security guys bracing the door shift their weight.

  9. Misterioso
    Misterioso
    November 12, 2018, 11:04 am

    Meanwhile:

    https://www.palestinecampaign.org/hundreds-gather-at-pscjusticeconf-to-condemn-israeli-apartheid/

    “Experts condemn Israeli apartheid at PSC conference” in London, Nov. 5/18

    EXCERPT:
    “Experts and Activists Gather in London to Condemn Israeli Apartheid, Commit to Fight for Freedom, Justice and Equality”

    “Expert speakers joined hundreds of activists in London to condemn Israel’s apartheid regime at the PSC’s ‘Justice in Palestine: Ending Apartheid, Achieving Freedom and Equality’ conference, on Saturday 3rd November.

    “Attendees began the day by hearing from Professor Virginia Tilley, who co-authored a UN Economic and Social Commission of Western Asia (UNESCWA) report which accused Israel of apartheid. She outlined how Israel commits the crime of apartheid in its treatment of all parts of the Palestinian population, before discussing the report’s implications. She argued that it is necessary to re-imagine Palestinian identity as multi-sectarian, embracing all within the territory of mandate Palestine.”

  10. amigo
    amigo
    November 12, 2018, 11:15 am

    During the “Troubles ” in Northern Ireland ,(mid 60,s to late 70,s) TV stations in the UK and both the Northern and Southern Ireland were forbidden to show the faces or transmit the voices of the Nationalist spokespersons. A stand in was used so none of the passion of a real spokesperson reached the audience. Couldn,t have the facts getting out.

    This illegal practice was brought to an end after several court battles and eventually Free Speech won the day.

    Zionists follow this foolish path and will eventually find themselves on the losing end of this strategy.You can fool some of the people all of the time , etc etc.The truth always comes out.

    Palestinians cannot or will not be wished into oblivion.Get used to their presence , they are here to stay.

  11. JimMichie
    JimMichie
    November 12, 2018, 12:58 pm

    Oh my goodness, Phil, this piece reminds me so much of when I was a broadcast journalist in the 1960s covering the Civil Rights Movement for NBC. And, yes, we all know that there were many, many folks of the Jewish faith in the vanguard of that movement. But Palestine is “different”? Sorry, but I don’t accept that the American Jewish community is “terrified” of the Palestinians: far too trite an answer. Granted the Palestine/Israel longstanding bloody feud is complicated–but much, if not most, to the contrivance of the Zionists who decided decades ago that they would delete Palestine and its people no matter what means to that end. Much of the world has come to know that Zionist Israel has all but accomplished that end through brutality, racism, genocide, ethnic cleansing and land theft. The record of these longstanding and continuing egregious human rights crimes speaks loudly for itself.

    So how and why is the American Jewish community so “terrified” of the Palestinians? Further elaboration on this question I think would require you to delve deeply into Zionist Israel’s racism, or apartheid, if you will. Permit this native of South Louisiana who grew up in a racist culture to suggest that the answer is in the culture of Zionism and the Zionist regime “governing” Israel and still working to delete Palestine!

  12. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    November 12, 2018, 3:17 pm

    Jews and Israel is classic Bourdieu

    https://www.powercube.net/other-forms-of-power/bourdieu-and-habitus/

    Habitus is ‘the way society becomes deposited in persons in the form of lasting dispositions, or trained capacities and structured propensities to think, feel and act in determinant ways, which then guide them’ (Wacquant 2005: 316, cited in Navarro 2006: 16).
    « Habitus ‘is not fixed or permanent, and can be changed under unexpected situations or over a long historical period’ (Navarro 2006: 16): »

     His concept of doxa « is the combination of both orthodox and heterodox norms and beliefs – the unstated, taken-for-granted assumptions or ‘common sense’ behind the distinctions we make »

    Jewish habitus is that Israel is like us, it will always be there, Israel is good faith

    Jewish doxa is that we can sweep the Palestinians under the carpet, there will be 2 states, Gaza is evil.

    When Palestinians speak they undermine both the habitus and the doxa so they have to be sidelined.
    The problem is that Israel is a failure now and the habitus and doxa look more and more absurd.

  13. Maghlawatan
    Maghlawatan
    November 12, 2018, 9:56 pm

    David Frum is a Zionist but he ‘s very well regarded as an analyst. Last week he took on Steve Bannon in a debate in Canada. He said the following about people like Bannon:

    “They don’t know what they want to do. They only know who they hate. And hate doesn’t build.”

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?453964-1/steve-bannon-david-frum-debate-rise-populism

    Reminded me of Zionism. Because it is built on hatred.

    • Nevada Ned
      Nevada Ned
      November 13, 2018, 12:59 am

      Instead of saying that the American Jewish Establishment is “terrified by Palestinians,” it might be more accurate to say they are terrified by the possibility that the wretched Palestinians might gain support at the expense of Israel. And of course they’re rational to be terrified, because the Palestinians are gaining support, at Israel’s expense. Even though many Palestinian leaders are jailed by Israel.
      Actually, the Palestinian cause is already supported worldwide, not just in the Arab world, judging by votes in the UN.

      You mentioned David Frum, who used to be a somewhat important neoconservative. His claim to fame was inventing the phrase “axis of evil”, meaning three countries (Iran, Iraq and North Korea)
      N Korea had nothing to do with either of the other two, and Iran and Iraq had recent waged a very bloody war. Yet Frum’s phrase was incorporated in G W Bush’s speeches.

      I see From has recently become disillusioned with Republicans and conservatives, and idiots.
      But I repeat myself.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        November 13, 2018, 11:56 am

        Frum and Bill Kristol have lost their GOP religion. I don’t think they understand the big picture and the role of previous GOP policy in leading us to where we are now.

      • annie
        annie
        November 13, 2018, 12:58 pm

        maybe they go where they are needed most — somebody’s got to reel in the herd as the situation becomes more drastic if/when israel is no longer bipartisan. think of them as little lobby soldiers, maybe they’re on assignment. not sure gop was ever their religion.

      • Maghlawatan
        Maghlawatan
        November 13, 2018, 3:09 pm

        The GOP and Israel have both gone past the point of no return. Things fall apart.

    • Marnie
      Marnie
      November 13, 2018, 8:22 am

      David Frum calling out Steve Bannon is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, right?

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 13, 2018, 5:42 pm

        Maybe, but that doesn’t make the kettle any paler.

  14. kev
    kev
    November 13, 2018, 1:12 am

    I disagree. I don’t think that it is built as much on hatred as it is on a strange combination of victim-hood and narcissism, of the feeling of a need for their own place by people that self-select as a tribe that has convinced itself that it is uniquely a victim historically, more so than any other people, while also convinced that they all somehow belong in this one geographical location that they were taught was uniquely given to them because they were “chosen” by their unique deity. A location that, according to their own historical or religious traditions, their tribe previously committed a genocide in order to take over from the prior inhabitants, so maybe Zionists think that makes it okay for them to do it again to the Palestinians. I certainly see a lot of tribalism and bigotry in such a world view, I think that it is pathological, but not so much hatred as it is small-mindedness, extreme narcissism/tribalism and bigotry, along with very healthy doses of zealotry. A Zionist “Manifest Destiny”.

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      November 13, 2018, 12:19 pm

      I really think it is hatred. The way Gazans are dehumanised by the school system/IDF is sociopathic. Israeli Jewish society is very sick.

  15. Boomer
    Boomer
    November 13, 2018, 10:02 am

    re: “The American Jewish Establishment is terrified of Palestinians.”

    Well sure. Why wouldn’t American Jews be terrified of Palestinians? For a century, Palestinians have been invading the American Jewish Homeland, evicting Jews from their homes, killing thousands, imprisoning thousands more, making millions of them refugees without rights, or even the right to have rights. They have reason to be terrified.

  16. Mayhem
    Mayhem
    November 13, 2018, 6:36 pm

    @Phil, what about the converse?
    Inside American pro-Palestinian spaces when can one hear Zionists speaking on their own terms? Of course, never.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 13, 2018, 7:20 pm

      “Inside American pro-Palestinian spaces when can one hear Zionists speaking on their own terms? Of course, never.”

      Here you are “Mayhem”! Anybody preventing you from speaking on your own terms?

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 13, 2018, 7:49 pm

      || Mayhem: @Phil, what about the converse?
      Inside American pro-Palestinian spaces when can one hear Zionists speaking on their own terms? Of course, never. ||

      I agree that it’s silly for Phil to expect discussions about justice, equality and human rights in a space dedicated to Jewish supremacism.

      But it’s no more silly (in fact, it’s probably quite a bit less silly) than your expectation to hear discussions about supremacism in a space dedicated to justice, accountability and equality. (You might as well expect a women’s shelter to allow a serial wife-beater to “speak on his own terms”.)

    • Maghlawatan
      Maghlawatan
      November 13, 2018, 11:58 pm

      The side of Justice is a broader church, Mayhem, but whiny people are likely to be laughed at.

      • annie
        annie
        November 14, 2018, 2:58 am

        LOL.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 14, 2018, 12:27 pm

        Hey, you guys, leave “Mayhem” some room to speak on “his own terms”. Don’t want to crowd him out.

  17. Jasonius Maximus
    Jasonius Maximus
    November 14, 2018, 11:55 am

    This article reminds me sharply of a conversation is was just having with a close friend, former Apartheid activist, and fellow South African. He lived in exile the US during the 80s and was reminiscing about the meetings, the forums, the talks, the protests, and sheer diversity and hope of the people involved in the US.

    Black, White, Indian, Coloured, Jewish, Zulu, Xhosa, Afrikaaner and everything inbetween. They all spoke and dreamed of a greater, more inclusive, free, and just future for South Africa. It was a wonderful and inspiring melting pot of ideas and constructive criticism, where everyone was welcome to talk and even argue without fear or favor, because everyone knew that one way or the other, any future they hoped for back home included them having to live together in peace and prosperity.

    We see almost none of this in the most influential Jewish circles in the US when it comes to future of Israel/Palestine. As Philip correctly points out, there are no voices welcome other than Jewish voices. Almost as if the entire Arab population of Israel proper doesn’t even exist, let alone the millions and millions of Palestinians living between the river and the sea, that many of them deem Israel too.

    The community doesn’t even invite voices from friendly neighboring nations to discuss Israel’s role and future in the greater region as a whole. No one from Jordan, no one from Egypt, no one from Lebanon, no one from Syria, no one from Turkey, no one who is Muslim, no one who is Christian, no one who is secular, let alone atheist.

    Instead they wring their hands and act and talk like no matter what future awaits Israel, those other people, other faiths and other neighbors, won’t still be there when the dust settles or when the messiah comes. Like one day, Israel will suddenly be 100% Jewish and miraculously land in the middle of Europe nestled nicely between France, Italy and Germany.

    It’s both troubling and sad that, with all the resources, money, influence, and intellectual capacity available this exclusive bubble and echo chamber is the best they can come up with for themselves.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      November 18, 2018, 12:53 pm

      “It’s both troubling and sad that, with all the resources, money, influence, and intellectual capacity available this exclusive bubble and echo chamber is the best they can come up with for themselves.”

      As goes the Right, so goes the allrightnik.

  18. Marnie
    Marnie
    November 15, 2018, 2:52 am

    I think the american jewish establishment is more afraid of israeli jews than palestinians because they know exactly who and what they are and aspire to be. I wish I could find the story, meant to be humor, that american jews will do anything to keep israeli jews in israel and not washing up on the Jersey shore or any other shore of north america, because according to the joke, it’s cheaper to send hundreds of dollars each month to keep israelis in israel.

  19. DaveLipp
    DaveLipp
    November 15, 2018, 8:46 am

    My multi-media presentation “Star of Goliath” was censored some years back by the Puffin Cultural Forum, they of the Puffin Foundation, sponsors of all things progressive except when it affects them personally, as Phil Ochs said. I ran into the perps the other night at a progressive event at the Museum of the City of New York, where they sponsor the “Activist New York” historical exhibit, and their only response to my offer to discuss their crime politely was that things have changed: they now invite J Street to trumpet the Israeli-shill two-state (hydrochloric) solution at their Cultural Cover-Up forum in Teaneck – a town that’s home to an orthodox Jewish community kept in ignorance of ethnic cleansing by the Puffin “Cultural” Forum. I have sent along this article to them in hopes they will begin the process of becoming actual progressives.

  20. Kathleen
    Kathleen
    November 15, 2018, 2:14 pm

    PW ” But the segregated character of this discussion is unsustainable”

    Not if your goal is to sustain and fuel the myth that Israel is always in the right.

    This morning on MSNBC’s Morning Joe, Scarborough said that the effort by Facebook to define any criticism of the FB as “anti-Semitic” and to convince the ADL to weigh in as “sleazy”. Everyone else on Morning Joe ran from Scarborough’s comment. Fascinating

    Forgot to mention that over a week ago when a group of MSNBC pundits were discussing Trump sending U.S. troops down to the U.S. Mexican border because individuals in the “Caravan” were throwing rocks Andrea Mitchell responded with “what is this the Gaza?” Clearly drawing a parallel between Israel’s disproportionate response to Palestinians throwing rocks.

    Andrea threw a twist into the conversation in an unexpected way.

  21. niass2
    niass2
    November 19, 2018, 11:57 am

    US Senators are afraid of Jews like me who think cory booker tellng me how to think is like a good way to get support like, yet Frank Zappa and I say hell no,and that confinement loaf is a thing, a thing that Netanyapoo will taste someday. In the meantime my high school age son will have to tell me what confinement loaf tastes like as they now use it in his school as a punishment when they skip class. I wanted to date Palestinians when I was younger,but now I am married and she’s gone….bummer, not sure where she is actually. I f I look I’l just get into more trouble. Labelling people as jews or palestinians or cory booker voters sucks it messed up my life a lot. Humans truly suck and mean people are everywhere. AND, thanks to the measles epidemic my job interview is cancelled. Vaccinate your kids today if your not a Trump voter.

  22. Vera Gottlieb
    Vera Gottlieb
    November 19, 2018, 3:17 pm

    Obviously, none of these people lived through Nazi Germany and hence haven’t got the foggiest idea what it was to be persecuted/killed for belonging to a certain religion.

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