Today Ha'aretz has begun reporting on a meeting of Israeli soldiers who fought in Gaza and are now telling their stories. Amos Harel notes that the stories "[paint] a grim picture of civilian deaths, deliberate destruction of Palestinian property and lenient orders to open fire . . . Their on-the-ground testimonies are different from
the army's official statements, in which the IDF insisted its forces
paid heed to high moral standards in every sector." "There was one house with a family in it… we put them into some room. Afterward, we left the house and another company went in, and a few days after we went in there was an order to release the family. We took our positions upstairs." "There was a sniper position on the roof and the company commander released the family and told them to take a right," said the soldier. "One mother and her two children didn't understand, and they took a left. Someone forgot to notify the sniper on the roof that the family had been released, and that it was okay, it was fine, to hold fire, and he… you can say he acted as necessary, as he was ordered to."
Ha'aretz will be publishing the testimonies as a series. Harel shares one story in this opening article:
Ha'aretz has updated this story:
According to the squad leader: "The sharpshooter saw a woman and children approaching him, closer than the lines he was told no one should pass. He shot them straight away. In any case, what happened is that in the end he killed them.
"I don't think he felt too bad about it, because after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given. And the atmosphere in general, from what I understood from most of my men who I talked to … I don't know how to describe it …. The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way," he said.
Related posts:
- Israeli soldier testimony from Gaza: ‘we should kill everyone there [in the center of Gaza]. Everyone there is a terrorist.’
- Avnery uses a beautiful adage, the ‘feel of truth,’ to valorize the soldiers’ testimonies from Gaza
- Day 2 of the Gaza assault begins
- NYT reports: Israeli soldier returned Coca-Cola to store in Gaza after his mates told him it was wrong
- As the truth about the Gaza war continues to be revealed, Israel’s standing in the world will continue to plummet
{ 29 comments }
Don't listen to those soldiers! Anti-semites and false Jews, every damn one of 'em!
And, well, Ha'reetz well, what more do I have to say? Isn't it edited by Julius Striecher?
I can imagine what their experiences were like. My friend's son was with Marines 1/5 for the fall of Baghdad.
When he returned, I asked him what it was like over there. The first words out of his mouth to me were, "We killed people for no reason."
His father told me about the rules of engagement for checkpoints and that anyone approaching too fast, or too suspiciously, or somehow made the troops manning the checkpoint nervous, were fired upon.
He had to render aid to a car full of wounded and dead women and children after just such an 'engagement'.
Oh sorry, I forgot, "Arabs Suck" Every thing the Israeli Soldiers did was necessary to defeat their human-sheilding Nazi-spiritual-forefather foe, and "You Suck" Look at all the bad things the US did in Iraq and vietnam and… Damn it, "The Whole World Sucks"! Bad things happen in every war. It's the Palestinian's own fault.
And BTW "Israel Rocks"! Just thought i'd throw that in on GP.
Now, haven't I saved all the Zio-trolls lots of time and effort?
Wrenching stories.
Unnecessary behavior.
War is Hell. You train kids how to shoot and send them out into populated areas, and s*** happens. It's those who launch unnecessary wars of choice as "preemptive" measures or to send a message not to f*** with us, who must be held accountable for what follows. Dick Cheney famously calculated that if there was one percent chance that Saddam had WMD he would use against us, it made sense to take him out. What about the 95% chance that WMD-like casualties would result, and the blowback would threaten America for a generation? Let alone make more probable that regimes would feel the need to arm up defensively. Preemptive wars are war crimes, pure and simple.
"Someone forgot to notify the sniper on the roof that the family had been released"? Forgot?! As in–"It just slipped our minds"?!
What a terrible indifference to other people's lives–and what callousness embodied by that institutional lack of military training in basic communication. Such a lack of basic professionalism shows the coldblooded official IDF attitude toward the people of Gaza and why each new report reveals more bloodthirsty cruelty.
We need to call on Pres. Obama to "Recognize the State of Palestine now."
"Unnecessary behavior."
Richard Witty
"Unnecessary" Richard? You can't mean that? This is Hamas, the genocidal-death-cult-Nazi-spiritual-father-rocket-launching-human-shielding Hamas we are talking about.
But you seem to be in your "Why can't we all just get along?" bag lately. The ol' Zionist Shoot-and-kvetch, huh.
Snap out of it Richard! Pull yourself together! Remember, if Israel doesn't prevail, it's the box-cars for all of us. I usually get a roomette, Richard. I would have no place for my suits or my accordion in a boxcar.
Now I want to be very careful, Richard. Would I be a false Jew or anti-semite if I say I find your little expressions of mild regret completely phony, and very maddening, Richard? This is your Zionism Richard, embrace it, Richard. Try to live up to it, Richard. Please, the Israel project is one that will be a triumph for Jews every where, but we might have to hold our noses (with both hands! Little nose joke there) and grit our perfect teeth for a while til its seen through, Richard. For God's sake Richard DON'T WEAKEN NOW!!!
Richard, Zionism is not for those who selfishly indulge their own effete humanitarian or moral feelings. We can't afford that kind of self-indulgence Richard. Zionism is a team sport, and your job on the team, well, I don't need to tell you Richard: I! 2! 3! 4! C'mon now Richard, you can do it, just think of posterity, your talented and intelligent Jewish Children! "Israel Rocks!" "Arabs Suck!" C'mon Richard, I know you can do it!
@Mooser
Yeah, you just managed to convince me that you aren't even Jewish by birth, just some slimy anti-Semite who is pretending to be Jewish.
Not all of the Jews who died in the Holocaust would have been saved if there had been an Israel, but it is a historical fact that thousands of Jews died after being sent back into the hands of the Nazis because there was no Israel and no other nation would take them in. And don't say that things have changed. Millions murdered in Darfur, hundreds of thousands in Rwanda… genocides are happening right now.
Thom: "genocides are happening right now."
oh, and Gaza.
@Samuel
Be careful, you might be called an anti-semite too.
Someone must have started an anti-hasbara response team and put their top agent on the Mondoweiss site. Wherever he came from, Mooser is funny and effective–a screenwriter with time on his hands, a stand-up comedian who would rather sit down and type? Praise the lord and pass the Mogen David.
Thom: "Yeah, you just managed to convince me that you aren't even Jewish by birth, just some slimy anti-Semite who is pretending to be Jewish."
I am pretty convinced by Mooser's style that he's Jewish. But for the sake of argument, suppose he's not. So what? You seem to be saying that when it comes to the Middle East the only opinions that count are Jewish ones. That's the problem with you Zionistas–even when you're not intending them to, your Zionist supremacist values leak out at the edges.
the myth in the middle east….the people of the book….israel the land without a people for the chosen people without a land…
what a frigin joke zionism has played on the american jews and on the jews of the whole entire world.
Bravo, Mooser.
I second Duscany's opinion. You are right on target, smart and riotously funny. Keep it up!
The comments in Ha'reetz to the soldiers' revelations are even more revealing. With one or two exceptions the letter writers defend the IDF with comments like: "What did you expect? This is war. Shit happens. Anyone can make a mistake? How do we know the woman and her kids weren't terrorists? The soldiers were only doing their jobs. No other country in the world would do what Israel is doing to expose the few excesses that unfortunately occurred in Gaza."
i like moosers commentary as well.. however, i appreciate richard wittys acknowledgment… there is always hope that people like witty can become more open minded to the unnecessary suffering their automatic support for zionism or israel is causing.. rather then toss off the words of the soldier, witty did acknowledge them in a way that suggests he could change his view on these issues… one has to hope that people who take strong stands on either side of this conflict can be more open to viewing the suffering and pain that both sides carry in all of this…
What I have to find a fault with is that it has to come from an Israeli's mouth for all of this to sink in, doesn't it? It has to be an "admission" of guilt. It isn't enough that we read and hear stories and testimonies from witnesses, victims and other independent investigations that all corroborate a story: it can only be true after the shame has finally made an Israeli speak out against the aggression.
Because we cannot take into account a Palestinian's "story": they lie to gain sympathy.
What Susie termed "the bloodthirsty cruelty" of members of the IDF today brings to mind the legacy of the founders of Zionism, ideologues who cherished land before lives, even Jewish lives. The past is father to the present. Here's the latest example of their value system from the website of orthodox Jews:
"We must begin an open war against Nazi Germany without giving any consideration to the fate of the Jews in Germany", Gruenbaum said. He proposed examining the possibility of "smashing the windows in all their embassies" and organizing mass demonstrations. "German Jewry will obviously pay for this," he noted, " but there is no alternative."
….Yitzhak Gruenbaum at the JAE, 13 Nov 1938, Central Zionist Archives, Jerusalem
I'm so glad the blogs comments are going off on an antisemitic bent. It reveals the true feeling of Phil's phools.
Mooser, of course, has become the class clown he dreamt of being.
I don't think sarcasm and personal attacks add to this blog.
anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic,
anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic,
anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic,
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anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic,
anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic,
anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic,
anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic,
anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic, anti-semetic
don't you get tired of listening to yourselves? I thought Jews had exceptional intelligence? Now, I heard this from a Zionist Jew. But listening to some of you on here is like listening to a broken record. Or Zombies.
Take a deep fresh breath of air and let some oxygen flow to your brains so that you can come up with more intelligent arguemtns than the anti-semetic one. It's no longer effectice. It's not working. It's only of comfort to those that utter it.
Saleema
Actually the anti-Semitism argument does work in the sense it irritates the rest of us. That's why berel uses it and he will continue to use it in every post every day. I agree it proves he has no rational arguments left. He doesn't care. He's not here to debate the issues. He's trying to annoy enough people that the good people give up, thereby weakening Phil's fabulously growing influence.
Thanks Duscany. I had no idea that Hasbarah tactics stooped this low. Do these guys get paid or they do it all out of loyalty? You would have to pay me a hefty amount of money to bleet like a sheep all the time.
Currently, I am reading The Politics of Anti-Semitism from counterpunch. I have had it for a year now but couldn't bring myself to pick it up and read it. I have a collection of books I am reading on the Israel/Pal issue but never got around to reading it. I shall read them now. Perhaps it will help me understand why do Zionists lack a logical thought process.
I meant i have a collection of books on the israel/pal issue but never read them, but I will now.
According to Senator Chuck Schumer, the IDF is The Most Moral Army on Earth™. Why, they even send a text message before bombing a person's house!
Richard Silverstein at Tikun Olam has added even more damning extra parts of the Haaretz report on this story that were published in Hebrew, but not in the English edition:
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2009/03/18/idf-soldiers-admit-shoot-to-kill-orders-against-gaza-civilians/comment-page-1/#comment-108050
Which adds to many people's contention that debate about Israel is severely circumscribed in the US, but not in Israel itself.
I was a young grunt myself.
A common combat soldier in an occupation zone is always put in the position of the IDF sniper on the roof. Talk to Vietnam vets, or Iraq war vets. Go to a VFW post and have a few beers.
Or, and this is especially to the point, read some memoirs of young Wermacht soldiers stationed in occupied towns in the East.
If I could wave a magic wand it would set every armchair warrior politician or pundit (especially the preemptive war freaks) down in the instant beating heart of the
scared stiff grunt with the instant decision he has to make whether or not to carry out instant oral orders, his brain trying to compute all the abstract or vague conflicting values to be resolved NOW by his own hands.
I would hope that murdering a child would eat any person out from the inside for the rest of their lives. I hope those soldiers never sleep again.
It only works if the child is human, Nards…….
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