Even our military newspaper is covering the news that Gen’l Petraeus wants Palestine under his Centcom command, because the Palestinian grievance is damaging the U.S. interest. S&S extends the story. Notice that the Times hasn’t twigged to this important story.
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I wonder if Petreaus’ report to Mullen is related to our Jordanian agent who cracked and blew himself and all those CIA guys up because he couldn’t countenance the I/P situation anymore after the Gaza atrocities?
Pat Lang, former DIA chief for the Persian Gulf, says that he is so offended by the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians that he decided he will never go to Israel again.
Not to be crass, and certainly not to endorse what that Jordanian man did, but he killed CIA agents and — surprise! — Blackwater employees still working together.
Smells like Predator drones to me. There are probably several dozen Afghani and Pakistani civilians who owe that Jordanian their lives for his action.
What I meant was that he had been a reliable agent working for the US government who cracked over the I/P situation.
And, in the case of Col. Pat Lang, who is a hard-nosed realist and a friend to many in the military, his statement about the moral repugnance of the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians would also be quite influential.
On that point, dalybean, you are correct.
You see, Jordanian intelligence is far more valuable to the US than Israeli intelligence. When it comes to Human Intelligence, Jordan has been able to deliver far more than Israel, especially in that region. Furthermore, Jordan’s apparatus has been heavily involved in helping the US in Iraq over the last 10 years, whereas Israel operates mostly in Europe, Southeast Asia and the US.
Yeah that can’t be stressed enough, really.
It can’t be stressed enough that the comment you highlighted is complete nonsense. There is an intelligence network setup within Lebanon,Syria, and Iran which is unprecedented. Mughniyah’s assassination, in the middle of the most heavily defended part of Damascus, isn’t successful w/ out superior humint, in the middle of the Syrian capital.
Did you guys forget about this guy: link to haaretz.com
That is pretty good human intelligence wouldn’t you say?
I am not saying that the GID isn’t a superior force in Middle Eastern Intelligence, but to say they deliver far more than Israel is laughable. Especially considering the cooperation between the CIA and Mossad regarding Iran.
I also wouldn’t underestimate the cooperation between the intelligence trio of the GID, Mossad, and CIA, they all have the same enemies, and it sure is hell isn’t the Israeli government.
I hear they have some fantastic recipes for Nigerian yellow cake, actually.
Go help Bruce out, would you? He’s in over his head on another thread.
wow Chaos, way to add substance to this thread, and your great ability to back up your comment above.
Now I remember why you aren’t worth conversing with on here. I did read your other thread w/ Bruce, its classic Chaos, a guy starts to own you on here and you ask him to leave, followed by threatening to report his ‘abuse’
You forgot the oblique cut on my sexual orientation, yonira. You’re slipping.
Yonira now boasts that the Mughniya murder was an Israeli job. A few weeks ago she/he (whatever) was claiming that there was no evidence to link Israel with the murder, now he’s certain. Strange.
Anyway, regarding cooperation between the CIA and Israel, I don’t know what you base your claims on, certainly not reality for its evident you know nothing about the matter.
First off, Israel views the US as a competitor in the region, not a friend or an ally. How do I know that? Pouring over the hundreds of newspaper reports over the last decade or so from sources in Arabic, English and French has shown that in many cases Israel is completely lost outside the occupied territories. Even in Gaza, which is right under their noses, they have yet to find the so-called Hamas underground bunkers where Shalit is supposedly being held. Talk about clueless.
As far as HUMINT, we’re not talking about informants, we’re talking about actual foot soldiers. Besides, Israelis do not dare operate in Arab countries and when they do they have to send in a whole entourage as evidenced by the Dubai murder.
And finally, in 1982, when an explosives laden truck crashed into the Navy barracks in Beirut, Israel knew about it well in advance and preferred not to tip the US. The attitude was, “If the Americans want to know, they have to do the work themselves”. Go read Victor Ostrovsky’s account of the incident.
Israelis are big murder fans.
Israeli intelligence can’t be trusted simply because Israel lies whenever it’s in their interest.
By the way, it’s not surprising at all that the Hamas founder’s son was a Shin Bet informant.
A) Israel propped up and supported Hamas for years in an effort to destabilize the PLO and by extension Fatah. What better way to control the narrative and keep tabs on their investment than to have the son of the founder work for them.
B) The Palestinians, much like southern Lebanon were/are under Israeli occupation. The occupation provides the necessary intelligence infrastructure needed to carry out attacks, collect information and blackmail the sick and weary people into turning on their own as is the case to this day with Gazans seeking medical treatment outside the Strip.
Israel, doesn’t have that kind of “infrastructure” and leverage outside territories under its occupation. That’s precisely why Europe and the US are fertile ground for its dirty work, it’s “safe”.
link to guardian.co.uk
Great arguments Avi,
There is also the farcical performance or the intelligence agencies in 2006 war .Hezbollah were able to broadcast their television program uninterrupted throughout the conflict even while Israel the dsperately trying to shut it down. Some reports suggested that Israelis were tuning into this channel to get their news as they didn’t believe the gpvernment propaganda.
how do you know all this, yonira?
oy.
that link is a slam dunk, yonira.
not a possibility in the world that israel planted the story to make life difficult for hamas.
nah
couldn’t happen.
Ahhh more conspiracies huh PG?
You are contradicting yourself Avi, first you claim that Mossad has zero operational capabilities outside of the territories, the US and Europe, now you are trying to argue that they new about the barracks far in advance? Which one is it?
How about he HUMINT which was placed inside Syria’s nuclear weapons site in 2007? Or were the bombs Israel used laced with nuclear material to ‘frame’ Syria?
It’s silly arguing with you guys on this site, when in doubt use the Israel hater’s handbook tip #1 it was a vast Israeli/Jewish conspiracy (see psychopath below) or #2 claim the person you are debating w/ knows nothing and use zero evidence to back up your own claims(see avi above)
You guys are getting more and more boring by the minute.
“How about he HUMINT which was placed inside Syria’s nuclear weapons site in 2007? Or were the bombs Israel used laced with nuclear material to ‘frame’ Syria?”
There was no nuclear material.
” You guys are getting more and more boring by the minute.”
So boring that you cannot pull yourself away from here. What a poseur!
There you go again, Avi. Dragging facts into it.
yonira why don’t try to become more sophisticated here? you are very aggressive, why do you have to act like your fellow ziocaines in Palestine?
“network setup within Lebanon,Syria, and Iran which is unprecedented.” sounds like a sinister cabal (though Yonira fails to include Dubai), straight out of Edgar Wallace and E. Phillips Oppenheim, favorite authors for those of us who knew Roy McCarthy was a fakir.
Actually Israel helped to get Hamas started, imagining it to be a counterweight to the Arafat’s PLO. Sort of like the US making sure the Taliban was properly armed against the Russians in Afghanistan.
Actually Israel helped to get Hamas started, imagining it to be a counterweight to the Arafat’s PLO. Sort of like the US making sure the Taliban was properly armed against the Russians in Afghanistan.
You are contradicting yourself Avi, first you claim that Mossad has zero operational capabilities outside of the territories, the US and Europe, now you are trying to argue that they new about the barracks far in advance? Which one is it?
You’re not paying attention, as usual.
Surely, you must have heard of Israel’s invasion of southern Lebanon. No?
What part of “The occupation provides the necessary intelligence infrastructure needed to carry out attacks, collect information and blackmail the sick and weary…” in my post above did you not understand?
As an aside, have you ever heard of the Saad Haddad’s SLA, the South Lebanon Army? They were Israel’s lackeys in that region for more than a quarter century and they helped Israel setup an entire network of informants and collaborators in south Lebanon and parts of Beirut.
By the way, if you ever need a lesson on how earth’s gravity works or about the changing of the seasons, let me know. I’ll be more than happy to explain such widely known obvious things to you.
link to reuters.com
“http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE51I45R20090219″
You should take the time to read your own links before using them as proof of anything Yoni.
From your link:
“It was the first disclosure that graphite particles had turned up. A senior U.N. official said the discovery of additional uranium traces was a “significant”
find, while stressing an IAEA investigation of Syria remained inconclusive.”
Nuclear factors don’t just dissapear, even
if they are bombed and they leave a good deal more evidence of their existence than uranium dust.
You Israeli propagandists hear he word uranium and think nuke every time.
You are one to talk after your homophobic remark yesterday.
Can’t help yourself, can you?
Try taking your own advice.
From what I’ve read, Mossad’s intelligence in the Arab countries has become seriously degraded as they’ve lost their pool of native speakers, which explains many of the early successes.
To what extent has cooperation with Egyptian, Jordanian and other Arab intelligence agencies picked up the slack? There could be a great deal of bartering of information, especially if the ruling powers believe they have common enemies.
Define “successes.” Do you mean like the Lavon affair? Or the Lillehammer affair?
To what extent has cooperation with Egyptian, Jordanian and other Arab intelligence agencies picked up the slack? There could be a great deal of bartering of information, especially if the ruling powers believe they have common enemies.
Bullshit Bruce.
You mean because Egyptians and Jordanians give intelligences information to CIA who is infiltrated by Mossad?
It’s a question aparisian. So how is the question bullshit? Oh maybe that question is also bullshit.
Get a grip!
Are you claiming there is no direct cooperation between these intelligence agencies and Mossad? And that any passing of information goes through the CIA, due to infiltration by Mossad? Quite a story! Any sources you care to share with us.
And in all those frequent trips to Israel by Omar Suleiman, head of Egyptian Intelligence, he never meets his counterparts?
Bruce, hey stay civilised ok?
Are you claiming there is no direct cooperation between these intelligence agencies and Mossad? And that any passing of information goes through the CIA, due to infiltration by Mossad? Quite a story! Any sources you care to share with us.
And in all those frequent trips to Israel by Omar Suleiman, head of Egyptian Intelligence, he never meets his counterparts?
oh yeah baby show me your sources of information then, about Omar Suleiman sharing Egyptian intelligences with the Mafia in Israel (oops i meant Mossad).
This is not my area of expertise. That is why I asked the questions. Below are three sources. WordPress has eaten my comment twice now, so I will break these down to 3 separate comments.
Middle East Institute:
The nature of the intelligence field and the natural secrecy of Middle Eastern governments have combined to keep an air of mystery around the intelligence cooperation among governments in the region — especially when cooperation with Israel is involved — but it is clear that Egyptian Intelligence, and particularly Suleiman personally, has worked closely with Israel’s intelligence services — Mossad, the General Security Service or Shin Bet, and Military Intelligence — as well as with the US CIA, DIA and other agencies and, in recent years, with the multiple intelligence services of the Palestinian Authority (which followed the Middle Eastern model of multiple, competing, and often overlapping security agencies). By default, Suleiman has also become the main intermediary between Fatah and Hamas, though he is known to be personally opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood at home and, by extension, no friend of Hamas in Gaza.
Haaretz: Israel, Egypt to step up cooperation on Gaza arms smuggling
Israel and Egypt agreed yesterday to intensify intelligence and security cooperation aimed at combating smuggling from Sinai into the Gaza Strip.
At a meeting in this Red Sea resort yesterday, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak devoted considerable time to this issue, which has put stress on Israeli-Egyptian relations in the past several months.
Olmert reiterated the Israeli position that Egypt is not doing enough to stop the smuggling and the infiltration into Gaza of terror experts from Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Mubarak said Egypt is making great efforts on this issue and has located and destroyed 136 tunnels used for smuggling in the past year.
Both sides agreed to step up the activity of the joint security committee, hold weekly meetings and pass on relevant intelligence information immediately, using a hotline.
James A. Larocco, National Defense University
Then too, Egypt cannot be seen publicly as doing Israel’s bidding. This constraint limits dramatically what Egypt is prepared to do. It therefore is no surprise that Egyptian-Israeli intelligence cooperation is by far the most developed, the most frequent, the most institutionalized, the most personalized and without question the most productive of all bilateral ties. It is largely outside public scrutiny, and there is always plausible deniability by either side.
Successes from their point-of-view. I believe that was the frame of reference Avi was using.
I doubt the Lavon or Lillehammer affairs are considered successes, just like the Bay of Pigs is not known as a win for the CIA. However, it seems the Agency still boasts about overthrowing Mossadegh. What we wouldn’t give to have that government in place in Iran today.
Which Iranian government, Mossadegh or the one that was installed in his stead? You’ll forgive me for requiring you to clarify that. After your reaction to my statements on the Clinton impeachment yesterday, among other things, it would be foolish for me to assume that your methods of sentence construction actually does relate to mine in any meaningful fashion.
The overthrow of Mossadegh and the reinstallation of the Shah.
Well you never know with the CIA, but I would hope even we could agree that we would be very pleased to have a Mossadegh government – democratic, secular, anti-imperialistic, a nationalizer of the nation’s oil – in place in Iran today.
Yeah, it’s nice we have one thing we agree about, apparently.