The above video is a live feed of Turkish television from the flotilla. If anyone can translate the Turkish, please post any relevant news in the comments.
Follow #flotilla on twitter for the latest updates.
Update (12:45 am 5/31/10): Haaretz is reporting: "At least 10 activists killed as Israel Navy opens fire on Gaza aid flotilla." Al Jazeera's Sherine Tadros just tweeted that Israeli Army Radio is saying "between 10-14 people killed on flotilla." These reports are all unconfirmed.
We have a number of reports from the Mediterranean in the last few hours that the Israeli government is following through on its self-destructive and brutal determination to stop the freedom flotilla, and doing so at night. Live feed shows people still on deck. Isabel Kershner of the Times says Israeli boats have approached in international waters, intending to intercept. AP says that the Israeli navy is "stalk"-ing the flotilla. (Great for the rebranding campaign, huh?) Emails, rumors, follow:
From Iara Lee: israeli navy is already coming toward us/ we are still in intl waters and they are already here/ women are instructed to go downstairs/ men have gas masks and i am not sure what they are instructed to do....
From a friend of the flotilla: I was just told by Audrey, a spokesperson, that Israel told the captain that they're expanding Israel's territorial waters to 68 miles. The boats are at 70 right now with helicopters flying around. I think it's going to be very difficult to get timely and accurate news at this point. Hope I'm wrong.
From Felice: The White House is directing callers to contact the State Department main switchboard and ask for the duty officer responsible for dealing with imminent threats of abduction of American citizens. Please call the State Department as well. 202-647-4000. You can remind them that American citizens are being attacked with American military aid given to Israel and tell them they have ample influence with Israel to keep the flotilla safe.
From Lubna, on board, to Greta:
Urgent we have threat from israel (check out the HELP button on www.witnessgaza.com)
What is happening?
Lubna: two israeli ships coming toward us me.... they contact the ship asked who we are and disappeared, now they getting close to the ship we can see them stay here 3 boats are coming not two 3 israeli boats we are 78 mile from israel
people here put on their life jackets, every body preparing here
we didnt expect them now, we thought they will arrive at the morning.
They need to run west until morning. I hope they are being smart enough to maintain a tight formation. If not, the Israelis will pick them off one by one. Obviously the IDF is tracking them with airborne radar and satellites.
Hopefully next time they will purchase some satellite time of their own to keep tabs on the Israelis. Maybe they could hire observation planes to scout the convoy or bring a ship with a heli-pad and heli.
[From a friend of the flotilla: I was just told by Audrey, a spokesperson, that Israel told the captain that they're expanding Israel's territorial waters to 68 miles. The boats are at 70 right now with helicopters flying around. I think it's going to be very difficult to get timely and accurate news at this point. Hope I'm wrong.]
[From Felice: The White House is directing callers to contact the State Department main switchboard and ask for the duty officer responsible for dealing with imminent threats of abduction of American citizens. Please call the State Department as well. 202-647-4000. You can remind them that American citizens are being attacked with American military aid given to Israel and tell them they have ample influence with Israel to keep the flotilla safe.]
When you come into the into the territorial waters of Israel, there is no application for technicalities of “imminent threats of abduction of American citizens”, and “being attacked” (natural militant exaggeration)… the ‘right of innocent passage’ could hardly be applied (the ocean is too wide and there are navigational aids to use).
Encroaching is simply a breach of territorial integrity and laws, and liable to certain violations as provided by national and recognized international laws …
The US government may be simply facilitating safety and comfort of their citizens, but of course , on matters of legal offenses, its within the right of domain, or jurisdiction of the Israeli government.
So now the religious lunatic is spouting legal spittle.
Listen freak, you change your tune to suit your agenda. The blockade of Gaza is inhuman and cruel and those ships are bringing relief.
You say you believe in God? Then burn in hell, you fucking Satanist.
Can someone please inform the illiterate Evsngelical nut job that Israel has no jurisdiction in international waters, which is where this interception took place?
There are baselines on the sea allowed by international law… (if remember it right) there is even an archepelagic law that extended up to 200 miles from the baseline…
The Israelis has given forewarnings… this is in accordance to the Hague protocols…
According to some Haaretz news, the Israelis has been shadowing the flotilla at 70 miles, waiting until they cross through the territorial 68 miles from the baseline…
zamaaz, territorial waters are three miles out BY INTERNATIONAL LAW. Israel moved the goalpost illegally. Start reading before you post anymore. People are being killed.
So I take that as a yes Zzmaaz. You do support thf Holocaust because it was Germany excercisong it’s rights.
zamaaz – are all Zionists morons like you? I only ask because your comments here indicate that you are a moron, so I wonder if there is something about Zionism that renders its follower moronic.
The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea allows territorial waters of twelve nautical miles not 68 or 70 miles or whatever else the Israelis decide to claim it is.
BTW, the baseline is nothing more than the low water line unless the coastline is heavily indented in which a case a straight line can be drawn.
Do you even know the meaning of “archipelagic”? Well since you are too dumb to bother looking it up, I will tell you. It is defined in Merriam-Webster as ” of, relating to, or located in an archipelago”. Last time I looked there are no effing islands off the Mediterranean coast of Israel so “Archipelagic waters” are irrelevant.
Perhaps you are confusing the term “Archipelagic waters” with the term “Exclusive Economic Zone”. The trouble is that you have to be really dumb to think that the two are the same. The Exclusive Economic Zone gives that country the exclusive right to exploit natural resources but not to restrict navigation from the edge of territorial waters out to 200 nautical miles.
I only ask because your comments here indicate that you are a moron, so I wonder if there is something about Zionism that renders its follower moronic.
use your ears braciole:
this is not the mind of a moron, this is israel’s foreign ministry communicating to us, thru the online entity known as zamaaz
Give over, zamaaz is too stupid/useless for even the Israeli hasbara mob to want to use him.
Cite some sources to back-up your argument zamaaz. Then explain to human beings – not religious psychopaths – why they should stand aside while an entire people are suffering.
For the sake of Zionist bureaucracy? Fuck you, Nazi.
The implementation law is even equally tragic… even the Islamic countries practice executions under the due process of law…
the distinction between islamic fanaticism and zionist fanaticism is become less distinct by the moment… is what the jewish community wants the world to acknowledge???
Next time, they should hire a couple of gunboats and dare the pirates to open fire.
The only people who can (and should) deal with Israeli pirates are the government navies of every nation on this planet that respects international law.
And if the Israelis fired on the Turkish ship? That might even mean NATO.
The rogue, gangster state has no red lines, remember USS liberty?
I don’t understand the point of the article. Yes, the Israeli Navy will stop these boats. Whether it is 78 miles, 68 miles, or 25 miles from land, it has said it would stop the boats and escort them into an Israeli port.
It seems that some of the people on the boats are surprised this is happening. That is strange since Israel announced that was its plan. As far as calling the State Department, that is a waste of time since it knows what is happening. American citizens are not being attacked or abducted. They are being diverted in their attempt to go through an Israeli blockade.
I suggest what is happening and will happen is all scripted out. Little will be accomplished with hysteria. Israel is doing what it promised to do. We all knew it would do it.
[We all knew it would do it.]
and it is their legal right to do it…
Was it Germany’s legdl right to murder 6 million Jews too Zamaaz? I suspect your pastor John Hagee told you that Hitler was an agent if God, so you surely must have supported that genocidecorrect?
What all happen was all scripted out. Little was accomplished with hysteria. Germany was doing what it promised to do. We all knew it would do it.
matt connolly: Whether it is 78 miles, 68 miles, or 25 miles from land
It has no right to touch another boat in international waters, which is three miles of 4.8 km out. Ask any ship captain or yacht owner. No right. Maritime law is strict.
How do you know an American hasn’t been injured?
Did you not read the call from the head of UN Human Rights org begging world NGOs to go to Gaza ASAP and give them humanitarian relief? Did you miss that news? Because this is why this is happening. The UN put out an alert that things were dire. DId you not hear that?
I don’t get it. Which one website for latest text & news, which website for live video streams?
we didnt expect them now, we thought they will arrive at the morning. . “didnt expect them now”? Did not you know what you were going into? Did nobody tell you your boat could be bombed? Jee.
The Israelis have their own satellite recon capability, but I doubt they have enough satellites with appropriate orbits to provide continuous coverage. I would bet my left arm that the IDF is getting tracking data from the US. Anyone who knows anything reliable about Israeli recon capability, or any covert US support, should jump in and share.
Everyone should stay calm.
The mission of civil disobedience is meant to show the world what is occurring, not to fear and not to resist.
“Everyone should stay calm.”
After all, Witty’s son can’t possibly be hurt by this, or his wife’s family, so what’s to worry about?
Richard, so this is your light unto the nations? Zolst zein vi a lomp-am tug sollst di hangen, in der nacht sollst di brennen
witty we see who is showing fear and resistance – the zionists as per usual… that is why they kill and murder – they are becoming more inhuman by the day being driven by it…
“Everyone should stay calm.” Richard Witty
Well Witty, it’s midnite Sunday, and the death toll is 16-20. Can we get a little uncalm now?
“Everyone should stay calm.” Richard Witty
Yes witty the time the gangster state kills them all? fuck you and fuck rogue gangster zionist illegal state!
Everyone should stay calm.
why? so you can play camp councilor? is that your role here witty? keeping us under control. you, who cannot answer honestly why you are here amongst us.
link to haaretz.com
The Gaza aid flotilla changed course to avoid a confrontation with Israeli warships, Al Jazeera reported shortly after midnight Monday.
Yes Witty,
It’s clear the flotilla’s goals are violent ones. Meanwhile, Israel is intercepting them far outside of Israeli or Gazzm twrritotodl waters.
A blatant act if piracy. Particularly maximalist wouldn’t you agree Witty?
[A blatant act of piracy.]
Pirates are sea outlaws, they have no legal authority, jurisdiction, nor personality over certain area of the sea…
Israel is a vandal State, which continually steals land and violates the human rights of an entire people. You don’t seem to recite the virtue of the rule of law when it comes to that racist apartheid State.
Furthermore, you are citing these legal concepts superficially. If people knew that the ships are bringing food, toys, essentials for a starving population then suddenly no one gives a shit about this bureaucratic smokescreen.
Fuck you zamaaz. You’re not human rights advocate and you don’t believe in the rule of law.
You’re a Christian Zionist piece of garbage. So through that lens, you say w/e makes your case. Parasite.
[If people knew that the ships are bringing food, toys, essentials for a starving population then suddenly no one gives a shit about this bureaucratic smokescreen.]
The supplies can be delivered in many ways…
As I have ‘suggested’ before, in the world of laws among men and nations, it is not the question of supplies but the exercise under the regime of the law…
[Fuck you zamaaz. You’re not human rights advocate and you don’t believe in the rule of law.]
No law prescribes the violation of itself… and true rights is absolute; whether they are humans, men, or nations … the pursuit of ‘human rights’ in violation of law is not a right itself…
Zamaaz really, really needs to go. Look, we seem to be stuck with Witty, so why do we need zamaaz, too?
i’m sure the nazi’s had a similar outlook… look where your folks have fallen to…
i agree, i’m writing phil. it is one thing to put up w/this borg voice day in and out but during a crisis do we really need this infiltration from the overlords?
link to nytimes.com
Why even bother to click on a NYT link. It can no longer tell the truth. It’s great for its Style and Arts and Architecture sections. That’s all.
RE: “the Israeli government is following through on its self-destructive and brutal determination to stop the freedom flotilla” – Weiss
SEE: Israel stations nuclear missile subs off Iran – Times Online, 05/30/10
(excerpts) Three German-built Israeli submarines equipped with nuclear cruise missiles are to be deployed in the Gulf near the Iranian coastline…Some of the cruise missiles are equipped with the most advanced nuclear warheads in the Israeli arsenal…
ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to timesonline.co.uk
Yes I saw this article yesterday and am disgusted. Israel is going from manic to truly psychotic.
This should seetle once and for all who is threatening whom.
[Yes I saw this article yesterday and am disgusted. Israel is going from manic to truly psychotic.]
Better ‘psychotic’ than totally obliterated…
“Better ‘psychotic’ than totally”
What’s the matter Zamaaz? Are you afraid the Jews roll be attacked before your God incinerates them ?
zamaaz you advocate genocide against the indigenous Palestinian Arabs and eventually Jews who do not convert to Christianity.
You have no credibility. People like you belong in an insane asylum.
This is the company you keep, Dick Witty. You and the rest of the freaks are only winning because you have money, guns and PR. You keep the American public dumb and ignorant by inundating them w/ emotional blackmail and shameless propaganda (which they eat up w/ a spoon).
If people thought critically about the Jewish State, they’d reject it outright. The leftovers are the religiously insane like zamaaz or the tribal idiots like yonira and his sockpuppet rachel.
That’s the way Adolf Hitler thought in his last months in power.
Most sane people think he was, at the least, unbalanced.
[zamaaz you advocate genocide against the indigenous Palestinian Arabs and eventually Jews who do not convert to Christianity.]
Inasmuch as these are illegally brought goods, the government has the right to confiscate it… And as I proposed before, it is for the Israeli government to bring the goods themselves to intended people… this is the legal avenue to do things appropriately…
I do not have the power to convert Jews into Christians, only God has the grace to do that…I only press for what is right among individuals, people, nations, etc. in accordance to the law;
I too is concerned with Palestinians for they are the ones suffering the intransigience of others who could be personally benefiting from this huge international drama…
[Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings]
If these activist are truly for mercies, they shall give it to both the rights of Palestinians and Israelis. The Palestinians may need supplies, the Israelis need obedience to their laws…
[And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. (1Samuel 15:22)]
These are quoted from ancient Jewish scriptures… Now that you have touched spiritual matters, I included these for you.
What is legally punitive here is the ‘criminal sanctions’ against those who intentionally challenged the national integrity of state of Israel…
No! There is the time for such catastrophe as written in the Book of Revelations… as I said before, ‘what is important in the pudding is in the eating’… As you mocked these writings it is up to you, its your choice… but if these were true and realized, then your joy of sneering can never compensate the ‘heat of fire and brimstones promised for mockers and unbelievers’… As for me, I have nothing to lose in believing… in as much as what is important for now is the legal rights of the state of Israel…
I hope you realize you’re posting just like a Nazi would have the evening of the “raid” on the Gleiwitz transmitter.
[You and the rest of the freaks are only winning because you have money, guns and PR. ]
How about rationality based on institutionalized norms?
zamaaz, I am all in favor of your institutionalisation.
And of course, if there is anything Christians are in favor of, it’s rationally institutionalised norms, huh?
institutionalized norms for murdering people… what does that remind me of? geez zamaaz, you are making some very bad parallels here..
It does take hypocrisy to astonishing new heights.
[The flotilla was fully prepared for the different scenarios that might arise, and organizers were hopeful that Israeli authorities would do what's right and not stop the convoy, one of the organizers said.
"We fully intend to go to Gaza regardless of any intimidation or threats of violence against us," Arraf said. "They are going to have to forcefully stop us."
(Report: Gaza aid flotilla changes course to avoid confrontation with Israeli warships. Haaretz.com)]
This is pure intentional premeditated transgression. When ‘what is right’ is about to violate one’s national integrity… the world ‘came’ into the state of isomerism… a mirror image… Then arrest becomes a wrong act… This illusionary symptom of insanity cannot be used as ground for exoneration based on partial insanity… The nature of territorial violation remains in effect…
zamaaz, shut the fuck up
People want to follow this news, not step in your blithering
“People want to follow this news, not step in your blithering”
Do you call it blithering now? People around here down under still call it sh.t…
[The flotilla, which includes three cargo ships and three passenger ships, is trying to draw attention to Israel's three-year blockade of the Gaza Strip. The boats are carrying items that Israel bars from reaching Gaza, like cement and other building materials. (Report: Gaza aid flotilla changes course to avoid confrontation with Israeli warships. Haaretz.com)]
It is not the question of bringing in civilian materials… It s question of law, and national integrity being challenged here..
“It is not the question of bringing in civilian materials… It s question of law, and national integrity being challenged here..
False.
The blockade is illegal and Istael has no jurisdiction over Gazan territory or it’s waters. In other words, the side breaking the law is Israel.
If you weren’t such an illiterate cultist, you might have read about it.
Please read international maritime laws (on territorial and passage matters) and on the Hague conventions on conduct of War.
” Please read international maritime laws (on territorial and passage matters) and on the Hague conventions on conduct of War.”‘
Why Zamaaz, so they can explain it to you, you illiterate, fanatical pig?
I saw we all mail Phill to have Zamaaz banned from this forum. This kind of repugnant filth has no right to be here. As Netenyahu put it, he is human scum.
As a say again, ‘the proof of the pudding is in the eating’…we will see if the Israelis cannot capture the maritime violators… If they are captured, you lose… the violators suffer… if not, you win…. nobody suffers…as for me in both consequences, I have nothing to lose…
If Phil bans me, I recognize his right… as I respect anyone’s action to do within his right… As all do is express sincerely my conscience regarding these Israel issues.
Will Phil ban me because I oppose your contentions in whatever ground or circumstance I see irrationality? When I joined this debate, I am aware this as a War of Ideas In The Middle East. If there ware no protagonists, then it is no war anymore…
He can review all my contributions and determine if I am truly worthy to be banned….
[This kind of repugnant filth has no right to be here. ]
Is upholding the national integrity of state of Israel, and invoke what is supposedly legal, a repugnant filthy thing? When has the world of rational men become reversed?
[When has the world of rational men become reversed?] Or perhaps the world of militant activism is on the ‘isomeric parallel’ world…
I am really sad for the affected people…
“I am really sad for the affected people…”
Yes, I’m sure you feel eh same remorse that a pedophile feels when he hears the screams from the child he is sodomizing Zammaz.
If you had any self respect you would leave this forum now and never come back. You’re vile excuse for a human being. May you burn in hell.
Banning zamaaz is an absolute necessity.
Zamaz, i think people want to ban you because you are acting like a troll in the middle of a very critical news event related to the interests of this blog.
zamaaz – are all Zionists morons like you? I only ask because your comments here indicate that you are a moron, so I wonder if there is something about Zionism that renders its follower moronic. Perhaps you should at read up on international law before you come out with such dumb claims.
The United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea allows territorial waters of twelve nautical miles not 68 or 70 miles or whatever else the Israelis decide to claim it is.
BTW, the baseline is nothing more than the low water line unless the coastline is heavily indented in which a case a straight line can be drawn.
Do you even know the meaning of “archipelagic”? Well since you are too dumb to bother looking it up, I will tell you. It is defined in Merriam-Webster as ” of, relating to, or located in an archipelago”. Last time I looked there are no effing islands off the Mediterranean coast of Israel so “Archipelagic waters” are irrelevant.
Perhaps you are confusing the term “Archipelagic waters” with the term “Exclusive Economic Zone”. The trouble is that you have to be really dumb to think that the two are the same. The Exclusive Economic Zone gives that country the exclusive right to exploit natural resources but not to restrict navigation from the edge of territorial waters out to 200 nautical miles.
(Reposted above as the conversation has moved on)
“When has the world of rational men become reversed?”
So in one comment you are all for God, and in the next all for rationality and legality?
Well there’s one thing you are consistent about, zamaaz, and that’s your penchant for idiocy! In that field, you stand alone.
they run prisons the same way zamaaz…. these parallels are valid.. israel is an apartheid state increasingly at odds with the world community…
WOW the AP story has 25,000 comments!
Important:
“Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said that after a security check, permitted humanitarian aid confiscated from the boats will be transferred to Gaza through authorized channels. However, Israel would not transfer items it has banned from Gaza under its blockade rules. Palmor said that for example, cement would be allowed only if it is tied to a specific project.”
Just for something completely different Mark Regev is lying, claiming that “the humanitarian aid” will be transferred to Gaza if the ships come to Ashdod. Palmor says no. For students of 242, yes Regev specifically used the definitive: “the”.
link to media.theage.com.au
Good to read (AP) that Mairead Corrigan Maguire is on the flotilla gain. She’s been shot in the West Bank while participating in non-violent protest:
“Nobel Peace Prize Winner shot by Israeli army in Palestine”
link to youtube.com
.. and arrested on the last flotilla. Israel sure does know how to treats Nobel Peace Prize winners…
Will justice makes difference between Nobel Prize winner, and those not? The Christian world does not agree on that;
[But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (James 3:17)]
If they violated the law, they go to jail as well….
Jesus H. Christ violated the law and was crucified for it. I guess you agree with that too.
“Update: Initial reports – at least two people killed, 30 injured in Israeli attack on freedom flotilla”
I’m shocked. Speechless.
“Update: Initial reports – at least two people killed, 30 injured in Israeli attack on freedom flotilla”
I’m shocked. Speechless.”
If this is indeed true, then the game is up for Israel.
Here si a very good article from Gilad Atzmonl
“This flotilla is a clear signal to Israel that the game is over. Israel is now all but officially isolated. All that is left for Israel is to come to terms with its true nature: a shameless racist, murderous and terrorist state.”
link to informationclearinghouse.info
Stay tuned for Witty to chime on with his lament thatIsraelused excessive force, but had no choice due to the maximalist alms of the flotilla.
Well as far as we know, no IDF or Jewish Israeli nationals were injured in the making of this siege. So none of the relevant lives, to borrow a phrase from property law, have been disrupted.
[Israel is now all but officially isolated. ]
Or this incident further reinforces and reaffirms the integrity of Israel as an independent state…
“Or this incident further reinforces and reaffirms the integrity of Israel as an independent state…
Is this some kind of a joke? It is so hard for me to believe that zamaaz and Witty and the rest are anything but anti-Zionists who have carried a joke way, way too far.
israel is now a pariah nation in the eyes of many.. this response here will only reinforce it more strongly…
The Israeli media has said nothing about people being killed and injured. Have you got a link to that please?
From the live stream and Twitter freegazaorg:
Israeli soldiers shooting unarmed civilians. 8 minutes ago via web
Israeli soldiers shooting at people, all over the Turkish boat. Watch IHH streaming video 9 minutes ago via web
Report from IHH boat..two killed, 31 wounded. No verification but medical emergency can be seen from ship 11 minutes ago via web
Here is the link
twitter.com/freegazaorg
the MONSTER’s murder-machine didn’t wait long, did they?
anyone surprised?
maybe they’ll use white phosphorus on these dangerous humanitarians and cook them alive in their boats, or toss some leftover cluster bombs onto them
israel is a MONSTER – it should be muzzled, leashed and chained to a tree – US mandating their signing on to NPT is just a first baby-step
They’re in international water. This cannot be explained away.
Dead right, Sumud. Just listening to BBC. It remarked that Israel struck “100 km out”. Everyone in Europe, Australia, and Asia knows that three miles (4.8 km) is the international water limit.
Israel is now North Korea.
I truly did not believe this would happen like this. I thought Israel would pick the flotilla to pieces administratively and bereucratically, bit by bit. But they decided on good old straight-out murder.
Of course, I’ll feel a lot better when Witty tells us how this fits in with liberal Zionism.
It doesn’t seem a bit maximalist to you, Witty?
5:50 AM local time, Gaza 10:50 here
Have switched threads to latest to carry on, having slept for past 4 hours.
Live feed from Mavi Marmara has been replaced by studio footage from Turkish TVNet, supplemented by split screen ‘live’ shots from the boat itself. Confusing, since Turkish not one of my strongest languages.
Earlier, loud-hailer from ship called (in English) on Israeli Navy to help with injured passengers. Just now pink hijab interviewed IHH spokesman. Earlier footage showed at least one injured being helped off damaged upper deck.
Where the fuck is the Turkish Navy? This was an act of war.
6:18AM Total confusion from live feed; panicked shouting and loudhailer messages. English message that Israeli commandos have landed on front of ship, and another hovering above. Speedboats full of commandos following boat. First use of sound grenades.
This is a blatant act of war.
The Turks should declare war on Israel with NATO’s backing.
The UN must convene immediately and pass a Resolution condemning Israel.
There is no turning back from this outrage. The Arab world are going to revolt.
Just a reminder – Netanyahu is scheduled to be at the White House Tuesday for an official ass-kissing from Obama.
“Just a reminder – Netanyahu is scheduled to be at the White House Tuesday for an official ass-kissing from Obama.”
Will Obama cancel? Please let him cancel! I bet he won’t, though.
That’s not in the script.
So much for the attack on the USS Liberty being an accident. If they can mass murder unarmed civilians while the shle world is watching, how can anyone deny they weren’t capable if doing this in 1967?
And how ironic that a survivor from the Liberty should be one of the passengers?
The question is now, will those lunatics allow these ships to make it to shore or will they sink the lot of them?
who cares about US jews’ money for Democrats in the ’10 election – this state murder by israel absolutely exclaims the point Obama and his generals made about linkage – what israel does affects the whole world and this latest war crime cannot go unremarked nor unpunished
Obama must cancel and must issue a strong public rebuke immediately
To be honest, NATO is useless.
Despite the fact that Turkey is a full fledged member of NATO, in April of 2001, Israel signed a security agreement with NATO, making it a sponsored nation (among many other NATO sponsored states).
I’m pretty sure that agreement is null and void if Israel attacks a NATO member.
Turks don’t need to declare war. Israel committed an act of war against them.
Whatever else this is, it’s quite clearly an act of piracy, with an unprovoked attack on unarmed boats on the high seas.
If ever Turkey was an ally of Israel, it certainly ain’t no more. Shots of angry crowds in Ankara or Istanbul attacking Israeli locations. It takes some provocation to bring out a crowd of protestors, anywhere, before 7am local itme.
Live broadcasts suspended in favour of tvNET ads and pop songs/videos about Gaza: WARNING some of the images are a lot more graphic and gruesome than you may have seen before.
link to livestream.com
Australian journalist Paul McGeough on board MV Samoud . News blog:
link to ipadio.com
As bad as the Israelis get…act of war, murder whatever you want to call it. The US and the EU will be making excuses by morning and all the rest of the world can go to hell. Otherwise this wouldn’t have been necessary. God bless all those brave moral people who care enough to risk their lives and may God damn those who make excuses
Israel committed suicide tonight. Now the only question is how many other people she will take down with her.
The one and only live coverage is on Jazeera that is picking it off from the Turkish stations. Ships being attacked from sea and air and scenes of injured . Not a word or even a banner mention on what is happening on the Saudi-owned al-Arabia. CNN International has sports on. Jazeera reporting demonstrations started at the American Embassy in Turkey and Turkish Ministers in meeting now about what is going on. Nothing happening in Arab countries, as usual.
I’ve thought for a long while that would be how it goes – what a pity, sad for the whole world that the zionist extremists and mafias there are so vicious
Dammit, Phil, ban zamaaz and start a clean thread for this!
Yes for the sake of sanity Phill, get rid of this sociopath.
International media are pointing to this site for the latest updates, and all they find here are the rantings of a maniac.
Don’t respond to him. Just report the fvkker..
Zamass reported for trashing an important thread with biblical junk. Please massively report the piece of shit.
I have reported almost every one of his comments, with explanatory notes. I hope I am not alone in this.
this is the start of the Iran war which they need to expel the Palestinians.
Live Al-Jazeera English Coverage: link to livestation.com
Phil, I think it would be a good idea to feature the live Aljazeera English link that i posted.
BTW, Zamaz, please take your rantings somewhere else. We’re in the middle of something important here….
Can’t embed the Al-Jazeera report, but am watching it.
Greta Berlin from the Free Gaza Movement just said on AJ that their Israeli lawyer is saying that 10 people have been killed.
Service too busy..it says.
Hmm, well in that case , the best option seems to be to wait until Aljazeera English posts these clips on Youtube.
Man, somebody really has to petition to get Aljazeera English on American cable. This is getting ridiculous.
Okay the Aljazeera stream seems to be working again. I suggest ya’ll get on it before it crashes again.
NYC: EMERGENCY PROTEST 3PM TIMES SQ. MONDAY
Needs to be a protest Tuesday at the WH if that pirate Netanyahu shows up.
What a bunch of dumb idiots the Israelis have shown themselves to be yet again.
This is nothing but a show of force, to send a signal to Turkey, Iran, Hamas and everyone else in the region.
Israeli papers are already spinning this as a “clash” between the navy and the flotilla. What a load of garbage.
This had to be green lighted by Obama. Netanyahu’s visit to the US is no coincidence. Does anyone know how far back it was scheduled?
Words cannot describe my outrage at the moment.
Commandos repelling from helicopters?
Coupled with a nuclear sub off of Iran, it looks like Israel is more than willing to light up the entire Middle East. Un****real.
Oh God, this is awful. They are attacking unarmed (and unarmored) boats with military planes and ships?
This is Zionism . This is Witty, yonira, rachel, julian and every other scum who supports or even identify with the rogue state of Israhell. Oh, nothing new here, I know. We’ve been through this thousands of times before and every time we would be thinking, no way! not here, not now, not for this, but they never disappoint..Never! We’ve been talking about pathology and mental sickness in regards to the Zionist mind in recent days and here it is, folks. The mad dog policy at work!
May this rabid dog be put to sleep once for all and forever..For humanity’s sake, for sanity’s sake!
Expect Witty to blame this on the flotilla, criticising them for not excercisong sufficient discipline and mildly criticising Israel for being excessive, but having to defend Istael from this “escallation”.
No matter what happens now, Israel’s image us tarnished forever. I doubt the EU will ratify Israel’s entry into the OECD.
RT @FreeGazaOrg:
Our Israeli attorney in Haifa has said that ten people have been murdered
They chose the cover of night to create as much chaos and fear as possible. This is done with the intent of causing harm, the use of military equipment and attack, as if they were facing an armed enemy. It won’t wash, and it is just one more act which seals their isolation from humanity, and it is not just worthy of condemnation but prosecution.
Turkish TV says Israeli ambassador has been called for an urgent meeting at the Foreign Affairs Dept. No more news from there yet.
Al Jazeera Int’l just reported 10 people killed, not confirmed yet.
There is a sit-in in front of the Israeli Consulate in Istanbul. It has been going on since 1-2 am at night. There has been clashes with the police: people have been tear gassed.
Still no contact with the ships…
Emergency demonstrations have been called in London.
It seems that the activists tried to wrest the weapons away from the Israeli Soldiers from initial reports.
What initial reports? Israeli propaganda? Who the fuck are you?
I believe that is excuse #4 for killing with supposed impunity, want to float another story? #3 is that the “crowd of people rushed them,” #2 is that someone was armed, and #1 is the real reason “they were there and breathing.”
It’s a little late for irony, parody and satire now. This isn’t the time. (not that I haven’t been guilty of similiar transgressions)
I am not joking
Did you think I was using irony, parody and satire? I assure you I am not, these are excuses for killing with impunity. They can and do place weapons, plant them, to say they were attacked – that is another well used excuse.
The idea of rushing to take weapons means to plant the idea of violent militancy. There may have been a change of course to avoid the interception of the Israeli military, but there was no attempt to disarm boarded and armed military personnel – there was just plain cold blooded murder. I know this might be hard for the tender sensibilities of some, but if you have not been following the wanton murder of Palestinians or it was just something theoretical (perhaps not purposefully, you just cannot fathom the depravity) now you have some more evidence that they have no compunction of committing the same atrocities on equally unarmed civilians.
From Turkish State TV (TRT): Live ammunition and gas has been used on unarmed civilians. Latest official news is still 2 killed and 30 injured.
There is still a crowd growing in front of the Israeli Consulate in Istanbul. They are saying 300-350 people are there and growing. People got into the garden of the consulate and that’s when they have been attacked by the police with water and tear gas.
State TV is asking people to please stay calm and protest peacefully.
Thanks zamaaz for the State Dept info. I just called and pressed 1 for emergency (other extensions are closed right now). Got thru right away to a real person. Sounded like she’s handled quite a few calls like mine this evening. She gave me boilerplate assurances. Anyway, I hope they are logging the number of calls.
What else can we do right now?
The whole story is remarkable from an Israeli perspective. One of the founding myths of the State of Israel is the illegal boats overloaded with Holocaust survivors that tried to run the British blockade of Palestine in the late 1940s. The classic American-Zionist movie Exodus opens with such a story.
Desperate people willing to do anything, travel in subpar conditions, risk death and imprisonment at the hands of the occupying power, consciously doing this a media stunt for international consumption….sound familiar?
And we know who won that media battle.
The super rightwing Jerusalem Post is already offering an analysis that all Israel’s rebranding efforts will be washed away by the flotilla.
If anything brings home the point that the Palestinians are the new Jews – particularly from a Jewish perspective – it’s the flotilla story.
As a side note: the Turks have ultimately gotten their revenge for the humiliation that Danny Ayalon and other Israeli officials dished out to them.
If anything brings home the point that the Palestinians are the new Jews – particularly from a Jewish perspective – it’s the flotilla story.
They can’t help themselves, can they, the Israelis?
Well, so much for sleeping tonite. Maybe it’s better than waking up to this tomorrow.
Oh my God, the death toll jumped to ten?
Mooser, Nicole Johnston reporting from Gaza City for Aj said that Israeli radio reporting 16 dead.
And IDF forces are gassing people.
your livestream (from the 24 channel):
The attack was on international waters, 77 miles from the coast. They are talking about it being illegal in terms of international law.
There is a professor from Bilgi University talking right now (Ilter Turan.) Condemning Israel’s attack on a civilian humanitarian aid ship. Talking about Israel’s selling apartheid South Africa guns in 1974; as well as the int’l pressure on Israel right now. Israel had announced that it would want to control the aid going into Gaza. It is inappropriate and unlawful for Israel to attack on int’l waters.
There is another commentator saying this is madness, not to be expected even from Israel. He says it is a crime and madness – but it is not surprising considering what Israel has done to Gaza. They are saying Israel has crossed the line by attacking a humanitarian aid ship.
Jazeera reporter Abbas Nasser on board one of the ships was reporting just before the communication was lost that were 2 killed and 30 injured when “hundreds” of Israeli soldiers attacked the ship. Turkish demonstrations in Istanbul and Ankara growing.
And my sound system is kaput!
Israel radio (reshet bet) just reported that there are 3 wounded in Israeli hospitals all “moderately” wounded. And they are expecting more foreign wounded in Israeli hospitals.
Three wounded Israeli soldiers according to Galei Tzahal.
“Three wounded Israeli soldiers according to Galei Tzahal.”
They probably shot themselves (friendly fire) in their rush to harm unarmed civilians, or just the common accidental injury associated with an operation of this nature (flying glass, falling, equipment malfunction, etc.).
There is more and more talk that the number of killed is 10. The al-Arabia statioon started reporting on this with an Israeli-sourced report that those were killed when they attacked the Israeli soldiers with knives.
Turkish police called in to protect the Israeli ambassador. 6 Turkish sailors are reported killed in Iskadaroun possible from a missile explosion??? This is getting crazier by the minute.
Al – Arabiya is a US backed network. That’s the reason why Obama did his first interview to the Arab world with Al-Arabiya.
For the record, I don’t trust the Israeli army radio either.
another turkish TV, NTV, is reporting that Israeli TVs are reporting that 10 people are dead. NTV is talking to Levn’nin Levi (not sure about sp.) from Israel. This person is suggesting that Israel thinks the ships were armed and that this was an attempt at provocation (the flotillas) rather than aid. (WHAT?!) he is saying Israel responded as peacefully as possible. NTV reporter is insisting that the ships were peaceful and unarmed but Israel still attacked the ships and killed and injured people. He is asking how Israel could kill civilians. Israeli commentator insists this aid organization was connected to Hamas and was therefore not peaceful. He is insisting the flotilla was a provocation, and it has been asked to not break the siege but they insisted on sailing. NTV reporter asking where the ships are since we all lost contact. Israeli commentator is saying he has no info either and to call later in the day. NTV reporter asking about the number of the dead. Israeli commentator saying there is no confirmed information.
If Turkish mobs storm the embassy and the consulate and won’t go away until the Israelis let the flotilla go through, how can the Israelis respond?
Some of the people on these boats are going to end up in Israeli prisons for a long time, and held incommunicado.
Such a barbaric attack only goes to confirm that the attack on the USS Liberty was no mistake. The US government should be ashamed of itself.
from NTV again–
NTV reporter is saying they received info about ships being taken to the Haifa port. Israeli commentator (Levy’nin Evi is the spelling on the screen) insisting on not giving this info because he thinks (he is actually saying this) Hamas is listening to obtain this info.
The IDF also confirmed that two navy commandos had been wounded in fight, which apparently broke out after activists tried to sieze their weapons.
maximalustNarrative,
why does you I’d link to the Haaretz web site?
Turkey should expel the Israeli ambassador and cut diplomatic ties.
Avi, ditto. But, there’s always US pressure – which they can back by threatening to give the Iraqi Kurds free reign. Maybe even declare independence? Turkey does have options, but they are limited. I so wish though they’d find a way to expel the ambassador…
Of course, there’s that threat of Israeli tourists going somewhere else….
Perhaps I need to repeat myself again maximalistNarrative, you lying piece of shit. So here it goes –
I believe that is excuse #4 for killing with supposed impunity, want to float another story? #3 is that the “crowd of people rushed them,” #2 is that someone was armed, and #1 is the real reason “they were there and breathing.”
Did you think I was using irony, parody and satire? I assure you I am not, these are excuses for killing with impunity. They can and do place weapons, plant them, to say they were attacked – that is another well used excuse.
The idea of rushing to take weapons means to plant the idea of violent militancy. There may have been a change of course to avoid the interception of the Israeli military, but there was no attempt to disarm boarded and armed military personnel – there was just plain cold blooded murder. I know this might be hard for the tender sensibilities of some, but if you have not been following the wanton murder of Palestinians or it was just something theoretical (perhaps not purposefully, you just cannot fathom the depravity) now you have some more evidence that they have no compunction of committing the same atrocities on equally unarmed civilians.
Reporter from Jerusalem on AJ said there were no weapons aboard the flotilla, and said that was confirmed.
Just checked around the web a little. Yup, the Zionist line is that this flotilla was an attack on Israel, with the intent of “wiping Israel out, and all traces of Jewish life”.
And here comes ol’ Netanyahoo to rub it in Obama’s face next week.
What a prize chump that Obama turns out to be.
Mouser,
You can rest assured that this is the line that Witty will
be taking until the truth us exposed.
Israel will probably keep all witnesses incarcerated for a long Rome so that they have no chance to give their account to the media.
“You can rest assured that this is the line that Witty will
be taking until the truth us exposed”
I’m sure you’re right, but really, what truth remains to be exposed?
14-16 dead, on the high seas, seems like a truth that can’t be obfuscated or obscured. And rising, by the minute.
Number of killed starting to reach 14 to 16
HuffPo is not letting lots of comments through, not headlining this. Allowing some anti-Israel comments through but they are doing it by waiting until they will show up on pages 2 and 3 etc.
HuffPo just made itself irrelevant in my mind.
HuffPo has been irrelevant for quite a while, as far as I’m concerned.
NTV –
reporting that and Israeli private TV is reporting 16 people dead now.
in Ankara: Gaby Levy (the ambassador) has still not arrived at the Foreign Affairs dept. (he has been called.) The Foreign Affairs Minister is actually in Brazil right now, Prime Minister Erdogan is in Chile. They are all following the news. THere’s a crisis committee at the Foreign Affairs and they will release an official statement later on today.
There are protests in front of the Israeli ambassador Gaby Levy’s house in Ankara. Reporting protesters are members of IHH (the aid org.) There’s been tension w/ the police and the police cleared out in front of the ambassador’s door. Riot police is on the ground. Gaby Levy will prob. leave soon the reporter says to go to his meeting in Foreign Affairs.
Hearing 16 people killed is making the crowd angrier.
the best news is coming from al Jezeera Live Station:
link to livestation.com
Israel radio is confirming there are fatalities. They are sourcing it to Turkish radio. That is standard procedure when there is a censor gag. Israeli radio is one phone call away from the center of military operations.
NTV –
they’re talking to Barghouti now.
He says this is a massacre and an attack on all of the countries involved. He says this is an unmatched act of aggression and calls for a boycott. It’s a crime against the world/humanity.
Reporters asking him about what’s going on in Ramallah. B. says there’ll be a civil disobedience act there (which they’re planning right now.) They are also expecting Egypt and other countries to protest.
Israeli government has just issued its generic “We regret any casualties”.
Utter crap.
“I weep for you,” the walrus said, “I deeply sympathize.”
The government mouthpieces, oops, reporters, are talking about it as a fashla, colloquial Hebrew for cock-up. Police are on high alert in anticipation of a backlash from Arabs in Israel. Reports that an influential Israeli Palestinian was on board and was wounded.
This thing went very badly for Israel despite all their careful planning.
I was taught never to confront a mugger. Reports are saying people tried to seize the commandos’ weapons. Were the wounded intentionally trying to push the Israeli attackers to violence? Not to be flip, and in all seriousness, but as martyrs the wounded and dead are having a powerful impact.
Eliot,
I’m going to pretend that you didn’t just write that.
“Were the wounded intentionally trying to push the Israeli attackers to violence”
Richard, is that you? Why aren’t you posting under your own name?
Israeli radio is reporting that one of the Israeli soldiers was wounded by stab wounds to the belly.
I’ll accept that the Israelis are stupid but the Hasbara machine took great pains to control the message.
This was not what they planned for or desired.
On the other hand, the Palestinians on board the boats may have chosen not to surrender to the illegal Israeli attack.
Avi – I know feelings are running high but let’s stay civil. We’re on the same side.
If I was on the flotilla and a squad of Israeli commandos dropped in and started street-sweeping the deck, I know I would attempt to get any gun away from any murderer that I could reach.
What did I say that wasn’t civil? Are you now being proactive in your warnings to me, predicting what I’m about to say?
You’re being overly defensive. Indeed, let us keep things civil.
“This was not what they planned for or desired.”
Yes Elliot, I know this is what you are trying to communicate, that the Israelis had no intention to murder anyone, you made that clear by thrice reporting that the Israelis were attacked on board the boat. The Israelis “never” intend to kill anyone, it just sort of happens when you come with live ammunition on a boat and start firing.
My question to you is when are you going to learn that this is standard Israeli bullshit? There is no militancy except that of illegally jumping on boats in international water and opening fire – I know that is hard for you to understand. It must be difficult for you to understand, because as I said above you have now given us several common excuses that have been used repeatedly for killing Palestinians and now used in this scenario.
As I said before, and I am getting tired of repeating myself – there is nothing more militant and violent than what the Israelis did here, understand? The repetition of false stories like this are done so that you can come to the conclusion that you made –
“This was not what they planned for or desired.
On the other hand, the Palestinians on board the boats may have chosen not to surrender to the illegal Israeli attack.
Avi – I know feelings are running high but let’s stay civil. We’re on the same side.”
So you have been an obedient and logical reader, you have swallowed the hasbara whole, so no one can say that you are incapable of not coming to the conclusion that the Israelis want you to come to. The Israelis never “desire or plan” to kill the Palestinians either, but that is what happens when you indiscriminately bomb, shoot live rounds into crowds, drop phosphorous on civilian centers, shoot missiles into populations, fire from tanks, etc.
I know feelings are running high but let’s stay civil
FUCK OFF
” Not to be flip, and in all seriousness, but as martyrs the wounded and dead are having a powerful impact.”
I expect that the witnesses, especially the wounded will be kept away from the public for quote some time so that their testimony is not allowed to contradict the Israrli version if events.
Who is Elliot? I thought he had been making reasonable comments. Is this a habara sleeper? — ingratiate himself with a group and then at a time of crisis emerge to deflect and confuse.
syvanen, events like this bring out people’s real feelings. Eliot seems to feel that if the activists did anything but line up and get shot by the Israelis, they were “provoking”.
Witty, zamaaz, and now Eliot.
“Were the wounded intentionally trying to push the Israeli attackers to violence?”
Not the wounded Elliot. The dead! The dead intentionally tried to push the Israeli attackers to violence!
Moron!
“Moron!”
Ok, Elliot, I get this back..Benefice of the doubt etc, etc.
By the way, Elliot,
Let me remind you that during the Gaza massacre, of the 11 Israelis who were killed, 3 were soldiers. And all three were killed by friendly fire. None of the Israeli troops were killed by Palestinians. The Israeli government has confirmed so, as well.
Let’s not flip out on Elliot here. He’s asking a serious question. I disagree with the premise of it but just asking that doesn’t turn him into a “hasbara agent.”
Chaos, what is the “serious” question that Eliot is asking? He seems to me to be asking a very serious question, whether the entire flotilla was involved in a cynical lie, ostensibly bringing aid to Gaza, but really instead, they were just looking for a chance to make martyrs out of themselves, and fools out of their supporters.
He’s just as serious as Witty, only a little more direct.
Or maybe Eliot is asking this because that is what he would do. That’s usually the basis for estimating the basis of other’s behavior.
Sickening.
NTV is saying there might be a news blackout in Israel and Israeli TVs are showing footage from other countries.
TR Foreign Affairs says they are protesting this and that this is unacceptable.
More to come from TR FA.
THe protest in front of the Israeli Consulate in Istanbul are turning into a mourning ceremony. There’s footage of people sitting. (it looks like it turned into a calmer sit-in.) There are 2000 people there now, reporter says. People are praying for the dead and injured.
Foreign Affairs says they are protesting Israel in the strongest way possible and that they are still waiting for the ambassador to explain. FA says that such an attack on civilians is unacceptable. Reporter says FA responded strongly.
“Al Jazeera can confirm that Israeli forces have used gas and fire guns”
Al – Jazeera and the Twitter feed from Free Gaza are reporting that the ships Israel has seized will be taken the port in Haifa, not Ashdod, since journalists and news media were expecting the ships to be taken to Ashdod.
Israel, as usual, doesn’t like transparency.
All is over bar the shouting: Phil’s streamed video is the same one I’ve been following, and has very little new information.
Presumably the clumsy Israeli goons will take some hours and cause more than a few casualties, as they round up the 600 or so passengers on the Mavi Marmara and other boats, for temporary imprisonment in Ashdod. Then the Israeli tamed judiciary will have a hell of load of deportation proceedings to hear, besides the civil rights cases they already have to deal with, but they’ll deal with them in the same way.
Neither the British Guardian or Independent (normally reliable independent news sources) even mention these events on their websites.
Clearly, there is a quiet, but very powerful, international conspiracy to silence every report.
Perhaps Netanyahoo’s first comment when he meets Princess Obama at lunchtime will be”Well, we’ve fucked the Gazans again!”
Richard, I don’t think this one is over yet, by a long shot.
BBC has it.
The story has now bumped the oil spill off the top spot at news.google.com
Palestinian TV, Al-Aqsa, is now reporting 20 killed.
Sheikh Raed Sallah, the Palestinian in out of Israeli prisons for his activism in Jerusalem that is on board has been seriously wounded. The captain of one of the ships is also wounded and in serious condition.
The Israeli government has long viewed Sheikh Raed Sallah as a “nusance” because he speaks against Israel’s abuse of the Palestinian citizens of Israel.
Gosh Eliot, I guess those people on the boat were just pushing each other out of the way to get martyred, huh? “Oh, let me be the martyr!” “No, no I was here first!” “No, it’s my turn to be a martyr!”
You don’t think all this death could possibly be because the Israelis came aboard with guns blazing, do ya? Nah, it was all those activists who felt they could help the cause most by getting martyred! Jesus. I wonder why they even bother with all the boats and the stuff?
Manaar reporting that the 600-passeger Marmara has been boarded but still NOT under the control of the Israeli forces. 9 of the dead identified so far are Turkish.
Turkey summoned the Israeli ambassador. He’s yet to show up, probably dragging his feet as an act of defiance and as a snub.
“9 of the dead identified so far are Turkish.”
This will certainly set the Turkish street ablaze. This is far from being a finished business. It smells very bad for Israel.
You seem awfully confident about what happened. I absolutely believe it possible that the Palestinians on board were eager to resist the Israeli soldiers and took unnecessary risks. I doubt that they intentionally threw themselves in front of the bullets but when you resist a mugger you may get hurt. I think they were ok with that. The Israelis may have been thinking like our Mondo friends who can’t accept that.
For the meantime, we are all in the dark. I am no traitor to the cause for speculating. Forgive me, dear friends.
I don’t think Israel intended to create this PR debacle.
Do you?
So you think the Palestinians on board got behind the Israelis and pulled the trigger of their guns?
And you think people are to be blamed if the resist boarders on the high seas?
Mooser – that’s not what I said. Did I blame them for resisting? Not at all.
G’night.
No Elliot, did they resist? That is the question, you seem convinced of it, you can say goodnight but your posts remain. For some reason you like ignoring the posting of some (yours truly), and responding to others. What is the matter? Were my conclusions too devastating? Did they make too much sense? Or is it – “This was not what they planned for or desired,” poor murdering Israelis.
They were fucking asleep, Eliot. They stormed the boat in the dark in the middle of the night. Fercrissake, check your timeline.
MRW – how do you know they were asleep?
Do you believe Israel desired this outcome? The Hasbara apparatus around this was meticulous. This is, as the Israel establishment is conceding, a cock-up.
“This is, as the Israel establishment is conceding, a cock-up.”
Exactly, the Israeli commandos came in with guns blazing. They needed no provocation.
How do I know they were asleep
Because they attacked at 3:30 AM their time. And if you heard the fiurst reports, it was widely reported they attacked in the middle of the night.
Because an American woman reported that the last communique she got from people on another boat at 2 AM was that all was quiet and they were all going to sleep.
Because I have two feeds going on here and I’m listening to BBC on the radio.
And from Lubna onboard a ship in Phil’s pos abovet: we didnt expect them now, we thought they will arrive at the morning.
No MRW, according to Elliot, the civilians were crouched waiting to spring on the poor illegal attackers, even though they had no weapons. Also, do not forget, the Israelis never plan to kill anyone, ever, that is why so many are murdered. The Israelis always have to watch out for the militant and violent Muslims, even when they are firing at them on boats – they just fanatically rush the Israelis. They want to be martyred, and go to paradise – it is that “religion of death thing.” But never forget, the Israelis never want to do any harm (I hope you are following my sarcasm, and this time it is sarcasm, meant to be so biting that it takes someones head clear off their shoulders).
And they knew they could fire because the activists didn’t have guns.
” I absolutely believe it possible that the Palestinians on board were eager to resist the Israeli soldiers and took unnecessary risks.”
Based on what? Their Arab death-cult personalities? The fact that Palestinians love to die?
You “absolutely believe it’s possible” based on the stated intentions of the participants?
But of course, you “absolutely” can’t believe the Israeli soldiers came on board and started shooting? Because they’ve never, ever fired indiscriminately before?
Mooser – again, that’s not what I said. Don’t stick me with you racist stuff.
I can’t respond every time you use my words to go off on a tangent.
Guys – is this fun for you? It ain’t for me.
For the record – I’m horrified and disgusted by this brutal attack. As with all muggings, all the responsibility lies with the attacker. I plan to join a demonstration outside the local Israeli consulate that is being organized for Tuesday. My conjectures stand.
G’night.
Witty and the other Hasbarists should be up soon. Have fun.
“but when you resist a mugger you may get hurt”
Exactly, Eliot! So you are saying they deliberately wanted to get hurt?
Look, Eliot, why not base your estimate of what the flotilla participants would do based on, lacking any other information what you would have done? Assuming, of course that the flotilla participants are people just like you and me, if you can.
If you were on a boat, with nothing except maybe carving knives as a weapon, and absolutely no military plans at all, would you jump a bunch of soldiers with bullet-proof vests and automatic weapons, who arrived in a co-ordinated assault? You wouldn’t even have time to formulate a plan, let alone execute it! Or you think they all said: “This is our big chance! Let’s be martyrs!” C’mon!
Just look at the delusional narrative comming out of the Zionosphere.
“According to the Telegrpah, UK Israeli warships have attacked at least one of the six ships carrying pro-Hamas activists trying to breach Israeli sovereignty, killing at least 10 and wounding about 50: ”
And
“Unfortunately, this is becoming another PR nightmare for Israel, who we believe should have threatened these Hamas sympathizers all along. Let this be a message to any “peace activists” who try to aid and abet the enemies of the Jewish people and Israel. ”
link to thejidf.org
And this is the Israel that Witty insists can be reached by mutual acceptance?
“I don’t think Israel intended to create this PR debacle.”
Elliot
Maybe it has escaped you that this operation wasn’t and could not have been meant as a PR campaign. They were out to stop the whole damn thing at ANY COST as that fascist of a FM, Lieberman, has declared. Obviously no matter what the outcome was going to be, PR wasn’t the concern here.
Also, what Tel Aviv or Jerusalem wants (to not have a PR debacle) is a long way away when you’re rappeling down a rope with an Uzi. Maybe the Israeli troops wanted something else.
Remember, a lot of the IDF and its Officers come straight from the settlements. Maybe they had something else in mind then preventing a PR debacle?
As if the Israelis are very sensitive to the demands of PR these days.
Elliot if you are sincere you are being extremely insensitive. It would like just pointing out to a rape victim that she was dressed in very provocative clothes, not that this justified the assault but that you think this a relevant fact to consider.
NTV — (Turkish)
Israeli radio says that the press has been banned from reporting on the number of dead and injured going into hospitals.
Americans, take Felice’s advice, call the State Dept at 202-647-4000, but scroll up to see what to say to get the right person. I just called. All the woman would say is that ‘we are watching the situation now’.
The State Dept needs to hear from American citizens pissed at this. Call them in the middle of the night.
The starting point in any future discussion on what happened should be based on the fact that Israel does NOTHING without America’s prior approval.
So what? The only thing that terrifies this govt is people in the streets.
All the Jewish donor money in the world means zipperino if the people wont vote for you and want you out of office. That’s why Fox news is allowed to exist, and why CNN and MSNBC no longer report foreign news accurately, and why psy-ops teams are in the broadcast newsrooms and have been since the Kosovo War in 1999. And dont ask me for a link. I’m tired of providing proof of this.
USS Liberty was approved ?
c’mon, Walid, israel is a rogue actor and does what it wants when it wants and only works in unison with the US sometimes
Upon boarding the ships, the soldiers encountered fierce resistance from the passangers who were armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. The soldiers used non-lethal measures to disperse the crowd. The activists succeeded in stealing the weapon from one of the IDF’s soldiers and reportedly opened fire, leading to an escalation in violence.
“It was like a well-planned lynch,” one IDF officer said. “These people were anything but peace activists.”
Max, this isn’t the time for this.
he isn’t satirizing. this is verbatim from Jerusalem Post.
link to jpost.com
The spin has begun.
I thought you were quoting a news report!
Sorry Max! You were quoting a news report! This is a nightmare!
I, never in a million years, would I have thought maximalist Narriative was quoting an actual news report. If I hadn’t seen it for myself….. I still can hardly believe it.
Maybe he should be shown how to use the quotation marks.
Where do these fucking idiots like MN come from? Listen, wrong site jerk off, people have brains here, go to Green Footballs or something… (yes, you got it right, you do not deserve a response of any substance).
I suspect maxilmalistNarrative might be Witty.
“Upon boarding the ships, the soldiers encountered fierce resistance from the passangers who were armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. The soldiers used non-lethal measures to disperse the crowd. The activists succeeded in stealing the weapon from one of the IDF’s soldiers and reportedly opened fire, leading to an escalation in violence.
“It was like a well-planned lynch,” one IDF officer said. “These people were anything but peace activists.””
We can safely dismiss this as utter bullshit because any such move was guaranteed to be suicidal. If a gun was seized, then how does that explain the alleged stab wounds to an Israeli thugg?
Obviously, the false BS is already being planted and the actual victims will not be allowed to give their version of events.
At any rate, now we know where all that “I am sure” the activists are “praying” for violence, and “I hope they really don’t have weapons” blather from Witty was headed.
Funny, Witty had a more realistic idea of what Israel was going to do than most of us, I think. As usual, he expressed it with projection, but he was right.
I sure didn’t think it would come to this. But unfortunately, one of the consequences of being anti-Zionist is that you have to give the Zionists more credit than they deserve. Zionist-supporters don’t really have that problem.
tweets deny that activists fired on IDF pigs:
link to witnessgaza.com
Israeli Ambassador refusing to report the Turkish Foreign Ministry as asked to do. He is claiming that his life would be in danger on his way to there.
Walid thanks for the update.
This is ridiculous.
I truly hope that Israel will not try to deflect by doing some even crazier thing. Like starting a war with Iran.
Or that after a week or everything will go back to normal.
In my country Sweden, there have already been several mp:s who has said, that this will not stand. There will be severe consequences. So far nothing from the sitting government.
Jerusalem Post:
International activists aboard the flotilla of ships on their way to the Gaza Strip opened fire on IDF soldiers who boarded the ships to prevent them from breaking the Israeli-imposed sea blockade, the IDF said Monday.
Of course Israel won’t allow any independent investigation, so it will always be a he said/she said.
Consider it more bullshit until witnesses are allowed to report what happened.
There are going to be demonstrations breaking out all over the West Bank and Gaza in response to this. People are already gathering in the centre of Ramallah. I predict riots at some of the checkpoints with a severe response from the IDF and possibly the Palestinian security forces.
If the Israeli navy did NOT deliberately shoot the activists, then why did they rappel down from helicopters as if this were Entebbe? Why the commandos in the first place?
It’s akin to bringing in a swat team to a Codepink sit-in. The act is supposed to be a show of force, mostly for domestic, but also for regional propaganda.
Back in 2006, when the ceasefire between Israel and Hezbollah went into effect, less than 24 hours later, Israeli commandos flew to the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon and disguised themselves as as Lebanese Army squad, with a Jeep and all the right markings etc.
By dawn, the Israeli government was bragging about the brazen operation in which the commandos managed to kidnap two allegedly ranking Hizbollah fighters.
What was the point of THAT operation?
Well, after the Israeli army was sent packing from Bint Jubeil in southern Lebanon, the Israeli government decided to stage a brazen operation to boost the morale in Israel.
The attack on the FreeGaza flotilla has the hallmark of propaganda written all over it.
The fact that the Israeli press is claiming this was a fashla (Hebrew for SNAFU) is quite meaningless. Why? Because how else is Israel supposed to boost domestic morale, without showing its ugly face to the Israeli masses? The attack on Gaza was marketed as an act of self-defense. This was more difficult for the Israeli government to spin.
Plus, how many times before has Israel, Mark Regev being its ardent spokesperson, have claimed that “this was a terrible mistake and we regret the casualties”?
It’s become a broken record, a cry-wolf type of thing.
Press TV reporting that Israeli subs will enter Persian Gulf in future:
link to presstv.com
Am I right in thinking this is a deliberate slap in the face to Obama?
Can’t completely discount the other possibility, that the Israeli troops, no matter how carefully Israel is trying to manage the PR, just went nuts, and did what they, or the officers, felt like doing. And felt like big heroes, defenders of Israel, for doing it.
Mooser, that could very well be a possibility. But, it’s important to keep one thing in mind, an army doesn’t bring in its special units unless they intend to use them.
Another thing I just realized is this:
Back in 2008, just a day or two before Israel unleashed hell on Gaza (December, 27, 2008), out of the blue, the Israeli government allowed several aid trucks to go into Gaza. After months of blockade, this act was a diversionary tactic. It had the eeriness of the proverbial calm before the storm. Know what I mean?
The same thing happened this time around with the flotilla. Israel claimed that it had prepared air conditioned tends with beverages and what not for the activists, but at the same time sends the Navy in heavy, guns blazing.
*airconditioned tents
I see, Avi. I bet you could probably estimate how violent their reception would be by the lavishness of the refreshments in the tents.
One is the setup for the other Avi, the announcement of having airconditioned tents etc. is meant to make you believe there is no harm intended. Than, when you get the impression there is no harm intended, when the guns start blazing it is plausible denial for such things as “the activists attacked us!” So what you are supposed to come away with is “we wanted a camp cookout with toasted marshmallows for the activists, but they attacked us, so we had to kill them. Do you think we would have gone through the trouble of providing for their comfort is we planned to kill them?” It is just immense horse shit.
That’s sure how it looks to me.
Mooser, VR,
I know what you both mean. Those are exactly my sentiments.
Yes Mooser, you picked up on the thought processes that were supposed to enter the minds of the activists, and I picked up on what their bullshit is to the general public. (this is why I strongly warned these murderers earlier that they better not do this, because it was easy to see what was coming)
There is one of two things going on here with these setups, either they think the general public is incapable of seeing through their garbage, or they are so mentally deficient at this point (ziocaine) that their decrepit minds can’t think of any other subterfuge. One thing is for sure, if others cannot see through it I will make sure that they do by pounding it home, and I do not tire taking their thinly veiled clothing off and making them naked in public.
i’m livid
I wish there was more I could say. I always knew this was a possibility but somehow I really did hope that courage would prevail, and Israel would back down instead of murdering people.
No Mooser, this was planned with the consent of America and it isn’t a slap since Obama had to have given his consent.
I agree with you Walid, I think there was total agreement between them.
it better not have been (the timing is suspicious with the elections approaching the jewish money Democrats need, and Rahm in israel) … obama will be a ruined president if he allows this without a stern rebuke and real consequences
“…and Rahm in israel…”
Well radii, this was part of the agenda that Rahm had on his visit, to let NuttyYahoo know that anything they did to the flotilla activists was just fine with him (Obama). Than they laughed together, and YahooNut said “we have set it up great, we made everyone feel comfortable with airconditioned tents and fine foods waiting, so we can use it as plausible denial and say that the activists attacked us. Plus, it has an added bonus, with a few deaths it will serve as a warning for anyone else trying this in the future (and we also get to hide the damage we did to Gaza from others).” Than they posed after Rahm said to nutty “come on down!” (to the Whitehouse) –
ALL SMILES
I am very deeply disappointed that neither the Independent nor the Guardian seems to have covered this event on their websites at all:
link to guardian.co.uk
link to independent.co.uk
The Indie’s latest set of news headlines is:
Will Laws’ departure undermine coalition?
US hopes for oil solution fall apart
UK faces revolt in Caribbean idyll
Police order forensic tests on suitcase found in river
Tory donor failed vetting process for House of Lords
Unite calls for BA talks to take place in public
Ministers plan exemptions to rise in capital gains tax
Heating benefits for ex-pat elderly to be cut
Iran outflanks Israel in nuclear diplomacy
China shields North Korea at crisis summit
Medicines boycott hits debt relief plan
Afghan insurgents drag Nato forces into ‘green hell’
Vatican reaches out to atheists and agnostics
LSE chief attacks short-selling ban
Hamilton holds off Button burst to seal victory
Japan own goals spare England’s blushes
FA calls Capello crisis talks
Murray out in the cold in French Open
from which you might judge just how much better the British are informed by their media than the US is.
Worse, on the Mavi Marmara live stream that I have been watching (now mostly supplanted by tvNet) there were several independent statements in English, but each one was overrun by a Turkish lady announcer, talking over, drowning the comment. She stopped as soon as a Turkish or Arabic reporter spoke.
Very clearly, Arabs and Turks know what is going on, but the English-speaking world is being denied any opportunities to find out.
Arabs and Turks are both part of the ‘Moslem world’ , so whose heavy hand should we suspect in this case?
The fact that they decided to board the boats suggests that this wasn’t troops going crazy, they wanted a confrontation. Otherwise they could have just corralled the flotilla and blocked their path.
With all the reports now of Israel preparing for unrest in the OT, it seems that might be something they sought, to derail US efforts on talks. Now Abbas cannot sit at the table or in “proximity” with them for a good while.
Greta Beilin, organizer of the flotilla, blasts the IDF action:
link to livestation.com
Just called the State Dept., dialed 1 for emergency. A girl picked up and said they are “watching the situation right now,” in response to my “what does the state dept intend to do if Americans are killed by the Israelis?”
I also said that Obama should cancel his “ass-kissing meeting with Natenyahoo on Tuesday.” She said she will register that comment as well.
Could there be a worse feeling in the world than to feel so helpless?
she said the IDF came down from helicopters firing before they hit the deck. she calls it an act of murder.
That makes sense. A guy rapelling down from a helo is very vulnerable, and requires covering fire. And in the dark?
They came in, guns blazing.
I’ve spent some time calling the news desks of the major broadcast news networks (CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN) and berated them for not breaking into their recorded coverage.
This is the BIG story – much bigger than the oil spill in the Gulf, yet no news about it on CNN website, or on the airwaves – timing no doubt calculated by israel and I’ve gotten snooty replies from all those manning the phones at the respective news desks
This just further shows the true colors of Israel. We as humans cannot let this happen but the corrupt world that we live in means that more than likely nothing will happen or be done by Europe or the USA. BTW THIS HAS HAPPENED BEFORE, LOOK AT THIS ARTICLE:
link to guardian.co.uk
Why people can’t see the truth bogles my mind. Stop denying what you see with bad excuses, its disgusting.
Watching Al J English. I’m amazed by the Israeli hoodlums standing behind Sherine Tadros while she tries to report out of the Occupied Palestine. Whenever she speaks they stand behind her with an Israeli flag and chant and try to intimidate her. What a disgusting bunch of people.
The same 5 clowns , one draped in an Israeli flag did likewise during the Arabic Jazeera telecast.
Unbelievable, Reuters says:
The bloodshed thwarted Israel’s hopes of avoiding casualties — which could hurt its diplomatic relations, especially with Turkey, where media reported ministers were meeting. Israel’s Western allies have also been critical of its Gaza embargo.
I don’t find that unbelievable. Reuters doesn’t usually get caught in outright lies… but they do a mean job of spinning what they do report.
Ha’aretz is now quoting the Israeli army saying that there was live fire from the passengers.
Guess they just forgot to mention it before.
It’s interesting how the Israeli media and Galei Tzahal know exactly what happened aboard those ships (so they claim), know exactly how each Israeli soldier was injured and the number of the soldiers injured. But, they can’t seem to figure out exactly how many activists have been wounded and killed.
Also, as you alluded in your post, it’s interesting how the reports went from “They tried to grab our weapons” to “they had knives” to “they attacked us with guns, bats and knives”.
Yes the story changing is sure sign thf Istaeli narrative is already falling apart.
The JP article even suggested that Israeli soldiers were among the dead.
They quickly pulled back from that, now saying six soldiers gravely injured.
The point is even if they had fired bazookas at the commandos they would have been completely justified. As they were being overrun by Pirates on the high seas. So any bullshit about casulties taken by the goonsquad should be moot. If they hadn’t illegally boarded the vessel they wouldn’t have been injured. This day will live in infamy.
I find that hard to believe that it happened. But even if it were true, those ships were under attack by what was essentially an act of international piracy.
injured to Tel Hashomer in Tel Aviv, Belinson according to Israeli source. They are also posting 16 dead
Ynet:
Barak speaks with Turkish ministers after Gaza ship incident
Defense minister telephones Ankara officials, holds emergency meeting with IDF chief of staff. Meanwhile, Minister Ben-Eliezer says, ‘It was obvious this was media provocation. We are not Shiite suicide attackers, soldiers must defend themselves‘
He says the troops were “ambushed”!
The minister is an asshole, there has been more Sunni suicide bombers than Shia ones.
Small demonstration starting up in Amman. There are 25 Jordanians on the trip.
What’s a “Shiite suicide attacker”? That’s the first time I heard this particular retarded Israeli term.
Why does he compare IDF to suicide bombers? Is he admitted they went to kill, but unlike the suicide bombers they definitely didn’t want to die themselves. Garbage.
The #$% is in Qatar for the WEF… and he’s SO BRAVE!
Despite the takeover, Ben-Eliezer plans to continue his visit in Qatar. “I am going forward with my visit as scheduled. I am scheduled to appear in a number of panels at the World Economic Forum. While it may be unpleasant, I am used to such situations, there is no threat to my wellbeing,” he said.
Ahmed, you have to puit it in the context that the leaders of the Sunni Arab world teams up with Israel ( cutting off funds to Gaza and the closure of the Rafah crossing during Israel’s turkey-shoot)when it comes to dealing with the heretical Shia. The asshole minister is kissing up to those Sunni leaders by disparaging the Shia.
Walid,
Bingo.
It was a very strange comment. I mean that is not a comment made out of “ignorance” it’s way more calculated than that. They’re trying to paint Iran and Hezbollah as evil to justify any future wars so they drop these subtle little comments which are nonsensical but sound “smart” to the Palin type constituency that the Zionists are depending on. But they don’t even need to pander to the dirty sectarian Arab regimes, they can get those Arab traitors to do what they want without all the theatrics.
@Seham, yes that struck me as a way of conjuring up the image of Hezbollah, and by association Iran. @$$holes
did israel jam cell phone and sat-phones and streaming vids?
why isn’t there video of what actually happened?
we all know here, but for those easily swayed by israeli propaganda, the images will expose the lies
Ali Abunimah:
Israeli fascists call for expulsion of Arabs, try to drown out Aljazeera’s Walid al-Omari during Ashkelon live shot #flotilla
link to aliabunimah.posterous.com
Turkish TV: 10 confirmed dead, 7-8 Israeli soldiers wounded. Ships taken to Ashdod #Flotilla
Turkish TV reports the following (thanks to a friend who is monitoring it):
Press Secretary from the Israeli PM’s office on Turkish TV states that
- Flotilla was planned provocation not to help Gaza
- 10 confirmed dead, uncertain how many wounded
- 7-8 Israeli soldiers wounded
- Ships will be taken to Ashdod not Haifa
- Israel is claiming that there was resistance and small firearms were seized
- They are preparing reports for the press
“last we heard, Israeli soldiers landed on the top deck of the Turkish boat & opened fire” – Adam Shapiro #flotilla
The last we heard, Israeli soldiers landed on the top deck of the Turkish boat and opened fire,” said Adam Shapiro
link to aliabunimah.posterous.com
The Istaelis ate even having a news blackout sbout which hospitals the wounded gave been taken to.
They are clearly in a panic.
“Israel is claiming that there was resistance and small firearms were seized.”
Yes, these are the weapons that were planted by the Israelis, which I spoke about earlier. These liars never change their methods.
God, I hope so. Once they started getting shot at with machine guns, I really hope that those that were under attack tried to fight back however they could.
Ma’ariv is now reporting 20 dead among the activists.
“A guy rapelling down from a helo is very vulnerable, and requires covering fire”
why didn’t the IDF Navy just attach a rope to the boat and tow it away? why was it necessary to jump from helicopters firing onto peaceful people?
Exactly. They wanted this confrontation so now they can go into their “the whole world hates us and wants to eliminate us” mode more effectively. And make it untenable for Abbas to try to talk.
“They wanted this confrontation”
Hardly a confrontation. They were shot during their sleep. Here:
# freegazaorg…about 14 minutes ago:
Israeli spin is that THEY were attacked first. Of course, you can see the video where they rappel, aim and shoot at civilians sleeping
link to witnessgaza.com
That’s easy — because when you order a guy to rappel from a helicopter, it gives you an excuse to cause “collateral damage” with “covering fire.”
Haaretz says Nutanyahoo “mulls” canceling the US trip. Seems like a trial balloon
Ahmed, Netanyahu is already in Toronto to kick off the annual fund drive. There was a demonstration against his presence in Canada and this is part of his speech yesterday:
“… You march against those who hate freedom and celebrate death. And you march for those who cherish freedom and celebrate life. You march against those who oppose peace … You march against terrorists who target civilians … You march against tyrannies that oppress women, gays, minorities. Who murder their own people. We saw that picture of that young girl lying on the sidewalk, choking on her own blood. You march against those tyrannies.”
and of course, no speech is complete without dragging out the holocaust:
“… First and foremost is the challenge of preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons,” he said. “We have to ensure that this regime, which is the world’s leading sponsor of terrorism, a regime that shamelessly denies the Holocaust and a regime that talks about wiping Israel off the face of the Earth … does not acquire these weapons of mass destruction.”
Read more: link to news.nationalpost.com
*gag*
Good night all, and thanks for all the info. What a terrible night.
So that’s the line Israel is going to take, that the entire flotilla was a cynical ploy, meant as a provocation, and acting to produce martyrs. Which, of course, makes all supporters of the flotilla dupes.
# freegazaorg’s avatarabout 14 minutes ago:
Israeli spin is that THEY were attacked first. Of course, you can see the video where they rappel, aim and shoot at civilians sleeping
link to witnessgaza.com
about 1 hour ago:
There was no fire from our side. Watch the IHH video of soldiers firing the moment their feet hit the deck. They shot civilians asleep.
about 1 hour ago:
Israeli mouthpiece says soldiers responded to fire by firing back.That is a lie. Video from IHH shows soldiers landing on deck and shooting
Mooser. Have a good night. I’m going to get some shuteye too. This is turning out to be much worse than I had expected. I figured worst case scenario the Israeli army would use tear gas to force the boats to Ashdod. I didn’t expect THIS. I don’t even want to think about what tomorrow will bring. Be safe.
I went to sleep worried, but I didn’t believe it would come to this either. What a tragedy. For anyone in Rome, there will be a protest this afternoon at Piazza San Marco (near Piazza Venezia).
And I have not been able to sleep, I think you know why
I believed it.
What needs to happen is that the video showing the Israelis attacking has to be emailed FIRST to friends and groups, then put up on every website carrying their hasbara.
# freegazaorg’s avatarabout 4 minutes ago:
Now we’re getting threatening phone calls from Israeli thugs telling us we should drown or can we swim.
FROM AL JAZEERA* : …Free Gaza Movement, the organisers of the flotilla, however, said the troops opened fire as soon as they stormed the ships. They also said the ships were now being towed to the Israeli town of Haifa, instead of Ashdod, to avoid waiting journalists…
* UPDATED ON: MONDAY, MAY 31, 2010 – 07:35 GMT
ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to english.aljazeera.net
RE: “They also said the ships were now being towed to the Israeli town of Haifa, instead of Ashdod, to avoid waiting journalists…”
UPDATE: This sentence has now been removed from the article.
Everyone can follow the tweets here:
link to witnessgaza.com
Al Jazeera has started a live blog of developments since the attack (Which the London Times calls “clashes”)
link to blogs.aljazeera.net
Maan ticker is saying that Sheikh Raed Saleh was killed.
Richard Silverstein says this could trigger a third intifada. As I commented there:
enough to plunge Israel into a third Intifada
This is what they want, an excuse for further oppression in the WB, the peace talks on ice for a good decade or more, settlements continue apace. And all for a dozen or so lives. What a bargain.
They’ve got a tiger by the tail. We’re pretty sure that Turkish citizens have been murdered, and if any Europeans have been murdered — especially politicians — there will be hell to pay.
Israel thinks they’re up against a third intifada? What they’re gambling on getting is World War III.
If that is true, this could snowball into a great deal more violence.
IDF already has a video on YouTube showing an officer purportedly offering safe passage to Ashdod. I won’t link to it but it already has hundreds of views.
Well we already know that’s a lie, anyway. The ships and people aren’t being taken to Ashdod, they’re being taken to Haifa.
is anyone monitoring Ma’ariv, Yediot Aharon, JP, or Ha’aretz?
I have been (Ma’ariv, Yediot, Haaretz), but I’m afraid I have to go to work. I’ll try to have a look a little later, and report anything I come across.
Time to see how useless the ICC is at any real slap on the hand, etc etc etc
like rhinestone cowboys, of the worst kind. There seems to be a problem with
the definition held by the usa and israel on human beings and moral aptitude which elude our world leaders since we can all recall, crimes just as bad as the nanking etc and the obvious staple the holocaust…but lets not delve into the zionist party there in which millions met their end from back in germany.
why do you think it will ever matter….all anyone does is blog a rant, no legal response not is it more than a one sided apology that a full investigation is underway..meanwhile some of the others left are subject to prostate checks etc..Like I said before there is never an oportunity passed from either sides
(puppet abbass) hammas and israel to not see a grander picture and pass up the money or do the right thing…but weapons…they have weapons like the sea has salt. What type of twisted brain would teach others to act in this manner.indoctrinate their children into the same mental capacity of thought.
I think of burkas etc. and as usual nothing changes and it is just another day in whats left of paradise
From the masters of spin, deception and deceit, the IKF:
Now while you’re reading the above please keep in mind that this type of stuff has been going on for at least 62 years!
I don’t see how they think this should matter. For starters, nobody who cares about the truth is inclined to believe that. Second… this was an act of high seas piracy. Even if the activists were armed, they’d have every right to defend themselves.
Of course, I happen to think this story is a load of bullshit.
Israel again think they can control the message, but the truth is coming out. Their story doesn’t hold water and once the eye witnesses speak out, it will be another nail in the coffin of this shifty little excuse for a state.
Finally, CNN has decided to interrupt its programing and it was to present live Dany Ayalon’s speech on how the ships were transptorting arms. Of course, of course.
Audrey Bomse FGM’s legal adviser said there was an 18 month old baby on board so it was definitely not transporting arms.
“there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza” [Deaf, Dumb, and Blind Blond IDF spokes-liar]
None of know the important details of what happened. So Mondoweiss jumps in with a murder charge. Let’s watch as the information comes out and we’ll see if Mondoweiss guessed right (unlikely) or just started blasting out the slander. The facts matter. Hopefully, they will become available.
This atrocity propaganda method is called “Waving the bloody shirt” and is know to be a good way to stimulate people to violence. We’ll see if it works out that way.
Clearly, there needs to be sunshine let in to see exactly what happened. My personal speculation is that the naval infantry has had little or no experience with handling demonstrators, unlike the regular land forces, and this showed.
I also speculate that some of the video will be deliberately blocked, we’ll be looking over somebody’s shoulder, trying to figure out what’s going on.
Hamas is known to use suicide tactics, so the question of whether deliberate suicide tactics was used here will have to be on the agenda.
What, because everyone who speaks Arabic is a suicide bomber?
Fuck off, you pathetic disgrace to the Jewish people.
“Let’s watch as the information comes out and we’ll see if Mondoweiss guessed right (unlikely) or just started blasting out the slander. The facts matter. Hopefully, they will become available.”
Oh sure AreaMan,
It not like we’ve seen this before now is it? Israel attacking or massacring a population,denying it, then getting caught ton film doing it, then admitting to being a fault and regretting it.
For a start, the attack was a criminal act, taking place in international waters, so it was an act of piracy by definition.
“Clearly, there needs to be sunshine let in to see exactly what happened.”
Except that Israel is already silencing eye witnesses and keeping them under wraps while it freely gives it’s version of events to the media.
“My personal speculation is that the naval infantry has had little or no experience with handling demonstrators, unlike the regular land forces, and this showed.”
Regular land perform these atrocities every day in teh cocupied territories and Gaza.
“I also speculate that some of the video will be deliberately blocked, we’ll be looking over somebody’s shoulder, trying to figure out what’s going on.”
Blocked by whom?
“Hamas is known to use suicide tactics, so the question of whether deliberate suicide tactics was used here will have to be on the agenda.”
and if not, will you eat your words or dissapear until Israel are exposed once again as a rogue criminal state? Go back to planet Hasbara you imbecile.
What a crock of shit, AreaMan. Who’s paying you for this nonsense?
You’re out of luck this time. Too many people around the world have seen this, and seen it from the beginning.
==================
I can’t get on LiveStation. Is it being blocked?
It’s not a crock of shit. I said we don’t have full information and need it. You disagree?
Hardly anybody has seen anything except some ships bobbing around in the water and some people standing around. Everything except the important parts. Hopefully we will find out what really happened, in detail. I suppose you will be offended by this suggestion.
@Shingo
“Blocked by whom?” If I knew I’d tell you. If this thing was “Planned out” in advance then whoever did it would know there would be video cameras rolling. One would think so, anyway.
What difference would it make if I ate my words? I asked a question. Unlike the Mondoweiss blog, I didn’t make an accusation.
You should learn to be less rude.
- “Reuters reports that among the Turkish activists were 3 Turkish soldiers”
- “the israeli press conference called the flotilla a “violent armada”, parallel universe!” …3 minutes ago
- “israel is claiming that the turkish #flotilla ship was pre planning to attack israel, and that is why israelis attacked first… 6 minutes ago
-” Israel has ordered its citizens to leave Turkey after the attack on the #flotilla 7 minutes ago
-”I have news confirming that sheikh Raed Salah is undergoing an operation in Israeli Hospital! share .8 minutes ago
-”Greece, Turkey, and Spain have summoned Israeli ambassador. Jordan has done nothing. Egypt continues its co-siege of Gaza. … 9 minutes ago
More tweets:
- Israel has just announced that it will prosecute the convoy members who “attacked” its soldiers … 11 minutes ago
- Unconfirmed: Arabic language tweets claiming that Turkey has expelled the Israeli ambassador in response to the attack.. 12 minutes ago
-Sweden summons Israeli ambassador over ships to Gaza attack.. about 1 hour ago
Someone save the video of Israel descending on the Turkish ship and shooting.
The Emir of Qatar just opened the economics meeting that is being attended by the asshole minister and he declared the attack on the ships criminal.
Greece has announced the cancellation of joint military excerices with Israel.
I think Israel screwed up this time and it will take much more than the US to save its ass.
By the time I wake up in the morning I want the usurping entity’s representative in Turkey and his family put on a plane and sent back to the shit hole from where they came.
Is there any doubt that the mounting backlash in the Muslim world, against Israel’s attack on the Gaza boats, will include attacks on American interests and personnel? General Petraeus was exactly correct, from a purely American security point of view.
great comment on HuffPost
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Richard Pearce 21 minutes ago (4:05 AM)
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The pattern
The IDF inflicts some casualties that the world cares about.
Israel claims it was attacked first, and the killings were in self-defence, the PR machine starts cranking out attacks on either those who died, or those who made the charges, this PR machine will keep going with this until noone remembers why they cared about the casualties.
If enough people excuse the casualties, the pattern ends here, otherwise
Israel claims the casualties were the result of an accident.
If enough people excuse the casualties, the pattern ends here, otherwise
Israel launches an investigation, that takes months to complete
If enough people excuse or have forgotten about the casualties, the pattern ends here, otherwise
Israel announces that all IDF members have been cleared of intentional wrongdoing, but promises to take steps to prevent further accidents.
If enough people have forgotten or excused the casualties, the patern ends here, otherwise
Israel launches a second investigation, taking months.
If enough people have forgotten or excused the casualties, the patern ends here, otherwise
Israel announces that, despite the safeguards against it, one or two low level soldiers did do something minor that ended up causing those casualties. It then prosecutes for those minor offences, and from that point on, uses their prosecution to answer all claims by proclaiming itself to be the ‘most moral’
Try and find a case where this patter doesn’t fit.
The regular hasbara moderators must have been asleep.