7 Palestinians, including 3 children, killed and 52 injured as Israeli attack on Gaza continues

gaza1
Relatives of Matar Abu Al-Atta, killed the day before by an Israeli military attack, mourn during his funeral in the al-Shoja’iya neighborhood east of Gaza City , November 11, 2012.
(Photo: Anne Paq/Activestills.org)

Funerals in Gaza as Israel announces it may be escalating this madness. As per usual mainstream narrative Israel acts ‘in response’, but who started this latest round of violence and when?

This summary from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights gives details on all that have been killed so far, and clarifies that this recent round of violence began when 13-year-old Ahmed Younis Khader Abu Daqqa was killed on Thursday:

Over the past 72 hours, the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) have escalated their aerial and ground attacks against the Gaza Strip. Five Palestinian civilians, including 3 children, have been killed, and 52 others, including 6 women and 12 children, have been wounded. Four of these deaths and 38 of the injuries resulted from an Israeli attack on a football playground in al-Shoja’iya neighborhood east of Gaza City. Additionally, 2 members of the Palestinian resistance were killed, and some civilian facilities were destroyed or damaged.

According to investigations conducted by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR), at approximately 15:30 on Saturday, 10 November 2012, Israeli military vehicles stationed at the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel fired an artillery shell at a number of Palestinian children who were playing football at al-Mentar Hill east of al-Shoja’iya neighborhood, which is east of Gaza City and nearly 1,500 meters away from the border. As a result, 2 children were instantly killed:

1- Mohammed Ussama Hassan Harara (16); and

2- Ahmed Mustafa Khaled Harara (17).

Following this attack, a number of Palestinian civilians, who were in the consolation house of the Harara family, rushed to the area, where the IOF immediately fired another 3 shells. As a result, 2 Palestinian civilians were instantly killed:

1- Ahmed Kamel Al- Dirdissawi (18); and

2- Matar ‘Emad ‘Abdul Rahman Abu al-‘Ata (19).

Additionally, 38 civilians, including 8 children, were wounded; the wounding of 10 of these civilians was described by medical crews as being serious.

Earlier, on Thursday evening, 08 November 2012, the IOF killed a Palestinian child during an incursion in the ‘Abassan village, east of the southern Gaza Strip town of Khan Yunis. According to investigations conducted by PCHR, at approximately 16:30 on Thursday, as a result of the indiscriminate shooting by IOF military vehicles that had moved into the ‘Abassan village, 13-year-old Ahmed Younis Khader Abu Daqqa was seriously wounded by a bullet to the abdomen. At the time he was shot, Ahmed had been playing football with his friends in front of his family’s house, located nearly 1,200 meters away from the area where the IOF were present. He was evacuated to the European Gaza Hospital in Khan Yunis, but he was pronounced dead 15 minutes later.

Ma’an News reported on Abu Daqqa’s death on November 8th:

Hamid Younis Abu Daqqa died after Israeli forces targeted houses and farms east of Khan Younis, according to Ashraf al-Qidra, a medical spokesman in Gaza.

Medics said the boy was hit by machine gun fire, either from Israeli helicopters or tanks that took part in the incident.

Israeli military vehicles briefly penetrated the southern Gaza Strip earlier Thursday morning, leading to clashes with Palestinian militants.

The Popular Resistance Committees said its gunmen had confronted an Israeli force of four tanks and a bulldozer involved in a short-range incursion beyond Israel’s border fence with the Gaza Strip.

“Terrorists opened fire at IDF (Israeli army) soldiers while they were performing routine activity adjacent to the security fence,” an Israeli military spokeswoman said in Jerusalem. She said reports of Palestinians injuries were being checked.

Routine activity with tanks and bulldozers inside of Gaza? Just because Israel calls it ‘routine’ doesn’t justify they initiated this madness. Why did Israel invade Gaza at dawn on Thursday with eight tanks and four bulldozers?

The Palestine News Network (PNN) reported that eight Israeli tanks and four armored military bulldozers invaded, on Thursday at dawn, Abasan town, east of Khan Younis, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip, and fired smoke bombs and rounds of live ammunition.

Abu Daqqa’s funeral was Friday the ninth:

abudaqqa
Funeral of Hamid Younis Abu Daqqa, shot the day before by the Israeli army with a machine gun from an helicopter, in ‘Abassan al Kabira, east of Khan Yunis, gaza Strip, November 9, 2012. (Photo: Anne Paq/Activestills.org)

And now there are reports that Israel may escalate as Hamas joins Gaza clashes with a possible ground invasion into Gaza. We will continue to update the story as more information becomes available.

About Annie Robbins and Adam Horowitz

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a mother, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani
Posted in Gaza, Israel/Palestine, Israeli Government, Occupation

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  1. Cliff says:

    Why does this happen after an election? Just like with Cast Lead.

    • obviously cliff. believe me, i sooo thought of that. and let’s not pretend israel thinks this will impact their narrative when palestinians head to the UN on the 29th.

      but it’s not just after an election, it is also before israel’s upcoming election just like the 08/09 massacre of gaza. israeli politicians like to get their waron as part of their campaign, makes for awesome nationalistic newsbites israelis can’t get enough of. from first link in the article:

      conservative Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu may be reluctant to seem weak ahead of a January 22 general election that opinion polls currently predict he will win.

      “The world needs to understand that Israel will not sit with arms crossed when faced by attempts to hurt us. And we are prepared to harshen the response,” Netanyahu told his cabinet in remarks aired by Israeli broadcasters.

      but palestinians are supposed to sit with arms crossed when faced by israeli incursions and assassinations, and why should they stop when the media ignores how these things start and escalate.

  2. for anna paq’s photos of the funerals today:

    link to flickr.com

  3. Cliff says:

    The look on the elderly woman to the left is soul-shattering.

    This stuff makes my blood boil. And it answers the inane question of ‘Why do they hate us?’

  4. jon s says:

    Rockets fired by Palestinian terrorists are raining down on Israel’s civilian population, over 100 rockets in the last day alone. Adam and Annie apparently don’t think this worth condemning, or even mentioning.
    This is what I witnessed today in Beer Sheva:
    Today at around 2 PM, in the middle of a class I was teaching, the sirens sounded. We made sure all the kids got into the shelter, trying to project calm, telling them not to run, not to shout, no panic. Pretty soon there was a fairly loud boom – it was reported later that Iron Dome had succesfully intercepted the rocket aimed at the city. After around 10 minutes it was assumed to be safe to leave the shelter. There was no point in going back to class: we just did our best to make sure all the kids got home safely. And for myself : to check up on my family, especially my daughter who works in Sderot. We are all ok, getting ready for another tense night.

    see here:
    link to haaretz.com

    • eGuard says:

      Why doesn’t Israel propose a cease fire then?

    • Cliff says:

      jon s:

      Rockets fired by Palestinian terrorists are raining down on Israel’s civilian population, over 100 rockets in the last day alone. Adam and Annie apparently don’t think this worth condemning, or even mentioning.

      This is the same propagandistic meme used to justify Israel’s 2008 slaughter in Gaza.

      ’100s of rockets’ was instead ’1000s of rockets’.

      MW has covered the escalation of events thus far accurately and has quoted both sides by including statements from Israeli officials.

      MW obviously does not share your Zionist world-view, thus it would be odd to FOCUS on ’100s of rockets’ that do absolutely nothing in the bigger picture of these all-too-familiar skirmishes (and sometimes military incursions/slaughter of Palestinian civilians).

      As per the MW article you are so ignorant to read in full:

      [...]“Terrorists opened fire at IDF (Israeli army) soldiers while they were performing routine activity adjacent to the security fence,” an Israeli military spokeswoman said in Jerusalem. She said reports of Palestinians injuries were being checked.

      Routine activity with tanks and bulldozers inside of Gaza? Just because Israel calls it ‘routine’ doesn’t justify they initiated this madness. Why did Israel invade Gaza at dawn on Thursday with eight tanks and four bulldozers?

      That excerpt sums up the MW stance.

      You have no right to invade Gaza, but you did – hence, your troops were fired upon. The ‘terrorists’ fired on the military occupier and colonizer of their land.

      You are no more a ‘victim’ than the colonists of Jamestown’s frontier were.

      • Abdul-Rahman says:

        It must be remembered that even corporate CNN and Rick Sanchez showed that it was the Israeli military that violated the ceasefire that then led to the Zionist crimes back during their “Cast Lead” blitzkrieg in 2008-2009 link to youtube.com

        Also to start with it is the Israelis (and their US government backers) who still bare the responsibility for imposing their ongoing illegal and suffocating siege and blockade on the Gaza Strip. link to ikhwanweb.com

        The Palestinians in the Gaza Strip (a large bulk of them being refugees from what is today’s Israel) live in a cage with their entire lives controlled by the Zionists; it is not surprise that people subjected to this would try to resist in any manner possible. link to palestineremembered.com

    • jon, your haaretz article is dated today and it referenced israel’s actions as a ‘retailiation’ and called it a ” two-day cross-border escalation.”

      the msm has completely blocked out israel’s cross border invasion into gaza at dawn on thurdays morning including the air attacked and the murder of Hamid Younis Abu Daqqa.

      meanwhile, your comment completely ignored the attacks that precipitated the rocket attacks that, thus far, have killed no one.

      we have a responsibility to our readers, not to present the news every tom dick and harry can read in the bbc, cnn, reuters and everywhere else in the msm but to bring them, the truth the mainstream has blocked. the story is not about the victimhood of israelis who have to put up with the retaliation to their own government’s violent deadly provocation which initiated all this death.

      go take your complaint to haaretz! you want news about israeli victimhood, get out of here and go find it at fox news. don’t piss me off further , i am livid enough as it is!

      • Did those firing the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one?

        • Empiricon says:

          Good point, because as the Torah says, “ten eyes for the fear that an act might take one eye” Oh wait, no it doesn’t. Israel is like every other bully state in human history. It’s a self-righteous thugocracy.

        • Taxi says:

          So you wouldn’t shoot at an intruder who’s in your front yard counting the loot he stole from you?

        • you’re so predictable parkslopey. #hasbara #FAIL

        • talknic says:

          ParkSlopeSingleGuy November 11, 2012 at 10:00 pm

          Did those firing the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one?

          Hamas Charter
          Article Thirty-One: “As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly.”

          For 64 years successive Israeli Governments, elected by Israelis, HAVE been bearing arms against non-Jews in Palestine and for 64 years successive Israeli Governments have been illegally acquiring Palestinian territory, illegally annexing it and illegally settling it.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “Did those firing the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one?”

          Who cares. When the israelis decide to commit ethhnic cleansing, they have forfeit the right to complain about someone punching back.

      • “meanwhile, your comment completely ignored the attacks that precipitated the rocket attacks that, thus far, have killed no one.”

        The way I interpret this is, Gazans fired rockets, but it’s not a problem until it hurts someone.

        Thus my question, “Did those firing the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one?”

        It’s just a question. No one has answered it.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “The way I interpret this is, Gazans fired rockets, but it’s not a problem until it hurts someone. ”

          Even then, it’s not a problem. You people started this war on the Palestinians 150 years ago. If you don’t want your people hurt, then get the hell off of their land.

          “Thus my question, ‘Did those firing the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one?’”

          “It’s just a question. No one has answered it.”

          Who cares. Until the israelis pull back utterly to the green line and comprehend that peace doesn’t consist of you people getting to murder their children, at will, then you’ve earned everything you get.

        • Empiricon says:

          They intended to perhaps kill someone by chance, but as they are unguided, more to terrorize. There your question is answered. But ParkSlopeGuy, what about the Torah? Will you answer THAT question?

          “If men quarrel and one hits the other with a rock[et] or with his fist and he does not die…, the one who struck the blow will not be held responsible if the other gets up and walks around…”

          Unguided rockets are usually just scaring, sometimes injuring, sometimes killing. Israeli missles are usually killing and injuring and always scaring.

        • Thank you for actually answering. I appreciate that.

          They ARE intending to kill someone. I have a tough time believing that either side is firing rockets into population centers just to rattle the enemy. If it weren’t so, then bullets would be fired into the air, not into Gazan children walking on the street or into Israeli children on a schoolbus.

          If Hamas or Islamic Jihad had access to guided rockets, I certainly believe that they would take just as much life as they could. Please don’t insult anyone’s intelligence by denying this. Please.

          So, both sides aim to kill the other. How does this solve anything?

          My point is that, yes, Israel should be out of the blockading Gaza business and the West Bank entirely. After that, it just comes down to the original borders, which legally speaking are cloudy and weighed down with excuses and provactive acts on both sides. Did Israel leave Palestine with only 20% or so of what it should have had outright? Yes. Did the Arab armies want to leave the Jews with anything? Territory? Possessions? Lives? No. Sorry, but that is the truth. Not Hasbarah, it’s on the records in Egyptian government proclamations and all sorts of Middle Eastern newspapers. They wanted to strangle “the Jews” in the cradle. It also happened in 1967, and the Arab newspapers plainly call for destruction of Jews. Sure they say “Zionist” too, but plenty of “Jew”. They didn’t see a difference back then.

          There is enough bloodshed to go around. And all I see here is people saying that Israel doesn’t deserve to exist. That means violence, that means bloodshed. That means slaughter. That means more death. That means Jew-bashing. And that is what sent Greta Berlin packing. And MW helped. But the call for violence still continues right here. If you support Palestine bidding for it’s own nationhood in the UN, as I do, then Israel was also created by the same body. Tough shit if a couple of Middle Eastern nations don’t recognize it, and tough shit if Israel doesn’t want to recognize Palestine should it become a nation.

          Both Israel and the Palestinians deserve better than an endless call for more bloodshed. Two states is what I see working. Sorry Netanyahoo and all of Likud are such hateful racist bastards and won’t bend, but Hamas and Abbas don’t strike me as honest brokers either.

        • RoHa says:

          “And all I see here is people saying that Israel doesn’t deserve to exist. ”

          “Deserve” does not apply to states. But you seem to think that the creation of Israel was morally justified. It was not. The idea was to create a state for a specific ethnicity. This alone is morally dubious. But the Zionists went further. They created it in a territory which was already inhabited by people who would either automatically become (at best) second class sitizens of that state or be expelled from their homes. This was clearly immoral.

          Only people who think that Jews are more important than other people could support such a state.

        • talknic says:

          ParkSlopeSingleGuy “Thus my question, “Did those firing the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one?”

          It’s just a question. No one has answered it”

          REPEAT:
          Hamas Charter
          Article Thirty-One: “As to those who have not borne arms against you on account of religion, nor turned you out of your dwellings, Allah forbiddeth you not to deal kindly with them, and to behave justly towards them; for Allah loveth those who act justly.”

          For 64 years successive Israeli Governments, elected by Israelis, HAVE been bearing arms against non-Jews in Palestine and for 64 years successive Israeli Governments have been illegally acquiring Palestinian territory, have been illegally annexing it and have been illegally settling it.

      • All I did was ask a question. Suddenly it’s “you people” and “fail” and “hasbara”. I want the same things you want. I want Israel to stop shelling Gaza, and stop oppressing Palestinians. And stop their military brutality.

        But if asking a question provokes nothing but insults, that says something. About those who can’t stand questions.

        Now, to the question. Did the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one? It’s a simple straight up yes or no question.

        If I asked, “Do Israeli rockets intend to kill no one?” the answer would be, “Of course not”. Israel basically starts everything. No argument there.

        So, did the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one? Yes or no?

        • I want Israel to stop shelling Gaza, and stop oppressing Palestinians. And stop their military brutality.

          then kindly explain to us how this question you keep asking serves your cause? also, what gives you the impression anyone here would have more access to the answer to your oh so important question than yourself? why don’t you use your own noggin and get back to us,give us your own opinion since clearly this is important to you wrt the trajectory of the conversation. you ask a lot of questions . some people might consider this playing rhetorical games/point scoring.

          No, it was someone IMPERSONATING Norman Finkelstien. He got up there and spouted all this garbage about how he’s against BDS and pretended to be Finkelstein! Why aren’t people organizing about this?

          please excuse me in advance for not engaging you further on this thread.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “I want the same things you want.”

          No, you don’t. You seem to have no problem with israel existing. Unless it changes, I do.

          “But if asking a question provokes nothing but insults, that says something. About those who can’t stand questions.”

          No, it just means that we’ve done this “I’m just asking questions” routine before. It’s tiresome.

          “Did the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one? It’s a simple straight up yes or no question.”

          No. The rockets are inanimate objects, so they don’t have brains sufficient to form intent. So if you want a “straight up” answer, it’s no.

        • Hostage says:

          So, did the rockets from Gaza intend to kill no one? Yes or no?

          If past performance is any indicator, then those responsible for firing the mortars and rockets from Gaza have very little expectation that they will succeed in killing anyone. The conclusions of the UN fact finding mission to Gaza about the motives and impact on civilians of rocket and mortar attacks by Palestinians were: 1) that they were inherently inaccurate weapons that resulted in indiscriminate attacks; and 2) they were intended to spread terror among the civilian population of Southern Israel. To the extent that they are making the individual civilians who are not taking a direct part in hostilities the objects of acts or threats of violence, both sides in the armed conflict are guilty of serious war crimes and crimes against humanity. See the analysis beginning on page 364 link to www2.ohchr.org

          By all accounts, the Israelis engage in such practices on a much larger scale than the Palestinians. The Special Rapporteur for human rights in the Occupied Territories, Prof John Dugard, pointed that out several years ago:

          Persons responsible for committing war crimes by the firing of shells and rockets into civilian areas without any apparent military advantage should be apprehended or prosecuted. This applies to Palestinians who fire Qassam rockets into Israel; and more so to members of the IDF who have committed such crimes on a much greater scale. While individual criminal accountability is important, the responsibility of the State of Israel for the violation of peremptory norms of international law in its actions against the Palestinian people should not be overlooked.

          * A/HRC/4/17, 29 January 2007 link to unispal.un.org

          At about the same time Haaretz had reported that the IDF had fired more than 5,100 shells at Gaza in six weeks time.
          link to haaretz.com

        • My point exactly. Israel definitely targets more civillians. But Hamas and it’s offshoots commit exactly the same crimes. Sorry, but they aren’t freedom fighters and they don’t have a moral advantage. It’s just a constant round of bloodshed.

          Worse, Hamas wants to kill every Jew out there. Just read their charter.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “But Hamas and it’s offshoots commit exactly the same crimes.”

          No, they don’t. They don’t have nearly the power to commit the crimes the zios do, haven’t killed the number of civilians the zionists have and haven’t imposed an immoral and inhumane blockade on Gaza, turning into a prison camp.

          So don’t give us the equivalency bullshit.

        • Hostage says:

          Sorry, but they aren’t freedom fighters and they don’t have a moral advantage.

          That assumes that all members of Hamas fire rockets and missiles into civilian areas. But Haaretz reported today, that for the past five and a half years, Ahmed Jabari had enforced cease fires by preventing Hamas and other factions from, wait for it, firing rockets and missiles into civilian areas of Southern Israel. His record wasn’t perfect, but neither was the IDF’s when they had the same job, before the disengagement. See Israel killed its subcontractor in Gaza. link to haaretz.com

    • We made sure all the kids got into the shelter

      while palestinian parents made sure their kids got into coffins, thanks to both our governments jon. and look see, we’ve bought israel an iron dome. cry me a river jon, did the ‘fairly loud boom’ hurt your eardrums?

    • Jan says:

      Israel should call for a cease fire but it must be remembered that Israel usually is the party to break the cease fire. Just before Cast Lead Israel broke the cease fire when they murdered four Gazans.

      Lets also remember that Gaza has been under seige for years. Israel has made Gaza into the world’s largest outdoor prison. Perhaps Jon would like to see what life is like in Gaza. If he was there for only a short time he hopefully would be urging his government to end the seige, end the occupation, stop the daily killing of Palestinians, stop the destruction both in Gaza and in the West Bank.

      Perhaps then the people of Sderot will sleep better.

      • “Israel has made Gaza into the world’s largest outdoor prison. ”

        Can Palestinians leave through Egypt? Why or why not?

        • Shmuel says:

          Access policy

          Entrance of goods into Gaza:
          Kerem Shalom, connecting Gaza to Israel, is the only crossing open for the transfer of goods into and out of the Strip (apart from the tunnels) ● Israel allows all goods into the Gaza Strip except for items it defines as dual use and basic construction materials (cement, steel and gravel).

          Export of goods from Gaza:
          Since June 2007, sale of goods from Gaza to the West Bank and Israel has been prohibited ● Export of negligible amounts of agricultural produce to Europe has been permitted between the months of November and May in the context of a project funded by the Dutch government ● Since the start of 2012, 19 truckloads of goods have exited Gaza per month, which is 2% of what exited monthly before the start of the closure ● Officially, Gaza residents are permitted to export furniture and textiles abroad, however demand for these goods outside of the West Bank and Israel is low ● Starting in January, limited quantities of goods were permitted to exit Gaza for Jordan, Saudi Arabia and England, all via Israeli territory ● In March of 2012, a 13-truckload shipment of date bars was permitted to exit Gaza for the West Bank, however it was an exceptional occurrence, not an indication of a change in policy.

          Travel between Gaza and the West Bank:
          The only crossings through which people are allowed to travel to and from the Gaza Strip are Erez (to Israel) and Rafah (to Egypt) ● Israel allows passage through Erez only “in exceptional humanitarian cases, with an emphasis on urgent medical cases” ● In practice, since the start of the year, there have been more than 4,000 exits of Palestinians recorded per month at Erez, most of them businesspeople and medical patients and their companions.

          Travel from Gaza to the outside world:
          Such travel takes place mostly through Egypt ● Rafah Crossing is open six days per week for travel of people, with preference for travel given to urgent cases ● Since the start of 2012, an average of between 600-700 individuals crossed from Gaza to Egypt each day ● Through its control of the Palestinian population registry, Israel has indirect control over the issuance of Palestinian passports, which are required for travel through Rafah.

          Access to the Gaza Strip’s land, territorial waters and air space:
          Israel prevents all access to and from the Gaza Strip by sea and air ● Fishing is permitted up to three nautical miles from the shore ● Israel prevents access to a 300-1500 meter “buffer zone” along the border fence.

          Source: link to gisha.org

        • CLUELESS

          Can Palestinians leave through Egypt?

          i am quite confident the intent of all this hell israel rains down on palestinians for decades is precisely to get them to leave their land . that is what any person with a brain might consider the point of israel’s constant violent oppression against palestinians. (go look in the mirror and repeat ‘duh’ a thousand times)

          why not ask if the people of serdot can leave? or our lil jon in Beer Sheva?

          end the blockade! the people of gaza have already been driven out of their homes and villages during the beginning of this ongoing nakba, or did you forget that?

          Why or why not?

          you tell me, how much would it take for jews to retreat from palestine? how many decades or centuries of death and ethnic cleansing before you’d give up? name your price and timeline? why, or why not?

        • seafoid says:

          Why would they leave? They have nowhere else. It’s their land.

          anyway they aren’t going anwhere.

          The bots don’t understand this. It’s not “Jewish land”.

        • “Such travel takes place mostly through Egypt ● Rafah Crossing is open six days per week for travel of people, with preference for travel given to urgent cases ● Since the start of 2012, an average of between 600-700 individuals crossed from Gaza to Egypt each day ● Through its control of the Palestinian population registry, Israel has indirect control over the issuance of Palestinian passports, which are required for travel through Rafah.”

          Is Egypt blocking Palestinian travel at all?

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “Can Palestinians leave through Egypt? Why or why not?”

          They shouldn’t have to. They have a port. They had an airport. And they’d exercise full freedom of movement, were it not for a couple million zionist squatters.

        • talknic says:

          ParkSlopeSingleGuy November 12, 2012 at 6:46 am

          Is Egypt blocking Palestinian travel at all?

          No… Israel does via the 2005 crossings agreement with Egypt under which

          “Israel has indirect control over the issuance of Palestinian passports, which are required for travel through Rafah”

          You want Egypt should jeopardize the Israeli/Egypt Peace Agreement?

        • Your anger at Israel is justified. Your anger at me is not because you took my question completely out of context.

          I quoted another poster as saying, “Israel has made Gaza into the world’s largest outdoor prison. ”

          Then I asked: “Can Palestinians leave through Egypt? Why or why not?”

          That’s it. I didn’t imply or say they should leave. They live there, of course they shouldn’t have to leave if they don’t want to. Just, can they? Period.

        • @ talknic.

          I didn’t know that. What kind of indirect control?

        • talknic says:

          ParkSlopeSingleGuy November 12, 2012 at 6:59 pm

          “…. What kind of indirect control?”

          Well, for one…. “…over the issuance of Palestinian passports, which are required for travel through Rafah”

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “Your anger at me is not because you took my question completely out of context.”

          Given your comment history, you’re suspect. And rightly so.

          “That’s it. I didn’t imply or say they should leave. They live there, of course they shouldn’t have to leave if they don’t want to. Just, can they? Period.”

          Egypt is not the issue here.

        • talknic says:

          ParkSlopeSingleGuy November 11, 2012 at 10:02 pm

          “Can Palestinians leave through Egypt? Why or why not?”

          To put it simply, it would be against the Egypt/Israel Peace treaty to have citizens of a state hostile to Israel use a border crossing controlled by Israel and Egypt under the 2005 crossings agreement. Israel, as the Occupying Power, has the final say as to who, what, why and when the crossings can be used.

    • Bumblebye says:

      jon, did you tell your class full of kids that these bottle bombs that are “raining down” come from irrational ‘arabs’ who hate them for no other reason than their being Jewish? Or did you tell them the truth, that the school, their homes, and all around them was stolen from these people, who have been imprisoned in a tiny slice of land to be a source of weapons experimentation by the Israeli govt, and that everything about their lives is controlled by the various govts their own parents vote for and support? Did you tell them that there are no shelters for kids their age to go to and hide from the massive bombs and other ordnance that Israel rains down on Gaza?

    • Inanna says:

      You’re living in one of the places that many Gazans were kicked out of a few decades back. And you want Gazans to just forget where they came from, that they were kicked out by Jews who have absolutely no shame about the act of theft that made their return impossible? But I forget that zionist amnesia that never allows zionists to acknowledge that the reason their children are in danger today was because their parents committed a grave wrong to the people who used to live there. But I suppose you won’t teach that, will you?

    • Mondowise says:

      hey jon, wanna know the real solution? there would be NO bombs ever raining down in izrael if izrael 1) lifted the illegal siege and 2) complied with and abided fully with international law. in other words, izrael brings this on themselves…it’s called self-delegitimization, and izrael is the world champion of that!

    • talknic says:

      jon s November 11, 2012 at 3:51 pm

      “Rockets fired by Palestinian terrorists are raining down on Israel’s civilian population, over 100 rockets in the last day alone”

      Stats? How many actually ‘rained down’ in actual Israeli territory and how many of those actually ‘rained down’ on Israel’s civilian population ?

      “This is what I witnessed today in Beer Sheva”

      Beer Sheva was not declared as Israeli, not recognized as Israeli, has never been legally annexed to Israel. Best you get your rrrs out of territories occupied in the 1948-49 war, only a fool would purposefully stay there endangering themselves and children! There’s plenty of room in Israel.

      • Beer Sheva …. has never been legally annexed to Israel.

        jewish children don’t learn that in israel, not even from our allegedly ‘progressive’ ‘liberal’ ‘teacher’ commenter jon.

        the term ‘unilateral’ is never applied to the gov of israel, only by their adversaries, especially when they act very non-’unilaterally’ by going to the UN and seeking a bid for statehood.

        how orwellian is that?

      • pjdude says:

        exactly. the protections for civilians don’t really apply to people who intentionaly go to occupied territory

    • amigo says:

      “Rockets fired by Palestinian terrorists are raining down on Israel’s civilian population, over 100 rockets in the last day alone. Adam and Annie apparently don’t think this worth condemning, or even mentioning.” jon s

      Anymore than you do not mention the criminal acts caused by Zionist war mongers, on a daily basis for the last 65 years.

      You get no sympathy here until you people start changing your Government and vote in some leaders who want peace and not “The Greater Israel”.

      Don,t you care enough about your children to end the practice of allowing them to be Human Shields for the Zionist Goal of a Greater Israel.

    • Mooser says:

      “We are all ok, getting ready for another tense night.”

      Remember “jons” that kind of tension can produce negative effects in children, and you have nobody to blame but yourself. You are raising children to be criminals, and members of a criminal organisation which (just to add insult beyond chutzpah to injury) parasitises their religion (although people might be at this time hard pressed to know where the religion ends and the criminality begins.)
      My curse on you all, and a hope for the worst consequences for you, I offer to you, unstintingly. You b—–ds will be the death of Judaism.

      Hitler couldn’t do it, but I bet you Israelis can pull it off. And someday, remind me to show you how I really feel about it.

      • jon s says:

        Deliberately firing rockets at a civilian population is never, ever, justified. It’s a terrorist crime and should be condemned. The people of Sderot and Beer Sheva and the other towns and villages inside Israel- have the right to live in peace, like people all over the world, including the Palestinians.

        • eljay says:

          >> Deliberately firing rockets at a civilian population is never, ever, justified.

          Deliberately using terrorism and ethnic cleansing to create an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state, and deliberately using a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder to maintain that supremacist state, is never, ever justified.

        • Bumblebye says:

          Endlessly defensive of your big brother throwing rocks, while berating the little kid across the way for throwing pebbles while you play with the toys you stole from him, in the garden your parents stole from his. That’s the Israeli narrative.

        • Cliff says:

          Jon s,

          The people of S’Derot are not apolitical and S’Derot itself is not apolitical.

          This is an entirely politicized conflict. Everything is exploited and used to effectively push a narrative for the partisans.

          For example, being the troll that you are, here you are issuing an inane, insipid platitude as if it is Mondoweiss’s ‘collective’ (as in the anti-Zionist consensus) opinion that civilians in S’Derot deserved to be shelled.

          The point is that when the dust settles, colonial trolls like you will have experienced nothing comparable to the Palestinian experience in Gaza.

          Spending equal time ‘condemning’ an inequal and lopsided political reality is absurd and only serves the Zionist perogative to demand mental prostration from Israel’s political enemies.

          We are not friends. We are not equals. You are a slave-master and something to be overcome and antiquated as other forms of oppression.

          That you continue to distract and divert attention to the stubbed toes in S’Derot as opposed to the dead children in Gaza is disgusting (but to be expected from a shameless Jewish nationalist, colonist and supremacist).

        • seafoid says:

          “The people of Sderot and Beer Sheva and the other towns and villages inside Israel- have the right to live in peace, like people all over the world, including the Palestinians*”

          *Offer unfortunately does not apply anywhere in Erez Israel due to covenant with G-d. We hope that a refusal does not offend.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “Deliberately firing rockets at a civilian population is never, ever, justified”

          I’m not sure I agree. If the people in that supposed civilian population in israel repeatedly elect a government that is happy to inflict oppression, death and wonton inhumane destruction on the Palestinians — as the israeli public has done for decades — when the victim strikes back in an attempt to defend themselves, arent’ those in the israeli public who repeatedly voted for, and cheered on, their inhumane government not responsible for any response which comes their way?

          “The people of Sderot and Beer Sheva and the other towns and villages inside Israel- have the right to live in peace, like people all over the world, including the Palestinians.”

          All they need do is to get their government to accept the Arab Peace Plan, pull all israelis behind the green line, and lift the terror-seige of Gaza. If they aren’t willing to do that, then they have only themselves to blame. I feel nothing for them but anger that their racism leads them to refuse to do justice by the Palestinians. (I feel sorry for the children who are not there by their own will of course. It’s a shame they have such unfit people as parents.)

        • MHughes976 says:

          What qualifies as an attack on non-combatants? Is it an attack in which it is certain or all but certain that there will be a significant number – or at least a small number – of non-combatant casualties? Or one that takes even the slightest risk of non-combatant casualties? Or one motivated by an active preference for at least some non-combatant casualties over damage confined to combatants or to infrastructure? If we use the third criterion it is not clear that either side is guilty. If we use the middle one, both are. If we use the first one, the balance of guilt is very firmly on the side of Israel.
          I take the idea of proportionality in war to imply that you should always be less ruthless than the other side if there is any possibility at all of achieving that, and the more so the better. So I think that the Palestinian resort to rockets is wrong. I think that the Israeli use of high-tech weapons against near defenceless people is horrible.

        • Mooser says:

          “Deliberately using terrorism and ethnic cleansing to create an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state, and deliberately using a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder to maintain that supremacist state, is never, ever justified.”

          It is too, when God says it is! And he did! It’s in the Bibble! So go complain to God, you anti-Semite! What the heck do you have against Shem, anyway?

        • Deliberately firing rockets at a civilian population is never, ever, justified. It’s a terrorist crime

          yet i don’t hear you referencing the murder of Hamid Younis Abu Daqqa as a terrorist crime. in fact i don’t recall you ever referencing israel’s actions as terrorism. sliding in ‘deliberate’ with the implied caveat of civilian death as a result of israel’s actions as ‘collateral damage’ or something. it gets so old jon.

        • jon s says:

          Woody, you could use the same reasoning to justify the 9/11 attacks, the London Tube bombings and any other terrorist atrocity. Since the American public and the British public elected certain governments, and those governments did certain things… they shouldn’t complain about terrorism…

        • jon s says:

          Just to be clear: I believe in the sanctity of human life, and the equal value of all innocent lives. In my view that’s the only possible moral position, (and I’ve said so on previous comments ). I absolutely condemn all deliberate attacks on innocent civilians. On the other hand , it looks like some of the commenters here condemn attacks on Palestinian civilians, yet refuse to condemn attacks on Israeli civilians. And call me a “supremacist”, “racist”, “bigot”. Who is the racist here?
          Then there’s the casualty-counting, as if the number of casualties you suffer proves the justice of your cause. Since when? So if the Germans and Japanese suffered way more casualties in ww2 than the Americans- does that mean that their cause was just?

        • I absolutely condemn all deliberate attacks on innocent civilians. On the other hand , it looks like some of the commenters here condemn attacks on Palestinian civilians, yet refuse to condemn attacks on Israeli civilians.

          this is a post about the victims jon. there are no israeli civilian victims in this latest round of violence. we get your ‘both sides’ concern. but scroll up and see how only one side is suffering loss right now. all your lofty words do not amount to much under the circumstance. it’s just filler.

        • Cliff says:

          Jon s:

          I absolutely condemn all deliberate attacks on innocent civilians.

          [...]Then there’s the casualty-counting, as if the number of casualties you suffer proves the justice of your cause. Since when? So if the Germans and Japanese suffered way more casualties in ww2 than the Americans- does that mean that their cause was just?

          So you don’t really believe in the sanctity in life.

          You regard most – if not all – Palestinian loss of life as necessary or a consequence of war.

          If Israel didn’t MEAN TO (as in, they don’t come right out and say explicitly, we’re going to kill X civilian on Y street at around Z time) to kill a family of 12 when they fired a missile into an apartment complex – then those Palestinian lives don’t count.

          And since this is always Israel’s defense – fighting terror/’defending itself’ – you have exposed yourself for the sociopath you are.

          As to your ABSURD ANALOGY (and you’re supposed to be some kind of teacher? goes to show how ideologically Israel’s education system is) about WW2:

          The Japanese and Germans weren’t being colonized by another power.

          The thrust of the argument about Palestinian casualties has everything to do with the 1-on-1 relationship between Israel and Palestine.

          The Palestinians are the victims first and foremost because of the historical record:

          lack of representation

          marginalization – ie every foreign and local power co-opting their struggle for partisan/personal politics

          demonization and dehumanization by the Establishment

          no justice served for crimes against Palestinians since the act of treating Palestinians fairly would LEGITIMIZE THEIR STRUGGLE

          Palestinians were the demographic majority of Historic Palestine. Palestinians were driven out of their homes and land by Jewish terrorists – who were aided and abetted by Western governments who professed to act as stewards.

          Palestinians couldn’t defend themselves (historically) and were thus exploited continually and abused and murdered. Then after they suffer, they are killed once again in the minds of Westerners. Character assassination of an entire people.

          The culprit is always Zionism and fanatics like you.

          That Palestinians ultimately suffer more casualties at the hands of their COLONIAL OVERLORDS is simple a condition.

          A condition of being colonized, marginalized, exploited.

          Hence, our argument is not emphasizing the casualties. Those come later and are the result of the moral strength of the Palestinian struggle.

          It is THEIR land. You stole it. You have to destroy them in every way – permitting you can under virtually non-existent restraints.

          These characteristics do not apply to your stupid WW2 analogy. Stupid and shallow – just like your view of the conflict and of the people you continually wrong.

        • MHughes976 says:

          If the principle is that all attacks on non-combatants are wrong, and all wrong equally, then the more non-combatants you attack the more wrong you are. How can praise and blame, if equally deserved on every occasion, not mount up over several occasions?
          But the ones who are more in the wrong in the way they pursue the conflict may have had the better reason to resort to the conflict in the first place. The horrors of Hiroshima could not prove that Japan was justified in attacking Pearl Harbor.
          If we say that the victims of injustice have a greater right to attack non-combatants than the perpetrators of injustice then we deny that all attacks on non-combatants are equally wrong and perhaps assert that some are justified. That’s another debate. Meanwhile those who assert equal wrong have to live with the implication, which is accumulating wrong.

        • MHughes976 says:

          I think I should improve on or at least defend my use of the words ‘attack’ and ‘occasion’. I meant that if several people are undeservedly killed even at the same moment the moral law has been broken in respect of each individual, once for each one, rather than once for the group.

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “Woody, you could use the same reasoning to justify the 9/11 attacks, the London Tube bombings and any other terrorist atrocity.”

          Yes, you could. So what? You assume that a people should be able to vote for a government which does the types of crimes carried out by the israelis and then be inviolate. That’s a stupid, immoral position. The people who voted for these pigs, knowing they would continue to oppress and murder Palestians must bear responsibility for them or change the government. If they refuse to do so, then the people who vote these animals into office again and again and again are no more innocent than is the Mafia Don who sends a thug to kill for him. It is clear by now that the israeli government, in oppressing and murdering Palestinians by the score, are merely enacting the policy which the israeli voting public wish to see enacted and are doing so solely because that voting public granted them the power to do so. Under what moral order can they be considered “innocent”?

        • Woody Tanaka says:

          “I believe in the sanctity of human life, and the equal value of all innocent lives.”

          Bull. If you did, you wouldn’t happily live under a judeo-supremacist government on someone else’s land that you or your ancestors stole.

          “I absolutely condemn all deliberate attacks on innocent civilians.”

          BFD. Anyone can say that, so long as no one asks to deeply as to what you mean by “deliberate,” “attacks,” “innocent,” and “civilians.” Typical zionist bs.

          “it looks like some of the commenters here condemn attacks on Palestinian civilians, yet refuse to condemn attacks on Israeli civilians”

          Israel and the Palestinians are not on an even playing field. If you people want the fight to stop, then accept the Arab Peace Plan, withdraw all israelis to behind the green line and stop interefering in Palestinians affairs. But that would mean that you would have to stop oppressing them in their own land, which you appear simply incapable of doing. So the fact is that attacks on israel can be stopped by israel tomorrow, simply by doing justice by the Palestinians. Nothing the Palestinians can do will stop the decades-long, generations-long war you people are waging against them. They have the right to defend themselves by any means available to them.

          “Who is the racist here?”

          The zionist, of course.

          “Then there’s the casualty-counting, as if the number of casualties you suffer proves the justice of your cause.”

          No, the justice of the Palestinians cause and injustice of the zionist cause are manifest. The casualty counting simply demonstrates that the lies by the zionists as you fellate yourselves with — how “moral” your idf terror forces are — are simply that: Lies. Rather than remove yourselves to the green line and live in peace, you people would rather murder Palestinians by the thousands.

          You chose this and you choose it every day. You made your beds, now lie in them.

        • eljay says:

          >> Then there’s the casualty-counting, as if the number of casualties you suffer proves the justice of your cause. Since when? So if the Germans and Japanese suffered way more casualties in ww2 than the Americans- does that mean that their cause was just?

          It’s good to know that, although Jews suffered way more casualties than Palestinians during WWII, you understand that Jewish terrorism, the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands, and the creation of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” in Palestine was unjust.

        • eljay says:

          >> What the heck do you have against Shem, anyway?

          As an atheist, I have no interest in Shem.

          And as a vegetarian, I have no interest in Ham.

        • gamal says:

          you got one for Japhet? reputed father of the Holy White Nations, it was A.L. Schlosser’s search for the Japhetic language family that lead to the discovery of the “Shemitic” languages, which should of course properly, using this taxonomy, be called the “Hamo-Shemitic”.

        • eljay says:

          >> you got one for Japhet?

          Why, he’s my favourite! :-)

          Nah, I’m Japh’th kidding. ;-)

        • talknic says:

          jon s November 13, 2012 at 10:54 am

          “Deliberately firing rockets at a civilian population is never, ever, justified. It’s a terrorist crime and should be condemned”

          Indeed. However when firing a missile which cannot be guided, only the person firing it knows the actual intention. Statistics from the IDF show that more IDF targets have been hit than civilian targets link to idfblog.com

          “The people of Sderot and Beer Sheva and the other towns and villages inside Israel- have the right to live in peace, like people all over the world, including the Palestinians”

          Oh dear.

          A) Beer Sheva was not allotted to the Jewish State, was not declared as Israeli, has never been recognized as Israeli and has never been legally annexed to Israel. link to wp.me

          B) The cleansed non-Jewish population of Najd, where Sderot now stands, had the right to live in peace in 1948.

          C) Israelis, be they Jewish or non-Jewish, do not have a right to illegally settle in territories acquired by war by Israel and never legally annexed to Israel. Successive Israeli Governments have stupidly allowed and abetted Israeli civilians to endanger themselves and their children by encouraging them to settle in territories the Israeli Government acknowledged on May 22nd 1948 were “outside then State of Israel” link to wp.me

    • pjdude says:

      I’m sorry you don’t think you shouldn’t be tried to be removed from occupied territory but if you want to live and work their you take the risks. the palestinians have every right to try and regain their occupied land.

    • eljay says:

      >> Rockets fired by Palestinian terrorists are raining down on Israel’s civilian population, over 100 rockets in the last day alone. Adam and Annie apparently don’t think this worth condemning, or even mentioning.

      The rapist continues to brutally physically and sexually assault his victim, the victim desperately throws slaps and punches at him, and the hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist cries out “Did you see that?! The vicious slut is slapping and punching that poor man! Apparently no one thinks this worth condemning, or even mentioning!”

  5. The political strategy of the Israeli government depends on a stream of Palestinian terror attacks that they can use to maintain the required level of fear and hysteria among Jews, drown out media coverage of any other aspect of the situation, and prevent Obama from exerting any pressure on Israel in his second term. I view these atrocities as deliberate provocations and expect them to continue until they achieve their purpose. After that they will still continue as “retaliation.”

    Any governments sympathetic to the Palestinians might press Israel to clarify whether they now classify playing football as a hostile activity (a form of military training, perhaps), under what conditions they might be prepared to allow Palestinian kids to play football, and what their attitude is toward volleyball, basketball, dominoes, marbles and other dangerous pastimes.

    • Mooser says:

      ” I view these atrocities as deliberate provocations and expect them to continue until they achieve their purpose.”

      Don’t worry, I’m sure the “seeds of doubt” you plant will grow into a devastating harvest for Zionism.
      Once again, a very disturbing contrast between what you think they can do, and what you think you can do. I wonder why that is?

  6. Avi_G. says:

    Meanwhile, the BBC opened its newscast with a phrase that paints Israel as a restrained and reasonable state.

    How did the BBC do that?

    It’s simple, they ignored the children Israel has murdered, ignored the adults it has murdered, ignored the injured and only reported that Israel has fired WARNING shots into Syria.

    What about Israel’s attack on Gaza? Well, apparently there was no one around to hear that tree fall.

    The BBC with its global reach is a good propaganda tool (As is CNN).

  7. RE: “Why did Israel invade Gaza at dawn on Thursday with eight tanks and four bulldozers? . . . And now there are reports that Israel may escalate as Hamas joins Gaza clashes with a possible ground invasion into Gaza.” ~ Robbins & Horowitz

    ANSWER: This is Netanyahu’s way of letting (the just reelected) Obama know who is boss; lest Obama think his reelection was some kind of a mandate for him to seek peace in the Middle East! ! !
    In other words, Netanyahu is “marking his territory”*.
    Expect a lot more of the same in this period leading up to the Israeli elections in January of 2013 (while Washington D.C. is pretty much asleep/dormant/hibernating).

    * Territory (animal) - link to en.wikipedia.org

    P.S. “FREE DON” SIEGELMAN PETITION – link to change.org

    • amigo says:

      “This is Netanyahu’s way of letting (the just reelected) Obama know who is boss; lest Obama think his reelection was some kind of a mandate for him to seek peace in the Middle East! ! !”Dickerson

      If as you suggest, Israel (Niet an yahu will escalate this ,we will wait to see if Obama will call for Restraint from both sides or just condemn the Palestinians.

      We will then know how much he has changed –or not.

  8. Kathleen says:

    Israel is simply out of its mind and boundaries. When will they be taken to the Hague and tried for these human rights crimes? Horrific…

  9. piotr says:

    The fact that an attack is called a “terror attack” does not make it so.

    For all those “hundreds of rockets that rain on civilians” no civilians were hurt of late, instead, some soldiers were hurt when they were performing offensive missions. Mind you, when a rocket falls in “uninhabited area”, it is always “raining on civilians”. By the way of contrast, there are no civilians in Gaza, even chicken are terrorist to be killed by thousands. One could think that placing a mine near the border is a defensive action, but no, this is a terrorism of the worst kind because it can hurt our soldiers (unlike civilians, our soldiers are always innocent).

    It is a consistent pattern that IDF goes into overdrive much more when a soldier is hurt or taken prisoner than in the case of a civilian being hurt (especially if it is a Thai worker). Or if they are upset because, say, a drone appeared where it should not — then they kill some folks in Gaza for a good cheer. But good old USA can behave similarly, so it is OK. No civilians in Waziristan or Gaza.

  10. Cliff says:

    How did this shit get through moderation?

    ‘Pollywood’ ['Pallywood']?

    You might as well be a fucking Holocaust denier. That is the same mentality.

    To IL1948:

    Israel has no right to any of the land it polices. They invaded Gaza and got fired upon by militants. Then they escalated the fighting and managed to kill and injure civilians mostly – LIKE USUAL.

    The Palestinians, unlike the Israeli Jews who usurp them daily, are not foreign to that land. They are the indigenous population.

    Israel kills 10 times the number of children and 5 times the number of civilians in general. Israel instigates conflict with it’s draconian, oppressive policies and constant land-theft and then when the Palestinians show the SLIGHTEST BIT of resistance to Jewish supremacy and colonialism – Israel bombards their civilian infrastructure.

    The militants aren’t the ones suffering major casualties. It’s the Palestinian civilian population.

    Internal memos that have long been leaked to the public have confirmed Israel’s main objective to be punishing the CIVILIAN population to discourage it from supporting resistance groups.

    Any group that takes up arms against IsraHell will inevitably become militant.

    A privileged Zionist tool who likely lives in the West has no business lecturing the Palestinians on how to fight back.

    Take it as it is. You are the colonizer and they are the colonized. This was never going to be a pretty resistance. The history of such conflicts has demonstrated as much.

    Only a fanatic racist, bigot, ethno-religious nationalist with partisan interests would hold the Palestinians to this ignorant standard (while letting Israel butcher them left and right).

  11. mcohen says:

    lets see now

    the emir and chomsky came to visit and $400 million dollars was promised for rebuilding gaza-so what has changed in gaza since the emir,s visit
    1.obama,s surprise reelection due to sandy,s wave and the financial cost thereof
    2.the massing of sunni forces on the syrian/israeli border with assad pushed out of the way and hizb setting up a shite buffer zone to keep the war out of lebanons north
    3.the resignation of petraeus means the saudis have paid off the americans -no more fiscal cliff -to sit on the sidelines

    bibi it might be time to break out the ammo

    • Mooser says:

      “bibi it might be time to break out the ammo”

      Are you going to let that elderly man defend Judaism all by himself? What part do you plan to play in the defense of our people, “mcohen”? Oh, never mind, I can tell from your comment, you would be perfect for Chief of Intelligence! What an analysis of current events!

  12. IL1948, Regimes are responsible when they deliberately target civilians and civilian objects, and it does not matter how many rockets have been launched by militants that keep killing no persons at all inside Israel. What you call these deliberate Israeli attacks on civilians in Occupied Gaza are “war crimes” that are unlawful under the Fourth Geneva Convention.

  13. Inanna says:

    LOL. Damn those Palestinians for living in Eternal Greater Israel. They’re so ignorant. They didn’t know it was Jewish land and had to be kicked out. And now they’ve got the nerve to start whining about being locked up, under siege, and even put on a diet! We’re doing them a favor. They’ll be able to appear on the cover of Vogue with all their famine-chic! We have to surround them with barbed wire and CCTV and use them as sniper practice when they try to farm near the fence otherwise they’d get too uppity and not know their place. And who cares if they die because they can’t get medical care or if their hopes are dashed when we deny them exit visas to take up scholarships in foreign universities? They must know their place under our jackboot. And for every rocket they fire on us which makes a hole about a foot-wide, we fire back with bunker busters that knock out a whole block. Because we are New Muscular Jews and they must know their place under our jackboot.

  14. talknic says:

    IL1948 November 11, 2012 at 9:42 pm

    “Typical move out of the Pollywood play book: fire on the Jews while using children and other civilians for cover, milk as much publicity as you can from the photos of those killed when Israel responds and blame the “Zionist regime” for their “aggression””

    Typical Hasbara BS. Wherever possible,
    Conflate: replace ‘Israelis’ with ‘Jews’.
    Exaggerate: by claiming all fire from Palestinian militants comes from civilian areas while using children and other civilians for cover and that they only intend to kill ‘Jews’.
    Attempt to blame the Palestinians: for the well documented Zionist colonial aggressions and illegal acquisition of Palestinian territory

    Israel has illegally acquired over 50% of the territory slated for the Arab State, occupied Palestinian territory for 64 years, while successive Israeli Governments, none of which have ever been legally elected (under a constitution), continue to blatantly lie to Israeli citizens and the rest of the world.

    The Arabs of Palestine have responded to the Zionist colonization of Palestine. They’ve taken NOTHING of Israel’s. They seek their rights under the Law, UN Charter, Conventions, Armistice and peace Agreements, that Israel obliged itself to uphold.

  15. Jan says:

    Does the 1948 in your identity refer to the year in which Israel ethnically cleansed many thousands of Palestinians? Maybe so.

    Lets remember Mr. 1948 that not a day goes by without Israel killing people in Gaza. Not a day goes by without farmers not being able to plow their fields that lay within hundreds of yards of the wall. Not a day goes by that Israeli planes don’t fly over Gaza unleashing deafening sonic booms.

    Lets remember Mr. 1948 that it is Israel that is the aggressor. It is Israel that has broken almost every cease fire. It is Israel that fires on the Palestinians, often killing many civilians, including children who are nowhere near any place that could remotely be construed as military. It is Israel that complains about its children having to go into shelters when Palestinian kids have no shelters. I could go on and on but you get the picture I hope.

    If Israel truly wants to stop playing its war games how about them calling a cease fire and not violating that cease fire once again. How about ending the seige of Gaza and stop making the people of Gaza hate the Israelis even more than they do now. Both of you have to live in the same neighborhood. You are the big guy on the block with the bigger and far more powerful guns and other weapons such as white phosphorus, Apache helicopters, tanks etc. Time to give those damned guns and other weapons a permanent rest.

  16. seafoid says:

    Israel is a militarised state run by its Army. Its Jewish population is bombarded with propaganda that starts in kindergarten. There is no equivalent in the Western world.
    Even the US has 2 media echo chambers . Israel has one.

    Israel is run on fear and paranoia. The way to keep the F&P on the boil is to provoke Gaza, take a minor hit and then bomb the crap out of it.

    We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children,” she claimed. “We cannot forgive them for forcing us to kill their children.”

    No, that wasn’t Himmler. It was Golda Meir in 1969.

    It is a very long way from the land of milk and honey .

    Such a Jewish tragedy that it has come to this and nobody in the Jewish elite cares.

  17. amigo says:

    “I enjoy it, especially when travelling between Haifa and Tel Aviv, and there is not a single Arab to be seen.”

    - Israeli member of the MAPAI secretariat

    link to aljazeera.com

    For a glimpse into the minds of Zionist supremacists bigots.

    jon s for example.

    • Mooser says:

      “For a glimpse into the minds of Zionist supremacists bigots. jon s for example.”

      And don’t forget, by clicking on a commenter’s name above their comment, you will access their archive. It’s sort of a bulwark against ziocaine amnesia.
      So is this, from “Lawrence of Cyberia”

      Believe me, or better still, believe the British Colonial record, but the Zionists know all about mortaring and shelling civilian quarters to drive off the inhabitants.

  18. seafoid says:

    Help Israel get ready for war and donate to the Rambam undergound hospital

    link to btglobalmedia.co.il

    Gosh, the ghetto ideology can throw up so many facets

  19. Erasmus says:

    Re: ….As per usual mainstream narrative Israel acts ‘in response’….

    ONLY + ALWAYS!!!
    That goes without saying.

    After all, the IDF is the MOST MORAL ARMY, the universe has ever seen.

  20. amigo says:

    From Haaretz–Barak approves another 500 illegal squats in The West Bank.

    link to haaretz.com

  21. mcohen says:

    Seafoid. No tragedy

    The jews are fighting for there land.no different to any other nations history.smith and wesson makes all men equal.its an american saying

    • Correction. The jews are fighting to possess another people’s land to which they have no entitlement. Nukes, F16′s and a mountain of hi tech weaponry v. tinpot rockets and small arms do not make all men equal.

    • seafoid says:

      Mcohen

      Beinart says it. Maybe it will sound more convincing from a co religionist.

      link to haaretz.com

      “This is what President Obama believes: that if the American Jewish community, in tandem with the Israeli government, are dead set on driving off a cliff towards a one-state solution, it is not his job to lay down on the train tracks and sacrifice his political career in order to stop them.”
      This is the assessment of Peter Beinart, the controversial journalist and author of “The Crisis of Zionism”: “He’s not the most sentimental person. He’s a pretty cold-hearted and realistic guy.”

      Beinart warned against the current Israeli policy of maintaining the status quo, saying “I don’t see how you can look at the current trends and think you will be better off in ten years. America will be weaker, other powers that are not so sentimental will be stronger, and rejectionist in the Arab world will be emboldened.”
      “When you pay people to move into the West Bank, you are doing Hamas’ and Hezbollah’s work for it”

      It IS a Jewish tragedy. If there were prophets around now they would be warning Netanayahu about it. The third temple to fall will be Israel.

      • Mooser says:

        “It IS a Jewish tragedy.”

        Oh seafoid, give it up. What chance does an ancient collection of prayers and stories and customs have to compare with a real live Jewish State? Get real man.

      • mcohen says:

        “Beinart warned against the current Israeli policy of maintaining the status quo, saying “I don’t see how you can look at the current trends and think you will be better off in ten years”

        Current trends? 10 years

        That is only beinarts so called future-water poured on desert sand
        Who would put a rock on top of a sapling
        A blind man
        Praying for a blessing

    • talknic says:

      mcohen November 12, 2012 at 6:43 am

      “The jews are fighting for there land”

      How odd. No Jewish Israeli land has ever been taken. UNSC resolutions call for peace in Palestine, not Israel. The wars have been in Palestine and the territory of Israel’s neighbouring states. There has never been a war in Israel.

  22. No tragedy The jews are fighting for there land

    by murdering children playing in gaza. thanks for your honesty.

    • MHughes976 says:

      Not ‘the Jews’ or all Jewish people: some of them. A majority no doubt, but amid much dissent – and of course, as annie says, at a horrible price.

    • mcohen says:

      annie

      i do not agree with murdering innocent children even child soldiers like those used in wars in africa who have no choice but are forced to fight by adults-
      but blowing up the givati company commander on the 28/10 /12 was not a good idea because that was part of the bigger game being played in the middle east
      a knight taken by a rook

      so the pawns suffer-both arab and jew

      so we will have to settle for gazans firing “rockets landing in open fields”and israel bombing “empty buildings”

      and today there were more ——- in gaza, reported the——newspaper

      next move could be white queen traps knight
      pawn takes knight

      • mcohen, i am not a chess player so i cannot fully appreciate your references. but let’s address the givati company commander who lost an arm:

        link to haaretz.com

        Over the past few weeks, there have been a number of incidents of explosive devices being planted along the border fence, particularly in the Nirim area. Three weeks ago a military vehicle was damaged from one such explosion, which seriously wounded Capt. Ziv Shilon, who lost an arm. Three more soldiers were wounded by a charge laid along the border road last Tuesday, and their armored personnel carrier was badly damaged.

        Following these incidents, Gaza Division Commander Brig. Gen. Mickey Edelstein began to operate west of the border fence to locate these explosive devices and blow them up in controlled explosions. IDF forces operated several times last week in the area of Kibbutz Nirim to find such explosives. On Thursday evening, a few hours after several explosive devices, some very powerful, had been blown up, terrorists set off the booby-trapped tunnel while soldiers were working to repair the fence that had been breached as a result of the earlier IDF activity.

        they shouldn’t be breaching the fence. not when they are murdering gazans for even approaching the border, like they did last monday, when they killed:

        link to maannews.net

        On Tuesday, three Israeli soldiers were wounded by an explosive device in the southern Gaza Strip, Israel’s army said.

        A day earlier, Israeli soldiers shot and killed a 20-year-old Palestinian man who approached a fence near Gaza’s border with Israel, medics said.

        they should stay away from that border if they expect the same from palestinians. approach the fence and you die, isn’t that israel’s message? is there a double standard going on here? how many gazan lives were lost near that border on palestinian land before your “rook” lost an arm?

      • Woody Tanaka says:

        “so the pawns suffer-both arab and jew”

        If only. The only wish I wish as fervently as I wish that no one would suffer is that the israeli Jews would suffer as much as they make the Arabs suffer; then perhaps they would persuade the craven bastards they’ve elected into office to accept the Arab Peace Plan. But the Jews don’t suffer that much, so the crimes of their state continue.

        • i noticed from this morning’s report that while there had been no casualties amongst israelis 20 people had been hospitalized for shock. i suppose if we added ‘shock’ to the list of gazan victims we would have a dramatic increase in the gap between the ratio of victims between ‘both sides’. but the ‘both sides’ narrative seems to be a hasbara main staple and i don’t see that ending anytime soon.

          the very concept of ‘pawns’ from both sides is a drastic bit of propaganda. in a situation with an oppressed and an oppressor there simply are no pawns of equal value, there is no playing board of equal value. the concept of this as a chess game is an illusion perpetuated by the oppressor for the purpose of presenting a view of equal value. when we give palestine 3 billion a year to support their warriors then we can talk about pawns rooks and knights.

        • mcohen says:

          Annie

          Besides the source that is listed above the pnn what other credible reports do you have of the deaths and casualties listed in the headline of this thread

        • link to nytimes.com

          you want more sources, google their names and check out the anne paq/funeral link at the beginning of the thread.

      • blowing up the givati company commander on the 28/10 /12 was not a good idea

        you have the date wrong. it was tuesday the 23rd, the day after this:

        link to maannews.net

        Airstrikes on north Gaza kill at least 2
        Published Monday 22/10/2012 (updated) 25/10/2012 15:21

        Palestinians carry the body of militant Abed Rahman Abu Jalalah
        during his funeral in the town of Beit Lahiya, in the northern Gaza
        Strip October 22, 2012. (Reuters/Mohammed Salem)
        GAZA CITY (Ma’an) — Israeli airstrikes on the northern Gaza Strip killed at least two Palestinians on Monday morning, Gaza officials said.

        They said militants fired mortar bombs at Israeli troops spotted inside Gaza’s boundary fence, drawing airstrikes against a Hamas training camp and other targets.

        The first strike on Jabalia injured four people, and 26-year-old Abdul-Rahman Darwish Abu Jalalah later died of his wounds, health ministry spokesman Ashraf al-Qidra said. Hamas’ military wing claimed him as a fighter.

        Later, warplanes targeted the nearby town of Beit Hanoun, killing 26-year-old Yasser Juma Tarabin and wounding another. Islamic Jihad said Tarabin was a fighter affiliated to their brigades.

        Israel’s army said the first strike “targeted a rocket launching squad … in response to mortar shell fire at a routine (army) patrol in the area.”

        A military spokeswoman confirmed a second strike.

        clearly, ‘routine’ is hasbara excuse narrative to justify illegal israeli incursions into gaza. the chance israel would put up with gazans crossing the border for ‘routine’ patrols without firing and killing someone is practically nil.

        • and this:
          link to mondoweiss.net

          Israeli forces arrest 4 Gaza fishermen
          GAZA CITY (Ma‘an) 22 Oct — Israeli forces arrested four Gaza fishermen on Monday and took them to an unknown destination, Gaza’s ministry of agriculture said. Ramez Izzat Baker, Khamis Subhi Baker, Bayan Subhi Baker, and Omar Muhammad Baker were detained while fishing off the coast near Gaza City … Eid Mohssen Eid Baker, who witnessed Monday’s attack. told PCHR that an Israeli gunboat had shot randomly at his cousin’s boat. “One of the soldiers ordered us to stop, but we kept sailing south in escape of the open fire. My cousin Ramez Baker’s boat suddenly stopped after a bullet hit the boat engine, and the Israeli gunboat approached it, to a distance of nearly 30 meters. “I saw the four fishermen, Ramez, Arafat, Khamis and his son Bayan, take off their clothes [required by the Israelis], jump in the water amidst the continuous shooting, and swim towards the Israeli gunboat. The soldiers confiscated the fishermen’s boat and transported it towards the northern side,” he said.
          link to http://www.maannews.net

  23. douglasreed says:

    Is it not extraordinary how whenever the heavily-armed and US-funded Israeli army carries out a strike against a country that only possesses a poorly armed and poorly trained military, or often one that does not even even have any F16s, armored divisions or nuclear warheads, i.e. Gaza, Lebanon, Syria, Sudan, Iraq, Egypt or a small unarmed boat on the high seas – it immediately proclaims an amazing victory against ‘heavy odds’ or ‘a direct hit’ or another act of extreme bravery by the crack commandos …

    We never hear a similar message from the American, British or NATO armies in a real war zone.

    • asherpat says:

      @dourglassreed,

      do you really think that Israel would attack Gaza if there would not have been attacks from Gaza on Israel?

      • Jan says:

        Israel is well known for breaking every cease fire. Think back to 1982 when Sharon was itching for a war against Lebanon. The PLO had stuck to their side of the truce when there was an attempted attack on the life of Israel’s envoy to the UK. The attack was not done by the PLO but that was all that the war criminal Ariel Sharon needed. He unleashed his dirty dogs of war and killed close to 19,000 Lebanese and Palestinians. Israeli war planes bombed hospitals, apartment houses, homes and even orphanages. They had no shame.

        They IDF allowed the fascist Falange to enter the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla where under Israeli spot lights they proceeded to rape and murder at least, if not more, 1000 Palestinian men, women and children. Read Robert Fisk who went with other journalists into the camps and found evidence of Israeli complicity in this war crime.

        Israel went on to occupy Southern Lebanon and it was only because of Hezbollah, a resistance group similar to Hamas, that Israel withdrew dragging its dirty tail behind it.

        Am I angry over what Israel is doing to the imprisoned population of Gaza, the majority of whom are under 15? Damn right I am.

        Futhermore it sickens me when from the White House we hear the banal words “Israel has the right to defend itself.”

        Well, I think that the Palestinians who were driven from their homes in 1948 and again in 1967 have an absolute right to defend themselves from the onging depredations of the Israeli military and the Israeli government.

      • talknic says:

        asherpat November 14, 2012 at 6:33 pm

        “do you really think that Israel would attack Gaza if there would not have been attacks from Gaza on Israel?”

        Are you attempting humor?

        For 64 years, Israel has been at war, taking more and more territory “outside the State of Israel” … In the months preceding May 15th 1948 Jewish forces were busy in territory slated for the Arab State, cleansing non-Jews. On May 15th when the Israel declaration came into effect, the civil war that had preceded the declaration, became a war waged by the State of Israel on the non-self-governing Arab territories. The neighbouring Regional Powers had a right under the UN Charter Chapt XI to intervene. They have a right now to intervene.

  24. Jan says:

    Israeli academic Gershon Baskin posted this just a couple of hours ago on Facebook:

    “The Israeli decision to kill Ahmed Jaabri was total insanity. Jaabri was behind enforcing all of the recent ceasefire agreements. He sent his troops out to stop the rockets and was prepared to reach a long term ceasefire. Jaabri was also the main interlocutor of the Egyptian intelligence service in reaching ceasefire understandings. Now who are they supposed to talk to? Who can expect the Egyptians to continue to mitigate our relationship with Gaza? Now the government and people of Israel will face a massive barrage of rockets and they bought the entrance card to Cast Lead II. God help us all. This is what I will say on London Kirschenbaum on Zissels television.”