‘Do you know any Arabs in London?’ Israeli airport authorities grill British photojournalist before kicking him out

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Detail of the Apartheid Wall, Bethlehem Palestine April 30, 2011 (photo: Mark Kerrison)

“I don’t pretend to know night-time from day, but if I were your God I’d have something to say” (Ben Gurion Prison, 14th March 2013)
 
These words, scrawled inconspicuously on the wall just above my head amid a plethora of other graffiti, drew my eyes as I sat on a dirty, broken bunk in an Israeli ‘facility’.
 
Or at least that’s what the Israelis call it. In my lexicon, rows of cells with no door handles on the inside and double bars across the windows are found in a ‘prison’.
 
That’s where I found myself on 13th March, six hours after arriving at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion airport at the start of a photographic holiday.
 
Initially, things were as I would have expected on arrival in Israel.
 

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Mark Kerrison

At about 4 pm, I waited patiently in a queue to have my passport checked with a colleague from work that I had met by chance on the plane.
 
I stepped forward and was asked why I was visiting Israel and whether I’d visited before. I told the immigration official that I was visiting as a tourist and that I’d visited before as a child and in 2011.
 
This answer sufficed for him to tell me that my passport was being retained and that I should direct myself to a room in a quiet corner of the immigration hall for “a few more questions.”
 
I was surprised – I’ve travelled extensively without problems – but aware that security at Ben Gurion airport is quite unlike anywhere else in the world. I was also uncomfortable at having surrendered my passport, aware that this ran contrary to UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office advice because of the risk of passport cloning by Israeli authorities.
 
At first sight, the room indicated by the immigration official wasn’t too unwelcoming; generic airport seating and a drinks vending machine for those who travel with currency. Every seat was taken, though. I wasn’t sure if that was reassuring or not.
 
However: a young German female and I were the only Caucasians present. Travellers to Israel were being selected for interrogation based on their racial or ethnic profile. This appalled me and I set about counting. During the six hours that I was to spend in and around that room, 25 travelers were similarly detained; only three of us were Caucasian.
 
My turn for interrogation came at 6:40 pm, 2½ hours after my arrival.
 
“Mark, come.”
 
I followed a young Israeli woman in uniform into a small office. We sat at either side of a desk and a computer. On my left sat two casually dressed males. I was later informed that they were officers from Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security service.
 
“Why did you come to Israel?” the woman started aggressively.
 
“For a much-needed holiday, a photographic holiday,” I replied calmly.
 
She failed to understand and asked me to speak up.
 
I repeated my answer, just as loudly and clearly as I had the first time.
 
It was already clear that no pleasantries were on offer in this office.
 
“Where are you going in Israel?”
 
I told her that I would first spend two or three days in and around Jerusalem, visiting the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to pray for my brother (I explained why) and traveling to Bethlehem and Masada, before moving on to Tel Aviv, Haifa, Galilee and, I hoped, Eilat.
 
I was, of course, faced with the usual conundrum for anyone arriving in Israel wishing to include the West Bank as part of an itinerary. Mention any West Bank destination other than Bethlehem and you will be refused admission to Israel; fail to mention it and have it suspected and you will be refused admission anyway. I did also intend to visit the West Bank.
 
“Who do you know in Israel?”
 
“No one.”
 
“How long in Israel?”
 
“About three weeks.”
 
“What? Three weeks in Israel? Three weeks is too long! No one comes for three weeks to Israel!”
 
I considered pointing out that the Israeli Ministry of Tourism might see things differently, but thought better of it.
 
Instead, I repeated that I had three weeks in which to see as much of the country as I could.
 
One of the two men intervened.
 
“And the Gaza Strip? And the West Bank?”
 
“I am not visiting the Gaza Strip or the West Bank,” I said firmly but politely.
 
I felt as though I had been catapulted into a scene from a cheesy spy thriller, but although uncomfortable at being forced to state only a partial truth, I remained completely calm.
 
“Where are you staying in Israel?” the woman resumed.
 
I told her the name of my guesthouse, that I had booked two nights and handed her a copy of the reservation.
 
“Why only two nights?”
 
I explained that I only ever book one or two nights when I travel, so that I can plan my holiday on the fly and stay longer in places that I like.
 
“Where have you traveled this year?”
 
“Paris, Prague, Dublin and Turkey.”
 
“How can you travel so much? It’s not possible that you can travel so much.”
 
I explained that some of my trips were for work rather than for pleasure.
 
More intrusive questions followed, about my family, my marriage and family holidays.  Almost every question was followed by an inevitable “Are you sure?”
 
One of the men stood up.
 
“What about the Gaza Strip? When did you go to the Gaza Strip?”
 
“I have never been to the Gaza Strip,” I replied calmly.
 
At times, their interrogation, although intimidating, bordered on caricature.
 
The woman resumed.
 
“Is it your first time in Israel?”
 
“No. I came with my school when I was 13 and again in 2011.”
 
“Why did you come with your school? Are you a teacher?”
 
“No, I was 13!”
 
“What’s your job?”
 
I told her that I work in consumer electronics; I didn’t tell her that I also freelance as a photojournalist.
 
“When was the second time?”
 
“2011.”
 
“How long in Israel?”
 
“Two weeks.”
 
“Where did you go?”
 
“Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Bethlehem.”
 
“What? In two weeks? Only Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Bethlehem? That’s not possible!” she mocked.
 
I explained that it would easily have been possible to spend the entire two weeks in Jerusalem, so much was there to see in and around the city. I added that this was the main reason for me returning to see more of Israel.
 
“No one comes to Israel more than once!”
 
Another strapline for the Israeli Ministry of Tourism.
 
Other questions followed in quick succession.
 
I told her the name of the convent where I had stayed and that I had spoken to people in restaurants and shops as well as to other guests in the convent.
 
I reeled off a couple of random first names from memory and told her that we had spoken about Jerusalem’s religious and other tourist sites.
 
I recall thinking that it was a bit like conversing with a persistent toddler.
 
One of the men intervened.
 
“So you didn’t meet any Palestinians?”
 
“No, I didn’t,” I said clearly, gathering that there must be some kind of prohibition on speaking to Palestinians.
 
“Are you sure?”
 
“Very sure.”
 
“So if I take your phone I won’t find the names of any Palestinians?”
 
“No, you won’t.”
 
“It’s better if you tell me now because if I find them you’ll be in big trouble.”
 
I repeated my answer.
 
“Do you know any Arabs in London?”
 
“I have friends from many different countries owing to my work and studies.”
 
“What about Mohamed?”
 
“Mohamed? Who’s he?” I laughed.
 
He asked for my phone.
 
For an instant, I considered refusing – this seemed beyond the bounds of reasonable questioning – but any refusal would have been pointless.
 
He seemed satisfied with a quick check. I later discovered that he had used £5.00 of my PAYG credit without asking permission.
 
The woman asked me to write down my name, home phone number, mobile phone number, home e-mail address, work e-mail address, father’s name and grandfather’s name.
 
One of the men asked if I had any other e-mail addresses.
 
“No.”
 
“A facebook account?”
 
I had read an article suggesting that Israeli immigration officers ask travelers to open e-mail and facebook accounts for them to trawl, so I opted to say that I hadn’t.
 
This was a mistake.
 
He showed me on-screen an old e-mail address of mine entered in the sign-in page of a facebook account.
 
I started to explain, entirely truthfully, that I’d not actively used the e-mail address for years and that the facebook account has always remained entirely blank, but he cut me short and yelled at me from close proximity.
 
“You’ve been lying since the moment you walked through the door! Everything you’ve said has been a lie! Either you start to tell me the truth or you’re going to find yourself in serious trouble. I can make things very difficult for you. If I refuse you entry to Israel, you will have problems in many other countries. You will have to answer lots of questions about why you were refused entry to Israel. Now, tell me about your time in the West Bank. Who did you meet? Which Palestinians did you meet? Which Israelis did you meet? I want names. NOW!”
 
I repeated, quite simply, that I had not visited the West Bank.
 
“GET OUT! GET OUT!” he snarled at me.
 
It was about 7:25 pm. I shrugged my shoulders and walked outside.
 
He returned ten minutes later with my phone.
 
“You will not be entering Israel tonight.”
 
I sensed that there would be no tomorrow.  
 
A shocked fellow detainee asked him why but he walked away.
 
On the face of it, I had been denied entry because I had forgotten about an e-mail account unused for years and a never-used facebook account; neither contained a single reference to either Israel or Palestine.
 
At 7.55 pm, an immigration officer led me to the baggage handling area.
 
The left-luggage attendant joked that he had completed a claim form because my rucksack had remained unclaimed for so long.
 
I guess he must repeat the same joke every day.
 
I was then led to a large room, closed to prying eyes. Everything was white. It contained a huge x-ray machine and a long row of tables.
 
I said that I didn’t have a laptop but that, as a photojournalist, I was carrying a lot of photographic equipment. This was the first time I mentioned that I also freelance as a photojournalist.
 
My luggage was x-rayed.
 
Two intelligence officers started to rifle through my rucksack with an electronic device as I was gestured into a small room by the immigration officer.
 
“Empty your pockets.”
 
I pulled out some British coins and my press credentials. My passport still hadn’t been returned to me.
 
I was then asked to remove my shirt and shoes and to unbutton my fly. I fixed the official in the eye as if to question this and he indicated that I should proceed.
 
I’d never been subjected to a strip search before.
 
Not in Soviet Russia. Not in Albania. Not in Latin America. Not in the US.
 
Only in Israel.
 
He patted me from head to toe and then swabbed me with an electronic device, including around my genitals.
 
An unwelcome invasion of privacy for me as a Caucasian male, I pondered how degrading and invasive this process must be for other travelers.
 
The contents of my rucksack and hand luggage had now been security-checked and were strewn all over the tables. I was asked to repack. Just the paraphernalia of modern life required by any backpacker on holiday.
 
Minus my bottle of water – they’d thrown that away.
 
At 8.25 pm, I was escorted back to the original room in the immigration hall. There were free seats now. An immigration official sat near to me.
 
A Muslim woman waiting when I arrived just after 4 pm was still there. There was no change in the ethnic profile of those waiting.
 
I had had no access to a toilet for over 5 hours and no food for 12 hours.
 
I phoned my guesthouse, knowing at least that I would no longer need accommodation that evening. I told them that I had been detained by Israeli immigration, that I did not know why and that I may or may not be allowed through the following day.
 
When I finished the call, the immigration official informed me that I was being deported. He apologised that I had not been told before and pointed out that he was not in charge. I asked him whether he knew why I was being deported; he said he didn’t.
 
At 9:20 pm, a female intelligence officer entered the room.
 
She also informed me that I was being deported and said that my flight to the UK would leave at 5 pm the following day.
 
I again asked why I was being deported.
 
“Security.”
 
“But what’s the reason?”
 
“Security. That’s all I can say.”
 
At 9:55 pm, two men told me that they were taking me to a ‘facility’ where I could eat and sleep.
 
One smiled as he read a form bearing my photo given to him by an intelligence officer.
 
“What did you do? Did you throw stones at the soldiers?”
 
I explained that I had just arrived in Israel on holiday and asked him if the form explained why I had been denied entry.
 
He said that my refusal came not from Israeli immigration but from the Shabak. I later learned that Shabak is another name for Shin Bet, Israel’s internal security service.
 
I was transported to a prison in the back of an armored prison van, a journey of around 10 minutes from the airport.
 
Once there, a warder told me to leave my baggage downstairs and to take only my money and any jewellery. I could not take my stomach medication.
 
He asked my nationality and why I was there. I told him that I was from the UK and that I had come to Israel on holiday.
 
He offered me food – which I refused in protest at my unjust detention – and then apologized as he showed me to my cell, adding before he slammed the door that I should bang on the door if I needed anything.
 
It was 10:20 pm, over six hours after my arrival.
 
The lights were off, but I could see that the cell contained three double-bunks. Two were half-occupied and the occupants were trying to sleep.
 
I sat on the free bunk.
 
The cell stank of urine. There were double bars on the window. The door had a peephole but no handle on the inside. I could see a toilet and a basin. The walls of the cell and the underside of the bunk above me were covered in graffiti.
 
I used the toilet – my first opportunity for seven hours – and settled down to meditate on my bunk. I knew I wouldn’t sleep so I didn’t even try. I later discovered that I had been bitten by bed bugs merely from sitting on the filthy bunk.
 
As the night wore on, I could periodically hear other inmates shouting and banging on the doors of cells in the same corridor. Some of the voices were female. The only response I ever heard was an unsympathetic “Go to sleep!”
 
Two more men entered at around 7 am. They talked to one of the other occupants in Russian.
 
As daylight started to penetrate the barred window, I could see more of my surroundings. My bunk was broken in several places and there were bare electric wires sprouting from the wall right next to my head.
 
I began to read the graffiti. Those detained here had come from all over the globe. There were so many different languages represented.
 
I was shocked to think that all these people were being deported.
 
Much, if not all, of the text was harsh in its condemnation of Israel and its human rights record. I noticed a number of slogans calling for a ‘Free Palestine’. The few anti-Semitic comments and swastikas sickened me.
 
My eyes were most drawn, though, to some words in small, inconspicuous lettering immediately above my head: “I don’t pretend to know night-time from day, but if I were your God I’d have something to say.”
 
I found these words comforting and I memorized them.
 
I refused breakfast and lunch and tried to explain to my cellmates – only one of whom spoke a few words of English – that my refusal was in protest at my unjust detention. I should not, in any case, eat without my stomach medication.
 
I was sharing the cell with a Thai and three Moldovans. The Thai was being deported after four years in Israel and one of the Moldovans after ten years.
 
At 10 am, a cleaner arrived and we were ushered out of the cell. The Thai and one of the Moldovans left for their deportation flights. I joined the other two Moldovans for a quick cigarette outside, amusing myself with the thought that this was the only sun I would see in Israel. They also left an hour or so later.
 
At 4:10 pm, 24 hours after my arrival, a warder informed me that I was being taken to catch the 5 pm flight to London. He granted me access to my stomach medication. I had difficulty swallowing it without water. I hadn’t drunk any water for well over 24 hours.
 
I sat alone in a sealed compartment in the middle of an armored truck. Two immigration officers sat in the front, one carrying handcuffs.
 
We passed through a number of security checkpoints.
 
At one, the door to my compartment opened.
 
“Hello,” said a very young Israeli woman.
 
I returned her greeting with a smile and had a strong sense that she found it difficult to imagine that I had done anything wrong.
 
I hadn’t.
 
Maybe she had that feeling every time she saw someone pass in one of those armored trucks on their way to a deportation flight.
 
At 5:45 pm, I was escorted across the tarmac towards my flight, the first passenger to board.
 
One of the immigration officers explained that my passport would be handed to the captain, only to be returned to me when we reached the UK.
 
I was greeted by the Easyjet crew at the top of the mobile stairway. The captain handed me my passport and smiled.
 
“You’re on British soil now,” he said.
 
I still don’t know for sure why I was denied entry to Israel.
 
I imagine, though, that Israeli intelligence Google-searched my human rights photojournalism in advance of my arrival and decided not to interrogate me around that as to deny access to a holidaying photographer is less likely to attract criticism than to deny access to a photojournalist.
 
Until such time as our Governments apply genuine pressure on Israel to permit travelers to openly state on arrival that they wish to visit the West Bank without risk of being denied entry, I fear that other people, too, may find themselves in the same distasteful predicament.

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Palestinian stallholder April 24, 2011 (photo: Mark Kerrison)

Some of Kerrison’s work can be seen here.

About Mark Kerrison

Mark Kerrison is a freelance photojournalist.
Posted in Activism, Israel/Palestine, Israeli Government, Nakba, Occupation, On the ground reports | Tagged

{ 0 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. Cliff says:

    I couldn’t get through to even half of this article.

    Imagining these stupid questions coming out of the mouth of Israeli thugs with their disgusting sense of entitlement is nauseating.

    Why anyone would subject themselves to this kind of absurd interrogation in a surveillance State is beyond me (unless of course you’re a Zionist Jew).

    What a **** hole.

    • Sumud says:

      Why anyone would subject themselves to this kind of absurd interrogation in a surveillance State is beyond me (unless of course you’re a Zionist Jew).

      ??

      Do you mean – you don’t know why anyone would go to Israel and occupied Palestine?

      • Cliff says:

        Sumud,

        I have no patience for dealing with fools. Especially people with a CULT mentality.

        People who as individuals are nothing, but who latch on to an ideology (Zionism), such as militant, ethnocentric nationalism – and become empowered in their depravity.

        Their nationalism informs their depravity and the way they see others and ‘perceived threats’ reinforces their nationalism.

        It’s just this ****ing stupid vicious cycle. And there’s no helping those people. They will be stupid forever. It’s like slap-stick funny.

        When I read OlegR’s comments or Dim Duck’s – it’s like watching Brendan Fraser’s character in this small clip from Bedazzled:

        link to youtube.com

        In short, I’m too sarcastic for Zionist bottom-feeders.

        And keeping that all in mind, I cannot fathom why anyone would go through that kafkaesque treatment.

        • I cannot fathom why anyone would go through that kafkaesque treatment

          At least in the case of the author, so that he can write about it and let the world know about the hell-hole that is Israel and inflame passions among the populace of his country to the point where they apply pressure on their government to cease all support of the zionist entity.

          Seems like a good reason to me.

        • Typed a little too fast. I meant to add “I presume” to my attribution of motivation to the author.

        • Sumud says:

          And keeping that all in mind, I cannot fathom why anyone would go through that kafkaesque treatment.

          The goal is not to go to Israel, it is to go to Palestine.

          If you want to go but stop yourself because of these zionist thugs – they have won.

        • seafoid says:

          I really want to go to Israel again and see it in the flesh.
          Just Tel Aviv. And talk to people. All the stuff I have been reading – it sounds like a real madhouse.

          It’s a pity there isn’t some kind of Mondo study tour of the place actually.

          Because it won’t be around forever.

        • lysias says:

          I recently watched a DVD of Pépé le Moko, the 1937 Jean Gabin movie. It’s got great location shots of the old Algiers of French Algeria, Alger la blanche, especially of the harbor.

          You can visit vanished societies by watching old movies.

        • jon s says:

          Seafoid,
          When you do come here, I’m pretty sure that you’ll find that it’s not at all like the “madhouse” you’ve been reading about. Tel Aviv especially: lots to see and do, a great place to visit (though the humidity in summer is murder…).
          As to not being around forever – “forever” is a big word, but , believe me, Israel isn’t going anywhere.
          Actually, re-reading your comment, maybe you mean that Mondo won’t be around forever…

        • seafoid says:

          I lived on the other side of the wall . I didn’t know much about the bot side.
          But the last few years have been a real education. I have been reading Ha’aretz for 13 years and Israel is now a madhouse.

          It is not rational in Israel today to support peace.

          Nuts.

        • ryan-o says:

          Cliff, I agree with you. Imagining those thugs asking those questions was tough for me too. Border security interviews are painful as it is coming from people who intentionally (because it’s part of the job) are cold. Throw Zionist thugs into those positions asking those kinds of questions and no thanks. My temper and emotions would probably result in being beaten and detained. Knowing the US embassy and government itself back home will do absolutely nothing due to the politics and I can cross Israel off the list of places I want to see before I die. Shame because I would like to visit Jerusalem.

          I also don’t have any patience when dealing with cult mentality. Unfortunately everything is a cult. The cult of facebook and twitter, the hive-mind of liberalism and conservatism. Individualism doesn’t exist and if it does somebody will tell you you’re greedy for being one.

        • susan1 says:

          Seafoid, if you need more stuff to read about Tel Aviv , have you heard of a British writer named Linda Grant ? She wrote a fantastic book ” When I lived In Modern Times “.=====http://www.lindagrant.co.uk/books/when-i-lived-in-modern-times/=====also for another take on Tel Aviv , how about this piece from Lebanese Arab writer Bilal Khbeiz.=====http://www.karlsharro.co.uk/Tel-Aviv.htmhttp://www.artterritories.net/?page_id=366l =====Bilal Khbeiz is a poet, essayist, and journalist. He regularly contributes to the newspapers Beirut Al Masa’a and Al Nahar, and to Future Television Beirut, among other publications and networks. Published poetry and books on cultural theory include Fi Annal jassad Khatia’ Wa Khalas (That the Body is Sin and Deliverance), Globalisation and the Manufacture of Transient Events, The Enduring Image and the Vanishing World, and Tragedy in the Moment of Vision.

        • W.Jones says:

          Seafoid,

          What about Max Blumenthal’s video interviews?
          I am curious how representative they are of the population. Unfortunately, based on surveys of young people, I think it is not unrepresentative.

          Particularly striking for me was the huge gap in attitudes when it came to tolerating Christianity between elderly generations (relatively tolerant) to new generations (30% saying Russian immigrants should not be allowed to practice it). Those attitudes naturally carry over into attitudes about other Middle Eastern peoples.

          It is still partly curious to me how it turned out that way. I heard that relatives of prison guards note that their personalities seriously change. I also heard vaguely about enlightened northerners who wanted to operate antebellum work relationships in an enlightened way, but ultimately ended up acting similarly to their southern neighbors. Chomsky joined one of the most leftist, binational-oriented groups, and he writes that his kibbutz expelled the neighboring friendly village because it felt it “had to.”

          Haja Meier from IJAN claimed people’s personalities he knew who immigrated there seriously changed. One guess is that it’s like a math formula. You plug some numbers in and a different result comes out than the numbers you put in.

          In this case you take masses of people who actually made up some of the more liberal wings of their larger societies, put them into a new societal project of this type with given conditions, and several generations later these are the attitudes that come out. I suppose it’s sad in a way. On top of that, do they realize why this is happening?

        • seafoid says:

          Jon

          I have a conf call with the TA office twice a month. I write down all the hate speech that pops out in a notebook.

          Beit Shemesh Anglos. They do their mitzvot and the Palestinians do not exist. You can spin it all you like but Israel is a very disturbed polity.

          Absolutely fascinating though.

    • Eva Smagacz says:

      Cant you see that this is the whole point of the exercise? To make likely supporters of human rights for Palestinians think twice about coming? Israel would like to put their Palestinian population in one giant Communication Management Unit.

      • seafoid says:

        They are far worse with Palestinians

        link to youtube.com
        It is all about ensuring nobody deemed a threat to their dud narrative goes back

        But they can’t control the internet and that is their Achilles heel.

      • W.Jones says:

        Eva,

        Since you are there, can you give us an idea of how much Blumenthal’s video interviews of “Racism in Tel Aviv” reflect what people are normally like there?

        Seafoid says he wants to see what they are like, as he says:
        “Just Tel Aviv. And talk to people. All the stuff I have been reading – it sounds like a real madhouse.”
        What do you think? We read enough intolerant comments on the web from the State’s supporters, so perhaps that (mis)represents them?

    • Blownaway says:

      “Why anyone would subject themselves to this kind of absurd interrogation in a surveillance State is beyond me”
      Thats exactly what they are hoping for. The reality is that Arab Americans have been subjected to this kind of humiliation for decades when they try to go home to visit family or relatives. Even if they are not going to Israel but one of the bantustans. Everything from super intrusive searches of body cavities to x-ray of shoes to picking up every piece of clothing and dropping it on the floor as part of it search and then of course the interrogations…all designed to make it so hard to go back that you will want to give up. But no matter how hard they try they cant and by subjecting non Arabs to this treatment it is only highlighting the apartheid nature of this rouge country.

      • Thats exactly what they are hoping for. The reality is that Arab Americans have been subjected to this kind of humiliation for decades when they try to go home to visit family or relatives.

        i know. and anyone who goes there in support endures this. but that is the price to be paid at this time. sumud. palestine will be free someday.

  2. MK_Ultra says:

    “I don’t pretend to know night-time from day, but if I were your God I’d have something to say” (Ben Gurion Prison, 14th March 2013)

    LOL! This echoes what I usually tell the ChristoZioFascists that if their god(s) can see what I see, they’re all going straight to hell for all eternity.

    I stepped forward and was asked why I was visiting Israel and whether I’d visited before. I told the immigration official that I was visiting as a tourist and that I’d visited before as a child and in 2011.

    Well, mate, perhaps you can be excused before you were just child the first time and didn’t know better. Otherwise, I’d say that you wound was self-inflicted. Hopefully, that’s the last time you ever go there. As a Brit, I’m sure you have access to much better vacationing spots that can use your British pounds/Euros to better use than to further occupation, genocide, oppression and Apartheid.

    This answer sufficed for him to tell me that my passport was being retained and that I should direct myself to a room in a quiet corner of the immigration hall for “a few more questions.”

    He he he…And your passport was scanned and saved into Mossad’s database to be used at a later date when someone relevant is murdered, an important site is blown up or a plane or planes are smashed into buildings somewhere and is scattered about for the convenience of the local authorities to find and easily “solve” the case. But, hey, as a repeated visitor to the no-man land that is ISreal, you should know that.

    • seafoid says:

      I was thinking about Israel and the security questions. I would say I was studying the Baal Shem Tov .

      Would that pass muster I wonder? Because the BST is key to the whole mess.

  3. RE: “I told her [the functionary of the Israeli Inquisition] that I would first spend two or three days in and around Jerusalem*, visiting the Church of the Holy Sepulchre to pray for my brother (I explained why) and traveling to Bethlehem . . . I was, of course, faced with the usual conundrum for anyone arriving in Israel wishing to include the West Bank as part of an itinerary. Mention any West Bank destination other than Bethlehem and you will be refused admission to Israel; fail to mention it and have it suspected and you will be refused admission anyway.” [Dare I say Kafkaesque? - J.L.D.] ~ Mark Kerrison

    MY COMMENT: Considering that paisley hat, it’s a wonder Kerrison didn’t have his head handed to him on a silver-plated platter by the Shin Bet officers of the Israeli Inquisition! ! !

    SEE : “Schoolboy’s campaign to besmirch an eminent professor smacks of totalitarian society”, by Philip Weiss Mondoweiss, 3/17/03

    [EXCERPTS] Earlier this week, I posted a piece about a Jewish senior at Croton-Harmon High School in New York who by accusing John Mearsheimer of anti-Semitism in letters to school authorities was able to postpone for a year a distinguished alumnus award that had been announced for Mearsheimer, an eminent professor of international relations at the University of Chicago. My tone was ironical; but two other responses have appeared that are smarter than mine. First, Jerry Haber reflects on his own Zionist indoctrination, followed by Scott McConnell’s savage reflection, contained in my headline.
    First Haber, writing in the comments section at the Jewish Week site, where young Josh Blumberg’s account appeared:
    Around forty years ago, I was in a similar situation. My high school had invited a former alumnus, a retired State Department diplomat, to speak to the students, mostly non-Jewish, on the Middle East. At the time, I had been indoctrinated with the classic Zionist narrative that nowadays very few thinking Israelis would accept. I protested to the school, which as a result decided to invite a pro-Israeli speaker for balance.
    It took me around thirty years of reading and thinking to be weaned away from the hasbara (It wasn’t called that at the time) that I had been fed at my afternoon Hebrew school. . .

    McConnell at the American Conservative site:

    I’m struck also by the young accuser’s enormous sense of ideological entitlement. I can recall being eighteen, and twenty-two, and getting involved in various campaigns and protests. But I can’t imagine thinking that I could write some letters leveling false and defamatory accusations against an eminent, highly scrutinized professor, with the more or less complete expectation that I would get what I wanted. Granted, American society has changed a lot since 1970, but still.
    I too would commend the school board for courage in resisting a neo-McCarthyite smear attempt. Nevertheless, the entire story gives off a faint whiff of totalitarianism, of those societies in which responsible middle-aged people tiptoe around in fear of accusations from self-righteous and highly indoctrinated young people. . .

    SOURCE – link to mondoweiss.net

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    • P.S. RE: “I too would commend the school board for courage in resisting a neo-McCarthyite smear attempt. Nevertheless, the entire story gives off a faint whiff of totalitarianism, of those societies in which responsible middle-aged people tiptoe around in fear of accusations from self-righteous and highly indoctrinated young people.” ~ Scott McConnell (from above)

      MY COMMENT: To say the story gives off only a faint whiff of totalitarianism might be a bit of an understatement.

      SEE: “The Trial of Israel’s Campus Critics”, by David Theo Goldberg & Saree Makdisi, Tikkun Magazine, September/October 2009

      [EXCERPT] . . . It is an extraordinary fact that no fewer than thirty-three distinct organizations – including AIPAC, the Zionist Organization of America, the American Jewish Congress, and the Jewish National Fund – are gathered together today as members or affiliates of the Israel on Campus Coalition. The coalition is an overwhelmingly powerful presence on American college campuses for which there is simply no equivalent on the Palestinian or Arab side. Its self-proclaimed mission is not merely to monitor our colleges and universities. That, after all, is the commitment of Campus Watch, which was started by pro-Israel activists in 2002. It is, rather (and in its own words), to generate “a pro-active, pro-Israel agenda on campus.”
      There is, accordingly, disproportionate and unbalanced intervention on campuses across the country by a coalition of well-funded organizations, who have no time for — and even less interest in — the niceties of intellectual exchange and academic process. Insinuation, accusation, and defamation have become the weapons of first resort to respond to argument and criticism directed at Israeli policies. As far as these outside pressure groups (and their campus representatives) are concerned, the intellectual and academic price that the scholarly community pays as a result of this kind of intervention amounts to little more than collateral damage. . .

      ENTIRE ARTICLE – link to tikkun.org

    • P.P.P.P.S. ALSO RE: “I too would commend the school board for courage in resisting a neo-McCarthyite smear attempt. Nevertheless, the entire story gives off a faint whiff of totalitarianism, of those societies in which responsible middle-aged people tiptoe around in fear of accusations from self-righteous and highly indoctrinated young people.” ~ Scott McConnell (from above)

      FOR MORE NEO-MCCARTHYITE SMEARS CAUSING EVEN MORE OF A WHIFF OF TOTALITARIANISM, SEE: “Feeling the wrath of the Israel lobby, ‘WSJ’ neocon virtually accuses some advocates of dual loyalty”, By Philip Weiss, Mondoweiss, 3/30/13

      Many people have sent me this Bret Stephens column in the Wall Street Journal five days back in which Stephens, a neoconservative and ardent supporter of Israel, reports that he was disinvited that day from a speaking gig at an unnamed pro-Israel organization because he wrote that Jonathan Pollard should not be freed.
      I was abruptly disinvited from delivering a keynote to a charitable pro-Israel organization for the sin of opposing, in my last column, the release of convicted spy Jonathan Pollard.

      And that was just the icing on the blizzard of opprobrium—”scurrilous,” “unbelievable,” “arrogant and callous,” “it is anti-Semitic not to free him,” and so on—that piled into my inbox from people whose most fervent political identity is their support for Israel.

      Stephen says this rage is a symptom of a “diseased politics.” He evidently means a component of the Israel lobby that doesn’t understand that we’re Americans first. These advocates are damaging their own cause by fulfilling an anti-Semitic canard . . .

      SOURCE – link to mondoweiss.net

  4. Taxi says:

    Thanks for sharing, kerrison.

    Am surprised the khazars didn’t bludgeon your ears with khamas khamas khkhkhamas with every other question!

    • tokyobk says:

      I understand pointing out the irony that Ashkenazim might be significantly descended from medieval Turkic converts in light of claims that Israel was given by God to the Jews and secular variants of that idea. But casual use of Khazar for Jew is despicable and embarrassing. (or, a la Farrakhan and Nazi history “so-called Jews,” since the fake Hebrews are thus racial impostors and identity thieves.)

      No other purely ethnic slight would be allowed here and for good reason.

      As you well know, anyway, the guards could be Iraqi or Yemenite since half of Israel is non Ashkenazic.

      Its a sad and moving essay and its seems (expressed also in his rejection of anti Judaism) that the author kept his humanity in tact which would be hard for anyone who went through that type of bullying.

      Lastly, and in no way a defense of the above treatment, the implication is that any notification of travel to the WB means refusal but groups are traveling there all the time as are editors of this site. Do people just not say they are going there?

      • tokyobk says:

        “Khazar” as you use it here has the same low pedigree as “Fakestinian.”

        • Cliff says:

          No it is not BK.

          ‘Fakestinian’ is not an actual identifier, rooted in some historical truth.

          It is a slanderous term. An invented term. Slang. Etc.

          Khazar is an ethno-religious distinction used to explain the historical origins of a subset of Jewry.

          Who is a Jew? If someone converts to Judaism, they’re Jewish. But they aren’t born from Jewish parents. And then there is someone who IS born from Jewish parents but is atheist.

          And Zionism lumps these differences altogether as ‘the Jewish nation’.

          And then, there’s the Holocaust and historical antisemitism and you wonder if in a generation or two, that recent convert is going to get offended by anti-Zionism becoming too close a shave.

          What about those Russian Jews? Are they all actually Jews? Or are they simply Russian immigrants escaping a dungeon and using the Law Of Return as a free ticket?

          I think there are plenty of grounds to use the ‘so-called’ Jews identifier. Not in the ABSURD Nazi context you’re suggesting but in the context of THIS conflict and the identity politics that exist in the forefront and in the periphery – effectively everywhere.

        • sardelapasti says:

          “Khazar” sounds offensive to racists who, like the Zionist, belong that birth accidents give any collective rights. Even though discussing anyone’s birth accidents is offensive to opponents of racism, reiterating the most probable origin of the Ashkenazi is the best way to show that Zionism is a lie from start to end. In addition to being, in the very apt phrase by Erdogan, a crine against humanity.
          Comparing this to base insult by invaders at their victims… lame.

      • or, a la Farrakhan and Nazi history “so-called Jews,”

        no one said so called jews. shlomo sands never said so called jews. that john hopkins dna dr never said so called jews. why would you think that? don’t you mean so called jewish palestinian ancestors? or so called homeland?

        i don’t think it would make any difference at all unless, collectively, there was homeland framing justifying the nakba and the state on past ancestry. so it becomes politicized. but if zionists can play that game there’s an argument to be made it’s fair game for the opposition to play it too.

        anyway, it’s your own limitations wrt defining ‘jewish’ that would make descendents of the Khazars ‘so called jews’. i think they’re jews, i just don’t think they’re indigenous to the region of palestine. it’s not racist to say that is it? we’re not all supposed to be down w/believing biblical narrative are we? or pretending we believe it.

        i will say it was a tad disrespectful, but there’s nothing racist about calling someone a Khazar.

        link to en.wikipedia.org

        a key commercial role as a crossroad between China, the Middle East, and Europe.[4] Starting in the 8th century, the Khazar royalty and much of the aristocracy are reported to have converted to Judaism.

        what’s racist about that? maybe i am out of line. i will find out if i am. but logically speaking, it doesn’t imply anyone isn’t really jewish because conversions are accepted in judaism. especially from a thousand plus years ago. jeez. there’s nothing ‘so called’ about that.

        • lysias says:

          or, a la Farrakhan and Nazi history “so-called Jews,”

          I’ve read a fair amount of Nazi writing, and I cannot say I recall Nazis ever accusing Jews of being “so-called” or fake Jews, or bringing up the Khazars.

          There would have been no reason to, since the Nazis were opposed to Jews just because they thought they were real Jews. If any alleged Jews were in fact Khazars, that would mean they were not Semites, and not members of the race Nazis thought was opposed to the Aryans.

        • hophmi says:

          “i will say it was a tad disrespectful, but there’s nothing racist about calling someone a Khazar. ”

          Really? You think there’s nothing wrong with labelling people with an ethnic identifier with which they specifically have told you again and again they don’t acknowledge or identify with?

          It’s clearly a slur. But around here, slurs are OK as long as they’re directed at Jews. It’s antisemitism, not anti-Zionism.

        • Djinn says:

          So you’ll start referring to Palestinian citizens of Israel rather than Arab-Israelis I guess?

        • hophmi says:

          I’ve referred to Arab-Israelis as Palestinians many times. I’m just not going to fit into your little box, am I.

      • Abdul-Rahman says:

        Khazar is not a “racist” term at all, it is simply the predominant background for somewhere around 90% of the world population that is identified as Jewish (putting aside the little fact that Judaism was, is, and always will be ONLY a religion; no matter how much “race” obsessed neo-Nazis and Zionists will try to deny this simple fact).

        link to google.com

        Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

        (AFP) – Jan 16, 2013

        PARIS — Jews of European origin are a mix of ancestries, with many hailing from tribes in the Caucasus who converted to Judaism and created an empire that lasted half a millennium, according to a gene study.

        The investigation, its author says, should settle a debate that has been roiling for more than two centuries.

        Jews of European descent, often called Ashkenazis, account for some 90 percent of the more than 13 million Jews in the world today.

        According to the so-called Rhineland Hypothesis, Ashkenazis descended from Jews who progressively fled Palestine after the Moslem conquest of 638 AD.

        They settled in southern Europe and then, in the late Middle Ages, about 50,000 of them moved from the Rhineland in Germany into eastern Europe, according to the hypothesis.

        But detractors say this idea is implausible.

        Barring a miracle –which some supporters of the Rhineland Hypothesis have in fact suggested — the scenario would have been demographically impossible.

        It would mean that the population of Eastern European Jews leapt from 50,000 in the 15th century to around eight million at the start of the 20th century.

        That birth rate would have been 10 times greater than that of the local non-Jewish population. And it would have occurred despite economic hardship, disease, wars and pogroms that ravaged Jewish communities.

        Seeking new light in the argument, a study published in the British journal Genome Biology and Evolution, compares the genomes of 1,287 unrelated individuals who hail from eight Jewish and 74 non-Jewish populations.

        Geneticist Eran Elhaik of the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health in Baltimore, Maryland, trawled through this small mountain of data in search of single changes in the DNA code that are linked to a group’s geographical origins.

        Such telltales have been used in past research to delve into the origins of the Basque people and the pygmy people of central Africa.

        Among European Jews, Elhaik found ancestral signatures that pointed clearly to the Caucasus and also, but to a smaller degree, the Middle East.

        The results, said Elhaik, give sound backing for the rival theory — the “Khazarian Hypothesis.”

        Under this concept, eastern European Jews descended from the Khazars, a hotchpotch of Turkic clans that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries AD and, influenced by Jews from Palestine, converted to Judaism in the 8th century.

        The Judeo-Khazars built a flourishing empire, drawing in Jews from Mesopotamia and imperial Byzantium.

        They became so successful that they sent offshoots into Hungary and Romania, planting the seeds of a great diaspora.

        But Khazaria collapsed in the 13th century when it was attacked by the Mongols and became weakened by outbreaks of the Black Death.

        The Judeo-Khazars fled westwards, settling in the rising Polish Kingdom and in Hungary, where their skills in finance, economics and politics were in demand, and eventually spread to central and western Europe, according to the “Khazarian Hypothesis.”

        “We conclude that the genome of European Jews is a tapestry of ancient populations including Judaised Khazars, Greco-Roman Jews, Mesopotamian Jews and Judeans,” says Elhaik.

        “Their population structure was formed in the Caucasus and the banks of the Volga, with roots stretching to Canaan and the banks of the Jordan.”

        Many things are unknown about the Khazars, whose tribal confederation gathered Slavs, Scythians, Hunnic-Bulgars, Iranians, Alans and Turks.

        But, argues Elhaik, the tale sketched in the genes is backed by archaeological findings, by Jewish literature that describes the Khazars’ conversion to Judaism, and by language, too.

        “Yiddish, the language of Central and Eastern European Jews, began as a Slavic language” before being reclassified as High German, he notes.

        Another pointer is that European Jews and their ancestral groups in the Caucasus and Middle East share a relatively high risk of diseases such as cystic fibrosis.

        The investigation should help fine-tune a fast-expanding branch of genomics, which looks at single-change DNA mutations that are linked with inherited disease, adds Elhaik.

        Copyright © 2013 AFP. All rights reserved.

      • kalithea says:

        “Its a sad and moving essay and its seems (expressed also in his rejection of anti Judaism) that the author kept his humanity in tact which would be hard for anyone who went through that type of bullying.”

        First of all, it’s called anti-Semitism not anti-Judaism. And I’m sure if the victim of this harrowing experience had written that he understood why the author of the anti-Semitic graffiti scrawled what he did; you would be here JUSTIFYING what Zionists did to him.

        Your entire comment reeks of whining and nitpicking self-righteousness and where pray-tell is your RIGHTEOUSNESS??? Where is the compassion you feel for all people subjected to this shet for nothing merely because of the color of their skin or the sound of their voice??? Where’s your outrage for THAT RACISM and injustice inflicted by Zionists on the unsuspecting and innocent traveller who did nothing wrong, but merely wanted to visit the Dome of the Rock or the Holy Sepulchre?

        For your information, using Khazar to describe Zionists that went to squat on Palestinian land is like saying, “so-and-so from Kalamazoo and his grannie from Timbuktu with no connection whatsoever to that land except theoretical, distant DNA” can immigrate to Israel and STEAL Palestinian land but ethnically-cleansed Palestinians who’s grandparents were born in Palestine and who themselves were born there and who’s children are being born in refugee camps all living in misery for decades in those camps can’t return! Now that’s what I call a RACIST policy! Where’s your compassion for the people suffering daily because of this racist Zionist policy; or is it strictly limited to defending the DNA of illegal settlers?

        Righteousness begins with defending the rights of those who suffer REAL injustice not the exclusive entitlement excuse of those committing it!

      • Danaa says:

        TokyBok – there is nothing demeaning in pointing out that the vast majority of Ashkenazi jews (the ones from eastern and middle Europe are descendants of the Khazari (see the most recent definitive study on this matter). For one, the Kahazaris were a great warrior race and one should be proud to have that lineage. For another, the Khazars had a real empire too – and for several centuries. Unlike that pretend empire of the little davidian settlement that was supposed to be some “great kingdom” in the land known as judea (the biblical name for the region) but that no one has ever been able to prove. Now, it’s true, having rejected the true origins, and having committed to hiding them -which took centuries and centuries of hard PR work, an over-zealous attachment to the mythological lineage of the [mini] House of David, is perhaps understandable. As is the laying of claim to some concocted origin in the middle east (the land of Canaan, dubbed in the 20th century as the land of Israel” see Sand’s latest book). Why, the Mormons did the same thing – don’t they believe in an all-American Jesus as revealed by his all- American prophet?

        But speaking of attachments to the past, I am also very attached to the lands the Huns conquered (the greater Hunland, which includes, among others, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, western Russia, parts of China, Turkey, Khazakstan and Italy). To prove my lineage I’ll give you a hint – I have an ancestor by the name of Attila. in fact, every year i pray – Next Year in Milano – if i forget thee – etc. etc.. Oh, and I get all in a tizzy when someone tries to present the works of one, Mao Tze Tung (well, at least parts of the little Red Book) as the proper talmudic interpretation of ancient prophesies. nothing like a tizzy to constitute proper proof of anything – just see the rabbinic commentaries that accompany that other talmud – were they all at each other’s throat over mere single words – I tell you!

        Most importantly, Tokybok, since my ancestors and yours have had a few centuries reign in Khazak land, we are relatives! probably barely 20 generations removed! we should really celebrate our common heritage and rise – in unison – against those who’d malign the Huns as anything but the most benevolent and greatest of conquerors. Sure beats one Joshua who was apparently guilty of the most atrocious, heinous reprehensible acts of ethnic cleansing known in mankind’s history – a war criminal to boot who could more than hold a candle to Pol Pot in blood thirstiness (or was it his “god’ that admonished him to slaughter babies and cows for fear of contamination?). Well, I’d say that, for us, true Hun and Khazari descendants , we should really work harder to disclaim the existence of that Joshua fellow – a pretender just like Ghingis!

        Go Attila! Go Khazars!

        • Citizen says:

          @ Danaa

          How any one can read the biblical story of what Joshua did, and his God who directed him, and not be appalled–frightens me. Yet how many millions or billions of humans over the centuries have had no problem at all with this story? Obviously, the natives in the land of ancient Canaan never had a decent PR person. In fact, it seems to me they never had any spokesperson at all. This reminds me of what Hitler said, when divulging his secret plans to some insiders, “Who remembers the Armenians?” Treble irony there since recognition of the Armenian genocide is still a political question in the 21St Century.

      • tokyobk, Do people just not say they are going there?

        frequently not, except perhaps palestinians with relatives there. i am not completely up on the topic and i imagine policies change but when i entered in 09 they made me sign a document promising i would not enter ‘any area controlled by the PA’ before allowing me thru, after an 8 hr wait. i entered @ eilat. at first i refused to sign the document (i don’t like signing things knowing i have no intention of keeping the agreement) but then changed my mind.

        this is just part and partial of visiting people caged by israel. palestinians have no control on who can visit them. in fact, when they first showed me the paper i said, ‘what a farce, everyone knows the PA is an authority in name only. go ahead, tell me they actually control anything.’ and of course the woman would not say the PA was the authority there, because that would imply israel wasn’t. and here she is controlling who could go to the WB.

      • ryan-o says:

        I agree with tokyobk. Khazar is primarily used out of disrespect even when used to divorce biblical land claims. The notion of a biblical right to a land is already absurd as it is. That’s before considering the centuries of absence or the realities of the occupation, the latter which is even more important. In no civilized society should it be tolerated to uproot and burn olive trees, to dehumanize an entire ethnic group(s), to subject them to embarrassing check points, to politically and publicly demean them at every opportunity, to indiscriminately arrest and even kill them, etc. all within violation of international law.

        If Israel ever went to court over their crimes, “God gave me the land” would not be an excuse even if it could somehow proven to be true. “God gave me the land” wouldn’t hold up in a court of law anyways unless the judge and jury were religious fanatics.

        The thing about the Khazars is how little history knows about them, but what little we know is nothing to be ashamed of. They were a major commercial hub on the Silk Road and had very close diplomatic and military relations with the Byzantine Romans. At least one Roman emperor, Leo IV, was a Khazar. The Cossacks likely derive their name from Khazar and the Caspian Sea is still called the Khazar Sea in some Persian and Turkic languages. One of the reasons I doubt the mass conversion story is because of genetics. Indeed, many of the Y DNA and mtDNA haplogroups considered “Khazar” are also found among Palestinians and Druze as well people living on both sides of the Red Sea.

        • W.Jones says:

          Ryan,

          What do you think about Yiddish- is it more German or slavic as the article claims? I know Russian – and Yiddish sounds pretty German to me. It does not sound east slavic.

          On top of that, the Khazars were not slavic anyway, but Turkic. So if the author is trying to say Yiddish is a Khazar language, then the language would be more like Turkish than slavic.

          Out of the 40 Yiddish words in the citation below, these resemble the parenthesized east slavic words:

          bubbe (grandma – babushka)
          nu (well, so – nu)
          walk aimlessly – shlep (usually to strike someone, but sometimes to “plunk” – shlop)
          trinkets – tchatchke (religious beads as in a rosary – chotki)

          link to dailywritingtips.com

          For the words below, the following parenthesized words and their meanings are east slavic:

          boy – boychik (boy – malchik)
          talk nonsense – hok a chainik (tea kettle – chainik)
          kishka (intestine)
          pupik (belly button – pupka)
          zhlub (redneck, slob, goon, intolerant person – zhlob)

          However, these are part of a quite longer list:
          link to sbjf.org

          Looking at the full lists the east slavic words they have in common look like exceptions, and it looks like those slavic words are basically loan words into a non-slavic language (Yiddish), although admittedly there could be cases that went into slavic from Yiddish.

          I would be interested to see how someone who knows Germanic or Turkish languages reacts to the phrases in the full list, and whether he could see Yiddish as possibly a Germanic or Turkic language.

        • lysias says:

          I know German (as well as some Russian,) and Yiddish sounds very German to me. Even before I read Rabbi Benjamin Blech’s Complete Idiot’s Guide to Learning Yiddish (an extremely funny book, by the way,) I would say I could understand about two thirds of Yiddish when I heard it spoken. After I read Blech, I realized Yiddish is primarily a South German dialect, sharing many features with such South German dialects that I have studied as Alsatian and Swabian.

        • ryan-o says:

          W.Jones,

          I would agree that Yiddish is more German. I’ve been told that German speakers along the Alps could understand a degree of Yiddish back in the day. Don’t know if they could have a full out conversation but enough words were familiar to get by. AFAIK Yiddish spread to the East from the West which is how Slavic words wound up incorporated into Eastern dialects.

          Germanic and Slavic languages are part of the Indo-European language family. The Khazars spoke a Turkic language which a 10th century Persian cartographer said resembled the language of the Bulgars (also Turkic). This seems to be supported by the only written inscription attributed to Khazars (a letter with a Turkic inscription). The odds of them speaking Yiddish are unlikely. The odds of the Khazars speaking a Caucasian language or even Magyar are better than Yiddish.

          There are 12th century Polish coins written with Aramaic characters representing Slavic words though. It’s speculated that Khazars also wrote in Aramaic or Hebrew though I haven’t seen evidence of this. Obviously the Ashkenazi culture wrote in Aramaic. Whether any of this is related I don’t know.

        • Ellen says:

          W.Jones, This subject has been covered before. Yiddish is a very old spoken German (with a sprinkling of other influences) that survived. German speakers can understand Yiddish. (I speak German, albeit it is not perfect, especially my written German — which is awful.)

          Here is an experiment between modern German speaker and a Yiddish speaker.

        • piotr says:

          Cossack’s name is a Turkic word for a “freeman”, and Kazakhs of Kazakhstan have identical origin of their name. Cossack originally were serfs who became free by fleeing to the borderland with Tatars and adopted many Tatar terms and customs. I think the name of Khazars is unrelated.

          It is quite controversial how many Khazars were absorbed by Ashkenazi. I read that Ashkenazi Levi’s have Y-chromosomes characteristic of Western Siberia, while Cohens have Y-chromosomes that are clearly from the region of Palestine. One plausible explanation is that Khazars created a trading network with Jews who could trade with Persia and Byzantium alike, and after the fall of their state Khazar elite retained their status as rich merchants in the region. In the process their created a myth of Levi origin and were accepted as such by Ashkenazi. In 12 century there were allegedly only ca. 20,000 Ashkenazi Jews, so we are talking about several hundred families moving from Black Sea region to Central Europe. At least one of them travelled to Spain and was the informer of Rabbi Yehuda Halevi. Jewish traders were moving and settling freely through Muslim and Christian countries from Spain to Persia (and even India), and Ashkenazi were not a very separated group.

  5. dimadok says:

    Some common sense is in order here- calling yourself a photojournalist it’s a stretch, since there are 30,000 “journalists” like you on the website. Just a photo activistic freelancer would be more appropriate. Therefore suddenly you become just a British citizen involved in anti- Israeli activities in London, making you a subject for detention and deportation solely on the basis of Israeli authorities discretion.
    Sad story indeed, but I think Mr. Kane and Ms. Deger can provide more than enough of this kind of “journalism” on your behalf from Israel and Palestinian territories.
    Stay warm in London.

    • Cliff says:

      Dim Duck says:

      “a photo activistic freelancer ”

      What the hell is a photo activistic freelancer? Are you saying journalists have no politics?

      Or that they are ‘activistic’ because they are activists? And they are activists, with a pejorative connotation. And it’s come to carry said pejorative connotations because you’re an Israeli/Zionist troll who comes from a society with absolute no meaningful progressivism/Left.

      You apply this stupid label because he’s not a Zionist.

      • susan1 says:

        Cliff, you are obviously rather young, but to single out Israel as a country bereft of ” meaningful progressivism/ Left ” politics is absurd and a meaningless statement in of itself. The point IS the WHOLE left wing / progressive movement has simply collapsed in the West, particularly in the last quarter of a century, since the demise of Communism. But you were just being born around that time. Hence your ignorance I suppose. — or maybe it’s because your eyes are bleeding. Ha Ha! or maybe cos you’re an April Fool..

        • Cliff says:

          susan,

          Singling Israel out doesn’t matter. Israel is doing the colonizing. Not this amorphous blob of ‘other countries’ you conveniently summon up to whitewash Israeli crimes.

          It doesn’t change the fact that your apartheid State has no progressive movement or Left.

          We’re on an Israel/Palestine blog. So talk about Israel/Palestine. Use other countries in your examples if they’re relevant.

          They aren’t here though. It’s not simply that Israel has no meaningful progressive movement. It’s that Israel is an apartheid State. A colonial settler State.

          Israel oppresses millions of people. It lords over them and privileges Jews over them, intentionally. Not by some ‘accident’.

          Thats why saying the obvious, that you have no progressives, is important.

        • kalithea says:

          “Hence your ignorance I suppose. — or maybe it’s because your eyes are bleeding. Ha Ha! or maybe cos you’re an April Fool..”

          I have several comments pending and on another thread none of my comments ever showed up and THIS gets by? Guess, I’ll have to resort to more ad hominem from now on to get on page. Down is up.

        • amigo says:

          or maybe cos you’re an April Fool..S1

          And you will cover the other 11 months –eh soosanna.

        • MK_Ultra says:

          @ kalithea:

          My sentiment (and experience) is exactly the same as that expressed in your second/last paragraph. If I didn’t know better, I’d swear they are deliberately withholding comments critical of Isreal in lieu of those who are simply trolling. It wouldn’t surprise me if they feel the trolling is more effective and attracts more comments. Either way, it’s a sad statement about the censorship of a site that stands for freedom and civil rights.

        • Dutch says:

          I agree. Please refrain, Susan, as should all of us, of this kind of language.

      • dimadok says:

        @Cliff.
        I’m going to reply to you only this time.
        First of all, you should start behaving more politely if you wish for your point to be heard. Second, do not judge others by your own standards of cleverness or stupidity-you don’t know me. And third, he is not a journalist, he is not a naive tourist and you are not a progressive/leftist -otherwise we would be having different conversation here.
        And lastly- you are welcomed to visit Israel any time, but I dont think you’ll like it there- there would be too much “gray” areas for your taste.

        • amigo says:

          Dimadok,s hypocracy.

          His first sentence

          First of all, you should start behaving more politely if you wish for your point to be heard.

          His second sentence.

          Second, do not judge others by your own standards of cleverness or stupidity-you don’t know me.

          What was that about being polite.

          Zionists are never polite.It is not in the nature of thieves or oppressors.

          Oh, what makes you think any normal human being would want to know you.

        • MK_Ultra says:

          Second, do not judge others by your own standards of cleverness or stupidity-you don’t know me.

          Everybody that follows this blog regularly KNOWS you, dimadok. Your comments, personal views and opinions give you and what you are away. There’s no mistaken that.

        • Citizen says:

          @ dimadok
          Yeah, that gray area–despite the USA’s growth in aping Israel towards a police state, Israel still had the USA beat by more than a few miles. With the help of AIPAC the USA is trying hard to catch up, using the same criteria–even though the USA is less than 2% Jewish. Money is everything in the USA. And it shows, ever more so.

        • Djinn says:

          Welcome to visit Israel anytime? Does that apply to all of us? Next time I’m harassed or denied by Israel can I say “hey fascist immigration flunkies, according to dimadok I’m welcome anytime so give me my memory card & iPad back, stop trawling through my history like a sad demented stalker and just let me in OK”?

        • Cliff says:

          @Dim Duck

          No, he is a photojournalist.

          You use ‘activistic’ with a pejorative connotation precisely because the Left is non-existent in Israel. Zionist Jews want no noisy ‘activistic’ activists in the territories.

          You act like the OPT is yours – perhaps you actually believe it is – but there are 5 million Jews and 5 million Palestinians (more or less) and you rule by force. There is no moral legitimacy to Zionism, just effective legitimacy (power).

          Like the circular logic espoused by so many of your fellow fascists (‘Israeli law said so’).

          I judge you by your comments – which aren’t very complex. You post a sentence or two of whiny hysterics usually and then vanish.

    • W.Jones says:

      What do you think about the difference that Soviet authorities did not use genital strip searches and harsh detention on US journalists critical of the USSR?

      For example, if the USSR did choose to deport a westerner at the airport, why would they do this in a respectful way?

    • kalithea says:

      No doubt Zionists hate pictures that depict human rights abuses, because photos don’t lie and speak a thousand words. They can try to silence words by falsely labelling them “anti-Semitic”; but the only way Zionists have of censoring real-life abuses caught on film is by punishing the photographer unjustly or killing the filmaker which they’ve already done in the past (i.e. James Miller) and thus ironically exposing their own true fascist colors.

    • K Renner says:

      “photoactivistic” freelancers are far more worthy of the title “journalist” when they go to Palestine in search of the truth and with the intent to share what they’ve found, as opposed to those “journalists” content to spout the lying Israeli narrative whenever it comes up in the news.

  6. Fritz says:

    It is a shame that neither the US, nor UK nor EU countries are interested in doing something against these security politics. Israel is free to perform kafkaesk and most often worser policies of security against foreign citizens, but citizens of Israel even officers of IDF, Shin Bet and Mossad enjoy all the freedom provided in Europe and US, no interrogation, no questions about emails, facebook, mobiles or about their record of human rights violation against the Palestinaian population, nothing, no questions.

  7. Ecru says:

    “The few anti-Semitic comments and swastikas sickened me.”

    Sorry (and I know this will upset some people on this site, not least the people who put it up in the first place) but more and more I’m seeing REAL antisemitism, in this case the reflexive distrust of Jews and their motives (not swastikas thank you), as a valid response to the overwhelming support Israel receives from the world Jewish population no matter what it does, and the spiteful, vicious attacks Jewish groups and representatives make upon anyone uttering even the mildest criticism of Israel and Zionism. Christian Zionists luckily have little impact on this side of the Atlantic.

    It’s sad, tragic even and I’m not alone. If Jews of conscience, people I know exist, really want to get on with their fellows, they really need DESPERATELY to scream out “NOT IN MY NAME!” and keep repeating until they cannot be ignored. They absolutely must take back being Jewish from Zionism before it’s too late.

    • perhaps valid is the wrong word ecru, i hope you don’t mean that.

      • Dutch says:

        valid response > inevitable response; result

      • kalithea says:

        Sooo, let’s say you’re living in 1930s Germany witnessing German apathy towards Jewish oppression with complicit support and you held up a mirror to German “Christian” society depicting Romans in the colliseum who PAID to watch Christians slaughtered by lions with a caption reading: YOU are today’s Romans! Your frustration and rage via this analogy, would be valid or in…valid?

        So Jews are funding Israel, Zionism, settlements, Z-propaganda whatnot, i.e. “paying” to witness perpetual Palestinian “human” suffering and crimes against humans.

        Now, I’m not saying I approve of the analogy per se, albeit the anger at the hypocrisy, irony and injustice of it is totally justified. So, I sure as hell get it! And I’m not sure what I’d do if I spent a few nights in a Zionist prison without justification and walked just one midnight mile in a Palestinians shoes! Which means, I’ll reserve judgment on the analogy rather than risk getting all self-righteous and huffy.

        Should I hold my breath for this one to see the light of day…?

        • Dutch says:

          I understand Ecru’s use of ‘valid’ as ‘factual’ or ‘real’, and I believe that what he describes is actually taking place and/or to be expected anytime soon. I am not triggered by his use of the word – just offering Annie some alternatives.

          As for Ecru’s call for Jews to stand up, he’s right, that’s the answer, and that’s exactly what’s happening here at Mondoweiss.

      • Ecru says:

        You’re right “understandable” is a better word. You’ll also note that in the second paragraph I do make mention that there are people who buck the trend, just that they’re not loud and insistent enough.

        • hophmi says:

          “more and more I’m seeing REAL antisemitism, in this case the reflexive distrust of Jews and their motives (not swastikas thank you), as a valid response to the overwhelming support Israel receives from the world Jewish population no matter what it does, and the spiteful, vicious attacks Jewish groups”

          There is always an excuse. It is never valid. If they succeed, it is because people like you either stand there and do nothing, or give them your passive support. This site has become something more than passive support for antisemitism.

        • Cliff says:

          No, hoppy.

          People like you are the major causes of antisemitism today. You also perpetuate it because it informs your identity.

          You see antisemitism everywhere and unsurprisingly conflate anti-Zionism with Jew-hatred.

          It’s you who conflates all Palestinians with Nazis and overstate the Mufti’s significance.

          It’s you who says Palestinians were trying to push ‘the Jews into the sea’.

          It’s you who sees nothing wrong with a Nazi propaganda-like cartoon drawn and written by StandWithUs depicting Palestinian identity and nationalism as a snake.

          And it’s you who never stops raising the spectre of suicide bombing as if millions of Jews were massacred by this ‘exotic’ violence, just a few minutes ago.

          MW is one of the few prominent anti-Zionist websites in existence.

          Liars and hasbarists like you have slandered similar websites like 972+ or Steve Walt’s blog or Juan Cole or EI, etc. etc.

          Liars and hasbarists like you also slander ALL MAJOR and MAINSTREAM human rights NGOs as anti-semitic as well.

          In short, you are the biggest antisemite on the website and people like you (Zionists) are the biggest anti-semites in the world.

          Zionists like the IDF fascists who carved a Star of David into Gazan farmland.

          Israel and it’s supporters put Jewish identity in front of Zionist nationalism.

          You use Jewishness and Jewish history to defend and whitewash Israeli crimes and Zionism.

          So you should take responsibility for your actions and the reactions.

          But you don’t – precisely because you’re an ethno-religious nationalist.

          Extremist nationalism is bad enough and no one needs to recite Orwell to understand why.

          But you’re a Jewish nationalist but an American citizen – who regularly uses America to whitewash Israeli atrocities and failings. A tribalist who hates all non-Jews and only sees them as obstacles or potential obstacles for Zionist territorial expansion or the legitimacy of the Zionist dream/project/reality.

          Here’s some breaking news for you. MW is not going to collapse on itself because a hasbarist wart of a human being is crying and slandering it’s reputation.

          Deal with it, loser.

        • eljay says:

          >> This site has become something more than passive support for antisemitism.

          I don’t see anyone on this site actively or passively supporting anti-Semitism.

          But I do constantly see Zio-supremacists on this site actively supporting, advocating for, excusing, tolerating, justifying and defending all manner of Jewish immorality and injustice, including Jewish supremacism, Jewish oppression of non-Jews, Jewish theft and colonization of land in Palestine and Jewish murder of non-Jews.

        • Ecru says:

          Hophmi please rest assured I don’t dislike you because you’re Jewish.

          I dislike you because you’re an ethno-supremist nasty little piece of work.

          OK?

        • seafoid says:

          Israel is committing slow national suicide.
          And this site is the Spanish inquisition, is it ?
          Get off your high horse.

        • hophmi says:

          The site propounds a conspiracy theory about Jews in America acting as a fifth column to send American troops to war. That’s when it’s not citing fringe academic literature denying Jewish history, alleging (falsely) widespread Zionist-Nazi links, and claiming that there shouldn’t be circumcision. It calls Jewish religious education separatist.

          The commentators refer to Jews by slurs like “Khazar.” They sometimes cite Holocaust denial literature. They repeatedly argue that Jews are dually loyal. Etc. Etc. Etc.

          Don’t tell me about how you’re not antisemitic. No one outside of your little cult here would conclude otherwise.

        • OK?

          ecru, i think you unintentionally opened a can of worms. i think i understand what you meant, but imho, antisemitism is never a valid response to zionist crimes. it behooves us as activists to constantly be on the alert for ideas and verbiage that justifies bigotry because it’s not acceptable.

          i place a lot (the lion’s share) of blame for the confusion around how we talk about zionists crimes on zionists themselves; the efforts made to conflate criticism with israel and anti semitism is now institutionalized, considering the climate in this arena (open the link!) link to mondoweiss.net we simply cannot afford, ever, to justify hatred towards any people based on their ethnicity. we are fighting a battle we cannot afford to loose.

          the societal consequences of decades of zionist crimes will of course come back to bite. but we have to be on the front lines of articulating what it is we’re fighting against and what we’re fighting for. and every single time we, or anyone, generalizes about jews they actively practice marginalizing very real people who work tirelessly with us in this movement for equality. and when i say marginalize i mean it multifold.

          this idea that there are some straggly insignificant handful of jewish activists in the palestine solidarity movement hurts us. the very concept hurts, and it is a lie, inaccurate and it personally demeans me, my work, and who i am. i work with jewish people everyday in this movement and i don’t see their work as less valuable than my own. so in a way it is as if someone demeaned my own work.

          jvp’s national conference is coming up April 19-21 link to jewishvoiceforpeace.org there are people coming from all over the country, i am so excited. some of the most dedicated vibrant active tireless workers for equality and solidarity are jewish. and there are lots of them. lots and lots and lots. and there are also, obviously, many jews working for equality in groups w/ no jewish identity(like CCR and a multitude of others). so i don’t know why anyone would want to marginalize all these voices by claiming those voices speaking in unison amounts to some drop in a bucket. not when we’re getting louder and louder everyday.

          anyway, everyone knows what the word validity means. there’s never a valid reason to empower/support/condone/or excuse bigotry. that’s why i queried you on your meaning. and i know you know that and it’s an entirely different conversation to have about understanding how zionist crimes fuel hatred against jews. but in any fight for justice then it’s imperative we make sure that doesn’t happen. words matter.

        • jon s says:

          Eljay, you don’t see Anti-Semitism on this site? Are you serious?
          Remember this?
          “Israel is no normal state, but one governed by the forging of Zionist system-logic into a Satanic ideology. . . .”-Joel Kovel
          And from a convert, no less.

        • seafoid says:

          “It calls Jewish religious education separatist.”

          Jewish education is sectarian. So is catholic education. Big deal.

          “That’s when it’s not citing fringe academic literature denying Jewish history, alleging (falsely) widespread Zionist-Nazi links, and claiming that there shouldn’t be circumcision”

          Yes. That is all anyone every discusses here. It has been so long since I saw anything about the IDF.

          “The commentators refer to Jews by slurs like “Khazar.””

          Heritage. but again very rarely invoked.
          Would you prefer another term ?

          “They sometimes cite Holocaust denial literature.”
          Come off it

          “They repeatedly argue that Jews are dually loyal.”
          link to judaicawebstore.com

          And so Mondo is worse than der Sturmer. You need a sit down and a cup of tea.

        • talknic says:

          hophmi “This site has become something more than passive support for antisemitism”

          Antisemitism is hatred of Jews for being Jewish.

          An intense dislike of people who continue to support via a web of lies and deceit the usurping of the Palestinians from their rightful territories, contrary to the laws Israeli AGREED to uphold, is another matter. They’re jerks Jewish or not.

        • hophmi says:

          “People like you are the major causes of antisemitism today. You also perpetuate it because it informs your identity.”

          It’s fairly common to blame the messenger.

          “It’s you who conflates all Palestinians with Nazis and overstate the Mufti’s significance.”

          For what must be the thousandth time, I have never conflated Palestinians with Nazis.

          “It’s you who says Palestinians were trying to push ‘the Jews into the sea’. ”

          I don’t remember ever saying that either.

          “It’s you who sees nothing wrong with a Nazi propaganda-like cartoon drawn and written by StandWithUs depicting Palestinian identity and nationalism as a snake.”

          Sue me. I missed the symbolism; I’m not an artist or a cartoonist and I have spent zero hours reading comic books. That must make me, what’s that phrase of yours? A vile excuse for a human being. Which speaks more about me: the fact that I missed the symbolism, or the fact that I had the humility to check with the cartoonist and say I was wrong? Have you ever done anything like that Cliff?

          Anyway, apparently, it’s racist to represent a national entity (the Palestinians) as a snake, but not racist to make an Israeli flag with a swastika for the Star of David. Don’t bother disentangling the hypocrisy of that one.

          “And it’s you who never stops raising the spectre of suicide bombing as if millions of Jews were massacred by this ‘exotic’ violence, just a few minutes ago.”

          Well, as I’ve said many times: You can’t go around acting as if the proliferation of checkpoints in the West Bank came from nowhere and nothing. So you have to talk about the suicide bombings, even though there haven’t been many successful ones in the past few years. As far as the millions of Jews you say weren’t massacred, as I’ve also said many times, I’m not aware of a rule that says that you should wait until that point to defend the citizens of your country. I have no doubt that if Hamas could have killed more Israelis, they would have. They sure tried to.

          “MW is one of the few prominent anti-Zionist websites in existence. ”

          Oh, there are more than this one, but it’s the most prominent one, I’ll give you that. As I’ve said, my problem with Mondoweiss is not the anti-Zionism. It’s the other stuff, the anti-circumcision pieces, the vitriolic critiques of Judaism in general, the vitriol of people like you, the Jews-caused-Iraq stuff, and so on. For me, this has nothing to do with justice for the Palestinians, and in most places around the world, this sort of rhetoric is a cheap mask for garden-variety Jew hatred. Guess what; in real life, I get along perfectly well with guys like Phil and have at least two good friends who are anti-Zionists. I only wish anti-Zionism wasn’t infected with antisemitism. But, unfortunately, that’s not the case. I don’t exactly know why, but it may be that there are a lot of people, who, like Phil, are simply anti-religion, and thus, provide cover, unwittingly or not, for those in the pro-Palestinian movement who have more invidious aims than simply standing up for the Palestinians.

          “In short, you are the biggest antisemite on the website and people like you (Zionists) are the biggest anti-semites in the world.”

          Yeah, Cliff, we’ve heard this from you before. It’s always everybody else, not you. It’s fun being here, and convincing yourself that everybody agrees with you, isn’t it? It’s a lot better than the real world, where, you know, antisemites are people who say nasty things about Jews, not those who call them out on it.

          “You use Jewishness and Jewish history to defend and whitewash Israeli crimes and Zionism.”

          I don’t recall using “Jewishness” and “Jewish history” to whitewash any crimes. I have, at times, tried to put Israel’s history in some perspective for those who seem to think that history began in the 20th century, or that European history has no relevance to the conflict.

          “But you’re a Jewish nationalist but an American citizen – who regularly uses America to whitewash Israeli atrocities and failings.”

          Well, I do believe that singling out a small country in the way Israel is often singled out is wrong, particularly when other countries with less to lose who are faced with somewhat similar challenges react in much the same way. Again, context. Complexity. The things you apparently fear in your black and white world of high horses, where everybody like me is a racist and everybody like you is an angel.

          “Here’s some breaking news for you. MW is not going to collapse on itself because a hasbarist wart of a human being is crying and slandering it’s reputation. ”

          I wouldn’t think it would collapse. I do think it will remain on the margins, and that it will ultimately do damage to the pro-Palestinian movement as long as people like you are part of it.

        • eljay says:

          >> Eljay, you don’t see Anti-Semitism on this site? Are you serious?

          Poor wording on my part. In response to hophmeee’s comment – “This site has become something more than passive support for antisemitism.” – I should have said “Although anti-Semitic comments – or comments that could be construed as anti-Semitic – are occasionally made by people on this site, I don’t see that this site actively or passively supports anti-Semitism.

          I do see this site as actively supporting anti-Zionism, and I think that’s a very good and just thing. Unfortunately, Zio-supremacists all too often and purposely conflate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism in order to smear the message and the messenger, and to defend their supremacist ideology.

        • hophmi says:

          “An intense dislike of people who continue to support via a web of lies and deceit the usurping of the Palestinians from their rightful territories, contrary to the laws Israeli AGREED to uphold, is another matter. They’re jerks Jewish or not.”

          Can you tell me what the commentary criticizing American Jews who favor, for example, Jewish religious education for their children, or Jews who circumcize (which is the vast majority of them), or Jews who favor marrying within the faith has to do with disliking people who are pro-Israel? Or the favorable quoting of any (and I mean any) Jewish critic of Judaism, like Shahak, or Sand, or any of these guys on the radical left? Or the wholesale slandering of anyone, no matter how supportive of Palestinian rights and a Palestinian state, who favors a Jewish state?

          “Antisemitism is hatred of Jews for being Jewish. ”

          No question about it. But that hatred is expressed in many ways, and some of them are a little more subtle than you’d like to admit, and I don’t think you require the same standard for Islamophobia.

        • tree says:

          Remember this?
          “Israel is no normal state, but one governed by the forging of Zionist system-logic into a Satanic ideology. . . .”-Joel Kovel

          That isn’t an anti-semitic statement, anymore than a similar statement in regards to Naziism is anti-Germanic. Unless of course you think that Zionism is an essential and in-born belief of all Jews. I suspect that is the problem for many Zionist Jews. They think that Zionism is somehow a basic and genetic characteristic of Jews, so to say something against the ideology is to say something against Jews in their minds. But the anti-semitism is actually within the “beholder” in this case. Zionism is a learned ideology. No one ceases to be a Jew when they stop believing in Zionist ideology, any more than a German stops being a German because he/she does’t believe in Nazism.

          The problem as I see it is that Zionism itself sees “Jewishness” as essentially different from the rest of humanity, rather than as an accident of birth, like every other ethnicity, or a set of religious beliefs like every other religion. Thus its hard for Zionist Jews to comprehend that criticism of the Zionist ideology or of individual Jews is not the same as hatred of all Jews. In other words, Zionist Jews tend to think that all Jews are, at root, the same, simply because they are Jews, so that, in their minds, criticism of any Jew is criticism of all Jews – hence anti-Semitic.

        • Cliff says:

          jon s

          are you saying a Jew who is born or converted should always remain Jewish and that if they do convert, they must hate Judaism?

          ‘Satanic ideology’ is attention grabbing but you don’t know Kovel’s argument.

          You just cited an inherently controversial statement.

          Anyways, Israel is a racist, apartheid State with a cult-hive-mind mentality.

          And we see that everyday in articles reporting on Israel and the behavior of the IDF and settlers.

          That’s not controversial.

        • tree says:

          The commentators refer to Jews by slurs like “Khazar.”

          So you consider “Khazar” a slur? The Khazarian Empire was much larger and more significant than the tiny little backwaters of Judea and Samaria. My prediction is that, at some point in the future, most Ashkenazi Jews will learn to be proud of the Khazarian history. There’s no reason not to be, except that it interferes with the “homeland” myth.

          Actually the early Zionist leaders acknowledged and promoted the fact that there were other genetic influences on Ashkenazi Jews than the purely Middle Eastern semitic ones. That’s part of why they believed that Ashkenazis were genetically superior to Sephardic Jews, and why they discriminated against both Sephardic Jews and other non-Jewish semites in Palestine.

          As already mentioned, Ruppin claimed that the affinity, in ancient times, of the IndoGermanic-Jews (the forefathers of some of the Ashkenazim) to the Semitic race was mainly linguistic and cultural and not biological. Since language and culture were the only channels of contact, and since this contact had been lost many generations ago, most of the Ashkenazi Jews did not have any racial affinity with the Semitic race.

          As opposed to the Ashkenazim, many of the Sephardic and Oriental Jews (whom he defined as one group)148 spoke Arabic and had a deep connection to the ArabBedouin-Semitic culture. The claim regarding the interdependence of language and biological structure was very common at the end of the century and it was important to Ruppin to distance the Ashkenazi from what he considered the inferior Semitic languages and culture:

          “Semites are the nations who speak in Semitic languages. In the last thousand years, only a minor part of the Jews have spoken in Semitic languages (Hebrew or Arabic). The major language the Ashkenazi Jew has been using since the Middle Ages is, in its vocabulary and grammar Indo-Germanic” (Ruppin 1933, 29).

          and

          The Ashkenazi, according to Ruppin, is a kind of “poet and mathematician,” an attribute which corresponds to the ideal German enlightened model combined with the Darwinist concept of “liveliness” the primal “life force” (Lebenskraft) described above. The Sephardic-Oriental, on the other hand, is deficient in his intelligence, in his artistic talents and mathematical abilities and, most important; he lacks the vitality of the Lebenskraft. The two qualities that might seem positive: “a sense of reality” and “sharp observation,” if taken in the context of Ruppin’s vocabulary, imply traits belonging to the materialistic nature of the Semites.

          link to tau.ac.il

          Of course, this kind of racist attitude on the part of the “Father of the Jewish Settlements” in Palestine and other early Zionist leaders helps explain the disdain they felt for both the Sephardic and Mizrahi Jews as well as the non-Jewish Semitic Arabs they encountered in Palestine. Nowadays, with so many Mizrahi Jews in Israel, and with the current and well-deserved negative attitudes toward eugenics and the “scientific racism” embraced the early Zionist pioneers, the myth has transformed into Israel being the biological and historical “homeland” of all Jews. Thus, the idiotic idea that “Khazar” is a slur.

        • hophmi says:

          “So you consider “Khazar” a slur? ”

          Yes, I do. I don’t know any Jew who wishes to be referred to as a “Khazar” and both of us know the whole point is to make a political comment.

          Do you refer to Black people as Negros? I didn’t think so. There’s nothing implicitly racist about it, but I guarantee you it’s offensive.

          Do you refer to all Muslims as Saudis or Arabs because Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam? I didn’t think so.

          So let’s cut the crap.

        • you don’t see Anti-Semitism on this site? Are you serious?
          Remember this?
          “Israel is no normal state, but one governed by the forging of Zionist system-logic into a Satanic ideology. . . .”-Joel Kovel

          jon, i do see anti semitism here sometimes just like we see islamophobia. but this particular statement i don’t think is anti semitic and i will tell you why.

          first of all, i don’t use terms like satanic (or evil for that matter) and don’t find them helpful. in fact there was a long conversation about the term and kovel came back and clarified in another posting. it had to do with the reference in some literature and i believe MRW had referenced it and it was sourced in another piece of his writing clarifying his comment. i can find it.

          anyway, if i did use the term and the way i think of it, as something inherently evil, let’s parse that phrase. it does not say zionism is statanic. it says the forging of Zionist system-logic into a Satanic ideology. and i think there is an abundance of evidence this is the case. for example. this is the ideology being forged: link to mondoweiss.net

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): There it was that one [who attacked us].

          ~~~

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): I hate Arabs and I support racism.

          TARACHANSKY (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): Why?

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): Who doesn’t?

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): What why?

          TARACHANSKY: Why do you say that?

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): Because I hate Arabs.

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): Leave him alone.

          TARACHANSKY: I really don’t know if you’re serious or you’re joking.

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): I’m totally serious.

          TARACHANSKY: Why do you hate Arabs?

          CHILD (SUBTITLED TRANSL.): Because they shouldn’t be in this country. It’s one country, for one people. They’re terrorists, and may God burn them all.

          this speaks for many many of the youth of israel as evidenced by the high school polls demonstrating over 50% who do not even think palestinian israelis should have the right to vote. this is learned behavior and it is systematic.

          and another thing by looking at this child’s face it is apparent he is a mizrahi jew, an arab himself, which the state invested heavily in ‘un arabizing’ to facilitate this hate. so he is hating against his own people. it’s disgusting.

          if something is the truth it is not, by definition, anti semitic. of anything can be described as ‘Satanic ideology’, it is the hatred of the ideology this child is expressing. and i do not blame the child, he is a victim of the state.

        • jon s, here is the context of kovel’s use of the term satanic

          link to mondoweiss.net

          But in what sense is “Satanic” to be regarded? After all, this is a word that has been the subject of many volumes of scholarship. I’m a long way from being an expert on the subject, but I do have a particular point of view to share–which one commentator, “MRW,” who posted on January 21, got. I am following the usage, as I do in many circumstances, of William Blake, the chief influence on my intellectual life in general. The signpost here is the phrase “Dark Satanic Mills,” which appears at the beginning of his great long poem, Milton, much of which is devoted to the Satanic. I elaborated on this in a recent essay, which I’ll put on my website, joelkovel.net, as soon as the blasted thing is up and running after being repaired. The essay is called “Dark Satanic Mills: William Blake and the critique of war.” It’s been recently published in We Have Not Been Moved, edited by Elizabeth Martinez, Matt Meyer, and Mandy Carter (Oakland: PM Press, 2012, 366-378). Alas, it’s not an easy read, as it advances the idea that war is more than aggression, weaponry, and imperial possession. It’s also a (Satanic) state of being, Egoic separation from life, replacing life with accusation. Blake calls Satan the “Accuser who is the God of This World.” All of which is close to the cold, cold heart of Zionism.

          and there’s a link to the essay here: link to mondoweiss.net

        • Ecru says:

          @ Annie,

          Thank you for the well thought out reply. I don’t think I’ve ever been so “politely” told off, and fair enough in this case I was at fault. Just one thing though – the “troublesome phrase” was followed by a very strict definition of antisemitism in that context. Not hate you will note – distrust and reflexive distrust at that, that is before thought, unthinking. I think those are important qualifiers. If however you have a problem with my language – don’t query things, just come right out and say what you ant to say, you don’t need to dance all round the houses.

          I agree that antizionism has to be careful not to cross over into antisemitism, that would just be handing the other side free ammunition (beside the fact that hating people for an accident of birth is just Goodies levels of silly). However, the point you make that Zionism has created this conflation is part of what I’m complaining about, because in large part this has only been possible because the Jewish community has been complicit through action and inaction in permitting that conflation to take place. That’s just the way it is. I’m sorry but I’m not going to let the bogeyman of antisemitism stop me from calling the Jewish community to account over its responsibility as regards Zionism and Israel. Equality is equality both in the good and the bad.

          Now “straggly numbers,” I didn’t actually say that nor did I mean to imply it, I’m pretty sure in fact that I didn’t, are you sure you’re not reading things into it there? I certainly didn’t mean to denigrate either you or the work these people are doing that’s for sure. But are these people a “minority?” Yes they are, a vanishingly small minority quite possibly (especially once you dismiss the “Liberal Zionists” from the group) but those are COMPARATIVE terms not absolute ones. If “x” is vanishingly small compared to “y” and “y” is the size of the Sun, then “x” can still be pretty sizable. But it’s not just numbers. Power is also part of the equation here and the volume of the voices raised in protest. And that really is minuscule in comparison. You can hear it, fine that’s great. Wonderful.

          Unfortunately it’s also completely unimportant.

          You’re an activist, most people aren’t and they judge not on what you and other activists do or say, but on what gets to the news, what’s in the papers or on the blogs. And let’s be honest, most people don’t read the blogs which is where most dissenting views are aired. Yes the conferences are nice but unless the speeches reach the ears of the average person in the street they amount to bugger all. And that is bad news, not just for Palestinians but also for Jews.

          And this is the bit people seem to have missed out in the scandal of the v-word. I’m also complaining about the damage Zionism has done to the name of Jews around the world. The danger Zionism has put Jews in. And the world community of Jews has mainly been complicit in this stupidity. What I’m asking for is for MORE Jews to get involved (no not to fill a lecture hall, or a conference centre – enough to fill a football stadium, enough to fill a newspaper) and to be LOUDER about things, and yes Annie you can hear them, of course you can you’re standing next to them. We need them to be loud enough for people not even really interested in Palestinian rights to hear them, because when the blowback comes (and the winds do seem to be picking up) they’ll be the ones who could save not just the Palestinians, but the Jews too.

          Of course this could all be some elaborate subterfuge to disguise my base nature because we all know nobody has ever used one word when they mean another ever.

        • Cliff says:

          Khazar is not a slur.

          It is a historical term.

          It is not analogous to ‘Negro’.

        • seafoid says:

          The term “antisemitism” has abused to the point of meaninglessness. Anyone who disagrees with Zionism is an antisemite.

          It is notable that Israel has made peace both with Germany and the Catholic church, the 2 great vectors of 20th century Jew hatred and now it’s just people like us who are tarred with the slur.

        • tree says:

          Yes, I do. I don’t know any Jew who wishes to be referred to as a “Khazar” and both of us know the whole point is to make a political comment.

          Have you actually asked anyone, or are you simply speaking as the representative of all Jews, as is your wont? As I pointed out, most of the early Zionist Jews in Palestine acknowledged that Ashkenazi Jews had a geneology that different in some ways from the Mizrahi Jews. The “political point” actually goes the other way, by denying the Khazarian input into Ashkenazi geneology, in order to attempt to excuse a foreign element with colonial designs ethnically cleansing the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine. Thus, in exposing the myth, one is correcting history, not just a “political point”.

          If a Nazi German insisted he was of Aryan descent, was it simply a “political point” to correct him? Was it a slur to claim he wasn’t “Aryan”?

        • ecru, lots of them are doing a lot to be very loud, you have to realize they are up against a media that is unfriendly to them. and this isn’t just a get together conference, they plan things, like boycott actions thru church statements and the inaugeration actions and lots of stuff.

          but more importantly ecru, and i hope you internalize this, there are millions of dollars, literally millions invested programing people, americans, to believe the lobby and israel represents most jews. millions. the amount invested into convincing people we (our movement) are fringe is enormous. conversely, recall the vote at the dem convention over jerusalem. it was shocking wasn’t it.

          now visualize this, not with your eyes but with your ears. a hundred thousand people screaming at the top of there lungs in an auditorium vs 100 people screaming thru the most hightech audio sound system known to man. what’s louder? this is what we are up against. they have the media, congress politicians and they have you believing a vanishingly small minority. i have to tell you i do not believe that is correct, especially wrt american jewish youth which there has been a lot written about. they invest buck$ trying to convince us american jews who want this nightmare to end is a vanishingly small minority, you have to start somewhere by having faith they are not.

          so you can go on repeating day after day after day about this ‘vanishingly small minority’ but let me tell you something. wrt calling the Jewish community to account over its responsibility as regards Zionism

          israel is an american problem, not a jewish problem. we did this together, this runaway train has taken on mass proportions and the cost is not going to be paid merely by the jewish community, it’s paid by all of us. so we better own it. the idea this load is supposed to lay solely, or primarily on what you describe as ‘vanishingly small minority’ , and it will be solved by them ‘screaming louder’ is absurd. american jews are 2% of the population. even if 98% of them were screaming bloody murder it wouldn’t be loud enough. not when the other 2% hold all the cards, the media, the megaphone, like adelson/kristol/whoever etc.

          so this whole defeating they can’t do it or they better work harder or what.ever. it’s too much. get out there and do it yourself, if you’re an american. because there have been hella lotta non jewish americans pushing this zionist train for way too long. it’s our responsibility too, it’s a global problem. this: in large part this has only been possible because the Jewish community has been complicit through action and inaction in permitting that conflation to take place.

          all americans have been complicit through action and inaction in permitting that conflation to take place.

          and the reason i asked you, was because it’s better hearing it from you because i knew you made efforts to explain. but rephrasing is better than justification because there is no moral justification for bigotry, ever.

          one more thing, jvp is not jstreet. not by a long shot.

        • hophmi says:

          “the amount invested into convincing people we (our movement) are fringe is enormous. conversely, recall the vote at the dem convention over jerusalem. it was shocking wasn’t it. ”

          You overstate it. You ARE fringe. The polling shows it. It’s not because of the money. It’s been that way for a long, long time. And for the record, it’s not like the pro-Palestinian movement is poor; there are plenty of Arab and Muslim organizations with significant funding. The worst thing you can do for yourself is to convince yourself it’s about money.

          “conversely, recall the vote at the dem convention over jerusalem. it was shocking wasn’t it.”

          If you insist on reading it in a certain way, yes. If you are honest, and acknowledge the truth – that the place was half full and that Israel was not the only thing they were voting on, then it’s not what you say it is.

          “now visualize this, not with your eyes but with your ears. a hundred thousand people screaming at the top of there lungs in an auditorium vs 100 people screaming thru the most hightech audio sound system known to man. ”

          Annie. The polls do not show anything like this. The polls show quite simply that way, way more Americans sympathize with Israel than sympathize with the Palestinians.

          “what’s louder? this is what we are up against. they have the media, congress politicians and they have you believing a vanishingly small minority”

          No, Annie, no one I know of thinks of you as a vanishing minority. You’re a growing minority, but you’re a fringe minority, and in this country, your growth is negligible.

          ” american jews are 2% of the population. even if 98% of them were screaming bloody murder it wouldn’t be loud enough. not when the other 2% hold all the cards, the media, the megaphone, like adelson/kristol/whoever etc. ”

          You’re asserting that American Jews “hold all the cards, the media, the megaphone?” Is that what you believe?

        • lysias says:

          I don’t know any Jew who wishes to be referred to as a “Khazar”

          Well, he’s dead, but I doubt if Arthur Koestler would have objected to being called that.

          As for live Jews, what about that genealogical researcher Elhaik?

        • You’re asserting that American Jews “hold all the cards, the media, the megaphone?” Is that what you believe?

          no i’m not. i’m asserting 2% of american jews hold the cards of the lobby. go reread my statement. that’s why we have a rightwing likud bend in congress when the vast majority of jews are not likud leaning.

          no one I know of thinks of you as a vanishing minority.

          obviously, that’s why reut is on the case, that’s why the goi has declared ‘delegitimization’ the greatest threat to israel. i said to ecru “they have you believing a vanishingly small minority. ”

          You’re a growing minority

          absolutely, we agree on something.

          but you’re a fringe minority, and in this country, your growth is negligible.

          not really, which is why so much is invested in countering us. we have the truth on our side.

          ;)

        • the whole point is to make a political comment.

          right, and the whole point of demanding the conquered ‘acknowledge’ israel as ‘the jewish homeland’ is a political statement too. you want the cake and eat it too. it’s fair game in my book, quit the mythology justification for the state and no one will use this kind of counter political argument.

          but don’t be part of pushing a myth used to ethnically cleanse people off the land and then point your finger when other emphasize european jews don’t come from there. this whole 2000 years, 3000 years 4000 years (or what.ever., it keeps growing) longing to return garbage that gets shoveled into our media constantly. and poor you don’t like the pushback? what a pity. anyway, life goes on. deal with myth, deal with reality.

        • Ecru says:

          @ Annie

          This may come as a surprise, but the world is not the United States.

        • Ecru says:

          @ Annie.

          Look it’s way too early, I’ve already been up for hours and now I have to walk the dog. And it’s raining. So this is just a quick response.

          Americans and Europeans have ALL been complicit in Israel’s actions. But it aint the non-Jews who are gonna pay for Zionism. Shits going to hit the fan, that much is pretty much certain, and when that happens I’d rather people didn’t immediately think “Jews fault” but “well there were all the Jews telling people so we can’t blame them can we.” I’m not on about Jews being solely responsible, but funnily enough for some strange reason I’d really rather they not play their traditional role as scapegoats over this one which is why I want more screaming about things. Not because they alone can fix the mess, but because there’s a strong possibility that they are going to pay a disproportionate price for it when the piper comes a calling. So a distancing strategy that would also have a side effect of helping the situation in Palestine is something I consider a good idea. But then I am an old eccentric.

        • tree says:

          Do you refer to all Muslims as Saudis or Arabs because Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam? I didn’t think so.

          No, but you’ve got the wrong equivalence yet again. Referring to all Muslims as Saudi or Arabs because Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam is equivalent to referring to Israel as the “homeland” of all Jews because its the birthplace of Judaism. That’s exactly why Khazaria is mentioned here, because Israel is not the “historical homeland” of the majority of Jews; its simply the birthplace of Judaism.

        • seafoid says:

          “You overstate it. You ARE fringe. The polling shows it. It’s not because of the money. It’s been that way for a long, long time”

          Sorry dude but Jews were being murdered in the US for being Jewish not that long ago. The love for Israel was bought. Nothing natural about it at all.
          Like Mrs Donald Trump – the money.

          It IS about money and media. It’s about tight narrative control to date.
          The Israel story still barely hangs together in the US but hasbara is dying in the rest of Galut.
          You can’t betray your core moral principles and expect us to buy it indefinitely. Most people are fundamentally decent even if you and the rest of the bots aren’t.

        • lysias says:

          And then there’s Shlomo Sand.

        • ryan-o says:

          @hophmi

          It’s unfortunately human nature to blame a group for the actions of just a few. We see this whenever there is some sort of attack blamed on Muslims, especially after 9/11 and 7/7. It is never valid yet if it does turn into an attack as we have also seen in the US against Muslims, you can not blame a failure to educate. People try to educate you, for example, and it doesn’t seem to have any effect.

          Even if the differences between Palestinians and Zionists are irreconcilable, you have chosen to walk the wrong path. If Israel really had peaceful and altruistic intensions, they would make a unilateral move of their own. Abandon the settlements and return to ’67 lines. Share Jerusalem or at least put it out there and find a way. Apologize to refugees and tell them they will somehow be taken care of. Then if Palestinian leadership refused you would at least have the backing of the entire world who already support all this. Since that is impossible for Israel to accept, it is inevitable that Israel will not exist within the near future.

          This is your only alternative: “defeat” and ceasing to exist. All alternatives lead down this same road with the exception of some sort of a constitutional bi-national compromise which isn’t within the conscious of either side. At least I do not think it is. Personally I prefer a one state solution but it isn’t up to me to decide. The international community isn’t going to allow it either because of the nukes which means either accept 1967 or it will most likely be forced or perhaps even worse. This is not a threat by the way, I’m just stating the most plausible outcome. And I pray for both sides whether you believe me or not.

        • hophmi says:

          “No, but you’ve got the wrong equivalence yet again. Referring to all Muslims as Saudi or Arabs because Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of Islam is equivalent to referring to Israel as the “homeland” of all Jews because its the birthplace of Judaism. That’s exactly why Khazaria is mentioned here, because Israel is not the “historical homeland” of the majority of Jews; its simply the birthplace of Judaism.”

          You refer to Muslims as Muslims. You don’t refer to them by their national origin. That’s the point. You don’t play these games with them.

        • hophmi says:

          “It IS about money and media. It’s about tight narrative control to date.
          The Israel story still barely hangs together in the US but hasbara is dying in the rest of Galut.”

          We can disagree. If you’re right, then the answer is very simple. Put together more money from your Arab friends than we have. It’s certainly available. Organize and use the money to fund a media campaign and to influence elections.

          If I’m right, it won’t work, and Israel will continue to retain its advantage in the US.

    • john h says:

      “must take back being Jewish from Zionism before it’s too late.”

      Hasn’t it already been too late for too long?

      You’re so right, “they really need DESPERATELY to scream out “NOT IN MY NAME!” and keep repeating [it] until they cannot be ignored.”

      • Ecru says:

        “Hasn’t it already been too late for too long?”

        The more realistic part of me regretfully agrees but the part that wants to be optimistic hopes it isn’t. Unfortunately even that optimistic part’s doubtful of how much real hope there actually is because all I see is Zionists refusing to see the train barrelling down the tracks towards them.

        They seem oblivious to the fact that with the creation of Israel, their automatic defence/attack response to ANY criticism, all they’ve done is build a bigger ghetto with higher walls. It really is very sad.

      • MHughes976 says:

        If there is to be freedom of religion it will never be ‘too late to be Jewish’ in the sense of embracing the Jewish religion or identifying with some aspects of its influence.
        What I find is not so much that I mistrust people I meet who turn out to be Jewish but that I expect that they would totally and angrily reject conversation with me if my sympathy with the Palestinians were revealed, even in the mildest terms – or at very least the conversation would freeze. (This has happened.) I don’t so much worry about Jewish culture as about Western culture, which gives Zionism such unquestioning freedom from questioning that Palestinian sympathies seem outlandish.

    • American says:

      ”but more and more I’m seeing REAL antisemitism, in this case the reflexive distrust of Jews and their motives (not swastikas thank you), as a valid response to the overwhelming support Israel receives from the world Jewish population no matter what it does, and the spiteful, vicious attacks Jewish groups and representatives make upon anyone uttering even the mildest criticism of Israel and Zionism. Christian Zionists luckily have little impact on this side of the Atlantic”…….Ecur

      You’re talking about in Europe? I think we need to distinguish though between ‘Real” anti Semitism” and ‘valid’ resentment. I resent the Zionist fifth column in the US, I resent the Israeli infiltration into our government, I am aware that ‘ a segment’ of Jews support this….and that opinion and observation is valid imo.
      But therein lies the problem….how to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak and yet stop the Zionist. Jews-Israel -(Zionism) are so firmly linked that when you start telling the truth about it all some is going to overlap on the Jewish community. Only way I see to not let it go into or promote ‘real’ anti-Semitism ( the ALL Jews AntiS theory) is to align with or incorporate/highlight the Jewish anti Zionist groups and efforts when you are talking about it and citing people or groups opposed to it.
      Not so oddly, I use to get attacked all the time by ziobots for quoting and using “Jewish’ individuals and sources critical of Israel and Zionism…to them that is gentile ‘divide and conquer’ plot aimed at Zionism and Israel.

      • hophmi says:

        “I think we need to distinguish though between ‘Real” anti Semitism” and ‘valid’ resentment.”

        I don’t. I think we should call hatred by its name. I don’t see people walking around saying that we need to distinguish between “real” racism against African-Americans and “valid” resentment caused by affirmative action. It’s all racism.

        “I resent the Zionist fifth column in the US, I resent the Israeli infiltration into our government, ”

        Like most bigots, you’re filled with resentment, probably because of some personal problem or just pure hatred.

        • Cliff says:

          between “real” racism against African-Americans and “valid” resentment caused by affirmative action. It’s all racism.

          What a load of garbage.

          Here’s hophmi being the racist that he is:

          link to mondoweiss.net

          Whatever, loser. It is based on Arab rhetoric of the last 70 years, a long history of the use of terrorism, and the fact that a terrorist group takes part in running the PA.

          Arab rhetoric. I’ll remember that next (which means never, since no anti-Zionist here talks this way) someone says JEW RHETORIC.

          Or conflates all of Zionism with world Jewry (hence, conspiratorial tropes).

          Here is hophmi white-washing Jewish terrorism by saying (more or less) that it’s a historical artifact and nothing more. And that no one outside of MW, ‘cares’ about Irgun.

          Yet, hoppy never hesitates to bring up suicide bombing even though it’s over and done with for 7 years.

          link to mondoweiss.net

          Irgun hasn’t been around in 60 years. Did you learn the past tense in elementary school?

          A non-condemnation condemnation followed by WHITEWASH of Irgun’s existence as a Jewish terrorist group:

          You won’t “shut me up” since I never denied that Irgun perpetrated terrorist attacks. The real question is what exactly you hope to accomplish by repeating “Irgun, Irgun, Irgun.” Are you helping the Palestinians get justice?

          Are you being honest about the Irgun’s history, which is as a tiny group that was out of the mainstream but was basically fighting British imperialism? No. You’re standing up for British imperialism.

          So Irgun was fighting British imperialism, but employed terrorist tactics.

          Terrorist tactics is the most hoppy can stomach. His delicate sensibilities will not allow him to go any further.

          Oh and if we condemn Irgun, we’re supporting British imperialism!

          What a ****ing hypocrite! Jesus Christ.

          There are SO many other examples of hoppy’s racism, bigotry, HYPOCRISY, dishonesty and general HATRED of Arabs and Muslims.

          All within the ideological framework of Zionism to the right of Likud.

          Why Phil has allowed this fascist and perfect example of an Israel Firster to continue commenting (while he regularly breaks the ‘No Nakba denial’ rule and ‘No racism’ rule) is beyond me.

          I’ll be surprised if this comment even makes it through.

        • Cliff says:

          So yea, if you’re a new commentator just glance through hoppy’s comment history.

          All the Zionist hate-mongerers/hypocrites and colonists have their entire comment history recorded so it takes no time at all demonstrating what total liars they are.

          Hoppy is just the best example.

        • hophmi says:

          “So yea, if you’re a new commentator just glance through hoppy’s comment history.”

          Cliff is very hung up on the idea of taking me down. It’s flattering to get all of this attention. Annoying and amusing, but flattering.

          If you’re interested in getting an idea of Cliff’s contribution to the site, you’re welcome to review his many comments. You’ll see that virtually all of them contribute nothing to any discussion and are filled with ad hominem vitriol. All in violation of stated comment rules. Cliff is a great example of a political cultist who could not survive outside of this site.

          There are so many classics, like:

          “You’re a fascist, nut.”

          link to mondoweiss.net

          and the always amusing:

          “In short, I’m too sarcastic for Zionist bottom-feeders.”

          link to mondoweiss.net

          And there is the always reliable no-one-cares-but-me:

          “What do you care about dead Syrians? You’re a Zionist Jew and a settler.”

          link to mondoweiss.net

          and

          “I never thought human beings could be so bleak and apathetic and hypocritical until I began reading Liberal Zionists and Liberal Jews who support Israel’s ‘right to exist.’”

          and then there’s “Cliffy history”

          “The Jews who left the Arab world were not terrorized into doing so.”

          Cliff apparently fancies me because I’m “Phil Weiss’s favorite Zionist troll and has a lengthy comment history full of Holocaust denial type intellectualism.”

          Of course, any claim about someone else’s thinking is always interesting coming from a guy who has complained:

          “Why does **** like this make it through moderation?

          Holocaust denial and antisemitism are censored by this ****ing Jewish supremacist **** gets through every single day and in every single thread. ”

          link to mondoweiss.net

          That’s just the last month (mostly the last four days), but it goes on like that for another 4600 scintillatingly similar comments.

          Are guys like Cliff helpful to your cause, Annie and Phil?

        • hophmi says:

          “What a load of garbage.”

          Yes, a good description of virtually everything you write. Do you have an actual response to the substance of my comparison? Or do you just quote me out of context to responses I make after I’m called a “vile excuse for a human being” by you? link to mondoweiss.net

          Apparently, you are not only incapable of acknowledging that Arab leaders have spoken in fairly nasty terms about the state of Israel in the last 70 years, but you are willing to tar as a racist anyone who has the temerity to point this out as a possible reason Israelis might be reluctant to simply withdraw from the West Bank. Again, in the real world, this say more about YOU than it says about me. Not here, of course, where the rest of the community is here to support you, dear.

          “There are SO many other examples of hoppy’s racism, bigotry, HYPOCRISY, dishonesty and general HATRED of Arabs and Muslims.”

          I object to this constant stream of nonsense and abuse being permitted here. It is just pure nonsense. I am an active member of Jewish-Muslim peace and dialogue groups. I have friends across the political spectrum of every race and religion, including Arabs and Muslims. I have fought repeatedly for the rights of Muslims and Arabs in NY, including on issues like Park 51 and the Khalil Gibran school. I have been relentlessly critical of those IN MY OWN COMMUNITY who have spoken ill of Arabs and Muslims in racial and ethnic terms.

          These comments are ad hominem, baseless, and violative of the rules here. This guy does this over and over and over again, and not just to me. He should be out of here by now under your rules; he contributes virtually nothing here but vitriol. Either enforce the rules or get rid of them, but don’t post them and then ignore them.

          “4. No personal attacks. We encourage spirited, passionate debate, but if you have to resort to vicious personal attack, you’re not advancing the discussion. Stay on the issues. ”

          You are hurting your own movement by allowing guys like Cliff a platform to abuse not just me, but virtually everyone here who dares to disagree with what he says.

        • Cliff says:

          @hoppy

          Nothing I said was racist.

          Nothing I said was bigoted.

          Jews from the Arab world were not terrorized into leaving.

          ‘Zionist Jew’ or ‘Jewish colonist’ is an exact identifier, not a slur.

          Whereas Holocaust-denial intellectuals like you, hoppy, justify Irgun terrorism as ‘fighting British imperialism’.

          You say we’re hung up on condemning Irgun and other Jewish terrorists. And that in doing so, we support British imperialism. And that no one cares about Jewish terrorists.

          LOL

          I have thousands of comments and that’s the ‘worst’ you could find!

          If you haven’t noticed, Zionist trolls mostly comment for a short time on MW and then vanish.

          You’re the only troll who keeps coming back. In other words, while you’re all true believers – you’re the only one who continually posts lies and the same lies over and over.

          Hence, you have a lot of material to cite.

          I mean, Dimadok and OlegR make hit-and-run style comments. They vanish and don’t follow-up.

          If this was your case against me, it’s fair to say you failed miserably.

          Hoppy ends by saying:

          Are guys like Cliff helpful to your cause, Annie and Phil?

          Similarly Hoppy gave us anti-Zionists and post-Zionists ‘advice’ on condemning Jewish terrorism:

          The real question is what exactly you hope to accomplish by repeating “Irgun, Irgun, Irgun.” Are you helping the Palestinians get justice? Are you being honest about the Irgun’s history, which is as a tiny group that was out of the mainstream but was basically fighting British imperialism? No. You’re standing up for British imperialism.

          Does anyone outside of the Mondoweiss community give two bananas about the Irgun? No.

          Everyone just think of how much mileage Zionists get out of the Hamas rockets or the Hamas charter or the abandoned tactic of suicide bombing.

          Palestinian terrorism and militancy has achieved around 1000+ Israeli casualties.

          Israel has killed 1000+ Palestinian CHILDREN alone.

          And yet, while Zionists like hoppy want us to stop condemning Jewish terrorism (because according to him, it doesn’t help us; as if a discussion that arises organically/conversationally must have a solution to the conflict in mind) because Jewish terrorism was morally sound and anti-Imperialistic!

          Actually, I should clarify – ‘terrorist tactics’ or ‘terrorist actions’; because hoppy doesn’t even have the shame to identify the Irgun as a terrorist group. Hence, why he questions our ‘honesty’ in assessing their activities, motivations, etc.

          But he’ll milk suicide bombing, Hamas TV with MEMRI translations, the Hamas Charter, the MUFTI (DEBUNKED A ZILLION TIMES), etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

          So like I said, you’re a hypocrite, a racist and a liar – in addition to being an extreme Jewish nationalist to the right of Likud while whining incessantly about the VAPOUR that is antisemitism and slandering MW as anti-semitic.

        • hophmi says:

          “Nothing I said was racist or bigoted”

          I don’t believe I particularly accused you of that.

          “Jews from the Arab world were not terrorized into leaving.”

          It’s simply inaccurate. There are many Jews who left the Arab world in fear.

          link to jimena.org

          “‘Zionist Jew’ or ‘Jewish colonist’ is an exact identifier, not a slur.”

          Khazar is a slur. You approved of its use.

          “You say we’re hung up on condemning Irgun and other Jewish terrorists. And that in doing so, we support British imperialism. And that no one cares about Jewish terrorists.”

          Well, that goes without saying. You have never explained why you think the Palestinians are justified in fighting against occupation, but the Irgunists were not.

          “I have thousands of comments and that’s the ‘worst’ you could find!”

          I was not about to wade through the years of muck you’ve posted here. Four days worth was enough for me.

          “If you haven’t noticed, Zionist trolls mostly comment for a short time on MW and then vanish.”

          Not me.

          “If this was your case against me, it’s fair to say you failed miserably.”

          My claim against you is that you post little but vitriol that looks like it was written by a deranged teenager. In that claim I succeeded.

          “Everyone just think of how much mileage Zionists get out of the Hamas rockets or the Hamas charter or the abandoned tactic of suicide bombing.”

          Mileage? Yes, we get great “mileage” out of rockets which fall on Israeli kindergartens. That’s true. The question is why you’re OK with that.

          Suicide bombing isn’t an “abandoned tactic.” It’s just an unsuccessful one.

          “Palestinian terrorism and militancy has achieved around 1000+ Israeli casualties.”

          Yes, we know the Palestinians have less weaponry than the Israelis. We also know that Hamas has tried to blow up gas depots and apartment building, which would have caused hundreds, if not thousands, of Israeli casualties.

          “Actually, I should clarify – ‘terrorist tactics’ or ‘terrorist actions’; because hoppy doesn’t even have the shame to identify the Irgun as a terrorist group. ”

          Well, you won’t ID Hamas that way, and they’ve killed many more people through terrorism than Irgun did. In reality, I would call Irgun a terrorist group, but as usual, you ignore the point. Irgun was a tiny group that never represented more than a fringe. Hamas is a mainstream group that rules Gaza and won an election. Ergo, they are different.

          “But he’ll milk suicide bombing, Hamas TV with MEMRI translations, the Hamas Charter, the MUFTI (DEBUNKED A ZILLION TIMES), etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.”

          Well, you ignore them, and the question is why. I think it’s because you think suicide bombing is not a big deal because the casualties are Israelis, and you hate Israelis. For some reason, you talk about MEMRI translations, as if it’s some conspiracy to claim that Hamas broadcasts bad stuff about Jews on its TV stations. No one disputes that they do. It’s the same with the Charter; no one disputes that the Charter talks about the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. And as far as the Mufti – I’m not sure what you mean by “debunked.” The Mufti did associate with Hitler. No one disputes that fact, and unlike your frequent claim, I have never adopted the viewpoint that his views on Nazism were shared by the Palestinian populace. What I have said, and what you always ignore, is that the Mufti’s wartime associations cost the Palestinian people after the war. He was a very bad leader and a very bad man.

          “So like I said, you’re a hypocrite, a racist and a liar ”

          Yet more abuse.

          “in addition to being an extreme Jewish nationalist to the right of Likud”

          Yet more comedy.

        • Are guys like Cliff helpful to your cause, Annie and Phil?

          the same could be asked about you hophmi. the truth of the matter is individuals are usually not bots. they have different voices and express themselves in ways that sometimes are hard to hear. shouldn’t we also ask ourselves how it helps our cause to host comments minimizing the collective terrorism of jewish forces carried out during the nakba(which is ongoing). cliff gave us some examples of that and you ignored it for the most part and proceeded to link to his past statements which frankly, from the both of you, this stuff reminds me of the gotcha threads at dkos.

          but more importantly hops, we could have made sure the original ‘valid’ comment never saw the light of day. that would have avoided the whole conversation. but we didn’t do that because there’s no sense lying about the ideas people have and it’s better to ask for clarification, and try to advance the topic in ways where we can move thru it. as opposed to your technique of using inflammatory accusation link to mondoweiss.net This site has become something more than passive support for antisemitism.

          obviously, there’s no evidence the site ‘supported’ ecru’s idea (which he has since clarified) there was any validity in justifying anti semitism. in fact quite the opposite as evidenced in my first response.

          but i am well aware one of the main goals of this project link to mondoweiss.net
          (when they say “go back to the basics”) is smearing us as anti semites.

          it’s no coincidence in a popular 200 comment thread we’re going to get a push to expand it to 300 and then 400 arguing over anti semitism. it’s the goal: link to mondoweiss.net

          the ad homimen attack is the most powerful tool you’ve got, or so it seems by the amount invested. and the most powerful tool we have is the truth. i hope that addresses your question.

          meanwhile i have implored cliff in the past not to use such inflammatory discourse/insults.

        • hophmi says:

          “but i am well aware one of the main goals of this project link to mondoweiss.net
          (when they say “go back to the basics”) is smearing us as anti semites. ”

          It’s really not. But not everyone argues the same way people argue here, asserting that Jewish leaders in the US are responsible for Iraq, criticizing Judaism as a religion, coddling people who use slurs like Khazar, arguing that Jews monopolize the Holocaust, etc., etc. It’s all quite offensive.

          “the ad homimen attack is the most powerful tool you’ve got, or so it seems by the amount invested”

          Oh please. That’s unfair. I get called racist and bigot much more than I dish it out. I keep to the substance the vast majority of the time.

          “meanwhile i have implored cliff in the past not to use such inflammatory discourse/insults.”

          And clearly, it hasn’t worked.

        • tree says:

          the same could be asked about you hophmi.

          I think hophmi is very helpful to our cause, annie. That’s not his intent, but like many of the other Zionist posters here, he illustrates the problem with Zionism so succinctly.

        • Cliff says:

          I didn’t way anti-imperialism was illegitimate. I said that terrorism is illegitimate.

          The Irgun was a terrorist group.

          They were not fringe. They were mainstream, in spite of lip servic condemnation.

          The Israeli army did the bulk of the ethnic cleansing. They also did the bulk of the raping.

          So fringe, relative to a bunch rapists in the Jewish army pre-Israel is irrelevant.

          They were mainstream and I doubt any Zionist Jew who advocated a Greater Israel, gave a damn about the atrocities.

          Khazar is not a slur.

          Palestinians as the indigenous population have every right to fight against their oppressors – who happen to be the IDF and the settlers. Not some fringe group.

          That doesn’t mean they have a right to suicide bomb.

          You’re so pathetic that you intentionally misread my comments and straw-man.

          As if the issue were anti-imperialism as a catch-all phrase.

          And you did conflate the Palestinians with the mufti. Once again you lie over and over.

        • Donald says:

          “Well, you won’t ID Hamas that way, and they’ve killed many more people through terrorism than Irgun did. In reality, I would call Irgun a terrorist group, but as usual, you ignore the point. Irgun was a tiny group that never represented more than a fringe. Hamas is a mainstream group that rules Gaza and won an election. Ergo, they are different. ”

          It’s true the Irgun was a marginal group–the bulk of the ethnic cleansing in 1948 was done by mainstream Zionist forces.

          This is yet another example of a self-described liberal Zionist trying to make it seem like Zionist terror is only committed by marginal groups, while Palestinian terror is representative. In truth, conflicts over land (quite apart from who has the better claim, which is clearly the Palestinians) nearly always involve atrocities on both sides, and if the outsiders prevail, then they prevailed through massive human rights violations. If there are any exceptions to this, Israel isn’t one of them.

          On the subject of who contributes what, I’ve always thought the best advertisements for anti-Zionism come from the posts of Zionists, both here and in the comments (and some of the front page post) at Open Zion.
          And that’s not snark–I’m dead serious. Listening to the rationalizations and double standards used constantly reminds me of defensive white Southerners that I knew growing up, talking about race relations. The same bad faith, whitewashing, thinly disguised racism (if disguised at all). Exactly what one would expect–when Westerners oppress others and still want to think of themselves as the good guys, there are only so many ways to argue.

        • tree says:

          Well, you won’t ID Hamas that way, and they’ve killed many more people through terrorism than Irgun did.

          Not true. According to Btselem, the number of Israelis killed by Palestinians, including civilians within and outside of the Green Line as well as Israeli security forces, totals 1097 over several decades. Obviously not all of these deaths were committed by Hamas.

          A partial list of terrorism deaths attributed to Irgun alone in the late 30s and into the 1940s stands at 680+. ( The plus indicates several attacks for which the number of fatalities are unknown. )The majority of fatalities were Arab civilians. Many of the Irgun were integrated into the Haganah during the war, and several Irgun leaders became part of the political mainstream in Israel after its independence. To insist that it was simply some marginal and extremist group is to lie. Its attack on Deir Yassin was cleared and coordinated with the Haganah. Its attack on the King David was done at the behest of the Jewish Agency, in order to destroy evidence that the Agency was secretly supporting the terrorist groups.

          An example of a few of the Irgun attacks:

          1937, March 2 Arabs killed on Bat-Yam beach. [12]
          1937, November 14 10 Arabs killed by Irgun units launching attacks around Jerusalem, (“Black Sunday”) [13][14]
          1938, April 12 2 Arabs and 2 British policemen were killed by a bomb in a train in Haifa. [14]
          1938, April 17 1 Arab was killed by a bomb detonated in a cafe in Haifa [14]
          1938, May 17 1 Arab policeman was killed in an attack on a bus in the Jerusalem-Hebron road. [14]
          1938, May 24 3 Arabs were shot and killed in Haifa. [14]
          1938, June 23 2 Arabs were killed near Tel-Aviv. [14]
          1938, June 26 7 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jaffa. [14]
          1938, June 27 1 Arab was killed in the yard of a hospital in Haifa. [14]
          1938, June (late) Unspecified number of Arabs killed by a bomb that was thrown into a crowded Arab market place in Jerusalem. [15]
          1938, July 5 7 Arabs were killed in several shooting attacks in Tel-Aviv. [14]
          1938, July 5 3 Arabs were killed by a bomb detonated in a bus in Jerusalem. [14]
          1938, July 5 1 Arab was killed in another attack in Jerusalem. [14]
          1938, July 6 18 Arabs and 5 Jews were killed by two simultaneous bombs in the Arab melon market in Haifa. More than 60 people were wounded. [14][16][17]
          1938, July 8 4 Arabs were killed by a bomb in Jerusalem. [14]
          1938, July 16 10 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jerusalem. [14]
          1938, July 25 43 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Haifa. [14][18]
          1938, August 26 24 Arabs were killed by a bomb at a marketplace in Jaffa. [14]
          1939, February 27 33 Arabs were killed in multiple attacks, incl. 24 by bomb in Arab market in Suk Quarter of Haifa and 4 by bomb in Arab vegetable market in Jerusalem.

          List of Irgun attacks:
          link to en.wikipedia.org

        • hophmi says:

          link to en.wikipedia.org

          This is the list of Palestinian suicide attacks since 1989. The death toll is 804.

          This does not include other forms of terrorism, including roadside shootings and so on.

          “Many of the Irgun were integrated into the Haganah during the war, and several Irgun leaders became part of the political mainstream in Israel after its independence. To insist that it was simply some marginal and extremist group is to lie. ”

          It was never more than a few thousand people, and its attacks were repeatedly condemned by the Yishuv and by Zionists elsewhere, as was the attack on the King David, the headquarters of the British occupation’s administrative headquarters. That is not the case in Palestine with Hamas. Of course, the Irgun was absorbed into the Haganah. That speaks to the Haganah’s uniting and moderating influence under a single banner, something Fatah was never able to accomplish (and never really tried to accomplish) with Hamas.

        • adele says:

          Hophmi,
          why do you condone the Irgun’s militant attacks against the British occupying power but condemn Hamas’ militant attacks against the Israeli occupying power?

        • Cliff says:

          hoppy says:

          Well, that goes without saying. You have never explained why you think the Palestinians are justified in fighting against occupation, but the Irgunists were not.

          No, you began this by only saying that the Irgun committed ‘terrorist acts’:

          You won’t “shut me up” since I never denied that Irgun perpetrated terrorist attacks. The real question is what exactly you hope to accomplish by repeating “Irgun, Irgun, Irgun.” Are you helping the Palestinians get justice?

          Are you being honest about the Irgun’s history, which is as a tiny group that was out of the mainstream but was basically fighting British imperialism? No. You’re standing up for British imperialism.

          You then implied your opponents were not being ‘honest’ about Irgun’s history.

          Mainly that your opponents failed to acknowledge that Irgun was A) small and B) fighting British imperialism.

          So what is the logical conclusion we could arrive at based on you comments?

          You think the Irgun’s actions were outside the mainstream? They weren’t. The newly-formed Israeli army did the bulk of the ethnic cleansing and rapes. The Jewish terrorist group members were absorbed into the Israeli army after the way.

          There are ribbons and street names and just a general honoring of the Irgun and other Jewish terrorists in Israel. The King David Hotel bombing is a great example and British diplomats and the British government were upset with Israel over their commemoration of the events.

          We were talking about Irgun. To see if you had the capacity to condemn Jewish terrorism with the same vociferousness and righteousness that others condemn suicide bombing or plane hijackings or whatever else.

          Of course, Palestinian terrorism and militancy did not arise out of a vacuum. It rose due to the conflict.

          But there’s not moral justification or high-ground for the actions themselves – blowing up marketplaces and taxis and homes and cafes. That’s what the Jewish terrorist groups did.

          And if they were indeed so ‘fringe’ and ‘small’ – you use these terms to again, whitewash and mitigate – then they would not have been absorbed into the army.

          Mileage? Yes, we get great “mileage” out of rockets which fall on Israeli kindergartens. That’s true. The question is why you’re OK with that.

          Oh, Israeli kindergartens? How terrible! How could I possibly reply to such anti-abortion-like hysterics!

          Well, first those rockets lack proper guidance systems and delivery. They are not a major threat, nor have they ever been a major threat to the safety of Israeli kindergartens. But one rocket that makes it through – is enough.

          So by definition, they are a war crime and Hamas should be held accountable for it’s actions – as well as whoever else is firing them.

          But both sides use violence and it is Israel that uses vastly more and vastly more powerful violence.

          Yes, we know the Palestinians have less weaponry than the Israelis. We also know that Hamas has tried to blow up gas depots and apartment building, which would have caused hundreds, if not thousands, of Israeli casualties.

          There’s already been 1400+ dead Palestinians – mostly civilians – in 2 and half weeks. Operation Cast Lead.

          Israel kills more Palestinians because it can. You should be more critical of Israeli actions rather than Palestinian hypothetical actions.

          But it is the other way around. So while Israel lords over the Palestinians in the OT – controlling their lives directly or indirectly and killing them AT WILL and without reproach – you put the blame on the vapour of Palestinian terrorism.

          You emphasize Israeli kindergartens but it’s a farce. There is no widespread bombing of Israeli kindergartens. There is no comparable Israeli suffering.

          The power dynamic doesn’t imply morality. But that would cut both ways.

          Israel – who does not shy away from butchering Palestinians at will or allowing settlers and the IDF to abuse Palestinians at will – has no moral high-ground because it is stronger.

          The overall point is the legitimacy of the Zionist project versus the rights of the indigenous population.

          There was a Palestinian majority which Jewish terrorism expelled. But if you are of the mindset that hypothetical Palestinian violence outweighs ACTUAL JEWISH ISRAELI ZIONIST violence – then everything I’ve said was (and is) right.

          The Mufti did associate with Hitler. No one disputes that fact, and unlike your frequent claim, I have never adopted the viewpoint that his views on Nazism were shared by the Palestinian populace. What I have said, and what you always ignore, is that the Mufti’s wartime associations cost the Palestinian people after the war. He was a very bad leader and a very bad man.

          As opposed to Begin who was one of the leaders of a Jewish terrorist group.

          Who later became a PM of Israel.

          The reason I say ‘debunked’ is that the Mufti’s role is always overstated by racists like you hoppy.

          You lie here once again. The Palestinians had nothing to do with the Mufti.

          But you blamed them for ‘support for Hitler’.

          Here is a quick rehash of your stream of lies regarding, among other things, the Palestinians and Hitler:

          link to mondoweiss.net

          Hoppy said:

          Why shouldn’t I say Arabs in general? They have united in their hatred of Israel, and the Palestinian movement is an outgrowth of a greater Arab movement, a movement that has time and again tried to commit genocide against the Jews. In 1944, the Mufti organized an unsuccessful chemical attack that would have killed tens of thousands had it been successful. link to wymaninstitute.org

          Not too long ago, Hamas tried to blow up the Pi Gligot gas depot, which would have killed several hundred people at once. link to en.wikipedia.org

          You make bogus accusations of genocide and let the real genocidalists off the hook.

          So hoppy says by reduction:

          Arabs in general hate Israel and want to wipe it off the face of the Earth
          —-> Palestinians are Arabs or an “outgrowth” of the ‘Arab movement’ to destroy Israel
          —-> Palestinians thus want to commit genocide against Israel
          —–> Specifically the Mufti!
          Conclusion: All Arabs to all Palestinians vis a vis THE MUFTI

          Next hoppy lie:

          link to mondoweiss.net

          So does the Holocaust, Arab anti-semitism, Palestinian support for Hitler, the work of the Yishuv to build a democratic state, the use of suicide bombing by Palestinians, the hijacking of airplanes, 9/11, and US foreign policy. These all have consequences as well.

          This was the original ‘all Palestinians are Nazis’ comment made by hoppy.

          He also said the Arab leaders were pro-Nazi, then segued into his Mufti rant.

          From all your Nazi-Arab-Palestinian-Mufti nexus obsession commentary hoppy, it’s OBVIOUS you think that:

          Palestinian terrorism – in spite of killing a fraction of the people Israel has killed – is evil incarnate. (LIE)

          Whereas the Irgun was fighting British imperialism and was a tiny group that meant nothing. (LIE)

          You apply nuance (false nuance) to the Irgun but categorize aspects of Palestinian agency and militancy/terrorism as ‘Nazi’ or ‘Hitler’ or ‘genocidal’.

          In short, you more than just exaggerate Palestinian violence. You overstate the significance of the Mufti and associate him with mainstream Palestinian agency.

          The Mufti was not elected by the Palestinian people and not representative of the Palestinian people. But he was A Palestinian so you SLIPPER SLOPE all of you other LIES onto the entire Palestinian people opportunistically.

          Ending all of your comments thus far with a question posed to Phil and Annie about my ‘usefulness’ is the icing on the cake.

          No one here is ‘useful’ to the Palestinian struggle unless they are honest about the power dynamic, the history of the conflict and if their activism goes beyond more than just typing angry rebuttals to a Zionist [...] troll on MW.

          I donate and follow the conflict. I was in SJP when I was in undergrad and would never dream of getting into these kinds of shouting matchs in real life. I hold the same views but I don’t believe in dialogue with people who have no basic human decency.

          People who look at a lopsided conflict, where the majority population (who had been the majority for thousands of years) was driven out and expelled so that immigrants could take over the land (happening to this day, so not an ‘original sin’) – and come to the conclusion that it’s the indigenous population’s fault, are not worth talking to.

          You accuse Palestinians of antisemitism without complexity. You accuse Palestinians of militancy and terrorism without complexity (unless it’s like, Golda Meir style gotcha comments like, ‘Palestinians are taught to hate, so that’s it, not the occupation, not the daily abuse by Jewish soldiers and Jewish settlers, in a country that calls itself the Jewish State that occupies their land).

          Then you justify Jewish terrorism as being anti-Imperialist and you accuse us of not being honest about the significance of Jewish terrorism or the terrorism charge itself (since it apparently took you YEARS – til now – to finally call Irgun a terrorist organization).

          @Phil and Annie,

          Why do you keep censoring my comments?

          In another thread, user, IL48 ranted about ‘Pallywood’. Why the **** is that allowed through? You guys are absurd in your attempt to ‘paint’ a comments section and then you rail against Zionist censorship.

          Stop breaking your own rules.

        • Philip Weiss says:

          Hophmi, I dont buy this. I read in Koestler Promise and Fulfillment that the Palmach worked closely with the terrorist groups; they knew exactly what they were doing. Hand in glove. The condemnations were lip service. (And I assume there is some of this dynamic now in a population under the imperial heel…)
          Phil

        • hophmi says:

          To say the Palmach worked “hand in glove” with the Irgun is an overstatement. I’m sure there were times that they worked together on common goals. To deny that the Irgun was condemned by Zionists around the world for their use of terrorism is to deny the truth. And to deny that Hamas plays a much, much greater role than the Irgun ever did is also to deny the truth. Hamas occupies a political space now that is equivalent to the space Likud occupied in 1977. But unlike Likud, they have not renounced terrorism, and they have shown no ability to govern democratically. And given their links with Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood, it’s not clear they would govern democratically if the Palestinians got a state.

          Arafat never did anything like what the Haganah did in the Altalena affair. That’s much more than lip service condemnation. And it served the Israelis amazingly well, because the lesson of making sure the state has a monopoly on the use of force and the legitimacy to wield that force is a lesson that has been lost on other Arab states. Thus, you have a mess in Lebanon. Thus, you have a mess in the Palestinian Authority. Thus, you have a mess in Egypt. Etc. That’s no small political accomplishment, and there are many on the hard-right that complain about the Altalena to this day. My sense is if the PA ever went after Hamas in that manner, people here would complain, bitterly.

        • Philip Weiss says:

          Cliff we censor stuff, and I censored some of this post b/c we dont want the thread taken over with intemperate namecalling between you and Hophmi. Phil There are excellent substantive points but intemperate namecalling is a red line for us

        • hophmi says:

          “why do you condone the Irgun’s militant attacks against the British occupying power but condemn Hamas’ militant attacks against the Israeli occupying power?”

          Under your standards, attacking a military facility is not a terrorist act. I’m using your standards.

          I don’t condemn Hamas attacks on Israeli military targets as terrorism. They’re stupid, but not terrorism.

        • Obsidian says:

          @Phil

          “the Palmach worked closely with the terrorist groups; they knew exactly what they were doing. Hand in glove”

          Mmm…Not quite, Phil.

          According to the groundbreaking researches into French Archives by Professor Meir Zamir , the relation between Irgun and Ben Gurion was far from cozy.

          In fact, the Irgun half promised the French that in exchange for military aid, Irgun would launch a coup against Ben Gurion. Ben Gurion and his cronies caught wind of the possible coup and destroyed the (French weapon-laden) Altalena.

          See, link to think-israel.org

          and also Professor Zamir’s, ‘Bid for Altalena’, cited in the abovementioned.

        • Philip Weiss says:

          Of course. But the Altalena came after the founding of the state. Now they had to clean up their act and consolidate their power. Why didn’t they do an Altalena when they heard the Irgun was going to ethnically cleanse JAffa or massacre the residents of Deir Yassin? Because they needed them then.

    • K Renner says:

      I understand where you’re coming from but I don’t agree that “traditional” anti-Semitism is a “valid” response to Israeli abuses and hypocrisy.
      Out of sheer frustration and anger at them, perhaps- and at the sheer level of indifference the “apolitical” or “left wing” members of the “jewish community” (their words) display towards the suffering of Palestinians- but anti-Semitism by itself is pretty inexcusable.
      I mean, some people say that the racist jews in Palestine have a “valid” reason to hate Palestinians or Muslims because of the retaliatory strikes by resistance organizations.
      Some people say that the right wing populist racists in Europe (who all have big hard ones for Israel) have valid reasons to hate all Muslims in Europe and claim that the pathetic lie (and incitement for ethnic cleansing) of “Eurabia” gives validity to anti-Muslim hatred on the continent.

  8. Obsidian says:

    @Mark

    ” I didn’t tell her that I also freelance as a photojournalist.”

    Mark. It’s quite obvious from the subject matter of your posted photos where your political sympathies lay.

    link to demotix.com

    Your admitted lies about visiting the West Bank and your ‘on the fly’ hotel reservations raised too many suspicions and it was decided that Israel doesn’t need you.

    BTW. I’m a Jew and I was strip searched LEAVING Israel after an uneventful two week holiday.
    Afterwards, at the airport lounge, I had a few stiff drinks and I got over it.
    You will too.

    • just says:

      Get over it???

      Are you serious? Have some more drinks.

      I missed the part where Mark was allowed anything — including his meds, his freedom or an explanation for his imprisonment (no lounge with “stiff drinks”, either)

      And your comment that “Israel doesn’t need you” speaks volumes about you, Obsidian.

    • Cliff says:

      @Pudracist

      Who cares if he was going into Israel or into Palestine.

      He was harassed because he was going to take pictures of the occupation perhaps.

      Is that a crime? I guess it is!

      Nothing about the guy is a security threat but you and the other Jewish fascists want him out because he doesn’t agree with you.

      Not out of the conference, or speaking engagement, or venue, or the like. You want the guy out of the entire country.

      Thats what people should attempt to ‘get over’. But a few ‘stiff drinks’ won’t hack it.

      Normal people. Not you. Not Zionists. Normal people do not shrug off fascism with liquor.

      And anyways, who cares if you got strip searched? It probably was nothing like that short description of yours. You’re a Zionist and pro-Jewish colonialism. So it’s not as if they thought you were a threat and harangued you with paranoid questioning.

      They did that to him.

      • AbeBird says:

        The Zionists follow America and Britain. 4% of Israelis deny entry to Britain and US. ….. btw, most of them Muslim Arabs. Only 0.7% Americans deny entry to Israel. Israel is a better democracy!

    • piotr says:

      Dear Obsidian,

      perhaps it escaped your notice, but Mark was not sobbing inconsolably. It is just that Israel is absolutely unique in the frequency of humiliating treatment and worse (like arbitrary denials of admission) at its borders. As your testimony adds to the picture, it is in vast majority of cases utterly pointless. I kind of doubt of Obsidian was “activisitic”. And strip search on the way out? (Comment to dimadok: keeping unfriendly journalists out is not a legitimate goal of a democratic state, but as you have observed, this is not what Israel is achieving. It is simply pointless s…t.)

      Except for Israel, I have experience vigilance of border control on the way out of a country but once, in Russia, while going from St. Petersburg to Helsinki by bus. They look at my passport, found it not to their liking and I was told to wait. After perhaps half an hour an officer came and told me that I have to sign my passport. Oops! But that was about it.

      In Israel, “security” is one of two coexisting state religion, kind of like Buddhism and Shinto in Japan. Religions have their rites that may seem nonsensical to infidels.

      • Obsidian says:

        Dear Piotr,

        I was departing Israel and I got caught in a lie I made to the security girl and I was sent for a strip search. That’s it.

        I’ll even add that most of the other people in the strip search area were Arabs and Africans.

        • seafoid says:

          Good old “Arabs” and “Africans”. Brown people don’t belong in Eli Yishai’s white Shangri la.

        • piotr says:

          And what other country subjects the visitors to all those pointless questions? Islamic Republic of Iran? I do not think so.

          I was in Israel once, and I got a little show what pointless questions are. “Why did you purchased your ticket in Stockholm if you say that you lived in Lund” “I purchased it in Lund” “But here it says in Stockholm” “The main office of the travel agent is in Stockholm” “You say that you visited a university so how is it that you do not have any papers with you” “Why did you cross the border with Denmark so many times” (at that time Sweden was not in EU so I got a passport time for each crossing) etc., all questions repeated 4 times.

          When you leave, the only thing they should care about is if you carry explosives to the plane or not, and that can be easily tested without a strip search.

      • kalithea says:

        Dear Obsidian…

        Classic oxymoron.

      • W.Jones says:

        “once, in Russia, while going from St. Petersburg to Helsinki by bus. They look at my passport, found it not to their liking and I was told to wait. After perhaps half an hour an officer came and told me that I have to sign my passport. Oops!”
        Good story, bro.

    • Ecru says:

      Yes political sympathies with universal human rights. We all know how that’s an existential threat to the Jewish State don’t we. Funny, I wonder if you’d have the same response to somebody who’d documented say the holocaust or the expulsion of Jews from Poland after the war…….somehow I doubt it.

      • Obsidian says:

        Universal human rights?

        Sorry, but disrupting Israeli dance troupes in the middle of a performance reminds me of the brownshirts.

        link to boycottisraelnetwork.net

        I believe this was the demonstration at Sadler’s Well that Mark had been extensively photographing.

        You can argue the ‘occupation’ and human rights till you’re blue in the face, but at the end of the day, Israel and the PA have to sit down, AGAIN, and re-negotiate a permanent solution.

        • kalithea says:

          “Re-negotiate” an evaporated solution with squatters and thieves who are ethnically cleansing Palestinians, destroying property and murdering children. That’s rich!

        • Ecru says:

          Oh dear, oh my, how on earth can a Palestinian complain of having their house demolished, their land seized and their children taken for abuse and torture by the IDF to a bunch of Israeli’s not being permitted to dance in peace? Oh the horror of not being able to perform in the comfort of a wonderfully middle class setting.

          The IDF and Israel does all this to the Palestinians and you compare BDS activists to brownshirts?

          As for the guy photographing a demonstration, is that the same thing as taking part? If so all those people who photographed the Holocaust had better be rounded up and tried for war crimes hadn’t they….. And did you not notice his OTHER photos, other protests, car races etc? Or were you just looking for ANYTHING to justify Israel’s treatment of a foreigner? Don’t worry, the answer’s already pretty obvious.

        • K Renner says:

          and have nothing come of it, like so many times in the past, because no sane person would agree to the terms that the Israeli government sets.

          Actually, one of the only steps forward to peace, which is something that Israelis and the jewish diaspora claim to be in favour of, is to remove all Israeli “soldiers” and “settlers” from the parts of Palestine that still are Palestinian.
          That’d be a good start.

        • W.Jones says:

          Did you know the Israeli Revisionist movement picked those brownshirts as a uniform model?

          And you know, you can argue native Americans’ rights all you want, but at the end of the day the Cherokee on the Trail of Tears had to negotiate a “peace treaty.” Or didn’t they? How sad.

    • eljay says:

      >> BTW. I’m a Jew and I was strip searched LEAVING Israel after an uneventful two week holiday. Afterwards, at the airport lounge, I had a few stiff drinks and I got over it.

      It’s kinda creepy to see what a Zio-supremacist won’t do – and accept and excuse – for his beloved, supremacist “Jewish State”.

      • Obsidian says:

        @eljay

        It’s called airport security.

        • eljay says:

          >> It’s called airport security.

          There’s something wrong with “airport security” that strip-searches law-abiding (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt), departing tourists. And there’s something wrong with anyone who thinks nothing of it.

      • eljay says:

        >> It’s kinda creepy to see what a Zio-supremacist won’t do – and accept and excuse – for his beloved, supremacist “Jewish State”.

        Correction: … will do …

  9. Citizen says:

    Good to know American tax dollars are hard at work keeping any sunlight from entering Israel. Especially since so many Americans, nearly 50%, are on foodstamps, while, per capita, every Israeli gets $5oo.oo per year as subsidy. Of course, since the Israeli Arabs get so much less from their Israeli goverment, it’s more like Israeli Jews get, what, $6oo or $700 dollars annual check from the US? Duh, wouldn’t it be nice for Americans to get this cash aid from their own fellow Americans?

  10. susan1 says:

    Taxi, the Israeli population is much more mixed than you would like others to believe . Half the Israeli population is composed of Jews of European descent ,the other half are descendants of Jews from Arab countries, such as Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, basically Jews native to the Middle East. Also it’s the case that many Israeli Jews now are of mixed Ashkenazi / Arabic Jewish descent, a fact I suspect you are fully aware of , despite your ignorant comments claiming otherwise . Whilst I can see the almost automatic “right of return” for Jews is controversial ,whilst millions of Palestinians remain stateless refugees ( but let’s also bear in mind Israel is a sovereign nation which therefore has the right to determine who gets to settle in the country and who doesn’t), I really wonder how your constant barracking portrayal of Israelis as eastern European ” alien” interlopers, despite the fact that at least HALF the Israeli Jewish population is of middle eastern descent can possibly aid a solution to the I/P conflict. Mondoweiss claims to look honestly at the Middle East from a Jewish perspective, but it is clearly from an “privileged ” Ashkenazi assimilated perspective only. Perhaps we could call it the exercise of White anti-Israel privilege allowed only? Anyway, here is a link to an article in the Palestine Chronicle in which Israeli Jews of Arabic origin and culture speak for themselves : link to palestinechronicle.com

    • pjdude says:

      States have the right to conqueror people and than ethnicly cleanse people because that basicly what your saying with this
      “but let’s also bear in mind Israel is a sovereign nation which therefore has the right to determine who gets to settle in the country and who doesn’t”
      in reference to the palestinians.

    • gamal says:

      “the fact that at least HALF the Israeli Jewish population is of middle eastern descent”, they are 60% of the Jewish population as far as i am aware, does this mean that Muslims in Iraq and Egypt also have national rights in Palestine? or is this a privilege only available to Jews?

      • mondonut says:

        gamal says: …does this mean that Muslims in Iraq and Egypt also have national rights in Palestine? or is this a privilege only available to Jews?
        ========================================
        You should check with the Palestinians as to who they plan offer national rights.

        • gamal says:

          i believe it is Susan1′s generous offer, just want to know how extensive her largesse is with other peoples lives, property and rights. what have Palestinians to do with it? idiot.

          ” you should..” no, no i shouldnt “check with Palestinians” you see, you knew the answer all the time, to this accelerating disaster.

        • susan1 says:

          Gamal, where exactly did I deny the Palestinians right to live in there own homeland Palestine ? Where is the quote? You won’t find it. I was talking about the ethnic make – up of Israeli society as it stands today. I hope you might read my April 1 .35 am comment on this post to understand what I meant in a longer version of my other comment. Perhaps you are just a bit hostile towards the idea that religious , ethnic minorities should have a place in the Middle East. Perhaps you could care less that Jews, especially ones of a Arabic cease to exist in the Middle East. When Christians outside the Middle East show concern for their fellow Christians survival and welfare in Egypt or Israeli mistreatment of Palestinian Christians it is regarded as perfectly natural. When Jews worry that the Middle East might cease to contain any sort of Jewish presence and Jewish life , such concerns are simply ignored or belittled.

      • susan1 says:

        Gamal, Excuse me, but what exactly is your argument with the content of my comment? I am baffled, there was too little content in your comment for me to fully see what you might be trying to get at. I wish you would read my comments more carefully. Also , did you read the article I provided a link to ? To be clear I believe both the Palestinians Arabs, both Christian and Muslim, and Israeli Jews have national rights , the right of self determination in what was, until partition in 1948, Palestine. Neither the Palestinians nor the Israeli Jews have anywhere else to go but what used to be called Palestine. I say that with particular regard to Israeli Jews whose families came from Arab lands and a Arabic culture . Where BUT Israel CAN they now go , if they wish to remain and maintain their religion and Arabic culture in the Middle East where they originated ? Can you tell me where they should go ? Which Arab country could they return too? The Arabic countries aren’t offering Arab Jews a ” right of return” far from it . Even if Arabic Jews were positively welcomed to return by any Arab country, would those Arabic Jews be safe ? Would their physical safety be possible ? How about freedom to take part in those Arab societies openly without having to hide their Jewishness , as the Jews of Lebanon must do ? So , by and large Arabic Jews mostly live in Israel ( also in North African countries of course. ) They have nowhere else to go but a big ghetto in Israel. ==.=== A big concern of mine is the fact that religious and / or ethnic minorities in the Muslim majority Middle East really seem to struggle to survive alongside the Muslim population. Look at what befell the Greek community in Egypt or for that matter the persecution of Christian Copts, or the fact that most of the refugees who have fled Iraq since 2003 are Christian, ( of course , bearing in mind that responsibility for the instability in Iraq since 2003 lies squarely at the feet of the American led invasion and occupation coalition army) Look at the situation in Syria where you could say Sunni Muslims with the aid of Sunni Muslim Arab states are ganging up on the minority Alawites in Syria? Also in Syria , some fighting seems to have broken out between the Kurds and their fellow Arab Syrians. You ask , rhetorically of course, ( seriously? ) if Iraqi and Egyptian Muslims must be allowed national rights in Palestine since Jews of Arabic background in Iraq and Egypt are allowed them in Palestine. I take it this is what you meant, I find that argument to be facetious in the extreme. The WHOLE of the Middle East appears to belong to the Muslims. When people in the media talk about the Middle East they refer to it as Arab Muslim Middle East, the Arab ( Muslim) world, as part of the wider ISLAMIC world so therefore this idea that the Muslims of the Middle east are hard done by, doesn’t sit well == === I also know about the history of the Jews of Iraq, who made up a third of the population of Baghdad in 1917, the jews had a history in Iraq dating back to 597 B.C. In 1947 the Jewish population centred in Baghdad numbered 118,000. In 2013 , only about seven remain. A history of several thousand years of jewish life in Iraq brought to an end. Of course , you might argue it was all the fault of Zionism, and certainly I can see Zionism was a prime mover in destabilising the Jewish Community of Iraq. However, things were going wrong for the Jews of Iraq well before 1948. The rise of ARAB nationalism, not just Jewish nationalism , plus the cynical manipulations and colonial, imperial rivalries of the British and Germans playing out in Iraq after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire also contributed significantly to the plight of Iraq’s Jews. It is reductive to blame it all on Zionism and to say that because of Zionism ,Arabic Jews must be punished for Zionism ,or their history ignored or downplayed by many including on this website which seems to be dominated by the viewpoint of mostly Ashkenazi Jews who are very assimilated and anti- Israel and very much at home in the West. I see it as being rather hypocritical of such a white person or an assimilated anti- Zionist Jew of Ashkenazi background to pontificate on the evils of what they call ” white privilege ” over the native non white Palestinian population , pillorying Israel for it’s treatment of black Jews and other black migrants in Israel , ( come to think of it, why doesn’t Mondoweiss systematically label Ethiopian Jewish Israeli’s as “ALIEN” interlopers in Palestine in just the same way they persistently label European Jewish Israeli’s as “ALIEN” to the Middle East? Surely by MW standards both ethnic varieties of Israeli Jew ought to be crudely labelled and libelled as “interlopers”— must be all that white man’s guilt Mondoweiss suffers from ) while at the SAME TIME systematically IGNORING the opinions and circumstances and presence and the very EXISTENCE of Arabic Jews in the Jewish diaspora and in Israel. I think Mondoweiss would benefit from much more input from non Ashkenazi , Jews of Arabic background. On a website which claims to be an honest investigation into the Middle East from a chiefly JEWISH point of view, why then ,aren’t non Ashkenazi views and experiences heard from more often on Mondoweiss? That was the point, in part ,of my earlier comment on this thread about the whole notion of ” privilege”.

        • Danaa says:

          susan1 – i totally agree – and raise you one. Not only would MW benefit from more input by Mizrahi jews (cf. the “real” jews) but so would israel itself! In general, I am one of those who think that Israel should totally apologize to the Mizrahi descendants for having made false promises and representations to them in carting them off to israel – where there was only a future as second class citizenship awaiting. Israel should also seriously apologize for for ruining things for jews in their arabic homelands of origins by attacking, displacing and expelling the original palestinian inhabitants of palestine, and colonizing their lands, thus inviting retribution upon those who were innocent of this heinous act.

          As well, the blanket apology should include major monetary compensations to the Israeli Mizrahis not only for turning them into a lower caste but for dispossessing and disappearing their culture.

          Why, I should think a few trillion $’s should do plus some serious affirmative action. Now, israel itself won’t have to pay it all by itself – it may be possible to raise the lion share of said trillions from certain illustrious – and generous – hedge fund managers and their deriviative peddler associates from the US. These modern day midases might be receptive to new investment opportunities, and last i checked – there may be several hundred of trillions of dollars in the world wide deriviative market, so a couple of trillions is pocket change! BTW, I stand ready to help administer said compensation funds (having successfully jumped the Cyprus ship before it went down…).

        • libra says:

          susan1, I know you like to think of yourself as someone who thinks for themselves but do you think you could possibly structure your thoughts into paragraphs rather than simply pouring them forth in a stream of consciousness as daunting to navigate as the Niagara Falls?

        • Citizen says:

          @ Danaa

          Good luck getting the American derivative securities players to pay for anything. You didn’t see either the Obama folks or the GOP trying to reinstall Glass-Segall, did you? Why, neither even decided to push for a new securities investment rating system other than the absurd one we have here in USA.

        • talknic says:

          susan1 “Where BUT Israel CAN they now go , if they wish to remain and maintain their religion and Arabic culture in the Middle East where they originated ? “

          So susan1, why are Israeli citizens illegally settling OUTSIDE of Israel in non-Israeli territory? (UNSC res 476)

        • seafoid says:

          “Why then ,aren’t non Ashkenazi views and experiences heard from more often on Mondoweiss?”

          Good question. Perhaps your Guardian link below answers it

          “Today, mizrahim still make up the bulk of Israel’s poor and undereducated; they are often stereotyped in the media as pimps, hustlers and whores; their culture is seen as somewhat inferior; and their accent, although it is the more accurate form of Hebrew, is scorned.”

        • gamal says:

          Charlie Bitton, Naem Giladi formed a chapter of the Black Panther Party in Israel. Those were the days.

    • RoHa says:

      “but let’s also bear in mind Israel is a sovereign nation which therefore has the right to determine who gets to settle in the country and who doesn’t),”

      But let’s bear in mind Nazi Germany is a sovereign nation which therefore has the right to determine who gets to settle in the country and who doesn’t.

      Seriously, why do you Zionists continually fail to see that legality is not the same as morality?

      • Citizen says:

        @ RoHa
        Because Zionists read the legal principles created at Nuremberg to apply only to state conduct adverse to Jews. Odd, those principles were applied ex post facto to German state leaders, and now they are not applied to Israeli state leaders after they’ve become stare decisis.

    • Taxi says:

      susan1,
      Why don’t you give us a respectable link that ascertains that Arab jews are half of the israeli population?

      I see you’re running wild with this same lie on another thread and I’m just wondering why ashkanazim like you wanna hide their numbers behind the Arab jewish population?

      And while you’re at it, do tell us where the israeli ruling elite are from. The ethnicless, peaceful moon, no doubt.

      • susan1 says:

        link to en.wikipedia.org Here you are Taxi! No doubt you will dispute the Wiki leak, but hell, Annie Robbins uses it as a source plus others on the website. see also link to guardian.co.uk So, Taxi what say you NOW? ====== link to monabaker.com

      • susan1 says:

        Taxi, seehttp://www.levantinecenter.org/levantine-review/can-jews-be-arabs also:—http://www.annaqed.com/en/content/show.aspx?link to israelipalestinian.procon.org link to israelipalestinian.procon.org

      • kalithea says:

        As long as they’re Iraqi JEWS, Iranian JEWS, Ethiopian JEWS, but not the Muslim version, right, and especially not ETHNICALLY CLEANSED PALESTINIANS TRYING TO RETURN TO THEIR LAND?

        I think you made your point: JEWS ONLY!

      • seafoid says:

        Yeah. How many Mizrahim have been Israeli Prime Minister ?

        • hophmi says:

          “Yeah. How many Mizrahim have been Israeli Prime Minister ?”

          How many women Presidents have there been in the US?

        • seafoid says:

          How many US presidents have been from West of chicago would be the appropriate question .

          Ashkenazi racism is another aspect of Israel that sucks.

      • crone says:

        susan1 ~ please in the future quote a poster in your post when you are responding after numerous posts… folks don’t know what you’re responding to otherwise…

        [Taxi's post:
        " susan1,
        Why don’t you give us a respectable link that ascertains that Arab jews are half of the israeli population?
        I see you’re running wild with this same lie on another thread and I’m just wondering why ashkanazim like you wanna hide their numbers behind the Arab jewish population?"]

        which leads me to ask – after finding Taxi’s post – just what part of the Wiki cite supports one or more of your statements? Same question wrt Guardian and other link…

        or, are these just a couple of red herrings you tossed in to make it appear you were actually giving cites for your “facts”?

      • sardelapasti says:

        susan1 – What a horrible catalog of murderers and criminals against humanity! A whole prison full.
        PS – What we were discussing (not only Taxi) was the exclusively Russian-German character of the Zionist abomination. This means before the invasion and the rape of Palestine.

    • talknic says:

      @ susan1 “Whilst I can see the almost automatic “right of return” for Jews is controversial”

      It’s the Law of Return and it’s a fallacy in itself. One can’t be returning if one was never there.

      “whilst millions of Palestinians remain stateless refugees ( but let’s also bear in mind Israel is a sovereign nation which therefore has the right to determine who gets to settle in the country and who doesn’t)”

      Problem. Israel has for 64 years also been preventing Palestinians from returning to NON-Israeli territory.

    • kalithea says:

      “( but let’s also bear in mind Israel is a sovereign nation which therefore has the right to determine who gets to settle in the country and who doesn’t)”

      A sovereign nation that ETHNICALLY CLEANSED Palestinians from their land and transferred aliens from Eastern Europe, New Jersey and other places onto that land and now only accepts Jews from anywhere as opposed to Palestinians who lived on that land, worked that land, owned homes on that land and have the right to return to THEIR LAND!

      Half of the population returning may be of Middle Eastern descent but the official policy is return FOR JEW ONLY.

  11. Gestapo!
    What other country anywhere behaves in a similar fashion today?!

    • Clearly a country that has a lot to hide.

      • Obsidian says:

        Last year, Israel received a record number of foreign tourists.
        Nothing to hide there.

        Tourists can and do visit the occupied territories. You don’t even need a ‘special permit’. You just drive there.

        Liars are presumed troublemakers and may be denied entry at Israel’s border crossings.

        • MK_Ultra says:

          Liars are presumed troublemakers and may be denied entry at Israel’s border crossings.

          In other words, the Thought Police gets to decide who goes in and who gets out.

        • “Liars are presumed troublemakers and may be denied entry at Israel’s border crossings.”
          Presumed trouble makers? Fine. Deny them entry but for f&%#s sake! Those methods of interrogation, deliberate humiliation and invasion of privacy by asking them to log on to their facebook and email accounts are beyond ridiculous. You have lost your mind!! And you reflexive defenders of the rogue settler state, there’s no shred of humanity left in your body and soul. You disgust me.

        • Citizen says:

          @ Obsidian

          “You just drive there.”

          LOL. There’s a car show on cable TV, originating in England, in USA that recently showed the main stars of the show driving through many countries in the Middle East in their competitive cars. When they got to Israel, not even the West Bank, everything changed. They were harass by Israeli officials constantly. It became a theme joke on the show.

        • seafoid says:

          “Liars are presumed troublemakers ”

    • just says:

      Exactly my thought, but I thought I should keep it to myself.

      It is Gestapo, and it is as horrible now as it was then.

      Thanks for ‘speaking’ it aloud, tgia.

    • yrn says:

      thankgodimatheist says:
      GESTAPO!
      Denial of entry into the United States – Cat Stevens
      denial of entry into the United States of Sri Lankan-born rapper MIA
      Mohamed al-Kahtani denial of entry into the United States
      Guido Lanza denial of entry into the UK
      Bill O’Reilly denial of entry into the UK
      Dr Zakir Naik denial of entry into the UK
      Chris Brown denial of entry into the UK
      Louis Farakhan denial of entry into the UK
      Mr. Walden Bello, Member of Philippine Parliament, denied entry to Belgium
      RNC Welcoming Committee’s Northeast Tour was denied entry to Canada
      Russell Brand Denied Entry Into Canada

      Well use this word one more time………….

      • eGuard says:

        yrn, you think the Gestapo was about denying entry?

      • Obsidian says:

        @yrn

        Hey! We only talk about Jews on Mondoweiss! Okay?
        Leave everyone else in the world out of it.

        • yrn says:

          Obsidian
          When you say Jews…..
          You mean Mizrahi Jews or Khazar’s like PHILIP WEISS,ANNIE ROBBINS
          ADAM HOROWITZ,ALEX KANE

        • Obsidian says:

          @yrn

          ROFL.

          I forgot that they were Khazars with fiery Turkish blood.

        • sardelapasti says:

          Obnoxious – “We only talk about…”

          You are certainly correct in one thing. While a good number of us expected this place to become a forum for discussing how to fight Zionist criminals like you, we are assisting to its transformation into a discussion place where everyone is debating inane points of etiquette with Zionist propaganda agents like you.

        • Eva Smagacz says:

          Annie Robbins is Jewish? I never thought about it. What relevance does it have?

      • @yrn and Obsidian..Are you that thick? It’s not as much denial of entry (can happen anywhere for various reasons) It’s the way Israelis submit people to interrogation!! To ask one to log on his/her Facebook and email accounts and confiscate cell phones to check the contacts are unheard of in our times! Yes, Gestapo!

      • Djinn says:

        So you equate having drug convictions or convictions for being a violent misogynist shit to being a photographer on a holiday?

      • Keith says:

        YRN- Your point is well taken. Israel, the US, the UK, and Canada are all crypto fascist nations with many things in common.

  12. just says:

    Such a welcoming ‘democracy”.

    It’s the manifestation of a psychotic paranoia borne of the terrible oppression and Occupation of others.

    Pitiful.

    Thank you Mark.

    • ryan-o says:

      Agreed, and so obvious too like asking when he visited the Gaza strip even though he never did. Such are the signs of psychotically paranoid “security” and I fear they are bringing this stateside with the TSA “behavior detection”

  13. ritzl says:

    My take is that Mr. Kerrison was NOT entirely truthful in his responses to his interrogators. But VASTLY more importantly is that it doesn’t matter.

    ANYONE critical of Israel, or with a familial, friendly, collegial, or whatever reason du jour, relationship with some non-descript someone at some point in their past, is an enemy of the [Jewish] state. Especially if they are visiting or simply know, God Forbid, Palestinians, or ugh, Arabs.

    No contact is allowed. Hardly democratic. Hardly a shared value.

    Yes Israel can control its own borders, but FFS can everyone just agree that Israel isn’t controlling only its “own” borders.

    • crone says:

      Israel has “borders”?

      Since when? iirc, they (the State of Israel) have yet to define Israel’s borders…

      I guess when you’re on the move constantly stealing the land of others, it’s best to use natural boundaries… like the sea… well, there are soooo many seas to choose from ~ why not use all of them… no need to settle for one or two or three…

    • lysias says:

      What right do they have to expect truthful answers to such intrusive questions?

  14. eGuard says:

    A bit strange, Mondo, you do not articlise the UK conclusion in the case Ron Fraser against UCU. It killed a lot of false claims of anti-Semitism. Ten.

    link to jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.nl

  15. Basilio says:

    I think it’s sad that he wasn’t allowed entry. It sends the wrong message to tourists. If they don’t want tourists, then they will harm the hotels, restaurants that cater to them.
    You should welcome people not be so quick to find excuses to expel people, but I understand because those guys feel it’s their job to find someone to expel like cops looking for tickets, so it subconsciously effects their decisions.

    • mondonut says:

      Tourist? You actually believe that?

      Like most everything else that is probably just another lie. He lied repeatedly when trying to enter Israel, he is lying when he claims to not know why he was denied entry and he is obviously lying in his claim to just be another innocent tourist.

      • mig says:

        @mondonut :

        Tourist? You actually believe that?

        “Just Because You’re Paranoid, Doesn’t Mean They Aren’t Out To Get You”

      • Cliff says:

        LOL

        Oh so scary!

        He lieeeeed!

        So if an Israeli Jew comes to the US and says they’re visiting the Statue of Liberty but instead go get some chicken wings at Popeye’s, they warrant expulsion and this Zionist CIRCUS and hysteria?

        He takes pictures of the occupation perhaps. Big F-ing Deal.

        You’re a fascist, nut. Admit it at least. Admit that you hate non-Jews. Stop the victimhood act.

      • kalithea says:

        Oh Okaaay…he’s not JUST an innocent tourist; he’s A TOURIST WITH MORE THAN ONE…CAMERA. Scary!

        Zionists are fearful of guys with multiple cameras, say…FIVE? Lol! Sign at Ben Gurion should read: Welcome…to CRAZYLAND.

        Now you can check under the bed, just in case, there’s a hidden CAMERA.

        • mondonut says:

          kalithea says: Oh Okaaay…he’s not JUST an innocent tourist; he’s A TOURIST WITH MORE THAN ONE…CAMERA. Scary!
          ===========================================
          It was never about cameras, and always about the lies. He repeatedly (and poorly) lied to the Israelis, he is lying here at Mondoweiss (I have no idea why I was deported), he lied about being in a prison (holding cell) and I have every reason to believe that he lied about being “just a tourist”.

          Repeatedly lying to the people you are visiting is probably good enough to get someone deported from any country on the planet. This is not about being Pro-Palestinian, Allison Deger is there (still I think?) and the ISM gets in all the time. This is entirely about succeeding in making yourself unwelcome. Congratulations.

      • K Renner says:

        yes, the only tourists Israel likes are those who either are apathetic or who have an obvious hatred of Palestinians/Arabs in general/Islam/Eastern Christianity.

      • Dutch says:

        No, you’re wrong. It’s because Israel has so much to hide that visitors like Mark freak them out. That’s why they treat him like a criminal that ‘lied’ to the State of Israel about his never-used Facebook and mail-account.

        Let’s see it this way: if a nation starts behaving like this, it’s fall is getting close. See it as a last call for some sanity.

      • Basilio says:

        Let me get this straight. You think it’s somehow criminal to have a camera and maybe to take photos in the West Bank? Even if isn’t a true tourist and trying to document things or take pictures of what is happening there how is that exactly wrong? Israel doesn’t want that because Israel wants to be able to have the sanction to do what it wants, and it doesn’t want Europeans reporting what may constitute violations of international law. Anyway, what proof did they or do you have that he was lying? It’s based on an e-mail he said he hardly uses. Israel also denied an Arab American Christian some months entry and to someone who was raised in America. Israel often comes up with excuses to deny people entry. Anyway, the West Bank is not recognized as Israeli territory under international law, so if someone wants to visit the West Bank why should the person be denied that? If Israel is to continue behaving this way. It’s the crazy behavior of Israel that’s encouraging more Israelis of Russian descent and European descent to pack their bags and leave for Europe and the U.S.

        • mondonut says:

          Basilio says: Let me get this straight. You think it’s somehow criminal to have a camera and maybe to take photos in the West Bank?
          ==========================================
          No, of course not. I was not the one that brought up cameras in an attempt to deflect what happened. The problem, as stated repeatedly, was the lying. Which he admits to.

      • ryan-o says:

        Short of reading minds, security has no idea if he is lying. Nobody gives off signs that they are lying. One person’s signs of lying could be another’s signs of being nervous. So okay, he lied when trying to enter and is denied entry. Since it could not be proven that he was lying, he has a legitimate claim.

        Read the exchange and especially pay attention to the “When did you visit the Gaza Strip” question. This is not an interview tactic, to make up a claim and then see if they will answer an affirmative. This is something that a delusional and paranoid person would ask and is proof in itself that they are terrible mind readers and can’t tell if someone is lying.

        • Citizen says:

          @ ryan-o

          “When did you visit the Gaza Strip” question.
          This is kin to the lawyerly tactic made famous with “When did you last beat your wife?”

          It’s a loaded question. It assumes the target has already visited the Gaza Strip. It is a professional type of question, in search of a “gotcha.” It’s not adequately explained by the questioner’s emotive paranoia, if there is any.

        • mondonut says:

          ryan-o says: Short of reading minds, security has no idea if he is lying. Nobody gives off signs that they are lying.
          ================================================
          That is complete nonsense, as any security person (or parent) would tell you. And he had no idea of what else they already knew without divulging.

        • ryan-o says:

          Complete nonsense how so? “as any security person (or parent) would tell you” is a logical fallacy. You can catch people in a lie when they contradict earlier statements but even if your child is blushing and not making eye contact you do not know if they are lying unless you know when your child is lying and those are their signs. And what do you mean by “any security person” ?? Shin Bet? What do they know about security other than delusional paranoia?

          I will admit that my words are literally incorrect because individual people give off individual signs when they are lying. But unless you know them, you have no idea whether they are lying or not. There are no such thing as universal signs. If you believe there is, then you are part of the problem.

        • mondonut says:

          ryan-o April 3, 2013 at 3:42 am in reply to ryan-o
          I will admit that my words are literally incorrect because individual people give off individual signs when they are lying.
          =============================================
          Agreed.

    • yrn says:

      Basilio
      Well he would not be a tourist in Israel….he would not harm any hotel in Israel or a restaurant either, as he would spend all his time in the west bank……

      • Basilio says:

        Actually, he stated he was going to go to the West Bank and what is considered Israeli territory, so he was going to both places. However, the authorities seemed to object to him going to the West Bank. Israel seems to want to deny people from going to th West Bank. Now why is that?

    • K Renner says:

      It sends the right message to tourists. It shows the true nature of the “state”.

  16. IL1948 says:

    The nerve of Israel to refuse entry to a pro-Arab “photojournalist” who admittedly lied to the immigration officials!

    Why don’t you fly into Syria and document some real human rights abuses?

    • kalithea says:

      “pro-Arab “photojournalist”

      How about a pro-Christian photojournalist; a pro-Chinese photojournalist; a pro-gay photojournalist, a pro-Latino photojournalist….

      How about: you imprison people just for being “pro-human rights” and pretend it’s worse elsewhere to mitigate the injustice you do with deflection?

    • K Renner says:

      Last time I checked, shooting unarmed people or detaining children and beating them up are still human rights abuses. So is land theft, and failure to protect “undesirable” elements of a population under military administration.

      And being “Pro Arab”, or more accurately, “Pro Palestinian rights” isn’t a bad thing. It’s the only moral thing to be in this situation.

    • MK_Ultra says:

      Here’s what the “look over, he’s worse than me” Hasbara tactic of deflection does: it shows who you are exactly the same as that one you’re pointing to. Realize that your point is the complete opposite makes it all the more ironic.

    • Accentitude says:

      Bravo. We’ve already covered this but you seem to still be using the 2012 edition of the Idiot’s Guide to Supporting Israel. Page 35, paragraph 6: “When possible, deflect Israel’s actions by pointing to the actions of a neighboring sovereign nation which by comparison will make Israel seem as the most upright, noble, peaceful and progressive nation in the milky way galaxy. When Israel is criticized for its human rights abuses, point to the fact that there are neighboring countries with far worse human rights violations. When Israel is criticized for its nuclear ambiguity, kindly refer to the fact that Iran has nuclear weapons and is threatening to wipe the Jews off the face of the Earth.

      By the way, in your humble expert opinion, does being a “pro-arab” mean being an “anti-israeli”?

    • Basilio says:

      Why is it a crime to be a photojournalist? If he said he was an amateur photo journalist they would have probably deported him. Israel doesn’t support freedom of the press and neither do you, apparently. Do you really think if someone said, “I’m an amateur photographer, journalist” that Israel would let the person in? Many people take pictures when they go somewhere and have blogs and document how people live and what their situation is. There’s no such thing as Syria having real human rights abuses versus Israel not having human rights abuses. The crimes committed in Syria don’t make the crimes committed in Israel correct. If there are no crimes in the West Bank, then why is Israeli intelligence afraid of the guys with cameras? It’s clear that crimes are being committed.

      • Obsidian says:

        @Basilio

        “If he said he was an amateur photo journalist they would have probably deported him.”

        Proof please.
        Please provide an instance of a individual who was deported for saying that they intended to visit the West Bank and take photos.

        Please. Please. Please.

        • tree says:

          Were you not paying attention last year, Obsidian? The Flytilla? People organized to fly into Ben Gurion and truthfully announce that they were intending to visit the West Bank. They were all deported. You want examples? They are numerous.

          link to mondoweiss.net

    • eljay says:

      >> Why don’t you fly into Syria and document some real human rights abuses?

      Well, there you have it, succinctly stated: As far as hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists are concerned,
      - when Jews / Zionists / Israelis commit terrorism and ethnic cleansing, that doesn’t constitute “real human rights abuses”;
      - when Jews / Zionists / Israelis establish an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist state, that doesn’t constitute “real human rights abuses”; and
      - when Jews / Zionists / Israelis maintain and expand that state by means of a 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder, that doesn’t constitute “real human rights abuses”.

      Unreal…

    • adele says:

      When you compare Israel to Syria it doesn’t actually help help your case of defending Israel’s crimes. Abuse is abuse, whether it is done by an occupying power, a tyrannical dictatorship or a democratically elected government.

      What is happening in Syria is tragic and heart-breaking but the impetus for Syria’s current civil war was not based in colonialism and the expropriation of Syrians’ lands, as the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is. One cannot simply make a simple comparative argument when analyzing the circumstances that brought about the individual conflicts. They are two completely different histories, players, causes, motivations, etc. Sadly, the only thing that can be compared is the destruction of families and communities, but that is what happens when governments commit human rights abuses, and Israel is in this category, whether or not its neighbors experience benevolent or tyrannical governments.

  17. RoHa says:

    And a great opportunity to produce some “Israeli Tourism” posters, using those wonderful straplines.

    SPEND A WEEK IN ISRAEL!
    (“Three weeks is too long! No one comes for three weeks to Israel!”
    – Israeli immigration officer.)

    IF YOU HAVEN’T BEEN HERE BEFORE, VISIT ISRAEL!
    (“No one comes to Israel more than once!” – Israeli immigration officer.)

    • kalithea says:

      Here’s some more touristy slogans.:

      IF YOU BELIEVE IN HUMAN RIGHTS FOR ALL, COME VISIT ISRAEL AND SPEND ONE NIGHT FREE IN A BED-BUG INFESTED CELL WITH THE STENCH OF URINE KEEPING YOU AWAKE ALL NIGHT.

      CHRISTIAN CLERGY – JERUSALEM IS THE PLACE FOR YOU, IF YOU DON’T MIND BEING SPIT ON BY ZIONISTS.

      PILGRIM, COME TO THE “HOLY” LAND WHERE YOU CAN WALK IN JESUS’ FOOTSTEPS AND FEEL THE STONE-COLD OPPRESSION ALL AROUND YOU.

      COME VISIT ISRAEL, THE PROMISED LAND, WHERE ONE MAN’S PARADISE IS ANOTHER MAN’S HELL.

      WHERE CAN YOU EXPERIENCE APARTHEID BETTER THAN ON ISRAEL’S OCCUPIED WEST BANK OR IN THE SEASIDE OUTDOOR PRISON CAMP RESORT, GAZA?

      ISRAEL, a truly unforgettable experience that just might leave you traumatized for life, but why not COME, AT YOUR OWN RISK!

      • hophmi says:

        “IF YOU BELIEVE IN HUMAN RIGHTS FOR ALL, COME VISIT ISRAEL AND SPEND ONE NIGHT FREE IN A BED-BUG INFESTED CELL WITH THE STENCH OF URINE KEEPING YOU AWAKE ALL NIGHT.”

        If you believe in human rights for all, go visit Saudi Arabia. Oh wait, they don’t have tourists there.

        “CHRISTIAN CLERGY – JERUSALEM IS THE PLACE FOR YOU, IF YOU DON’T MIND BEING SPIT ON BY ZIONISTS. ”

        Clergy – please go to Iraq – if you can avoid a beheading once you get there.

        “PILGRIM, COME TO THE “HOLY” LAND WHERE YOU CAN WALK IN JESUS’ FOOTSTEPS AND FEEL THE STONE-COLD OPPRESSION ALL AROUND YOU.”

        Want to visit Mecca? SORRY! No non-Muslims allowed.

        “WHERE CAN YOU EXPERIENCE APARTHEID BETTER THAN ON ISRAEL’S OCCUPIED WEST BANK OR IN THE SEASIDE OUTDOOR PRISON CAMP RESORT, GAZA?”

        Try not to get killed by a Hamas rocket while you’re there. Or as Hamas calls it, “getting killed by the Jewish apes and pigs.”

        “ISRAEL, a truly unforgettable experience that just might leave you traumatized for life, but why not COME, AT YOUR OWN RISK!”

        Israel – the place where everyone but the anti-Zionists have a great time.

        • tree says:

          Israel – the place where everyone but the anti-Zionists have a great time.

          Well everyone that counts, right? And Palestinians don’t count, do they, hophmi?

          Kind of like Nazi Germany, where “everyone” but anti-Nazis had a great time.

  18. Accentitude says:

    The Shin Bet are idiots. The only thing they’re good at is beating the crap out of someone else’s kids during “interrogation.”

    Annndddd…..I’m using a tor browser and a whole bunch of daisy chained proxies to write this….

    • yrn says:

      Accentitude
      The Shin Bet are idiots. ????…… no they are not they let in PHILIP WEISS don’t they.

    • ryan-o says:

      Agreed, and it is not just in Israel where the Shin Bet are a problem. They’ve harassed and even beaten people on planes and in Polish hotels, for example. They get away with it too. To be fair, they are not the only armed “security” which accompanies certain kinds of tourists. I remember a housekeeper at a Disney World resort telling us about being harassed at gun point and her superiors telling her to keep quiet about it. I guess that could have been Shin Bet and Israeli tourists too now that I think about it.

  19. Egbert says:

    Israel does want tourists, lots of them, the more the merrier. They just have to be the right sort of tourist – those that are happy to wear blue-tinted spectacles.

  20. pabelmont says:

    Publicize this WIDELY.
    Shut down Israeli tourism entirely.
    If Possible.
    See if anyone says this report is false and anti-semetic (they cannot spell or pronounce) — or anti-emetic.

  21. pabelmont says:

    I love it when they give you a visa and then refuse to honor it. Just fine!
    This should be reprinted on all TRAVEL pages!
    What fun!

    Enjoy a 24-hour whirlwind visit to Israel! Where else can you enjoy, and all at government expense, a tour of Israel’s much-vaunted security aparatus! Enjoy a searching experience! Enjoy international company and literate grafiti, bedbugs no extra charge! And all for one low, low, price! (Air-fare not included).
    Special care for people with medical conditions or who need to use a bathroom more often than once in 6 hours.

  22. Danny_123 says:

    Wow. Unbelievable and believable at the same time.

    This story doesn’t sound like someone visiting a supposedly democratic, progressive and modern country. This sounds like someone visiting a place like North Korea.

    To call Israel’s treatment of Mark disgusting would be an understatement and an exercise in futility.

    Lucky for Barack Hussein Obama that he was POTUS when he visited last month, because if he wasn’t, he’d surely be in that interrogation room before his automatic deportation.

  23. kalithea says:

    “I don’t pretend to know night-time from day, but if I were your God I’d have something to say”

    Zionists have a god? I know Jews believe in God; but Zionists renounced righteousness and sold their souls on behalf of Zionism. You can’t serve two masters.

  24. American says:

    Oh yes Israel and the US, at least US Senate, share the same ‘values—–the value that Jews/Israelis must have Superior Privileges to all world others.
    Better beware zios when the hate catches up with the privileges.

    Getting Israel into the Visa Waiver Program.
    NOTE: The House and Senate bill take very different approaches on this issue. The House bill in effect states that it shall be U.S. policy to include Israel as a Visa Waiver country once it has satisfied the laws governing such a designation. The House also requires a report to Congress from the Secretary of State on “the extent to which Israel satisfies the requirements specified in section 217 of the Immigration and Nationality Act for inclusion in the visa waiver program…and what additional steps, if any, are required in order for Israel to qualify for inclusion in such program.

    ” The Senate bill, in contrast, takes the extraordinary step of seeking to change the current U.S. law to create a special and unique exception for Israel in U.S. immigration law. Under S. 462, Israel would be exempted from the key existing requirement for the Visa Waiver program (a low refusal rate for non-immigrant visas). The Senate language also requires that the Secretary of State certify that Israel “has made every reasonable effort, without jeopardizing the security of the State of Israel, to ensure that reciprocal travel privileges are extended to all United States citizens.” This apparently is an effort to circumvent the problematic Visa Waiver program requirement that participating countries grant “reciprocal privileges to citizens and nationals of the United States.” This is a problem in Israel’s case, due to Israel’s regular and arbitrary denial of entry to U.S. citizens traveling both to Israel and the West Bank and Gaza (in particular U.S. citizens of Arab descent or U.S. citizens viewed as sympathetic to the Palestinians). This is such a serious problem that it is covered in the U.S. official Travel Warning for Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza and has received significant press coverage. ”

    • Citizen says:

      Yeah, the US senate backs Israeli policy to the hilt, always. It’s a major problem for the US and the world outside Israel.

  25. IL1948 says:

    Thank you for publicizing this story. Hopefully it will deter others from trying to lie thier way in to our country.

    There are dozens of people taking pictures and video at checkpoints and army outposts just hoping to catch an IDF soldier in a negative light While responding to provocation.. We don’t need anymore. Pallywood Has plenty of photographers.

    • kalithea says:

      “Hopefully it will deter others from trying to lie thier way in to our country.”

      And what country is OUR country? Aren’t you an American from Illinois?

      Lol! Don’t ya worry, YOUR country (and I’ll presume it’s really Israel) is doing a great job isolating itself spreading MUCH BIGGER LIES!

    • K Renner says:

      Oh, those pesky stones and firecrackers… once made half a dent on your riot shield once. Better go shoot some teenagers with live ammunition and hit some school children with metal sticks and your boots. That will solve the problem.

    • seafoid says:

      “I later discovered that he had used £5.00 of my PAYG credit without asking permission.”

      Trampistan

    • MK_Ultra says:

      There are dozens of people taking pictures and video at checkpoints and army outposts just hoping to catch an IDF soldier in a negative light While responding to provocation.. We don’t need anymore. Pallywood Has plenty of photographers.

      That would certainly explain all those videos of IDF beating up settlers. And occupation is, of course, not provocation. And it is clear that you actually believe that, you have to or you wouldn’t be able to condone that of which you yourselves were the victims of once.

    • W.Jones says:

      So much for being the most democratic country. I take it a journalist who writes critically about the Middle East- as most do- could find another country to get into. And based on what he is saying, he would do it without gen. stimulation.

    • a blah chick says:

      “There are dozens of people taking pictures and video at checkpoints and army outposts just hoping to catch an IDF soldier in a negative light While responding to provocation..”

      If you know that they are trying to provoke you why would respond? Boy those Palestinians are such skillful manipulators! I guess that soldier who was filmed rubbing his junk against an Arab female detainee was provoked too.

    • Sumud says:

      Thank you for publicizing this story. Hopefully it will deter others from trying to lie thier way in to our country.

      Except that occupied Palestine is not “[y]our country” at all, it is the country of Palestine. Israel declared it’s borders again and again in 1948/49 as those of UN181, Israel was admitted to the UN on that basis, and recognised by a large number of countries on that basis, including the US.

      There are dozens of people taking pictures and video at checkpoints and army outposts just hoping to catch an IDF soldier in a negative light While responding to provocation..

      The IDF presence in Palestine is a militarily occupation by force outside Israel’s borders. By definition all IDF action in Palestine is offensive – the occupation is (and can only be) maintained by the constant threat and use of violence. The presence of the IDF in Palestine IS the provocation, and Israel’s decades long serial violations of the Fourth Geneva Convention – it’s responsibility to protect the occupied citizens of Palestine – is only further provocation.

    • talknic says:

      IL1948 “Hopefully it will deter others from trying to lie thier way in to our country”

      C’mon, be fair, Israel has been LYING its way into non-Israeli territory for 64 years. Lying to the UN/USNC, lying to Israeli citizens, lying to the world’s Jews, lying to the rest of the world. Lying its way into other countries using the pass ports of allies.

      “There are dozens of people taking pictures and video at checkpoints and army outposts just hoping to catch an IDF soldier in a negative light While responding to provocation..”

      Of course 64 years of occupation, deceit, theft, dispossession and indiscriminate slaughter isn’t provocation … right?

      “We don’t need anymore”

      “We” need all the help “We” can get to have our homeland state, the state of Israel, live up to its legal responsibilities and obligations and to draw this ghastly episode in our history to a close.

    • Talkback says:

      IL1948 says: “Hopefully it will deter others from trying to lie thier way in to our country. ”

      Like Ben Gurion who was a pseudo traveller who simply overstayed when his visa run out? Or do you mean the majority of Jews who didn’t acquire Palestinian citizenship before 1948?

      “There are dozens of people taking pictures and video at checkpoints and army outposts just hoping to catch an IDF soldier in a negative light.”

      We all know that these photos don’t show reality but are intentionally made from viewpoints and under light conditions which can only be described as antisemitic.

      “Pallywood Has plenty of photographers.”

      Is “Pallywood” the racist Zionist equivalent term to Nazi’s “Judenpresse”?

  26. W.Jones says:

    Wikipedia lists the Mizrahi population in the Isr. State as 1.3 million, making it significantly less than a majority.
    link to en.wikipedia.org
    It adds: “The term Mizrahi is used in Israel in the language of politics, media and some social scientists for Jews from mostly Arab-ruled geographies and adjacent, primarily Muslim-majority countries.”

  27. gamal says:

    For those who are actually interested in their experience, rather than just preying on Mizrahim, for shallow ideological reasons, Ella graces us with her intelligence.

    The Population of Israel/Palestine is overwhelmingly of Arab origin, so what? so is everywhere else in the eastern med and NA, so what?

    Rupture and Return
    A Mizrahi Perspective on the Zionist Discourse (*)

    Ella Shohat (**)

    link to juragentium.org

    • ryan-o says:

      IIRC, early Zionist leaders were pretty divided about settling what they called “Oriental” Jews in Palestine. I’m assuming it was done for mainly demographic-boosting reasons. There was (and still is) a lot of racism directed at them by the mostly European-originating colonists. This is also a part of the “Arab Exodus” narrative that gets suppressed in favor of the “expulsion” propaganda that is still repeated today.

    • tree says:

      There’s also a good book by Rachel Shabi, “We Look Like the Enemy: The Hidden Story of Israel’s Jews from Arab Lands”.

      From the synopsis at Amazon:

      Middle Eastern Jews from Egypt, Morocco, Iraq, Yemen, and other Arab or Muslim lands—“Mizrahis”—make up nearly half of Israel’s population. Yet European or “Ashkenazi” Jews have historically disparaged them for looking like Arabs, speaking Arabic, and bringing with them what was viewed as a “backward” Middle Eastern culture. Journalist Rachel Shabi, who was born in Israel to Iraqi Jews and grew up in England, returned to investigate the subtle discrimination and tense relations that still exist between Mizrahi and Ashkenazi Jews in Israel. She combines historical research, her own family’s story, and the heartfelt oral history of several other Mizrahis to make We Look Like the Enemy a stunning, unforgettable book.

      link to amazon.com

  28. talknic says:

    It’s weird….

    The Jewish Zionist state has for 64 years been in occupation of territories “outside the State of Israel”, slaughtering and dispossessing non-Jews in the process.

    No Israeli Government has ever been legally elected, under a constitution and consecutive State Governments have conspired to deceive their own citizens, lying to them about borders, lying to them about UNGA res 181. Lying to them about occupation.

    It’s secret service has a moto that goes something like “by deceit we will wage war”. In its deceitful wars it has slaughtered countless non-Jews.

    Thru its lies, the Jewish Zionist state has encouraged Israeli citizens to illegally settle in “territories occupied”, never unoccupied and never legally annexed, thereby endangering them and; most bizarrely, sells them non-Israeli territory they’re allegedly ‘returning’ to and which has been illegally acquired by dispossessing and slaughtering non-Jews.

    It ignores UNSC resolutions outlining its obligations under Law, the UN Charter and relevant conventions. Ironically, in order to justify the dispossession and slaughter of non-Jews, it attempts at every step of the way to subvert and circumvent laws, a charter and conventions adopted in large part because of what befell our Jewish fellows under the Nazis

    Mark Kerrison on the other hand attempts to expose the above injustices and deceits in order to prevent any more slaughter and in doing so tells a few harmless lies.

    Up to their necks in elephant sh*te the likes of susan1 ignore all of the illegal, blood shedding former and concentrate only on the harmless later. Goes to show …..

    Brainwashing works….

    • Talkback says:

      talknic says: “It’s weird….

      The Jewish Zionist state has for 64 years been in occupation of territories “outside the State of Israel”, slaughtering and dispossessing non-Jews in the process.”

      In occupation only outside of “Israel”?

      Jews were not only a minority in overall Palestine, but even in the territory recommended by the partition plan. More then half of them weren’t even citizens of Palestine and had not right to self determination in Palestine at all. So how many citizens of Palestine habitually and legally residing in the recommended territory – exercising their right to self determination – voted to live there under a Zionist regime? And when did the majority of them legally transfer any title to the territory to this regime? And to how many of them did this regime transfer its new citizenship as requested by customary international law and partition resolution?

      What’s the real difference between post 67 and post 47?

      • talknic says:

        @Talkback

        Yes, only “outside the State of Israel” as it determined itself and pleaded for recognition :-)

        the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

        Israel claims a right to exist, the majority of the “the comity of nations” has already acknowledged that right as requested. No more, no less. Israel has never legally annexed any territory to its recognized sovereign extent. It is inadmissible to acquire territory by war.

        If we take the word of the Jewish state and its representatives before and after declaration, we can see exactly the deceit perpetrated by the Jewish State’s representatives and how empty the wholly holey olde Hasbara really is

        Re – the Israeli propaganda that: 1) UNGA res was non-binding and 2) the Arabs rejected it. Therefore UNGA Res 181 is irrelevant, 4 months after the Arab State rejection:

        Jewish Agency at the UNSC Friday, 5 March 1948 “As far as the Jewish people are concerned, they have accepted the decision of the United Nations. We regard it as binding… “

        Friday, 19 March 1948 “The setting up of one State was not made conditional upon the setting up of the other State

        Security Council S/PV.271 19 March 1948 “The element of mutuality would not necessarily be a factor, as the document might be signed by one party only.” link to wp.me

        Re- the stupid claim that the Mandate is still in force

        “On May 14, 1948, on the day in which the British Mandate over a (sic) Palestine expired

        Israeli Government statements on occupation

        May 22, 1948 UNSC S/766
        “In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard”

        “international regulations” at the time:

        Laws and Customs of War on Land (Hague IV); October 18, 1907 Art. 42 SECTION III “Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army. The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.”

        and again on occupation

        12 Aug 1948Jerusalem Declared Israel-Occupied City- by Israeli Government Proclamation 12 Aug 1948″

        “What’s the real difference between post 67 and post 47?”

        There’s no numerical reference. Pls point to the relative posts.

  29. mcohen says:

    susan1 says:
    April 1, 2013 at 1:29 pm

    link to monabaker.com

    hey thanks for the link-will add it to my stash…….
    of links.

  30. seafoid says:

    “‘Do you know any Arabs in London?”

    Because it is a crime in zionist law for ANYONE to visit Maroush on the Edgware Road in London for a shawarma. Under no circumstances should anyone who wants to visit Shangri La engage the staff in Ranoush Juice on the Edgware Road in conversation.

    “Have you ever listened to Arab music” is the other question.

    Anyone familiar with Fairuz or Um Kulthowm is obviously an antisemite.

    • gamal says:

      i once hosted a large meeting of Rabbi’s and various acolytes, we fed them with food from Maroush, they went berserk and one Rabbi demanded the name of the place from which we obtained this ambrosial stuff, they all had better be careful next time they visit Israel, i didnt realize it was a loyalty issue, we only fed them vegetables no milk products, khasrut and all, i cooked a large pot of Bulgar which seemed to move them, when i offer to explain what it was they fixed me with an astonished expression and all at once declared we know what it is. i guessed i had inadvertently cooked something they regarded as a national dish or something, its turkish from our perspective, they almost fought over the pastries.

      well those were the days of the three faith forum.

  31. Talkback says:

    “Do you know any Arabs in London?”

    Remember when it was considered a crime to know a Jew in Berlin?

  32. VickiV says:

    To answer some of the questions below, the best practice in entering or leaving Ben Gurion is to lie. When I first travelled there, I was warned to say I was going to visit Jewish friends in Tel Aviv, to not say I was headed to Jerusalem or the West Bank and to be sure to say I had met no Palestinians or visited any Palestinian home. I have been strip searched, subjected to special screening both at the airport and the two checkpoints prior to reaching the main terminal. All with an American passport. I’ve thought about telling the truth about my situation, but know what the result would be, so many years and frequent trips later, I’m attending a bris in Ramat Gan, or a wedding in Tiberias.

    • RoHa says:

      “To answer some of the questions below, the best practice in entering or leaving Ben Gurion is to lie.”

      Seems to me that the best practice is not to go there at all.

    • Gray says:

      After having hitch-hiked, walked etc in & through over 25 countries with nothing like the ordeal described by the author, it seems, somehow normal that “lying” is the de rigueur in a country in which Deception figures so heavily in its Foundation.

      I’m glad you made it through OK where “water-boarding” is considered an aquatic sport.