Jews aren’t special

Middle East
on 139 Comments

There is no doubt that the issue of Judaism’s inextricable interplay with Zionism and the State of Israel, has become a politically polarized one. I will seek to address the very idea of Jewish “specialness”, what it means for various parties – and how it plays out in both the pros and the cons, within the paradigm of Zionism and Israel.

Being “special” as an ethnicity, in our modern day and age, is something that we have collectively come to note as a potentially dangerous issue.

The Oxford Dictionary notes two prime definitions for racism:

1) “Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior” (…)

2) “The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races” (…)

The belief that Jews indeed are “special”, is one that goes all the way back to the biblical idea of “the chosen ones”. And this “choice” is not merely a faith matter per se – it regards THE SEED of Abraham – thus a matter which is inherently ethnic.

Yet the idea that Jews are an ethnically homogeneous lot descending directly from that biblical receiver of the “promise” is highly contested, to say the least. It disregards the element of proselytization, which has been and still is a very active element in Judaism. Even if we were to assume, for argument’s sake, that the Jews ARE ethnically homogeneous, the logical link to the “special” element would inevitably have to incorporate an idea of some genetic blessing by divine decree.

Anyone believing in this “specialness” might be assumed by an outsider (non-Jew) to be a devout religious person. Yet I may surprise some here, by saying that this awareness exists strongly and in no uncertain terms amongst “secular”, “liberal” Jews. I have myself had a conversation with one of these, where it went:

(Her): “Jews are special”.

(Me): “Well, all people are special you know”.

(Her): “All people are special, but Jews are even more special”.

Anyone can be forgiven for having associations to Orwell’s Animal Farm arise in them when reading the last phrase.

So this “specialness”, it is a certain, kind of mystical awareness in the minds of many Jews. The problem is, that the same element that serves as a boosting of one’s own stature in comparison to others, is also the element which serves what is commonly known as Anti-Semitism – that is, that Jews possess an inherently ethnic characteristic which separates them, and will always separate them, from the world around them, thereby never really allowing them integration into the world – and that since their perception of themselves in relation to the world is inherently supremacist, they will always seek to compete with the world over the issue of who dominates whom.

Zionism adopted the idea that Jews will never be able to integrate and assimilate in the world, and that they therefore are bound to be persecuted, eternally. It has made this into a nationalist awareness, generated strongly into the “secular” Jewish constituency as well, accentuating the notion that this was not a matter that Jews could do anything about, as it was essentially an issue outside their control – the gentiles’ pathological anti-Semitism. Thus the argument became ostensibly relevant for all Jews, religious and secular; Zionism was about their very survival.

Zionism thus managed to take the Jewish victimhood idea, and translate it into a nationalist victimhood, considering the Jews a “Jewish nation”. Persecution events of the late 19th century and first half of 20th century seemed to confirm, for those who wished to believe it, that the Jews indeed were special; their persecution and genocide were supposedly the ultimate proof for that. But the conclusion that Jews are special because of their persecution, once again placed the onus of the argument upon external events. If a child is bullied because someone doesn’t like them, for whatever reason, that doesn’t make the child any more or less special. The case of bullying may require attention, it may be regarded as a “special case”, but it’s the case that may be special, not the child victim.

So the victimhood became a part of the “special” case for Jews integrated into Zionism. The victimhood didn’t start there, it goes all the way back to the dawn of Judaism, where it wasn’t even called that. In the celebration of Passover, one of the texts, chanted by religious and secular Jews alike, is, “How is it, that in each generation, they rise upon us to destroy us, and the Lord blessed be his name saves us from their hand”.

But now, with Zionism, this “rescue operation”, which for religious Jews would historically be a matter handled by God, became a manmade act involving military might. Jews would take their own fate into their own hands.

This symbiosis of religious and secular-nationalist convictions would transfer the idea of Jews being “special”, or a “special case”, into the Jewish State – the State of Israel – itself being regarded as “special”, a “special case”.

The conundrum became, how do you make a state have “a place among the nations” (to borrow Benjamin Netanyahu’s book title), whilst continuously reserving it a “special” place, which inevitably calls for special exceptions from the rules that guide the modern collectivity of nations, namely international law? The task became to secure the exception, by advocacy accentuating the victimhood paradigm, so that Israel would be able to manifest its “special needs”, which involve “special” exemptions from compliance with UN resolutions and international treaties. These “exceptions” would be facilitated by the patronage of “special friends” like the USA, who are able to block implementation of such international demands, by their veto power, typically calling for support to ‘Israel’s right to self defense’. The needs and the case of Israel is so “special” that Israel is even allowed to evade scrutiny and treaties regarding nuclear weaponry, which Israel and USA share a common “special” status quo about: “ambiguity.” Israel is allowed to neither confirm nor deny its possession of them.

The conundrum on the political scene regarding Israel is similar to the conundrum having faced Jews before the establishment of the State of Israel, and is one that still faces Jews around the world today:

How do you maintain your “specialness”, whilst not becoming exclusivist?

The answer appears to be very simple, at least to me. Every person wants to be special. Every person has special traits and talents, and the process of developing those talents is one that people benefit personally from, as they apply themselves in society for the inspiration and enlightenment of others. It’s actually a process of positive integration in society. The problem arrives when one begins to build walls to contain the “specialness” and keep others out. To a certain degree, we all need boundaries to keep ourselves safe and contained, but in Israel’s case, its history is actually a robbing of the land and lives of others, denying that they too are special – indeed sometimes denying they even exist. When one does this on behalf of one’s “specialness”, one has to be a very good trick-artist to avoid the backlash that will come when people begin recognizing that this is not that special, that it’s a bullying of others for the sake of one’s own exclusivity. For many decades, Israel has managed to keep at bay the reaction to this violence, and regard the backlash as an expression of the pathological Anti-Semitism, thus turning the reaction around in a propaganda boomerang, to garner further support for its continuing subjugation. But there are signs that indicate that the “anti-Semitism” cry is becoming worn out in its effect, as it has been used so many times and so reflexively. It is not “special” to feel anger, or even hate, towards a bully. This is a very natural reaction, especially if you are one of those being bullied, or, mark this, if you happen to have the emotional capacity to feel empathy with them.

The case of Israel is showing us, in our very age and times, how the response of Jews, informed by their own self-generated self-perception of being “special”, in its extreme of “self-protection”, brings a people to a state of collective madness, where the normal self-regulating mechanisms of questioning the rationality of the collective self-view are rendered useless, as the self-congratulatory and self-protective responses gain a life of their own, and the perceiver is not able to see beyond the mirror of self-deception.

This is a lesson for all Jews, as well as all others. We are not special. Any human can be brought to the abyss of nationalist absolutism and totalitarianism. Any religion can be applied in a way that accentuates the exclusivist ideological stream. Any nation can sink into the nadir of human existence, namely the ideological destruction of other humans. If Nazis were special in that sense, then we must conclude that there is some special ethnic element in Germans, which would thus prohibit Germany from becoming a decent nation. But history proves that no such thing exists. What conditions us most importantly is not our genes, but our societal upbringing, the culture we experience as we grow up and live our lives.

Jews are not bound to be persecuted eternally because of their genes. But if they let that thought haunt them to the degree of uncontrolled survivalist frenzy, they will no doubt be undermining their own future and fulfilling the next doom prophecy by their next lashing out against it.

We need another culture altogether. One that is peaceful, and that means first and foremost not exclusive. The elements and potential of that culture do exist in Judaism, but they have been overwhelmed by the militant element, which has formed a Sparta cult. We need a culture that can really integrate and contribute to peace in a modern world. You can’t do that by pretending you’re a developed nation with a boot on the head of a Palestinian.

139 Responses

  1. German Lefty
    February 21, 2016, 3:57 pm

    Zionism is anti-Semitic!

  2. palar
    February 21, 2016, 7:36 pm

    The Japanese once thought themselves to be superior during the economic crash with all sorts of weird theories coming out.

    One wonders how long this perverted kind of thought will last. If Israel’s politicians think this the country should be booted out of the UN as these ideas completely contradict the UN’s charter. The trouble is that this is difficult to prove as being systematic even though many political and religious leaders in the country openly spout these views.

    No country, race or religion should be granted special exemptions permanently as it merely enhances the views of those who would destroy the country. Israel must accept basic norms if it wants to continue as a country. An Israel which does not is not a country, it is a tyranny.

  3. tokyobk
    February 21, 2016, 7:43 pm

    Of course you are right that Jews are not special, that those who identify as such need to build on the welcoming and integrating traditions, and also about how the claim of specialness is an attempt to cover aggression. Its always this way. The Japanese, for example, saw themselves as the eternal victims of the West as they tried to gobble up much of Asia.

    The feeling of ethnic specialness can be dangerous but in fact such claims do get a pass from the same who decry racism when they are seen as bolstering the wounded pride of a victimised group. Do you follow the responses to racism and Islamophobia? Do they not include a certain amount of talk of specialness from within the communities responding to various forms of prejudice? They do.

    What is your evidence though that Jews as a group feel more special than others? Do you think Bernie Sanders feels Jews are more special. or any number of people involved in I/P that happen to be Jewish (or brought to it because they are Jewish)?So does Bernie cancel out your one friend? Are you sure that a survey of Jews would demonstrate a sense of group superiority more ingrained than other religious and ethnic groups? I am not sure at all. Are you also sure that chosen-ness is any different than feeling belonging to an Ummah that cuts across time and space, or of being saved? I am not sure of that either.

    But, without a doubt, to repeat, the idea of permanent victimhood and therefore special entitlement, that somehow missed what happened to Jews after the war and especially in the US where they became a very integrated and powerful group is madness, and as it plays out in I/P very dangerous madness.

    • kalithea
      February 22, 2016, 1:00 am

      What about blacks? They were brought over from Africa on ships as slaves, so they’re victims too? Aren’t they special or does God consider them lesser?

      Lot’s of people and races have suffered thru the ages but why is it that Jews need to be special, can’t they just be like everyone else? If I suffered a whole lot more than a Jewish person I know, then why is that person special and I’m not so special? Is it because some ancestors suffered, but then it’s this person’s ancestors who should be special and not him; if he didn’t suffer at all?

      Supremacy is racism pure and simple and if Jews get into trouble this time it’ll be their own undoing for associating themselves with that supremacist ideology pretending to represent their security.

      Either we’re all special or nobody’s special – period.

    • kalithea
      February 22, 2016, 1:03 am

      What is your evidence though that Jews as a group feel more special than others?

      Oh, puh-leez!

    • W.Jones
      February 22, 2016, 10:20 am

      A pure secularist could think that the combination of ethnicity as religion could create heightened superiority.

      Usually people believe that their religious community is more holy. When your ethnicity is the same as your religion, it makes the ethnicity itself holy, thus superior.

      I know most Israelis might not think this way, but for a pure secularist, the idea might rub off onto the member of that culture.

      You might want to look at other times in world history when they are combined by other religions.

  4. JWalters
    February 21, 2016, 8:09 pm

    Believing one’s own group is “special” is an arrogant notion that will eventually lead to pissing off the neighbors, quite possibly with good reason.

    • Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 10:35 am

      “Believing one’s own group is “special” is an arrogant notion that will eventually lead to pissing off the neighbors, quite possibly with good reason.”

      There’s some thing much, much more destructive than merely thinking one’s own group is special.
      And that is sacralizing history. That is, believing that human history is brought about by, is is a mark of God’s will.
      Think about it, once you start down that road, you’re f–ked.

      That’s why we are so goddam concerned with “specialness” and “choseness”. It’s us, and our God, against the rest.

      Really lousy odds, to start out with, based on the form-book.

      And we do the hell out of that. Much better off, frankly, sacralizing nature.

  5. gamal
    February 21, 2016, 8:24 pm

    ok consulting the Ahadith

    a bedouin one day approached the Prophet

    “Ya Muhammad” he exclaimed ” Am I a bigot to love my tribe above all others”

    “No” Replied the Prophet ” You are a bigot when you aid your tribe in any injustice against others”

    Thus eternal peace in Dar ul Islam is guaranteed.

    • Froggy
      February 22, 2016, 2:52 pm

      Beautiful.

      • JWalters
        February 22, 2016, 7:35 pm

        And wise.

    • lyn117
      February 22, 2016, 5:15 pm

      I’m not sure what my tribe is, but I don’t love it above all others.

      • gamal
        February 23, 2016, 9:55 am

        “but I don’t love it above all others.”

        I wonder if i might share a small result from the spiritual calculus, “Partial love is hatred”, conditional love also.

        given that in a spiritual analysis we have 3 (its always 3) ways of relating to others ( and everything, its always everything as well), attachment, aversion and indifference, friend, enemy, stranger.

        attachment is related to hope, aversion to fear and indifference to ignorance, but in the spiritual world you don’t freak out and beat yourself for your “sins”, 3 poisons 3 seeds of virtue, that’s the spiritual approach, what could be more fun than engaging with your illusions and ones own astonishing and intricate insanity.

        whatever thoughts or feelings come “neither killing out of fear nor suppressing out of anger”, nor indulging out of craving ,

        routinely and in a disciplined manner falling in love with everything and everyone you interact with,

        unburdened by a mind super heated with opinions and judgements, reveries of the past dreams of the future, free of fear, hope or torpor you become a bit stupid and aimless, borderless, open, like any lover.

        its not much but its the secret wisdom of the Idiots.

  6. eljay
    February 21, 2016, 8:47 pm

    Jew / Jewish is a religion-based identity. A Jew / Jewish person…
    – is no different from;
    – no more special than; and
    – has the same rights and obligations as,
    …a non-Jew / non-Jewish person.

    • Steve Grover
      February 21, 2016, 9:32 pm

      eljay
      the big macher of everything Jewish. I bet he sez L’shana haba b’Yerushalayim every Pesach!

      • Mooser
        February 21, 2016, 11:20 pm

        the big macher of everything Jewish.”

        Oh, look! Another zinger from “Grover”!
        Now, I ask you, who can deny that “Grober” is one special guy?

      • eljay
        February 22, 2016, 7:29 am

        || Steve Grover: eljay the big macher of everything Jewish. … ||

        Macher: big shot; an important person

        Hardly. I guess this is another one of your “zingers”.

        There’s nothing Jewish about the notion that all people are equal and share the same rights and obligations.

        It’s a shame that you and your Zio-supremacist co-collectivists exhibit such revulsion at the notion of equality, and that you prefer anti-Semitically to single out Jews as different from / more special than non-Jews.

      • Mooser
        February 22, 2016, 4:18 pm

        “Macher: big shot; an important person”

        Huh? I thought a “macher” is somebody who has flown faster than the speed of sound. When I was a kid they were big shots. Oh well, language changes, I’ll just have to keep up. Don’t want to be nye kulturny or “L7”

  7. Kay24
    February 21, 2016, 9:05 pm

    Jews are not special, nor are they God’s chosen. Arrogance makes the zionist Jews think they are.

    They are just like the nazis. Look where they are now.

    • Steve Grover
      February 22, 2016, 5:02 pm

      I guess Annie and the other MW clowns must agree with Kay24 that Jews are just like Nazis because they let her post thru.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 22, 2016, 6:09 pm

        if agreeing with a commenter was a moderator’s prerequisite for passing comments at MW it’s likely none of yours would ever make it thru.

      • eljay
        February 22, 2016, 6:23 pm

        || Steve Grover: I guess Annie and the other MW clowns must agree with Kay24 that Jews are just like Nazis because they let her post thru. ||

        It’s hard to know whether…
        – You were so busy working up your “zinger” that you failed to notice that what Kay24 actually wrote is that Zionist Jews – that is, hateful and immoral supremacists like you – are like the Nazis.
        …or…
        – You were able to read and comprehend what she wrote but you thought you’d anti-Semitically conflate all Jews with Zio-supremacists like yourself. (Why do you Zio-supremacists hate Jews so much?)

      • Kris
        February 22, 2016, 7:37 pm

        Try reading more carefully, Grover. Kay24 refers to “the zionist Jews.” The Zionist Jews are just like the Nazis, and maybe even worse, as evidenced by decades of their inhuman cruelty to the Palestinians.

        This caught my attention today: link to electronicintifada.net . Not only do the Israeli Jews destroy Palestinian homes, animal sheds, children’s pets, etc., and steal the belongings of these impoverished families, but they even spray herbicides on fields of spinach, parsley, and peas.

        Slow-motion holocaust.

        Maybe you should take some time to read a few years’ worth of “Today in Palestine” by Kate, here on mondoweiss. You could start with this: link to mondoweiss.net .

      • Kay24
        February 22, 2016, 8:13 pm

        “if agreeing with a commenter was a moderator’s prerequisite for passing comments at MW it’s likely none of yours would ever make it thru. ”

        Annie :))

    • DaBakr
      February 23, 2016, 4:20 pm

      @k

      just to be clear- most recent polling suggest that anywhere from 85%-95% of jews worldwide identify as zionists which would make your statement equating jews with “nazis” apply to the vast majority of jews in the world. this should be noted because of the commenters here rushing to your defense to clarify any misinterpretation by zionist agitators or professional hasbarists that you mean anything other then most jews when you say “zionistJews”

      • talknic
        February 23, 2016, 5:29 pm

        “most recent polling suggest … “

        Link pls thx. One can never trust a Zionist to be truthful

      • eljay
        February 23, 2016, 6:25 pm

        || DaBakr: … most recent polling suggest that anywhere from 85%-95% of jews worldwide identify as zionists … ||

        Wow. It’s a shame that so few Jewish people have chosen not to be hateful and immoral supremacist hypocrites. Much respect to the 5-15%!

        || … which would make your statement equating jews with “nazis” apply to the vast majority of jews in the world. … ||

        You and your co-collectivists have done a bang-up job of anti-Semitically dragging Jews and Judaism into the gutter of hateful and immoral Zio-supremacism.

      • Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 6:54 pm

        “most recent polling suggest that anywhere from 85%-95% of jews worldwide identify as zionists”

        That’s their misfortune. Are we not allowed to think they are wrong?

      • Annie Robbins
        February 23, 2016, 8:14 pm

        dabkr frequently makes ridiculous allegations he can’t source.

        dabkr, please link to your source for this percentage figure. if you can’t just say ‘i can’t but it’s my strong hunch’. thanks.

      • DaBakr
        February 27, 2016, 12:28 am

        @an

        ridiculous. hm. if its so ridiculous then let someone provide a link that doesn’t emanate from mw that disproves anything but the vast majority of jews worldwide* don’t embrace zionism […]

      • Annie Robbins
        February 27, 2016, 1:23 am

        let someone provide a link … that disproves anything

        so that would be a NO, you have nothing to support this ridiculous allegation:

        most recent polling suggest that anywhere from 85%-95% of jews worldwide identify as zionists

        it’s not for us to find a poll to debunk your wishful thinking. and do not change the goal posts to “vast majority of jews”. you said, specifically, “recent polling suggest” 85 – 95% “identify as zionists”. either you can produce the recent polling or you cannot.

      • echinococcus
        February 27, 2016, 1:59 am

        Annie,

        De Bakr is absolutely right in that an overwhelming majority of those who identify themselves as either hereditary/tribal or religious Jews do support Zionism. Cavilling about the exact percentages does not change that fact.
        Ignoring this huge damage of the tribal and racist movement is not making it go away.
        Repeat, it’s not making it go away, and it suggests at least a certain wariness in associating with such people before having verified their personal stance re Zionism.

        here just a random 3-4 items from a loose Google look:
        “90 percent of British Jews support Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state
        link to haaretz.com
        —-
        “Sixty-three percent of respondents felt “very much” or “somewhat” connected to
        Israel. Seventy-five percent agreed that caring about Israel is an important part of
        their Jewish identities.

        Flotilla Incident
        • Seventy-two percent of respondents
        agreed with the official Israeli
        interpretation of the incident, compared
        to 9 percent who agreed with the official
        Turkish interpretation.
        • Sixty-one percent of respondents blamed
        “pro-Palestinian activists” for the incident;
        10 percent blamed Israel. An identical
        question was recently posed to a sample
        of likely U.S. voters. Although U.S. voters
        as a whole tended to blame the activists,
        American Jews were more likely to do so
        (and less likely to blame the Israelis)”

        link to brandeis.edu

        “roughly seven-in-ten Jews said they felt very (32%) or somewhat (37%) emotionally attached to Israel.”
        link to pewforum.org
        —–

        “The poll of over 1,000 American Jews, conducted on May 16 and 17 by Frank Luntz of Frank Luntz Global, on behalf of the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America, shows commitment to Israel and its right to self-defense, and fear for its security.

        Ninety-four percent of respondents said that if Israel “no longer existed tomorrow,” they would feel that was a tragedy, with nearly one in four saying they would consider such an event to be the “biggest tragedy of my lifetime.”

        Eighty-five percent said that Israel is “right to take threats to its existence seriously,” and that Israel’s concerns are not irrational or overstated.”

        link to jpost.com
        ———–

        And the following represent 50% or the total imagined population:
        “Over three-quarters of Israeli Jews believe that either some (37 percent), most (33 percent) or all (8 percent) Arab Israelis support the terror of recent weeks, according to a poll published by Israeli news site Maariv on Thursday”

        link to 972mag.com

      • Annie Robbins
        February 27, 2016, 2:56 am

        echin, your haaretz link about british jews says:

        Interestingly, while 72 percent five years ago described themselves as “Zionist,” in the new survey that is down to 59 percent

        dbkr said

        to be clear-most recent polling suggest that anywhere from 85%-95% of jews worldwide identify as zionists

        he can either provide the link or not — you too. see ya! btw, if you trust a Frank Luntz poll on behalf of the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America (CAMERA) — not sure i think that’s so smart. this is why i asked to see the source.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 27, 2016, 4:09 am

        echin, just thought i’d point out how the pew poll you cited is skewed. first of all from your article your quote was from a past survey. not that it makes that much different but the full quote is:

        About seven-in-ten American Jews (69%) say they are emotionally very attached (30%) or somewhat attached (39%) to Israel. These findings closely resemble results from the last National Jewish Population Survey, conducted in 2000-2001. In that survey, roughly seven-in-ten Jews said they felt very (32%) or somewhat (37%) emotionally attached to Israel.

        directly across from that quote on your link is a graph. note how the two categories of 50+ (50-64 and 65+) are much much higher percentages of both attached and somewhat attached averaging 7-13% more than the responses to everyone under 50.

        now go to page 119 here: link to pewforum.org

        this is the full report and on page 119 is the methodology of how they got the results. they interviewed “3,475 Jewish respondents, including 2,786 Jewish by religion and 689 Jews of no religion.”

        now, look at the graph and note how of those 3,475 people — 2,189 of them were over 50 and while 1,271 of them were between 18 and 49.

        and of the 2,198 who were over 50 — 1,145 of them were over 65.

        and of the 1,271 who were under 50 — 825 were 30-49 yrs and 446 of them were 18-29.

        do you see a pattern here? the largest demographic they polled was over 65, the most pro israel of the demographic according to the results of the poll:

        Attachment to Israel is considerably more prevalent among American Jews 50 and older than among Jews under age 50

        and interestingly, the group least attached to israel, secular jews, they only interviewed 689 vs 2,786 religious jews. (maybe that is normal — i don’t know) but jews of no religion have the least attachment to israel according to the poll.

        so either there are almost twice as many jewish americans over 50 as under, (w/almost 1/2 of them over 65) or the results of this poll are inaccurate. also, according to wiki, “By 2013, the intermarriage rate had risen to 71%.[73] ” link to en.wikipedia.org

        but according to the methodology of the poll, of the 2,125 married people surveyed — 1,489 of them had jewish spouses vs 636 in intermarriages. so i am just wondering where they got their lists of jewish americans from. because it’s not a normal cross section representing jewish american demographics. if the lists were from jewish community centers or synagogues that might impact the results of the polling data. and as an aside, the poll is 3 years old.

      • echinococcus
        February 27, 2016, 3:43 am

        Bah. Of course the number of those who self-identify as “Zionist” will be in steep decline! It has become a cuss. That’s why I cited the numbers in support of “right to exist as Jewish state”, identity privilege, international piracy etc as indicative of their criminal frame of mind, not if they call themselves Zionists. As for the Luntz poll, yes he skews and twists his questions so as to point to the results he wants, but statistically speaking he works correctly –besides, he is the one who is presenting the data on young “Jews” being disaffected, not the other way round.
        Finally, haggling over exact percentages totally misses the point. At issue is our attitude to tribal/racist identity politics. No matter if they call themselves Zionist or non-Zionist-Zionist.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 27, 2016, 4:40 am

        haggling over exact percentages totally misses the point. At issue is our attitude to tribal/racist identity politics.

        not really. i am a numbers person so percentages mean something to me. i don’t like them thrown around casually. i wasn’t haggling w/dbkr over tribal/racist identity anyway. i wanted to see the poll. dabkr frequently makes allegations he can’t source. when some says “to be clear” and mentions polls with specific percentage points, they should be able to friggin source it! this is a person who routinely stuffs his arguments w/faux facts and relies on crutches to make his points – totally unsourced. i don’t like it and it’s perfectly legitimate for anyone to call him on it. i think the demographic is in flux anyway but that is just my opinion. there is a fortune of money being spent on hasbara designed to convince the american public jews think in one lump sum and organized jewry speaks for them.

        and this reminds me, there was some link here to an adl apprentice research paper the other day.. and they were listing the pro israel groups. one of the was from SF. and it’s like pulling teeth to get the member numbers out of those people. they are always speaking for “bay area jews” — and this list said there were only about 1000 members. too late at night i can’t find it now but i will tomorrow. it’s around one of these threads. anyway…there’s too much invested in who represents to jewish community for me to believe their narrative. so when someone gives me a percentage, i want to see where it came from. heck, jvp probably has more members in the bay area than 1000. anyway, check the trajectory of the conversation you entered (late). you can argue all you want –i ain’t chomping on your polls because they do not support 85-95 identifying as zionist. you want to move the goal posts i get that. but that’s not how i got into this conversation. bye.

      • Boomer
        February 27, 2016, 2:17 pm

        re Annie’s analysis of the Pew poll, including this excerpt from her comment:

        ” . . . so either there are almost twice as many jewish americans over 50 as under, (w/almost 1/2 of them over 65) or the results of this poll are inaccurate. . . . ”

        Thanks Annie, this is a good lesson for me. I’ve been accustomed to assuming that Pew polls are reputable; I haven’t typically studied the methodology section. Lesson learned.

      • echinococcus
        March 1, 2016, 3:35 pm

        Annie,

        Sure I get your point with regard to the specific “claims” by the De Bakr.
        It is surely permitted to make an additional point based on whatever you two were discussing, though.
        And it sure isn’t the answer to “Are you a Zionist?” that will allow to identify them, as toxic as the term has become , but their closeness to / importance of “Israel”, or how much they buy official Zionist positions.

  8. Keith
    February 22, 2016, 1:04 am

    JONATHAN OFIR- “How do you maintain your “specialness”, whilst not becoming exclusivist?”

    You don’t. That is why a strong Jewish identity is a good indication of tribalism. Merely self identifying as Jewish quite another matter. Awesome post! I am about to go to bed before going out of town tomorrow and cannot give full scrutiny to this post, however, on a first pass there is almost nothing I disagree with, the one exception regarding proselytization which the author suggest is still very active in Judaism. I disagree. Initially it was, however, confronted with competion from Christianity and Islam, Judaism abandoned the masses and became the religion of exclusivist tribal nomads who became the town to the peasant country. Other than that, his post is very consistent with my evaluation of the situation.

    JONATHAN OFIR- “We need another culture altogether. One that is peaceful, and that means first and foremost not exclusive.”

    “First and foremost not exclusive.” Exactly. And this is what I have been saying again and again. Allow me to quote Israel Shahak one more time. “Therfore, the real test facing both Israeli and diaspora Jews is the test of their self-criticism which must include the critique of the Jewish past. The most important part of such a critique must be a detailed and honest confrontation of the Jewish attitude to non-Jews.” (p103, “Jewish History, Jewish Religion, Israel Shahak)

    • Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 10:46 am

      ” The most important part of such a critique must be a detailed and honest confrontation of the Jewish attitude to non-Jews.”

      That’s right! We need to find out once and for all who God loves best! And none of this “Let’s-call-it-a-tie-and-go-home” nonsense. That’s not real!

      • eljay
        February 22, 2016, 11:26 am

        || Mooser: … We need to find out once and for all who God loves best! … ||

        By…
        – encouraging Jewish citizens of countries around the world to pledge their loyalty to the “Jewish State”;
        – urging Jewish citizens of countries around the world to abandon their actual homelands and “return” to the “Jewish State”;
        – conveniently wrapping a wall around the “Jewish State” (fish in a barrel, anyone?); and
        – refusing to do anything other than continue committing (war) crimes on behalf of “the Jewish people” and the “Jewish State”,
        …Zio-supremacists are doing their part to make sure Jews can’t possibly win…I mean, can’t possibly lose this bet.

        Why, I keep wondering, do Zio-supremacists hate Jews so much?!

  9. kalithea
    February 22, 2016, 1:05 am

    One more thing I’d add to this article: It’s good to recognize what stops one from evolving; disassociate from it and move on. In the case of Jews: Zionism.

  10. Talkback
    February 22, 2016, 10:24 am

    Pathological narcissim always makes me laugh.

  11. Misterioso
    February 22, 2016, 10:32 am

    For the record:

    To quote Polish born David Ben-Gurion (nee, David Gruen): “‘race’ does not unite Jewry since the ancient people dissipated after so much dispersion.” (Philippe de Saint Robert, Le Jeu de la France en Mediteranee , 1970, p.182)

  12. hophmi
    February 22, 2016, 10:42 am

    “So this “specialness”, it is a certain, kind of mystical awareness in the minds of many Jews. The problem is, that the same element that serves as a boosting of one’s own stature in comparison to others, is also the element which serves what is commonly known as Anti-Semitism – that is, that Jews possess an inherently ethnic characteristic which separates them, and will always separate them, from the world around them, thereby never really allowing them integration into the world – and that since their perception of themselves in relation to the world is inherently supremacist, they will always seek to compete with the world over the issue of who dominates whom.”

    Oh please. Yet another accusation here at Mondoweiss blaming Jews for the hatred directed toward them. What bullshit. What bigotry.

    • Kris
      February 22, 2016, 11:26 am

      @hophmi: “Oh please. Yet another accusation here at Mondoweiss blaming Jews for the hatred directed toward them. What bullshit. What bigotry.

      You don’t think that “Jews possess an inherently ethnic characteristic” that makes everyone else (supposedly) hate them? You have always denied that the behavior of some Jews might be what antagonizes non-Jews. What IS there besides the mysterious characteristic or the behavior? How do you explain “the hatred directed toward” Jews?

      • DaBakr
        February 22, 2016, 1:19 pm

        @k
        mediocre attempt to justify the use of stereotypes. you can do better

      • hophmi
        February 23, 2016, 10:20 am

        Why the hell do I as a Jew have to explain the hatred directed toward my people? Do you ask black people why people hate them? Hispanics? Muslims?

    • amigo
      February 22, 2016, 12:32 pm

      Does anyone have God,s , (s—t , am I allowed to write that) e,mail address or web site.Does it have a FAQ section.I have a few.

      Boss,

      Are Jews really your bestest chosen ones.They claim they are.Can you confirm through post on MW.

      Mind telling us why ??.

      Have you checked in with your little peaches lately and seen what many of them are up to ,in your name.They are breaking all the rules you gave them.

      Don,t take this personal , but you are a lousy judge of character.

      • Froggy
        February 22, 2016, 3:04 pm

        -LOL- I do love the Irish sense of humour.

      • jon s
        February 22, 2016, 4:28 pm

        amigo,

        You can write to God here:
        link to notetogod-app.com

      • Froggy
        February 22, 2016, 5:11 pm

        jon s :: “link to notetogod-app.com”

        “The Petek Le’Elohim Group (Message To God) is a group that sells mailing services to holy places.”

        So these Jews charge for a service which consists of their delivering messages to God????

        Can people use the Petek Le’Elohim Group service and send a message to God, postage due?

        I’ll say a Hail Mary and remind jon s that prayers are free at point of delivery… kinda like the NHS.

      • RoHa
        February 22, 2016, 6:43 pm

        Will God write back?

    • talknic
      February 22, 2016, 5:21 pm

      @ hophmi ““So this “specialness”, it is a certain, kind of mystical awareness in the minds of many Jews. The problem is, that the same element that serves as a boosting of one’s own stature in comparison to others, is also the element which serves what is commonly known as Anti-Semitism – that is, that Jews possess an inherently ethnic characteristic which separates them, and will always separate them, from the world around them, thereby never really allowing them integration into the world”

      Seems so link to google.com.au

      “What bullshit. What bigotry”

      Indeed. Say, why don’t you go bitch to Jewish educators

      • jon s
        February 23, 2016, 1:01 am

        I was once told that God answers every prayer
        .
        Although sometimes the answer is “no”.

      • Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 11:11 am

        “I was once told that God answers every prayer
        .Although sometimes the answer is “no”.

        That’s right, “Jon s” “Dear God, let them believe there was a terrorist attack, and not an innocent man murdered”

        But hey, let’s get things straight here, “Jon s”. When the Jews asked God for Palestine, He started screaming “yes, yes, yes” like something out of a porno-flic, right?

      • eljay
        February 23, 2016, 11:47 am

        || jon s: I was once told that God answers every prayer
        .
        Although sometimes the answer is “no”. ||

        Jews: Dear God, please intervene to save us from oppression and slaughter and genocide.
        God: No.
        Jews: Oh. :-(

        Zio-supremacist Jews: Dear God, please intervene to help us commit (war) crimes, establish a “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine, and then commit more (war) crimes.
        God: Now you’re talkin’!
        Zio-supremacist Jews: Woo-hoo!! :-)

      • Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 1:14 pm

        “God: Now you’re talkin’!”

        Of course! I guess it’s just a matter of approaching God with a win-win proposition. And then you can’t lose!
        God gets what he wants (descriptions of just what God wants to do to our enemies available on request) and we get what we deserve.

      • Elisabeth
        February 25, 2016, 4:57 am

        When the Jews asked God for Palestine, He started screaming “yes, yes, yes” like something out of a porno-flic, right?

        The funniest description ever.

      • Mooser
        February 25, 2016, 3:27 pm

        Elisabeth, “Jon s” knows that God is on his side.
        And what more does He need?

      • Citizen
        February 26, 2016, 11:04 am

        Gott Ist Mit Uns

    • lyn117
      February 22, 2016, 5:24 pm

      No, that’s not what Ofir said. He said the anti-semitism by non-Jews and Judeo-supremacism by Jews arise from the same element [of human culture, I guess]. He did not say either causes the other.

      I don’t expect logic from Zionists, of course. I do expect Orwellian twists of language and perversion of what people say to serve Zionist propaganda. No disappointment here.

  13. Mooser
    February 22, 2016, 10:43 am

    “Jews are not bound to be persecuted eternally because of their genes.”

    Don’t I know it. For a while, I thought everybody wanted to get into my pants, but that passed. I was waxing Roth at the time, tho.

    • Citizen
      February 26, 2016, 11:08 am

      Your old skinny jeans? And now there’s nothing between you and us except a thin slip of gaberdine?

  14. rugal_b
    February 22, 2016, 11:13 am

    Uh what the heck is this author going on about? The cultureless Jews in Israel are so because of deliberate deculturization that was done by the early Zionist leaders in order to maximize the indoctrination of their ideology on the target Jewish population.

    This is exactly what happened to Muslims in Soviet republics with Communism, and what is happening in the USA among European Americans with white supremacism. Ask any average white American what is her or his culture, and that person will most likely describe cultural practices that are not peaceful or inclusive or positive, with elements of anti-blackness, anti-indigeinity, anti-non Christian, anti-feminist and much more. Most of these can be directly traced to the white supremacist ideology that formed the basis of white American culture since its inception.

    As for Jews specifically, how would the Author explain unapolegically proud Jewish groups such as Jewish Voice for Peace, Jews for Palestine, True Torah Jews etc, all who carry huge weight within the community and are extremely well-respected among the wider multifaith, multicultural peoples in the US and globally? Are these peoples not as peaceful, progressive, inclusive, culturally sophisticated and refined as any other groups in the country? Wtf is this article saying? That the Zionists were right all along and Jews are inherently problematic peoples that should either assimilate or piss off somewhere people cant see them?

    Does the author even know there were Jewish Palestinians, and Jewish Moroccans, Jewish Persians, Jewish Indians…all that were highly cultured with their own languages, literature and poetry, social and economic systems? Seriously, the writer sounds like a bitter ex-Zionist ignorantly venting against his indoctrinations than a serious person aiming to help his fellow Jews. My advice to the author is seriously, go and hang around with real leftist Jews, join groups such as JVP and educate yourself.

    • Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 4:07 pm

      ” The cultureless Jews in Israel are so because of deliberate deculturization that was done by the early Zionist leaders in order to maximize the indoctrination of their ideology on the target Jewish population.”

      Oh, those awful white-supremacist Zionist leaders, de-culturing that poor “target Jewish population”! The victims of “Zionist ideology”, you see.

      Okay, we are going past the capabilities of the reciprocating engine. “Rugal b” must be turbine-powered! He works in the 15-25k RPM range!

    • hophmi
      February 23, 2016, 10:29 am

      “The cultureless Jews in Israel”

      Cultureless? link to en.wikipedia.org

      • Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 1:17 pm

        “The cultureless Jews in Israel”

        Yup, that culture disappeared like a carton of Dannon Yogurt hit by the buckshot from a 12 gauge!

      • Eva Smagacz
        February 27, 2016, 6:07 am

        “Yup, that culture disappeared like a carton of Dannon Yogurt hit by the buckshot from a 12 gauge!”

        The remaining splatter is called “Israeli-Hebrew culture”:

        Phil Weiss: More on the lousy public sculpture in Israel and its colonies

        link to mondoweiss.net

      • rugal_b
        February 27, 2016, 9:33 am

        By cultureless, I mean people who have been completely indoctrinated with capitalistic thoughts and lifestyle. Whatever “culture” Israel’s try to promote are capitalistic imitation of a culture, developed from a thoroughly synthetic process. This is not unique to Israel of course, but is the case in most capitalistic nation-states. In plainer terms, Israeli culture is fake, American culture is fake, Australian culture is fake etc..they are simply imitation of the real thing to preserve the capitalist power structure and ensure the populace are kept well in control. Examples of fake capitalist-derived cultures – Modern Israeli (Jewish) culture, American (white) culture, Australian culture, most of the Western European culture.

        Because these are mostly intentionally created and indoctrinated upon the populace in order to preserve the capitalist social structure, these “cultures” are far more inferior than organically derived cultures, such as those in Palestine, Morocco, Samoa, black America, etc. This why the ruling class of the nations with fake cultures are extremely paranoid of introducing organic cultures into their population, because people will start to see how bad they have it, and will likely to develop anti-establishment thoughts as a reaction.

        As a case study, if we look at the leftist ant-Zionist movements in israel, many started to become activists within this field after gaining exposure to the Palestinian people and their culture from which they were able to objectively assess the validity of the anti-Arab sentiments being pushed by the Israeli establishment. People who were brought up in a Israeli culture, whatever that means, began to reject it once they recognize how fake it is, compared to the Palestinians and Arabs surrounding them. In turn, these people started to look into the pre-Israel roots and try to embrace their ancestral cultures, such as Moroccan, Yemenite, Persian etc which they find to be much more fulfilling and enriching…exactly what a culture is supposed to do!

      • Mooser
        February 27, 2016, 1:02 pm

        “By cultureless, I mean people…”

        Run! This guy is spinning so fast, and typing so hard, he could very well cause a logorrhea cyclone or tornado!

        Oh, BTW, “rugal b” did you ever explain what you meant by “Jewish self-hatred” and “internalized anti-semitism”?
        Remember that? You know, all the afflictions Phil Weiss suffers from?
        I mean, here you are, typing away at his blog. Do you feel you owe some kind of an explanation, or are you “educating” Phil about himself?

      • YoniFalic
        February 27, 2016, 3:10 pm

        In re rugal_b’s rant on culture (or perhaps authenticity would be a better term), Heidegger could not have said it better in his proto-Nazi and Nazi days.

      • YoniFalic
        February 27, 2016, 3:32 pm

        BTW, the culture of Jewish Moroccans and that of Muslim Moroccans were indistinguishable except for some utterly insignificant religious elements until Jewish Moroccans began to assimilate to imperial French modern capitalistic culture.

      • rugal_b
        February 28, 2016, 3:48 am

        Yonifalic why bring the friggin Nazis into this? How ridiculous and obviously derailing. Like you said afterwards, there is little difference between Jewish and Muslim Moroccan culture, because they developed in synthesis organically through thousands of years of coexistence. No one tried to create it, unlike white culture in the US and Canada or “Jewish” culture in Israel which was strenuously developed and refined by the ruling class for their own gain. White culture is being anti-black, anti-communist, anti-feminist, anti-spirituality, all traits that conveniently allowed the US to be ruled by sociopaths and crooks ever since its inception.

      • YoniFalic
        February 28, 2016, 1:33 pm

        Note the distortion. Judaism and Islam are just superficial grafts onto the underlying pagan culture of native Moroccans of either religion.

        Here is a good discussion from Haaretz.

        link to haaretz.com

        My lapsed Catholic Irish wife used to attend a church, whose members are mostly Sicilians, who ate copious amounts of muffaletta for the Festival of St. Martin.

        There is a basic pre-Judaic pre-Islamic, pre-Christian culture among N. Africans and Sicilians, whether native, Phoenician, or Greek.

        Likewise the elite within the Yiddish-speaking E. European communities grafted superficial Judaic culture upon a fundamentally Slavic, Turkic, and Germanic pagan base as a means of communal control and now uses this fake cultural heritage to justify theft of Palestine and genocide of the native Palestinian population, which actually descends from Judeans of the Greco-Roman period.

        The best way for the Israeli East European, N. African, S. Arabian, and Mesopotamian invaders to embrace their ancestral cultural heritage is to abandon their racist genocidal state (as I have) and return the country to the natives.

      • Mooser
        February 28, 2016, 9:04 pm

        “My lapsed Catholic Irish wife used to attend a church, whose members are mostly Sicilians, who ate copious amounts of muffaletta for the Festival of St. Martin.”

        Apart from questions of culinary and liturgical provenance, even the most cursory research shows this to be a practice which may be emulated to one’s spiritual and gustatory well-being. Looks very good especially the olive tapenade!

      • rugal_b
        February 29, 2016, 8:38 am

        @Yonifalic,

        I still don’t get if you were disagreeing with me or supplementing my points to reach a shared viewpoint. There is no such thing as a Jewish people as being marketed by the Zionist regime, and they don’t need to be Jewish in order to live in Israel, nor they have live in Israel to be Jewish. What Israel is doing is exactly what countless other capitalist nations have done ever since the concept of nation-states were conceived in Europe several hundred years ago. Instead of trying to convince the masses of accepting capitalism and its power structure, start with a blank slate and build society from the grounds up that will have no choice but to accept and support a capitalist regime. Language, religion, music and arts, all deliberately created through artificial pressures, in order to emulate culture while ensuring any anti-establishment ideals and thoughts are nipped at the bud. Compare the Jewish faux-ethnicity with the white faux-ethnicity in the US, and you will find too many similarities.

      • Mooser
        February 29, 2016, 11:50 am

        “Compare the Jewish faux-ethnicity with the white faux-ethnicity in the US, and you will find too many similarities.”

        Ummm, “rugal b” dude, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but peyess are not the same thing as dreadlocks. And Rabbinic beard is completely different from a “Duck Dynasty” beard. I can see how you can draw an erroneous conclusions, but no, completely different things.

        And what’s happening on top of my very own pate will never, ever make me a “skinhead”. I’ll just keep letting my kippah out to cover the desert which will never bloom again. But it won’t change my egalitarian principles, or make like eagles any better.

      • YoniFalic
        February 29, 2016, 2:17 pm

        In case it wasn’t clear, I was commenting on the similarity of mufleta in Mimouna and of muffaletta in the Feast of St. Martin. Not all muffaletta are as meaty as that described on the google search page that Mooser provided.

        This article has a picture of muffaletta with ricotta and honey — a personal favorite.

        link to fairytalefeasts.com

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 1:28 am

        “This article has a picture of muffaletta with ricotta and honey — a personal favorite”

        And toasted, too! I’m all for that. Must try soon.

    • rugal_b
      February 29, 2016, 12:38 pm

      Egalitarian lol…Mooser I really pity you and hope you get to see the light before your time comes. I really can’t imagine the dread crawling up my skin if I was in your shoes, reaching the end of my days and still haven’t figured out what real life is.

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 1:16 am

        ” I really can’t imagine the dread crawling up my skin if I was in your shoes,”

        Don’t make me laugh. Your arches aren’t high enough to fit.

  15. kalithea
    February 22, 2016, 3:19 pm

    If power corrupts absolutely and we all recognize it does; therefore the timeless axiom from which this is derived; then whomever chases power to exert supremacy over others will gradually and naturally incur resentment and wrath.

  16. Froggy
    February 22, 2016, 4:29 pm

    “In every generation enemies rise up to destroy us but God saves us from them,” Benjamin Netanyahu said two years ago, as he made matzoh for Passover.

    Odd…. I thought the last time it was the Allies that saved the Jews.

    Credit where it’s due.

    • RoHa
      February 22, 2016, 6:49 pm

      “In every generation enemies rise up to destroy us but God saves us from them,”

      Then why do Jews need a Jewish State as a safe haven?

      • Froggy
        February 26, 2016, 1:13 pm

        Do they?

  17. jon s
    February 22, 2016, 4:52 pm

    Every nation and ethnic group has the right to maintain and nurture its unique identity, its culture and traditions and values. It’s quite normal to do so, as long as you’re not trying to harm others.
    Every such group, (and every individual )can regard itself as “special”. Just remember that “special” doesn’t mean “superior”.

    • Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 5:03 pm

      “It’s quite normal to do so, as long as you’re not trying to harm others.”

      Puh-leeze. Do you think you are dealing with children? Zionism makes harming others (or wishing them harmed) a prerequisite for being Jewish.
      That’s the problem, not how “special” or “chosen” you feel doing it

    • talknic
      February 22, 2016, 5:56 pm

      @ jon s “Every nation and ethnic group has the right to maintain and nurture its unique identity, its culture and traditions and values. It’s quite normal to do so, as long as you’re not trying to harm others”

      UNSC Resolution 476 is one of at least EIGHT reminders of UNSC Res 252
      252 (1968) of 21 May 1968, 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969, 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971, 446 (1979) of 22 March 1979, 452 (1979) 20 July 1979, 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, 476 June 30 1980 and 478 August 20 1980. None of which have anything to do with race or religion. They’re based on the UN Charter, International Law and the GC’s, all of which Israel obliged itself to uphold. Alas it hasn’t.

      UNSC res 476

      1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem;
      2. Strongly deplores the continued refusal of Israel, the occupying Power, to comply with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council and the General Assembly;
      3. Reconfirms that all legislative and administrative measures and actions taken by Israel, the occupying Power, which purport to alter the character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem have no legal validity and constitute a flagrant violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War and also constitute a serious obstruction to achieving a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East;
      4. Reiterates that all such measures which have altered the geographic, demographic and historical character and status of the Holy City of Jerusalem are null and void and must be rescinded in compliance with the relevant resolutions of the Security Council;
      5. Urgently calls on Israel, the occupying Power, to abide by this and previous Security Council resolutions and to desist forthwith from persisting in the policy and measures affecting the character and status of the Holy city of Jerusalem;

      Instead Israel, the Jewish State, has continued in contravention of the Law and the basic tenets of Judaism, to dispossess non-Jews from non-Israeli territories so that the land can be sold to gullible Jews who have been brain washed into thinking they’re living in Israel

      ” Just remember that “special” doesn’t mean “superior””

      Nor does it mean they’re above the law. You ought try looking in a mirror and try saying the crap you come out with pal

    • Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 6:59 pm

      “Every nation and ethnic group has the right to maintain and nurture its unique identity, its culture and traditions and values.”

      But they (we) have no right to attack, or defend ourselves against those who would destroy and exterminate “its unique identity, its culture and traditions and values.”? Of course we do, right?
      Certainly you will allow Jews the right of defense, “Jon s” I would hope?

    • RoHa
      February 22, 2016, 7:00 pm

      “Every nation and ethnic group has the right to maintain and nurture its unique identity, its culture and traditions and values.”

      Why do you think this is a right? Is this alleged right a right of the individual members of the group, or is it one of these mysterious group rights?

      ” It’s quite normal to do so, as long as you’re not trying to harm others. ”

      “Normal” is not the same as “permissible”. And who are the others? Do you mean other members of the group, who can be harmed by some of the nastier traditions of the group, or members of other groups? Is the harm done by individual members of the group, or by the group as a whole?

    • rosross
      February 22, 2016, 7:47 pm

      Jews are not a nation. No religion constitutes a nation. And neither are Jews an ethnic group beyond a shared religion. That applies to all religions. Ergo, if one religion has a right to colonise others in the name of its unique religious identity then all have that right.

      Not surprisingly, none have that right. No religion has a right to land, ,a homeland, a nation or a State. In fact, no-one has any right to steal someone else’s country for any reason and no-one ever has the right to maintain occupation, colonisation and apartheid as Israel does.

      There is nothing normal about occupation, colonisation and apartheid.

      You are correct, many groups consider themselves special so even that is not particular to Judaism and you are equally correct that it does not mean superior.

      However, Jews have colonised Palestine in the belief that they are superior to non-Jews in general and particularly superior to Palestinian non-Jews, considering the latter to be sub-human. That sounds like a pretty superior sense of religious bigotry to most people.

      However, it is a digression for no religion ever has any right to a State, nation or homeland and no-one ever has any right to colonise someone else’s country. Israel is wrong on every count and always has been.

      • hophmi
        February 23, 2016, 10:31 am

        “Jews are not a nation. No religion constitutes a nation.”

        Strange thing to say in a world with dozens of states where Islam is the state religion and dozens more where Christianity was until very recently in history, but long enough to make Europe 90% Christian.

      • Bumblebye
        February 23, 2016, 2:22 pm

        @hophmi

        “Strange”? Hardly. State religions not withstsnding, neither Christians or Muslims, any more than Jews, are a “nation”. You are not part of a “Jewish nation”, you are an American who happens to be Jewish. As far as we know, you are not Israeli – and even then, an Israeli ought to be able to share his sense of nationhood with the non-Jews who also belong there.

      • talknic
        February 23, 2016, 8:40 pm

        @ hophmi

        “Jews are not a nation. No religion constitutes a nation.”

        “Strange thing to say in a world with dozens of states where Islam is the state religion”

        hophmi immediately demonstrates the typical Ziopropagandist/Israeli apologist dishonest tactic of exchanging what was said for something they wish was said, but wasn’t.

        “nation” miraculously becomes “state”. What a talent for showing readers how deceitful Zionists can be. AMAZING!

        Keep up the good work

      • DaBakr
        February 26, 2016, 6:42 pm

        @by

        tell that the half million or more arabs who where chased out with all of their possessions and wealth stolen by drag, egypt, syria and many other arab nations because they ‘happened to be jews’ lol

      • Annie Robbins
        February 26, 2016, 7:12 pm

        chased out dbkr? w/all the zionists agents trying to fill up all the home in palestine i guess those false flag bombs and such did the trick eh? caught in egypt tho..bummer! in iraq some agents in on the dirty deeds spilled the beans.

      • DaBakr
        February 26, 2016, 11:26 pm

        @an

        a.-yes. with “all” the zionist agents {what? maybe a dozen at most} trying to convince jews living under the dcimmi system in arab/muslim states. with possibly to 2-3 ‘false flag’ operations. the muslim arabs were so so innocent. they couldn’t possibly have chased,threatened or ordered half a million* jews out of their lands in retribution for the birth of israel.

        *and that number is extremely conservative as the number is more likely closer to 800,000.

        -b i would love to know why my other reply to you earlier-answering your charge that i post information (the approx. % of jews worldwide who support the state of israel as a jewish nation.) i can’t back up with links even if my ‘hunch’ is well known common knowledge-easily backed up by any si ole search. if it wasn’t you who moderated i can only assume it was another moderators pique. you may be sharp and sassy but you never appeared to not be able to handle a snarky response because you usually have an immediate comeback.

        -c- why should i provide a link to back up what common knowledge to anyone with a normal retention. it would be like someone scoffing at the statement that ‘the majority of arab nations have islam as their state religion’. or demanding a link to show that donald trump is winning the gop primary due to support from a vastly undereducated mass of angry white americans. who needs a link to a poll. it is redundancy to the umpth degree.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 27, 2016, 1:42 am

        it would be like someone scoffing at the statement that ‘the majority of arab nations have islam as their state religion’.

        lol. except it takes a nano second to find a wiki page to support the claim:

        link to simple.wikipedia.org

        and you who claim “recent polling” have nothing — no link nada.

        your comment wasn’t snarky, it was spam. i deleted it thinking you might get smart and assume i was serious and go back and try harder. quit peddling crap, or your hunches, as truth. if you have no supporting evidence do not frame your allegations (“recent polling”) as if it’s sourced. it makes you appear as tho you are lying. so cough up this alleged “recent polling” or stop spamming.

      • Mooser
        February 27, 2016, 12:01 pm

        Shorter “dabakr”: “I got nothin’, less than nothin’!”

      • Mooser
        February 27, 2016, 12:31 pm

        ” it makes you appear as tho you are lying.”

        And isn’t it just so precious that Dabakr (and the rest of the herd of ilk) don’t even know that!!

        Another words they are completely incapable of interacting if they are not catered to and can’t even conceive of interacting in any other circumstances than being catered to. Yup, Zionism is in good hands. Precious, precious hands.

      • DaBakr
        February 28, 2016, 3:40 pm

        @an

        forget “recent polling” and just make it all polling for the past 40yrs. look at your own archive of published polls. mw has been saying the numbers are declining for a long time and yet-the numbers go up and down and have never seriously fluctuated.
        and p.s. mw is hardly a scientifically oriented blog so you can cool it on your rigid embracing of only legitimate polling. show mw a poll that doesnt lean in 1 direction-or-more precisely: if you like a poll its skewed and if i like a poll its skewed. the world is askew.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 28, 2016, 5:16 pm

        bdkr, i just responded to you here: link to mondoweiss.net

        even tho i had not cited a poll and even though you didn’t ask for a source you implied you were interested in one (a source) so i went online and found one. it’s not that difficult. it’s also not that difficult to say “it was my hunch, i shouldn’t have references a poll[s] i had not seen or read”. it’s a way of furthering the discussion without relying on unsourced allegations. there’s enough here to debate without arguing strawmen.

        btw, i do not ‘rigidly embrace’ polling. but everyone knows citing polls is a pt scoring technique. it’s one thing to argue against the methodology of a poll, it’s another thing to argue against a phantom poll. if you’re going to cite a poll or several polls, be prepared for someone to ask you to source it.

        one way to avoid these sorts of controversies in the future is to not use polling data to back up your assertions unless you’re prepared to provide either a link to the poll or some information confirming it’s existence.

      • DaBakr
        February 29, 2016, 8:26 pm

        @an

        ok annie. i’ll do something i rarely see done by any of the regular commenters here including yourself. i will concede your point-i have not presented a link because i did not feel like ‘easily’ finding a poll to hone my technique and therefore sure up my outrageous hunch about what the vast ma. i am mostly on here to learn and/or be entertained.

        However-i still want to remind you that my original point was NOT about the fact that most jews identify as zionist. it was to point out that the commentator -who was accused of anti-semitism- was defended by the pointing out that she used the term “zionistJews”. If most jews are zionist and zionist jews are nazis….ergo most jews are nazis. and that is simply debating 101

      • Mooser
        March 1, 2016, 1:35 am

        “If most jews are zionist and zionist jews are nazis….ergo most jews are nazis. and that is simply debating 101 “

        If you say so, “Dabakr”. Nobody else is. But you seem quite convinced of it. As you say, “debating 101”.
        But I can certainly understand how hard you wish it were true.

      • eljay
        March 1, 2016, 8:43 am

        || DaBakr: … If most jews are zionist and zionist jews are nazis….ergo most jews are nazis. … ||

        First they tell you it’s anti-Semitic to count Jews, and then they count Jews for you. Huh.

      • MHughes976
        March 1, 2016, 1:03 pm

        The Pew Survey of American Jewish opinion of 2013 indicated the existence of a large majority, ‘seven in ten’, who were either very or somewhat attached emotionally to Israel (Salaita’s category of interest). Those who disclaim even lower-level attachment may not be defintely non-Zionist, they may just prefer not to think about the matter that much. Mind you, the Somewhats outnumbered the Verys and the 30% ‘unattached’ was rather more than I’d have expected. Pew makes the familiar points that the attachment grows with religion and with age. Still, we can recognise ‘Jewish people of the Pew mainstream’. It seems fair to consider them Zionists, though the survey (I’ve read only the summary) seems to lay no stress on that term.
        If we argued that all members of this Jewish mainstream are Zionists and that all Zionists are Nazis it does indeed follow by inescapable logic that all members of that mainstream are Nazis. The conclusion of a valid argument is true if the premises are and the first premise does seem to be true.
        The second is more contentious. I wouldn’t assert it myself, though so far we have no reason to think that it must be founded on prejudice. If those who use the ‘Nazi’ terminology in this context merely wish to call people who are Jewish by bad names you’d think they wouldn’t select a bad name that clearly does not apply to at least a substantial subset of Jewish people.

      • DaBakr
        March 1, 2016, 10:47 pm

        @mhgh

        please explain your logic by which it does not follow that:
        Most A’s are Z and All Z are B’s ergo= most A’s are B’s

        use a simple venn diagram so everyone can understand

  18. yonah fredman
    February 22, 2016, 5:25 pm

    What a shallow article!

    • Mooser
      February 22, 2016, 6:29 pm

      “What a shallow article!”

      Yes, “Yonah”, I know. I see what you mean.
      Ofir simply refuses to acknowledge how special we Jews are, how unique, and how irrelevant all the normal human cause-and-effect is when it comes to us. We exist outside of that.

      I think we should wear a special token of this, a big button reading “Je Suis Generis!

      • Mooser
        February 22, 2016, 7:04 pm

        Gimme a minute to unpack my Bilhorn Preacher’s Folding Organ and I’ll play you a rendition of Yonah’s favorite Spiritual, ” Deep Comment”

      • RoHa
        February 23, 2016, 7:32 am

        ‘a big button reading “Je Suis Generis!“ ‘

        Whenever I get overconfident about my own abilities, I shall remind myself that I cannot match the master.

      • Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 12:38 pm

        “Whenever I get….”

        Thanks for the kind words, while you’re reminding yourself, I’m kicking myself! I’ve got 12 gross of those buttons, I’ve been pushing that phrase since Charlie Hebdo (I can’t be the only person who thought of it, right?) and I haven’t sold a single one!

    • yonah fredman
      February 22, 2016, 11:07 pm

      Shallow. not deep.

      thus sayeth Jonathan Ofir : “Being “special” as an ethnicity, in our modern day and age, is something that we have collectively come to note as a potentially dangerous issue.”

      Shallow people with a bias to push an agenda might find nothing wrong with this shallow statement.

      But let me pose the following question: Would the world be better off if indeed a hundred years before Zionism (1797, shall we say, 100 years before Herzl organized the first Zionist congress in Basel). the world’s Jews had collectively crawled to the baptismal font like 4 out of 6 of the children of Moses Mendelson and kneeled before the cross and tossed the Torah onto the ash heap and endorsed the Christianity that centuries of their fathers and grandfathers and mothers and grandmothers had resisted.

      (First let me acknowledge that if a vote was taken by those participating in the comments section here, i predict that you would vote. Yes. Baptize yourself, you frigging Jews, the world would be better off without you. Certainly a majority would say, since you don’t accept the Torah as God’s given word, then you should not let a silly thing like identity hold you back.)

      What held the jews back from converting? (True in 1797 most of the world’s Jews lived in a premodern world and had not been sufficiently exposed to the choices that Moses Mendelson’s children were aware of.) They chose not to convert because they felt that there was/is something special about being Jewish. They might have felt that the wisdom of the monotheistic religions is not negligible and particularly the mother of the monotheistic religions, Judaism, was not worthy to be tossed into the garbage heap, that indeed the Torah and the customs and the values contained in the lifestyle and in the Talmud were something special, that is, worthy to draw sufficient loyalty to at least demand a few hours of study before tossing them aside rather than kowtow to the demands of modernism.)

      But Jonathan Ofir and his modern world tell us that to hold onto special is intrinsically dangerous.

      What about the fact that most of the world and certainly most of the Islamic Arab world that this web site is constantly telling us to be wary of offending, and that their culture is worthy of respect, well, most of that world considers their heritage as special that they are not willing to toss Islam or their cultures aside and that this advocacy of tossing away religion that Ofir is pushing here is in fact something that the vast majority of the nations in the Middle East would protest vigorously and tell Mister Ofir to go shove his anti specialness up his you know what. So mw is constantly preaching respect for the Arab Islamics of the region of the Middle east, but such respect for Judaism is called retrograde and dangerous.

      Again this article is shallow. dive into it and you will crack your back and wind up paralyzed.

      • eljay
        February 23, 2016, 8:31 am

        || yonah fredman: … Would the world be better off if indeed a hundred years before Zionism … the world’s Jews had … tossed the Torah onto the ash heap and endorsed the Christianity that centuries of their fathers and grandfathers and mothers and grandmothers had resisted. … ||

        The world may not have been impacted in the slightest. We’ll never know.

        || … So mw is constantly preaching respect for the Arab Islamics of the region of the Middle east, but such respect for Judaism is called retrograde and dangerous. … ||

        Islamics are dangerous, as are Zio-supremacists. Neither should be respected.

        No person should ever be denied his choice to belong to a religious group, to practise a religion or to possess a religious identity. No person should ever be denied his choice not to.

        Religions do not deserve any special respect or treatment, and they most certainly are not entitled to establish and run oppressive, colonialist, expansionist, belligerent, intransigent, nuclear-armed and/or supremacist states.

        || … Again this article is shallow. dive into it and you will crack your back and wind up paralyzed. ||

        If one were to dive into your world and avoid cracking his head as you did, he would eventually drown in your perpetual misery.

      • Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 10:39 am

        But let me pose…/… had resisted

        “Yonah” run! The goyim are coming to get you! And when you go, that’s it, ‘the Jews’ go with you!
        “Yonah” you contain multitudes! Too bad you aren’t in there, too.

        BTW, how is your “paranoia”? I mean, it’s one thing to be told you are less than human, that’s bad. But to have a logorrhea attack because somebody says you aren’t the best goddam thing in the world? You got problems, pal.

      • Mooser
        February 23, 2016, 12:51 pm

        “Baptize yourself, you frigging Jews, the world would be better off without you”

        Gosh, “Yonah” you bring back memories of that dream we call life. When I was a kid, I hated baths. (So sue me, I hadn’t discovered the maidelehs yet.) Anyway, I remember once trying to avoid a full tub I tried one last desperate ploy: “Mom, how do we know some Catholic Priest or Anglican Bishop or something didn’t do something to this water at the reservoir? Do you want me to end up a Southern Baptist?”

        “Yonah” why aren’t you laughing? This is funny.

  19. Stephen Shenfield
    February 22, 2016, 5:42 pm

    The key biblical concept in Jewish specialness is priestliness. Jews are a holy people, a people of priests. So far as I know this is a unique idea. What other group has this self-conception? Other peoples have priestly castes, like India’s Brahmins, and Jews have two priestly castes — Cohanim and Levites — but ALL Jews are priests in relation to the Nations (Gentiles), that is, intermediaries between them and God.

    Where does it go from there? I see a bifurcation. On the one hand there is the idea that Jews are “a light unto the Nations.” They will teach the Nations by their example and bring them closer to God, that is, closer to being Jews. When this task is completed the Jews have fulfilled their mission and can disappear as a special group. Arguably this has already happened when a slight mutation of Judaism, i.e., Christianity, became a universal religion.

    Alternatively, priestliness can be understood statically as a permanent mark of superiority over the Nations. This was the form the idea took in late medieval rabbinical Judaism, now resurrected in Israel — Gentiles are no longer seen as potential Jews but as inferior beings intermediate between animals and real humans, i.e., Jews, and like animals they exist only to serve Jews.

    Regardless of which form it takes, the “specialness” is deeply embedded in the psyche and does not automatically disappear with the end of religious observance. For males it is carved into the most intimate part of the body as genital mutilation (circumcision). It is gradually dissolving nonetheless, as people of Jewish origin gain in awareness and assimilate into humanity.

    • rosross
      February 22, 2016, 7:29 pm

      So why have rabbis? Surely they are superfluous? From the look of various forms of Judaism it does not seem to work much differently to other religions – a bunch of male priests telling everyone, particularly women, what to do and who to be.

      I think the Quakers and a few other Christian offshoot religions were truer to the concept of every member being in direct relationship to God and priests being unnecessary.

    • Mooser
      February 23, 2016, 11:06 am

      ” For males it is carved into the most intimate part of the body as genital mutilation (circumcision)”

      ROTFLMSJAO!!!! So we can peer into our BVDs, look at our custom-carved caper-cutters and think “How special am I”?
      Well, not special enough to be protected from genital mutilation. So how special is that?

  20. rosross
    February 22, 2016, 7:15 pm

    While Judaism may have turned it into an art form, it is within the nature of most religions to have members consider themselves special, exceptional, other, superior etc. And particularly where the religion functions in orthodox form.

    Jews are just as capable of assimilating as anyone else, it is just a matter of how fundamentalist they are about their religion.

    The fact is that fundamentalist religion of any kind makes assimilation impossible and that applies to all religions equally. All fundamentalist religions are in essence bigoted, believing that they must be kept pure, members must marry ‘in’ and others are to be kept at a distance and that is not particular to Jews. Spend time with Hindus, Jains, Muslims, Christians and you find the same attitudes.

    And Jews, like anyone, as my ancestors did, can drop the religion and assimilate thoroughly. Judaism is not an ethnicity beyond a religious culture, which applies to all religions, and it is certainly not racial.

    Where Judaism has inflated the concept of ‘specialness’ is in merging it with victimhood. Stand at the Wailing Wall and listen to what is being said! It is a litany of moaning about wrongs done to followers of Judaism over thousands of years.

    Now, in psychological terms that is about as destructive and unhealthy as one can get. The Jewish obsession is a variation on the theme of the Christian obsession with the crucifixion except that each individual Jew is taught to see him or herself, as the crucified one and Christians are taught to see the figure of Jesus as carrying that role for them.

    Each version of victimhood is desperately unhealthy, not just for individuals but for the religions as well.

    • Mooser
      February 23, 2016, 10:59 am

      ” for the religions as well”

      A “religion” is not an undifferentiated mass of people. Maybe victimhood works out very well for some people in the religion, to the cost of others.

      • rosross
        February 24, 2016, 12:01 am

        Religions have beliefs, theology, dogma and if that includes victimhood then the religion will spread that theory through its followers.

  21. talknic
    February 23, 2016, 12:20 am

    Special who cares! Just more drivel. Anything to take focus away from the real issue

    Special or not, it’s entirely irrelevant to the actual legal status of the State of Israel and that state’s illegal activities in non-Israeli territories, especially the duping of Jewish Israeli citizens illegally settled in non-Israeli territories since Israel proclaimed and was recognized as it asked to be recognized as of 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) link to trumanlibrary.org

  22. Sibiriak
    February 23, 2016, 1:16 am

    A recent controversial book put forward the thesis that a “superiority complex” was one of three key traits which lead to certain groups in the U.S. performing better than others (the other two traits being “insecurity” and “impulse control”).

    The Triple Package: How Three Unlikely Traits Explain the Rise and Fall of Cultural Groups in America”

    link to amazon.com

    The authors (each a member of a “successful” group) explain their thesis here:

    link to nytimes.com

    We know that group superiority claims are specious and dangerous, yet every one of America’s most successful groups tells itself that it’s exceptional in a deep sense. Mormons believe they are “gods in embryo” placed on earth to lead the world to salvation; they see themselves, in the historian Claudia L. Bushman’s words, as “an island of morality in a sea of moral decay.” Middle East experts and many Iranians explicitly refer to a Persian “superiority complex.” At their first Passover Seders, most Jewish children hear that Jews are the “chosen” people; later they may be taught that Jews are a moral people, a people of law and intellect, a people of survivors.

    —————

    One of the most famous and controversial “superiority” theses of all time is, of course, found in Max Weber’s “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.

    Weber traced the origins of the Protestant ethic to the Reformation, though he acknowledged some respect for secular everyday labor as early as the Middle Ages.[6]:28 The Roman Catholic Church assured salvation to individuals who accepted the church’s sacraments and submitted to the clerical authority. However, the Reformation had effectively removed such assurances. From a psychological viewpoint, the average person had difficulty adjusting to this new worldview, and only the most devout believers or “religious geniuses” within Protestantism, such as Martin Luther, were able to make this adjustment, according to Weber.

    In the absence of such assurances from religious authority, Weber argued that Protestants began to look for other “signs” that they were saved. Calvin and his followers taught a doctrine of double predestination, in which from the beginning God chose some people for salvation and others for damnation.

    The inability to influence one’s own salvation presented a very difficult problem for Calvin’s followers. It became an absolute duty to believe that one was chosen for salvation, and to dispel any doubt about that: lack of self-confidence was evidence of insufficient faith and a sign of damnation. So, self-confidence took the place of priestly assurance of God’s grace.

    Worldly success became one measure of that self-confidence. [emphasis added]

    link to en.wikipedia.org

  23. olive52
    February 23, 2016, 3:21 am

    Thank you so much for reminding the readers that ‘Jews aren’t special’ , what a contribution to the MW audience. You obviously needed to get that off your chest, I hope you can move on and right the next article, “Christians are special, Muslims arent Special, etc etc.

    • Mooser
      February 23, 2016, 10:56 am

      “Olive52” I want to tell you, right now, that you are (regardless of religion, or anything else) a very special, and especially valuable person.
      You are the kind of person who registers, and comments at Mondo, providing the site with ‘hits’. And even better, UPVs!
      As another Mondo enthusiast, I thank you.

  24. jon s
    February 24, 2016, 3:47 pm

    I recall that a similar discussion – of Jews being “chosen” – has appeared previously on MW.
    I’m allowing myself to recycle a comment, (with an update):

    There is a undeniable concept, in Judaism, of being “chosen”. Observant and traditional Jews include in their prayers a blessing to God who “chose us from among the nations”. Also the well-known “Aleinu” prayer gives thanks for creating us different, “and our destiny is not the same” [as that of other nations]. However – and this is the main point – “different” doesn’t necessarily mean “superior”. In the Bible, Abraham is chosen to be the father of the nation, but God doesn’t make him King of the World. Instead, he is required to sacrifice his beloved son, Isaac. No power over others , no superiority, only an agonizing sacrifice. The Torah is also quite clear on equality: “One law shall be unto him that is homeborn and unto the stranger…” (Exodus 12:49); “Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger as for the home-born” (Leviticus 24:22) , and elsewhere. Sadly, over hundreds of years , including the 20th century, being “chosen” has meant being singled out for discrimination, persecution and annihilation. (There’s a heart breaking Hebrew poem by Nathan Alterman , from 1942, on Jewish children , “chosen from all the children in the world ” , chosen to be murdered. I haven’t been able to locate an English translation.) I recall a discussion I had with my father (of blessed memory) on the “Chosen People” topic. He said that being “chosen” doesn’t entail any kind of privilege in relation to other peoples, only obligations : to live an exemplary moral life, to stand up for good against evil, which, for him, meant fighting for social justice and against racism and fascism. It also entails a feeling of pride in our traditions and heritage.

    Update : Meanwhile, I’ve found a partial traslation of Alterman’s poem:

    “Praised are You … who has chosen us out of all the nations”. In this poem Alterman says, “At our children’s cry, shadowed by scaffolds, we heard not the world’s furor. For you have chosen us out of all nations, you loved us and favoured. For you have chosen us of all nations, of Norwegians, Czechs and Britons. As they march toward scaffolds, Jewish children of reason, they know their blood shan’t be reckoned among the rest, they just call to the mother ‘turn away your face’.”
    link to en.wikipedia.org

    • Mooser
      February 24, 2016, 4:31 pm

      “There is a undeniable concept, in Judaism, of being “chosen”. “

      Sure! Just like you were chosen to report “terrorist attack on Beersheva” to Mondo while an innocent man was killed. And chosen to double-down on it, when questioned, too!

      But yes, I get it “Jon s” the conceptions and traditions of Judaism are just so special, it shouldn’t matter at all what we actually do. After all, what on earth would we do without us?

      Uh, “Jon s” ummm, I hate to bring it up, but did it ever occur to you that your comments, your way of presenting it, tell anybody as much as they need to know about Jewish “choseness”? Maybe about as much as they can stand?

    • oldgeezer
      February 24, 2016, 4:42 pm

      @jon

      Too bad it all went so horribly wrong. The culprit was zionism which was by design intending to harm others.

      The Roma children thank you for the usual zionist remembrance of their fate.

      • Mooser
        February 24, 2016, 6:30 pm

        “I’m allowing myself to recycle a comment, (with an update):”

        Aren’t we lucky! But of course, (goes without saying) I’m very, very sorry about what happened to you in the Holocaust, “Jon s”.

  25. jon s
    February 25, 2016, 6:19 am

    Incidentally the quote that you attribute to Netanyahu is from the Passover Haggadah:

    “This is what has stood by our fathers and us! For not just one alone has risen against us to destroy us, but in every generation they rise against us to destroy us; and the Holy One, blessed be He, saves us from their hand!”

    • eljay
      February 25, 2016, 7:17 am

      || jon s: ” … the Holy One, blessed be He, saves us from their hand!” ||

      Except when he says “no” and lets you perish.

      Why does God hate Jews so much?!

    • Annie Robbins
      February 25, 2016, 11:01 am

      the quote that you attribute to Netanyahu is from the Passover Haggadah

      jon, as the author points out right in the text:

      So the victimhood became a part of the “special” case for Jews integrated into Zionism. The victimhood didn’t start there, it goes all the way back to the dawn of Judaism, where it wasn’t even called that. In the celebration of Passover, one of the texts, chanted by religious and secular Jews alike, is, “How is it, that in each generation, they rise upon us to destroy us, and the Lord blessed be his name saves us from their hand”.

      • jon s
        February 25, 2016, 3:43 pm

        Annie, sorry, I didn’t notice that in the text.

        However:
        As you can see , the “quote” in the text is inaccurate.
        The caption in the photo at the top appears to attribute it to Netanyahu.

      • Annie Robbins
        February 25, 2016, 4:02 pm

        As you can see , the “quote” in the text is inaccurate. The caption in the photo at the top appears to attribute it to Netanyahu.

        the photo caption says

        “In every generation enemies rise up to destroy us but God saves us from them,” Benjamin Netanyahu said two years ago, as he made matzoh for Passover

        and it was reported in april 2014:

        Prime Minister Netanyahu, citing the Passover Haggadah added: “In every generation enemies rise up to destroy us, but God saves us from them. The haggadah mentions four sons – wise, wicked, simple and the one who does not know how to ask – but each one has a Jewish spark.”

        Read more: “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu seen on video baking Passover matzah at Hasidic matzah bakery “link to worldwideweirdnews.com

        so if netanyahu got the quote wrong, he got the quote wrong. but we quoted him correctly.

    • amigo
      February 25, 2016, 11:10 am

      “This is what has stood by our fathers and us”.jon s

      Let,s see???.

      Stealing other peoples land.

      Murdering people on the high seas.

      Imprisoning 1.7 million of your neighbours and keeping them on a diet and slaughtering a couple of thousand of them when you need to re-inflate your zionist ego and satisfy your lust for blood.

      Torturing children and imprisoning them without trial.

      Attacking and burning Palestinian families out of their homes.

      Spraying skunk juice on the homes of Palestinian families , just because they are not Jews.

      The list is too long for posting here but it seems to me , the above policies are hardly likely to enhance your security and entice people to kiss your zionist asses.

      • eljay
        February 25, 2016, 11:55 am

        || amigo: … the above policies are hardly likely to enhance your security and entice people to kiss your zionist asses. ||

        Not to worry: Bibi “King of all Jews” Netanyahu has a plan. He’s going to build a fence around Israel – and most of Palestine – to protect his loyal subjects throughout the world.

        Nothing can harm the fish once they’ve taken refuge in the barrel…

  26. talknic
    February 25, 2016, 10:02 pm

    link to smh.com.au

    What is it about the basic tenets of Judaism that some Jews and almost all Zionists refuse to understand?

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