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High Israeli official hints, We made the Flame virus

Israel/Palestine
on 125 Comments

Code from Flame virus
Code from Flame virus

The Flame virus, which has infected thousands of computers mostly in the Middle East, is being described as the most pernicious and complex software ever developed.  The existence of the malware was recently made public by Kaspersky Lab, which discovered the malicious program while investigating infected computers for the United Nations.  The virus is believed to have been attacking computers for at least two years.

What is the origin of the Flame malware?  Well, according to The Christian Science Monitor, experts say only four nations have the technical knowledge to build such a complicated program.  They are the United States, Russia, and China and, as you might have guessed, Israel.

Like the Stuxnet and Duqu malware, which many believe to have originated in Israel, Flame exploits vulnerabilities in the Windows operating system.  Also, the cyber-attack is mostly aimed at Iran; the second most targeted victim is the Palestinian Authority.  Are those enough clues?

If you are not yet convinced yet that Israel is the culprit, this is what Deputy Prime Minister Moshe Ya’alon said in a radio interview on Tuesday, according to the Jerusalem Post.

In comments that could be construed as suggesting that Israel is behind the “Flame” virus, the latest piece of malicious software to attack Iranian computers, Vice Premier Moshe Ya’alon on Tuesday said that “whoever sees the Iranian threat as a serious threat would be likely to take different steps, including these, in order to hurt them.”

Speaking in an interview with Army Radio, Ya’alon further hinted that Jerusalem was behind the cyber attack, saying “Israel is blessed to be a nation possessing superior technology. These achievements of ours open up all kinds of possibilities for us.”

The Jerusalem Post headline stated that Ya’alon “hinted” that the software is Israeli.  The Hebrew language website of the Israeli daily Ma’ariv quoted the same radio interview.   Its headline more definitively said Ya’alon “confirmed” that Flame was Israeli.

Flame is a virus that steals and deletes data, makes copies of the computer screens and uses the internal microphone to record conversations.   Experts say it could take years to figure out all of its functions.  Unlike many malware programs, Flame is sent to specifically targeted computers and networks.  It has been implicated in causing the shutdown of Iranian oil terminals in April.

Iran admits that the Flame malware has caused damage to its computers, but claims to have developed security software which can disable it.

It is important to note that the United States has an extremely close military and security relationship with Israel, especially in regard to their shared hostility toward Tehran.  There has been much speculation that the U.S. participated in the creation of the Stuxnet virus, which also mainly targeted Iran.  Thus American involvement in the making and distribution of the Flame virus cannot be ruled out.

Also of note, the staid International Herald Tribune (IHT) blog, which now bills itself as “The Global Edition of the New York Times,” quoted Richard Silverstein’s outspoken blog, Tikun Olam, saying that the virus was Israeli.  The IHT mischaracterizes Richard’s blog as a liberal Israeli website.

“The country that brought us Iranian nuclear assassinations, explosions at Iran missile bases, and Stuxnet, is at it again,” wrote Richard Silverstein on Israel’s liberal Tikun Olam Web site under the headline: “Israel’s new contribution to Middle East cyberwar.”

“The goal is apparently to infiltrate the computers of individuals in Iran, Israel, Palestine and elsewhere who are engaged in activities that interest Israel’s secret police, including military intelligence,” Mr. Silverstein said, suggesting Israeli intelligence might even be using the worm to spy on its own citizens.

 

Update: NBC News is reporting the possibility that the Flame virus was made in the USA.

Ira Glunts
About Ira Glunts

Ira Glunts is a retired college librarian who lives in Madison, NY. His twitter handle is @abushalom

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125 Responses

  1. seafoid
    seafoid
    May 30, 2012, 9:49 am

    Israel is really serious about the ideological belief that Iran is its enemy. The computer virus is just more proof. The end logic of the whole picture is a war.

    Jews vs Shia.

    It’s a very bad idea.

    Zionism appears to be the political equivalent of the bath salts drug

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/may/29/miami-man-eating-face-lsd

    “Paul Adams, an emergency room doctor, said that synthetic stimulant drugs such as bath salts, named for its powdery substance, can make users feel invincible and give them superhuman strength, but can also trigger aggression, extreme paranoia and hallucinations.

    “It’s the new designer drug,” he told the Guardian. “It causes a state of excited delirium, raises the body temperature and causes irritability and confusion, which is heightened when combined with a lack of adequate hydration. You find yourself not making sense, and you don’t control your emotions or your actions.”

    • American
      American
      May 30, 2012, 12:26 pm

      That bath salt drug is interesting…I can see some useful terrorist applications for it. Or some “Patriotic” applications…since it’s inhaled you could disperse thru the a/c/heating system in our congressional building or the AIPAC offices and we could get them to all kill and eat each other…any stray escapee ‘walking dead’ we could shoot down…LOL

      • Western Sky
        Western Sky
        May 30, 2012, 7:02 pm

        Right, because chemical warfare terrorism is hilarious…

  2. Les
    Les
    May 30, 2012, 10:16 am

    Whoever came up with it, others are sure to follow from the opposite side. This is after all software technology and not the product of magicians’ secrets.

  3. libra
    libra
    May 30, 2012, 10:32 am

    “Gee Steve, was it such a good idea doing malware research in Israel?”

    Microsoft R&D Israel – Protection Services

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      May 30, 2012, 10:47 am

      Israel is trying everything. Assassinating scientists, malware, sanctions . What if none of it works ? What if the calculations are all wrong ?

      • Fredblogs
        Fredblogs
        May 30, 2012, 9:51 pm

        Then they’ll just have to rely on mutually assured destruction to keep the Iranians from nuking them.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        May 31, 2012, 10:07 am

        “Then they’ll just have to rely on mutually assured destruction to keep the Iranians from nuking them.”

        Sounds like a good plan. That would also keep the Israel dogs of war on the leash.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        May 31, 2012, 12:05 pm

        Yeah, well Fredblogs, that assumes Dick & Jane will continue their ignorant acts; you may be right in counting on their ignorance.

  4. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    May 30, 2012, 10:34 am

    Hopefully the “Flame” that iran returns to Israel isn’t a military or nuclear one. Though, if it were, one could hardly say the Israelis didn’t deserve it, as much as I would feel bad for any innocent people killed in such an attack.

    • Theo
      Theo
      May 30, 2012, 11:45 am

      Woody

      Just as there were very few innocent germans 80 years ago, every israeli is responsible for the deeds of their government, military and intelligence services.
      Closing your eyes and ears when a great majority of your fellow citizens occupy stolen lands, kill innocent civilians, send killing teams to murder political leaders of others, and in this case, sends malware to destroy the properties and cause damages all over the world, will not make you an innocent bystander.
      Should a different Flame ever hit Israel, they deserve what is coming their way.
      Just pitty the children, not any adults, because they all helped to create that monster called Israel.

      • Theo
        Theo
        May 30, 2012, 12:01 pm

        I would like to add: one day we may be asked to pay for all those crimes commited by our military and intelligence services.
        I would take a time just to list them all.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        May 30, 2012, 12:36 pm

        Theo,

        I disagree with your premise. There are many people in Israel who have personal responsbility, but not all of them are by any means. About 1/5 of those people are victims of the racism of many of the others, for pete’s sakes, there are a lot of people who are good (i.e., involved in the movement for Palestinians rights), not to mention children, etc. There is not enough of them, for sure, but there are a lot of them.

      • Theo
        Theo
        May 30, 2012, 1:33 pm

        Woody

        This is still a free country and we do not have to agree on anything.
        However, which adult in Israel can really say I am innocent?
        Those zionists in power get stronger each year, that means the support is growing. How many demonstrations did you see after the Gaza or any other attack on civilians? A zero is a lonely number.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        May 30, 2012, 2:19 pm

        A person is innocent if that person did not participate in an offense, and is responsible only to the extent of their participation.

      • annie
        annie
        May 30, 2012, 7:33 pm

        a child is not culpable because he may grow up to be in a threat…this is crazy talk. adults perhaps,but not the kids. so i think it’s much less than 95%.

      • Theo
        Theo
        May 31, 2012, 11:58 am

        In Germany, and in other european countries, if you watch someone commiting a crime and you do not try to help, like in case of an attack, you just made yourself liable.
        Very few israelis do speak up against the crimes commited and how do you plan to find them in case the final judgement arrives?
        Did the zionists ever try to find innocent germans or damned them all?
        What is good for the goose, also good for the gander.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        June 1, 2012, 10:09 am

        Theo –

        For many years the Israelis had a policy of granting visas to any German born after 1927, while investigating applicants born earlier. (Do the math). By sometime in the 1980s, however, the policy was dropped, and the requirement for Germans to acquire visas was also dropped, and no-one asked the question anymore. So, yes, I think it’s pretty clear the Israelis regarded even Germans old enough to have been Nazis on a case-by-case method.

        I don’t know why this is relevant to the blogpost about Flame, but since you asked, that’s the factual answer.

      • Theo
        Theo
        June 1, 2012, 1:17 pm

        relevant

        You know, Winnie, that in a coversation you can start with A and end it with W, without ever realizing you changed the subject.

        As far as visas for germans. They bring money to Israel, as all other tourists do, and you live from that income. Should you stop them, the flow of financial help and submarines from Germany may come to a sudden halt. Young germans do not feel, at least most of them, that they owe anything to Israel. I hope the young in both countries realize that they cannot keep up a grudge forever.

      • Elisabeth
        Elisabeth
        May 30, 2012, 7:48 pm

        In my country (Netherlands) we were so sure for years that (almost) every German was guilty and that “Wir haben es nicht gewusst” was just a lie.

        Over the years I have come to understand that this is for a large part nonsense. Hitler was never democratically elected, no more than about 30 percent (if I remember correctly) voted for his party when he was handed the Chancellorship in a backroom deal. By that time his goons took over the streets, it was no longer free society where people could gather information, there was no internet of course and radio broadcasts, newspapers etc, everything was monitored and censored. Just think about it.
        “Few innocent Germans.” Are you serious?

      • May 30, 2012, 10:40 pm

        “Hitler was never democratically elected, no more than about 30 percent”
        ——————————————————————
        You are right Elisabeth, but not quite right, here are the numbers:

        Election in June 1932 (Before Hitler came to power)
        – NSDAP (Hitler movement) 33%
        – Social Democratic Party 20%
        – Communist Party 17 %
        – Zentrum (catholic) 12 %

        Election in March 1933
        (Hitler was already Chancellor but the election was still free)
        – NSDAP (Hitler movement) 44%
        – Social Democrats 18 %
        – Communist Party 12%
        – Zentrum (catholic) 11 %

      • Elisabeth
        Elisabeth
        May 31, 2012, 3:43 am

        The last free election was in 1932. These are the circumstances under which the elections of 1933 were held. Judge for yourself:

        “The election took place after the Nazi Machtergreifung of 30 January when President Paul von Hindenburg had appointed Hitler Chancellor, who immediately urged the dissolution of the Reichstag and the arrangement of new elections. In early February, the Nazis “unleashed a campaign of violence and terror that dwarfed anything seen so far.” Storm troopers began attacking trade union and Communist Party (KPD) offices and the homes of left-wingers. In the second half of February, the violence was extended to the Social Democrats, with gangs of brownshirts breaking up Social Democrat meetings and beating up their speakers and audiences. Issues of Social Democratic newspapers were banned. Twenty newspapers of the Centre Party, a party of Catholic Germans, were banned in mid-February for criticizing the new government. Government officials known to be Centre Party supporters were dismissed from their offices, and stormtroopers violently attacked party meetings in Westphalia.
        Six days before the scheduled election date, the German parliament building was set alight in the Reichstag fire, allegedly by the Dutch Communist Marinus van der Lubbe. This event reduced the popularity of the KPD, and enabled Hitler to persuade President Hindenburg to pass the Reichstag Fire Decree as an emergency decree according to Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution. This emergency law removed many civil liberties and allowed the arrest of Ernst Thälmann and 4,000 leaders and members of the KPD shortly before the election, suppressing the Communist vote and consolidating the position of the Nazis. The KPD was “effectively outlawed from 28 February 1933”, although it was not completely banned until the day after the election. While at that time not as heavily oppressed as the Communists, the Social Democrats were also restricted in their actions, as the party’s leadership had already fled to Prague and many members were acting only from the underground. Hence, the fire is widely believed to have had a major effect on the outcome of the election.
        The resources of big business and the state were thrown behind the Nazis’ campaign the achieve saturation coverage all over Germany. Brownshirts and SS patrolled and marched menacingly through the streets of cities and towns. A “combination of terror, repression and propaganda was mobilized in every… community, large and small, across the land.” To further ensure the outcome of the vote would be a Nazi majority, Nazi organizations “monitored” the vote process. In Prussia 50,000 members of the SS, SA and Stahlhelm were ordered to monitor the votes as deputy sheriffs by acting Interior Minister Hermann Göring.
        Despite achieving a much better result than in the disappointing November 1932 election, the Nazis did not do as well as Hitler had hoped. Despite massive violence and intimidation, the Nazis won 43.9% of the vote, rather than the majority that he had expected. Therefore, he was forced to maintain his coalition with the national conservative German National People’s Party (DNVP) to control a majority of seats. The Communists forfeited about a fourth of their votes, while the Social Democrats suffered only moderate losses.
        In addition to this, Hitler needed a two-thirds majority to pass the Enabling Act (a constitutional amendment which allowed him to pass laws without consulting the Reichstag parliament), which he gained by persuading the Catholic Centre Party to vote with him with regard to the Reichskonkordat. The bill was passed on 23 March with 444 against 94 votes. Only the Social Democrats led by Otto Wels opposed the measure, which came into effect on 27 March. Moreover, Social Democratic representation was suppressed, because several Social Democratic deputies that were elected to the Reichstag were already prevented from taking their seats by the Nazi SA. Had the Communist Party participated, its representatives would have contributed 12% of the Reichstag votes. Instead, their representatives were on the run or under arrest for their suspect role in the Reichstag Fire.”

      • Elisabeth
        Elisabeth
        May 30, 2012, 8:12 pm

        Two links here on how Hitler was never an elected chancellor of Germany. The highest percentage of the vote he ever got was 37%. His popularity was dropping when a backroom deal was presented to him, handing him the position of chancellor.
        http://democraticpeace.wordpress.com/2008/12/16/what-hitler-was-not-elected/
        http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-hitlerdemo.htm

      • May 31, 2012, 6:21 am

        -“Despite massive violence and intimidation, the Nazis won 43.9% of the vote, rather than the majority that he had expected. ” [in the 1933 election]

        Okay Elisabeth, I just wanted to quote this 44% of NSDAP vote that people often point to as the highest percentage of popular vote for Hitler. ( The election in 1932 took place in November, not June as I wrote above.)
        Anyway, the thing is off topic, I should have left it the way you stated it.

      • lysias
        lysias
        May 31, 2012, 10:25 am

        There were two elections to the Reichstag held in 1932, as well as one for Reichspresident.

        In the second round of the presidential election, held in April, Hindenburg got 53.0% of the vote, Hitler 36.8%, and the Communist Thälmann 10.2%.

        In the first 1932 election to the Reichstag, held in July, the NSDAP got 37.27% of the vote, and 230 out of the 608 seats in the Reichstag.

        In the second 1932 election to the Reichstag, held in November, the NSDAP got 33.09% of the vote, and 196 out of the 584 seats in the Reichstag.

      • Theo
        Theo
        May 31, 2012, 12:07 pm

        Elisabeth

        In Germany, even today, no political party ever gets a majority of over 50%, always backroom deals guarantee a chancellorship. The same is in Netherland.
        Since Hitles got the most votes, it was his pregorative to form a goverment, so this talk about he not being elected is nonsense.
        He may have looked for a partner to get that 50% plus or formed a minority government, (also common in Europe), with the silent support of another group. Whatever happened sealed the kismet of Europe and great part of the world.

      • May 31, 2012, 2:31 pm

        Just to add a technical detail to my statistics above. The voter turnout rose from 81 % (Nov. 1932) to 89 % (March 1933).

        The term “Hitlermovement” is not my wording. Among the 14 parties on the ballot in 1932 (12 in 1933), it said:”Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (Hitlerbewegung)”.

      • Elisabeth
        Elisabeth
        May 31, 2012, 3:03 pm

        Please remember that it was you who started this by saying that there were “very few” innocent Germans. That was what I reacted to: Hitler was never elected by the majority of Germans, let alone by almost everyone except “very few”.

        Then, in answer to Woody Tanaka, you say “Did the zionists ever try to find innocent germans or damned them all? What is good for the goose, also good for the gander.”

        There are enough intelligent Israeli’s who do not damn all Germans, so do not set up a bogeyman, who you then (ironically enough) think fit to emulate. Why not joint the part of humanity that can see nuances.

      • Theo
        Theo
        June 1, 2012, 8:48 am

        Elisabeth

        I don´t know how old are you, but I was born before the WWII started.
        It seems we talk about two different things, you about the israelis today, I about the zionist claims after the war ended in 1945 and the hate germans had to face from all occupied lands. Many “innocent” germans paid with their lives for the crimes commited in their names.
        The two views do not match, regardless how much you try.

        I certainly do not want to make judgement on any individual person in Israel, as I do not know any, however I respect Gideon Levy and the few more who have the guts to speak up. We cannot forget that all those unspeakable crimes against the palestinians are commited in the name and with full support of the people of Israel, the same as it was in Germany during the war!!
        Just as you yourself said, the netherlander considered ALL germans to be bad after the war, so what do you think the palestinians will do when the push comes to shove? Spend month to investigate every jewish person, or take revenge en mass?

        Do you think ANY head of government is democratically elected? How many voters choose the american president, 30-32% in a tight race as a great number doesn´t bother to vote? Not very democratic.
        That is less what Hitler got.
        I do not try to defend that bloody bastard, however technically speaking he was elected, if you know how european politics work. The one with the most votes form the government, even in your own country. Did you not just had a minority government?

      • G. Seauton
        G. Seauton
        June 2, 2012, 11:38 pm

        I’ll tell you who wasn’t elected. George Bush was not elected. Every other U.S. president, with the exception of Jerry Ford, who took office because Nixon resigned under the threat of impeachment, has been elected.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        June 3, 2012, 9:40 am

        @G. Seauton,

        My favorite piece of Ford trivia is the fact that Ford was both VP and President and was never elected to either position, having been appointed as VP when Agnew resigned.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        May 31, 2012, 12:09 pm

        Theo, there is much less excuse today to excuse ignorance anywhere today than there was in Weimar or Nazi Germany.

      • Theo
        Theo
        June 1, 2012, 8:56 am

        Citizen

        Correct, therefore israelis will have less chance of saying: “we did not know that palestinians were killed, their land robbed, their houses destroyed and thousands interned without trial or charges”!

  5. Winnica
    Winnica
    May 30, 2012, 10:42 am

    Seems like a badge of honor. Someone, whoever, invested a tremendous effort in being as fully informed as humanly possible. No one was killed, no one was persecuted. Someone did a spot of successful spying. What could possibly be objectionable about that?

    • libra
      libra
      May 30, 2012, 11:35 am

      Someone did a spot of successful spying. What could possibly be objectionable about that?

      Put your badge of honor back in its box Winnie, Pollard’s still in jail.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      May 30, 2012, 11:36 am

      “No one was killed,”

      You don’t know that.

      “What could possibly be objectionable about that?”

      What is objectionable is that the force which is doing the spying, israel, has a propensity to commit grotesque acts of evil.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        May 30, 2012, 1:59 pm

        Woody – According to the update Ira added to his own post, it was probably the Americans, not the Israelis – unless the Israelis have truly awesome capabilities.

        The thrust of your statement, however, is that since Israel sometimes does bad things, anything it ever does is bad. (Except you used the more forceful word ‘evil’). This is a common sentiment on Mondoweiss, but that doesn’t make it rational, and certainly not logical. As for historical: I’d say that no nation in the historyof the world ever committed only evil. None, ever.

        Do you still insist?

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        May 31, 2012, 12:14 pm

        Winnica, yes, it’s true, even Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, and Stalin’s USSR did not commit only evil. Your point?

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        June 1, 2012, 2:43 pm

        ” According to the update Ira added to his own post, it was probably the Americans, not the Israelis – unless the Israelis have truly awesome capabilities.”

        Actually the current thinking that all of these things are being done jointly by the US and israel.

        “capabilities.

        The thrust of your statement, however, is that since Israel sometimes does bad things, anything it ever does is bad.”

        Nope. That is you trying to generate a strawman. My point is that since israel often does evil things, it should be prevented from aquiring information which would permit it to do more evil things.

      • G. Seauton
        G. Seauton
        June 3, 2012, 12:17 am

        “The thrust of your statement, however, is that since Israel sometimes does bad things, anything it ever does is bad.”

        Not just sometimes, but very often — virtually every single day.

    • Djinn
      Djinn
      May 31, 2012, 12:16 am

      computer viruses, like their medical counterparts, do not just attack those you target, they’re a little more free spirited than that. You have no idea how many people faced negative consequences as a result of Israel’s pathetic petulant attempt to attack Iran.

  6. CloakAndDagger
    CloakAndDagger
    May 30, 2012, 10:47 am

    There is an unconfirmed rumor going around that the Stuxnet virus was partially responsible for the failure to shut down the reactors at Fukushima when natural disaster struck. If this is true, then Israel and the US will have doomed millions of people around the world on a scale never seen before.

    • Winnica
      Winnica
      May 30, 2012, 11:20 am

      Any substantiation whatsoever for that, Cloak? It’s a serious allegation. If it can be supported, even only partially, it should be touted loudly. If not, it’s merely slander.

      I never read anywhere that stuxnet had any sort of capabillity to effect functioning reactors at all. In all the endless verbiage about it, this claim was naver made.

      • annie
        annie
        May 30, 2012, 11:30 am

        I never read anywhere that stuxnet had any sort of capabillity to effect functioning reactors at all.

        try googling Stuxnet virus nuclear reactors

        http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57390124/stuxnet-computer-worm-opens-new-era-of-warfare/

        Stuxnet showed, for the first time, that a cyber attack could cause significant physical damage to a facility. Does this mean that future malware, modeled on Stuxnet, could target other critical infrastructure — such as nuclear power plants or water systems?

        In all the endless verbiage about it, this claim was naver made.

        try googling Fukushima Stuxnet virus

        http://www.examiner.com/article/scientist-japan-earthquake-nuke-accident-are-tectonic-nuclear-warfare

        Independent scientist Leuren Moret, whose 2004 landmark article in the Japan Times unmasked lies and distortions by government and company officials that led to the construction of nuclear power plants in seismically dangerous areas, has declared in an exclusive 65-minute video interview with Alfred Lambremont Webre that the “Japan earthquake and “accidents” at the Fukushima’s 6 nuclear power plant units starting March 11, 2011 are in fact deliberate acts of tectonic nuclear warfare, carried out against the populations ecology of Japan and the nations of the Northern Hemisphere, including the U.S., Canada, and Mexico.

        ……..

        Among the various aspects of the Japan earthquake discussed by Ms. Moret that fit the profile of a HAARP-triggered earthquake system are:

        • The earthquake intensity and characteristics; the deliberate confusion by the U.S. around the scale of the earthquake;

        • The foreshadowing sale of Japan Westinghouse (controlled by Rockefeller interests) in 2006 to Hitachi and other interests;

        The use of the Stuxnet virus in the Fukushima plant to cause the malfunctions of the cooling pumps and valves, thereby creating the dangerous radiation releases;

        • The creation of HAARP-related vortex clouds over the San Francisco, CA Bay Area on March 18, 2011 to trigger a heavy rain out of the radiation from the first Fukushima plant explosion onto the population, food and ecology of the Bay area.

        the video interview with Leuren Moret is available at the link

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        May 30, 2012, 11:43 am

        OK, Annie, I did. This, for instance, is purest innuendo, even if it’s on the website of a respectable university
        http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu/node/5230

        This one
        http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1407768/pg1
        isn’t even innuendo. All it says is that there were siemens computers in both places (I assume they mean Siemens systems, not Siemens computers, but why nit-pick).

        This one isn’t even spelled correctly, but again, all it is empty speculation.
        http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1681996/pg2

        Then there’s this link:
        http://humansarefree.com/2011/03/nsa-virus-stuxnet-hacked-fukushima.html
        beside the erronous “fact” that stuxnet attacks nuclear cooling rods, it contains the allegation that the entire earthquake and tsunami were man-made:
        We can also divulge that the 9.0 – 9.1 earthquake and tsunami that hit the nation of Japan was a meteorological terrorist attack launched against Japan by the out-of-control New World Order (NWO) elite who have decided that at least 25% of the world’s population must be eliminated before the final financial meltdown collapses the world economy.
        The technology used in these meteorological black ops are commonly known as HAARP and Tesla.

        Are you certain you wish to stand by your position, Annie? No second thoughts?

      • annie
        annie
        May 30, 2012, 12:16 pm

        my position? what position? i am not a scientific person nor do i have an opinion regarding what happened nor have i ever researched it since the event until this little search. a lot of the commentary i have encountered about the event in the past i glossed over as i do most scientific information.

        i was inspired by your comment so i did a quick google search.

        btw, when researching the holocaust one can always find questionable websites, but i don’t have the time or interest in checking them out. examples from godlikeproductions are not evidence credible sources do not exist. not sure what your point is with those links.

        my point was, and is, that just because you have never read anywhere that stuxnet had any sort of capabillity to effect functioning reactors at all does not mean information is not out there and it took me all of a few minutes to find it, the very first time i ever looked.

        i do not take positions on huge catastrophic events with a 5 minute search, nor do use websites of a dubious nature. it is unlikely i would ever take a position on how this event occurred for i do not have any background or understanding of science.

        but again, my point is, apparently this is a topic that is debated amongst professionals (as i discovered opening the link to moret’s bio) which i found out a few minutes ago, thanks to your comment. i don’t think i even would have bothered looking in response to C&D’s ‘rumor’ comment. apparently it is more than a rumor, and cbs’s link was right at the top! hardly a source for conspiracy theories.

      • annie
        annie
        May 30, 2012, 12:21 pm

        btw, i found the examiner link by opening the first video in the search which posted the link below it. iow, i didn’t have to look far. look at the time stamps on your comment and mine, that is how long it took me to find this. sowhen you say I never read anywhere, basically it means you have not ever searched. it took less than 5 minutes and another 5 minutes to document my brief search.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        May 30, 2012, 2:07 pm

        Annie –

        your long response illustrates one of the characteristics of discussions on Mondoweiss: the reluctance to evaluate sources by quality, and the propensity to evaluate them by content. Thus, a set of crackpot websites versus the mainstream media about what Stuxnet did or didn’t do: who knows? They’re all equally on the internet so how are we to tell? Or the entire mainstream media versus an insider among the decision-makers with access to information which may take years to reach the public: the media is on the internet, the classified deliberations happen behind closed doors in carefully guarded installations: who knows? How can one possibly tell which is more reliable? The ones that are on the Internet, at least they can be linked to, so they must have the truth.

        And then of course, there’s the tried and proven method: if it supports an Israeli narrative it must be hasbara, being disseminated by “ziobots”; if it damns Israel, there can be no doubt it’s simple self evident truth.

      • annie
        annie
        May 30, 2012, 5:06 pm

        winnie, the only reason i am taking the time to respond to this comment is because it was so important to you, you evidently felt the need to send it to my inbox.

        your long response illustrates one of the characteristics of discussions on Mondoweiss: the reluctance to evaluate sources by quality, and the propensity to evaluate them by content.

        what are you talking about? i did not, then nor now evaluate the information,nor do i intend to as i explained earlier (“it is unlikely i would ever take a position on how this event occurred for i do not have any background or understanding of science.”). i didn’t even open your ‘godlike’ links, if that why you accuse us of “reluctant to evaluate a source by quality”.

        you’re diverting. you’d rather talk about your own links than the msm ones i linked to.

        a set of crackpot websites versus the mainstream media about what Stuxnet did or didn’t do: who knows? They’re all equally on the internet so how are we to tell?

        but you are the one who linked to the crackpot websites. i only have so many hrs in the day, excuse me for ignoring them.

        if it supports an Israeli narrative it must be hasbara, being disseminated by “ziobots”; if it damns Israel, there can be no doubt it’s simple self evident truth.

        i get it. you’d rather make a point no one is arguing than address anything i said. i responded to your statement i placed in italics at the beginning of the exchange, that is all. i used easily accessible msm websites available on a simple google search to show you that just because you’d never heard of something means..nothing. it’s not an argument.

        next you reference my ‘position’, then my alleged ‘support for narrative’.

        go find someone else to discuss this with, i have no position on this topic nor am i qualified to have a position.

        goodbye.

      • annie
        annie
        May 30, 2012, 5:20 pm

        ps, per your email, the idea i would be ‘frightened’ by this comment of yours and therefore it would be ‘held back’ is absurd.

      • MRW
        MRW
        May 30, 2012, 8:00 pm

        Winnica,

        An Israeli company was in charge of Fukushima security. You can google that article at Haaretz, should you choose to read it. Pardon us if we remain unimpressed with your self-righteousness and ‘prove-it-to-me’ hauteur in light of the braggadocio, above, over Flame.

      • Fredblogs
        Fredblogs
        May 30, 2012, 9:58 pm

        @Winnica
        Bravo. 100% correct.

      • Djinn
        Djinn
        May 31, 2012, 12:35 am

        try researching like an adult an not a 14 year old looking for porn – narrow to .edu domains only. I have no idea if there is any truth to the stuxnet/fukushima link (though it seems unlikely) but I do know that you made no real attempt to find legitimate sources (or you dont know how to). As Annie says there are questionable websites covering almost any topic and because there are more credulous people than critical thinkers they often come up first in a straight google search.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        May 31, 2012, 1:23 am

        Annie and MRW-

        According to all credible sources, Stuxnet attacked centrifuges. There were never any centrifuges at Fukushima, or at any other reactor for that matter, because reactors don’t use centrufuges. The centrifuges are meant to produce enriched Uranium, which will then later be worked into the rods which fuel reactors.

        If you’ve got any credible evidence to refute this, please present it. Until then, the allegation is outlandish. The fact that one can use google to find outlandish allegations merely demonstrates there are lots of lies on the Internet.

        Remember, this sub-thread started when CloakandDagger insinuated that Israel and the USA “will have doomed millions of people around the world on a scale never seen before.” That’s a serious thing to say, and any reasonable person should reject it with disdain, or demonstrate why it might be true. No-one here has done either, prefering instead to attack me for pointing out the wierdness of the claim.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        May 31, 2012, 1:54 am

        According to all credible sources, Stuxnet attacked centrifuges.

        Wrong. Stuxnet attacks control systems, such as those used to regulate centrifuges – slexificalky those made by Siemens.

        Control systems are used throughout all plant facilities, which unclouded the cooling systems of nuclear reactors.

      • American
        American
        May 31, 2012, 2:24 am

        “Remember, this sub-thread started when CloakandDagger insinuated that Israel and the USA “will have doomed millions of people around the world on a scale never seen before.” That’s a serious thing to say, and any reasonable person should reject it with disdain, or demonstrate why it might be true. No-one here has done either, prefering instead to attack me for pointing out the wierdness of the claim”…..Winnica

        LOl…well cloakanddagger likes to think ‘ahead’ and it’s perfectly reasonable to assume or foresee the US&Israel dooming millions of people around the world since they’ve both ‘ already ‘ doomed and damaged millions of people around the world.
        Only an idiot would reject this past fact and and no one has to demonstrate why it might be a true future possibility.
        The possibility has been proven by the past.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        June 1, 2012, 10:31 am

        Shingo –

        You’ve never designed a complex software system, have you. So here’s some food for thought. Softare companies invest large, sometimes even enormous sums in developing large systems. Then, once they’ve got a product to market, they collect additional large sums – sometimes millions of dollars – from organizations who wish to implement their products. The reason for this is that while the out-of-the-box product does address the needs of the client organizations, it can’t deal with the specifics of each client.

        The idea that a piece of software designed for one kind of an organization – a manager of centrifuges, say – could inadvertently impact a totally different kind of organization – a nuclear reactor, say – is laughable.

      • lysias
        lysias
        June 1, 2012, 11:02 am

        I think you should read today’s article in the New York Times on the unintended effects of Stuxnet:

        An error in the code, they said, had led it to spread to an engineer’s computer when it was hooked up to the centrifuges. When the engineer left Natanz and connected the computer to the Internet, the American- and Israeli-made bug failed to recognize that its environment had changed. It began replicating itself all around the world. Suddenly, the code was exposed, though its intent would not be clear, at least to ordinary computer users.

      • lysias
        lysias
        June 1, 2012, 11:49 am

        And look at what an earlier NYT report on Stuxnet, from 2010, said Stuxnet had in fact affected:

        The malicious code has appeared in many countries, notably China, India, Indonesia and Iran. But there are tantalizing hints that Iran’s nuclear program was the primary target. Officials in both the United States and Israel have made no secret of the fact that undermining the computer systems that control Iran’s huge enrichment plant at Natanz is a high priority. (The Iranians know it, too: They have never let international inspectors into the control room of the plant, the inspectors report, presumably to keep secret what kind of equipment they are using.)

        The fact that Stuxnet appears designed to attack a certain type of Siemens industrial control computer, used widely to manage oil pipelines, electrical power grids and many kinds of nuclear plants, may be telling. Just last year officials in Dubai seized a large shipment of those controllers — known as the Simatic S-7 — after Western intelligence agencies warned that the shipment was bound for Iran and would likely be used in its nuclear program.

      • CloakAndDagger
        CloakAndDagger
        June 1, 2012, 3:10 pm

        @Winnica

        The idea that a piece of software designed for one kind of an organization – a manager of centrifuges, say – could inadvertently impact a totally different kind of organization – a nuclear reactor, say – is laughable.

        Having been responsible computer and software development for several decades, I find your comment about inadvertent side-effects that slipped through QA (or perhaps intentional in this case) laughable.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        June 1, 2012, 6:44 pm

        You’ve never designed a complex software system, have you.

        As a matter of fact I have, but you clearly haven’t seeing as you don’t know the difference between designing software intended for the use if a company or commercial client and s virus/worm.

        The biggest costs associated with  developing software is user interface, testing, debugging, documentation and performance (ie. memory efficiencies).  None of that is a concern to someone coding a virus, clearly because they have no expectation of appealing to any end user – on the contrary, their motivation is to create pain for the recipient.

         The idea that a piece of software designed for one kind of an organization – a manager of centrifuges, say – could inadvertently impact a totally different kind of organization – a nuclear reactor, say – is laughable.

        Laughable to an idiot certainly. It’s clear don’t know anything about control systems and feedback loops.  They essentially are all based on the same software, do what makes one control system malfunction will usually have similar effects on another.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 1, 2012, 7:27 pm

        “The idea that a piece of software designed for one kind of an organization – a manager of centrifuges, say – could inadvertently impact a totally different kind of organization – a nuclear reactor, say – is laughable.”

        Sure! That’s why I have one computer to do spreadsheets, and another one to play music, and another completely different computer to graphics work.
        I’ve got one computer to record music, and another one to play it back…..
        I must admit, Winnica, you did one of the best jobs of validating your own ignorance I’ve seen in a while.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        May 30, 2012, 11:56 am

        I agree with Winnica. It sounds implausible. TEPCO cocked up.
        But if israel had its back to the wall who knows what it would do ?

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        May 30, 2012, 1:09 pm

        “I agree with Winnica.”

        Why? CloakandDagger referenced unconfirmed rumors and Winnica got her panties in a knot, but her subsequent post confirmed that there are, in fact, such rumors.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        May 30, 2012, 3:43 pm

        There may be rumors Woody but they do not sound credible. Israel is bad enough already. I think TEPCO was the problem.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        May 30, 2012, 5:34 pm

        @seafoid

        Fair enough. I think that you’re giving Winnie too much credit. She wasn’t looking at the underlying issue, but doing the “must defend Israel” dance.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        May 31, 2012, 1:28 am

        And the underlying issue, Woody, is… what? Stuxnet attacked centrifuges. No nuclear reactor has centrifuges, which fit into a different part of the chain of supply. I’m rejecting the allegation made by CloakandDagger that Israel and the US ‘will have doomed millions of people around the world on a scale never seen before.” I think any reasonable person would agree, since it’s a harsh allegation, and there’s no credible reason to accept it.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        May 31, 2012, 2:18 am

        Stuxnet attacked centrifuges. No nuclear reactor has centrifuges, which fit into a different part of the chain of supply.

        Wrong again. Stuxnet attacks control systems. Centrifuges are regulated by such control systems, as are cooling systems in nuclear reactors. 

        It does this by forcing the system itself to malfunction or self destruct, while outputting a message to the control centre that everything is normal.  The virus/worm does so by observing normal operation over a period of time, and prints this to the screens in the control room while it destroys whatever plant equipment it controls.  

        Think of it as replacing surveillance video with a loop while the burglary is taking place a la Oceans 11 (or was it 12 or 13).

         For example:

        Reactors operate within a range of permissible temperatures and the control system regulates that temperature by adjusting the amount of coolant pumped through  the system.  

        [The nuclear fission itself is regulated by lifting and raising the fuel rods in and out of the core.]

        The theory behind Stuxnet is that it shuts off the coolant and tells the control system to ignore the rising temperatures recorded by the instrumentation, which would otherwise be triggering off alarms by this stage.  Meanwhile the  displays in the control room would be displaying normal behavior, thereby fooling the operators into thinking everything is normal and not enabling manual over rides.

      • Djinn
        Djinn
        May 31, 2012, 9:12 am

        Ah Winnica the expert in everything demonstrating her skills again, or not as the case may be

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        May 31, 2012, 10:03 am

        Since your premise is false, Winnica, as Shingo notes, because the virus attacks control systems like the ones in the reactor, the rest of your post is nonsensical.

      • Fredblogs
        Fredblogs
        May 31, 2012, 1:02 pm

        @seafoid
        Don’t waste your time Woody Tanaka blames Israel for rainy days.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        May 31, 2012, 2:46 pm

        “Don’t waste your time Woody Tanaka blames Israel for rainy days.”

        LMAO. No, but if the clouds were Israeli, you’d argue that sunny days were anti-semitic.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        June 1, 2012, 10:38 am

        Actually, Djinn, while I indeed have a broad range of qualifications and experience, in a number of unrelated fields, there are vast segments of human activity I know nothing about. I do my best never to say anything about them. But yes, swathes of the discussions on this website fall into the areas I’m very well qualified to address. More so than many of the other people who comment here, tho I don’t recollect you complaining about their occasional unfounded comments.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        June 1, 2012, 10:40 am

        I responded to this above, Woody. Now we wait to see if it passes the moderator. Some of my comments do, others don’t, and never because I use uncivil language.

      • American
        American
        June 1, 2012, 10:57 am

        Tell us what your qualifications are winnie.
        We all want to know and you can do that without revealing your identity.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        June 1, 2012, 11:06 am

        Winnica, I saw the response, and let’s just say that “because they’re different, the idea that one can affect both is laughable” is not much of an argument. If you can point to particular operations in management systems by Siemans that address centrifuges and nuclear fuel rods, and show that, for example, the weakness which Stuxnet attacks in the former does not exist in the latter, that might be something.

        But I would have no problem believing that Siemans’ control systems could contain similar if not idential weaknesses for both kinds of systems in which certain key feedback mechanisms and information output systems could be affected by the same virus.

        It could very well turn out that they cannot, but that is your burden to prove, but the idea itself is certainly not “laughable.”

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 1, 2012, 7:30 pm

        But Shingo, centrifuges go round and round, and fuel rods go up and down (or in and out)! How could the same programming or computers possibly control them? All the centrifuges would hop around like frogs and the fuel rods start spinning really fast. And what would be the harvest of that up-shot?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        June 1, 2012, 7:57 pm

        I indeed have a broad range of qualifications and experience, in a number of unrelated fields

        None of which are direcly related to software developement, control systems, feedback loops, or nuclear science. Correct?

      • libra
        libra
        May 30, 2012, 12:15 pm

        If not, it’s merely slander.

        Who’s been slandered here, Winnie? You do seem to be taking it all rather personally. Is there something you want to tell us?

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        May 30, 2012, 12:37 pm

        That I’m the French developer of Stuxnet, you mean? nah.

      • American
        American
        May 30, 2012, 12:42 pm

        If not, it’s merely slander.”………Winnica

        The thing is winnie, it doesn’t matter if this instance is slander or not.
        Because of all the things Israel has done and all the lies it has told the world is willing to and does believe it will and does do anything.
        This where all your lies and crimes come back to bite you…the world assumes Israel is guilty *because it always has been* in the past.

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        May 30, 2012, 2:13 pm

        American –

        I rather doubt that the readers of Mondoweiss are “the world”. So far as I can see, sometimes Israel’s version is accepted, sometimes it isn’t; many people support Israel no matter what, others damn it no matter what; demographically, most of the world’s 7 billion people probably don’t much care one way or the other.

        30 years ago Israel had diplomatic relations with fewer than half the world’s nations; today it has relations with almost all the non-Muslim ones, and it has commercial relations even with some of those. I don’t see what irrefutable evidence there is for your statement, beyond wishful thinking.

      • Daniel Rich
        Daniel Rich
        May 30, 2012, 6:23 pm

        @ WInnica,

        Q: demographically, most of the world’s 7 billion people probably don’t much care one way or the other.

        R: “So sometimes things are ahead and sometimes they are behind;
        Sometimes breathing is hard, sometimes it comes easily;
        Sometimes there is strength and sometimes weakness;
        Sometimes one is up and sometimes down.
        Therefore the sage avoids extremes, excesses, and complacency.” — Lao Tzu

        Only fools believe they’re invincible, untouchable and will be held unaccountable. Once you step out into the world, it will scare you and you’ll keep your Israeli passport or your Jewish identity out of sight.

      • Theo
        Theo
        May 31, 2012, 12:17 pm

        …..jewish identity out of sight.

        There comes Theo or other people, takes a look at Winnie and says:
        “She sure doesn´t look chinese”!

      • Winnica
        Winnica
        June 1, 2012, 10:42 am

        Daniel –

        The experience of Jews being afraid of their surroundings is not new. Some try and hide their identity, others flaunt it, and both phenomenons go back centuries, and of course pre-date Zionism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 1, 2012, 7:33 pm

        Good old Lao Tzu! Sure, he may be a Chinese sage, but to me, he’s just everyday people.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 1, 2012, 10:40 pm

        “The experience of Jews being afraid of their surroundings is not new.”

        And what makes it all so horrible is the fact that it never happens to anybody else! Let’s take just one example from recent history: the campaign to encourage Africans to come work in the pre-civil-war US. They were offered a large sum just as a sign-up bonus, got a first-class, all-expenses-paid trip on a luxury cruise ship, and when they got here, everybody did everything they could to see they never suffered a moment’s discomfort or fear.
        Would they have treated Jews like that? I doubt it!
        And the things they did to make Asians welcome and comfortable in the US! But Jews had to make it all on their own, in an atmosphere of fear and loathing.

    • CloakAndDagger
      CloakAndDagger
      June 1, 2012, 3:02 pm

      I have been out of pocket for a few days, so I wasn’t able to respond – but it looks like others have done a yeoman job of responding far better than I could.

      Also, thanks to Lysias for his/her post from NYT about the unintended spread of Stuxnet to other countries and the fact that its consequences are not limited to centrifuges as claimed by Winica.

  7. American
    American
    May 30, 2012, 12:47 pm

    The thing about Israel also is that even if they didn’t create it, if the US created it for instance, the Israelis, out of ego and hubris will still say or insinuate that they made it.
    It’s that swarmy bragging thing they can’t resist.

    • Winnica
      Winnica
      May 30, 2012, 2:15 pm

      So: damned if they did it, and damned if they didn’t.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        June 1, 2012, 7:37 pm

        “So: damned if they did it, and damned if they didn’t.”

        You got it, Winnimuca! When you take your religion, and try to turn it into a nationality, to escape the responsibilities of both, nothing good will happen.
        But I don’t disparage you for not knowing that, since you’re not an American. .

    • libra
      libra
      May 30, 2012, 2:22 pm

      American: “It’s that swarmy bragging thing they can’t resist.”

      Indeed, but Winneca’s whining above about “slander” was a perfect Israeli moment which combined the irresistible bragging with the equally compelling victimhood.

      That said, after realising the mistake, our hubristic hasbarist had the chutzpah to blame the French which was at least an amusing, even if totally unconvincing, comeback.

    • NickJOCW
      NickJOCW
      May 30, 2012, 3:00 pm

      My hunch is it is a uniquely US gremlin. Israel knows the US won’t admit to it so tries to reap a bit of peripheral kudos. Does anyone have any idea what or where the 60 Israel/Palestine computer victims are or were.

      • American
        American
        May 30, 2012, 4:02 pm

        Could be several or anyone, India, US….or a collaboration.
        I am a idiot about computers but making sure it only hits Iran, if that’s all it hits, sounds like it might take some cooperation to keep it from spreading….or that it was installed only in certain computers that went to Iran to begin with which was suggested back when the other virus hit.

      • Daniel Rich
        Daniel Rich
        May 30, 2012, 6:28 pm

        @ American,

        Have a look at PLC rootkits, SCADA and Siemens. Perhaps that will give you a bit more insight.

      • American
        American
        May 31, 2012, 2:47 am

        This is basically what I read the first time around on Seimens and Iran…well I actually read more put out by the hacker community and some other non political/non msm/ non government experts….but this sums it up what happened before…so it sounds like the same Siemens, US Isr connection to me in this latest attack.

        ‘Stuxnet is a computer worm discovered in June 2010. It initially spreads via Microsoft Windows, and targets Siemens industrial software and equipment. While it is not the first time that hackers have targeted industrial systems,[1] it is the first discovered malware that spies on and subverts industrial systems,[2] and the first to include a programmable logic controller (PLC) rootkit.[3][4]

        The worm initially spreads indiscriminately, but includes a highly specialized malware payload that is designed to target only Siemens supervisory control and data acquisition (SCADA) systems that are configured to control and monitor specific industrial processes.[5][6] Stuxnet infects PLCs by subverting the Step-7 software application that is used to reprogram these devices.[7][8]

        Different variants of Stuxnet targeted five Iranian organizations,[9] with the probable target widely suspected to be uranium enrichment infrastructure in Iran;[10][11][8] Symantec noted in August 2010 that 60% of the infected computers worldwide were in Iran.[12] Siemens stated on 29 November that the worm has not caused any damage to its customers,[13] but the Iran nuclear program, which uses embargoed Siemens equipment procured secretly, has been damaged by Stuxnet.[14][15] Kaspersky Lab concluded that the sophisticated attack could only have been conducted “with nation-state support”.[16] This was further supported by the F-Secure’s chief researcher Mikko Hyppönen who commented in a Stuxnet FAQ, “That’s what it would look like, yes”.[17] It has been speculated that Israel[18] and the United States may have been involved.[19][20]

        In May 2011, the PBS program Need To Know cited a statement by Gary Samore, White House Coordinator for Arms Control and Weapons of Mass Destruction, in which he said, “we’re glad they [the Iranians] are having trouble with their centrifuge machine and that we – the US and its allies – are doing everything we can to make sure that we complicate matters for them”, offering “winking acknowledgement” of US involvement in Stuxnet.[21] According to Daily Telegraph, a showreel that was played at a retirement party for the head of the Israel Defence Forces (IDF), Gabi Ashkenazi, included references to Stuxnet as one of his operational successes as the IDF chief of staff.

  8. Rusty Pipes
    Rusty Pipes
    May 30, 2012, 2:29 pm

    Looks like FLAME, the virus, is as much a part of the info-war toolkit as Facts and Logic About the Middle East serves hasbara.

  9. Rusty Pipes
    Rusty Pipes
    May 30, 2012, 2:37 pm

    For over five years, I have experienced similar problems with my computer and network of internet I/P advocates. For mentioning such problems, I have been smeared as a conspiracy theorist by the Posse at the Garish Orange Site.

  10. Keith
    Keith
    May 30, 2012, 2:44 pm

    “Flame exploits vulnerabilities in the Windows operating system.”

    I have read things which lead me to believe that the CIA supported Microsoft when it started out because they allowed a trap door in their software for clandestine access. The full extent of covert machinations is likely high. I suspect that “Flame” is a collaborative venture. Third World countries would be well advised to avoid Windows and develop their own. Israel has a long history of intellectual thievery and cyber crime and is not to be trusted. Ever.

    • lysias
      lysias
      May 30, 2012, 5:19 pm

      I have read things which lead me to believe that the CIA supported Microsoft

      CIA, or NSA?

      • Keith
        Keith
        May 30, 2012, 11:56 pm

        CIA which, I believe, recruits heavily at Harvard where both Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg went to school, neither graduating, both “geniuses” whose personal fortunes skyrocketed beyond any reasonable expectation. I also wonder about Wallmart, whose success is also non-typical and somewhat inexplicable. The men in the shadows cast a wide net.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      June 1, 2012, 7:42 pm

      “Israel has a long history of intellectual thievery and cyber crime and is not to be trusted. Ever.”

      Hey, the Israelis are just doing what God tells them to, and if you don’t believe me, ask Him yourself.
      And BTW, “I was only following orders” may not get you off at Nuremberg, but they were only obeying Hitler. Hitler wasn’t God, you know!

  11. quercus
    quercus
    May 30, 2012, 2:56 pm

    American. You mean “smarmy” bragging thing, rather than “swarmy”? I was going to comment about that particularly piece of smarminess myself. It is a particularly odious and chauvinistic trait this claim (which is not true) of intellectual superiority.

  12. FreddyV
    FreddyV
    May 30, 2012, 4:19 pm

    If it’s proven that Israel have been responsible for viruses, the blowback could be massive.

    Software companies like Microsoft don’t like this stuff and will consider whether to outsource development a country that has state sponsored cyber terrorism.

    It may even go as far as to intensifying scrutiny on employees in the US and overseas who have links to Israel.

    I’m sure Israel will scream ‘Jewish boycott’ a’la 1933, but in this instance, they’ll only have themselves to blame.

    • lysias
      lysias
      May 30, 2012, 5:18 pm

      But if the U.S. has been involved in developing Flame, what will those software firms do then?

  13. FreddyV
    FreddyV
    May 30, 2012, 6:41 pm

    I think they believe they’re beyond national boundaries. They’ll be pissed off that people are tampering with their product.

  14. Shingo
    Shingo
    May 30, 2012, 8:36 pm

    Like the Stuxnet and Duqu malware, which many believe to have originated in Israel, Flame exploits vulnerabilities in the Windows operating system.

    Way to go Israel. Nothing like accelerating the exosdus from Windows. Microsoft must be emmensely happy yhat theur investment in Israel is paying such wonderful dividends.

  15. Abdul-Rahman
    Abdul-Rahman
    May 31, 2012, 9:12 am

    “Fredblogs” there is no supposed “threat” of Iran (who unlike nuclear armed Israel that still refuses to sign the NPT treaty or open Dimona up to IAEA inspectors, Iran only has a peaceful nuclear energy program) allegedly “nuking” anyone. The main claims against Iran under President Ahmadinejad (who is leaving office soon anyway) have centered around a portion of a speech taken out of context that hinted at most for calls for regime change against the Zionist regime (http://antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025) and Ahmadinejad saying the Zionists use the Holocaust (which he may be referred to as a revisionist on) to justify themselves and their crimes; especially against the Palestinians something say Professor Norm Finkelstein has noted as well (http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/106996.html).

    But unlike Israel, Iran has never attacked or invaded any other nation in modern times (something the Iranian people are very proud of). And as for a supposed “deterrent” Israeli officials have made statements saying their supposed “deterrent” (that on a side note they were also willing to help their allies in the Apartheid South African regime obtain http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons) is clearly to be used if the spoiled child (spawn) of the West, has its Zionist colonization project challenged as Martin van Creveld stated quite absurdly when he claimed the Zionists were under “threat” in 2003: “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets for our air force…. We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under.”

  16. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    May 31, 2012, 11:17 am

    The scientific achievements of Israel are no doubt very impressive, though I could wish they were differently directed.
    I certainly think that the remarks quoted by Ira amount to ‘claiming credit’ without ‘admitting responsibility’ and it will probably be a long time before we have proof of the real nature of these events. I rather expect this sort of publicity to be created quite often, the Superiors sneering at the Inferiors and commenting loudly (but with that underlying insecurity that we can all hear through their professionally confident voices) that we know how to keep them in their place. There will be a succession of quietly dramatic names – Flame, Flood, Swarm (not Smarm) – to keep everyone amused and impressed. I’m inclined to think that the publicity is good news, bluster and sneers covering a quiet walking back from the threats of war. But I could be wrong, couldn’t I?
    Just to say how valuable Ira’s contributions are.

  17. lysias
    lysias
    June 1, 2012, 10:38 am

    Well, now we know who devised Stuxnet. It was devised by the U.S. (NSA, with White House approval), with aid from Israeli intelligence.

    New York Times: Obama Order Sped Up Wave of Cyberattacks Against Iran:

    WASHINGTON — From his first months in office, President Obama secretly ordered increasingly sophisticated attacks on the computer systems that run Iran’s main nuclear enrichment facilities, significantly expanding America’s first sustained use of cyberweapons, according to participants in the program.

    Mr. Obama decided to accelerate the attacks — begun in the Bush administration and code-named Olympic Games — even after an element of the program accidentally became public in the summer of 2010 because of a programming error that allowed it to escape Iran’s Natanz plant and sent it around the world on the Internet. Computer security experts who began studying the worm, which had been developed by the United States and Israel, gave it a name: Stuxnet.

    . . .

    It took months for the beacons to do their work and report home, complete with maps of the electronic directories of the controllers and what amounted to blueprints of how they were connected to the centrifuges deep underground.

    Then the N.S.A. and a secret Israeli unit respected by American intelligence officials for its cyberskills set to work developing the enormously complex computer worm that would become the attacker from within.

    The unusually tight collaboration with Israel was driven by two imperatives. Israel’s Unit 8200, a part of its military, had technical expertise that rivaled the N.S.A.’s, and the Israelis had deep intelligence about operations at Natanz that would be vital to making the cyberattack a success. But American officials had another interest, to dissuade the Israelis from carrying out their own pre-emptive strike against the Iranian nuclear facilities. To do that, the Israelis would have to be convinced that the new line of attack was working. The only way to convince them, several officials said in interviews, was to have them deeply involved in every aspect of the program.

    What’s most disturbing in the article is how Stuxnet escaped:

    But the good luck did not last. In the summer of 2010, shortly after a new variant of the worm had been sent into Natanz, it became clear that the worm, which was never supposed to leave the Natanz machines, had broken free, like a zoo animal that found the keys to the cage. It fell to Mr. Panetta and two other crucial players in Olympic Games — General Cartwright, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Michael J. Morell, the deputy director of the C.I.A. — to break the news to Mr. Obama and Mr. Biden.

    An error in the code, they said, had led it to spread to an engineer’s computer when it was hooked up to the centrifuges. When the engineer left Natanz and connected the computer to the Internet, the American- and Israeli-made bug failed to recognize that its environment had changed. It began replicating itself all around the world. Suddenly, the code was exposed, though its intent would not be clear, at least to ordinary computer users.

    “We think there was a modification done by the Israelis,” one of the briefers told the president, “and we don’t know if we were part of that activity.”

    Mr. Obama, according to officials in the room, asked a series of questions, fearful that the code could do damage outside the plant. The answers came back in hedged terms. Mr. Biden fumed. “It’s got to be the Israelis,” he said. “They went too far.”

    In fact, both the Israelis and the Americans had been aiming for a particular part of the centrifuge plant, a critical area whose loss, they had concluded, would set the Iranians back considerably. It is unclear who introduced the programming error.

    So the escape was not intended, at any rate not intended by the White House. If the unintended could happen, who’s to say there could not also have been an unintended effect on Fukushima?

    • American
      American
      June 1, 2012, 1:28 pm

      Glad you posted that, just saw it on Sean feed and was about to do same.
      This should clear up any questions about Flame’s origins.
      And it should once again point out the danger of letting Israel into our operations because they will ALWAYS go too far.
      No expert in cyberwarfare but I know that whatever code is created someone else always can and will find a way to pentrate it or minipulate it.

      • lysias
        lysias
        June 1, 2012, 3:26 pm

        Article from Yomiuri Shimbun of Oct. 5, 2010:

        Stuxnet, a computer virus designed to attack servers isolated from the Internet, such as at power plants, has been confirmed on 63 personal computers in Japan since July, according to major security firm Symantec Corp.

        The virus does not cause any damage online, but once it enters an industrial system, it can send a certain program out of control.

        Symantec says the virus reaches the servers via USB memory sticks, and warns against the careless use of such devices.

        Systems at power plants, gas stations and water facilities are not connected to the Internet to protect them from cyber-attacks.

        A Symantec engineer who has analyzed the virus said it was made using advanced technology, and it is highly likely a well-funded organization, not an individual, produced it. The virus has spread throughout the globe via the Internet.

        After Stuxnet finds its way onto an ordinary computer via the Internet, it hides there, waiting for a USB memory stick to be connected to the computer, when it transfers itself to the memory stick. When the USB device is then connected to a computer linked to an isolated server, it can enter the system and take control of it.

        As computers that harbor Stuxnet do not operate strangely, the virus can be transferred to a memory stick inadvertently.

        According to the security company, the virus is designed to target a German-made program often used in systems managing water, gas and oil pipelines. The program is used at public utilities around the world, including in Japan.

        The virus could cause such systems to act erratically, and it could take months to restore them to normal.

        The 63 infected computers found in Japan were likely infected sometime after June.

        According to the company, about 60 percent of the computers that have been infected with the virus were discovered in Iran. Since September, about 30,000 computers there have been found to be infected with the virus. The country’s Industry and Mines Ministry has called the virus an electronic act of war.

        Some computers at the Iranian Bushehr nuclear power plant, which is scheduled to begin operation in October, have been infected with the virus.

        A supervisor at the plant said the virus has not damaged the facility’s main computer system and would not affect its planned opening.

        In Japan, no public utilities have been affected by the virus. Nevertheless, the Cabinet Office’s National Information Security Center has urged electric power companies to exercise extreme care when using USB devices, and to scan any programs that may have been tampered with.

      • CloakAndDagger
        CloakAndDagger
        June 1, 2012, 6:14 pm

        Great find lysias! This rumor is starting to sound more credible, protestations by Winnica notwithstanding.

      • American
        American
        June 1, 2012, 6:29 pm

        Yes, indeed it is.
        IMO once you insert any program on anything connect to a net your chance of totally controlling it are slim to none.

      • annie
        annie
        June 1, 2012, 6:31 pm

        here is a video from Symantec Corp that describes how the virus works:

        http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/stuxnet-breakthrough

        the nyt article cited Symantec Corp

        It appears to be the first time the United States has repeatedly used cyberweapons to cripple another country’s infrastructure, achieving, with computer code, what until then could be accomplished only by bombing a country or sending in agents to plant explosives. The code itself is 50 times as big as the typical computer worm, Carey Nachenberg, a vice president of Symantec, one of the many groups that have dissected the code, said at a symposium at Stanford University in April. Those forensic investigations into the inner workings of the code, while picking apart how it worked, came to no conclusions about who was responsible.

        and here is a link to Symantec’s ‘white paper’ W32.Stuxnet Dossier: http://www.symantec.com/connect/blogs/w32stuxnet-dossier

      • lysias
        lysias
        June 1, 2012, 6:37 pm

        Winnica did seem to me to be protesting a bit too much.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        June 1, 2012, 7:02 pm

        “And it should once again point out the danger of letting Israel into our operations because they will ALWAYS go too far”

        The Jonathan Pollard doctrine

  18. CloakAndDagger
    CloakAndDagger
    June 1, 2012, 8:03 pm

    Prof Walt has a great article on FP about doing unto others as we would have them do unto us:

    http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/06/01/breaking_the_golden_rule_0

    Remember back in 2009, when Obama supposedly extended the “hand of friendship” to Iran? At the same time that he was making friendly video broadcasts, he was also escalating our cyber-war efforts against Iran.

    How stupid do we think these people are? More importantly, how stupid are we ourselves to continue to elect people like these to represent us, who immediately fall on their knees before AIPAC and the Israel-firsters?

    And if we keep doing unto others in this way, it’s only a matter of time before someone does it unto us in return.

    China and Russia are giving us all the rope we need to hang ourselves. They are blissfully sitting on the sidelines growing their economy while they watch Israel bleed us to death in the ME. When we are fully spent, they can step in without firing a single shot to become the dominant world powers.

    We keep wondering: “Why do they hate us?”

    If anybody is stupid enough to still be wondering about that, they deserve to have their butts kicked till eternity.

    • annie
      annie
      June 1, 2012, 9:19 pm

      They are blissfully sitting on the sidelines growing their economy while they watch Israel bleed us to death in the ME.

      exactly.

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