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‘I love the Jewish people’ is refrain in NYT homage to American Jews joining Israeli army

Israel/Palestine
on 72 Comments

A New York Times report on 127 American Jews going to serve in the Israeli army often reads like a promotion of the idea of dual loyalty. The word “love” is used 8 times in the piece, including in the headline, “Enlisting From Afar for the Love of Israel.” And the piece features this frankly-Israelist statement:

“Their motivation is often way higher than the average Israeli,” said Col. Shuli Ayal, who oversees the lone-soldier program. “They want to make their service as meaningful as possible.”

Did any of these people consider enlisting in the U.S. army? the Times doesn’t ask. Of 22-year-old Josh Warhit, an American Jew who is the focus of the piece, Marsha Cohen tells me: “If he were a Muslim and going anywhere else in the world, he’d be labeled a brainwashed jihadi.”

Here are the love references:

Enlisting From Afar for the Love of Israel

Josh Warhit: “I love the Jewish people. Love involves commitment.”

“I hope to spend my time in Israel protecting those I love, not torturing those who hate me,” Mr. Rechenbach, also 22, said in an e-mail interview ahead of the flight

“You want to teach your kids to love Israel, but you don’t want them necessarily to take you so literally,” his mother, Ilissa Warhit, said

“I love my family, I love my friends and I love the Jewish people.” [Warhit]

Do Americans who go serve in a foreign army lose their citizenship? Good question. Apparently that was once true, no longer. Note the rules from the State Dept. here, and an interpretation of dual citizenship here. Why didn’t the Times raise this issue? Is the occupation in American interests?

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About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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72 Responses

  1. yourstruly
    yourstruly
    August 16, 2012, 10:42 am

    should the u.s. government threaten to take away their u.s. citizenship, how long before these israel firsters would come scurrying home?

  2. MLE
    MLE
    August 16, 2012, 11:13 am

    I think there’s a loophole for people with dual citizenship in a country that has mandatory military service. A classmate in highschool from South Korea had to go back and do his army service once he graduated highschool, otherwise, he would have problems every time he went back, even for a visit. One of my Egyptian friends went back home for summer vacation and then was not allowed to leave Egypt to go back to school until he sorted out his military service, and I knew some people who were staying on outdated visas because they were waiting to go back when they were no longer required to do their army. So for an American with additional nationalities that require military service, staying in the army for a few years because it’s required shouldn’t preclude you from coming back home.

    So for an Israeli family who moved to the States but went to Israel every few years to visit their family, once the kids turned 18, they couldn’t go visit family anymore because the Israeli authorities wouldn’t let them out (if you were born in Israel, you have to travel there under your Israeli passport, even if youre like my mom and left 50 years ago).

    However, I don’t think this should apply to these kids as they are taking Israeli citizenship specifically to join the army. Voluntarily joining another country’s armed forces should require you to hand back your American citizenship.

    • annie
      annie
      August 16, 2012, 11:52 am

      I don’t think this should apply to these kids as they are taking Israeli citizenship specifically to join the army.

      i agree. so what do you think of phil’s question? Why didn’t the Times raise this issue? Is the occupation in American interests?

      • American
        American
        August 16, 2012, 12:45 pm

        “Is the occupation in American interests?”

        No brainer. I have ask those who claim the American “colonization”
        theory in Israel’s occupaiton a 1000 times to name me a benefit the US gets from Israel’s colonization of Palestine.

        Usually they veer off that specific question about the occupation and give me some mumbo jumbo about how the elites–like the defense industry–makes money off Israel.
        Which is inacurate also becuase Israel is actually a “competitor” with the US defense industry and weapons export are Israel’s Number One economic sector and industry with IT being second. Israel ‘exports’ more weapons to other countries than it ‘imports or buys from the US. For instance India buys more weapons from Israel than it does from the US makers and numerous other countries buy their weapons from Israel. Plus the fact that Israel uses the tech it gets from US weapons manufactures to tweak it in their own production to sell to other countries thereby cutting into possible sales of US makers. It’s possible the defense maker don’t mind selling to Israel for them them to resale to China and other countries they are prohibited from selling to but still 3 billion is small drop in the bucket of US world wide weapons sales. If the US didn’t share it weapons tech with Israel for them to replicate and resell other countries would ‘have to’ buy from the US to get it. So that claim that the defense industry benefits from several
        billion in sales to Israel when it loses just as much or more from Israeli competition is nonsense.
        If we didn’t give Israel 3 billion in weapons they would lose 3 billion in their own weapons sales because they would have to keep more of their production for their own use.

        But I have a PS question–when these people take Israeli citizenship and then move back to the US do they get to vote in Israel’s elections as the US Jews who move to Israel and become Israeli citizens still get to vote in US elections?

      • MLE
        MLE
        August 16, 2012, 12:53 pm

        Because the article is pretty much an infomercial for American Jews to go enlist. A real article would address those issues and dive into the real question of where exactly do their loyalties lie? America and Israel are allies, but if it came to a point where we were on different sides of a conflict, what exactly would they do?

        It’s not even an issue of racism or singling out American Jews- Mexican Americans can show pride in their Mexican heritage and wave the Mexican flag all they want but if war broke out between the US and Mexico, 90% of them would fight on the side of the US, without question. Hawaii has a huge Japanese population from the importation of field laborers in the 19th century and they fought on the US side during World War IÍ under the motto, Remember Pearl Harbor. Every ethnic group that has emigrated to the United States has attempted to prove that they are American first, even if they continue the traditions from the old country.

        These kids are traitors, plain and simple. If they want to serve their country, they should serve in the US military. If they want to serve in the Israeli army, then they can go but leave their passports behind.

        They’re not even being typical expats or Aliyah types, who are moving for spiritual, business or family related purposes. It’s purely military.

      • kapok
        kapok
        August 16, 2012, 1:32 pm

        If they want to serve their country, they should serve in the US military?

        Better: If they want to protect a narrow strata of US elites they should serve in the US military.

      • CloakAndDagger
        CloakAndDagger
        August 16, 2012, 1:34 pm

        These kids are traitors, plain and simple. If they want to serve their country, they should serve in the US military. If they want to serve in the Israeli army, then they can go but leave their passports behind.

        @ MLE
        Very well said! I couldn’t agree more!

        I wish there was more discussion about dual citizenship and more people were aware about how many people in our government are dual citizens – something that I think should be completely forbidden, where your dual loyalties can affect national policies.

      • American
        American
        August 16, 2012, 2:14 pm

        “These kids are traitors, plain and simple.”…MLE

        Maybe, but they’re 2o somethings , most of us were idiots in some regards at 22 also too.
        Some one taught them this.
        Taking their citizenship would be a good lesson and send a message to the people, parents or community, that instilled this in them.
        But it’s not happening.

      • American
        American
        August 16, 2012, 2:32 pm

        It’s not even an issue of racism or singling out American Jews- Mexican Americans can show pride in their Mexican heritage and wave the Mexican flag all they want but if war broke out between the US and Mexico, 90% of them would fight on the side of the US, without question. Hawaii has a huge Japanese population from the importation of field laborers in the 19th century and they fought on the US side during World War IÍ under the motto, Remember Pearl Harbor. Every ethnic group that has emigrated to the United States has attempted to prove that they are American first, even if they continue the traditions from the old country.”..MLE

        That was absolutely true.
        And this is where I see liberalism has gone too far into the ‘free to be you and me” diversity on ‘steriods’. I literally gag at the me,me,me-ism of people spending all their time on finding their identity, studying their uniqueness, wanting everyone to recongize the uniqueness of their ‘me’ means they don’t abide by any common ground rules.
        No wonder half the nation is on tranquilzers or uppers or downers…they’re sick from thinking about their ‘me’ too much.

      • MLE
        MLE
        August 16, 2012, 3:23 pm

        Yes, but a teenager can get mixed up with the wrong crowd and commit a crime and get sentenced as an adult, when you’re 18 and you enlist in the army, there are serious consequences for saying, “Whoops, changed my mind- I wanted to be stationed in Hawaii, not Afghanistan” so as twenty something’s, they should face the music and have their citizenship revoked. If they want to come back to the US, they can re-apply and go through the process like a non citizen. Actually, they should have to enlist in the US army at the lowest level and be assigned to dig latrines for 3 years.

        I went to Zionist camp so i know what put this in their heads. These camps and Jewish organization treat the IDF like its a cool club you can join when you’re 18. They have a fitness class that’s modeled like a boot camp, they send cute Israeli soldiers over for a few weeks who gush about how they make friends for life in the army. You get to hold and shoot guns! It’s a cross between a fraternity/sorority and a study abroad trip. At 13, even I had the idea it would be cool to join the IDF. These organizations make it glamorous to be in the IDF. They should face the consequences for sending the precious little snowflakes to join a foreign army.

        Also, I hope the Israeli kids haze the shit out of them. They earn 3x the salary of an Israeli soldier and get all the extra perks, all while doing the same jobs? And they get to keep the US passport, which is a golden ticket that allows you entrance into almost every country in the world with little hassle or paperwork. Serious, fuck those little brats.

      • MLE
        MLE
        August 16, 2012, 3:46 pm

        True, but the point is I have a feeling these people would never join the US army. Like they view the US army for poor people or the dropouts who join the army like its vocational training. But the Israeli army is cool and glamorous and all the soldiers look like models.

        The one who wants to be a medic can join doctors without borders, the guy longing to be in the canine unit can get involved in land mine removal, they can volunteer as UN Peacekeepers, Peace Corps, Red Cross,digging wells, providing HIV education and family planning services,or find some other organization. If they’re so desperate to be in Israel, then they can make Aliyah and work on a kibbutz for a year (none of the people I know who did that lasted more than a few months). Theyre joining an army and acting like they’re doing Tikkun Olam. No- you’re joining an army, which is the opposite of peace.

        Also, what happens if these kids get homesick or change their mind about the whole thing- do they just get to resign and fly home like nothing happened? Are they considered deserters and face jail time? Or if they do something that gets them a dishonorable discharge, it would be pretty hard for an employer to find out about the military record from a foreign army, especially if they don’t disclose it.

      • American
        American
        August 16, 2012, 4:03 pm

        @MLE

        I agree, dont disagree with anything at all you said.
        I just keep think about the whole Zionist/Israel machine in the Jewish community…..those organizations like the Camp you went to.
        And getting paid 3 x what regular IDF do shows you just how sleezy the whole set up is.
        Netanyahu has fuckwad for brains by setting up these US Jews for special pay and prilivages above his domestic draftees.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        August 16, 2012, 5:44 pm

        MLE,

        RE: “… when you’re 18 and you enlist in the army, there are serious consequences for saying, “Whoops, changed my mind- I wanted to be stationed in Hawaii, not Afghanistan””

        Yes there are. And if you’re not represented by a lawyer when you are age 18, and you go to the recruiting office alone and enlist, you are still bound by your contract, even when, for example, you sign on condition you are sent to a specific specialized training and the Army sends you instead to something totally different–even if you tell them truthfully that the separate waiver slip they said you signed was given for you to sign in a hurry when you were in the rushed line, being issued your uniform gear, which was rolling down the conveyer belt –and the supply sergeant who gave the slip to you to sign identified it as “just a receipt for your gear.”

        OTOH, that’s for the average poor naive Joe, it appears, not the other sort with a special kind of clout, as illustrated here:

        “He returned to the US and fought to get out of his contract to serve in the [US Army} Rangers. After it was annulled, Dabush boarded a plane back to Israel where he immediately enlisted in the IDF.”
        http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=228225

      • MLE
        MLE
        August 16, 2012, 6:21 pm

        Was his citizenship revoked at least?

      • Stephen Shenfield
        Stephen Shenfield
        August 16, 2012, 7:07 pm

        Yes. My concern is what they are helping that foreign army to do, not the act of joining a foreign army per se. If some American kids joined the Irish or Swiss army (assuming that were possible) it wouldn’t upset me because those are purely defensive armies. Or suppose the US attacked some Latin American country whose government it didn’t like, as it has so often in the past, and some idealistic American kids joined the army of the country being attacked. I would regard that as admirable. A campaign against “traitors” might start with the Zionists, but it would also target progressive Americans, so I’d sooner avoid this particular line of invective.

      • Sheldonrichman
        Sheldonrichman
        August 17, 2012, 7:39 am

        “They earn 3x the salary of an Israeli soldier and get all the extra perks, all while doing the same jobs?”

        Can anyone link to something that documents this?

      • thetumta
        thetumta
        August 16, 2012, 9:26 pm

        Not to mention the looming war crimes they’ve planned for Iran and us. I really think you need to re-focus off the occupation. Likud is preparing to wrap that up in a couple of days. There will be no occupation to speak of.
        Hej!

      • Sheldonrichman
        Sheldonrichman
        August 17, 2012, 7:34 am

        Because the Times doesn’t see it as dual loyalty. It sees it as single loyalty.

    • Light
      Light
      August 16, 2012, 11:53 am

      The loophole as far as I know requires that one do the minimal service. No volunteering, no pursuit of rank and no taking oaths of allegiance.

      • MLE
        MLE
        August 16, 2012, 2:48 pm

        Well the obviously they are breaking it.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 16, 2012, 9:46 pm

        “no taking oaths of allegiance.”

        Can you be inducted into any armed service anywhere without an oath of allegiance?

  3. Light
    Light
    August 16, 2012, 11:47 am

    From your links

    “entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);”

    Note that in the US Army one only needs to be sergeant to be an nco. In the Marine Corps even a corporal is a nco.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 16, 2012, 12:40 pm

      @ Light
      Intent to give up US citizenship is still required, even for an officer in the IDF. When I was in the US Army a corporal was an nco (2 stripes, E4, but not an E4 who was a Specialist).

      • lysias
        lysias
        August 16, 2012, 2:56 pm

        E4 is an NCO in all the services. When I was an Air Force E4 (called Sergeant then, but now Senior Airman,) I was an NCO. Army and Marine Corps corporals stationed with me were also NCO’s. When I later switched to the Naval Reserve, I was an NCO as an E5 (Petty Officer Second Class) and as an E6 (Petty Officer First Class). I was never an E4 (Petty Officer Third Class) in the Navy, but, if I had been, I would have been an NCO then too.

        Except that, as you said, an Army Specialist E4 (called a “Spec 4” when I served alongside Army soldiers) is not considered an NCO.

  4. American
    American
    August 16, 2012, 11:53 am

    How do you ‘love’ a group of 12 million people. .as in really love love love them?…and probably only really know 100 of them at best?
    I ‘love’ my family, I love some people. I don’t like “Love” all Americans.
    If there were some Americans and some Canadians being held by some mad man threatening to kill to them I wouldn’t be thinking save the Americans , don’t kill the Americans, I’d be thinking save these ‘people’.
    I can’t say I love the Palestines when I don’t really even know them, I can care and feel deeply for their plight as human beings.
    Course I am not taught that it’s me and mine or my kind against the world…which is what the love the Jews thing is in Jews.
    It would be interesting to be around 200 years from now and see if this mentality is still going on.

  5. tear-stained uzi
    tear-stained uzi
    August 16, 2012, 12:08 pm

    “I hope to spend my time in Israel protecting those I love, not torturing those who hate me,” Mr. Rechenbach, also 22, said in an e-mail interview ahead of the flight.

    “But if I gotta get a little rough, you know, bring down the ol’ krauthammer…” he added, his voice trailing off. “Me, I should kvetch? Those Arabs, they wanna push us all into the ocean.”

    An IDF spokeswoman in attendance assured Mr. Rechenbach that the Israeli Army does not torture. “And if we do, we do it in strict accordance with established Old Testament moral protocols, under rabbinical supervision,” she said.

    • kapok
      kapok
      August 16, 2012, 1:37 pm

      lol, funny cuz it’s true.

    • ColinWright
      ColinWright
      August 16, 2012, 4:50 pm

      “An IDF spokeswoman in attendance assured Mr. Rechenbach that the Israeli Army does not torture. “And if we do, we do it in strict accordance with established Old Testament moral protocols, under rabbinical supervision,” she said.”

      Lol. That’s reassuring. Before I add this to my repertoire, got a source?

  6. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870
    August 16, 2012, 12:24 pm

    RE: “I love my family, I love my friends and I love the Jewish people.” [Warhit]

    MY COMMENT: I think I can honestly say that I do not especially love any particular race, nationality, ethnicity or religion. Is that so very wrong of me?
    Perhaps I’m just a freak.

    • philweiss
      philweiss
      August 16, 2012, 1:07 pm

      hannah arendt said as much when gershom scholem said you dont love the jewish people

      • Stephen Shenfield
        Stephen Shenfield
        August 16, 2012, 7:18 pm

        If the Zionists thought of “the Jewish people” as an aggregate of X million individuals, even they would see that it makes no sense to talk about loving such an aggregate. But for them, as for other organic nationalists, “the Jewish people” is not an aggregate of individuals but a single living organism with its own life (“the Jewish people lives” — in the singular). When they contemplate that imaginary organism, they have gooey feelings that they call “love” (as in “love of God”).

    • annie
      annie
      August 16, 2012, 2:27 pm

      i wasn’t raised to associate myself with a group other than my immediate family. it’s just not something i associate with or have passed on to my child.

      that’s different than having political or ideological associations, but they are all people i found and chose myself and migrated towards. not something passed on from my parents based on my ethnicity.

    • German Lefty
      German Lefty
      August 16, 2012, 4:30 pm

      @ Dickerson:
      I think I can honestly say that I do not especially love any particular race, nationality, ethnicity or religion. Is that so very wrong of me? Perhaps I’m just a freak.
      If you are a freak, then I am a freak, too.

    • thetumta
      thetumta
      August 16, 2012, 9:36 pm

      Completely normal actually. Too bad you belong to such a tiny minority!
      Hej!

    • Sheldonrichman
      Sheldonrichman
      August 17, 2012, 7:32 am

      Then I am one too.

  7. DICKERSON3870
    DICKERSON3870
    August 16, 2012, 12:30 pm

    RE: “Do Americans who go serve in a foreign army lose their citizenship? Good question. Apparently that was once true, no longer. . . Why didn’t the Times raise this issue? Is the occupation in American interests?” ~ Weiss

    MY QUESTION: Is the occupation (or at least not strenuously opposing it) in the interests of the New York Times?

    • DICKERSON3870
      DICKERSON3870
      August 16, 2012, 1:00 pm

      RE: “Is the occupation (or at least not strenuously opposing it) in the interests of the New York Times?” – me, above

      ADDITIONAL COMMENT: After all, not “rocking the boat” can certainly assist in Manufacturing Consent (and maximizing profits).
      And with Rupert Murdoch and the Wall Street Journal breathing down its neck, the NYT certainly wouldn’t want to antagonize any advertisers or subscibers, would they?!?! Or even Ed Koch and his bosom buddy John Hagee!
      Not to mention that they have that swank, new Renzo Piano skyscraper to pay for!
      And let’s not forget that Israel is a “much-loved surrogate homeland and ethnic status symbol“, to borrow from Howard Sachar.
      Priorities, priorities, priorities! ! !

      P.S. Oh dear, am I being too harsh?

  8. Erasmus
    Erasmus
    August 16, 2012, 12:46 pm

    Question:

    i would like to know : is there any other country in this world where you can enlist in another country’s army and maintain your full civic rights entitlements in another country of which you are resident and passport holder??

    This US-Israel arrangement appears to me very unique……
    Maybe American democracy is also defended on the Golan – as currently in the Hindukush?

  9. irmep
    irmep
    August 16, 2012, 12:52 pm

    “entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);”

    This is why the US quickly stripped Michael Oren of his citizenship after he became an officer spokesperson for the IDF in 2006….not.

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 16, 2012, 6:42 pm

      @ irmep
      Oren’s on Fox News now, spilling out a laundry list of all the nefarious things Iran is doing to the US these days, of which all are lies, all proven BS–but he looks real sincere and real white, with nice crop of white great silver hair to boot–a whole news special devoted to lies, to blatantly beating those war drums louder, louder–the interviewing him is in love, no follow up tough questions about what Oren’s spewing out.

  10. MHughes976
    MHughes976
    August 16, 2012, 2:08 pm

    Disliking or hating people on grounds of their race or ancestry is illogical and unfair to members of the relevant group. But loving people on the same grounds is not that much better, just as illogical and just as unfair, even though it is everyone outside rather than inside the group who is unfairly treated.

  11. yourstruly
    yourstruly
    August 16, 2012, 2:14 pm

    these young israel firsters are handing al qaeda & the taliban some propaganda bonanza, because in their recruitment efforts and with a measure of validity they can now say “not only is america giving the zionist entity economic and military support, it’s sending its jewish youth to fight alongside zionist usurpers against the palestinian people”. And any success in such efforts could translate into american casualties. The seven u.s. soldiers killed when the helicopter was shot down today in Kandaher province, for example? Was the taliban responsible for the downing of said helicopter and, if so, was this blowback (at least in part)) for u.s. support of the zionist entity? after all ex-general david petreaus and vice president joe biden, among others, have told us that israel’s intransigence vis-a-vis a peace accord with the palestinians endangers our troops in afghanistan. that’s not to say that afghans don’t have other reasons for being resentful of america, such as its occupation of their homeland, but if there’s one issue that’s a perpetual irritant in the arab/islamic world, it’s the israeli occupation of palestine.

  12. chinese box
    chinese box
    August 16, 2012, 2:14 pm

    “You want to teach your kids to love Israel, but you don’t want them necessarily to take you so literally,” his mother, Ilissa Warhit, said in a telephone interview after what she described as 24 hours of nonstop tears.

    —————————————————————-

    New idea for a self help book: “When Someone You Love Loves Israel Too Much”

    Seriously, what is it about America that these kids find so defective that the only way of fulfilling their unmet needs is going to a foreign nation to harrass people at checkpoints?

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 17, 2012, 8:47 am

      @ chinese box,

      “You want to teach your kids to love Israel, but you don’t want them necessarily to take you so literally,” his mother, Ilissa Warhit, said in a telephone interview after what she described as 24 hours of nonstop tears.”

      Reminds me of the prank phone call on YouTube where the Jewish parents are going nuts because their daughter is dating a goy, who happens to be an Italian stallion type. At one point in the phone conversation, the harassed daughter responds something to the effect, “But Mom, you always said those guys were sexy and made you hot!” And Mom says something like, “BUT I NEVER TOUCHED ONE, MARRIED ONE, JESUSCHRISTALREADY!”

  13. radkelt
    radkelt
    August 16, 2012, 2:46 pm

    I always wondered if Richard Perle and/or Elliott Abrams were dual citizens.
    Perle was dismissed from his position as senior staff to Senator Scoop Jackson,
    (who I think chaired the Senate Armed Service Committee) for passing classified
    material to the Israel embassy. He later served, along with Henry Kissinger, on
    the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee, which is privy to secret defense
    materials.
    Elliott Abrams, who I believe once publicly declared that he loved Israel more than
    America, has held Middle East policy positions in various government departments.
    * MLE, there is no defense treaty between the US and Israel, therefore they are not
    technically allies.
    * American, Don’t you think collusion between Israel and US arms manufacturers
    is likely as a way to bypass prohibitions against arm sales to certain countries?
    PS does anyone know of a way to find out who is a dual citizen, and of what country?

    • American
      American
      August 16, 2012, 3:42 pm

      @ radkelt

      I don’t think so for major companies like Lockheed and Boeing, not worth the gov and pentagon hassle of getting caught at it…since congress and the pentagon do have the say so in what countries US weapons companies can sell to.

  14. ColinWright
    ColinWright
    August 16, 2012, 3:16 pm

    If a Palestinian-American ‘loves the Palestinian people,’ can he openly announce he is leaving to join Islamic Jihad, and if he does, will the New York Times laud him for it?

    • MLE
      MLE
      August 16, 2012, 3:51 pm

      Where are the zionists on this one? Isn’t hophmi in the army? I want to know what their experiences with these kids who come from the US to join the army? How does the average Israel soldier gt along with them?

  15. American
    American
    August 16, 2012, 3:27 pm

    Er….maybe G-D is sending the Chosen a message. ..’I’m tired of you trouble makers messing up my Holy land so I’m culling your herd. LOL
    Or maybe it’s the IDF uniforms that lower their sperm count. Maybe they better start intermarrying with those fertile Palestines.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-israel-sperm-20120816,0,601440.story

    Israel sperm banks find quality is plummeting
    Twice as low as average world count

    “Simply put, the quality of Israeli sperm is falling at an alarming rate, and no one’s sure exactly why.
    Fertility is a major issue in Israel, where memories of the Holocaust genocide are fresh, and having children is an entrenched part of Judaism. There’s also a political aspect, because birthrates among Arabs in Israel have at times been as much as double those of Jews, triggering a population race that some believe could one day affect who controls the land.”

  16. Abuadam
    Abuadam
    August 16, 2012, 4:01 pm

    Please the law is clear, join a foreign military or taking a job with a foreign power or taking a foreign power’s citizenship, you need to take an oath to a foreign power:

    “taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA); ”

    The QUESTION to be asked is who is doing the interpertation, do you think maybe just maybe it’s a….?!

  17. sciri21
    sciri21
    August 16, 2012, 5:06 pm

    If only the purpose of the Zionist forces actually was to protect people

  18. RoHa
    RoHa
    August 16, 2012, 9:50 pm

    Are there any reader comments on this story?

    • MLE
      MLE
      August 17, 2012, 2:36 am

      No the Huffington Post has something on it, but it’s way too filled with trolls.

  19. Sheldonrichman
    Sheldonrichman
    August 17, 2012, 7:51 am

    My niece, just out of high school, is in that group. This has aggravated the rift between my brother and me. over Israel I expect there to be quite a culture clash there. These young people are fanatical Zionists. But I suspect the typical Israeli draftee is not an ideological Zionist. At most he sees Israel as his and his family’s country and the seat of his culture (which is different from “Jewish culture”); he probably does not see himself as a defender of The Jewish State or the Jewish People. This is confirmed by the colonel’s remark: “Their motivation is often way higher than the average Israeli.” Of course it is! Draftees usually are not highly motivated. As Dick Cheney said in explaining his Vietnam draft deferments, they “have other priorities.”

    I’m reminded of what happened when bin Laden’s jihadis went to Afghanistan to fight the Russians. They hoped to be bombed and killed, according to Lawrence Wright’s The Looming Tower. The Afghans looked at them like they were crazy, saying in effect, “We’re not trying to get to paradise, dude, we’re trying to get the fucking Russians out of our country.”

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      August 17, 2012, 8:40 am

      @ Sheldonrichman,
      These are personal questions, so of course you need not respond to me here:
      So how did she get to be such a fanatical Zionist at such a young age, from your brother and/or his spouse? Did you and your brother grow up in the same home? How account for your difference of opinion in this matter?

      • Sheldonrichman
        Sheldonrichman
        August 17, 2012, 9:42 am

        I’d be happy to reply. She was brought up in a devoutly religious and Zionist home. She attended Jewish schools. My brother and I grew up together (I’m five years older) with conservative Jewish parents who believed Israel to be critical to the fate of the Jewish people, but who never would have moved there. I was pro-Israel throughout my childhood and well into teenage years. I remember celebrating the victory in 1967 at youth rallies. I was active in United Synagogue Youth. But I heard one note of dissent in my younger years: My orthodox grandfather (born in Lithuanian) was staunchly anti-Zionist; he blamed “the Jews” for the trouble in Palestine. Early in my college years (I’m 62 now) I gave up religion and theism as a philosophical matter, but not Israel. In the late 1970s I started reading historical accounts that made clear that the founding of Israel was 1) an injustice against the Palestinians and 2) a corrupting politicization of Judaism. I’ve tried to test these views through argument and reading over the years, but no one has been able to show me where they are wrong.

      • philweiss
        philweiss
        August 17, 2012, 9:43 am

        Thanks Sheldon for sharing all this… Phil

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride
        August 17, 2012, 9:55 am

        Sheldon,

        Your intellectual honesty and truth-seeking nature stands in stark contrast to the hasbara and pilpul artists on Mondoweiss.

        Some folks, apparently, are born to be truth seekers and free thinkers. Others are born to be obedient and robotic members of ethnic and religious cults.

      • Sheldonrichman
        Sheldonrichman
        August 17, 2012, 10:47 am

        It was a stressful journey, but my heroes went from Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir, and Moshe Dayan to Alfred Lilienthal, Elmer Berger, and Israel Shahak.

      • philweiss
        philweiss
        August 17, 2012, 11:38 am

        Thanks Stateless, I do believe Mondo should ask WRMEA to repost Sheldon’s great piece… I’ll get on it. Phil

      • Sheldonrichman
        Sheldonrichman
        August 17, 2012, 11:41 am

        Thanks.

    • MLE
      MLE
      August 17, 2012, 5:17 pm

      Can you keep us updated on this one? As in how she likes it, if her opinions change? If she wants to quit? If she’s able to quit?

      • Sheldonrichman
        Sheldonrichman
        August 17, 2012, 6:10 pm

        I’ll do my best, but I suspect I will not be getting family updates. I was not invited to the farewell party, although I would not have been in the mood to celebrate anyway.

  20. seanmcbride
    seanmcbride
    August 17, 2012, 9:52 am

    This prominent theme in Zionist politics — the centrality of LOVING Israel, of LOVING the Jewish people, of LOVING the Land of Israel — strikes me as being exceedingly important. Understand what that is all about, psychologically speaking, and one will unravel many mysteries about certain historical and social dynamics.

    Isn’t this “love” really all about self-love? Of ethnocentrism and ethnic narcissism taken to the ultimate limit? And isn’t it connected to some of the most primitive racist impulses in human nature?

    When ethnic nationalists get emotionally excited and weepy about “loving” their people, what they really mean is that they love themselves. I LOVE myself so very, very much. :)

    What is amazing is that many American politicians have developed the habit of lavishly expressing “love” for an ethnic nationalist movement that is not even their own. At some point they are going to come to their senses and be embarrassed at how easily they were herded into supporting a self-destructive messianic project. How did they fall for it? Probably all the bribes and threats played a key role in unhinging their minds.

    • seanmcbride
      seanmcbride
      August 17, 2012, 10:41 am

      This LOVE (self-worshipping) dimension of Likud Zionism is really remarkable.

      Several psychological traits often seem to co-occur with ethnic nationalist zealotry — and especially with messianic ethno-religious nationalist zealotry:

      1. ethnic Asperger’s syndrome
      2. ethnic autism
      3. ethnic chauvinism
      4. ethnic cultism
      5. ethnic euphoria
      6. ethnic grandiosity
      7. ethnic megalomania
      8. ethnic Messiah Complex
      9. ethnic messianism
      10. ethnic mysticism
      11. ethnic narcissism
      12. ethnic navel-gazing
      13. ethnic nepotism
      14. ethnic onanism
      15. ethnic self-celebration
      16. ethnic self-deification
      17. ethnic self-election
      18. ethnic self-ghettoization
      19. ethnic self-glorification
      20. ethnic self-hypnosis
      21. ethnic self-interest
      22. ethnic self-love
      23. ethnic self-obsession
      24. ethnic self-pity
      25. ethnic self-promotion
      26. ethnic self-worship
      27. ethnic separatism
      28. ethnic supremacism
      29. ethnic triumphalism
      30. ethnic wanking

      This pattern seems to afflict all overexcited ethnic nationalist movements — not just Jewish nationalism. For instance, one finds the same psychological traits among German nationalists of the 1930s and 1940s.

      • seanmcbride
        seanmcbride
        August 17, 2012, 12:45 pm

        A key point that needs to be made here is that this over-the-top ethnic narcissism and self-worship produces extreme racism and MONUMENTAL SELFISHNESS. People who get sucked into these ethnic nationalist belief systems don’t give a damn about anyone outside the cult — they are so self-absorbed that they don’t even realize how selfish they look to the rest of the world.

        Ethnic nationalists (particularly those of the messianic religious variety) have a strong tendency to violently polarize the entire world against themselves and to self-destruct.

        Try asking pro-Israel activists and militants what issues they care about of concern to humanity at large more than they care about Jewish nationalism — the responses (or lack thereof) are always instructive.

        From the standpoint of most people in modern Western democracies, strident ethnic nationalists are usually assholes at best and monsters at worst — they are outside the realm of rational and enlightened discourse and policymaking. For overexcited ethnic nationalists, it’s always all about ME, ME, ME — classical sociopathic narcissism.

    • Sheldonrichman
      Sheldonrichman
      August 17, 2012, 10:52 am

      I think this is a worthwhile insight.

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