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‘NYT’ article on Palestinian refugees manages to quote Israeli govt spox but no Palestinians

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Yousef Munayyer’s tweet really says it all:

The article, “Photographs Tell a History of Palestinians Unmoored,” is about a United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNWRA) photo exhibit that just opened in Jerusalem. For some reason Isabel Kershner gives more space to Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesperson Yigal Palmor to denounce the exhibit than to UNWRA staffers to explain it. And, of course, the article ignores actual Palestinian refugees all together.

I know Phil’s hobbyhorse is that that the Times is embedded in Israeli society, but this is ridiculous.

Update:

You can learn more about the UNWRA exhibit here, and the incredible project it is a part of. Here is a video of former UNWRA photographer George Nehmeh meeting a woman he had taken a picture of as a child:

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138 Responses

  1. mjordan
    mjordan
    November 29, 2013, 1:06 pm

    Not sure how much it makes a difference – but I believe it was journalist @erinmcunningham who first pointed this out:

    Erin Cunningham‏@erinmcunningham – 9h
    In a story about an UNRWA photographic exhibit of Palestinian refugees, the NYT manages to speak to… no refugees

  2. Krauss
    Krauss
    November 29, 2013, 1:06 pm

    Don’t be too harsh on them, Adam.

    At the end of the day, we can all safely attest to the fact that it’s all pastor Hagee’s fault.
    If it weren’t for him and other evangelical Christians, the settler movement would collapse tomorrow and the American media would be more fair and balanced. But since we all know that every mainstream journalist, especially those at the New York Times, is quivering in their boots at the thought of getting bulk-mailed by CUFI, the debate is very constrained.

    I know this to be true, because I read it from numerous liberal Zionists and how could they possibly not telling the truth? You don’t mean to suggest they’re trying to hide something?

  3. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    November 29, 2013, 1:07 pm

    The NYT isn’t a news organ, but a part of the Lobby. If one expects that it will follow anything like journalistic norms when it comes to these matters, he is fooling himself. The NYT’s coverage of the Palestine issue exists to support the zionists, nothing else.

  4. Henry Norr
    Henry Norr
    November 29, 2013, 1:08 pm

    The choice of the word “unmoored” is also unreal – as if the refugees were carried away from their homes by some natural force!

    • Krauss
      Krauss
      November 29, 2013, 1:11 pm

      Judi Rudoren wrote an article a few months ago where settlers were described as “tending their trees”.

      The Times was far more forceful on Jim Crow, just go back and read their editorials, or Apartheid South Africa. But Zionism has a special privilege in the American media. There are a lot of people who are personally devoted to that ideology the way you didn’t have a bunch of afrikaaners populating the NYT back in the 80s or white Southerners who were pro-Jim Crow policies back in the 60s.

      But in 2013, a lot of people with strong Zionist committment do populate the Times as well as many other newspapers in the American mainstream. The sociological question of why this is the case is, by and large, the domain of Philip Weiss who writes about this better than anyone I know.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        November 29, 2013, 11:43 pm

        The Times was far more forceful on Jim Crow, just go back and read their editorials, or Apartheid South Africa.

        Well if you just go back far enough, you can see the Times opposed Jewish immigration and wrote articles explaining that the Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe and Russia were unsanitary, stupid, and uncivilized:

        Yet the long-whiskered descendants of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Judah on the east side gets out of the street without being hit with a stone or having a putrid fish or piece of meat thrown in his face.
        This neighborhood, peopled almost entirely by the people who claim to have been driven from Poland and Russia, is the eyesore of New York, and perhaps the filthiest place on the Western Continent. It is impossible for a Christian to live there, because he will be driven out, either by blows or the dirt and stench.
        Cleanliness is an unknown quantity to these people. They cannot be lifted up to a higher plane because they do not want to be. If the cholera should ever get among these people they would scatter its germs as a sower does grain.

        — Published: July 30, 1893 The New York Times http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20D1EF83F5A1A738DDDA90B94DF405B8385F0D3

      • Krauss
        Krauss
        November 30, 2013, 2:56 am

        Right Hostage, but the Times’ 1893 editorial is much in the vein of how the Ashkenazi founding fathers treated the Mizrahi. The Eastern European “rabble” as they were often called during those times served a similar role.

        This wasn’t an attack against the Jews. It was an attack against those kinds of Jews. Just like many Russian Jews today in Israel are treated with suspicion or how Mizrahi Jews are still seen as a bit barbaric, although the racist vitriol against both of them have since comw down. There’s always been intra-Jewish racism. Your point is moot.

        What is your motivation for digging up editorials which are over a hundred years old and on substance are not really connected? To divert the discussion.
        Why would you want to do that? Only you can answer that question.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        November 30, 2013, 2:28 pm

        Right Hostage, but the Times’ 1893 editorial is much in the vein of how the Ashkenazi founding fathers treated the Mizrahi. . . . . Your point is moot.

        I readily admit that affluent German Jews looked down upon Eastern European Jews. But my point isn’t moot, unless you can actually provide a cite which says the writer, editors, publishers, or owners in 1893 were all fellow Jews and that they or the NYT have been more harsh in their treatment of Jim Crow or Apartheid South Africa than their treatment of these fellow Jews.

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      November 30, 2013, 7:17 pm

      Henry Norr:

      The choice of the word “unmoored” is also unreal – as if the refugees were carried away from their homes by some natural force.

      Yes, so true. Perhaps “hit the road” would be a little more normal-sounding to
      ” capture the Palestinian refugee experience. ”
      ——————–

      About 700,000 Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes during the Arab-Israeli war over the foundation of Israel.

      “Fled or expelled”– “Fled” emphasized by first position in the conjunction; no terminology like “ethnic cleansing”, no need to go into details on numbers, how many were terrorized into flight, the methods used for expulsion, the summary executions, rapes, massacres, state terror, let alone Zionist motives for doing so and the fact that the process began well before any Arab forces entered Palestine etc.

      “Fled or expelled” –just tragic, but normal events brought about by Arabs deciding to make war on the new Jewish state–that’s the message.

  5. eljay
    eljay
    November 29, 2013, 1:29 pm

    “When was the last time that any United Nations agency raised so much money and invested so much effort in organizing and circulating around the world the documentation of a specific plight like that of the Palestinian refugees? Never,” said Yigal Palmor, the spokesman for Israel’s Foreign Ministry.

    “This only emphasizes the strident anomaly of the dedication of a disproportionate part of the United Nations budget, staff, time and resources to the Palestinian issue exclusively at the expense of, and to the detriment of, all other similar issues,” he added.

    Poor hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist spokesman! He’s upset not because he and his supremacist “Jewish State” engage in, support, justify, excuse and/or advocate for oppression, occupation, ethnic cleansing, land theft, colonialism, Jewish supremacism, torture and murder, but because the nasty ol’ United Nations won’t leave them in peace to do their dirty work! :-(

    Israel vehemently rejects the Palestinian demand for a right of return for the refugees … It says that any mass influx would spell the end of Israel as a predominantly Jewish state.

    Israel has no right to exist as a(n oppressive, colonialist, expansionst and) supremacist “Jewish State”.

    • Erasmus
      Erasmus
      November 29, 2013, 2:54 pm

      Re Eljay : …Israel has no right to exist as a(n oppressive, colonialist, expansionst and) supremacist “Jewish State”.

      “Jewish” State

      This quoted line above might well serve well for Mr. Abbas possible (but unlikely) Knesset speech to which Neanyahoo has invited him recently: Something like this:

      ” You, Mr. Netanyahoo, ask of me to recognize Israel as the Jewish State, knowing too well that we, the Palestinians, will and cannot comply with such a demand – never.
      However, there is also one more, and not the least reason why i would never do it.

      It would be a gross insult for Jewish Israelis of Conscience to do, because calling their state of Israel a “JEWISH state” which has manifested itself from the days of the Naqba on to this date as an oppressive, colonialist, expansionst and supremacist state, is – as i must see it – a fundamental contradiction to the ethical principles of Judaism.”

      • oneof5
        oneof5
        November 29, 2013, 3:24 pm

        Always look for, and never fail to exploit, the opportunity to take what is offered in opposition and turn it right around on your opponent.

        A-L-W-A-Y-S

        #ifyouoffermetherope

  6. November 29, 2013, 2:08 pm

    As always the lack of any objectivity and direct dishonesty on this issue shown by UN representatives and on this blog are something normal mind refuses to believe.

    I’ll limit myself to just one aspect here. Since 1940’s until now when the Palestinian refugees problem was created tens of refugee groups appeared in different parts in the world as a result of armed conflicts. Here is a graph (in Danish I think but understandable)
    https://www.google.co.il/search?q=store+folketingsgruppe+image&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YN6YUsOQFMKw7Aa-34GAAQ&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1045&bih=444#es_sm=93&espv=210&q=store%20flyktningsgrupper%20i%20verden%20i%20de%20siste%2075&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgrc=gBwFOQLHqCUuxM%3A%3BROa6r8grsjKFUM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftarud.files.wordpress.com%252F2013%252F05%252Fflyktninger-diagram-1b.jpg%253Fw%253D1024%2526h%253D647%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Ftarud.wordpress.com%252Fcategory%252Fflyktninger%252F%3B1024%3B647

    It shows how these groups developed with time. The two largest were the Germans and the Indian-Pakistani groups. Then there is Jewish, Afgans, Vietnam, Iraqis, Sudanese, Syrians. I would add the Greek Cypriots and Chechens. Probably there are others. And the Palestinians.

    All the graphs have the same typical shape of first growing, reaching a peak and then decreasing tending eventually to zero. All except the Palestinians.

    All the world refugees groups were absorbed by the countries to which they escaped and one generation after (or perhaps two) they are not refugees anymore. Except for Palestinians.

    Their graph is growing and growing. Their Arab brothers refused to absorb them. They kept them in “refugees camps”. Special UN agency was created with billions of donation (US mainly) dollars to make worth it while not to quit being refugees and to make worth it while for the bureaucracy of this agency to continue with their well paid jobs.

    And in the end the blog like this one gets money from various agencies to pay for its maintenance and the salaries to its “authors” to continue maintaining this ridiculous story of 3rd generation refugees which by now grew to what? Four? Five? Six millions?

    This is a great and cunning victory for all those cruel Arab regimes (Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc) that managed to avoid becoming the shame of the progressive world for not helping their fellow Arabs like Germans and Jews and Indians and Greeks and others who absorbed the refugees. Instead the “progressive” world blames Israel for 3 generations of refugees.

    • James North
      James North
      November 29, 2013, 2:33 pm

      Memo to Hasbara Central: fnlevit is trotting out the old “The ‘Arabs’ didn’t take in ‘Arab’ refugees” excuse.
      Please be more respectful. Hasn’t this site earned the right to have top-level hasbarists visit, instead of low-level amateurs like fnlevit? This site has people on it like Hostage, Shmuel, talknic and many many more — who will demolish fnlevit’s pathetic arguments in seconds.
      Please deploy a better, more challenging quality of person over here. Don’t we deserve the Hasbara A Team?

      • annie
        annie
        November 29, 2013, 3:31 pm

        thanks james. our readers are more discerning and as a result are not influenced by this crass propaganda. whereas a more mainstream site like cnn or yahoo may have readers who are less informed. maybe not, it’s a long shot.
        looking on the bright side, fnl is an example of a typical crude hasbrat/zionist, ultimately his blatant transparency helps move the process forward, i suppose. is this all they got? scraping the bottom of the barrel.

      • oneof5
        oneof5
        November 29, 2013, 3:31 pm

        When fnlevit is representative of what the “A-Team” includes, this is probably the very best they can reasonably hope for …

        #bushleague

      • annie
        annie
        November 29, 2013, 4:07 pm

        welcome aboard 1of5, i neglected a greeting before.

      • oneof5
        oneof5
        November 29, 2013, 7:16 pm

        Thank you Annie. And thanks to Phil and Adam and all the rest of the contributors for the site and making it what it is – a truly invaluable resource, with which to educate my fellow citizens, lest they remain ignorantly complicit in the crimes that we as a nation endorse and fund.

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        November 29, 2013, 5:28 pm

        FN Levit is a poor man’s blog genius
        Lieberman is poor man’s political supremo
        Peres is a poor man’s eminence grise

        Zionism is shoddy everywhere

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        November 29, 2013, 5:34 pm

        @James North:

        Don’t we deserve the Hasbara A Team?

        No, you deserve a people, or Hasbara as you call them, that tell the truth and only the truth. The fact that you don’t agree with the “Hasbara” arguments, doesn’t say that you got the “bottom of the barrel”. The people you mentioned in your comment can’t demolish the truth and, in their best, can only response with null arguments like “it is not a credible source”, “it is Hasbara” or “He was forced from his office”. Please, see one example out of many examples I can send you:
        http://mondoweiss.net/2013/11/unnecessary-confrontation-international.html/comment-page-1#comment-612079

      • annie
        annie
        November 30, 2013, 1:47 am

        in their best, can only response with null arguments like “it is not a credible source”, “it is Hasbara” or “He was forced from his office”.

        hmm, not really. here’s one example from talknic’s response at your link:

        He was spouting Hasbara . The Palestinians are not refugees because of the host states and the host states are not obliged to integrate them if they do not choose to be integrated

        the response to you contains many supporting links. whereas you counter with nothing even tho there were 2 more days til the thread was closed.

        So why did Israel claim occupied territories for itself? http://talknic.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/israel-has-no-fixed-borders-on-may-22-1948-israel-confirmed-its-borders-in-a-letter-to-the-unsc-the-hasbara-does-not-explain-it-justifies-the-usurping-of-the-palestinians/#firstclaims

        Jewish forces were already in territory outside that allotted for the Jewish state in the weeks BEFORE declaration and at the moment of declaration and after declaration. The fighting didn’t stop. At precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) the war changed from being a civil war to a war waged by the state of Israel on and in territories “outside the state of Israel” http://talknic.wordpress.com/2012/05/10/the-hasbara-worlds-worst-propaganda-there-was-no-occupation-before-1967-israel-vs-palestine/

        Territory may be taken for strategic advantage during a war. At wars end, it must be returned or legally annexed by agreement. Occupation is voluntary.

        (my bold)

        that was more of what you characterize as a ‘null’ argument? only because you are incapable of nullifying it and completely ignore it.

        and why do you bother linking to past arguments on dead threads? especially arguments you were unable to counter at the time! it’s a circular way spamming the current thread. but it does make it very easy to prove how ineffectual you are.

        we demand better hasbara central! send us your A team!

      • annie
        annie
        November 30, 2013, 2:00 am

        and as an aside i’d like to comment on talknic’s pt, the one mahane and all the other hasbrats evaded for 2 full days til the thread was closed.

        Jewish forces were already in territory outside that allotted for the Jewish state in the weeks BEFORE declaration and at the moment of declaration and after declaration. The fighting didn’t stop. At precisely 00:01 May 15th 1948 (ME time) the war changed from being a civil war to a war waged by the state of Israel

        who ever heard of a war ending one day and another starting the same day in the same place? this is the grand miracle of the supremacy of israeli hasbara.

        it was one war with a change of name in the middle. for after massacres and scores of villages had been emptied out and hundreds of thousands of palestinian refugees had been flooding into neighboring countries when those countries responded by entering into the territory designated to be that of the arab state for the purpose of protecting the integrity of that territory israel declares statehood in a ceremony that takes 20 minutes and then claims forever the tiny state was invaded on it’s birthday! at that moment, allegedly, a ‘new’ war begins (never mind there was no ‘ending’ or finale of the last war) allegedly..initiated by the arab armies!! what incredible timing! not at all as impressive as saying 1/2 way thru the war the arab countries attempted to come to the rescue of palestinians being ethnically cleansed. it reminds me of the scores of people flooding out of bosnia. nato to the rescue!

        this is hasbara in it’s finest. but you can only fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all the people all the time. and this particular piece of hasbara has about run it’s course. it is very last century and will going down in history as merely the hasbara that it’s been. it’s not sustainable because it is complete BS.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        November 30, 2013, 2:24 am

        @Annie:

        Did you change the link I provided in my comment and put other link? If yes, I am not sure who is the Hasbara here and who use ugly techniques.

      • annie
        annie
        November 30, 2013, 2:52 am

        mehane, if you scroll down from your link i cited talknic’s response to it. perhaps you were thinking you linked to another of your comments you claimed “one example out of many examples”. but how about addressing talknic’s response to the allegations you linked to?

        and i find it quite amusing how you accuse me of ugliness. not sure i’ve ever heard your describing zionist policy as ugly. and while we’re on the subject of your allegations you’ve linked to, your downright hypocrisy in claiming The people you mentioned in your comment can’t demolish the truth and, in their best, can only response with null arguments, i’d like to provide another example from your link of you squirming out responding to talknic’s pts:

        I don’t want to explain the settlements because I, like you, think they are not legal, and I oppose them. I already stated that they are obstacle for future peace agreement.

        you want to talk about ugliness? where are your priorities? who is it using ugly techniques? zionism uses ugly techniques to cleanse the land and constantly sends spammers to deflect and highjack threads.

        btw, the purpose of ending threads after a few days is not to revisit them. tell your workers bees down at hasbara central to learn how to counter arguments other than linking to your past lame allegations.

        simply put, our side has it easier because it’s not our task to white wash zionist crimes day in and day out. whereas team Z is tasked w/smearing lipstick on the (ugly) pig 24/7.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        November 30, 2013, 3:19 am

        @Annie;

        Rally, why should I “explain” the settlements if I think that they are not legal?

        I don’t want to explain the settlements because I, like you, think they are not legal, and I oppose them. I already stated that they are obstacle for future peace agreement.

        Countless of times I wrote here in this web site that Israel should withdrawal from the OT and give the houses to the Palestinian refugees as part of the solution of the conflict. Strange, in Israel I considered “leftist” and here I am Hasbara (A team or C team, whatever).

        “Zionism uses ugly techniques to cleanse the land.
        I told you many times my opinion about the “cleansing”. Be sure that when real peace agreement will be on the table, Israel will not hesitate to withdrawal from the area. Please, see the example of Egypt-Israel peace treaty.

      • Cliff
        Cliff
        November 30, 2013, 5:47 am

        This is the second time that Kahane has supported Nakba denial.

        Why isnt Fnlevit banned for trolling Max’s book on Amazon with his non-verified purchase review AND for citing Nakba denial papers?

        Why isnt Kahane banned along with him for supporting him and characterizing his Nakba denial as ‘truth telling’?

      • annie
        annie
        November 30, 2013, 10:03 am

        willfully missing the point mehane. again you want to talk about ugliness? where are your priorities? who is it using ugly techniques?

        here’s mehane criticizing settlements:

        “they are not legal”….

        “when real peace agreement will be on the table, Israel will not hesitate to withdrawal”

        you don’t call them vile tho do you? nor ugly? your fangs don’t come out for the settlements. this you call “demolishing the truth” laden w/ad hominem.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        November 30, 2013, 11:09 am

        @Annie:

        Again, we are going in circle. You are doing thing that you always do: turn the debate to something convenient to you and put me in a defense position, while ignoring my original comment. Let me, please, summarize my arguments again and expand them:

        There are several pro-Israelis and Zionists in this site and all of them experience the same treatment. First, all of them are considered Hasbara, working in “center of Hasbara” and spreading their lies and false arguments, as you all say. It is about the time that you start treat us as individuals with different points of view, different opinions and positions, not “Hasbara center”.

        [edit….]

      • thankgodimatheist
        thankgodimatheist
        November 30, 2013, 8:46 pm

        “Be sure that when real peace agreement will be on the table, Israel will not hesitate to withdrawal from the area. Please, see the example of Egypt-Israel peace treaty.”
        Twaddle!..Israel will never withdraw from the West Bank and you know it. If they did from the Sinai (which wasn’t of primordial importance for them to start with) it was only because the outcome, peace with Egypt, meant neutralising the biggest country/army they face among Arab countries. In their calculations it was more than worth it. What is the incentive for them to withdraw from other occupied lands? Neutralising stone throwers? Abbas’ mighty police forces? Or maybe for the sake of peace?! Are you that gullible to believe such nonsense?

      • annie
        annie
        December 1, 2013, 5:17 am

        It is about the time that you start treat us as individuals with different points of view, different opinions and positions, not “Hasbara center”.

        mehane, if you’d like to move this argument into the ‘unfairness’ of moderators or the way hasbarists are treated on this site please continue your rant or positions on the comment policy thread. as a rule we don’t host threads here with long conversations about ‘what’s fair’.

        and as for me ‘changing the subject’, you entered this conversation with the allegation your concerns/ideas were ignored, ‘null arguments etc’ and you left a link. i didn’t ignore you, i decimated your argument http://mondoweiss.net/2013/11/palestinian-refugees-palestinians.html/comment-page-1#comment-616314 simply by blockquoting talknic’s extensive response to your allegations. so you’ve got an opportunity here to actually address something on topic, that you initiated.

        i suggest writing phil and adam over your perceived unfair treatment or posting it in the comment policy thread.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        December 1, 2013, 5:56 am

        It is about the time that you start treat us as individuals with different points of view, different opinions and positions, not “Hasbara center”.

        We would if you were individuals with different points of view, different opinions and positions, but so far you are all repeating the same BS.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        December 1, 2013, 1:39 pm

        “Be sure that when real peace agreement will be on the table, Israel will not hesitate to withdrawal from the area. ”

        Bull. Show one place where one israeli who has any power in the state has promised that israel will withdraw to the 1967 lines. Just one. They all talk about keep Arab East al-Quds, about keeping “settlement block” and swapping worthless desert as “compensation.” You want to know why you keep getting treated like a hasbara-spewing robot, MY?? It’s because you spread this patent nonsense and insult the rest of us by pretending like it’s a serious position.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        December 2, 2013, 4:29 am

        You want to know why you keep getting treated like a hasbara-spewing robot, MY?? It’s because you spread this patent nonsense and insult the rest of us by pretending like it’s a serious position.

        Perfectly put Woody. MY1 gets away with trolling this blog with all manner of unsubstantiated and clearly outlandish BS that he bases entirely on what he claims is him opinion and experience. Nothing he argues is based on sources or evidence.

        He’s an insult to the otherwise high level of debate and discussion on this forum and frankly, I think he’s pushed his luck too many times.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        December 2, 2013, 11:21 am

        @Shingo;

        Thanks for the compliments.

        All of my sources and evidences were rejected immediately without a minimum attempts to answer them seriously.

        He’s an insult to the otherwise high level of debate and discussion

        This is the best compliment I received here. I don’t know what do you mean when you say high level of debate. I can show you many examples of “high level” in which commenters distorted facts and wrote false interpretations to support their claims, even when they deal with texts of their religion like Islam. I am not sure who are insulting this forum.

        I think he’s pushed his luck too many times

        Strange, as someone that is regarded as an insult and “pushed” his luck, I wonder why I received so many responses, sometimes behind my ability to respond to all of them. Usually, people as you described, are ignored in most forums.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        December 2, 2013, 4:54 pm

        @MahaneYehude1;

        All of my sources and evidences were rejected immediately without a minimum attempts to answer them seriously.

        Rubbish. Your last link was some absurd propaganda screed from Debka that was easily debunked not only by the comments made that week by the Russians, but by the events in Geneva a week later.

        In fact, you’ve demonstrated that you don’t even read your own links as the rest of us as pointed out on a number of occasions how they do not support your argument.

        I can show you many examples of “high level” in which commenters distorted facts and wrote false interpretations to support their claims

        No you can’t, as demonstrated by your pathetic attempts in the past. The best you have ever been able to come up with is that your own interpretation or opinion does not agree.

        even when they deal with texts of their religion like Islam. I

        You have also demonstrated that you don’t know the first thing about Islam or texts therein. You have been refuted by those more knowledgeable on the topic. In fact, the only example fo your arguments that comes to mind is that that there are Youtubes vids out there.

        Strange, as someone that is regarded as an insult and “pushed” his luck, I wonder why I received so many responses, sometimes behind my ability to respond to all of them

        Because you are a dishonest, Nakba denying troll and people here generally don’t tolerate lies going unchallenged in case casual readers might be misinformed by your lies.

        Now a while ago you offered to leave this forum if someone could prove you wrong on a topic. Shmuel did just that, but you refuse to leave.

        So when are you going to leave and stop spamming this blog?

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        November 29, 2013, 7:17 pm

        “Don’t we deserve the Hasbara A Team?”

        Oh, I don’t mind that, just someone other than fnlevit. His type of vile spewage of old-hack hasbara, Nakba-denial, lies and racist bigotry should have resulted in his banning long ago. He’s is a detriment to the site and I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up driving away long-time commenters because he is inherently distasteful. (I know I’ve avoided the site when he’s posting a lot.)

      • tree
        tree
        November 30, 2013, 5:37 am

        To back up Woody on this point, I went to the source of fnlevit’s “graph”. I suspect that he didn’t link to the page directly because if he did it would be obvious that he was linking to an extremely racist Nakba denial site from Norway. You can do a Google translate on the page, or even easier, the site has provided an English translation of the piece with the graph that fnlevit finds so pleasing.

        http://tarud.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/the-palestinian-refugees-deception.pdf

        The title of the vile racist piece is “The Palestinian Refugee Deception”. Here’s a short and disgusting sample:

        The deception
        Definition

        The usual definition of a refugee is a person who has fled from his habitual residence or country because of war, persecution or natural disasters. For the Palestinians it is a completely different definition. Here you will be regarded as a “Palestinian refugee” if you were a migrant worker in western Palestine, a nomad Bedouin passing in the area, genetically related to a “Palestinian refugee” or poor Arab who needed food stamps from the United Nations relief organization.

        The cause of the conflict

        Most refugees in the world are trapped in a conflict situation, which they did not cause. The Palestinians have started the war against their Jewish neighbours in 1947 with the intention to annihilate all Jews in the area.

        The cause of the escape

        In most other conflicts, people have been attacked, chased or scared away from their homes. Most Palestnians who fled, done (sic) so for tactical reasons and lack of attachment to the land. Others were influenced by the Arab requests and pressure, and/or by unfounded fear. Those who did not flee enjoy good life in Israel today.

        Pure, unadulterated hateful Nakba denial. This isn’t the first time that fnlevit has sourced to such sites.

      • tree
        tree
        November 30, 2013, 5:49 am

        I hadn’t read fnlevits responses below when I posted this. Now that I have, its obvious from reading his own posts, not only the items he linked to, that fnlevit is engaging in a particularly racist brand of Nakba denial, which is a banning offense.

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        November 30, 2013, 7:57 pm

        Most Palestnians who fled, done (sic) so for tactical reasons and lack of attachment to the land.

        That assertion is so Orwellian in it’s falsification! A pure abomination!

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        December 1, 2013, 5:51 am

        Yes, we could just as easily turn that BS Nakba denial around and claim that the reason the Jews took so long to return to Palestine was lack of attachment to the land.

        At least that would be true to the extent most immigrants had never been to Palestine before

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        December 1, 2013, 8:37 am

        Most Palestnians who fled, done (sic) so for tactical reasons and lack of attachment to the land.

        The fact remains that the laws and customs of war make it perfectly legal for the military authorities on either side of a conflict to authorize the forced displacement of the civilian population on a temporary basis for their own protection, while making it a war crime to delay their timely repatriation after combat operations have ceased.

        That assertion is so Orwellian in it’s falsification! A pure abomination!

        It would be a good idea to delete the comment and ban the author for Nakba denial. If he wants to serve-up hate speech, let him do it on his tab without our financial support.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        December 1, 2013, 12:36 pm

        I’d like to add my voice to tree and others who pointed out that fnlevits is engaging in outright Nakba denial, which I believe is a banning offense, per the comment guidelines. haven’t seen that so obviously expressed in quite a while.

        For the sake of consistency he should be sanctioned forthwith. I see little point in engaging with someone who holds such odious views. What he does – rather typically – is certainly on par with the worst of Holocaust denialists. Interestingly, he doesn’t even try to hide his racist supremacist colors behind some false sophistication, like Hophmi was so keen on doing. There is obviously little point in engaging with such on the merits since there aren’t any,

        It’s time.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        December 1, 2013, 1:42 pm

        “Most Palestnians who fled, done (sic) so for tactical reasons and lack of attachment to the land. Others were influenced by the Arab requests and pressure, and/or by unfounded fear.”

        This is perhaps the most vile attack one can make regarding this issue. To take people who were fleeing for their lives and turn it into an offensive maneuver deserves a special place in hell. It is precisely the equivalent of saying that the Jews established the death camps as a way of hurting the Germans’ war effort.

      • Ellen
        Ellen
        December 1, 2013, 6:57 am

        Citizen, exactly! The old “you did it to the American Indians” line does not work for the Zionist justification of removing and destroying a people. It works against it and that is why we do not hear it anymore.

        It is now that the “Cruel Arab regimes” are not taking them in. (How many are in Jordan, how many in the UAE, etc. The answer turns fnlivits bigotry on it’s head.)

        The refugee populations cited as absorbed by other countries do not hold any water. For one, Palestinians were not in armed conflict when forced out to make room for the Zionist enterprise. German refugees were mostly absorbed by….Germany.

        I hope more knowlegable and articulate posters can put the “cruel Arab regimes” line into the dustbin with the “you did it to the Indians” prattle.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        December 1, 2013, 10:03 am

        I hope more knowlegable and articulate posters can put the “cruel Arab regimes” line into the dustbin with the “you did it to the Indians” prattle.

        I’ve commented elsewhere about the silliness of engaging in an endless Zionist or anti-Zionist mental exercise by debating back and forth the hypothetical return of millions of refugees without ever consulting their actual wishes on the subject.

        I’ve cited documentary evidence which proves that Nasser was proposing very reasonable terms for a final settlement with Israel on all of the issues as early as 1955. e.g. link to history.state.gov

        His proposals included the not so radical idea that the actual wishes of the refugees registered with the UNRWA should be consulted to determine just how many of them actually wanted to return. He felt that most would not want to be second class citizens in Israel and would probably opt for compensation and resettlement elsewhere. That is supposedly a personal prerogative under the explicit terms of resolution 194(III). The United States rejected the proposal because it was afraid of the possible outcome of the poll.
        link to history.state.gov

        So here we are decades later, still dealing with the hypothetical return of millions and just as hypothetical objections and red lines that may have no basis in reality at all. Even leaders of the BDS movement attack polls which suggest that the refugees strongly favor compromises and compensation.

      • LeaNder
        LeaNder
        December 1, 2013, 11:05 am

        thanks Hostage, great links. I was aware of the Israeli rejection of Nasser’s secret attempts to arrive at a solution of the conflict. (Avi Shlaim, I think) But I wasn’t aware that besides France and Britain the US was seemingly also approached and involved.

        Is Trevelyan the English counterpart? And Fawzi the Egyptian representative? But what does the allusion to “Alpha” or “Alpha procedures” signify?

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        December 1, 2013, 1:09 pm

        But what does the allusion to “Alpha” or “Alpha procedures” signify?

        Department of State, Central Files, 684A.86/1–555. Top Secret; Limited Distribution—Alpha. Received at 10:09 a.m. “Alpha” was the Department of State’s code word for materials pertaining to a U.S.-British effort, initiated in November 1954, to develop proposals for a comprehensive Arab-Israeli peace settlement. Concerning this effort, see Foreign Relations, 1952–1954, vol. IX, pp. 1683–1741 passim. Distribution of documents labeled “Alpha” was highly restricted; see ibid, pp. 1730–1731.
        http://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1955-57v14/d2

        A complete document-centric history is provided in the chapter “U.S. Efforts to Obtain a Settlement Between Egypt and Israel; the Beginnings of Operation Alpha, January 1–August 26, 1955 http://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1955-57v14/ch1

      • LeaNder
        LeaNder
        December 1, 2013, 1:32 pm

        Thanks, Hostage, appreciated. ;)

        First link does not work.

        Could this be found here: United States Department of State Foreign relations of the United States, 1952-1954. The Near and Middle East (in two parts) (1952-1954)

        Hmm, maybe a search for Alpha would work.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        December 1, 2013, 4:55 pm

        First link does not work.

        See my second link. That text and the broken hyperlink are embedded in a footnote located near the bottom of the page (it doesn’t work there either).

        Here is a link that will take you to starting page of the Foreign Relations, 1952–1954, vol. IX, pp. 1683–1741 http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/cgi-bin/FRUS/FRUS-idx?type=goto&id=FRUS.FRUS195254v09p1&isize=M&submit=Go+to+page&page=1683

      • LeaNder
        LeaNder
        December 1, 2013, 6:37 pm

        thanks, interesting, in fact pretty amazing how many original documents are available online nowadays. Great the digital Foreign Relations of the United States online collection. Even a searchable database. Not even restricted to students of the University of Wisconsin. Love it. ;)

        We would, of course, have to keep the French generally informed of our plans. But Sir Anthony Eden would hope that we might be able to avoid having them closely associated with us in their detailed discussion and execution.

        I probably could even move on to the Suez Crisis via this documentation. ;)

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      November 29, 2013, 3:19 pm

      “All the graphs have the same typical shape of first growing, reaching a peak and then decreasing tending eventually to zero. All except the Palestinians.”

      Interesting that it shows how uniquely evil the zionists are.

    • thankgodimatheist
      thankgodimatheist
      November 29, 2013, 7:45 pm

      What we’re reading here from fnlevit is the lowest of the very low that we’ve ever seen on Mondoweiss in a long time. Sad that this type of loathsome twaddle found a pass through moderation.

      • thankgodimatheist
        thankgodimatheist
        November 29, 2013, 8:10 pm

        Did it occur to your psychopathic Zionist mind that those Palestinian refugees or the majority of them simply want to exercise their inalienable right to return and that the Arab countries simply agree with them. Why should either party want to give Israel a pass on its infringement on that universally accepted right?

      • thankgodimatheist
        thankgodimatheist
        November 29, 2013, 8:18 pm

        Is it not evident that Israel, by refusing to allow their return when their numbers were far lower, made the problem much worse now that their numbers have naturally increased so that now you’re blaming Arab countries for what should be Israel’s fault and worse, crime? Whom do you think you’re trying to embezzle here?

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 30, 2013, 7:41 am

        @ thankgodimatheist “What we’re reading here from fnlevit is the lowest of the very low that we’ve ever seen on Mondoweiss in a long time”

        Nothing is too low and the closer the Palestinians get to obtaining justice the WORSE it will get. The Little Red Heifer will kick the sh*t out of the china shoppe.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      November 29, 2013, 10:00 pm

      “Here is a graph (in Danish I think but understandable)”

      It is Danish. I read part of the blog. Same old stuff.

      • Peter in SF
        Peter in SF
        November 30, 2013, 3:22 am

        It’s not Danish, it’s Norwegian, which is very similar. The title is “Some of the major refugee groups in the world in the last 75 years.” The word “flyktninger” means “refugees”. The first three are Palestinian, Jewish, and German. I like how it shows that the Iraqi, Sudanese, and Afghan refugee numbers will drop to zero around 2025, and Syrians around 2030.

        How are these refugee numbers declining? Let’s consider the case of Afghan refugees, who according to this chart were second in number to Palestinian refugees over the period 1980 to 2010. The UNHCR website reports that as of 2013, “More than 5.7 million refugees have voluntarily repatriated to Afghanistan in the last 10 years, of whom more than 4.6 million were assisted to do so by UNHCR.
        http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/page?page=49e486eb6

      • tree
        tree
        November 30, 2013, 2:25 pm

        I like how it shows that the Iraqi, Sudanese, and Afghan refugee numbers will drop to zero around 2025, and Syrians around 2030.

        and “More than 5.7 million refugees have voluntarily repatriated to Afghanistan in the last 10 years, of whom more than 4.6 million were assisted to do so by UNHCR.”

        Thanks, Peter. I didn’t even bother checking the graph since the accompanying prose was so hateful.

        So fnlevit posted a graph that managed to magically foretell the future 10 to 15 years hence and neglected to mention that the majority of Afghan refugees have been able to voluntarily return to their homes. A right that Israel has denied the Palestinian refugees for over 65 years.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        November 30, 2013, 7:34 pm

        Thanks, Peter. I’ve looked at it again, and now I see it is Norwegian. I tend to think “If I can read it and it isn’t Swedish, it’s Danish, and if I can understand the spoken version and it isn’t Swedish, it’s Norwegian”. I only lived in Denmark for a year.

        And I didn’t want to read much of it anyway.

    • RoHa
      RoHa
      November 30, 2013, 1:51 am

      The way Arab governments treat the refugees does not justify the Israeli actions. The Israelis created the situation by driving the refugees out and by refusing to allow them to return. And the Israelis are continuing their process of ethnic cleansing. That Arab governments cannot be blamed for that, either.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        November 30, 2013, 3:01 pm

        The way Arab governments treat the refugees does not justify the Israeli actions.

        Most of the comments here are beside the point: The failure to repatriate refugees in a timely manner, in accordance with Article 6 of the 4th Geneva Convention, was designated a grave breach and a war crime under the terms of the 1977 1st Additional Protocol, article 85.

        Both conventions have long-since been recognized as customary law binding on all of the parties that engage in international or non-international armed conflicts.

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 30, 2013, 1:55 am

      @ fnlevit

      “All the world refugees groups were absorbed by the countries to which they escaped “

      Strange. Millions of refugees have returned to their homelands in the past when it was safe to return.

      Presently
      http://unama.unmissions.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=9pK_v2UrNqY%3D&tabid=12254&language=en-US
      http://www.irinnews.org/report/98476/malian-refugees-trickling-back-home
      http://www.unhcr.org/519e29256.html
      http://assembly.coe.int/ASP/Doc/XrefViewHTML.asp?FileID=8673&Language=en
      http://musingsoniraq.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/pace-of-refugee-returns-to-iraq-picked.html

      ” Special UN agency was created with billions of donation (US mainly) dollars to make worth it while not to quit being refugees and to make worth it while for the bureaucracy of this agency to continue with their well paid jobs. “

      Odd that UNRWA cared for Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab States in Israel until 1953.

      States hosting refugees are not obliged to assimilate people who’d rather return to their homeland. Nor are they allowed to force refugees to become citizens.

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      November 30, 2013, 7:47 pm

      It’s important that we not admit ANY wrongdoing or ethical culpability of any Arab state regarding the Palestinian refugee problem, as that would detract from the anti-Zionist message.

      • talknic
        talknic
        December 1, 2013, 7:06 am

        Sibiriak “It’s important that we not admit ANY wrongdoing or ethical culpability of any Arab state regarding the Palestinian refugee problem, as that would detract from the anti-Zionist message”

        Sans any wholly holey moldy olde Hasbara, please elucidate on what you consider to be the wrongdoing or ethical culpability of any Arab state regarding the Palestinian refugee problem …. thx

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        December 1, 2013, 10:37 am

        @Talknic:

        1) No actions by Arab states can negate Israel’s responsibility for the Palestinian refugee problem or in any way constitute any kind of moral mitigation of the Nakba.

        2) Two areas of possible Arab state *ethical* culpability regarding the Palestinian refugee problem: 1) failure to do more to improve the conditions of refugees in camps etc. 2) failure to provide *greater* opportunities for naturalization/ full civil rights.

        These issues have been discussed in great detail in various MW threads. See for example:

        “Palestinian refugees in Lebanon do not only have Israel to blame for their plight”

        http://mondoweiss.net/2010/08/palestinian-refugees-in-lebanon-do-not-only-have-israel-to-blame-for-their-plight.html

        See in particular comments by Walid and Taxi. Walid has been one of the most eloquent and informed posters on this issue, imo.

        (http://mondoweiss.net/2010/08/palestinian-refugees-in-lebanon-do-not-only-have-israel-to-blame-for-their-plight.html

        http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/deconstructing-lusticks-illusion.html

        http://mondoweiss.net/2013/08/john-kerrys-doomed-peace-process-is-deja-vu-all-over-again.html

        http://mondoweiss.net/2010/11/sedek-review-the-concrete-steps-needed-to-implement-a-vision.html )

      • talknic
        talknic
        December 1, 2013, 12:43 pm

        @ Sibiriak “1) No actions by Arab states can negate Israel’s responsibility for the Palestinian refugee problem or in any way constitute any kind of moral mitigation of the Nakba”

        Agreed

        “2) Two areas of possible Arab state *ethical* culpability regarding the Palestinian refugee problem: 1) failure to do more to improve the conditions of refugees in camps etc. 2) failure to provide *greater* opportunities for naturalization/ full civil rights.”

        Acceptance of refugees and refugee camps were only temporary measures, not permanent. 65 years later and the host states are caught between temporary and forever by the failure of Israel to allow return of refugees, even to what are clearly Palestinian territories. Israel has been the cause of those temporary measures going pear shaped.

        .

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        December 1, 2013, 9:42 am

        It’s important that we not admit ANY wrongdoing or ethical culpability of any Arab state regarding the Palestinian refugee problem, as that would detract from the anti-Zionist message.

        Putting the issue of return aside for the moment, the example of the Holocaust claims conference demonstrates that the right to compensation is not affected by a change in the victims nationality or country of residence.

        The historical position of the UN and USA on the subject of compensation is that the Arab States and Israel are jointly responsible for the conflict and providing for the displaced Jewish and Arab refugees of Palestine.

        It would be an odd result if the position on responsibility for compensation of former Jewish refugees from Arab states is any different. I’ve commented in the past that the role of Israel and the Zionist organizations in triggering the mass exodus is a matter of public record. The FRUS is available online. So, anyone can read the statements made to our State Department by the responsible Israeli officials on the subject. It’s axiomatic that no state can profit from its own wrongdoing and that the victims have never assigned their private third party claims to the State of Israel for collection or for use as a bargaining chip.

      • Sibiriak
        Sibiriak
        December 1, 2013, 10:59 am

        Hostage:

        … the right to compensation is not affected by a change in the victims nationality or country of residence.

        I very important point.

  7. American
    American
    November 29, 2013, 2:39 pm

    Don’t worry about the Palestine refugees….if our Israeli congress has their way they wont be refugees…they wont be anything. There are dozens of bills like the below every year trying to get the UNRWAgency that oversees Palestine refugee aid disbanded and the refugees turned over to the UN where under the UN rules they lose their ‘refugee status cause the UN rules say they have to be afraid of political persecution in their home countries to be refugees. They will pouff!..disappear and then the Israelis can say..Palestine refugees?..what refugees?…which is the point and goal of these bills naturally.

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/subjects/international_affairs/6215#congress=112&text=Palestine+refugees

    H.R. 5065 (111th): UNRWA Humanitarian Accountability Act
    Sponsor: Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [R-FL27]
    Introduced: Apr 20, 2010
    Referred to Committee: Apr 20, 2010
    H.R. 2475 (111th): Foreign Relations Authorization and Reform Act, Fiscal Years 2010 and 2011
    Sponsor: Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [R-FL27]
    Introduced: May 19, 2009
    Referred to Committee: May 19, 2009
    H.R. 557 (111th): United Nations Transparency, Accountability, and Reform Act of 2009
    Sponsor: Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen [R-FL27]
    Introduced: Jan 15, 2009
    Referred to Committee: Jan 15, 2009
    H.Con.Res. 29 (111th): Expressing the sense of Congress that the United Nations should take immediate steps to improve the transparency and accountability of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees (UNRWA) in the Near East ….
    Sponsor: Rep. Steven Rothman [D-NJ9, 1997-2013]
    Introduced: Jan 28, 2009
    Referred to Committee: Jan 28, 2009

  8. American
    American
    November 29, 2013, 2:50 pm

    People think they know how bad the I-Firsters in our congress are but really they dont know the half of it or how puke worthy it all is till they investigate the bills they try to pass in congress.
    This one will make you vomit…..literally…it goes after the Palestine refugees and the ignorant immigrant punk Rubio is also evidently under the impression the US ‘owns’ the UN and can make rules for and “punish” any UN employees that are critical of Israel..

    112th Congress, 2011–2013. Text as of Nov 10, 2011 (Introduced).

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/s1848/text

    309.
    Anti-Semitism and the United Nations
    The President shall direct the United States permanent representative to the United Nations to use the voice, vote, and influence of the United States at the United Nations to make every effort to—

    (1)
    ensure the issuance and implementation of a directive by the Secretary-General or the Secretariat, as appropriate, that—

    (A)
    requires all employees of the United Nations and its specialized agencies to officially and publicly condemn anti-Semitic statements made at any session of the United Nations or its specialized agencies, or at any other session sponsored by the United Nations;

    (B)
    requires employees of the United Nations and its specialized agencies, programs, and funds to be subject to punitive action, including immediate dismissal, for making anti-Semitic statements or references;

    (C)
    proposes specific recommendations to the General Assembly for the establishment of mechanisms to hold accountable employees and officials of the United Nations and its specialized agencies, programs, and funds, or Member States, that make such anti-Semitic statements or references in any forum of the United Nations or of its specialized agencies;

    (D)
    continues to develop and implements education awareness programs about the Holocaust and anti-Semitism throughout the world, as part of an effort to combat intolerance and hatred; and

    (E)
    requires the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR) to develop programming and other measures that address anti-Semitism;

    (2)
    secure the adoption of a resolution by the General Assembly that establishes the mechanisms described in paragraph (1)(C); and

    (3)
    continue working toward further reduction of anti-Semitic language and anti-Israel resolutions in the United Nations and its specialized agencies, programs, and funds.

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      November 30, 2013, 8:00 pm

      309.
      Anti-Semitism and the United Nations

      And don’t forget, (most) anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism!

  9. amigo
    amigo
    November 29, 2013, 3:20 pm

    “They did not actually understood” so called professor levit.

    One can see why you “misunderstood ” the San Remo docs.

    • MahaneYehude1
      MahaneYehude1
      November 29, 2013, 5:10 pm

      @Amigo:

      You assume that an Israeli commenter must express himself with no mistakes at all when he writes English. Please, don’t forget that English is not our first language even if someone is a professor, scientist or a lawyer. I think the content of a comment is the part that should be addressed.

      • libra
        libra
        November 29, 2013, 6:50 pm

        Mahane, if you, a humble purveyor of potatoes, can write flawless English on a good day, such as today, then surely we should expect no less from a professor of physics?

      • Cliff
        Cliff
        November 30, 2013, 5:49 am

        You are mocked because we know you are a liar and not who you say you are.

        A potato salesman. LOL

        Dont you realize your stupid country has long been known to have both hired and freelance trolls spam the web with hasbara?

      • amigo
        amigo
        November 30, 2013, 10:24 am

        “@Amigo:

        You assume that an Israeli commenter must express himself with no mistakes at all when he writes English. Please, don’t forget that English is not our first language even if someone is a professor, scientist or a lawyer. I think the content of a comment is the part that should be addressed.”mahane 1,2 or 3??.

        Levit,s hasbara has been addressed more then enough.He is a thick skulled Hasbarist and is simply here to spread zio lies and vile nonsense which you refer to as truth.

        You sir , are no better than him except you try to pretend you are human.

        Publicly, condemn the ugly Illegal Settlements and the day to day horrific murders carried out by your so called “most moral army”and the ongoing ethnic cleansing carried out by your so called light unto the nations.

        The we will treat you as a normal human.

  10. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    November 29, 2013, 3:36 pm

    “When was the last time that any United Nations agency raised so much money and invested so much effort in organizing and circulating around the world the documentation of a specific plight like that of the Palestinian refugees? Never,” said Yigal Palmor, the spokesman for Israel’s Foreign Ministry.

    “This only emphasizes the strident anomaly of the dedication of a disproportionate part of the United Nations budget, staff, time and resources to the Palestinian issue exclusively at the expense of, and to the detriment of, all other similar issues,” he added.

    Sounds to me that it simply demonstrates the uniqueness of the israeli evil and perfidy.

  11. ivri
    ivri
    November 29, 2013, 5:39 pm

    When I see the outrage here about fnlevit`s arguments and the profuse insults but no concrete counterargument I suspect he must be onto something…
    The surge of the Palestinian refugees from the original hundreds of thousands into the millions is grotesque. Extrapolated into the future you will have in 2-3 decades 20 million….All wanting “to return” to a miniature piece of land (which the lion share of them has never seen) while leaving behind the immense territories of Arabia.. All this makes very little sense to me

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      November 29, 2013, 7:22 pm

      “When I see the outrage here about fnlevit`s arguments and the profuse insults but no concrete counterargument I suspect he must be onto something…”

      No, zio, he’s not. His propaganda needs no refuting; it’s all be refuted dozens of times before.

      “The surge of the Palestinian refugees from the original hundreds of thousands into the millions is grotesque.”

      No, the theft of their land by you criminals and squatters is grotesque.

      “All wanting “to return” to a miniature piece of land ”

      Okay, then kick out the zios… send them back to Europe or Russia or Brooklyn or wherever they came from, and there will be plenty of room.

      “All this makes very little sense to me”

      Of course, because you no doubt accept the evil proposition that you are permitted to steal their land and are of the bigoted belief that they should accept that.

    • Cliff
      Cliff
      November 29, 2013, 7:34 pm

      Dont delude yourself hasbarat.

      Fn’s bullshit hasbara has been seen here in one form or another for years. The commentators are simply past the point of patiently taking apart your propaganda word salad.

    • American
      American
      November 29, 2013, 8:25 pm

      iriv
      “All this makes very little sense to me”

      Well it should…after all you been claiming to be refugees for 2000 years.
      And even though you are now squatting in a land 90% of you had never set foot in before you’re still whinning about your refugees days and wanting to paid for your prior refugee-ness.

    • Djinn
      Djinn
      November 29, 2013, 10:44 pm

      Only because you have selectively ignored the many many counter arguments that have been posted on this site. Stop expecting people to lead you by the nose and try the search function.

      Do you find sense in the Israeli position that every Jewish person on earth (the overwhelming majority of them not only never having seen the land but neither had their parents or grandparents) being able to move to that tiny spit of land and being able to claim citizenship? If not can you not see that that makes you a supremacist?

    • Sammar
      Sammar
      November 30, 2013, 1:16 am

      ivri – “All wanting “to return” to a miniature piece of land (which the lion share of them has never seen)”

      Isn’t that what the Jews did? With no other connection for the lion share than a dubious religious claim of a “promised land”? So you claim the descendants of some Jews who were expelled 2000 years ago to have a “right” to the land but the descendants of the inhabitants of 60 some years ago do not?
      And why do Jews have the right to leave behind the immense territories of America and become settlers in Occupied Palestine?

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      November 30, 2013, 8:30 am

      Refugees to bots are like garlic to vampires.
      Existential.
      The Jewish Disneyland was built on refugee rights.
      Bring them back and the Disneyland disappears.

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 30, 2013, 8:34 am

      @ivri “no concrete counterargument I suspect he must be onto something”

      Strange. I for one have countered fnlevit`s so called ‘arguments’ in detail with verifiable and factual supporting links

      “All wanting “to return” to a miniature piece of land (which the lion share of them has never seen) “

      Israel is ONLY as proclaimed by the Israeli Government and recognized under International Law. Israel has never legally acquired ANY territory outside of it’s proclaimed frontiers.

      “MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.” http://www.trumanlibrary.org/whistlestop/study_collections/israel/large/documents/newPDF/49.pdf

      Many Palestine refugees were NOT from the territory that was proclaimed as and became Israel. They were from non-Israeli territory that Israel has illegally acquired over 65 years

      For example:

      … refugees from Israel- controlled territory amount to approximately 711,000 http://pages.citebite.com/q1d2i2f0f4upy

      At the time, the Israeli Government claimed it militarily controlled additional territories other than those of the State of Israel

      .. the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard. The Southern Negev … http://pages.citebite.com/x1r0b4d1y6mkv

      These additional territories have never been legally annexed to Israel. It is inadmissible to acquire territory by war http://pages.citebite.com/y1f0t4q1v4son Many of the Palestine refugees are from those areas. NOT ISRAEL!

      “while leaving behind the immense territories of Arabia”

      They’re not from the immense territories of Arabia

      ” All this makes very little sense to me”

      Try reading something other than Hasbara http://wp.me/PDB7k-W

  12. eljay
    eljay
    November 29, 2013, 6:29 pm

    >> Shame on you, real shame, how do you continue to walk on this Earth. Behaving so badly.

    Yes, perfesser, shame on all Zio-supremacists who continue to walk on this Earth. Behaving so badly.

  13. November 29, 2013, 6:34 pm

    Palestinians remain refugees for 65 years for two reasons
    1. As I described above fellow Arab countries kept them in refugee camps – a unique invention of the Arab world. That lead to the absolutely unique phenomenon of Palestinians being the only refugees group which grows and grows for 65 years without being absorbed in the Arab countries. Germans were absorbed, Jews from Arab countries were absorbed but Palestinians were artificially kept with no full human rights and in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan.

    2. Another reason Palestinians remained refugees was this. It is the exact formulation of the UN resolution 194 on the Palestinian right of return. I wonder if the “experts” have actually read it or understood. Its most important article 11 states that
    “Article 11 of the resolution reads:
    (The General Assembly) Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so …
    You see – “..live in peace with their neighbors…”.

    When in the span of 65 years did Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular wanted to live in peace with Israel?
    Let’s look at some facts shall we
    1. In 1948 five Arab countries (on incitement of Palestinian leadership) invaded the new born Israel. If victorious we all know what would had been the final result. No, actually I do not even want to think.
    2. After the shameful defeat Palestinians with the help of Arab countries form guerilla type fedayeen units and conducted nonstop raids on and over the borders of Israel. Mind you those were the 67 borders then.
    3. After another defeat in ‘67, just 3 months after Six Days War the Arab League adopted the declaration in its Khartoum meeting with famous three NO’s – “no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution
    It was in a sence mandatory for all Arabs.
    4. The next defeat in the October 1973 Yom Kippur War convinced the Arabs that they would not be able to destroy Israel through military action within its post-1967 boundaries. Thus they embarked upon a new three-stage strategy for Israel’s destruction, embodied in the Palestine Liberation Organization’s 1974 Political Program, commonly known as the “Phased Plan”, adopted at the 12th Session of the Palestinian National Council, held in Cairo, June 9, 1974.
    Just read this on the official site of the Palestinian UN delegation
    http://www.un.int/wcm/content/site/palestine/pid/12354
    The plan has three main articles:
    • Through the “armed struggle” (i.e., terrorism), to establish an “independent combatant national authority” over any territory that is “liberated” from Israeli rule. (Article 2)
    • To continue the struggle against Israel, using the territory of the national authority as a base of operations. (Article 4)
    • To provoke an all-out war in which Israel’s Arab neighbors destroy it entirely (“liberate all Palestinian territory”). (Article 8).
    So – when was the time that the Palestinian refugees wanted to live peacefully with us?

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      November 29, 2013, 7:05 pm

      “Palestinians remain refugees for 65 years for two reasons”

      Nope, only one: the zionists are criminals.

    • thankgodimatheist
      thankgodimatheist
      November 29, 2013, 9:47 pm

      “when was the time that the Palestinian refugees wanted to live peacefully with us?”
      Oh, crap, fnlevit. Please don’t tell us you haven’t seen the news!
      “Israel never really wanted peace” By Elie Podeh
      “When it comes to peace, Israel’s position today is similar to its position after the wars of 1948 and of 1967: The potential for negotiations was there, but the cost was considered too high. Now, too, maintaining the status quo appears to be preferable to making changes that Israelis perceive as threatening, even if they do not necessarily pose a genuine danger. ”
      http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/israel-never-really-wanted-peace-1.330881

      • thankgodimatheist
        thankgodimatheist
        November 29, 2013, 10:17 pm

        “Israeli Rejectionism”
        A Hidden Agenda in the Middle East Peace Process
        By Zalman Amit and Daphna Levit
        “Zalman Amit and Daphna Levit find overwhelming evidence of Israeli rejectionism as the main cause for the failure of peace. They demonstrate that the Israeli leadership has always been against a fairly negotiated peace and have deliberately stalled negotiations for the last 80 years. The motivations behind this rejectionist position have changed, as have the circumstances of the conflict, but the conclusion has remained consistent – peace has not been in the interest of the state of Israel”.
        https://sites.google.com/a/plutobooks.com/amit/

        You see! I’m only quoting Israeli authors. Didn’t want to upset you with any “biased” prose.

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      November 29, 2013, 10:05 pm

      You see – “..live in peace with their neighbors…”.

      Typical Zionist dishonesty. Like the rapist who argues that he hostility the victim has towards him as a result of the rape proves she had a personal vendetta with him to begin with.

      The hostility that Israel experienced from the following 65 years is a direct result of Israel’s refusal to abide by 194, so you can’t argue that they were right to deny their return all along.

      Even Ben Gurion admitted that most of the Palestinians did not want to fight.

      1. In 1948 five Arab countries (on incitement of Palestinian leadership) invaded the new born Israel.

      False. They invaded Arab Palestine. Israel was NOT invaded.

      If victorious we all know what would had been the final result – the borders would be the same as those of 1948.

      2. After the shameful defeat Palestinians with the help of Arab countries form guerilla type fedayeen units and conducted nonstop raids on and over the borders of Israel.

      After the having expelled 800,000 Palestinians, the Israelis not only refused to allow them to return, but occupied territory well outside it’s legal borders.

      3. After another defeat in ‘67, just 3 months after Six Days War the Arab League adopted the declaration in its Khartoum meeting with famous three NO’s

      Because Israel wanted peace without returning land it took illegally. They were right to say no.

      Israel has said no a lot more than 3 times to the Arab Peace Initiative.

      4. The next defeat in the October 1973 Yom Kippur War convinced the Arabs that they would not be able to destroy Israel

      It was not a defeat at all, but a stalemate, though it represented a strategic defeat for Israel. Israel only managed to avoid total humiliation because Nixon saved their ass.

      And no, the war was not to destroy Israel but take back the land Israel took in 1967.

      Through the “armed struggle” (i.e., terrorism), to establish an “independent combatant national authority” over any territory that is “liberated” from Israeli rule. (Article 2)

      Perfectly legal and no, armed resistance is not terrorism.

      To continue the struggle against Israel, using the territory of the national authority as a base of operations. (Article 4)

      No, it speaks of establishing democracy. Stop lying.

      To provoke an all-out war in which Israel’s Arab neighbors destroy it entirely

      That’s not what it says at all. I speaks of establishing Arab unity.

      Stop lying.

    • lyn117
      lyn117
      November 30, 2013, 12:15 am

      1. In fact, of the 5 Arab nations that declared war on Israel in 1948, only Egypt enroached to any great degree on territory designated for the Jewish state by the UN partition plan. So it is false to say that 5 Arab nations “invaded” the newly formed Israel. In fact, the intervened and rather reluctantly in a war already in progress, if you call it a war. The Zionists already had a well-formed and well-armed army, the Palestinians had nothing but a few guerilla groups, and they had already conducted a few large massacres in their effort to rid Palestine of its native Arab peoples. Most of the fighting was in those areas designated by the UN partiton plan as the Arab state. It is far more accurate to say that Israel invaded the Arab state.
      2. There weren’t non-stop attacks across the borders into Israel following 1848. Many refugees attempted to return, the vast majority of them unarmed (see Benny Morris). The main motive was either to visit relatives, or for economic reasons, for example gathering food or articles they’d left behind, since many were starving having been driven from their homes and access food, and yes, sometimes to steal. Most of the Israelis killed during this period were militants of some kind, armed forces or armed gaurds. Israel had policies of shooting to kill refugees who attempted to return, and they killed thousands. Also quite a number in cross-border massacres in Arab villages. There are very few instances of deliberate attacks on Israeli civilians by any Arabs including Palestinians in the first few years after 1948 (the Israeli MFA could come up with about 24 Israeli deaths during this period from what was clearly attacks on Israeli civilians – compared to the hundreds, or the thousands if you count people trying to return home, killed by deliberate Israeli attacks on Arab civilians, which, of course, Hasbara central doesn’t count). Egypt began arming “fedayeen” only after Israel made a major attack on an Egypt in 1955, and even then, they mostly attacked military targets.

      That is to say, it’s pretty evident that most Palestinian refugees would have been perfectly happy to return and live at peace with their neighbors and probably still are, Israel has always had every violent intention to anyone who tried and has always killed or imprisoned those who did.

      Well, what do you expect from the Habara “C” team but some bogus history with a few factoids thrown in, something pretty far from the truth and nothing but the truth that MahaneYehuda thinks we deserve (but never get from Hasbara Central) and even further from the whole truth.

    • just
      just
      November 30, 2013, 10:13 am

      “So – when was the time that the Palestinian refugees wanted to live peacefully with us?”

      What a complete disaster you and yours are! You are helping to drive the ugliness of Zionism over the cliff. Your hubris and all of your other junk that you spew in the face of truth and justice are evil.

      Evil and ugly.

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 30, 2013, 10:47 am

      “So – when was the time that the Palestinian refugees wanted to live peacefully with us?” levit.

      Here is Israel,s commitment to peace with the Palestinians.

      “Note that most, if not all, of the quotes below are dated before the entry of any single Arab Army into British Mandated Palestine: * In a letter Chaim Weizmann sent to the Palestine-British high Commissioner, while the Peel Commission was convening in 1937, he stated: “We shall spread in the whole country in the course of time ….. this is only an arrangement for the next 25 to 30 years.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 66) * Ben-Gurion emphasized that the acceptance of the Peel Commission would not imply static borders for the future “Jewish state”. In a letter Ben-Gurion sent to his son in 1937, he wrote: “No Zionist can forgo the smallest portion of the Land Of Israel. [A] Jewish state in part [of Palestine] is not an end, but a beginning ….. Our possession is important not only for itself … through this we increase our power, and every increase in power facilitates getting hold of the country in its entirety. Establishing a [small] state …. will serve as a very potent lever in our historical effort to redeem the whole country.” (Righteous Victims, p. 138) * In 1938, Ben-Gurion made it clear of his support for the “Jewish state” on part of Palestine was only as a stepping ground for a complete conquest. He wrote: “[I am] satisfied with part of the country, but on the basis of the assumption that after we build up a strong force following the establishment of the state–we will abolish the partition of the country and we will expand to the whole Land of Israel.” (Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 107 & One Palestine Complete, p. 403) * One day after the UN vote to partition Palestine, Menachem Begin, the commander of the Irgun gang and Israel’s future Prime Minister between 1977-1983, proclaimed: “The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized …. Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever.” (Iron Wall p. 25) * “”Shamir has said Israel must keep the territories in order to accommodate the immigrants. “A great aliyah [immigration],” he said, “requires a Greater Israel.”(5)

      Sure don,t see a Partner in peace there.I see a brutal oppressive racist group of supremacist b——-ds who never intended to allow a State of Palestine.

      As to shame, that is all yours as you spent your life living a lie.

      Not to worry levit—-tic toc. All coming to an end in the not too distant future.I just hope you are around to see it.

      • amigo
        amigo
        December 1, 2013, 12:17 pm

        We can,t hear you levit.

        Busy searching all those “anti peace with the Palestinians” blogs.

        Come on levit, let,s see you disprove the contents of my above post.

        Get out from behind that hasbara manual and show us your own views not those who hold you by the hand and put the hasbara spin in your mouth.

        How degrading for a Professor.

    • Sibiriak
      Sibiriak
      November 30, 2013, 8:09 pm

      So – when was the time that the Palestinian refugees wanted to live peacefully with us?

      Most all the Palestinians who managed not to be expelled in 1947-8 have lived in Israel as peaceful citizens.

  14. Woody Tanaka
    Woody Tanaka
    November 29, 2013, 7:04 pm

    “Or uniqueness of Arab evil in what they are doing to their brothers. ”

    Nope, it’s the zionists which have the unique evil. When one considers the fact that the Arab world offered a comprehensive peace over a decade ago that was more generous than the zionists deserve and the fact that that offer was ignored, one can see that it is the zionists who are on the side of the devil in this thing. What you want is for the Arab world to help you commit your devilish crime. It’s a testament to the depths of your depravity and the criminality of your ideology that you would condemn them for that.

    “We have absorbed Jewish refugees from Arab countries so that they are not refugees now’

    They’re aiding and abetting your crimes in stealing Palestinian land and ethically cleansing them. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

    “Shame on you, real shame, how do you continue to walk on this Earth. Behaving so badly.”

    LMAO. I’ll take that the same way I would take an insult from a Nazi thug or a Klansman, who are the equal to your average zionist like you.

  15. thankgodimatheist
    thankgodimatheist
    November 29, 2013, 9:30 pm

    ” uniqueness of Arab evil in what they are doing to their brothers”
    Let’s assume for the sake of argument that what the Arabs have done is “uniquely evil” (despicable accusation btw, given what has been actually done since 1948), is that any more evil that what YOU have done and still are doing to them? How about your responsibility towards those you expelled in the first place? Why should Arabs exonerate Israel of its obligation to abide by International Law and the Geneva Convention both of which unequivocally stating they should be allowed to return to their country?

  16. Shingo
    Shingo
    November 29, 2013, 10:06 pm

    Or uniqueness of Arab evil in what they are doing to their brothers.

    There is nothing unique about. Israel treated Jews just as badly.

  17. Djinn
    Djinn
    November 29, 2013, 10:43 pm

    That’s just it though bigot, your country has a racist policy towards refugees, accepting only those with a certain religious bent (although you lot insist that it’s a race). Millions of Palestinians remain refugees because they have been prevented by YOUR country from returning to their homes. It wouldn’t matter one whit what Arab countries did if YOURS did not ignore international law.

  18. Sammar
    Sammar
    November 30, 2013, 1:09 am

    fnlevit – “We have absorbed Jewish refugees from Arab countries so that they are not refugees now. ”

    That’s rich – you not only “absorbed” Jewish refugees from Arab countries, you worked very hard ( not shying away from using bribes, threats and even terrorism) to make them leave their homes and move to Palestine. You NEEDED them to lay a claim to the country and to fill the homes of the native inhabitants you expelled.
    They really can’t be called “refugees” with the best of intentions.

    • Walker
      Walker
      November 30, 2013, 10:07 am

      That’s rich – you not only “absorbed” Jewish refugees from Arab countries, you worked very hard ( not shying away from using bribes, threats and even terrorism) to make them leave their homes and move to Palestine.

      That is the truth.

      In addition, when hasbarists couple Palestinian refugees and Jewish immigrants, they usually don’t mention the fact that the Palestinians were driven out first, in 1948. Jewish immigration from Arab countries happened later, over a period of many years. Hasbarists would like to have the public believe that there was a symmetrical exchange at one point in time, making the two issues appear equal. They are not.

  19. Sammar
    Sammar
    November 30, 2013, 1:20 am

    fnlevit

    Kindly explain to me how you would live in peace with a neighbor who kicks you out of your house, keeps stealing your property, takes away all your human rights and keeps maiming and killing members of your family?

  20. talknic
    talknic
    November 30, 2013, 1:28 am

    @ fnlevit “Palestinians remain refugees for 65 years for two reasons..”

    1) Israel has refused to allow RoR for refugees whose normal place of abode was within the territory proclaimed and recognized as the State of Israel

    2) The State of Israel even refuses refugees hosted in Arab States to return to the territory that remained of Palestine after Israel was proclaimed. None of which has ever been legally acquired by Israel

    Now to you BULLSH*T!! The Arab states hosting Palestine refugees did not A) dispossess them or B) have a legal or moral obligation to assimilate them if they would rather return to their rightful home lands

    ” As I described above fellow Arab countries kept them in refugee camps – a unique invention of the Arab world”

    You really have lost the plot! A) the Arab states have hosted Palestine refugees for 65 years at incredible expense financially and socially and: B) It is not unique. Refugees are hosted by numerous countries around the world.

    “Germans were absorbed, Jews from Arab countries were absorbed”

    So what? It’s as irrelevant as the stupid “we made the desert bloom”, a nonsense argument. Refugees have a right to maintain their refugee status in order to return to their homes. They also have a right if they wish to become citizens of a country other than that of return and get compensation for their homes. However, like the Arab Jews from the Arab states who became for example Israeli citizens, they would longer have any refugee rights. There are no longer any 1948/50 Arab Jewish refugees from the Arab countries BTW and; Arab Jewish refugees in Israel were cared for by UNRWA until 1953 when the Israeli Government took over responsibility

    ” Article 11 of the resolution reads:
    (The General Assembly) Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so …
    You see – “..live in peace with their neighbors…”

    What I see is typical Israeli apologist schmuck cherry picking. You HAD to leave a big chunk out to make a tattered & lame strawman suffering from your dishonesty. Bravo!

    11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;

    Another problem with your stupid wholly holey moldy olde Hasbara theory is that RoR is an INDIVIDUAL right. The individual must agree to live in peace. Basing RoR on a peace agreement between Israel and another entity is stupidity beyond belief. If they returned they’d be a Israeli citizens!

    “When in the span of 65 years did Arabs in general and Palestinians in particular wanted to live in peace with Israel?”

    With a so called ‘peace loving’ neighbour who has illegally acquired big chunks of what remained of Palestine after Israel was proclaimed? Peace comes after withdrawal. Read the Egypt Israeli Peace Treaty http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/peace/guide/pages/israel-egypt%20peace%20treaty.aspx

    “Let’s look at some facts shall we”

    Oh OK got any?
    “1. In 1948 five Arab countries (on incitement of Palestinian leadership) invaded the new born Israel.”

    The Israeli Government website tells us they invaded “Palestine”, not Israel http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/MFADocuments/Yearbook1/Pages/5%20Arab%20League%20declaration%20on%20the%20invasion%20of%20Pales.aspx and; UNSC resolutions on the Question of Palestine call for “peace in Palestine”, not Israel.

    “If victorious we all know what would had been the final result. No, actually I do not even want to think”

    Speculation is not a ‘fact’ (and with a Hasbara sodden brain it’s probably impossible to think)

    “2. After the shameful defeat”

    Strange. Israel was prevented from taking all of Palestine.

    “… famous three NO’s ..”

    Peace comes after withdrawal: The Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty is a prime example. States are required to have”respect for and acknowledgement of” Egypt’s “sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence” http://pages.citebite.com/g1m6s3q1x5hpw . Israel agreed to withdrawal from all Egyptian territory before peaceful relations were assumed. Egypt withdrew from non-Israeli territory whose status has yet to be determined under the 1949 Armistice agreement, leaving Israel as the Occupying Power over non-Israeli/non-Egyptian territory. Israel has never legally annexed any of the territories it illegally acquired by war before it became a UN Member State

    There is no legal obligation to recognize another state: Nor is there a legal basis for demanding recognition. This can be seen in the UN which has some Member states who do not recognize each other. States are only required to have “respect for and acknowledgement of” sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence and people’s “right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force”

    What’s to negotiate? : States are obliged to adhere to the law. Again, refer to the Egypt/Israel Peace Treaty which was the fulfillment (between Israel and Egypt at least) of UNSC res 242 which DOESN’T contain the word negotiate http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/7D35E1F729DF491C85256EE700686136 Instead it says states must have “respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;”
    The only thing negotiated was how and when withdrawal took place.

    “Just read this on the official site of the Palestinian UN delegation
    http://www.un.int/wcm/content/site/palestine/pid/12354

    OK I read it! You cherry picked, added, changed omitted words

    ” Through the “armed struggle” (i.e., terrorism), to establish an “independent combatant national authority” over any territory that is “liberated” from Israeli rule.”

    Only lying schmucks add words that don’t exist and leave important words out

    2. The Palestine Liberation Organization will employ all means, and first and foremost armed struggle,to liberate Palestinian territory and to establish the independent combatant national authority for the people over every part of Palestinian territory that is liberated.

    To provoke an all-out war in which Israel’s Arab neighbors destroy it entirely (“liberate all Palestinian territory”). “

    8. Once it is established, the Palestinian national authority will strive to achieve a union of the confrontation countries, with the aim of completing the liberation of all Palestinian territory, and as a step along the road to comprehensive Arab unity.

    It is quite legal to protect and reclaim ones territory and form alliances

  21. MahaneYehude1
    MahaneYehude1
    November 30, 2013, 2:54 am

    @talknic;

    Speculation is not a ‘fact’

    I agree with you that speculations are not “facts”. Now, please, read Shingo and lyn117, for instance, and see if you can find several speculations. Then, I believe you that you are not biased and seek for the truth only.

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 30, 2013, 12:16 pm

      MahaneYehude1 “Now, please, read Shingo and lyn117, for instance, and see if you can find several speculations”

      If you’re claiming there are, please point them out … thx

      • talknic
        talknic
        December 1, 2013, 7:18 am

        Seems MahaneYehude1 is suddenly too busy purveying potatoes to respond

      • miriam6
        miriam6
        December 1, 2013, 9:56 am

        Seems MahaneYehude1 is suddenly too busy purveying potatoes to respond

        The man is gainfully employed thank goodness – don’t knock it talknic.

      • talknic
        talknic
        December 1, 2013, 9:28 pm

        @ miriam6

        Uh huh. Gainful employment seems to occur a lot when Israels apologists can’t answer reasonably asked questions or provide any actual evidence to back their claims

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        December 2, 2013, 3:03 am

        MY is a troll and a time waster. It’s time to give him the boot. He has no interests in honest debate.

      • talknic
        talknic
        December 2, 2013, 12:54 pm

        @ Shingo
        “He has no interests in honest debate.”

        There’s an irony in their being here. Affording the opportunity for readers who’re perhaps looking to form an honest opinion on the I/P conflict to be shown just how dishonest and in denial many of Israel’s apologists are.

        Even more moronically ironic, is to break the most basic of Judaism’s tenets in their support of the Jewish state’s coveting of other folks territory.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        December 2, 2013, 1:33 pm

        @talknic:

        “dishonest and in denial” – Any opinion which doesn’t support or with the same line of your (plural) opinions is regarded “dishonest and in denial”, meaning we have no chance here. I please ask you to stop with your arrogant arguments like “break the most basic of Judaism’s tenets”. You have no right to the tenets of Judaism and not one like you teach us these tenets. The fact that you can’t see the sufferings of all victims of this conflict, the Israeli mother’s tears, the many graves surrounding our cities and villages, is the real break of Judaism tenets, not my comments that call for peace and reconciliation. Real peace with Israel, not instead of Israel.

  22. Cliff
    Cliff
    November 30, 2013, 5:50 am

    Phil Weiss bans Jeff Blankfort for no reason but allows Nakba denial from fnlevit and kahaneyahude to continue.

  23. talknic
    talknic
    November 30, 2013, 7:36 am

    @ fnlevit
    “We have absorbed Jewish refugees from Arab countries so that they are not refugees now”

    Uh huh. So what? That’s what the Jewish state is SPECIFICALLY FOR is it not!

    The Arab states are not specifically for Arab refugees from the territory that became Israel or cleansed from the territory that remained of Palestine by Jewish forces after Israel was proclaimed. They have however generously hosted Arab Palestine refugees for 65 years.

    BTW About half of the Arab Jewish refugees didn’t flee to Israel, preferring instead non-Jewish states.

    “Or uniqueness of Arab evil in what they are doing to their brothers”

    No other countries in the world have hosted refugees for 65 years as far as I know.

    Shame on you, real shame, how do you continue to walk on this Earth. Behaving so badly”

    Save it pal. It is Israel in breach of hundreds of UNSC resolutions, Israel who has been given HUNDREDS of chances to abide by the law, Israel who has illegally acquired non-Israeli territory, illegally annexed, illegally settled and started ALL of its preemptive wars.

    It has been successive Israeli Governments encouraging Israeli civilians to break GC IV, a convention adopted to protect ALL civilians including those of the Occupying Power from the possible violent consequences of occupying another people and their territory. What kind of governments purposefully endanger their citizens AND sell them land that does not legally belong to the state? Shame on them, shame on you.

    Your Hasbara BS is full of GAPING great holes. Disproved by the very documents Hasbarristers love to cite, the EXPIRED LoN Mandate for Palestine and disproved by Jewish Agency and Israeli Government statements on the record at the UN and UNSC and in the Knesset. http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk

  24. November 30, 2013, 11:21 am

    First – calling arguments hasbara does not make them wrong. Second I have carefully read through all the comments and can say that apart of curses and teenage girl type of emotions I do not find anything which contradicts what I said namely :

    Palestinian refugees remain the only refugee group which was refused to be absorbed by the hosting countries for three generations. It is an unbelievable fact. The ONLY GROUP. This is the data to be explained.
    Look again at the chart – how this stands out in such a singular way.

    https://www.google.co.il/search?q=store+folketingsgruppe+image&espv=210&es_sm=93&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=YN6YUsOQFMKw7Aa-34GAAQ&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1045&bih=444#es_sm=93&espv=210&q=store%20flyktningsgrupper%20i%20verden%20i%20de%20siste%2075&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgrc=gBwFOQLHqCUuxM%3A%3BROa6r8grsjKFUM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftarud.files.wordpress.com%252F2013%252F05%252Fflyktninger-diagram-1b.jpg%253Fw%253D1024%2526h%253D647%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Ftarud.wordpress.com%252Fcategory%252Fflyktninger%252F%3B1024%3B647

    Germans were absorbed by postwar Germany, Greeks from Cyprus by Greece, Vietnamese by many countries, etc, etc. Actually someone with his seemingly contradicting me comment here helped me to strengthen this – indeed Arab Jewish refugees went in large numbers (probably close to 30-40%) to other countries than Isael, like France. And what – they were absorbed there too.

    It is an unbelievable fact that there exist a group of refugees which is growing and growing just because their children and grand children are kept by the host countries in the refugee status without granting them full rights. Why don’t you, as “progressive community” fight for that – to get the Palestinians equal rights in their host countries? If you really care about them (and not just to bash Israel) then gaining full rights would bring them immediate benefits now.

    What you are doing is not helping Palestinians – rather it is (for some paid for some voluntary) service for most reactionary and extreme forces in the entire Arab world. For 65 years they were using Israel to divert the attention of their “working people classes” from the awful explotation and injustice they were subjected to. Where has all that oil money gone? Blame Israel. All this corruption? Blame Israel. All the military ineptitude? Blame Israel. Civil wars in Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, wars between Iran and Iraq? Blame Israel. Not a single Nobel Prize (apart of Abdus Salam from ICTP, Trieste). Blame Israel. Not a single University worth sending your students to? Blame Israel. Etc, etc.

    Very convenient and you are helping all this injustice of hundreds of millions. Shame.Real shame.

    • Hostage
      Hostage
      December 1, 2013, 3:30 pm

      Palestinian refugees remain the only refugee group which was refused to be absorbed by the hosting countries for three generations. It is an unbelievable fact.

      That’s utterly false. It simply demonstrates that you are an ignoramus. Chris Gunness, the UNRWA’s spokesman, reponded to that myth in one of your largest Israeli news services:

      All refugee communities, whether those under the care of UNRWA or UNHCR, have their refugee status passed through the generations while their plight remains unresolved. Refugees in Kenya administered by UNHCR are a good example. In this regard, the accusation that UNRWA uniquely perpetuates the Palestine refugee problem is ignorant of international refugee law and practice.

      link to ynetnews.com
      FYI, there have been second and third generation refugees in the other UNHCR programs and those operated under the terms of the 1951 Refugee Convention. See for example the reports on camps in Thailand here and here

      • tree
        tree
        December 1, 2013, 4:13 pm

        Fnlevit,

        Since it has been proven over and over again, and now proven again in Hostage’s link that refugee status for ALL refugees everywhere, not just Palestinian refugees, is passed through the generations and that your statement above is a falsehood, are you honest and courageous enough to admit that you were wrong on this issue?

        Or are you impervious to truth?

        In case you doubt an UNRWA spokesman here is an excerpt from an earlier comment of mine directly quoting the UNHCR definition of derivative refugee status.

        5.1 Derivative Refugee Status

        5.1.1 General Principles

        Family members/dependants of a recognized refugee may apply for derivative refugee status in accordance with their right to family unity.

        Family members/dependants who are determined to fall within the criteria for refugee status in their own right should be granted refugee status rather than derivative refugee status.

        Individuals who obtain derivative status enjoy the same rights and entitlements as other recognized refugees, and should retain this status notwithstanding the subsequent dissolution of the family through separation, divorce, death, or the fact that a child reaches the age of majority. Procedures relating to cancellation and cessation of refugee status will also apply to persons who have received derivative refugee status.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/censors-palestinian-narrative.html/comment-page-1#comment-606650

        original source here: http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/home/opendocPDFViewer.html?docid=43170ff81e&query=Procedural%20Standards%20for%20Refugee%20Status%20Determination

        Do you have the moral fiber to admit that you were wrong? Do you have any moral fiber at all?

      • tree
        tree
        December 1, 2013, 4:22 pm

        This may elucidate the real reasons for the protracted nature of the plight of Palestinian refugees:

        During a meeting of its Standing Committee in March 2008, UNHCR informed that “at the end of 2006, over half of the 9.9 million refugees worldwide were living in exile in protracted situations.”

        It noted that “The 10 largest populations living in protracted situations were: 1. Over 1 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan, 2. Nearly 1 million Afghan refugees in the Islamic Republic of Iran, 3. 350,000 Burundians in the United Republic of Tanzania, 4. 215,000 Sudanese in Uganda, 5. 174,000 Somalis in Kenya, 6. 157,000 Eritreans in Sudan, 7. 132,000 Angolans in the Democratic Republic of Congo, 8. 132,000 refugees from Myanmar in Thailand, 9. 128,000 Congolese (DRC) in the United Republic of Tanzania, 10. 107,000 Bhutanese in Nepal.”

        The meeting was further informed that there had been a substantial recent reduction in numbers of refugees in protracted situations because the durable solution of voluntary return to their countries had been achieved. The minutes record “the substantial decrease in the number of refugees in protracted situations can be attributed to a handful of major repatriation operations in recent years. In 2005 and 2006, more than 1.8 million long-term refugees returned to their country of origin, more than a million of them to Afghanistan alone. Substantial numbers were also repatriated in Africa, particularly Angola, Burundi, Liberia and Sudan.”

        The UNHCR Global Appeal for 2010 and 2011, Finding Durable Solutions estimated that about 1.2 million UNHCR refugees would return to their homes, during that period. These figures attest to the fact that voluntary repatriation is the “preferred choice” for refugees.

        http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/features/exploding-myths-unrwa-unhcr-and-palestine-refugees?id=1029

        The right of refugees are not negated by the actions or inactions of their host countries. Refugees retain the right to choose whether they wish to return to their country of origin or not, and, like all other refugees the world over, voluntary repatriation is the overwhelming choice. But Israel continues to deny them that choice. THAT is what is unique, and uniquely evil, about the plight of the Palestinian refugees.

      • Hostage
        Hostage
        December 1, 2013, 4:36 pm

        P.S. Re: the only refugee group which was refused to be absorbed by the hosting countries for three generations.

        I think you’re probably projecting just a bit. Jewish refugees from the Pale of Settlement loitered around Palestine for several generations living off charitable donations that flowed to them from sources worldwide. They never opted to become Ottoman subjects or pay taxes. They actively sought-out the protection and assistance of one or more foreign western consulates and the special legal status of a “protégé”. See for example Ruth Kark, American Consuls in the Holy Land, 1832-1914, Wayne State University Press, 1994.

        Here is a paper from Hebrew University that describes some aspects of the practice:

        But what is it that made Austria such an important power? A glance at the demographic composition of the Jewish population in Jerusalem during the second half of the nineteenth century will shed light on this subject.

        Until the beginning of the nineteenth century, Jerusalem’s Jewish population was comprised almost exclusively of Oriental Jews – Sephardim – who were rayas – deprived, non-Muslim Ottoman subjects.
        From 1810 onwards, waves of immigrants from Europe, mostly from the Russian Empire, arrived in the city, turning East-European Jewry – Ashkenazim – into the majority in the Yishuv toward the end of the
        century. In the late 1840s, The Tsar denounced the immigrants’ citizenships, and they had to seek protection from other European Powers.

        Lacking a firm base in the local French-oriented Christian community and Church, the Austrian Vice-Consul, like his English and Prussian counterparts, sought ways to expand his influence by acquiring Jewish protégés.

        The higher diplomatic ranks in Constantinople and Vienna did not approve of this step, but Pizzamano finally succeeded in convincing them.

        He pointed out local Jews’ importance as an anchor for the Austrian endeavor in the East, and warned of the consequences of rejecting the East-European Jews’ request. The desperate Jews would ask Britain for
        protection, a step that would strengthen the British – and more importantly, the Protestant – influence in the city. Subsequently, as early as the 1850s, most European Jews in Jerusalem were Austrian subjects or protégés, and Habsburg was known worldwide to be the Great Power most interested in the fate of the Jews of the Orient.

        The Austrian presence among the Jews of Jerusalem had a financial aspect as well. The pious residents of the Holy City traditionally relied on donations, which arrived from Jewish communities worldwide, including the Habsburg Empire.

        — See The Habsburgs and the Jewish Philanthropy in Jerusalem
        during the Crimean War (1853-6) http://www.ef.huji.ac.il/publications/BenGhedalia.pdf

      • Walid
        Walid
        December 1, 2013, 4:46 pm

        “Palestinian refugees remain the only refugee group which was refused to be absorbed by the hosting countries for three generations. It is an unbelievable fact.”

        About 100,000 Palestinians were naturalized by Lebanon between the 50s, the 60s and the 90s. Lebanon was still under Syrian occupation in the last batch to be naturalized 15 years ago.. Legislation was being prepared to absorb another 200,000 when the Palestinian leadership got in the way, saying that such mass naturalizations would jeopardize the Palestinians’ right of return. At the time, the US was ready to come through with billions to cover the cost. Naturalizing more Palestinians has since become a taboo subject because it would break the fragile sectarian balance in the country. Those that were naturalized were mostly Christians Palestinians and few Shias and the only reason they were naturalized was to balance out the demographics between the sects. What remained were mostly all Sunni Muslims that the Lebanese Sunni would be happy to absorb because it would put their numbers ahead of the other sects. It’s for this reason that the others, the Christians, the Druze and the Shia could never accept to naturalize the remaining Palestinians.

        Jordan also naturalized about 2 million Palestinian refugees. As to Syria, contrary to Lebanon, Palestinian refugees have almsot the same full rights of Syrians and allowed to work in most trades and professions, they are all eligible for state-sponsored medical help, free education in conjunction with UNRWA and free college tuition.

      • James North
        James North
        December 1, 2013, 10:02 pm

        Second Memo to Hasbara Central: Talknic, Hostage, tree and Walid have eviscerated fnlevit. Please send Mondoweiss someone from your A Team. Or maybe your arguments are so weak that you have no A Team?

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        December 1, 2013, 11:47 pm

        @James North:

        Second Memo to Hasbara Central: Talknic, Hostage, tree and Walid have eviscerated fnlevit

        What about you? Are you a part of A team or you are here just to send us your memos?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        December 2, 2013, 6:45 am

        Or maybe fnlevit is their A team?

    • eljay
      eljay
      December 1, 2013, 3:44 pm

      >> Shame.Real shame.

      The real shame, perfesser, is that hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like you drove the Palestinians you didn’t kill out of their homes and off of their lands so that you could establish a supremacist “Jewish State”.

      The real shame, perfesser, is that hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like you continue to deny those Palestinians their right to return to their homes and lands because you wish for your supremacist “Jewish State” to remain a supremacist “Jewish State”.

      You, perfesser, and hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists like you, are the real shame.

    • Ellen
      Ellen
      December 1, 2013, 4:27 pm

      fnlevit, Under international law the Palestinians have a right to return, which would resolve their refugee status. Allowed to excercise this right, some will return and some will not. Maybe many will not. But granting this right will resolve the refugee status.

      The UN granted the Zionist enterprise a state. With that the Zionist were obligated and agreed not to dislocate native people. Yet they immediately did exactly that.

      Who, exactly is cruelly keeping Palestinians as refugees?

      It really is that simple and has nothing to do with your imagination of what other countries should to do enable the original sins of the Zionist.

      • just
        just
        December 1, 2013, 4:32 pm

        Well said, Ellen, tree and Hostage– many thanks.

        I’m waiting for fnlevit’s response and apology.

        (I’m not holding my breath.)

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        December 1, 2013, 5:27 pm

        Refugees may choose to accept citizenship elsewhere but have no obligation to do so. If they choose to make a continuing challenge to those who have excluded them that must be their right.

    • talknic
      talknic
      December 2, 2013, 3:23 pm

      @ fnlevit

      ” calling arguments hasbara does not make them wrong.”

      Correct. We call it Hasbara because they ARE wrong

      ” I have carefully read through all the comments and can say that apart of curses and teenage girl type of emotions I do not find anything which contradicts what I said “

      Your denialism is superb

      “Palestinian refugees remain the only refugee group which was refused to be absorbed by the hosting countries for three generations. It is an unbelievable fact.”

      No it isn’t and you have been shown it isn’t with reliable sources

  25. pabelmont
    pabelmont
    November 30, 2013, 2:32 pm

    Can it be that NYT (“newspaper of record”, “all the news that fits we print”) can have ignored an important story?

    Sadly, yes.

    150th Anniversary: 1851-2001; Turning Away From the Holocaust
    By MAX FRANKEL
    Published: November 14, 2001
    AND then there was failure: none greater than the staggering, staining failure of The New York Times to depict Hitler’s methodical extermination of the Jews of Europe as a horror beyond all other horrors in World War II — a Nazi war within the war crying out for illumination.

    The annihilation of six million Jews would not for many years become distinctively known as the Holocaust. But its essence became knowable fast enough, from ominous Nazi threats and undisputed eyewitness reports collected by American correspondents, agents and informants. Indeed, a large number of those reports appeared in The Times. But they were mostly buried inside its gray and stolid pages, never featured, analyzed or rendered truly comprehensible.

    So, possibly, Palestine-in-exile is in a form of good company. OTOH, some argue that NYT (and other Jewish-run papers) “hid” the holocuast on the theory that to point at it too vigorously would be bad for American Jews. That theory could also explain the stupid reporting that THIS article addresses.

  26. December 1, 2013, 5:19 pm

    Well, here is a list of 30 groups of refugees since WW2 most of whom were resettled by their host countries.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee

    1. The partition of the British Raj provinces of Panjab and Bangal and the subsequent independence of Pakistan and one day later of India in 1947 resulted in the largest human movement in history. In this population exchange, approximately 7 million Hindus and Sikhsfrom Bangladesh and Pakistan moved to India while approximately 7 million Muslims from Indiamoved to Pakistan. Approximately one million Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs died during this event.
    2. Following the Greek Civil War (1946–1949) hundreds of thousands of Greeks and Ethnic Macedonians were expelled or fled the country. The number of refugees ranged from 35,000 to over 213,000.

    3. In 1956–57 following the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 nearly 200,000 persons, about two percent of the population of Hungary, fled as refugees to Austria and West Germany.

    4. The Warsaw Pact invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968 was followed by a wave of emigration, unseen before and stopped shortly after (estimate: 70,000 immediately, 300,000 in total).

    5. During the Bangladesh War of Independence in 1971 around 10 million Bangladeshis fled the country to escape the killings and atrocities committed by the Pakistan Army.

    6. It is estimated that 40% of the Greek population of Cyprus, as well as over half of the Turkish Cypriot population, were displaced during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in 1974. The figures for internally displaced Cypriots varies, the United Peacekeeping force in Cyprus (UNFICYP) estimates 165,000 Greek Cypriots and 45,000 Turkish Cypriots. The UNHCR registers slightly higher figures of 200,000 and 65,000 respectively, being partly based on official Cypriot statistics which register children of displaced families as refugees.[141] The separation of the two communities via the UN patrolled Green Line prohibited the return of all internally displaced people.

    7. Large numbers of Vietnamese refugees came into existence after 1975 when South Vietnam fell to the communist forces. Many tried to escape, some by boat, thus giving rise to the phrase “boat people”. The Vietnamese refugees emigrated to Hong Kong, France, the United States, Canada,Australia, and other countries, creating sizable expatriate communities, notably in the United States. Since 1975, an estimated 1.4 million refugees from Vietnam and other Southeast Asian countries have been resettled to the United States.[123] Most Asian countries were unwilling to accept refugees.

    8. More than one million Salvadorans were displaced during the Salvadoran Civil War from 1975 to 1982. About half went to the United States, most settling in the Los Angeles area. There was also a large exodus of Guatemalans during the 1980s, trying to escape from the Civil War and genocide there as well. These people went to Southern Mexico and the U.S.
    9. Survivors of the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia fled across the border into Thailand after the Vietnamese invasion of 1978–79. Approximately 300,000 of these people were eventually resettled in the United States, France, Canada, and Australia between 1979 and 1992, when the camps were closed and the remaining people repatriated.

    10. Nearly 400,000 Laotians fled to Thailand after the Vietnam War and communist takeover in 1975. Some left because of persecution by the government for religious or ethnic purposes. Most left between 1976 and 1985 and lived in refugee camps along the border between Thailand and Laos. They mostly settled in the United States, Canada, France, and Australia. In the United States they mostly settled in Washington State, California, Washington DC, Texas, Virginia, and Minnesota.

    11. The forced assimilation campaign of the late 1980s directed against ethnic Turks resulted in the emigration of some 300,000 Bulgarian Turks to Turkey.

    12. The Palestinian expulsion from Kuwait or “1991 Palestinian exodus from Kuwait” took place at the end of the Gulf War, when Kuwaitexpelled almost 450,000 Palestinians.[182] The policy which led to this exodus was a response to the alignment of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and the PLO with Saddam Hussein, who had earlier invaded Kuwait. The exodus took place during one week in March 1991, following Kuwait’s liberation from Iraqi occupation.

    13. Beginning in 1991, political upheavals in the Balkans such as the breakup of Yugoslavia, displaced about 2,700,000 people by mid-1992, of which over 700,000 of them sought asylum in Europe.

    14. In 1999, about one million Albanians escaped from Serbian persecution.

    15. More than 250,000 people, mostly Georgians but some others too, were the victims of forcible displacement and ethnic-cleansing fromAbkhazia during the War in Abkhazia between 1992 and 1993, and afterwards in 1993 and 1998.[144]
    16. From 1992 ongoing conflict has taken place in Chechenya, Caucasus due to independence proclaimed by this republic in 1991 which is not accepted by the Russian Federation or any other state in the world. As a consequence about 2 million people have been displaced and still cannot return to their homes. At the end of the Soviet era, ethnic Russians comprised about 23% of the population (269,000 in 1989). Due to widespread lawlessness and ethnic cleansing under the government of Dzhokhar Dudayev most non-Chechens (and many Chechens as well) fled the country during the 1990s or were killed.
    17. The Nagorno Karabakh conflict has resulted in the displacement of 528,000 Azerbaijanis (this figure does not include new born children of these IDPs) from Armenian occupied territories including Nagorno Karabakh, and 220,000 Azeris and 18,000 Kurds fled from Armenia to Azerbaijan from 1988 to 1989.
    18. Between 1984 and 1999, the Turkish Armed Forces and various groups claiming to represent the Kurdish people have engaged in open war, and much of the countryside in the southeast was depopulated,

    19. Bangladesh hosts more than 250,000 Muslim Rohingya refugees forced from western Burma(Myanmar) who fled in 1991-92 to escape persecution by the Burmese military junta.

    20. Today there are still thousands of refugees and internally displaced persons in the Balkan Region who cannot return to their homes. Most of them are Serbs who cannot return to Kosovo, and who still live in refugee camps in Serbia today. Over 200,000 Serbs and other non-Albanian minorities fled or were expelled from Kosovo after the Kosovo War in 1999.

    21. An estimated 90,000 people have been displaced in the 2012 sectarian violence between Rohingya Muslims and Buddhists in Burma’s western Rakhine State.
    22. After the 1959 Tibetan exodus, there are more than 150,000 Tibetans who live in India,
    23. In 1991–92, Bhutan expelled roughly 100,000 ethnic Nepalis.
    24. As many as 200,000 Nepalese were displaced during the Maoist insurgency and Nepalese Civil War which ended in 2006. Some of them resettled in India. In March 2008, this population began a multiyear resettlement to third countries including the United States, New Zealand, Denmark, Canada, Norway and Australia. At present, the United States is working towards resettling more than 60,000 of these refugees in the US as a third country settlement programme.
    25. The civil war in Sri Lanka, from 1983 to 2009 had generated thousands of internally displaced people as well as refugees most of them being the Tamils. Many Sri Lankans have fled to neighbourly India and western countries such as Canada, France, Denmark, the United Kingdom, and Germany. War and the ongoing repression have forced a wave of thousands of refugees migrate,[113] to countries like Canada, the UK and especially Australia. Australia in particular, receives hundreds of refugees every month.
    26. About 69,000 Sri Lankan Tamil refugees live in 112 camps in the southern Indian state of Tamil Nadu.
    27. According to the National Human Rights Commission (NHRC), about 300,000 HinduKashmiri Pandits have been forced to leave the state ofJammu and Kashmir due to Islamic militancy and religious discrimination from the muslim majority, making them refugees in their own country.
    28. Since 1991, much of the country’s non-Muslim population, including Russians and Bukharian Jews, have fled Tajikistan due to Tajikistan Civil War (1992–1997). In 1992, most of the country’s Jewish population was evacuated to Israel. By the end of the civil war Tajikistan was in a state of complete devastation. Around 1.2 million people were refugees inside and outside of the country.
    29. In 1989, after bloody pogroms against the Meskhetian Turks in Central Asia’s Ferghana Valley, nearly 90,000 Meskhetian Turks leftUzbekistan.[120][121]
    30. The 2010 ethnic violence in Kyrgyzstan left some 300,000 people internally displaced. Another 100,000 refugees crossed the border into Uzbekistan.[122

    • tree
      tree
      December 2, 2013, 2:52 am

      Fnlevit,
      Now, besides your Nakba denial and your racism, you are falsifying your links. Your above comment is a direct word for word, number for number quotation from the facebook page of “Israel Fans”, NOT from wikipedia as you claim.

      https://www.facebook.com/israel.fans?hc_location=timeline

      click on “See more” on the post there that starts with “Palestinian refugees dominate anti-Zionist propaganda” and you’ll see the very same numbered quotes listed by Fnlevit above. You’ll also see the “graph” he linked to earlier, and in other parts of the page you’ll the exuberant post about “how well BDS is doing” and probably numerous other Fnlevit ‘contributions” to the comment section here. Our professor is a plagiarist. And a none too bright one at that.

      • annie
        annie
        December 2, 2013, 6:59 am

        tree, (and everyone) i would recommend emailing adam and phil with your observations and concerns.

    • talknic
      talknic
      December 2, 2013, 12:41 pm

      fnlevit ” here is a list of 30 groups of refugees since WW2 most of whom were resettled by their host countries”

      Fantastic and their choice. However, the number of folk who’ve preferred to return and have, is far larger. Also their choice.

      So, did you have a point other than to attempt to denigrate the Arab states who have for 65 years hosted non-Jewish Palestinians illegally dispossessed by the State of Israel?

  27. December 1, 2013, 6:07 pm

    Germans were not allowed the right of return to Kenigsberg (sorry Kaliningrad) or to Karlsbad (sorry Karlovy Vary) or to Marienbad (sorry Mariánské Lázně ). Or to Danzig (sorry Gdansk). Greeks never returned to Turkey although lived there since Troy.
    Same with Greeks from “East Cyprus”. Same with Moslem and Hidus from India/Pakistan. Same with Palestinians expelled from Kuwait. Same with the Vietnamese boat people. Etc. Etc.

    You can find a good graphic explanation for this in
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=646692712055534&set=a.521995184525288.1073741828.521248807933259&type=3&theater

    • tree
      tree
      December 2, 2013, 3:09 am

      Actually, all I find there is a racist “photo-timeline” depicting Palestinians as bloodthirsty Jew-killers. Not a “good graphic explanation” at all. You are a pathetic racist, Fnlevit.

    • Ellen
      Ellen
      December 2, 2013, 12:04 pm

      Prof. fnlevit is now scrapping the sludge of the bottom of the barrel of whataboutry.

      The more he scrapes, the more heinous his arguments to support refusing Palestinians a humanistic right recognized by the modern world becomes — except, that is by horrifically criminal governments. And if they can do it, so can Israel!!

      Right, under Stalin Germans civilians were massacred at the end of the war, and survivors exiled from former Eastern German states. All traces of centuries (over a thousand years) of German culture annihilated. One of many murderous displacement programs under the Great Leader, Stalin.

      The crimes around the breakup of India were horrific, and continue to be so.

      “Etc. Etc.”

      This puts Israel in really great company, even of the likes of the Khemer Rouge, who evacuated millions out of Phnom Penh and into the countryside, with refusal of return.

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