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The world’s sympathy cannot be limited to Israeli victims

Israel/Palestine
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Mohammed Dudeen, foto by Yousef Aljamal on twitter

Mohammed Dudeen, foto by Yousef Aljamal on twitter

The International Association of Jewish Lawyers and Jurists is a UN-recognized pro-Israel advocacy group. It so happened that on June 24, 2014, 12 days after the abduction and murder of Gilad Sha’ar, 16, Naftali Fraenkel, 16, and Eyal Yifrah, 19, and one week before their bodies were discovered, the UN Human Rights Commission was conducting a hearing focusing on human rights in the Occupied Territories.

The UN should not be looking at Israel’s Occupation at a time like this, argued AJLJ.  They provided the following statement:

“Today’s general debate is dedicated to the situation of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories and the Golan Heights.  However, it is impossible to focus on such issues in light of recent events.  The kidnapping of three Israeli teenagers by Palestinian terrorists and the killing of a 13 year old Israeli boy by a guided missile fired by Syrian forces, fired across the border.  Kidnapping and hostage taking, and the targeting of unarmed civilians are all international crimes.  Apart from the legal aspects of these acts, the International Association of Jewish Lawyers and Jurists is disappointed by the inaction and apathy of the international community.”

In an apparent effort to shame the world community away from considering the situation of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, the AJLJ brought to Geneva the three mothers of the teens kidnapped on the West Bank to share their pain.  It was not a friendly forum in Geneva. Rachel Fraenkel, who has become the spokesperson for the mothers, was less confident, less impressive here than in interviews we have seen with her since.  The young lawyer representative of the Association was also ill at ease.  She spoke too fast.  She tripped over her scolding words.  She projected anger at the world community: How dare they question Israel’s human rights record when it’s so clear that Israel is the victim here. The emotion was heartfelt.

There is, however, a gulf of difference between the emotion expressed by Rachel Fraenkel, and the emotion expressed by AJLJ in its role as defense lawyer for Israel’s occupation.  The mothers’ loss is real, deep, universal and deserves our sympathy. Their sons, cruelly cut down, were bright young students, full of life and joy.  It matters not that their Yeshiva is on occupied land.  It matters not that we may disagree with the mothers’ world view. They deserve, and the world needs, that we offer them our immediate and unconditional comfort and love.  But the occupation doesn’t get to ride the coattails of this sympathy.

As Amjad Iraqi points out in his article “Our Problem with Selective Sympathy for Young Victims”, apathy towards “the other” child’s suffering is painful to watch.  It’s painful when we watch Netanyahu objectify Palestinians as “wild beasts;” it’s painful when we observe it in Palestinians; and it should be painful if we catch it within ourselves.

Here’s Amjad Iraqi:

“In the two to three weeks following the abduction of the three Israeli boys, at least eight Palestinians were killed during Israel’s military responses in both Gaza and the West Bank. Among them were 10-year-old Ali al-Awour, 15-year-old Mohammad Dudeen and 22-year-old Mustafa Hosni Aslan. Ali died of wounds from an Israeli missile strike in northern Gaza; Mohammad was killed by a single live bullet in the village of Dura; Mustafa was killed by live bullets in Qalandiya refugee camp during clashes with an Israeli military raid.

I write the names of those three Palestinian boys not to belittle the horrific deaths of the three Israeli boys. I write their names because, while everyone will remember Gilad, Naftali and Eyal, no one will remember Ali, Mohammad or Mustafa. In the coming days, Israeli and international media will be filled with stories of the Israeli boys’ upbringings, the cries of their loved ones, and the fiery promises of political leaders. The same will not be done for the latter; their existence will merely be recorded by a digit in a casualty data collection, nameless and faceless additions to a chart or a graph. Their killers will never be named or brought to trial.

Even if many of the thousands who attended the funeral may not return the favor, and the occupation continues its collective punishment, our sympathy for victims must cut across partisan lines.

The occupation and those who carry it out, by contrast, don’t deserve protection or sympathy any more than the kidnappers themselves.  It’s not  “impossible” to focus on human rights violations “because of recent events” as the ALJC spokeswoman argued.  To the contrary, it’s more important than ever to do so.   And yes, it is perfectly appropriate for AJLJ to bring the mothers of Gilad, Naftali, and Eyal to testify.  It’s part of the story.  But only a small part. UNHRC should likewise bring to Geneva the mothers of Ali, Mohammad, and Mustafa.  Hearing testimony from the victims of Israel’s collective punishment is not unseemly at a time like this.

Targeting of unarmed civilians with guided missiles is an international crime whether it comes from Syrian forces, Hamas, or Israeli soldiers, tanks, and F-16’s.  Killing of unarmed civilians is an international crime whether it is done by Amur Abu Aysha and Marwan Kawasme, or by an IDF sniper. AJLJ has it exactly backwards: by conducting hearings on the situation of human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories, the world community is not engaged in “inaction and apathy:” it’s the only way the world can engage and show its concern.

Roland Nikles
About Roland Nikles

Roland Nikles is a Bay Area writer and attorney. He blogs here: rolandnikles.blogspot.com. And you can follow him on twitter @RolandNikles

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137 Responses

  1. MahaneYehude1
    MahaneYehude1
    July 2, 2014, 9:28 am

    The world’s sympathy cannot be limited to Israeli victims

    I agree, but surfing in the internet you can realize that the world sympathy limited to Palestinian victims although the main victims of this conflict for more than a century are the Zionists (and sometime, Jews because they are Jews). Your web site is only one example, there are many more. It is about the time that you start realize and recognize that we are also victims.

    • Taxi
      Taxi
      July 2, 2014, 10:55 am

      Mahane,

      The general world began to doubt israel as victim in 2006 when it viciously assaulted the unarmed civilian population of Lebanon. The general world then became convinced that israel is not the victim in 2008 when they inhumanely attacked Gaza using White Phosphorous on unarmed civilians, amongst other war atrocities.

      You can convince yourself you’re the victim all you like – it means nothing when all the world sees is civilian blood on your hands.

    • amigo
      amigo
      July 2, 2014, 11:09 am

      Boy, has your English improved since yesterday.

      How do you manage to oscillate from pigeon English to almost perfect in one day.Remarkable.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 11:34 am

        @Amigo:

        I think it is about the time to stop commenting and criticizing my English. I admit, my English is very bad, but I don’t think it is reason to mock me countless of times.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        July 2, 2014, 12:00 pm

        People aren’t commenting on the fact that your English is very bad, but the fact that your English is very bad on some days and very good on others.

      • Ellen
        Ellen
        July 2, 2014, 12:07 pm

        No, your English is very good and you know it.

        Sometimes you pretend it is bad. That adopted role helps to position you as the victim that is simply misunderstood when needed.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 12:21 pm

        @Ellen:

        Thanks for the compliment.

        I think you are wrong. I never pretended. Several members here, in order to undermine my words and discredit me, invented strange things like the oscillations in my English and that there are indeed three different Mahane’s. I don’t remember that I “milked” sympathy in this site when I did minor mistakes in my comments. No matter my English, I always experienced harsh replies.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 2, 2014, 2:49 pm

        “Sometimes you pretend it is bad. That adopted role helps to position you as the victim that is simply misunderstood when needed.”

        The funny part is, if somebody in a conversation with me broke into a phony Jewish accent, I’d probably hit them. I’d consider it anti-Semitic. Ah, but to a Zionist? All in a days work!

      • amigo
        amigo
        July 2, 2014, 12:40 pm

        “I think it is about the time to stop commenting and criticizing my English. I admit, my English is very bad, but I don’t think it is reason to mock me countless of times.” mehane

        Oh yes it is.A fraud should always be mocked.as long as you keep presenting varying degrees of linguistic ability , then you will be mocked.

        You don,t like it, fine then go away.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 1:06 pm

        @amigo:

        You don,t like it, fine then go away.

        I want to go away, but it is you that always call me.

      • Stephen Shenfield
        Stephen Shenfield
        July 2, 2014, 1:50 pm

        MahaneYehude1: Variations in linguistic ability suggest that you may be not an individual but a team consisting of members with different degrees of English proficiency. That raises the question of who organized the team and for what purpose. You could conceal the fact that you are a team (if you are) by assigning one member the task of standardizing the style of all contributions.

      • adele
        adele
        July 2, 2014, 12:42 pm

        I agree with you MY1, inconsistent English is a drop in the ocean compared with your crimes of mendacity. Keep the inconsistent English….but Drop your absurd victimization mantra and the lies you use to defend Israel’s actions against a militarily oppressed and occupied people.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 2, 2014, 2:46 pm

        “I want to go away, but it is you that always call me.”

        Damn it, I realize we need some kind of dialogue, but this kidnapping Zionists, confining them to a basement and forcing them to comment has got to stop!

        Oh, sorry, pace Witty, I meant “dialog”

      • Ellen
        Ellen
        July 2, 2014, 2:50 pm

        Who ever said you “milked” sympathy? Just you.

        No, you fall back onto the feigned lack of language skills , simple innocence of the potato merchant, etc. as your excuse for whatever… It is really pathetic. The lack of honesty does not help your cause.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 5:00 pm

        @Stephen Shenfield:

        You could conceal the fact that you are a team (if you are) by assigning one member the task of standardizing the style of all contributions.

        Thank you very much for you advice. Tomorrow, I will talk to other Mahane’s and I offer them you advice.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 2, 2014, 2:26 pm

        No, the best reason to mock you is because you are a stupid Zionist and the biggest danger to every Jew on earth!
        If, and it’s a big if, Zionism doesn’t kill Judaism completely, every Jew will spend the rest of his or her life cleaning up after and paying for Zionism. Oh, you’ll be more than mocked. I bet you’ll be so scared you’ll find Jesus!

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 7:23 pm

        you really belive that after surviving egypt, babylon, spain, north africa, easterneurope germany and western europe and Israel post ’48 that ‘zionism’ is going to “kill” Judaism? Its kind of silly. At least as silly as:

        “Left-wing hand-wringing Jews imitate prophets Jeremiah and Ezekial predicting destruction of Jews” Well, for what its worth-its all been predicted before. Numerous times. And damn if Jews aren’t still around alive and kicking. {and worrying as much about cleaning up the mess YOU are making as much as you worry you might have to clean anything up from Israel}

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 2, 2014, 8:31 pm

        you really belive that after surviving egypt, babylon, spain, north africa, easterneurope germany and western europe and Israel post ’48 that ‘zionism’ is going to “kill” Judaism? Its kind of silly.

        Not really. It’s killing it by soiling it and destroying it from the inside like a cancer. There are positive signs that Judaism in the diaspora will eventually cut ties with Zionism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 3:31 am

        “I think it is about the time to stop commenting and criticizing my English. I admit, my English is very bad, but I don’t think it is reason to mock me countless of times”

        For God’s sake stop sniveling and whining. Could you at least try and do that? Do you have any idea how ridiculous and…oh, never mind, you live in Israel don’t you? Oh well, a guy’s got to speak his native tongue, I guess.

    • rationalist
      rationalist
      July 2, 2014, 11:15 am

      Really? Because I am maddened by my inability to find only fleeting voices advocating for the Palestinians. I have searched for hours through countless articles and comment sections for some hidden majority of rational people who believe, as I do, that Israel is the aggressor in this conflict and that the Palestinians deserve our sympathy.

      Instead, I am met by voices advocating for things as extreme as Arab genocide, and rarely more compassionate than attributing equal blame to the Israelis and the Palestinians – a distorted view which fails to recognize the real power dynamics in this conflict nor its history.

      The tragic deaths of these teens have been extensively covered by every major news source. I have a clear mental image of the slain Israeli teens and their mothers; I know their names. Even Al Jazeera has extensively covered this story with compassion toward the Israeli victims, repeatedly showing their pictures and giving air time to their mother’s pleas. I have not once seen any footage or images of the Palestinians who have been killed during Israel’s reprisals. Their suffering is only a statistic. They are very rarely presented as humans whose deaths are meaningful and tragic.

    • Donald
      Donald
      July 2, 2014, 11:16 am

      “although the main victims of this conflict for more than a century are the Zionists (and sometime, Jews because they are Jews)”

      This is delusional. Yes, there should be sympathy for innocent victims on all sides. But stop lying about what your side has done.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 11:31 am

        @Donald:

        Yes, there should be sympathy for innocent victims on all sides.

        Thanks.

        But stop lying about what your side has done.

        Could you, please, link to one of my comments confirms that I am “lying about what my side has done”. Thanks in advance.

      • just
        just
        July 2, 2014, 12:11 pm

        How’s this one?

        “In this hard day, I am proud to be Israeli!!!

        Israel did all efforts to find the teens.

        Thank you Israel! Thank you Israel Defense Forces! Thank you citizens of Israel!”

        http://mondoweiss.net/2014/06/israeli-netanyahu-responsible.html#comment-678632

        It’s worse than lying, it’s praising Israel and Israelis with NO distinction as to the good, the bad or the ugly. That is one thing I don’t get about you self- proclaimed, self- righteous, self- important Zionists… I find Americans mostly willing to criticize the actions of bad Americans. Not you guys… not ever.

      • Donald
        Donald
        July 2, 2014, 12:16 pm

        “Could you, please, link to one of my comments confirms that I am “lying about what my side has done”

        It’s the comment right above, where you say

        “although the main victims of this conflict for more than a century are the Zionists ”

        Though perhaps you meant in a spiritual sense–the Zionists ethnically cleansed a people and practiced something worse than apartheid and still see themselves as the chief victims, so in a way the comment validates itself. You have to be really damaged inside to think that way. In the same sense the slaveowner was more damaged by slavery than the slave. But it’s not a point of view you should go around espousing without making clear what you mean.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 12:24 pm

        @Donald:

        It is not a lie. It is truth and I think I wrote enough in this site and explained many times that we are also victims (and the main victims) of this cruel conflict. This is not to say that the Palestinians are not victims. I think you know me well and know my opinions.

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        July 2, 2014, 12:54 pm

        “we are …the main victims… of this cruel conflict. ”

        You’re insane. You stole their land, killed many more of them than they killed of you, continue to held millions of people without rights and you have the gall to claim that you are the “main victims” of this conflict??? You’re out of your mind.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 1:15 pm

        I would take extreme issue with the statement that “the slave owner was more damaged by slavery then the slave”
        I am sorry…i understand what your intent is…the poor stupid slave owner too ignorant to understand how ‘evil’, etc. But in my view that is complete and utter nonsense. Slave owners knew exactly what their property entitled them too and what advantages they had over the powerless slaves. Although i think upwards of 90% of southern rebels were not slave owners and did not feel they were fighting the US Civil War to continue the right to own slaves (something most of them could never afford anyway) I would say that the slave owners certainly DID promote the war to protect their privileged way of life at the expense of legally casting Africans as something other then full humans. There is nothing ‘poor’ about them and while you may think them ‘damaged’ they certainly were not damaged enough to almost turn the tide in ’62 and retain the right to continue along despite the flaws in the nations constitution.
        And while I also understand the urge to draw parallels between the US south circa 1860s and Israel circa 20thC but it is a lazy persons parallel. There are so many distinguishing circumstances I won’t even begin.
        But I assure you your hand-wringing ‘worry’ about the supposed ‘damage’ to the Zionist heart is lost on israelis who know exactly what fate lies in store for them very UNLIKE the southern US slave-owners that fought for glory pride and the right to not be ‘bossed around’ by what an astute southern general at the time said were “those heartless, mechanized and mindless masses of northern intransigence..”
        In fact, ‘damaged’ as you believe i may be, I would submit that I could make a very strong case for drawing parallels to exactly the opposite with the Arab side in Palestine as the south and the Israelis as the north. So-the rule of analogies is they swing both ways.

        As per “sympathies”? I think to those deeply enmeshed in the conflict through land and blood-there is really no case for ‘sympathies’. It is not about ‘sympathies’. If you could get a Hizbolli to speak off record I am sure you would be surprised at how much ‘sympathy’ they have for their IDF counterparts. [….]
        In the end-sympathy doesnt end complex confict. Simple minded solutions don’t either. There is where the US civil war has some significance…in the fact the the 2 sides thought it would be decided in one final decisive and bloody battle but the truth was it took an unprecedented amount of bloodletting (yes-father vs son, brother vs brother, horrible stuff) before the two could decide it was better to conclude the violence as the longer it continued the longer it would take to heal the wounds. I don’t know any pragmatic Palestinians or Jews who believe the wounds of this conflict will heal quickly despite sympathy or anguish. Read about how Abe Lincoln came to understand that only pain would bring about a peace and letting up would only prolong the pain. awful harsh stuff but incredible a man such as he , imperfectly perfect, would emerge from the backwoods of Kentucky to save the USA.

      • Donald
        Donald
        July 2, 2014, 11:11 pm

        “the slave owner was more damaged by slavery then the slave”
        I am sorry…i understand what your intent is…the poor stupid slave owner too ignorant to understand how ‘evil’, etc. But in my view that is complete and utter nonsense. ”

        This is in response to DeBakr, but since there’s no “reply” to click on beneath his post there’s no telling where this response will end up.

        Anyway, I wasn’t interested in pushing the notion that the slave owner was more damaged than the slave. I was trying to think of some way that one could interpret the MY’s claim in a way that would make it true.

        As for Israel vs. the American South in 1860, the American South was worse IMO. But that’s not saying very much in Israel’s favor.

      • iResistDe4iAm
        iResistDe4iAm
        July 3, 2014, 9:17 am

        DaBakr says:
        I would take extreme issue with the statement that “the slave owner was more damaged by slavery then the slave”
        I am sorry…i understand what your intent is…the poor stupid slave owner too ignorant to understand how ‘evil’, etc. But in my view that is complete and utter nonsense.

        Robert E. Lee (future General of the Confederate Army) would no doubt have taken extreme issue with DaBakr’s statement. He’s what Lee actually wrote 158 years ago, in 1856 [my emphasis]…

        In this enlightened age, there are few I believe, but what will acknowledge, that slavery as an institution, is a moral & political evil in any Country. It is useless to expatiate on its disadvantages. I think it however a greater evil to the white man than to the black race, & while my feelings are strongly enlisted in behalf of the latter, my sympathies are more strong for the former. The blacks are immeasurably better off here than in Africa, morally, socially & physically. The painful discipline they are undergoing, is necessary for their instruction as a race, & I hope will prepare & lead them to better things. How long their subjugation may be necessary is known & ordered by a wise Merciful Providence.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_E._Lee#Lee.27s_views_on_slavery

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 3:27 am

        “Could you, please, link to one of my comments confirms that I am “lying about what my side has done”. Thanks in advance.”

        Persecution can be tough, but stupidity like that will kill us. Don’t you even remember what you wrote just a few days ago?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 3:38 am

        “It is not a lie. It is truth and I think I wrote enough in this site and explained many times that we are also victims (and the main victims) of this cruel conflict.”

        Thank you, about time you admitted that Zionism victimizes Jews, even tho Palestinians are Zionism’s main victims. But Jews are the cannon fodder, sacrificial lambs and tethered goats of Zionism.
        I’m glad you are beginning to see that.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        July 2, 2014, 11:33 am

        Just to say to Rationalist that we pro-Palestinians in the West have to get used to the bitter fact that we are still outsiders and misfits according to accepted morality, seriously outnumbered, though things are changing a bit, quite slowly. We have no advantage in the western political game except being right and being the true anti-racists. This is not one tenth or one hundredth of the pile of bitter facts that the Palestinians themselves have to put up with, of course. I seriously thank the good Lord for Mondoweiss.

      • rationalist
        rationalist
        July 2, 2014, 12:10 pm

        The inversion of reality on this issue is confounding and upsetting. I can’t imagine being a Palestinian. To suffer a humanitarian catastrophe for seven decades and have the world’s most advanced countries – supposedly liberal secular democracies – support your colonizers and repeatedly be told that you’re evil for not giving up your country to atone for European atrocities. Meanwhile, those same countries pay lip service to self-determination, secularism, multiculturalism, tolerance and democracy for the rest of the world. The cognitive dissonance alone would be suffocating.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 5:08 am

        “The inversion of reality on this issue is confounding and upsetting. I can’t imagine being a Palestinian. To suffer a humanitarian catastrophe for seven decades”

        Well, see, that’s one advantage of being Jewish. Our own history of humanitarian catastrophe makes us well able to understand and empathize with those who suffer in that way. We know better than anyone that “Never Again” applies to everybody, or it applies to nobody.
        Anyway, it damn well should, but I guess something went wrong.

      • adele
        adele
        July 2, 2014, 12:59 pm

        Oh, my heart breaks for you MY1: “explained many times that we are also victims (and the main victims) of this cruel conflict.”

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 1:25 pm

        hah. my old mother used to get out that same old ‘invisible’ tiny violin to play to us kids for whining about whatever.

      • adele
        adele
        July 3, 2014, 11:30 am

        Apparently you never learned the lesson from your Mother. That old violin is ready for you every time you start going into your unwarranted, delirious self-pity tantrum. And if you stomp your feet no dessert for you MY1.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 2, 2014, 2:42 pm

        “I wrote enough in this site and explained many times that we are also victims”

        Well, then, that subject is disposed of! Mehane says it, it must be true.

        Mehane, if there’s one thing I learned as a Jewish child, and it’s never proven inaccurate all through my Jewish adulthood, it’s that Zionist’s lie to take advantage of Jews. You are our worst enemies.

    • adele
      adele
      July 2, 2014, 11:20 am

      The Zionists are victims of their own brutal, racist and inhumane policies, so spare us MY1 the hypocrisy and the hand-wringing. The Zionists brought the violence with their colonialist project. Stop stealing land, stop killing/bombing Palestinians, stop demolishing homes, stop the occupation and stop the lying.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 5:15 am

        Did you read his little disquisition on slave owners? That was a hoot!

        “But I assure you your hand-wringing ‘worry’ about the supposed ‘damage’ to the Zionist heart is lost on israelis who know exactly what fate lies in store for them very UNLIKE the southern US slave-owners that fought for glory pride and the right to not be ‘bossed around’ by what an astute southern general at the time said were “those heartless, mechanized and mindless masses of northern intransigence..” “

        The poor guy, his brain is so scrambled, he ends up saying the opposite of what he doesn’t want to say. And are you sure you know what “astute” means? I don’t think you do.

    • July 2, 2014, 11:26 am

      Mahane. You must have an inkling that your view of reality is 180 degrees off? The Zionists as victim? The mainstream media coverage favors the Palestinians. Complete and total delusion. NO basis in reality, fact, truth.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 12:29 pm

        @Giles;

        “The mainstream media coverage favors the Palestinians.”

        Just let me remind you that the title of this thread is “The world’s sympathy cannot be limited to Israeli victims”.

        So, the sympathy goes to the Palestinians or to the Israelis? I little confused.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 2, 2014, 2:29 pm

        “So, the sympathy goes to the Palestinians or to the Israelis?”

        Yeah, you bunch of mosers and anti-semites which side are you on? And don’t give me that chazzersplatz about having sympathy for both sides! I mean, c,mon, on one side, real people, and the other, well, Arabs!

      • amigo
        amigo
        July 2, 2014, 6:27 pm

        “So, the sympathy goes to the Palestinians or to the Israelis? I little confused.” mehane 1,2 or 3???.

        I,m going to be nice mehane and assign a 98/2 % breakdown .That,s a pretty generous offer considering Israel is the aggressor and the cause of all this victimization.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        July 2, 2014, 6:49 pm

        You lottle confused.

    • Ellen
      Ellen
      July 2, 2014, 12:09 pm

      It is about the time that you start realize and recognize that we are also victims.

      You like that, don’t you? Being the victim, that is. Mileage.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 3:49 am

        “Being the victim, that is. Mileage.”

        Hey, but don’t forget that Zionist talent for turning on a dime, so well illustrated here by Mahane. When they think they have an advantage, bullying and crowing and threatening.
        When they think things aren’t going their way, it’s right to the sniveling and whining. And not, it would seem, even aware that is what he is doing!!

        And this is supposed to appeal to me, and make me support their “cause”? Actually it makes me deeply ashamed.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 4, 2014, 5:53 am

        When they think they have an advantage, bullying and crowing and threatening.
        When they think things aren’t going their way, it’s right to the sniveling and whining. And not, it would seem, even aware that is what he is doing!!

        These also happen to be a classic traits of both drug addicts and the a abuser in an abusive relationship.

    • libra
      libra
      July 2, 2014, 12:27 pm

      @MY1

      We should not overlook that Mahane is indeed a victim, a victim of Israel’s ruthless Soviet-bloc style education system.

      Apparently the best and brightest Israeli youngsters are fast-tracked into Unit 8200 to learn cyber-warfare then move on to make a fortune in some high-tech start up. Poor Mahane was fast-tracked to a potato stall.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      July 2, 2014, 12:28 pm

      “It is about the time that you start realize and recognize that we are also victims.”

      If you set out to steal a country from the people who are the sole and only rightful owners of the land and genocide or ethnically cleanse them in the process, and you hold that land and oppress those sole and only rightful owners in the process, and those people strike back at you as a consequence, then hell no, you are not “also victims.” Are you out of your mind?

      There maybe victims among the Jews of Israel — individual people who are actively working to break the Jewish hold on power in the Levant, to end the oppression of the Palestinians, to provide full compensation for their losses, to permit their full return to those who wish to, and to replace the diabolical Zionist system with one which provides full equality, political rights, human rights and civil rights to everyone from the Med to the Jordan — who are nevertheless hurt in the struggle.

      But you Zionists, as a group especially, are not “victims,” you are perpetrators. If you are injured or hurt or killed it is because Zionists declared war and you continue to fight it.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 2:03 pm

        @wt
        wow. I am not going to mention how this statement, taken out of context, could apply to what major powers in the world today or past 100yrs?

        “If you set out to steal a country from the people who are the sole and only rightful owners of the land and genocide or ethnically cleanse them in the process, and you hold that land and oppress those sole and only rightful owners in the process, and those people strike back at you as a consequence, then hell no, you are not “also victims.” Are you out of your mind?”

      • Djinn
        Djinn
        July 3, 2014, 3:41 am

        Yes, once upon time the were other European colonies that stole land from indigenous people. Some of them used to have slavery too, would that make it OK for Israel to institute slavery? There’s this thing called progress.

        As a citizen of three countries with colonial pasts, not one of them has immigration policies that allow Christians from anywhere to “return” but deny that return to indigenous people. Not one deploys soldiers to prevent unpeople from walking down certain streets. There are no Christian only housing estates. While the legal systems of all three are heavily stained with racism, not one of them has normalised detention without trial and the torture of children.

      • pjdude
        pjdude
        July 3, 2014, 1:30 pm

        the Israeli law of return is unique among these kinds of laws in that every other country you must show proof you came from said state. Israel you don’t which why i could convert to juadism today and get a palestinians house.

      • pjdude
        pjdude
        July 3, 2014, 1:29 pm

        their is a difference though most former colonial states are trying to attone for the crimes they comitted. Israel is still like nope we had the right to commit these crimes

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 3:54 am

        “Israel you don’t which why i could convert to juadism today and get a palestinians house.”

        Don’t kid yourself. You would have to be the right kind of Jew to get those advantages. Israel grades Jews, and you have to be the right kind of Jew.
        I doubt a new convert would qualify, unless you brought something else to the table.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 5:24 am

        “wow. I am not going to mention how this statement, taken out of context, could apply to what major powers in the world today or past 100yrs?”

        So how many Holacausts do you think we Jews are entitled to inflict, given that others have done it? I mean, it wouldn’t even take a fraction of a Holacaust to get rid of the Palestinians, so what is everybody complaining about, right? Why can’t we be like the Great Powers?
        And the guy who says this is against ‘assimilation’?

        And why does every Zionist we get here say exactly the same thing? DaBakr, do you think the idea that we Jews are entitled to inflict atrocities because it’s our turn now is new here?

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      July 2, 2014, 12:53 pm

      @ MahaneYehudet1
      American leaders all publicly express empathy and sympathy for the Jewish dead. None do so for the Palestinian dead. So that’s not good enough for you?

    • amigo
      amigo
      July 2, 2014, 12:56 pm

      A comparison!!!.

      This is mehane some three weeks ago.

      “You are doing a very ugly and undemocratic act: You link to a video that accuses an Israeli soldier for murder without bringing his side. It seems to me that you learned a lot of new things their in the WB. I am not surprised MW glads to publish your “lyrics”.mehane

      Now lets look at the post above.

      “I agree, but surfing in the internet you can realize that the world sympathy limited to Palestinian victims although the main victims of this conflict for more than a century are the Zionists (and sometime, Jews because they are Jews). Your web site is only one example, there are many more. It is about the time that you start realize and recognize that we are also victims.” mehane today.

      The content is always trollop, as is normal for brainwashed zios.However these two posts cannot possibly have come from the same head for obvious reasons.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 2, 2014, 2:32 pm

        See there it is! That’s the easisest way to tell a person who is out to do the Jews harm! They do incredibly sleazy crap like looking in your archive to see what you said! You know who else used to keep meticulous archives? Huh?

      • amigo
        amigo
        July 2, 2014, 5:51 pm

        Mooser “See there it is! That’s the easisest way to tell a person who is out to do the Jews harm! They do incredibly sleazy crap like looking in your archive to see what you said!”.

        Mooser , are you trying to get me in trouble.That,s not fair.It is three against one.

        I confused,

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:08 am

        Sorry I was being clumsily ironic. I’m clumsy because, well, because I’m clumsy, but also because this (the Ziocaine amnesia and ‘antisemetic archives’) thing was going on years ago here, and it hasn’t changed a bit.

        Not that I can’t see a value in letting these blowhards expose themselves, but the particular qualities of the Zionist discourse, because of my background, just gets right in amongst me a drive me nuts. I can hear them as well as read them, if you know what I mean. It’s not pleasant, and it’s very shaming.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 7:30 pm

        while i agree with most of what YM writes I do feel like its odd that his written accent changes often in tone and style. I don’t appreciate it because I enjoy my right to continue to ridicule those that claim i am some kind of ‘professional hasbarist’ . that accent change-up makes my case harder.
        btw-i think it was noted-but it takes a LOT of effort to maintain an accent when writing in a supposedly foreign tongue. I am fluent in German and English and never write in english with a ‘hebrew’ or ‘german’ accent.-unless I really thought about it. its too much schtick. weird.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 3, 2014, 12:33 am

        DaBakr:

        while i agree with most of what YM writes I do feel like its odd that his written accent changes often in tone and style.

        Thanks for the first part of your sentence. About the second part, it is very simple to understand: when I read my comment carefully before publishing, I edit it and make sure no much mistakes included. But, when I write “from my stomach” (like this comment), you see my real English with all the mistakes. That it, very simple to understand.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:11 am

        ” its too much schtick. weird.”

        Wow, and then they just turn right on each other if they think they can gain the slightest advantage from it. What a crew.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 2, 2014, 2:56 pm

      “I agree, but surfing in the internet you can realize that the world sympathy limited to Palestinian victims…”

      Oh well, I guess a lot of the world is on to you, you…. Oh wait, I promised myself I wouldn’t curse at Zionists or call them “bastards”, and I intend to keep it.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 2, 2014, 4:58 pm

        @Mooser:

        I can’t understand why you replied to me several times. By doing so, you switch the thread from its original subject to Mahane’s subject.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:13 am

        “But, when I write “from my stomach” (like this comment)”

        Can’t you projectile vomit somewhere else?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 4, 2014, 5:33 am

        Can’t you projectile vomit somewhere else?

        It must makes these Zios head spin when they get bit$h slapped by someone they assumed is one of their own.

        No disrespect to Mooser.

    • annie
      annie
      July 2, 2014, 5:11 pm

      the main victims of this conflict for more than a century are the Zionists

      i’m so sick of listening to you.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 3, 2014, 12:28 am

        @Annie:

        i’m so sick of listening to you.

        First of all I don’t want you to be sick – Sein gezunt!!

        Look, if I link to a video shows who is the real victim, you all would say “Zionist Hasbara…”, so I can’t link to videos. But, what about a video about the Nakba made by Aljazeera? I sure you won’t say it is Hasbara. So, please, watch this video again and see who is the main victim of our conflict. (There are several parts and I ask you to start from the first part to see the whole picture). Thanks.

      • pjdude
        pjdude
        July 3, 2014, 1:33 pm

        Your not a victim. your an entitled self absorbed twit who thinks having to suffer the consequences of your actions makes you a “real”victim or more of a victim than the people you tried to kill. I suppose the nazis were the “real” victims of the shoah?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 3, 2014, 8:34 pm

        Look, if I link to a video shows who is the real victim, you all would say “Zionist Hasbara…”, so I can’t link to videos.

        If you linked to a video showing the real victim, it would confirm the real victims are Palestinians.

    • Shingo
      Shingo
      July 2, 2014, 6:29 pm

      . It is about the time that you start realize and recognize that we are also victims.

      I am inclined to agree. Both Jews and Palestinians are victims of Zionism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:17 am

        “Both Jews and Palestinians are victims of Zionism.”

        Hostage has told us quite a bit about how the Zionists victimized Jews from the very start of the project.

    • piotr
      piotr
      July 3, 2014, 11:51 am

      Quick results of “web surfing”:

      Israeli victims – 19 million hits

      Palestinian victims – 15.5 million hits

      “Negative control”: Israeli girls – 32 million hits, Palestinian girls – 24 million

      “Double negative control”: Polish girls – 50 million, Polish victims – 8 million.

      Thus Poland has a girl/victim ratio about 6, while Israel and Palestine around 1.5

      Even for Syria we get 40/8 = 5 ratio.

    • pjdude
      pjdude
      July 3, 2014, 1:22 pm

      guess you can stack bs that high. really zionists are the main victims? the people who chose to launch a war of conquest are the victims? you my friend are a piece of work

    • Daniel Rich
      Daniel Rich
      July 3, 2014, 10:18 pm

      This just in: “Germany demands reparations for being kicked out of the Ukrainian hinterland.”

      I dread to ask, but was MahaneYehudeO a prototype?

  2. Kay24
    Kay24
    July 2, 2014, 10:21 am

    Sympathy and compassion should not be forced out of the world, it should be a natural reaction to murders, kidnappings, over excessive violence, and collective punishment against all, instead of finding the killers and bringing them to justice in a civilized way. The world is wary, and sick of Israel’s devious ways. It knows it’s brutality, and most international and humanitarian agencies, have recorded facts, data, and even video, of Israel’s brutal troops committing war crimes. All the oye veys, and woe is us, whining cannot erase that. Israel is known to provoke, use deadly weapons, and when they get rockets in response, they are notorious for acting the victims, while showing convenient amnesia for their crimes.
    These unfortunate kidnappings are a perfect example. Do they admit, or talk about the Nakba killings, when 2 unarmed kids were brutally gunned down by IDF thugs? No.
    But oy vey, how they go on about their loss. If Israel is expecting sympathy, and disappointed by the lack of it by the rest of the world (not Obama, his administration, David Cameron, and the other “Israel does no wrong” crowd” of course) it should take that as a strong message.
    Despite being able to control the narrative, and make the Palestinians always look like the aggressors, the world sees through Israel’s devious games, and is sick of it.

    It is almost comical that Israel has to twist arms to elicit any sympathy!

    Here is a cartoon in the Guardian UK by Steve Bell, showing exactly how the world now sees Israel, and it’s attitude towards Palestinian deaths versus Israeli deaths.:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/jul/02/israel-three-teenagers-found-dead

    • just
      just
      July 2, 2014, 10:27 am

      Bell’s cartoon is perfect. It elicited a grimace from me this morning– no chuckle.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        July 2, 2014, 10:31 am

        I think he nailed it too. I wish it would have been from another angle. It would have made a better impact. Still, the message is so obvious.

  3. Donald
    Donald
    July 2, 2014, 11:26 am

    I just want to say that this piece and the one by Amjad Iraqi are exactly on target. In a way, I don’t want to overpraise them, because it’s just common decency. But one never reads anything this sensible in the US press, because common decency is several standard deviations to the right of what’s normal there.

  4. DaBakr
    DaBakr
    July 2, 2014, 11:58 am

    People at MW, asst. anti-Zionists and so on are the ones that have been screeching about Israel ‘trumping up’ circumstances and supposedly ‘aggravating the ‘situation’ by living in the WB in the first place and now-that the 3 boys turned up dead-its the same folks who are screaming about “not treating this as a special case”.
    What folks here are saying is that these three kids, by virtue of living where they live and by virtue of the fact they are Jewish incited Palestinian rage and indifference becuase after all:
    its morally equivalent that other Palestinian teens choose to ‘resist’ the occupation by slinging shot, stones boulders and grenades at Israeli soldiers (many nt much older then them) and draw fire with rubber bullets tear gas and supposedly ‘live fire’ which is not by any means conclusive yet until there is a report from ballistic forensics on how a rubber bullet penetrated so deeply and/or a live bullet survived multiple impact unscathed in the bottom of backpack. Also-while many here claim that is some kind of national ‘sport’ for IDF to kill Palestinians no motive can be established other then circumstantial for why any IDF would disobey and/or even worse scheme to shoot some kid who was not affiliated in any special way and was basically an ordinary kid.
    So-while the IDK will continue to investigate the 2 deaths a few weeks back and will mete out punishment if/when a perp is found I really don;t expect even the collaborationist PA to help the IDF bring the kidnap/murderers to any type of trial. While many here think Israel will simply hunt these guys down and kill them here is the scenario I predict:

    They are likely well hidden by their family/clan and will either be smuggled out which would open the door to the Mossad. Or, more likely one (or both) will cut a deal (meaning- Their family will demand huge -secret- payout from PA along with more visible stipends and such in exchange for the guys turnng themselves in and serving time in israeli jail with guarantees they move to front of line in prisoner exchange negotiations . So-what they couldn’t pull off with the actual crime they will get a 2nd chance to be exchanged for a future Israeli hostage. Either way-they come out as highly regarded by Palestinian society and as much as folks like to lie-Israeli prison is not as horrendous as all that. There is sat TV, college, prayer, sports and vo-tech. Plus-Israeli prisons are highly scrutinized by the vaunted Red Cross. Its only dumb gullible and naive American/Euro activists that believe Israeli prisons are like the ‘black hole’ off-grid CIA cells used for their fight with AQ.

    • Woody Tanaka
      Woody Tanaka
      July 2, 2014, 12:17 pm

      Your post demonstrates the issue: you assume the absolute best about Jews (even if they’re lies) and the worst of the Arabs (even if you have to lie to do it) and your complaint is, essentially, that those you hate here on MW, refuse to assume the best of the Jews and the worst of the Arabs.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 2:12 pm

        no. I take no issue with the Palestinian clan that holds power over their lands around Hebron. If Hamas hadn;t set the price for a kidnapped IDF so high the guys that botched this kidnapping wouldn’t have been tempted to kidnap in the first place. The large clans/families operate like any other normal societal group. They are not particularly ideological or brutal and they are rational. This was a botched attempt after all. The family stood to gain if it succeeded. i doubt they are surprised at IDF reaction. And I do not put ‘Jewish’ behavior above Arabs. Does the retribution Israel just paid the Hebron area seem like Israle is morally superior?

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 2:39 pm

        oh. sorry. I misread your point. you are correct. I am angry you (@MW) refuse to assume the best of Israelis. I actually have no problem with you assuming the best of Palestinians. I have little tolerance for anybody-be they Zionist, Jew, Christian, etc who believes that Palestinians operate on a level any different then any other folks. Including their ‘terrorist/militant’ fighters who-however wrong I think thay are-are still operating from a rational (bad rationale but rational) model of their situation. Cultural differences apply-but human nature remains basically unchanged since 50,000yrs

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:20 am

        “I have little tolerance for anybody-be they Zionist, Jew, Christian, etc who believes that Palestinians operate on a level any different then any other folks”

        Go tell it to Netanyahoo.

      • annie
        annie
        July 2, 2014, 6:07 pm

        . If Hamas hadn;t set the price for a kidnapped IDF so high the guys that botched this kidnapping wouldn’t have been tempted to kidnap in the first place.

        nah, all this hamas this hamas that. this was no kidnap for ransom, that’s all iof/netanyahu balony. it’s much more likely this was retribution for the nakba day cold blooded murders, a vendetta. if anything about what we’ve been told about the killing is true.

        your narrative is escapist, trying to justify lassoing hamas culpability where there is none.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 8:50 pm

        i don;t mean “kidnap for ransom” I mean, specifically: Hamas puts out propaganda advocating for the kidnapping of IDF. They have an online ‘handbook’ with many tips. They are not so stupid as to provide europe/us with tangible proof with line of command. Even you, Annie, hold netanyahu responsible for ‘incitement’. Also-why shouldn’t Hamas advocate for kidnapping? Look what it brought them with Shalit? Was that their fault? Nobodt told Israel theyHAD to be ‘heroic’ stoic and morally different by going to extremes to have less important soldiers returned. Extremes which may have had something to do with the kidnapping. But that was the ‘game’ and Hamas is playing by Israeli rules.

        The benefit to the Q’wam’seh tribe would have been both financial but also socially prestigious as it would eventually leak who did what in conjunction with Hamas. And please don’t fool yourself into believing that had the kidnapping NOT gone awry, that Hamas would have taken receivership of the 3 boys and then started to negotiate. Why should they take any responsibility now when there is nothing to gain?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 2, 2014, 9:34 pm

        Hamas puts out propaganda advocating for the kidnapping of IDF.

        As is their right. The IDF are an illegal hostile occupying force and their arrest is perfectly legitimate. Their mere presence is a crime.

        Even you, Annie, hold netanyahu responsible for ‘incitement’

        Israel is militarily and illegally occupying Palestinian territory. Netenyahu is not merely inciting, he is carrying out a non stop act of violence against the Palestinians.

        The benefit to the Q’wam’seh tribe would have been both financial but also socially prestigious as it would eventually leak who did what in conjunction with Hamas.

        In the absence of evidence, that is little more than a conspiracy theory.

        And please don’t fool yourself into believing that had the kidnapping NOT gone awry

        Please provide evidence that it had, otherwise, please don’t waste our time with conspiracy theories.

        There is ZERO evidence that Hamas would have taken receivership of the 3 boys and then started to negotiate.

      • Pat Nguyen
        Pat Nguyen
        July 2, 2014, 11:50 pm

        Nope. If it was retribution, the kids would not have been forced into the car and then shot in the back seat

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 3, 2014, 5:52 pm

        If it was retribution, the kids would not have been forced into the car and then shot in the back seat

        Pure fiction. You have not one shred of evidence as to what happened. You are making it up, and most likely 100% wrong – as usual

    • Cliff
      Cliff
      July 2, 2014, 12:41 pm

      tldr

    • amigo
      amigo
      July 2, 2014, 1:39 pm

      “Also-while many here claim that is some kind of national ‘sport’ for IDF to kill Palestinians no motive can be established other then circumstantial for why any IDF would disobey and/or even worse scheme to shoot some kid who was not affiliated in any special way and was basically an ordinary kid.”dabakr

      Suggest you look up Breaking the silence web site.”

      Here , let me do the groundwork for you.Pay attention to the “Cheer up guys” that,s how it is story.

      http://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/1615

      I envy you.You have much to learn.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 2, 2014, 2:33 pm

      Hey DaBakr, you want to show me where Mondoweiss says it is “Anti-Zionist”? There’s an “about” page you can check.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 8:53 pm

        mooser. i may not have been here as long as you. i may not be well liked here. but i can tell you with 99% accuracy that in general and in specific MW is anti-Zionist and in favour of the destruction of the Zionist model of Israel. If you can’t figure that much out-how on earth could a simple Zionist help you?

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 2, 2014, 9:27 pm

        but i can tell you with 99% accuracy that in general and in specific MW is anti-Zionist and in favour of the destruction of the Zionist model of Israel.

        Why do you propagandists insist on using the word “destruction”? Is it because you are concerned that concepts that do not evoke images of bombs and carnage might sound too reasonable?

        Would you have said that the USSR or Apartheid South Africa underwent a destruction?

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 10:00 pm

        why? because I read very carefully what is written here and it only makes you look foolish when you try and pick apart such a basic and simple statement of truth. MW is anti-Zionist and advocates for the destruction (or the end of-if that makes you feel more cuddly) the Zionist project that is Israel. Now repeat. Its not hard.
        And your attempt above to again pick apart a basically given assumption-that even Palestinian journalists (one professor I listened to on NPR was a Gazan from the University there mentioned the two Qaw’mseh guys and didn’t deny they were involved-he just emphaszed that there could be no collective guilt for tribe or families for acts of two guys. Pretty tame and predictable stuff-but still-nobody is denying what your calling “pure conspiracy” [which is rich-considering all the theories emanating from MW on the day the 3 teens were kidnapped. Whoo-wee is the ‘conspiracy’ accusation rich. if you don’t believe Hamas would have received the 3 boys hasd they not been killed who on earth do you think would have used them to gain the release of another 1000 Palestinian prisoners? JVP? Take a reality pill. I am not writing posts that deal in fantasies. I am specifically being very real with MW posters here. Very little of what I wrote today is all that controversial.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 3, 2014, 2:33 am

        because I read very carefully what is written here and it only makes you look foolish when you try and pick apart such a basic and simple statement of truth.

        There is nothing truthful about your hyperbole and hysteria. You hasbarats deliberately pull out the “destruction” card because it conjures up images of the Holocaust. The term destruction implies wanton destruction , demolition; annihilation, murder etc.

        And if you even suggest that one person on this forum has called for such measures against Israel, you are a liar.

        Zionism is nothing more that a racist supremacist policy that feeds o f injustice. Apart from the fact it is morally reprehensible, the simple fact is that such regimes are unsustainable. Zionism will run out of steam one day, more than likely it will be with a whimper – not destruction of any kind.

        one professor I listened to on NPR was a Gazan from the University there mentioned the two Qaw’mseh guys and didn’t deny they were involved

        Not denying it doesn’t mean he accepts it either. He’s clearly in no position to know one way or the other.

        Pretty tame and predictable stuff-but still-nobody is denying what your calling “pure conspiracy”

        Of course they are. Hamas are. You’d have no problem accepting Israeli denials of their crimes.

        if you don’t believe Hamas would have received the 3 boys hasd they not been killed who on earth do you think would have used them to gain the release of another 1000 Palestinian prisoners?

        What evidence do you have they were captured for a prisoner exchange? ZERO.

      • Djinn
        Djinn
        July 3, 2014, 3:50 am

        DaBakr says:

        one professor I listened to on NPR was a Gazan from the University there mentioned the two Qaw’mseh guys and didn’t deny they were involved

        I’m not denying you beat your children.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 5:00 am

        And notice, he’s not brave enough to say ‘destruction of Israel’ instead he says “in favour of the destruction of the Zionist model of Israel.

        What a weasel.

        Speaking of “not denying” I am very concerned that Israel has not denied that the three teens were involved in a love-triangle which devolved into a murder-suicide.
        I sure wish they would deny that, cause I’d hate to think that’s what happened, even tho I hear it was.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:27 am

        ” i can tell you with 99% accuracy that in general and in specific MW is anti-Zionist and in favour of the destruction of the Zionist model of Israel.”

        Really? Where does it say that on the “about” page? If you want to say that Phil Wiess is a liar, who is deliberately lying about the nature of his website (along with all the Mondoweiss writers and staff, please be brave enough to say so.

        I ask you again, where on Mondoweiss does it state the site is “anti-Zionist and in favour of the destruction of the Zionist model of Israel”?

        Or is this website fundementally dishonest, and concealing its true nature? Please, get the goddam mush out of your mouth and say what you mean, if you can.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:31 am

        BTW, here is the relevant part of the “about” page:

        “It (Mondoweiss) has four principal aims:

        1. To publish important developments touching on Israel/Palestine, the American Jewish community and the shifting debate over US foreign policy in a timely fashion.
        2. To publish a diversity of voices to promote dialogue on these important issues.
        3. To foster the movement for greater fairness and justice for Palestinians in American foreign policy.
        4. To offer alternatives to pro-Zionist ideology as a basis for American Jewish identity.”

        DaBakr, how does that make the site “anti-Zionist”? Or is this website published under false pretenses?
        Seems simple enough to answer.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:37 am

        ” i may not have been here as long as you. i may not be well liked here. “

        Can you possibly, just as a favor to me, so I don’t have to be completely ashamed of you, stop whining?
        Or is that how you Zionists talk to each other? You even shoot-and-cry among yourselves? What a freakin’ crew.

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 4, 2014, 5:25 am

        You even shoot-and-cry among yourselves? What a freakin’ crew.

        That’s absolutely priceless Mooser. A perfect example of why we’re all so glad to see you back here.

        Thanks for bringing such humor back to this forum.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 2, 2014, 2:38 pm

      “They are likely well hidden by their family/clan”

      Yeah “elizabethbrown” will tell you all about those bad Palestinian clans and families!
      The nerve of the Palestinians, having families, and worse, clans
      Obviously, Palestinians like the KKK, or why would they call them “clans”

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 8:58 pm

        if your commenting to me about elzbrwn-I already commented that the post smelled of a copy/paste job. however-it doesnt mean what was said about qua’m’seh tribe is incorrect. and nobody I know holds anything against them. they have been in that heron area the longest of the tribes and therefore control much that is impossible for IDF to control-including info. And Palestinians themselves call them “clans” or “tribes” What? Your going to tell me now that a ‘tribe’ isn’t politically correct? Tell the tribal leader, see what he says. And isn’t one of the ‘big’ criticisms of Zionists is that they are ‘tribal’. I don’t mind tribal at all. Not perjarative in my book

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 2, 2014, 9:25 pm

        they have been in that heron area the longest of the tribes and therefore control much that is impossible for IDF to control-including info.

        That’s simply rubbish. There is no inch of the Hebron area that the IDF do not or cannot control.

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr
        July 2, 2014, 10:07 pm

        and that proves to me you know nothing about the Hebron hills. Of course the IDF holds ultimate authority and can force tribal memberts to ‘submit’ But this particualr clan is know for having little or no collaboration (i’d say ‘little’ makes more sense) And without ‘collaboration’ the IDF is compleltely stymied in many areas. So it is certainly not rubbish and there is a healthy amount of respect and wariness for both sides to each other. If the IDF wants to ‘f’ one of the important tribal families over-they for sure will pay down the line. You should really gain a better understanding of how things work in parts of the WB. Your really fooling yourself if you think th4 IDF has complete control. They have force but that does’nt always mean everything. Its silly to even argue about it. There are entire curriculims based on tribal clans in this region. And they are not just in Israeli universities either. Many Arabs study the social structure, historical ties and so on. Tribes are not relegated to the ;’dustbin’ of history as much as socially progressive east/west coast anglos and euros tend to think they should be

      • Shingo
        Shingo
        July 3, 2014, 2:12 am

        and that proves to me you know nothing about the Hebron hills.

        You have demonstrated you know nothing either. Nothing you presented supports your claim that the clan rules any area that the IDF do not maintain complete dominance. They don’t need any collaboration to do it either. The IDF has no respect for any Palestinians and crushes their skulls daily in order to remind them of that fact.

        So yes, what you are suggesting is utter rubbish.

        If the IDF wants to ‘f’ one of the important tribal families over-they for sure will pay down the line.

        Oh really. How exactly? The price paid by the clan will always been far higher, so there is no way they can win at that game.

        Your really fooling yourself if you think th4 IDF has complete control.

        You are a fool if you nbelieve otherwise. The only interest the IDF has in collaboration is in order to make their job easier and cheaper to carry out.

        There are entire curriculims based on tribal clans in this region.

        So what? No one is denying the clans exist, what you are failing miserably to prove is that they wield any power in the face of the occupation.

      • Djinn
        Djinn
        July 2, 2014, 9:33 pm

        DaBakr, I’m asking again because you apparently missed it the first time.

        If this family is so notorious that you expect anyone interested in I/P to be familiar with them, why do you spell their names five different ways (that can not be explained by different translations from Arabic or typos) in a short post?

        If I spelt Netanyahu five different ways would it make you suspect I wasn’t as informed as I claimed to be?

      • a blah chick
        a blah chick
        July 2, 2014, 9:00 pm

        Arabs have “clans” or “tribes” whereas Jews have “families.”

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        July 2, 2014, 9:58 pm

        Of course, easier to make them “the other” when you do it that way.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:41 am

        “Arabs have “clans” or “tribes” whereas Jews have “families.”

        Yup, hit that one right on the nose, Ms. Chick! And hating Jews is anti-Semitism, but “hating Arabs is values”

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        July 4, 2014, 6:29 am

        “Arabs have “clans” or “tribes” whereas Jews have “families.””

        That’s one of the differences between old indigenes and modern indigenes.

  5. rationalist
    rationalist
    July 2, 2014, 12:26 pm

    This is somewhat random, and perhaps I’m being too sensitive:

    Does anyone else find it biasing when reporters and commentators insist on using exaggerated pronunciations when saying Arab names for people and organizations. Andrea Mitchell goes so far as to say Abu Mazen instead of Mahmoud Abbas. Others reach into guttural vocal depths or tongue-flicking linguistic acrobatics to pronounce something as simple as ‘Fatah.’ They also rarely use English translations for the names of Arab organizations.

    I suppose this is technically correct, but I rarely see the same journalist doing this with Israeli names or organizations. No one refers to the IDF as ‘Tzva Hahagana LeYisra’el.’ Most say Benjamin – not Binyamin – Netanyahu. Many use the even more informal ‘BiBi.’

    Intentional or not, it makes Israeli culture seem more Western and familiar, and presents the Palestinians as the other.

    • just
      just
      July 2, 2014, 12:56 pm

      I’ve noticed the very same thing for a long time now, rationalist.

      • rationalist
        rationalist
        July 2, 2014, 1:42 pm

        Glad it’s not just me.

    • Stephen Shenfield
      Stephen Shenfield
      July 2, 2014, 2:00 pm

      Unless they are proficient in Arabic — and I’m sure most reporters and commentators are not — it’s very unlikely that their pronunciation is “technically correct.” So it’s probably just a way of making Arabs seem alien and dangerous. Anti-Semites used to do the same thing with Yiddish-influenced Jewish speech.

    • Ron Edwards
      Ron Edwards
      July 2, 2014, 3:08 pm

      I noticed the same thing when the Maronite Catholic elite of Lebanon were our “Christian friends” back in the 80s. Gemayel, never al-Jimayyel or al-Jumayyil. GeaGea, never JaJa or Yahyah.

    • MahaneYehude1
      MahaneYehude1
      July 2, 2014, 5:24 pm

      @rationalist:

      Andrea Mitchell goes so far as to say Abu Mazen instead of Mahmoud Abbas

      It is acceptable to call an Arab man Abu-…(his older son name) and in several Arab societies it is also an honor. To a woman, it is Umm-…(her oldest son name). In some cases, after Abu-… it is acceptable to put feature that characterizes the person (for instance, Abu-Antar – a brave man). There are also examples of a name Abu-… as a nickname like Abu-Amar for Arafat.

      About Fatah: although you can translate the abbreviation “Fatah” (حركة تحرير فلسطين) to English “Palestinian Liberation Movement”, the word Fatah has also a meaning in Arabic as “Great Victory”, so usually this word is not translated . In contrary, the Hebrew abbreviation of IDF (Zahal) has no meaning in Hebrew hence reporters use to translate it to English.

      • rationalist
        rationalist
        July 2, 2014, 6:30 pm

        Again, I don’t doubt that the pronunciation and verbiage is generally accurate, and I’m sure most are just trying to be respectful. However, the effect is that it portrays Arab culture as the other.

        That said, I don’t see a reason to not translate Fatah. No English listener will know that Fatah is an acronym which spells some other Arab word. You’re not preserving any information for the English audience.

      • amigo
        amigo
        July 2, 2014, 6:50 pm

        mehane , full marks for perfect English,

        Is it shift change at the “spuddery”.

      • eljay
        eljay
        July 3, 2014, 8:15 am

        >> mehane , full marks for perfect English

        The fluctuations in his proficiency with English are quite amazing.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 4, 2014, 4:43 am

        “The fluctuations in his proficiency with English are quite amazing.”

        He’s a bilingual whiner and sniveler, tho.

      • Daniel Rich
        Daniel Rich
        July 3, 2014, 11:59 pm

        @ MahaneYehude1,

        I know this guy, Abu Ghraib – Man who electrocutes your testicles at Night…

  6. just
    just
    July 2, 2014, 12:44 pm

    “WASHINGTON (AFP) — The United States on Wednesday condemned the killing of a Palestinian youth in an apparent revenge attack for the killing of three Israeli teenagers, warning acts of vengeance would worsen an explosive situation.

    “There are no words to convey adequately our condolences to the Palestinian people,” Secretary of State John Kerry said in a statement.”

    http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=709569

    How about calling out the terrorists who instigated the collective punishment? How about naming the insane Israeli government?

    • Citizen
      Citizen
      July 2, 2014, 12:56 pm

      Won’t happen; Kerry likes his career. He’s just another old guy who likes his life of comfort and seeks to increase it for the days he has left.

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      July 2, 2014, 1:07 pm

      Here are some of the reactions calling for Palestinian blood for the death of those 3 unfortunate kids:
      Haaretz headlines:

      “Israelis launch Facebook campaign calling for ‘revenge’ of teens’ murders”

      It gets uglier:
      “World Bnei Akiva chief calls for price of ‘blood’ for Israeli teens’ murder
      Rabbi Noam Perel, secretary-general of world youth movement since 2012, urges government to turn IDF into an army of avengers, ‘which will not stop at 300 Philistine foreskins.”

      That was awful.

      And spreading to other nations perhaps:
      “Are Jewish gangs in Rome taking revenge for teens’ murder?
      At least eight people required hospitalization after being attacked by Jews or Israel supporters in two incidents related to the murdered West Bank teens.”

      I wonder if they realize Palestinians have the right to act just as ugly after the Nakba anniversary deaths.

      Now we watch with interest, if Nutty Benjy will call those who perpetrated this terrible crime, Human Animals, too. Any bets?

  7. Mooser
    Mooser
    July 2, 2014, 2:35 pm

    Oh, Vey we got so famisched about those three Israeli teenagers, we built a whole new settlement block, in fact, several, before we calmed down!’
    It was just a spontaneous reaction!

  8. just
    just
    July 2, 2014, 3:19 pm

    If you can stomach some more dreck, here:

    “Obama turned Israeli settlements into a deal breaker
    Israeli announcements regarding settlement construction were not the reason the peace talks failed; the European and U.S. reactions to those announcements were a much more decisive factor.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-peace-conference/1.601479

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      July 2, 2014, 4:11 pm

      I just read that. It seems they are now dumping it on Obama. A feeble effort.
      If they made a statement that they will NOT be building settlements at that time,
      the peace talks might have gone somewhere. What’s with Israel and not being able to stick to the truth?

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        July 2, 2014, 6:20 pm

        Always the victim. Never responsible. Reminds me of flip wilson flitting about the stage saying the devil made him do it.

      • Kay24
        Kay24
        July 3, 2014, 7:52 am

        It must have backfired when their own human animals kidnapped and tortured a young kid, Mohammed Hassan Abu Khdeir, caught on video tape and easy to prove, and their victimization drama had to be halted. But, knowing how they operate, soon they will seize on yet another reason, to whine and pound their chests again.

      • piotr
        piotr
        July 3, 2014, 12:11 pm

        I do not know where do you live, but if it is not a war zone, I do not see anything to justify inflammatory language like “human animals”. It reminds me listening to a radio station while driving in NY/NJ area when someone in the talk show ranted why the state penitentiaries keep “the animals” in such ridiculously good conditions.

        That said, I visited Israel once, and based on unrepresentative anecdote I got impression that “common Israelis” trust their authorities to an unusual degree. It was a bit of a culture shock to me. If my unrepresentative observations are true (and they are corroborated by observations of comments on Israeli sites), people are unusually responsive to politicians’ ranting. The world has more than enough of murders, but I am not sure where to find ruling politicians as irresponsible as in Israel. And then there is clergy…

        And they also rant about incitement. But back to you, Kay24, please do not sound like a member of a bloodthirsty mob.

      • adele
        adele
        July 3, 2014, 10:23 pm

        Piotr –
        (comment button missing under your comment)

        in all fairness to Kay she was only using the same exact language that Netanyahu used in his tweets regarding the 3 Israeli teens who were found killed. Refer to tweet below that was mentioned in this mondoweiss article (http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/repeated-vengeance-netanyahu.html)

        So if you want to rebuke anyone, you should send Netanyahu (the Israeli leader who is inciting violence) a note via his twitter account.

        PM of Israel @IsraeliPM
        They were abducted & murdered in cold blood by human animals. On behalf of the entire Jewish People, I would like to tell the dear families-
        3:57 PM – 30 Jun 2014

      • annie
        annie
        July 4, 2014, 2:27 pm

        a assumed she was mimicing him too

  9. Mooser
    Mooser
    July 4, 2014, 4:51 am

    “And then there is clergy…”

    Yup, the involvement of Rabbis in politics, the military, and the various crimes and atrocities they laud and/or excuse, will really redound to the glory of the Jewish religion! And won’t it give prophetic gravitas to everything they say! And how it will increase trust between Jews, and Jews and others! It will cause people to look at Jewish religious institutions as incorruptible sanctuaries, concerned only with spiritual values!

    Anyway, how can we criticize Kay24 for simply quoting Netanyahoo? She simply forgot the quote marks, hardly an unpardonable sin.

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