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Liberal Zionists’ denial of Israeli racism heightens danger to ‘everyone living in this land’ — Blumenthal

Israel/Palestine
on 91 Comments

In the last few days, as events in Israel and Palestine have turned so grim and full of suffering, the ideological battle between liberal Zionists and anti-Zionists has sharpened. For instance, MJ Rosenberg tweeted that this website is just rich Jews who don’t face any threat to their lives, as Israelis do; Bradley Burston published a column in Haaretz accusing this site of “kidnap denial” because of a comment in our comment section; and that column was affirmed by Jeffrey Goldberg, Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo and Ruth Marks Eglash of the Washington Post. These attacks also include Peter Beinart writing a column about the American Jewish debate over Israel that simply denies the existence of Jewish Voice for Peace— covering his eyes to will away non- and anti-Zionist Jews.

Well, back at you! Here’s an interview I did with Max Blumenthal in West Jerusalem last September near where he made the video “Feeling the Hate in Jerusalem.” I asked him about criticisms that he had distorted the character of Israeli society in that video, and Blumenthal said the opposite was the case: he had captured a rising strain in that society. He said that racism is rampant inside Israeli discourse and that the lynching of a Palestinian near where we stood was straight out of Alabama in the 1940s. But conditions of naked apartheid are denied by a “coterie of liberal Zionists” in the United States because their Jewish identity is predicated on the existence of a “dreamcastle Israel” and so they forever maintain the belief that the “good Israel” will somehow come to the fore. When that battle has been lost.

Blumenthal then says that the liberal Zionists’ denial of the Palestinian experience heightens the danger of violence to everyone in Israel/Palestine because it allows those conditions to thrive to the point that out-and-out racists have become ministers in the Israeli government. Blumenthal is abusive of the liberal Zionist writers, saying they should all go on a cruise and never come back.

Blumenthal expressed these views 10 months ago, but they obviously apply to events in Israel today when murderous racism is being openly encouraged, as Jewish Voice for Peace noted in distributing the image below in urging Americans to recognize that the occupation is at the root of the conflict. And again I’d point to Peter Beinart’s column saying, “U.S. Jews must save their people’s honor, which Israel is putting at stake,” in which he says not a word about such attitudes, or about the pogroms taking place right this minute on the West Bank.

 

“To hate Arabs isn’t racism, it’s having values. #IsraelDemandsRevenge.” Posted to an Israeli Facebook page in the last 24 hours.

“To hate Arabs isn’t racism, it’s having values. #IsraelDemandsRevenge.” Posted to an Israeli Facebook page two days ago.

 

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About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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91 Responses

  1. Marshall
    Marshall
    July 3, 2014, 11:24 am

    As opposed to rich Jews, and middle-income Jews, and even poor Jews, who face a very real threat to their livelihood? Based as it is on expropriation and exploitation and US charity.

    The confederacy and its people saw themselves as victims too.

  2. Nevada Ned
    Nevada Ned
    July 3, 2014, 11:30 am

    So MJ Rosenberg claims that Mondoweiss is for “rich Jews who don’t face any threat to their lives, as Israelis do” ??

    The people who REALLY face a threat to their lives are the wretched Palestinians, who are oppressed by Israel. Count the bodies yourself, Mr. Rosenberg!

    Mondoweiss is for Jews and Gentiles who think that Palestinians are people, entitled to human rights.

    Mondoweiss is for anybody who talks about improving the human condition, talks about a love of humanity AND MEANS IT!

    • mikeo
      mikeo
      July 3, 2014, 11:57 am

      “rich Jews who don’t face any threat to their lives, as Israelis do”

      Sounds like MJ…

      Psychological projection anyone?

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        July 3, 2014, 12:43 pm

        @ mikeo
        Yeah, MJ always projects his own stuff on others. Many people who have long supported and contributed financially and by commentary to Mondoweiss are not even Jewish or rich, or even “well-off.” I am one of them. Anybody else want to “fess up?”

      • Woody Tanaka
        Woody Tanaka
        July 3, 2014, 1:00 pm

        “Many people who have long supported and contributed financially and by commentary to Mondoweiss are not even Jewish or rich, or even “well-off.” I am one of them. Anybody else want to “fess up?””

        I’m not going to play that game because it feeds into the Israeli/Zionist narrative, which is to focus exclusively on Israeli identity, Jews and Jewish history and Judaism as a religion.

        Those things are wholly trivial and marginal at best to what should be the key and only issue and that is whether or not one people can oppress another based on their ethno-religious (or racial or liguistic, etc.) background. As soon as you start engaging the question of justice for the Palestinian from the Jewish perspective, you’ve lost the game, because then everything from Hitler to Torquemada to Mel Gibson will be used to mask the fact that the Israelis are, objective, doing evil.

        In my mind, when someone raises one of the Jewish issue, the only proper response is “Jews aren’t entitled to oppress non-Jews simply because they’re non-Jews, so nothing more has to be said about the ‘Jewish character’ of the conflict.”

      • Djinn
        Djinn
        July 3, 2014, 9:57 pm

        I’m not entirely sure where I fall on the Jewish part, according to some that is an ethnic/genetic designation regardless of ones adherence to the religion. If that’s the case then I’d have to be at least partly Jewish.

        As for rich, that one is easy. I’ve worked in international development/social work for 20 years so obviously I’m positively rolling in it.

      • American
        American
        July 3, 2014, 3:57 pm

        Is mj over in Israel doing protest or otherwise putting himself in harm’s way?……

    • annie
      annie
      July 3, 2014, 12:24 pm

      Mondoweiss is for “rich Jews who don’t face any threat to their lives, as Israelis do”

      umm, lots of people i know who read (and support) mondowiess are not jewish, including me. this is not an exclusive jewish enclave, at all. rosenburg needs to wake up, israel/palestine is not an exclusive jewish issue in this country, nor in the world.

      and it’s definitely an american problem. we all pay for it whether we like it or not.

      • jenin
        jenin
        July 3, 2014, 1:09 pm

        I don’t think that non-Jews count for these liberal Zionists. In the end, their so-called liberalism is about preserving Israel’s standing the international community so that in the end, Israel’s existence as a Jewish state is not threatened. Peter Beinart basically says as much. So does Ari Shavit, if he can even be called a liberal Zionist. Their concern has nothing to do with the actual harm to Palestinians, but is mere strategy for preserving Israel’s legitimacy in the eyes of the international community. I would bet anything if the rest of the world was ignoring Israel’s human rights violations, these liberal Zionists would not blink an eye or say a word

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        July 3, 2014, 6:49 pm

        @ Annie Robbins
        Yep. I don’t know where MJR get his tossed facts from. Do You? I do know that MJR blocks anybody on Twitter who contests what he says.

    • jenin
      jenin
      July 3, 2014, 1:06 pm

      the liberal Zionists really show their true colors when there is a catastrophe like this one. in the end, they’ll always side with Israel, no matter how deplorably that country behaves. That’s the problem with having a view based first and foremost upon the good of the Jews, as opposed to human rights principals– if your view isn’t based on realization of basic human rights for all, then you can throw all your so-called liberalism out the window when you feel that Israel is being threatened.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 3, 2014, 5:45 pm

      MJ Rosenberg? That MJ Rosenberg? The one who used to post here? Huh?
      Must be a different guy, or did MJ find his inner Zionist? Please tell me he wrote an article describing his reversion to Zionism. I’d love to read it.

      Gosh, who knew one little post questioning circumcision could do so much damage?

  3. Kay24
    Kay24
    July 3, 2014, 11:35 am

    Great interview with Max Blumenthal. He is so right, when he says these Israeli kids are brought up with extremism and racism. We have seen so many videos of the viciousness, and anger against others, especially Arabs, and, as he says, if the doors of a youth group has such racist posters, what does it say about the climate of hate inside.
    The hasbaracuda comments are also full of hate and lies. Israel is brainwashing the next generations to become the nazis of their times, and history shows what happened to them.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      July 3, 2014, 1:49 pm

      The indoctrination and militarisation processes go back years. They have been iterating away since 1967 and intensified since 1977. This week’s pogrom didn’t come out of the ether. It took dedicated work by many Zionists to build the Israeli culture which allowed the extremism to flourish.

  4. W.Jones
    W.Jones
    July 3, 2014, 11:51 am

    Bradley Burston published a column in Haaretz accusing this site of “kidnap denial” because of a comment in our comment section;

    Phil, there is no way to satiate liberal nationalists when it comes to them criticizing each other. It’s like students in high school. It was “normal” for the students to pick on eachother and on you as well, wasn’t it?

    There is no way anyone is going to “control” and be responsible for a comment section on any blog or news site unless they thoroughly scrub out anything they seriously disagree with. Typically what the best sites do is ban anything that is obviously strong racist or obscene material, which is what you have done. Personally, I think you went too far in banning Blankfort.

    But the main point is that IP is a sticky issue, and strong progressive, leftwing nationalism is a contradiction when one’s own nationalism is the one on top. So it creates a situation where being picked on is inevitable. One person will say something liberal about the situation and another person will say something nationalist, or vice verse, and then they fight with eachother, even though their own ideology is supposed to be the same. MJR might accept settlement boycotts, while J Street won’t, and then someone from J Street could end up attacking MJR.

    You can’t let yourself be intimidated by all this.

    • Rusty Pipes
      Rusty Pipes
      July 3, 2014, 12:53 pm

      Blankfort’s perspective certainly would be relevant in the comments about Chomsky’s Nation article.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        July 3, 2014, 6:53 pm

        Blankfort & Atzmon are relevant.

      • hophmi
        hophmi
        July 4, 2014, 3:43 pm

        Only to antisemites.

  5. Dan Crowther
    Dan Crowther
    July 3, 2014, 11:51 am

    F MJ Rosenberg

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      July 3, 2014, 1:50 pm

      Feckless Mutilation of Judaism ?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 3, 2014, 6:28 pm

        “Feckless Mutilation of Judaism ?”

        As I remember, MJ Rosenberg was very much in favor of feckless mutilation. Actually, he seemed to be convinced something awful would happen if we stopped, or even thought about it.

  6. Bumblebye
    Bumblebye
    July 3, 2014, 11:54 am

    OT, but for Mondo readers in Palestine – the Guardian’s asking for your stories!
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/02/living-in-palestine-how-have-recent-events-affected-you

    “After three young Israelis have been killed and now a young Palestinian has been found dead, tensions are mounting. Though we understand how sensitive the situation is, we’d like to understand the perspectives of people living in Palestine. How are recent events affecting you, your family and the people around you?

    You can contribute your experiences, photos or videos by clicking on the blue ‘Contribute’ button on this article or there’s a GuardianWitness app for smartphones. We do review all of our content before it’s published. If you have any problems submitting, you can also email your contributions to [email protected]

    Though we’d like to hear from you, your security is most important. We recognise it may not always be safe to record or share your experiences – so please think about this when sharing your content with GuardianWitness.

    We will use the most interesting contributions in our coverage.”

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      July 3, 2014, 2:24 pm

      Maybe it’s nothing, Bumblebye, but the Guardian’s wording is curious. The Israeli kids were “killed” but the Palestinian boy was “found dead.” The shift to the passive within the same sentence is odd.

      • Egbert
        Egbert
        July 3, 2014, 2:31 pm

        The Guardian has been mainlining ziocaine for some time. The article is put forward only because the reports about the Palestinian boy make Israel look bad.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 3, 2014, 5:49 pm

        “The Guardian has been mainlining ziocaine for some time.”

        “Ziocaine”? Good Lord, where did a horrible locution like that come from?
        Like Zionism is a drug which alters perception and corrodes the character?

        Well, I’d like to get my hands on the moser who made up that horrible word!

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        July 3, 2014, 3:48 pm

        @ritzl
        I noticed that the writer at least used the word Palestine, as opposed to any zio-preferred term, or ‘occupied territories’, etc! And there are multitudes of incredibly articulate and able young Palestinians, some of whom will hopefully see this and submit stories about the effect on their lives.

      • ritzl
        ritzl
        July 3, 2014, 4:11 pm

        Yes, while I get what Egbert said just above, The Guardian does seem to waft into as well as out of editorial focus on this issue. It was just odd that they couldn’t decide within the space of one sentence.

        Their call for personal stories is a great idea, brings P/I into focus, and I hope they get a huge response. Thanks for the link. Bookmarked.

  7. seafoid
    seafoid
    July 3, 2014, 12:08 pm

    “But conditions of naked apartheid are denied by a “coterie of liberal Zionists” in the United States because their Jewish identity is predicated on the existence of a “dreamcastle Israel.”

    Israel has been a nightmare for a long time.
    http://www.amazon.com/Original-Sins-Reflections-History-Zionism/dp/1566561310

    It’s like the picture of Dorian Israel
    So handsome stateside
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H-QkpT0uKk

    But back in the attic

    • Kay24
      Kay24
      July 3, 2014, 12:13 pm

      The expiration date on the Israeli brutal occupation expired long time ago.
      The UN together with the UK and the US are responsible for this outrage, but they only care that their favorite occupier, is kept happy, ignoring it’s crimes.

      If this is not the time for boycotts and sanctions, then I don’t know when.

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      July 3, 2014, 2:31 pm
      • Walid
        Walid
        July 3, 2014, 4:05 pm

        ritzl, that was another of my old favourites, especially with Angela Lansbury playing the role of Sybil Vane and the movie’s first casualty singing “Goodbye Little Yellow Bird”. It was her second movie:

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        July 3, 2014, 4:59 pm

        The trailer could have been written about Israel

      • just
        just
        July 3, 2014, 5:33 pm

        seafoid– Astute, as usual.

        (great movie, too)

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        July 3, 2014, 7:47 pm

        Thanks, again, to dear Oscar.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        July 3, 2014, 7:48 pm

        But Angela survived to deal with Murders in Maine.

      • ritzl
        ritzl
        July 3, 2014, 11:38 pm

        Walid- A really creepy movie, even by today’s standards.

  8. seafoid
    seafoid
    July 3, 2014, 12:22 pm

    “MJ Rosenberg tweeted that this website is just rich Jews who don’t face any threat to their lives, as Israelis do; Bradley Burston published a column in Haaretz accusing this site of “kidnap denial” because of a comment in our comment section; and that column was affirmed by Jeffrey Goldberg”

    Am I bugging you? I mean to bug you

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 3, 2014, 6:32 pm

      “MJ Rosenberg tweeted that this website is just rich Jews who don’t face any threat to their lives, as Israelis do”

      We are so lucky MJ Rosenberg didn’t point out what happens to Jews when they are a tiny minority in a country where the government is forbidden to make laws protecting them! They could end up like we did in America!

      But at least he admits Israel is probably the most dangerous place in the world for Jews.

  9. Henry Norr
    Henry Norr
    July 3, 2014, 12:39 pm

    A related note that might be of interest to folks in the Bay Area: KPFA, our local Pacifica outlet, was scheduled to air a re-run of an old interview with Max this morning at 8 a.m. They even promo’d the interview on the air earlier this morning.

    But when 8 o’clock rolled around, no Max – instead, they played a re-run of an old interview with Bill Ayers.

    The program in question is Uprising, an LA-based interview show hosted by Sonali Kolhatkar, which KPFA management recently decided to pipe in in place of a diverse, community-based show called the Morning Mix. Sonali’s website, uprisingradio.org, says today’s installment is the interview with Max, and KPFK, the LA Pacifica station where the show originates, in fact aired it – I listened to it on the stream from KPFK.org.

    The interview itself is from Max’s book tour last year, and to those of us who’ve read Goliath and/or heard other interviews with Max, it was all pretty familiar. But at least it was important background for understanding the current anti-Palestinian pogroms in Jerusalem and elsewhere. Yet somebody at KPFA made a last-minute decision to dump it in favor of the Ayers interview, which had no direct connection at all to anything to today’s news.

    KPFA also declined to sponsor a talk by Max during his book tour last year, even though they sponsor events with all kinds of authors every year. When I complained that they weren’t having Max, the guy in charge of the events series told me they were “too busy.”

    KPFA does do some good coverage of the Palestine issue, particularly on shows called Flashpoints and Voices of the Middle East and North Africa. Yesterday they had Rashid Khalidi and Shlomi Eldar on another morning show. But the last-minute blocking of the interview with Max is pretty fishy…

    • Philip Munger
      Philip Munger
      July 3, 2014, 1:26 pm

      Here is the interview Henry Norr notes:

      http://youtu.be/qLQ3U3muExE

    • Henry Norr
      Henry Norr
      July 3, 2014, 3:05 pm

      Follow-up: KPFA claims it was just slip-up. Sonali Kolhatkar apparently sent two re-runs, Max for today and Ayers for tomorrow, but someone accidentally played the wrong one today. The interview with Max is now supposed to air tomorrow.

      Anyone know of any new interviews with Max this week? He’d obviously have a lot to say about the latest developments.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        July 3, 2014, 3:15 pm

        Henry, there was a good interview with max Blumenthal on RT television yesterday. Abby martin’s program. She let him speak his piece, which he did quite effectively, proceeding to reinforce the comments on her own. I believe RT is “letting” Abby “go there” periodically. As long as it’s not too much (well, they have to be really careful. For those who get and can watch RT, it’s an amazingly refreshing channel – give or take some production issues**. Really “subversive” at times, but sure beats every other alternative).

        An aside; also yesterday on peter lavelle’s program (a really good one much of the time) he had Jim Lobe and Robert parry on. Agree or disagree with either, they are good analysts, and where else can we see any realists interviewed on any MSM?
        ___
        * such as the ubiquitous reliance on what I call “bimbo news buster’ effect. De rigeur on all channels nowadays, not just RT or Fox. Even those who don’t look bimbo-ish, are made-up to look so. I think Abby’s program for example, would be a lot better if they just let her dress like a normal person).

      • Henry Norr
        Henry Norr
        July 3, 2014, 4:11 pm

        Hi, Danaa. Good to see you, so to speak, and thanks for the RT tip. I just looked the interview up and am playing it right now. For the benefit of anyone else who may be interested, the show is at
        http://rt.com/shows/breaking-set-summary/170116-militarizing-facebook-tribal-blues/
        and the segment with Max begins at 13:55.

      • MahaneYehude1
        MahaneYehude1
        July 3, 2014, 4:22 pm

        Hi Dana,

        Glad to meet you again in MW, I missed you! Hope to see you soon in Jerusalem. Please, call me before so I can prepare for you some good Kurdish food. see you.

      • Keith
        Keith
        July 4, 2014, 2:25 pm

        DANAA- Glad to see you back commenting on Mondoweiss! I attempted to reply to your thoughtful comment to me on the Chomsky thread, however, when I clicked on the “submit” icon a message said that the thread was closed. I appreciate your thoughtful comment and find you thought provoking even when we disagree. My concern on that thread was not that folks disagreed with Chomsky (I did too, somewhat), but at the unjustified ad hominem attack on the man and his work well beyond his mild criticisms/suggestions concerning BDS. Furthermore, while acknowledging your psychological perspective, I think it goes beyond that. Nowadays, the manufacture of consent includes psy-ops involving the internet and social media. I sense a certain orchestrated aspect to this whole business. Control of funding is a powerful means of eliciting a desired response without even asking. Enough said. Welcome back.

      • Danaa
        Danaa
        July 4, 2014, 3:21 pm

        Keith, thanks for taking the trouble to reply even incurring the extra heart beats from that thread-hopping exercise . It is frustrating that threads close prematurely nowadays, though I expected that – and probably more to come. My absentism has something to do with a disenchantment and even more so with disconsolateness – the Cassadra routine is getting kind of old, not to mention pointless. I don’t want for the disconsolation to shine through since, well, what’s the point? Much better to give support, where and how I can, to those who act in defiance of whatever it is that’s being prepared for us all. Out in the world, things are at the stage where they are getting worse (hopefully before they get better) both on the I/P front and on the many Empire’s battle fields, now grown to encompass Ukraine, EU, yet again – Iraq, and a few other barely mentionables, like oil, gas and grand finance.

        Personally, I have always taken a bit of an issue with the tendency in progressive ranks to chump down on their own. Chomsky, like Finkelstein, like Greenwald, are lightening rods. As my other comment said, there is this inclination, among progressives, for hero worship to take hold. Was just thinking of Chris hedges the other day and, of course, Greenwald, who is the subject of any number of conspiracy theories. At the end of day, all these heroes, Chomsky at the head of the pack, are just human. Not all their opinions are solid, not all their positions consistent. if they are lucky, they live to get old which might make them ramble a bit. Knowing all that, my own disappointment in Chomsky is rather mild, if there at all, since I never did the adulation part either. He has done and said much that is good and even great, and sometimes brilliant. His current anarchism speaks to me, as kind of the last refuge of the scoundrels among the 99%. He is occupying a very large space in the progressive halls, and one can hardly be surprised that there’ll be those who prefer to serve notices of eviction rather than roll up the sleeves and clean some of the dust around. Frankly, if everything Chomsky ever said was right on and totally consistent with mine or anyone else’s preferences, I’d get really worried.

        For myself, I am quite content to see Chomsky serve to precipitate ongoing debates about BDS and specifically about jewish attitudes to it, and therefore to Israel. It’s a good angle to discuss and an opportunity for many to examine and re-examine their own attitudes. We should all be so lucky that a mere collection of words would stir such a tempest. At least for some of us it’s Chomsky rather than Danerys or Jon Snow that cause us to go into convulsions of eloquence.

        Also, I am sometimes amazed at the willingness by some to assume that there can ever be a perfect severing or a disconnect between the role of Empire and the role of Israel. Sometimes one leads and the other schemes to find benefit, sometimes it’s the other way around. However the I/P conflict began, whatever the outsize role of the Lobby is and was, by now, the two are tied in a gordian knot, with no sword in sight to cut through. Some day the sword will be found and both will go out in a flame (hopefully leaving some of us standing). Treating Chomsky as if he is an Arthur, turned into a dark lord of Camelot, is well…a bit too dramatic.

      • hophmi
        hophmi
        July 4, 2014, 4:25 pm

        Can’t really understand people who say they’re all about international law and against Empire. International Law is a creation of Empire. So is Palestinian nationalism. It’s just a different empire. Israel was created by the people who fought to create it.

  10. hophmi
    hophmi
    July 3, 2014, 1:02 pm

    Keep denying that there is a coterie of racists in the pro-Palestinian community who are quick to assert that anything the Palestinians do is a conspiracy theory planted by Jews or Israelis. One comment? It was a lot more than that. And these comments come from the same people who spin antisemitic conspiracy theories about the Mossad being responsible for 9/11.

    • justicewillprevail
      justicewillprevail
      July 3, 2014, 4:29 pm

      Like the zionists in denial about who killed the Palestinian boy, and trotting out their usual conspiracy theories? The straw you are clutching looks very thin, even imaginary.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 3, 2014, 5:58 pm

      I’m with you, Hophmi! Just wait til I catch the guy who spread that libelous story that Zionist first co-operated with the colonial powers in the area, and then went far beyond what even they intended, and got their way through violence and manipulation! I ask you, what kind of person would make up that kind of story?
      And what about the total mis-representation of Israeli culture and actions today? No doubt, all made up by a racist core!

      And when I find the guy who is saying all that stuff about “occupation”, settlements and settlers, boom I’ll give him such a hit!

      For God’s sake, Hophmi, you’ve got to dial it back a bit. See, it might be possible for a Jewish person, to have a secret, even guilty pride in the “toughness” or even aggressiveness of Zionism. Okay, that might work. But all this trying to appeal to us on the basis of being stupid and helpless, that’s got to stop.

  11. David Doppler
    David Doppler
    July 3, 2014, 1:20 pm

    Drawing fire from these sites is an acknowledgement of MW’s success in giving voice to a different perspective on Israel’s role in Middle East unrest. I always liked this quote, which has relevance here: “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.” – Mahatma Gandhi

    I, too, deplore the lack of sympathy for mothers whose children have been murdered, wherever they’re expressed, and attribute such brutality to a somatic state of kill-or-be-killed in which sides are chosen subliminally and hostile acts flow from perceiving the “other” as just a threat to be destroyed, like an enemy in a video game, or like a shot on goal to be deflected. Peace is a very different somatic state, in which differences of culture/racial/religious/ethnic background are experienced as a richness of life, to be enjoyed and explored without undue concern over personal safety.

    Both somatic states are fundamentally human, forged through the crucible of evolution, and the role of civilized, intellectual debate should be in part to determine what is the appropriate state for given circumstances, and how can those circumstances be managed to promote peace and minimize war.

    [As a World Cup aside, competitive sports evoke such strong emotional responses from fans because they replicate, in harmless “civilized” form, the kinds of competitions that in our evolutionary past saw small teams venturing out from home sites in search of game (a ball in a net is a lot like a rabbit in a snare or on the end of a stick, evoking the triumph of the hunter who’s delivered protein to the group through the ancient skills of the predator), and, in such a hunt through the territory surrounding ones camp, there was always the possibility of confronting a similar group from a neighboring camp, during which battle on contested ground is always a possibility: the World Cup and the Olympics provide a civilized, controlled means to play out the emotions of these hunts and competitive battles, representing one’s community, flag, team/national colors, and at the expense of the neighboring tribes, but without (too much, or too serious) blood-shed (note the heroism of Clint Dempsey playing through a broken, bloodied nose and black eye). And note how the two somatic states can coexist through civilized competitive events like the World Cup.]

    Kudos to MW for putting the lie to the long-standing story line that Israel cannot be blamed for anything, except by Anti-Semites who deny Israel’s right to exist. It has done so by original, in-depth, meticulous reporting of the uncomfortable and unwelcome reality; namely, that right-wing zealots who are guilty of Anti-Arab or Anti-Gentile racism are in league with settlers who intend to take Palestinian land for themselves and who have nothing but contempt for Palestinians, Arabs, and the international community, are a political force in Israel that, so far, cannot be crossed, at risk of certain loss of power, or worse, assassination.

    There are posts printed here in the comment section that simply favor one side or the other in the kill-or-be-killed state of mind, and I, for one, would be pleased to see a stricter screening process, to focus on the intellectual debate, as opposed to mere name-calling, vilification of the other or demagoguery. Facts, all of them, however uncomfortable, followed by reasoned discourse on what they mean, how we should respond, and who should be held to account, in the best American tradition of open debate.

    By the way, as further evidence that MW is on the path to winning, Tzipi Livni is quoted in Ha’aretz today as saying she’s tired of being “politically correct,” by which she means avoiding criticism of the settler enterprise, and she obviously thinks it is time to call for an end to settlements as a necessary part of advancing the peace process.

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.597630

    She’s not likely to ever acknowledge the constructive role of MW in bringing her to this statement, but that is in part where the room to make such a comment is coming from, and it is part of the background that continues to create the school of opinion in the broader Israeli, American Jewish and international communities in which such a call will increasingly be given credence. And the violent racists in the Israeli camp will at last be acknowledged and finally disciplined, so that the oppression imposed on the Palestinians can be brought to an end, and its role in fueling jihad can be neutralized.

    • ritzl
      ritzl
      July 3, 2014, 3:09 pm

      Great comment, DD. Except that Livni’s current, settlements-only(??) political toe-dipping baby-step outside of Israeli PC is way too little, way too late. She always had it in her to do something significant, imho, but always chose not to. The forces have been unleashed. She’s on the backside of the Israeli political power curve (which means there isn’t anything she can do to stop the descent).

      One of the things that the libzio and broader Zionist community will have to come to grips with is that the demise of Israel’s “dreamcastle” status will not be a tepid intellectual exercise addressable through PR campaigns. It’s going to make a lot of them look like fools (in hindsight to them, foresight to MW).

      • seafoid
        seafoid
        July 3, 2014, 3:52 pm

        Yes, it’s too late. I suppose when she was FM the powers of nihilism were too strong and she didn’t have the balls.

        Carlo Strenger has written an awesome piece on the Zionist aversion to peace.

        http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-peace-conference/1.601122

        “The former Shin Bet security service chiefs interviewed in Dror Moreh’s poignant documentary “The Gatekeepers” all describe the moral price of the occupation – for example, of causing Palestinians to turn against their own people and collaborate with Israel. Moreh’s interviewees are the exception rather than the norm. They have the human strength to say that their jobs made them do terrible things. For most humans, it is almost impossible to do terrible things and live with the realization that these acts were immoral.

        Almost every Israeli in the last 47 years has done military service in the territories. Almost all of them have had to do things that go against human decency and morality – often not for the sake of Israel’s security at large, but to protect some isolated outpost of settlers. If indeed Israel were to reach peace with the Palestinians and the Arab world, most Israelis would have to live with the painful realization that most of what Israel has done to the Palestinians was unnecessary; that Israel could have ended the occupation a long time ago; and that the energies and resources invested in the West Bank’s colonization could have been invested in Israel’s flourishing instead.”

        Zionism has a high probability of going the way of the Tacoma Narrows bridge- the wrong engineering calculations, the wrong model, the wrong adherence to the fashion of the time and the wrong weather/political conditions combine

        Judaism needs another bridge to the future.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        July 3, 2014, 6:10 pm

        Excuse me seafoid, but when did “Judaism” endorse Zionism as the bridge to it’s future? As I read the story, they just took it. It was never a matter of choice for Judaism, and it was never endorsed by Judaism.
        I know I’m beating a dead horse, poor thing, but there isn’t even a method, a process, by which Judaism can endorse any given policy or reject it.
        Judaism, as an organized religion, is splintered, and weak. The Zionists hi-jacked it.

      • Mikhael
        Mikhael
        July 4, 2014, 6:49 am

        Mooser says:
        July 3, 2014 at 6:10 pm
        Judaism, as an organized religion, is splintered, and weak. The Zionists hi-jacked it.

        Modern political Zionism endorses the idea that self-determination could be achieved for the Jewish People through secular means in a modern nation-state in the historic Jewish homeland. While it is true that during centuries of exile, Judaism, an essentially political and nationalistic religion, reconciled itself to the idea that the restoration of sovereignty to the Jews in their own land could only be achieved through “divine” means and be deferred until a future Messianic age, the national ideas of modern political Zionism, an essentially secular political national movement, are still nourished and infused by the religious values of Judaism. Not all varieties of Judaism endorse a modern nation-state for the Jewish People in their homeland, for example fanatic groups like Neturei Karta famously denounce modern Israel as an abomination and a betrayal of the Jewish People’s loyalty to God, however, Judaism simply does and cannot exist without the centrality of Eretz Yisrael and the notion of Jewish peoplehood. In this respect, Judaism is fundamentally different from the other major monotheistic faiths. While the other faith traditions, be they the various forms of the Jesus cult, Islam, or Zorastrianism, etc. stress to their adherents the importance of the relationship between them and their creator, and will no longer consider people who are agnostic or deny the existence of a divine being as per the teachings of their religious texts and traditions to be Muslims, Christians, Bahais, as the case may be, a Jew who rejects the teachings of “Judaism” (to the extent that there is such a thing as Judaism) embodied in the Torah and Talmud and denies the existence of a God still remains a Jew. To the extent that such a thing as Judaism exists, it is the national cult of a historic people and the importance of that people’s attachment to its land is as important in what you call “Judaism” as the relationship between humankind and the divine.

  12. Sycamores
    Sycamores
    July 3, 2014, 3:15 pm

    the idea behind Mondoweiss four principal aims has come to age. MJR and Burston are unwittingly apart of the progress of a ‘diversity of voices to promote dialogue on these important issues’.

    hoping to see more of MW been references on major news sites in the future.

    it looks like MJR has a love/hate relationship with MW, he can’t stop complaining about MW yet he can’t stop reading it.
    this won’t gain me no friends but i bear no ill feelings towards him. i wish he give up his ad hominem tweets towards MW and have it out on the comment section instead or even write an article for MW detailing his issues. if he’s not here already under a different name, now there’s a though.

  13. mikeo
    mikeo
    July 3, 2014, 3:39 pm

    i wish he give up his ad hominem tweets towards MW and have it out on the comment section instead

    I very much doubt that will be happening again, he got his arse handed to him last time.

    In the UK we have an expression for types like MJ: “They can dish it out, but they can’t take it…”

  14. American
    American
    July 3, 2014, 3:48 pm

    MJ Rosenberg ,Bradley Burston, Jeffery Goldberg, Josh Marshall,
    Ruth Marks, Peter Beinart…all of them lie….they lie by not telling the ‘whole truth’….which is the same as telling a deliberate lie ..imo.

  15. wondering jew
    wondering jew
    July 3, 2014, 3:50 pm

    Yes, what we need right now is the level headed words and mouth of Max B. Not.
    Of course Gershom Gorenberg should be lumped together with Jeffrey Goldberg and Ron Kampeas, regarding building castles in the air. Not. I like how Max boasts about when he lived in Israel for a few months. Practically an Israeli, huh?

    I dismissed the racism in Israeli society for too long and Max showed that I was wrong and I admit I was wrong.

    I think that a leader like Netanyahu with little care for the people throws around the word revenge is quite responsible for not acting like a leader instead like a demagogue. I think the extended period of time of searching for the murdered settler teens (and not helped incidentally by all the “allegedly”‘s of mondoweiss and the anger built up by the accusation implied by that “allegedly”) built up anger. There is widespread hatred for Palestinians and racism towards Arabs and that is not something that is easy to put a stop to, when the policy on the West Bank gives citizenship to Jews living there and denies citizenship to nonJews living there. There are racist implications to the ideas of the founders of Zionism. But the twilight zone of a settler occupation of the west bank creates a dynamic of uncertainty that certainly worsens the situation and the reactions of the citizens of Israel.

    • seafoid
      seafoid
      July 3, 2014, 4:40 pm

      The realisation that the last 47 years were wasted is also there in the background, I imagine. I wonder how many Israelis see through Netanyahu and the rest of the thugs in Government. They managed to drag YESHA through to 2014 but the context is very uncertain, much more so than Sharon would have imagined when he went walkabout on the Haram al Sharif.

      BTW Yonah I don’t think you need to have grown up in Hod Hasharon to see that Israel is a mess. Blumenthal is very good on the disconnect between what he was taught growing up in the Diaspora and what he sees in Israel.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 3, 2014, 6:17 pm

      “(and not helped incidentally by all the “allegedly”‘s of mondoweiss and the anger built up by the accusation implied by that “allegedly”) built up anger.”

      How do you say “Look what Mondoweiss made us do!” in Israeli Hebrew?
      Yes sir, I’ve heard IDF troops, when they wreck Palestinian homes cry “Take that, allegedly!” and “I’m allegedly going to shoot you!”
      My God, how much harm that one little word does! And how awful we are for using it.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 3, 2014, 6:23 pm

      “I dismissed the racism in Israeli society for too long”

      ‘But I made damn sure to dismiss it long enough to profit from it.’

  16. American
    American
    July 3, 2014, 4:39 pm

    MJ (Mike) [email protected] · 14m

    Phil Weiss interviews Max Blumenthal: so German Jew 1930. http://youtu.be/6baL2-8MTTE via

    mj’s ” German Jew 1930″ jogged my memory. It came back to me that I had an arguement with him long ago on one of his columns at TPM. I cant quote his actual words but it was to the effect that the Jews in the ghettos in Germany could have ‘defeated the Germans if they just had the weapons. He is hung up on the powerlessness of the Jews in Germany during the nazi era. I told him this was a crazy idea, that no group, I dont care who they were, who were in the position that the Jews were in could have overcome their captors and the German SS and military. Well he flipped out and stood me down that they could have. I think this 1930 helpless Jews picture in his head is what he cant get over and what gives him his idiot macho complex about the Israel military and all his tough guy talk.
    Its almost like he resents the German Jews for not doing more against the Germans and now encourages their ‘warrior’ mentality. He is not playing with a full deck—-there was No way the Jews could have saved themselves even with weapons…they could have killed a few Germans but they would have been cut down in short order by the larger force….but mj cant get over that.

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      July 3, 2014, 6:01 pm

      Well, when one looks at MJ Rosenbergs brilliant military career, working his way up from enlisted man to officer by his feats of bravery, one can see why he expects the same martial ardor from the rest of us.

      Wait, that MJ Rosenberg?

      • American
        American
        July 4, 2014, 12:17 am

        Take a gander at the real mj……trying to shame Jews for mingling with the goyium. Such a phony.

        “” The sad fact is that the Jewish Tom is an inevitable product of American civilization. ” …. mj rosenberg

        https://twitter.com/MJayRosenberg/status/484800565202128896

        MJ (Mike) Rosenberg‏@MJayRosenberg
        This appeared in Village Voice in 1969. Quite dated. BUT my references to Uncle Tom Jews is not.

        TO UNCLE TOM & OTHER SUCH JEWS

        by M. Jay Rosenberg

        It is becoming increasingly fashionable in certain left-wing Jewish
        circles to put down everything Jew­ish. These Jewish leftists, still
        hung-up because they were not born Protestant, find that they can glibly
        resort to anti-Jewish stereotypes today without being referred to a
        good psychiatrist. It is now quite acceptable for the Jew to attempt
        to ingratiate himself with the goyim by condemning what he has always
        been ashamed of. It’s a sad sight.
        We are living in a time of exploding nationalisms. The blacks in
        America are the first to abjure the idea of assimilation, to realize the
        inherent lie in the concept of melting pot. Through black nationalism has developed a new black pride and hence the ticket to liberation.
        Today’s young American Jew is a good bit slower. He desperately
        wants assimilation: Jewishness em­barrasses him. He finds the idea
        of Jewish nationalism, Israel not withstanding, laughable. The leftist
        Jewish student is today’s Uncle Tom. He scrapes along, demonstrating for a John Hatchett, ashamed of his identity, and obsessed with
        it. He cannot accept the fact that he is seen as a Jew, that his destiny is
        that of the Jews, and that his only effectiveness is as a Jew.
        But he wants to be an “American,” a leftist American, talking liberation and aspiring WASP. He is a ludicrous figure.
        He joins black nationalist groups, not as a Jew but as a white man.
        His whiteness, his precious whiteness, is too valuable to him for it to
        be relegated to a secondary position. He does not understand that his re­
        levance to the black struggle is as a Jew and a fellow victim of endless
        white exploitation. He can comprehend the black struggle but only in
        the context of his own. His involvement in these black nationalist orga­
        nizations make him a living lie.
        Blacks don’t need his white leader­ ship and they don’t want it. The sad
        fact is that the Jewish Tom is an inevitable product of American
        civi­lization. But it is time that he realize that he, not today’s black, is the
        invisible man; he, like yesterday’s Negro, wanders in a no man’s land.
        The Jew can be an ally of the black liberation movement and he
        should be. But first he must find himself. He must realize that his
        own struggle for liberation is a continuing one, that he too has much
        to fear and also much of which to be proud. The miracle of Israel, a na­
        tional liberation deferred for 2000 years, should be his inspiration.
        The Jew did it alone, as the black knows he must, and he did it with
        guns.
        Therefore it is as a Jew that I must accept black nationalism. The
        black militants may or may not be the equivalent of the Irgun and Stern
        gang, but surely the parallel is there.
        The Jewish war of national liberation is different from that of the
        blacks or the Viet Cong only in that the Jews are closer to success, but
        what was won by Jewish fighters on the battlefields of Palestine will not
        be lost by Jewish moral cowards here in America. The black revolution also will succeed, but when it does the blacks will lose all their white
        “friends.” They will be called “anti progressive.” They will labelled the
        aggressors. If they win again and again, they will be called “oppressors”. As he does now, the black will surely stand alone.
        He can learn this much from the Jewish experience. When they
        slaughtered six million of us, the good people offered us sympathy,
        and nothing else. They uttered bro­therly noises. It was when the fight­
        ing Jew arose from the blood and ashes of Europe that we began to
        lose our friends. The world began to accept our national existence but was prepared to mourn our imminent demise. Who can forget those “glo­
        rious” days before the Six Day War.
        All over the world good people demonstrated for Israel. One can
        almost picture the left’s reaction to the death of Israel: never-ending
        sympathy rallies, leftists wearing the Star of David on black arm­
        bands. Israel could have come to represent the fight for freedom, the
        struggle to exist. Her people, driven to the sea, could have been mar­
        tyrs. It would have been beautiful.
        But Israel won the war and in so doing she lost her “friends.” Be­
        cause she survived, she shall be punished.
        But that is not the issue; the absurdity of the left’s anti-Israel posi­
        tion can be taken up on another day.
        The issue is one of Jewish pride.
        All those Jewish students who whis­ per the word “Jew” and lower their
        heads when a Philip Roth story is discussed in a literature course, the
        Mark Rudds who âre prepared to die for the Vietnamese, the Biafrans,
        the Greeks, and the Czechs yet who reject Israel – these are our Uncle
        Toms (let’s call them “Uncle Jakes”) and our shame. The Jew must
        accept his identity, he’s not just another white man. It’s time he rea­
        lizes he’s a Jew, and he’d better accept it. Many Jews are quick to
        criticize blacks for being impolitic enough to call us Jews in public.
        But that is what we are. From Hillel Club to the New Left is a
        short jump. And the inevitable jump back, by the Jewish Tom, is even
        shorter. A man who cannot accept his own identity is a hypocrite and a
        liar when he pretends to accept someone else’s.
        Black nationalism and Jewish nationalism will exist concurrently. To
        accept one you must accept the other. The black is America’s Jew;
        a common fight must be waged. And yet when some black spokesman tells us we are poisoning his children’s minds, when he calls us kikes, we
        must see him for what he is. Then he is just another goy using the
        Jew, the available and accepted victim, as scapegoat. We must then
        fight him as well. That’s the way it must be. We shall scrape for no one.
        And thus from this point on, I shall join no movement that does not
        accept and support my peoples’ struggle. If I must choose between
        the Jewish cause and a “progressive” anti-Israel SDS, I shall choose
        the Jewish cause. If the barricades are erected, I will fight as a Jew.
        Not arbitrarily, not in support of the UFT, but in support of myself.
        It is written after “the death camps, we retain but one supreme value; to exist.” Masada will not fall again. There is still time, but the burden
        of proof is not on the Jewish nation­alist, it is on you. You who reject
        your identity and do not realize that it follows you wherever you go. You
        who are so trapped in your Long Island split level childhood that you
        can’t see straight. You who fight everything you are – and against
        the one element that gave you your gddam social consciousness; your
        Jewish social idealism. In the after-math of the crematoriums, you are
        flippant. After Auschwitz, you are embarrassed. Thirty years after the
        holocaust, you have learned nothing and forgotten everything Ghetto Jew, you better do some fast thinking Jew.”

      • libra
        libra
        July 4, 2014, 5:14 pm

        But he wants to be an “American,” a leftist American, talking liberation and aspiring WASP. He is a ludicrous figure.

        I can’t imagine who he’s referring to here but I have to say that someone with a mustache like MJ’s would be wise to avoid calling anyone a ludicrous figure. Unless he’s referring to John Bolton.

  17. seafoid
    seafoid
    July 3, 2014, 4:50 pm

    Very sad to hear at the end of the video about the runaway abused kids from the settlements. Israel has had the wrong priorities for such a long time. And the culture of impunity presumably seeps into other areas of life.

  18. Daniel Rich
    Daniel Rich
    July 3, 2014, 5:38 pm

    Israel rushes forces to southern border with Gaza.

    Do they expect to find an army?

    • Bumblebye
      Bumblebye
      July 3, 2014, 6:42 pm

      jon s on another thread reckons they’ll be going in in 24hrs. A general on bbcR4’s 10pm news (newsreader pronunciation sounded like Gen Giora Ayelund?) said likely within two days, “much more massive actions”, including ground invasion. They know damn well there’s no army waiting for them.

      • jon s
        jon s
        July 4, 2014, 5:21 am

        The general (ret.) was probably Giora Eiland.
        Now there’s talk of an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire, but on the ground, the terrorists are still launching rockets at our civilian population. I repeat my assessment that the next few hours will be decisive one way or the other. Here’s hoping for a ceasefire. People on both sides should be able to go about their lives in peace.

    • just
      just
      July 3, 2014, 6:54 pm

      Bumblebye– I think it’s gonna be the full monty that the criminal GoI has been itching and “gunning” for.

      (so far, it appears as though the west will continue to be accomplices, as usual)

    • Henry Norr
      Henry Norr
      July 3, 2014, 7:36 pm

      I just heard a report on BBC that the movement of Israeli troops to the Gaza border was “a defensive maneuver.” I guess they’re worried that Hamas is going to unleash its state-of-the-art tank battalions and invade Israel…

      • Taxi
        Taxi
        July 4, 2014, 12:29 am

        An invasion of Gaza would endanger israelis in israel proper. Israel can start a war with Gaza but cannot control it and the coward israelis would not be able to handle even puny rockets falling on their (stolen) neighborhoods.

        The idf maneuver to the Gaza border is for israeli domestic consumption. It’s an ape show.

        And if bibi is stupid enough to send his psycho idf into Gaza, so much israeli violence would be seen on the tv screens of the world that it would boost the BDS movement by miles and bounds; not to mention risking an outbreak of regional war that israeli too will not be able to control. A regional war means israelis have to say bye-bye to their ‘safe’ lifestyles and to their “start up” nation.

      • amigo
        amigo
        July 4, 2014, 5:55 am

        “And if bibi is stupid enough to send his psycho idf into Gaza, so much israeli violence would be seen on the tv screens of the world that it would boost the BDS movement by miles and bounds; ” Taxi.

        Quite so Taxi and every time Israel pummels Gaza the international store of hatred for Israel increases until one day the dam will burst and all hell will break loose on Israel.

        The tipping point is not far off.

        What I do not understand is why Abbas does not go to the UN and file charges and then give the keys back to Israel.Let the bastards pay for “their” occupation.

        Enough already.

      • Henry Norr
        Henry Norr
        July 4, 2014, 4:22 pm

        I actually think a lot of Israelis would welcome a regional war, not just because they’re so into blowing sh*t up and killing Arabs, but more specifically because it would give them an opportunity to “finish ’48” – i.e., ethnically cleanse if not all of the West Bank, then at least Area C, plus conceivably the “Little Triangle,” Jaffa, and other parts of Israel “proper.”

        Would the Americans or anyone else stop them under those circumstances? I doubt it, assuming the Israelis are clever enough to provoke the war in such a way that it can all be blamed on “terrorists” or Iran or something.

        Even in that scenario, I can’t imagine any way they could cleanse Gaza, though.

      • annie
        annie
        July 4, 2014, 4:27 pm

        more specifically because it would give them an opportunity to “finish ’48″

        yeah, and the ptb in israel have been itching for a third intifada since right after the UN vote. i documented a lot of israeli press claiming one was coming over and over. they do not do gandhi.lots of radical escalation and incitement.

  19. Nite_Owl
    Nite_Owl
    July 3, 2014, 10:38 pm

    “Bradley Burston published a column in Haaretz accusing this site of “kidnap denial” because of a comment in our comment section”??? What a freakin’ hypocrite. Hasn’t he ever read the vile filth posted in the comment sections of Haaretz, Y’net or the Jerusalem Post directed at not only Palestinians but at anyone and their whole damned country who criticizes Israel’s actions in any way?

    • Ron Edwards
      Ron Edwards
      July 4, 2014, 11:33 am

      Not only that, but again, what “kidnapping?” Is language to have no meaning at all?

      Picked up in a car, presumably against their will for at least some of the ride given the phone call. Shot. Buried.

      Not seeing a kidnapping. The term is being used specifically as code.

      • Nite_Owl
        Nite_Owl
        July 4, 2014, 10:39 pm

        Perhaps the Palestinians could just say the children were “arrested” and were “shot trying to escape” That sort of patent BS seems to work well for the Israeli government.

  20. jon s
    jon s
    July 4, 2014, 5:28 am

    At least one thing should be clear from the events of the last week: anyone who honestly thought there was any chance for a “one-state solution” should be cured of any such illusions. Just look at the horrible, seething, hatred manifested on both sides, and imagine what that would look like. We need two states, urgently.

    • annie
      annie
      July 4, 2014, 1:08 pm

      ah, using this insanity and your “both sides” narrative to justify your political solution? i’m not seeing the “seething hatred” as being equal here. where are the masses of palestinians screaming ‘kill all the jews’?

      what approval and support palestinian many palestinian expressed for the 3 israeli teens was under the assumption they were alive and could be traded for their prisoners. they were not calling for their deaths, mobs were not calling for the death of jews after the cold blooded killings of nadeen and mohammed on nakba day either. nor after muhammad was burned alive.

      eve after thousands of incursions, home demolitions, killings of numerous innocents these last few weeks, there are no calls for revenge killings.

      speak to the ‘seething hatred’ of israeli society if you want, but don’t pretend to speak for palestinians.

      when the chief rabbi of the largest religious zionist org in the world is calling for the death of hundreds of arabs, there’s not a comparable call for genocide, the ‘both sides’ is that of oppressed and oppressor.

      stop the oppression and then one state would probably work out.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      July 4, 2014, 1:19 pm

      Well the onus for a two state solution rests with Israel. They are the only party to the conflict with the power to enforce a yes or no and so far they’ve been saying no. Even in his latest speech Netty describes a state with no control over borders, territory, immigration, self defense. In short a Bantustan. That is not a 2ss.

      In the meantime it’s also doing everything it can to expand it’s borders and limit the territory that could be made into a Palestinian state.

      I’m not a huge poster but I am a frequent reader… I’ve seen you referred to as an Israel supporter…. If you are then it’s incumbent on you to argue for that. I’m a 2ss supporter as well but I’m on the edge. At this point in time Israel is making a mockery of the mere idea and eventually I will no doubt move to the 1ss solution.

      • Citizen
        Citizen
        July 4, 2014, 1:23 pm

        Equality under the law. What’s better?

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        July 4, 2014, 2:58 pm

        I’m fully in support of that. That’s real democracy. Not the pretend kind Israel espouses.

  21. Reds
    Reds
    July 5, 2014, 1:03 am

    I read all over the MSM and on the week in the news for some of the public radio stations in which Liberal Zionists decried “arabs” for hate and at the same time denied hate, abuse, threat, coming from Israeli jews using such words as “Alleged” “if that” “if proven” . Of course when presented with proof from human rights organization they start decrying them as hating Israel and should focus on other countries. They can never just condemn such racism discrimination or hate and always has to attempt and justify it claiming it’s no different then in the U.S. or some other country. Of course such burden of proof they so require to somewhat denounce such are never required when it is leveled at Palestinians.

    I listen to Onpoint Radio a few days ago and listen to this lady call in and rant about how all the hate is coming from the “Arabs” referencing the three Israeli teens there was murdered but of course had no concern for the Palestinian teen that was kidnapped, murder and burnt. When asked about it she was quick to say there were no proof as to revenge killing and said there’s proof that it was actually a rival group that killed the child and accusing Israel was part of the Arab hate against Israel.

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