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Video: ‘I killed for you, with these hands!’ cries Israeli veteran with PTSD

Israel/Palestine
on 88 Comments

All there is to say about this video posted by a friend is, Watch it. A former Israeli soldier named Ido Gal Razon who was a hero of an Israeli operation in Gaza eight years ago called “Clear as Wine” testifies before a parliamentary committee about his PTSD.

“I killed for you, with these hands. You say terrorists with blood on their hands? I killed more than 40 people for you. ..

“[At night] he comes to me and says, ‘Why did you kill me?’…

“The data you present is rubbish.”

At 3:33, a voice says, “Ido let me speak” and his mother rises from the gallery to describe how her son’s mental injuries have torn the family apart.

This is sort of the Israeli version of American Sniper, a lot shorter. And yes, it’s about occupation. It’s about resistance. It’s about the price few are paying for war crimes.

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About Philip Weiss

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88 Responses

  1. Blownaway
    Blownaway
    November 28, 2015, 11:56 am

    They will sacrifice everything and everyone at the altar of Zionism. Now with all the distractions in the world we must be vigilant because the zionists are already plotting their next major move. They always strike during times of global disruption

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 28, 2015, 12:13 pm

      “They always strike during times of global disruption”.Blownaway

      Much of which they are creating through their scheming and interference in the internal affairs of sovereign nations.

      I could not watch the video as I do not speak the lingo and the subtitles are too hazy to read.

  2. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    November 28, 2015, 12:02 pm

    Wow, that was intense. If anyone knows anything about this Operation Clear as Wine (Jesus what a name) please enlighten me. I could not find anything in a quick and dirty search of the inter tubes.

    Being an empathetic person I feel for the man and his family. I’ve got a brother with issues, though not as bad as this. We’ve seen this story play out in our own country. Young men who are sent out to do the dirty work of empire only to be dumped and abandoned when they are of no further use.

    Razon seems very confused. It’s almost as if he feels guilty about feeling guilty. He knows he didn’t kill 40 “terrorists” he killed 40 people defending their homes. But what can he do? Acknowledge to himself that he is a terrorist? But that can’t be because Jews aren’t terrorists. But he knows that he has “blood on his hands” because the dead keep coming to him in his sleep. He wants treatment but all he’s going to get from his government is a pat on the back and some soothing words about heroism then they’ll give him some medals and send him on his way. He’s probably too messed up to take the next step which would be to go to war against his governement. Those are the real terrorist.

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      November 28, 2015, 3:56 pm

      Like you I can feel sympathy for the youg man. Israel has chosen to fight wars of choice and sacrificed their young people under false pretenses. Now that those kids have paid the price Israel, like many countries, shrugs and turns it’s back on them.

      I can’t feel sympathy for the state or the people as a while. They waged wars of choice and aggression. As they are a democracy they have elected those governments that made those decisions for political gain. It wasn’t a one or two time PM bt a continuous string of war mongers. The price is theirs amd should be theirs alone no matter how much they try to make others pay for their beligerency.

    • Lazarus
      Lazarus
      November 29, 2015, 3:38 am

      This soldier is suffering from spirit attachment of the 40 +/- people that he killed. Because the people that died were under severe stress in the tragedy, their spirits did not know where to go and were not guided to a safe place in the Astral. These spirits, of course, will be severely angry at the soldier and consequently the nightmares (when the soldier’s waking consciousness is not overriding the attached spirits.)
      This soldier will also likely have many past lives as a soldier with lots of death and destruction at his hand and also done to him and many, many layers of attached spirits.
      The solution is, of course, to stop the wars and bring peace and reconciliation to Palestine. In the shorter term for this soldier, the solution could be to gently remove the attached spirits and get them to a safe place in the Astral. This can be done with the help of Master spirits who can guide the attaching spirits to a safe place and unwind the karmic cords between the soldier and the ones that he killed. It requires that the soldier understand what he has done and take responsibility for his actions and to be sincere. It would take much too long to describe the actual methods, but some good background info can be found in Dr. Brian Weiss “Many Lives, Many Masters”. Dr. Weiss conducts seminars in Past Life Regression, although I have not taken his courses and therefore cannot recommend them directly. Also the first 25 pages or so of Introduction in “Thirty Years Among The Dead” by Dr. Carl Wickland, (accessible on an internet search) where Dr. Wickland and his wife were able to help many patients relieve themselves of significant spirit attachment and regain good health with the direction and help of highly skilled Spirits.
      Zoloft and many like drugs do not deal with the real issues and are not cures. More war against his own tribe is also not a cure but again creates more death and destruction and continues the negative karmic cycle.
      Peace,
      Lazarus

    • annie
      annie
      November 29, 2015, 11:25 am

      here are several references to “clear as wine” operation december 20th 2007 (google translate)

      http://golani.co.il/show_item.asp?levelId=60844&itemId=15373

      and here: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=iw&u=http://news.walla.co.il/item/1271851&prev=search

      The ceremony was attended by Commander of the Northern Command, Major General Gadi Eisenkot, the Golani Brigade commander, Col. Tamir, knowing, commander of the Gaza Division, Brigadier General Moshe (Chico) Tamir and other senior officials, were awarded 51 battalion fighters and officers citations personal operation activities “as clear as wine” in December 2007 in refugee camp in central Gaza Gregorian. Galant medal was also awarded the deputy Shimon Siso, commander of a battalion of point 51 of the medal awarded Gaza Division Commander Company Commander, Captain Yair wonders.

      Galant in his speech praised the activities of infantry and said that despite the entry of the division of current activity was accompanied by First difficulties, the division was able to develop skills in fighting in Gaza has reached a high level of interoperability. He said “51 battalion commander led his troops boldly do things that at first was thought could not be done at all.

    • Lillian Rosengarten
      Lillian Rosengarten
      November 30, 2015, 12:30 pm

      He is angry and has a right to be. Who wouldn’t be messed up bombing innocent people? He did not seem the least confused . He had courage. Israel is a disgrace.

  3. John O
    John O
    November 28, 2015, 12:40 pm

    Strange Meeting
    BY WILFRED OWEN

    It seemed that out of battle I escaped
    Down some profound dull tunnel, long since scooped
    Through granites which titanic wars had groined.

    Yet also there encumbered sleepers groaned,
    Too fast in thought or death to be bestirred.
    Then, as I probed them, one sprang up, and stared
    With piteous recognition in fixed eyes,
    Lifting distressful hands, as if to bless.
    And by his smile, I knew that sullen hall,—
    By his dead smile I knew we stood in Hell.

    With a thousand fears that vision’s face was grained;
    Yet no blood reached there from the upper ground,
    And no guns thumped, or down the flues made moan.
    “Strange friend,” I said, “here is no cause to mourn.”
    “None,” said that other, “save the undone years,
    The hopelessness. Whatever hope is yours,
    Was my life also; I went hunting wild
    After the wildest beauty in the world,
    Which lies not calm in eyes, or braided hair,
    But mocks the steady running of the hour,
    And if it grieves, grieves richlier than here.
    For by my glee might many men have laughed,
    And of my weeping something had been left,
    Which must die now. I mean the truth untold,
    The pity of war, the pity war distilled.
    Now men will go content with what we spoiled.
    Or, discontent, boil bloody, and be spilled.
    They will be swift with swiftness of the tigress.
    None will break ranks, though nations trek from progress.
    Courage was mine, and I had mystery;
    Wisdom was mine, and I had mastery:
    To miss the march of this retreating world
    Into vain citadels that are not walled.
    Then, when much blood had clogged their chariot-wheels,
    I would go up and wash them from sweet wells,
    Even with truths that lie too deep for taint.
    I would have poured my spirit without stint
    But not through wounds; not on the cess of war.
    Foreheads of men have bled where no wounds were.

    “I am the enemy you killed, my friend.
    I knew you in this dark: for so you frowned
    Yesterday through me as you jabbed and killed.
    I parried; but my hands were loath and cold.
    Let us sleep now. . . .”

    • a blah chick
      a blah chick
      November 28, 2015, 1:39 pm

      He got killed a week before the armistice. I don’t think many of the War Poets, with the exception of Sassoon, survived WWI.

      • John O
        John O
        November 28, 2015, 2:46 pm

        I’ve known this poem for a long time, both from studying it at uni, and from Banjamin Britten’s musical setting in his War requiem. Until today, I hadn’t seen it as a description of PTSD (or neurasthenia/shell shock, as it was known in Owen’s time). “Foreheads of men have bled where no wounds were.” Indeed.

  4. amigo
    amigo
    November 28, 2015, 1:48 pm

    slightly off topic .

    Nietanyahu,s Brother in law says the PM is against a 2SS.

    http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Report-PMs-brother-in-law-says-Netanyahu-against-Palestinian-state-435625

    “Asked by Al-Jazeera if Netanyahu was sincere in past pledges to the US and European governments who have pressured Israel for years to come to negotiated settlement, Ben-Artzi said: ” My feeling is that he made a maneuver, some kind of tactic: ‘I will say that I agree, but I will act against it,'” and added “I don’t think it’s a good move, although it’s regarded as sophisticated; but I have told him several times, ‘You have to be sincere,’ and I believe, and I know that in his heart and in his mind, he is against the Palestinian state.”

    “[Netanyahu] sets so many conditions that it makes it impossible, practically speaking. So it’s not really lying; he is saying, ‘I’m in favor.’ For example: ‘I’m in favor of flying in the air, but on condition that you give me a plane. You are not going to give me a plane, and so I won’t fly in the air.’ Something like this,” he said.” j post

  5. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 28, 2015, 2:19 pm

    Watched and felt no pity I am afraid. Measure this supposed PTSD trauma against the thousands of civilians and over a thousand innocent children killed by him and his fellow Zionist zombies in Gaza with their their devastated families left to mourn and suffering mass scale real PTSD his “plight ” is as nothing.

    • Froggy
      Froggy
      November 29, 2015, 6:13 am

      Ossinev, I agree with you.

      Let us not lose sight of just which people are the victims.

  6. niass2
    niass2
    November 28, 2015, 2:34 pm

    I like this video,and feel for the human whose life has been destroyed by Isreali idiocy. And in the middle I think, what about the Palestinians? I think a few of them might have been injured during whatever they were talking about. I think I read about that in my almanac.

    Anyhow, As a jewish angry neo-Normal person I wanted to act the same way at Thanksgiving and tell the Zio Supremacists at my table to ^%^^ themselves. . But this year I didn’t. I had the weird sense that they knew and I knew that I had been right all along. The argument wasn’t worth having, and I no longer drink!! They know they are the strange dual loyalty weird ones in the room when it comes to this far off land called Palestine that they call madagascar, I meant Isreal. This video shows what war does. Down the street people are doing the same thing, some are proud of it, some are in pain, some have recovered, because today is a day like every other day that’s ever been. I am not exactly a fan of Hezbollah, I prefer the Grateful Dead. But I do like reminding my loved ones of who won the 2006 event. Anyways hopefully that boy will get some Zoloft soon. And keep him away from alcohol. Some weed might do him some good. I am sure he doesn’t exist for good reason, given the fact that was a war rife with war crimes and the hotels in Brussels need additional guests. calling it a war is weird actually, it was more like when my son decides he wants to attack an ant pile. Attacking innocent people is a crime not a war. And as far as having no pity, whatever, its up to each of us to know that, the worst are the veterans around here who act like their service in Vietnam was fun, such as Jon (Put me back in the hotel now” McCain.

    • Pixel
      Pixel
      November 30, 2015, 12:07 am

      @niass2

      I had the weird sense that they knew and I knew that I had been right all along.

      Great line. Lyrical.

  7. Jackdaw
    Jackdaw
    November 28, 2015, 3:52 pm

    This ex soldier has been severely traumatized and now has emotional problems.

    That Mondoweiss uses him for political currency is loathsome beyond belief.

    But oddly, I’m not surprised.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      November 28, 2015, 4:24 pm

      At least he suffers from being a murderer and would like to make amends. A murderer, but at least with some humanity left.
      You, on the other hand…

    • John O
      John O
      November 28, 2015, 4:29 pm

      So who’s gonna tell him? You, big man?

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        November 29, 2015, 11:45 am

        Tell everybody where I live again, John. Knowledge is power!

    • can of worms
      can of worms
      November 28, 2015, 5:58 pm

      @ Jackdaw: “This ex soldier has been severely traumatized and now has emotional problems.”

      His emotional problems are the silver platter on which your racial hypersegregation is served you.

      He says he has “killed more than 40 people” “for you” and “murdered” “for you”. You might, in turn, help him with the tens of thousands that he and his mom spent on psychiatric care.

    • a blah chick
      a blah chick
      November 28, 2015, 7:05 pm

      So you find it “loathsome” that Mondo features this video but you have nothing but praise for the government that sent him out to kill and then does not provide him mental health care.

      And why is he traumatized? Because he was sent to kill innocents and he can’t deal with it. THAT’S pretty loathsome if you ask me.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        November 29, 2015, 12:23 am

        @blah

        “Because he was sent to kill innocents and he can’t deal with it ”

        He testified that he and his unit were attacked by a suicide bomber, by 4 or more fighters armed with RPG’s (rocket propelled grenades), et al.

        Are these the ‘innocents’ you’re referring to?

        And BTW. I never heard of Operation Clear Wine. Exactly where and when did Operation Clear Wine take place? In 2007?

      • can of worms
        can of worms
        November 29, 2015, 10:08 am

        Jackdaw: @ “I never heard of Operation Clear as Wine. Exactly where and when did Operation Clear as Wine take place?” –

        According to our records, “Operation Clear as Wine” took place right after Operation White as Milk and Operation Brown as Natives, but right before Operation Cheap as Blood and Operation Easy as Pie.

      • can of worms
        can of worms
        November 30, 2015, 12:01 am

        Just to be clear (Clear as Wine!), all this rage is really against a bureaucratic system which kept him going from one authority to the next for years. It’s not that he didn’t get psychiatric treatment – in fact, both he and his mom got psychiatric care on a private basis – and are now asking for financial recompense and welfare rights.

        This matters because of the cynicism that has to be deployed in talking about the 40 men he killed and “murdered” [!]. Clothed as a stirring of his conscience, it’s a clever manipulation of the commissioners, some of whom he addresses directly and personally. He’s a charismatic speaker and if you watch closely he’s in fine form (what a waste.)

        That’s why it matters that he’s the Salt of the Earth. First, otherwise he wouldn’t have a voice. And, second, he is at home with authority. And he begins by presenting himself as an ambitious soldier from an elite military family that contributed to the whole wonderful zionist enterprise.

        As far as empathy for the sufferers of PTSD, he might have referred to Gaza back in 2007 in the very leadup to ‘operation cheap as wine’. This was already the state of trauma in Gaza back then—
        “99.4 per cent of the children we studied suffer trauma. Once you look at the rates of exposure to trauma you see why: 99.2 per cent of their homes were bombarded; 97.5 per cent were exposed to tear gas; 96.6 per cent witnessed shootings; 95.8 per cent witnessed bombardment and funerals; almost a quarter saw family members injured or killed.”
        (from: “The Genocide Continues: John Pilger on Terror and Starvation in Gaza” January 22 2007)
        http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2007/01/pilger-genocide-gaza-palestine

        btw, ‘Clear as Wine’ was staged with particular sadism on Eid al-Adha, just like the ‘Protective Shield’ massacre was planned with sadism and zest to be in Ramadhan and Eid.

    • Palikari
      Palikari
      November 28, 2015, 9:06 pm

      @Jackdaw

      I couldn’t agree with you more.

      Chapeau !

    • eljay
      eljay
      November 28, 2015, 10:07 pm

      || Jackdaw: This ex soldier has been severely traumatized and now has emotional problems.

      That Mondoweiss uses him for political currency is loathsome beyond belief. … ||

      Says the Zio-supremacist hypocrite whose hateful and immoral collective has been using the Holocaust and its survivors for political currency for 70 years.

      Yes, you Zio-supremacists truly are loathsome beyond belief.

    • CigarGod
      CigarGod
      November 29, 2015, 9:37 am

      “Oddly”, Oddbawl?

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      November 29, 2015, 4:42 pm

      Jackdaw…..take a reality check….any suffering by members of the IDF was caused in battles of their own choice. Illegal battles to acquire territory illegally and to illegally dispossess the Palestinian people. I have absolutely no sympathy for Israeli’s engaged in such activities. What is loathesome is Israeli actions against defenceless Palestinians. What is loathsome is the illegal extra judicial killings(murder) of Palestinians. At some point, at some stage, it is inevitable that Israel will pay for its crimes and that time is moving ever closer.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 29, 2015, 5:43 pm

        “This man was driven mad by the injustice and cruelty that is Zionism”

        Can’t anybody explain to him that disability ratings are not predicated on military achievements, in spite of what the unit chaplain and CO told him at the time?

  8. kalithea
    kalithea
    November 28, 2015, 4:23 pm

    I want to feel pity for this man, but I can’t, because he willingly went out with an occupation army on a mission to murder the legitimate occupants of land stolen from them and now these people are like fish in a barrel next door relegated to a concentration camp where children are continuously terrorized by this brutal occupier that this man served.

    This man was driven mad by the injustice and cruelty that is Zionism an ideology he willingly, knowingly embraced and this is the consequences as it should be, if there were real justice, for all who embrace Zionism. With Zionism the insane become sane when they wake up to the horror that is Zionism and are viewed as insane by their fellow Zionists in the room. This is the affliction of a man who suddenly grew a conscience and can no longer live with himself, with what he did and with those around him who are not yet cured.

    There is no cure for him; because he waited too long and did too much in service of Zionism. There is no cure for awareness. My advice to him would be: take their money and get out of that country! Go live elsewhere with normal people and maybe he’ll find peace that way.

    If every Zionist suffered this traumatic awareness; it would be the end of Zionism but they checked their conscience at the door upon entering Israel.

  9. Kay24
    Kay24
    November 28, 2015, 5:07 pm

    The blame falls squarely on those ruthless leaders who keep sending young people into unnecessary wars, while they, and their families sit in comfort and allow these people into situations that result in death, injuries, and mental issues. We have much more Americans in this situation, who have been ignored by the war criminals who send them there. Bush and Cheney obviously do not show any remorse for sending our kids for wars they dragged us into, with fake intelligence and tall tales of WMD’s. Netanyahu is one of these ruthless scumbags, who seem to prefer the status quo, sends their deadly precision bombs into homes, and whine like a sissy when a rocket is sent back. Bush, Cheney, nor Netanyahu, gives a shet about the lives of those they send to attack helpless people, as long as the job gets done.

  10. Citizen
    Citizen
    November 28, 2015, 7:55 pm

    Sample reaction to tweeting this MW article:

    Martin Dunn ‏@dunn_martin 3h3 hours ago Sydney, New South Wales
    @kppotatoes @ShareThis @RamseyFrank @ChanaOpert @therealroseanne Mondoweiss sole mission to demonize Israel. If your ‘truth’ heaven help you
    1 retweet 2 likes
    Reply Retweet 1
    Like 2
    More
    Roseanne Barr ‏@therealroseanne 2h2 hours ago
    @dunn_martin @kppotatoes @ShareThis @RamseyFrank @ChanaOpert mondo Weiss=German Dutch bigoted bs

  11. MaxNarr
    MaxNarr
    November 28, 2015, 8:45 pm

    Breaking the Silence has already been debunked. Next.

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 28, 2015, 9:46 pm

      ‘debunked’ by who and what?

      • MaxNarr
        MaxNarr
        November 28, 2015, 10:24 pm

        Sorry @talknic, until you unequivocally condemn attacks against civilians as you have condoned before I will not have any discourse with you. “Resistance” may not be violent.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 29, 2015, 5:35 pm

        What a Narr. Resistance to occupation is by definition violent. In this case, it’s no different from the resistance to Nazi occupation, against an occupier no less violent than the Nazi occupier.

      • amigo
        amigo
        November 29, 2015, 5:39 pm

        “Sorry @talknic, until you unequivocally condemn attacks against civilians as you have condoned before I will not have any discourse with you. ” Max Narr

        How very netanyahooish of you.Say what I wish to hear or I will not talk to you.How very adolescent.

        “Netanyahu Suspends Contact With EU Over Israel-Palestinian Peace Process
        read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.689050

        Is it any wonder Zionism is f—-d.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 29, 2015, 5:48 pm

        “I will not have any discourse with you” “MaxNarr”

        Well, I gotta give you this, Maxilla, you are consistent. I haven’t seen you “have any discourse” since you appeared.

      • MaxNarr
        MaxNarr
        November 29, 2015, 6:41 pm

        @Amigo, all ties should be severed with Europe including security and trade ties until they rescind their antisemitic recommendations to label Jewish produce from Judea and Samaria.

      • Kris
        Kris
        November 29, 2015, 7:33 pm

        @Max Narr: ““Resistance” may not be violent.”

        That’s why the French Resistance in WWII did nothing but ring doorbells and hand out leaflets, and hold hunger strikes, right?

        Oh, wait:

        Résistance cells were small groups of armed men and women (called the Maquis in rural areas),[2][3] who, in addition to their guerrilla warfare activities, were also publishers of underground newspapers, providers of first-hand intelligence information, and maintainers of escape networks that helped Allied soldiers and airmen trapped behind enemy lines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Resistance

        Got that? “Small groups of armed men and women….guerrilla warfare activities…”

        Why should the Palestinians just stand around holding protest signs, waiting to be killed by the fascist Israeli Jews?

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 29, 2015, 8:03 pm

        @ MaxNarr “until you unequivocally condemn attacks against civilians as you have condoned before”

        False accusations are against the most basic of Judaism’s tenets. Perhaps you can quote this alleged condoning attacks against civilians. Otherwise you’ll be seen as just another untrustworthy, pathetic, liar

      • MaxNarr
        MaxNarr
        November 29, 2015, 8:22 pm

        @talknic will you condemn the two young girls that stabbed a Palestinian man with scissors thinking he was a Jew? What about the boy that stabbed the elderly Jewish woman in the back? What about the murderers of Tali Hatuel? The murderers of the Fogel Family? The murderers of Adele Biton by rock throwing?

        Yes or No?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 30, 2015, 12:31 am

        The Narr got it right! Congratulations.
        Of course all ties should be severed between the Zionist entity and Europe (and the rest of the world.)

      • Kris
        Kris
        November 30, 2015, 12:55 am

        Let’s get back to the topic of this little subthread. MaxNarr said “Breaking the Silence has already been debunked. Next.”

        talknic asked what everyone who read MaxNarr’s statement must have wondered: “‘debunked’ by who and what?”

        And then MaxNarr changed the subject, and we followed him, as if we were at a dinner party. But since we are here to learn from each other, not to make chit chat, let’s get back on topic.

        So, what is the answer, MaxNarr? Please provide links to support your assertion that Breaking the Silence “has already been debunked.”

        Here’s an interesting article about an attempt to discredit Breaking the Silence: http://972mag.com/how-i-became-involved-with-breaking-the-silence/106477/

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 30, 2015, 2:23 am

        @ MaxNarr

        ” … will you condemn … etc etc etc … “

        I’ll do more than that Max.

        I condemn all forms of terrorism, murder and any other harmful crime by any individual, group, organization or state and;
        I condemn any government, individual or organization who purposefully encourages the illegally settlement of territories held under occupation thereby purposefully endangering citizens by using them to create illegal facts on the ground.

        Armed Israelis and those serving the Israeli military in non-Israeli territories occupied by Israel are not civilians. They’re a valid military targets

        ” What about the boy that stabbed the elderly Jewish woman in the back? “

        It doesn’t add up. Why were the people ahead of him joining in the run? What was he running from and how did he miraculously know the woman was Jewish from behind?

        The Hatuel, Fogel and Biton families were all illegal settlers encouraged and assisted in illegally settling in non-Israeli territories by the Israeli Government.

        Will you condemn the putrid Government, organizations and investors who purposefully assisted in putting them in harms way despite Israel having signed a convention specifically adopted to protect all civilians including those of the Occupying Power from the violent consequences expected when a state occupies another people and their territory

        Will you now provide a quote for your false accusation and support your statement or be seen as just another pathetic liar for an illegal cause

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        December 1, 2015, 6:54 am

        Any “dialogue” with MaxNarr and his/her buddies involves the troll throwing false information every which way and loosely too and then the demand (must be hard carrying those stones around) you answer his BS with a yes or no. Mondoweiss isn’t Hebron or any occupied territory and you aren’t the slob with a shotgun. Your demands and your lies have no weight here. Um, try Arutz Sheva – you’ll love it.

      • kalithea
        kalithea
        December 1, 2015, 11:00 pm

        @MaxNarr

        before I will not have any discourse with you. “Resistance” may not be violent.

        Just like Iike Irgun and Lehi, riiiiiiight????

    • diasp0ra
      diasp0ra
      November 29, 2015, 8:21 am

      Explanation?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        November 29, 2015, 5:40 pm

        “Explanation?”

        I think MaxNarr is contrasting Zionist pacifism, the absolute refusal of the Zionists to arm themselves, and the Zionist principle of never taking anything by force, with the Palestinian resistance to Israel’s benevolent occupation.

        Another words, “diasp0ra”, he’s cuckoo.

    • MaxNarr
      MaxNarr
      November 30, 2015, 3:39 am

      @moderators, I believe it is important to let this response past your moderation as it does not violate the comments policy and it will explain why I will not dialog with those who condone murder.

      @talknic you justify the stabbing to death of children and the murder of a pregnant woman because you believe her and their right to live as a Jews in her homeland is “illegal” I will never converse with you on this website again. Any time you comment on any of my postings I will remind you of your remorseless justification of the brutal murder of innocents. Shame.

      • talknic
        talknic
        November 30, 2015, 9:10 am

        @ MaxNarr “talknic you justify the stabbing to death of children and the murder of …”

        Quote me … thx

        ” … because you believe her and their right to live as a Jews in her homeland is “illegal” “

        Israelis, Jewish or non-Jewish don’t have any right to live in any non-Israeli territory without proper citizenship of that territory. Meanwhile, they’re prohibited by GC IV from living in occupied territories.

        “I will never converse with you on this website again”

        OK

        “Any time you comment on any of my postings I will remind you ..”

        Contradicting yourself already?

        ” .. of your remorseless ustification of the brutal murder of innocents”

        Repeating a false accusation is not evidence Max. Best quote me verbatim thx

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        November 30, 2015, 12:04 pm

        @moderators: You are not bound by the rules published for acceptation of comments. We know what you censor and not, according to your whim. Not a complaint, just indicating that some provocative comments don’t even have example or exhibition value, like those of the Narr.

        @den Narr: No Zionist invader anywhere in all of Palestine after 1897 is legitimate in any way or wise, and the status of the local born will one day depend on their accepting the loyal citizenship of Palestine. Put in in your pipe and smoke it.

      • MaxNarr
        MaxNarr
        November 30, 2015, 12:16 pm

        @ All Mondoweiss commenters. This is the fight for the heart and soul of those who oppose Israel. Are you so far gone that you will justify the stabbing of a baby? The murder of a pregnant woman? You don’t need to respond to my comment but think about it. @Annie @Phil @CERSC

        Do you have one shred of remorse? Some slight nagging feeling that something is wrong when you justify the murder of innocent men, women, and children?

        Ok, in your opinion, it is “illegal” for Jews to live in parts of their homeland, this is under heavy dispute. At the very least recognize that your belief isn’t unanimous in legal opinion and should never justify the brutal murder of innocent civilians.

      • eljay
        eljay
        November 30, 2015, 1:09 pm

        || MaxNarr: @ All Mondoweiss commenters. This is the fight for the heart and soul of those who oppose Israel. … ||

        That’s a good “drama queen” opening. Very “hophmi”.

        || … Are you so far gone that you will justify the stabbing of a baby? The murder of a pregnant woman? … ||

        I condemn the stabbing of a baby and the murder of a pregnant woman. The perpetrators should be held accountable for their crimes.

        || … Do you have one shred of remorse? Some slight nagging feeling that something is wrong when you justify the murder of innocent men, women, and children? … ||

        Good question. Do you? Because Zio-supremacists just like you not only justify the murder of innocent men, women and children – you commit the murder of innocent men, women and children. And you’ve been committing and justifying these crimes – along with numerous other (war) crimes – for decades.

        || … Ok, in your opinion, it is “illegal” for Jews to live in parts of their homeland, this is under heavy dispute. … ||

        It’s unjust and immoral for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews to steal, occupy and colonize land outside of Israel’s / Partition borders. (It’s unjust and immoral for them to do it within Israel’s / Partition borders, too, but that’s another story.) But as far as I know it’s not illegal for the Jewish citizens of homelands around the world to live in those respective homelands.

        So, when are you going to provide talknic with the quote(s) he has requested?

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        November 30, 2015, 1:43 pm

        Max Narr forgrts that the West Bank does not fall within Israeli declared Sovereign Territory,therefore, it cannot be viewed is any way as Jewish Homeland. The Jewish Homeland is that area Israel accepted and declared as defined by the UN Partition Plan. Settling in Occupied Territory is violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention. Civilians of an Occupier are forbidden to be transferred into Occupied Territory. Military Personnel are the only authorised people the occupier can place in Occupied Territory. Given settlers carry arms and regularly attack Palestinians it therefore points to settlers being an extension of the Military and therefore valid Military Targets. Settlers often work supported by the Military therefore this is proof of their inclusion in Military operations. They are by definition valid military targets.

      • Kris
        Kris
        November 30, 2015, 1:44 pm

        MaxNarr, try to concentrate. You still need to address this:

        MaxNarr, on November 28, 2015, at 8:45 pm, wrote: “Breaking the Silence has already been debunked. Next.”

        talknic, on November 28, 2015, at 9:46 pm, replied: “‘debunked’ by who and what?”

        And then, MaxNarr, instead of answering talknic’s reasonable question, you hijacked the discussion into who does and doesn’t condone violence.

        Please show some respect to your fellow commenters, and provide links to information showing that Break the Silence has been “debunked.” I can’t find any.

        Maybe you are forgetful, or maybe you just trade in lies and sleight of hand, like other Zionists. Which is it?

      • Bumblebye
        Bumblebye
        November 30, 2015, 3:38 pm

        @MaxNarr

        the article is about one of Israel’s paid multiple spree killers who can’t get the state to pay for his treatment. You are whining on & on about deaths which occurred before the current crisis and have been dealt with either by the military injustice system or at the point of a gun.

        Suggest you disappear down the hole you were sent down a few years ago – since it’s obvious you picked a simple variation of your old moniker.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        November 30, 2015, 4:19 pm

        @Narcissist

        “Ok, in your opinion, it is “illegal” for Jews to live in parts of their homeland, this is under heavy dispute. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/killed-israeli-veteran#comment-157789

        I haven’t seen anyone say it is illegal for Jews to live anywhere. What has been said is that Israelis, regardless of ethnicity havce no right to settle outside their country. That Israelis are doing just that is not in dispute. The territories haven been ruled as outside of Israel by the UNSC, the ICC, The Israeli Court of High Justice. It was even recognized as such by the Israeli government in official documents.

        Name one successful, or pending, legal action to challenge these rulings.

        There is no dispute whatsoever.

        The only people justifying the death of old people, women and babies are you and your zionist cohorts.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        December 1, 2015, 7:10 am

        “Shame”. Don’t use big words you don’t know the meaning of.

        Newsflash – you don’t “converse” here, you only make demands and false accusations. No one justifies murder. However, you demand we sit shiva. Do it yourself.

      • kalithea
        kalithea
        December 1, 2015, 11:08 pm

        Oh puh-leez, you Zionists slaughtered thousands of innocent women and children over the years! Quit with the hypocritical, double-standard attack on talknic already!

  12. Palikari
    Palikari
    November 28, 2015, 8:56 pm

    You’re cherry-picking the excerpts you want in order to create a narrative that fits with your prejudices.

    He was complaining to the Knesset State Control Committee of the lack treatment by Defense Ministry’s Rehabilitation Branch.

    This is what he actually said:

    “You have abandoned me. Why aren’t you treating me? I killed more than 40 people for you with these hands. Nine years have passed and I have yet to receive even one percent disability,” he said to the Defense Ministry`s representatives at the meeting. “My mother is forced to pay for everything. She paid for my treatment at the hospital. I scream and urinate at night because of post trauma. You have all failed; the entire system. How is that a terrorist receives treatment and I don’t?”

    https://www.knesset.gov.il/spokesman/eng/PR_eng.asp?PRID=11761

    • talknic
      talknic
      November 28, 2015, 9:45 pm

      Very illuminating Palikari

      IOW he’s been used as a proxy & cannon fodder for the Zionist cause and they don’t give a f&*k!

    • oldgeezer
      oldgeezer
      November 28, 2015, 11:28 pm

      Your prejudices are showing palikari. You actually seem to think tossing the extra in somehows casts Israel in a better light?

      Regardless your concern is directed at how the state os perceived and not a whit of sympathy for the suffering individual. It’s all brotherhood in the tribal tent.

      I used to think your lack of humanity was directed at the Palestinians. I so misjuddged the shallowness.

      • Marnie
        Marnie
        November 29, 2015, 12:06 am

        Palikari represents the part of society that actually eats it’s own: This soldier is probably seen as a weak in the knees crybaby; in other words, you got blood on your hands, that’s your job, now STFU. As far as getting any additional benefits? For what? You have nightmares and wet your bed? Go join the enemy you faggot! Go live in Gaza if you feel so bad! You aren’t getting another agarot from us! I don’t have much sympathy for this soldier or his mother. He killed civilian during his days with the IOF. He and his mother want benefits for him – he did what he was told and can’t live with it and wants to be compensated, which is exactly why he won’t be. He should have refused, but maybe he didn’t want to, maybe he had to prove his worth to his warrior family. His family has turned him out – embarrassed, angered or ashamed of him, who knows. Now it seems they just want monetary compensation. Asking for more money, no matter how much it is deserved, is like rolling a boulder up a mountain. I know a man who has congenitally withered/shortened arms that don’t function well and was losing his sight. He had gone to Bituach Leumi (social services/welfare) to see if he was eligible for additional benefits and was told by the young woman working there that if he wanted more money he should get a job.

        Jews that are Ethiopians, older Russian immigrants, soldiers with mental/physical disabilities and single mothers among others, are those citizens that are despised and disenfranchised by the state.

    • joer
      joer
      November 29, 2015, 12:31 pm

      Palikari-
      The context of this video actually underscores the moral bankruptcy of the results of the Zionist endeavor. The perceived injustice being debated is not the fact that this man massacred his neighbors, but that the government isn’t willing to help his family alleviate the resulting trauma. It reminds me of the disputes that would arise during slavery when who would incur the cost of a slave if one was killed by someone other than the owner.
      I would actually say if his family bought into the idea of reviving the ancient semi-mythical kingdom of Israel, and moved to Palestine to act like biblical warriors, then his family is largely responsible for the trauma resulting from chasing that fantasy.

      • annie
        annie
        November 29, 2015, 11:54 pm

        joer, i agree. and i feel not an ounce of pity for the man.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      November 29, 2015, 5:38 pm

      If you translated correctly, that guy should be taken out and Weiss may want to update his paper.

    • can of worms
      can of worms
      November 30, 2015, 12:35 am

      @ Palikari “You’re cherry-picking the excerpts you want in order to create a narrative that fits with your prejudices… ‘How is that a terrorist receives treatment and I don’t?’ , &c.”

      I actually agree with you Palikari. All the talk of the 40 men murdered reveals itself as some cynical manipulation of the audience when juxtaposed to the constant references to “terrorists” that are supposedly being given better treatment.

      The sheer banality of it all.

  13. Xpat
    Xpat
    November 28, 2015, 11:33 pm

    @blah chick
    Yes, “clear as wine” is a preposterous name. The phrase is taken from tbe opening of Israel’s unofficial anthem (and colonialist fantasy) “Jerusalem of Gold”. It’s the name of an Israeli attack on Gaza in Decrmber 2007.

    I have to agree that this video exposes the usual neglect of these men who were broken on the battlefield. Its the same in the US with all the VA dysfunction. I imagine its the same other countries too. There is nothing to indicate this wouldnt have played out the same in any other war or military conflict. It doesnt appear to be directly related to the occupation, except in the sense of the neverending waste of human life and human potential.

    • Jackdaw
      Jackdaw
      November 30, 2015, 2:50 am

      I don’t see where Mr. Razon’s injuries jibe with ‘Operation Clear Wine’.

      https://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-forces-kill-20-gaza-during-eid-attacks/3300

      Clearly Mr. Razon has been injured by his wartime experiences. I’m not sure how and when.

      Mondoweiss use of this video is a new low.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        November 30, 2015, 2:05 pm

        Jackdaw….it is the responsibility of the IOF and the Israeli Government to ensure the physical wellbeing of its troops used in pursuit of an illegal and criminal enterprise but portrayed by the Israeli Government as legitimate. I do not see you clamouring for the Israeli Government to cease putting Israeli lives unnecessarily at risk. Nor do I see you exhorting the nefariousness of Government policy in Israel. The fault for injuries such as this lies with the Military in its expedition of Government Policy. Any military service in America,England,Australia,New Zealand et al cannot discharge a member until they are one hundred percent fully fit. They have to take responsibility for any injuries incurred during the performance of the military members duty and ensure they are properly taken care of. I do not see you making any noise about the Israeli Government or its Military Arm falling down in its obligations and duty. Surely that is the lowest of the low and not something one would expect from the Most Moral Army or the Only Democratic Nation in the Middle East. Your argument is plainly hollow and without merit.

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw
        November 30, 2015, 3:48 pm

        @inbound

        I fully agree with you that the State of Israel is 100% responsible for the care and treatment of it’s combat veterans, whatever their injuries.

        That said, I find it difficult to accept everything Razon testified to at the hearing. There must be more to this story, but Mondoweiss doesn’t care about the truth, much less Mr Razon and his recovery.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        December 2, 2015, 1:10 am

        Jackdaw….why be so concerned about the truth now. Israel has never been honest in its entire history. Never kept an agreement and never complied with democratically arrived at Resolutions. It is a bit rich to cry dishonesty. I think what irks you more is hearing the truth. Difficult pill for Israeli’s to swallow.

  14. can of worms
    can of worms
    November 29, 2015, 3:39 am

    Ja, part of the tension I’m gathering here is that these here ain’t just soldiers– they’re fashioned over and over again as “The Salt of the Earth”, “the best sons of the State of Israel”, the future’s political leaders, tomorrow’s Prime Ministers, alpha males, representatives for all mankind. It makes you wonder a little what treatment the lesser Israelis get, though: the ones who aren’t quite as manly white, prime males, salt of earth Ashkenazis in elite units having military families (what was that he says about his family?)

    Now, this particular Salt of the Earth, he’s also a fine public talker, with a seasoned command of the audience — say what you will– he’s fierce, knows what he wants, and he knows what are his just deserts.

    Now considering all that, one would be forgiven to think that the Bureaucrats would rush to give him the reparations, at least so as to make him stop screaming about the 40 men he “murdered” for them, not exactly knowing “why”.

    Why, why why? Because. It didn’t matter who was killed. It’s just the why of it that’s a little irksome. God, “Certainly normalcy is what every human feels is their just deserts!” (per yonah fredman).

    It’s probably not a matter of money, he’s only asking for tens of thousands and Israel has a neverending supply. Rather, it’s a contest of power. Israel has this continual problem of giving in or not giving in to its spoiled brats. Give in to one and soon you have a whole bunch of em whining for more.

    On the contrary, be it known that israel has a thriving, lucrative, PTSD industrial complex, it has sent Trauma delegations to “France, Japan, Haiti, the Philippines and several other countries.” They have “Resilience Centers” that “provide psycho-social care to the 60,000 residents living in the Gaza region” and “PTSD immunization” programs. Salt-of-the-Earth professionals from up in Tel Aviv get called in to the development towns to give them their pre-emptive psychiatric care. It helps prevent complaints by those human shields living in those Jewish-only towns of being “abandoned” by the Jewish State, “without protection”. Every 2 years the govt also stages huge spectacles for them, they say.

    The members of the panel sigh. But to think, he could have had a place in the Knesset.

  15. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 29, 2015, 12:33 pm

    I recommend that he approaches Congress in the good old US of A.I am sure that after 100 standing ovations they would vote to give him a lot more ( courtesy of US taxpayers ) than he is asking for from the GOI. Hell come to think of it Congress might even be prompted into giving every single Israeli serviceman a supplementary wage ( paid for by US taxpayers ). Hell come to think of it they might be prompted to give US Congressional bravery awards to any Israeli soldier injured in action against Arab savages. Hell come to think of it – naw better stop there the list could be endless.

    • amigo
      amigo
      November 29, 2015, 2:57 pm

      “naw better stop there the list could be endless.” ossinev

      Why not make him a dual citizen and give him a house in Florida with a pension for life and full Medicare coverage.That will only require denying a few US vets their rights.After all , he was defending the rest of the “Western ” world on the front line against terroreeesm.

      Oh , I forgot the free annual trips to his “Historical Homeland ” .That,s the correct way to treat a citizen of the USA ,s bestest bestest ally.

      • inbound39
        inbound39
        December 2, 2015, 1:18 am

        To be honest I think Israel would be better promoting it as the Hysterical Homeland rather than Historical……seems to be more amateur dramatics employed by Israeli’s than any other place in the World. Jumping up and down claiming victimhood because the people they persecute and abuse dare to fight back. Israeli’s always manage a hysterical response.

  16. amigo
    amigo
    November 29, 2015, 1:32 pm

    Has anyone ever known of a “refusnik” suffering from PTSD.

    Last year I met with two Israeli soldiers who were part of the “Breaking the silence” tour , in Dublin .During a 20 minute discussion , both told me they had killed Palestinians and regretted fully , their acts .However , they found a balance to that by bringing the facts out in the open.No PTSD for them , not even from the derision directed at them by fellow Israeli Jews .

    That option is open to all IDF personnel , if they wish to be free of ever consuming guilt.There are of course many soldiers who relish their “kills” .Take Naftali Bennet as an example.No PTSD for that vile murderer.

    “Apparently that is not the case with Economy Minister Naftali Bennett, who has said: “I’ve killed lots of Arabs in my life, and there’s no problem with that.” In other words, despite the killing he doesn’t suffer from sleeplessness or nightmares. Not the horrified look of a victim, not facial distortions of pain or astonishment, not a final tic followed by absolute quiet – none of those things disturb the minister’s sleep.

    Even if someone who was only a witness to killing does not shed a tear or at least get upset, then according to all the signs he is almost certainly suffering from shock. Is Naftali Bennett in shock? Are his comparison of Arabs to shrapnel in the butt, his description of the economic boycott of the settlements as a terror attack, his call to boycott the world, all signs of shock? Last Wednesday the signs of shock were clearly evident on the man: Bennett proudly posted on his Facebook page a photograph of the lead editorial of Haaretz, which was called “A nuisance named Naftali Bennett.”

    If it weren’t tragic, it would be good material for irony. Maybe a chief Israel Defense Forces education officer will ask Bennett to meet with new recruits in order to imbue them with a spirit of battle and explain to them how easy it is to kill Arabs. And maybe those meetings will be entitled: “Killing an Arab – not what you thought,” with the same ease with which we inoculate against polio – “Only two drops.” The first in order to encourage death, and the second in order to encourage life
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.540964

  17. a blah chick
    a blah chick
    November 30, 2015, 7:43 am

    Jackdaw sez

    “He testified that he and his unit were attacked by a suicide bomber, by 4 or more fighters armed with RPG’s (rocket propelled grenades), et al”

    They were fighting in GAZA. I mean how dare those Palestinians defend themselves..who do they think they are!

    You got some real twisted logic there, bud.

    • Jackdaw
      Jackdaw
      December 1, 2015, 2:23 am

      @blah

      How does firing rockets at Israeli civilian targets constitute defense?

      That’s was the IDF was in Gaza in late 2007. To stop rocket attacks.

      • talknic
        talknic
        December 1, 2015, 9:52 am

        @ Jackdaw “How does firing rockets at Israeli civilian targets constitute defense?”

        Impossible to tell what an unguided rocket has been aimed at from the receiving end.

        BTW the IDF memorial site indicates more military have been targeted, injured and killed than have Israeli civilians

        “That’s was the IDF was in Gaza in late 2007. To stop rocket attacks”

        Rocket attacks are a response to the continual occupation and illegal settlement of Palestinian territories

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        December 1, 2015, 10:37 am

        In every one of Israel’s 4 ‘wars’ in the past decade, most of the many casualties inflicted by Israel have been civilians. By contrast, most of Israel’s own casualties have been militants. This, despite the fact that Israel can make use of the most sophisticated weaponry American tax-payers’ money can buy, whereas their enemies mostly have to rely on crude home-made rockets.

        So tell me please, who exactly is ‘targetting civilians’ here?

  18. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    November 30, 2015, 1:53 pm

    On the subject of the IDF suffering” trauma” – during the recent round of “terrorist” attacks in East Jerusalem and the West Bank Israeli newspapers have been regularly referring to soldiers,policemen and civilians(ie illegal heavily armed settlers) being moderately wounded. I would love to know what qualifies as “moderately wounded” in ZIOspeak. Is it a bruised ego from being terrified by a 15 year old girl armed(allegedly) with a small kitchen knife,a sharp pencil or just a funny stare? Is it bruised vocal chords from screaming “Help ! Help! I need back up !” into their radios ? Is it a a graze on the cheek caused by the multiple recoil of their rifles ? Is it one or more broken fingernails ?

    Would really love to know.

    No moderate wounds for the Palestinians of course other than those inflicted when they are dragged from the scene like butchered animals after the brave IDF or IPF officers have pumped them full of bullets at close range.

    • inbound39
      inbound39
      November 30, 2015, 2:14 pm

      Yes……most Palestinians end up irreparably dead. With their characters assassinated after death by the planting of knives and weapons by the Most Moral Army…..that is what is called a reeeaaalllllly low blow.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius
      December 1, 2015, 10:39 am

      “I would love to know what qualifies as “moderately wounded” in ZIOspeak”

      Chipped finger-nail, perhaps?

      Seriously though, I do remember reading that many of those referred to as ‘wounded’ in the July war 9 years ago were in fact suffering from what most doctors would refer to as ‘shock’ rather than being physically wounded at all. Yeah, I guess it must be schocking to find out that those you torment get to fight back now and then.

  19. SQ Debris
    SQ Debris
    November 30, 2015, 3:48 pm

    The old “Kill and Cry.” Time to set up a rusty razor blade donation campaign.

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