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‘A real Israeli doesn’t abandon his duty’

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The Refuser Solidarity Network seeks to educate Americans about Israeli refusers; and it is raising U.S. support at the end of the year. Here’s their donate page. And today they sent out by email the following compelling interview of Yasmin Yablonko by Maya Praff. (Thanks to Ofer Neiman).

Yasmin: My story’s a bit unusual I guess–but it’s not that, like–well I grew up in a very left wing house, my father actually refused in the ’70s. He didn’t refuse draft, but he refused to serve in the occupied territories. He also refused again during the Lebanon War. So I was very familiar with the idea and I grew up around that. In the ’70s it was usually like, people refused to serve the occupied territories, no one refused draft back then.

Maya: Do you think most refusers grew up in left-wing homes?

Yasmin: I think I’m a special case. But I know many refusers whose parents are not accepting or not supportive of this. So I think it’s not so left-wing as mine. I mean, left-wing in Israel doesn’t mean you have to be against the army, it doesn’t mean you have to be against going to the military. So many people grew up in, just like sort of left-wing, very, you know like liberal homes. I think most of them really got a good education, like a private education or something like that, and grew up in a really liberal environment, which allowed them to think independently and individually. And it doesn’t mean that the environment they grew up in supported them, but it does mean that they understood them.

Maya: Can you tell me about what you hope refusal will eventually accomplish?

Yasmin: Well, I can be very optimistic and say that I wish that there won’t be any wars, and the violence will stop, and everyone will refuse and all of that. But I think it’s not realistic to think about it that way, so I think that most important goals for me are to have public discourse about–to not take the recruitment and the military as granted. And to not think that [the] military and violence is the solution to everything.

I think that just questioning the fact that everyone needs to do it–it’s really hard because they take 18-year-old kids, you go straight out of school into the military, you still don’t know what you think of the world, you still haven’t seen a lot of stuff, and then you just do what you’re expected to do and it’s hard to raise criticism at this point. And also for young people to go against the mainstream is hard, so doing that is really important. I also think it can raise trust between Palestinians and Israelis. I think that to join and do stuff together and be active together and try to work together for some sort of peace, it’s really hard, at least in my eyes, I think it’s really hard to be trusted as an Israeli. If you go to the army, if you serve in the army–like draft service–and then if you still do the reserve service, it’s clear that you cannot be trusted. So I think that if you want to work together, as an Israeli with Palestinians, I think just not going to the military that is occupying them is a basic thing.

Maya: Is there a difference between opting to do national service and refusing?

Yasmin: Many people who do national service are people who use it to make themselves okay with society. Like, “Yeah what did you do in the army?” “Oh I didn’t go to the army, but I did national service, so I’m okay, I’m not a traitor.” It’s really bad for the discussion because then it falls to the same ideal of being a citizen through what you give and not because of what you get. The fact that you have to serve, and if not you’re not a good citizen, which is a discourse which I don’t really like.

Maya: Can you talk about this new coalition that you’re forming?

Yasmin: There are many organizations working in anti-militarist or pro-refusal with all kinds of populations and all kinds of points of view and all kinds of things they do. And–when I worked with the last shministim letter, I really felt it and everyone around it felt it as well–that there is not one clear point when you get support. It’s like you have to go through many people and many organizations and it’s not clear who supports who with what. And it’s really hard to sustain something long term this way because you have to have some support network, which is more stable and can help you in the long term. So the idea is first see what organizations and what activities there are already and map them and see what is existing and what is missing, and then try to connect everything together so young refusers who come and ask for support can have one person or one organization–like one face that they can go to and get everything that this network [has] to offer (which means everyone who does anything in the field [has] to offer).

Maya: Have you seen a spike in refusers since the war in 2014?

Yasmin: There were a lot of people who started to sign the letter–the 2014-15 letter that I helped with after the Gaza attack. Also, there were a lot of other letters. Not from draft service, but from reserve service, and also from a specific unit. There were four refusal letters in that year, or five. I know that many people did it not in a movement, but did it quietly, they just didn’t go.

Maya: Yeah because I know over here, I felt like there was a shift in the way the media was portraying Israel and Palestine. And also, with the advent of social media, people could tweet out horrifying pictures of dead children, and so I felt like attitudes towards Israel were shifting.

Yasmin: In Israel, it’s getting a very radical reaction from the right wing. Every time that the world is saying something against Israel, they hate Jews and stuff like that. And every time there is a picture like that, “You didn’t see what happened before, that little kid who’s dead maybe had a knife in his hand, a terrorist was hiding behind him.” “These Arabs are making us kill their children,” stuff like that. It’s getting more and more of a radical reaction. You see a Palestinian kid dead and they have to say a lot of bad things to justify that. So actually their reactions are getting worse to this direction, and the public discourse is getting more and more…like stuff that you couldn’t really say before [is] now getting normal. You can express really racist and really violent things and it’s now a normal thing to say in Israel. A few years ago it wasn’t acceptable to say it. So it’s really getting very very radical as a reaction to that.

Maya: Do you feel like there’s a stigma against refusers?

Yasmin: Of course. There is, and it’s something that is very deeply implanted inside of Israeli society and it’s not by mistake. I mean, it’s funny to say that even though draft is mandatory, a lot of efforts from the government and from the authorities goes [into] convincing you it’s a good thing to do, and convincing you it’s not good not to recruit. Like, even though it’s mandatory they keep talking about it. It’s something you have to work on so society will accept it, and you can’t stop working on it. It’s like advertisements for something that’s mandatory, it’s really strange. But it’s not strange, of course you’re going to need that.

Maya: Because they don’t want you to see it as something that’s not mandatory.

Yasmin: They want you to see at as something you want to do and it’s cool to do, and it’s not cool not do it. There were, a few years ago, a set of commercials on TV of young people going on the trip (you have this typical trip after the military–you’re going to South America, or East Asia, or stuff like that) and then you see this group of young people who look like the typical people going on a trip after the military and then they’re all Israeli and they meet somewhere far away from home. And they’re like “Wow, it’s so nice to sit together, let’s sit and talk, we have a lot in common.” So they sit and they all say like, “Okay what did you do in the army?” So everyone says what they did in the army, and then they get to the last one and he’s quiet and very shy and there is a very stressed and tense silence, and then they have this title saying “A real Israeli doesn’t abandon his duty.” There is a word for that, to abandon your duty–mishtamet is someone who abandons his duty and that’s the name they use to call people who don’t recruit. The normal Israeli person won’t say “refuser” or “someone who didn’t recruit,” they would say mishtamet, someone who abandoned his duty.

And then there was this sticker campaign they did of “Combat service is the best bro.” It goes better in Hebrew obviously, but that’s what it said. And then they decided it’s not feminist so they did a version of it in woman form, which is funny. And then I think last year around the attack on Gaza they had the worst, worst, worst commercials. They had this like–you see things, which are strong, and then they say, “Is this strong? No, Tzahal is strong, the IDF is strong, this is not strong.” One thing was a very, very masculine man with a lot of muscles going to the gym: “Is this strong? No, the IDF is strong.” And then like a girl playing the drums really hard: “Is this strong? No, the IDF is strong.” And then they had a Palestinian man with keffiyeh, drinking black coffee: “Is this coffee strong? No the IDF is strong?” This was the worst.

They work really hard for this image. And then you’re someone who’s abandoning his duty and not someone who’s working really hard to go against the mainstream. So this is the image of refusers and of just people who don’t go to the army. Even though many people don’t go, almost half of Israelis don’t serve in the military, it’s still a shameful thing to do and something that is very not discussed and not very known.

Mondoweiss Editors

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50 Responses

  1. ivri on December 25, 2015, 3:40 pm

    That`s OK, Israel is a real democracy and this woman proves that and although I don`t agree with what she says I would be sorry and surprised if there were not people at all here who think otherwise than me on such a complicated matter as the conflict here.
    More to the point: I think Israel is approaching the moment where the “people`s army”, which served it well for decades, needs a re-make. Given that a lot has shifted to the technological arena, where the need for human soldiers is much smaller, coupled with the growth of Israel`s population (almost tenfold since its establishment), there is, indeed, no point to coerce people to do what they don`t believe in – as e.g. serving in the various active arenas of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
    Israel must move to set a semi-professional army – on the lines of the US, but since it is much smaller and still has a lot of needs those that don`t want to serve actively in the Palestinian or other arenas should be offered other opportunities. The professional army, on the other hand, will only accept people that are ready to be positioned where the army decides and they should have more extensive training programs, be more like career-soldiers (even if possibly for shorter periods if they want so) and of course be rewarded correspondingly in all kinds of ways.
    I think that kind of takes care of the issue raised here – including the giving up on active service duties in the army for the kind of Break the Silence people – and will also be better and more effective from the point of view of Israel`s goals and needs.

    • talknic on December 26, 2015, 2:38 am

      @ ivri ” Israel is a real democracy”

      No mention of democracy in the Declaration of statehood. In fact it says:

      “The state of Israel ….will be based on freedom, justice and peace as envisaged by the prophets of Israel

      Furthermore Israelis were robbed by the un-elected Provisional Government of Israel of their right to a constitution, resulting in Israel never having had a legally elected Government, under the promised constitution

      “although I don`t agree with what she says I would be sorry and surprised if there were not people at all here who think otherwise than me on such a complicated matter as the conflict here”

      There’s nothing complicated about it. Israel is acting illegally in non-Israeli territories held under Israeli occupation. The answer is simple, withdraw to Israel’s actual borders for once.

      • Marnie on December 26, 2015, 2:55 am

        IOW Ivri – Its the occupation, stupid! Simple, simple, simple.

      • ivri on December 26, 2015, 6:51 pm

        @marnie: “It`s the occupation, stupid|”
        No, it` s not – it is far deeper than that. And beyond that it is a dangerous delusion to think that relinquishing (security) control over the West-Bank the will make matters better (as also some Israelis do). You do that and Israel security drops sharply instantly. Remember the mortars form Gaza in the last war that were shot continuously at Israeli towns (not settlements!) around it – so now take a look at the map and imagine the same coming from the West-Bank right on the heartland of Israel (for instance, the distance between the green line and the sea in the area where I am writing at this moment is less than8 (!!!) miles). That`s the story in a nutshell.

      • DaBakr on December 26, 2015, 8:13 pm

        @iv

        Don’t fool yourself. Nobody here gives a sht about the 10km , the rockets, the potential security, the instability,the Hamas as they don’t think you deserve any sovereignty over this land.

      • Sibiriak on December 26, 2015, 9:43 pm

        talknic: Israel is acting illegally in non-Israeli territories held under Israeli occupation.
        ——————–

        I agree completely. And under the international legal and political consensus, expressed in numerous UN resolutions and ICJ statements, territories under Israeli Occupation are those territories outside the Green Line.

        (I’ve been blocked by the “Sucuri WebSite Firewall” from posting on the “Golan” thread, so I wasn’t able to respond to your other points there.)

        ———————-

        talknic: Sibiriak “The “Green Line” (1949 Armistice line) has become the internationally recognized provisional border between Israeli and Palestinian territory.”

        I have never been able to find any official International recognition […]
        Nor would it be legal under the Montevideo Convention on the Rights and duties of States 1933. Under Article 11 it is a …

        precise obligation not to recognize territorial acquisitions or special advantages which have been obtained by force whether this consists in the employment of arms, in threatening diplomatic representations, or in any other effective coercive measure


        ————————-

        The principle of the inadmissibility of territorial acquisition by war has been applied by the UN, ICJ etc to territory acquired by Israel during the 1967 war, but NO T to territory acquired before the 1949 armistice agreements. This is because that first war was viewed as a non-international conflict to which international law largely did not apply.
        ——————

        [Hostage:] […]The Stimson Doctrine did not apply to civil wars between the lawful inhabitants of a State. In the 1930s only States could enter into international agreements and only States were considered persons of international law in accordance with Article 1 of The Montevideo Convention (1933). BTW, that was only an international agreement between States. Article 11 only established a conventional rule of their conduct that applied to wars between themselves (international armed conflicts). Treaties were not considered binding agreements with respect to non-State belligerents or insurgents.

        […]During civil wars in a High Contracting State, Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention applies. Many of the 161 customary rules of international law do not apply to non-international armed conflicts ,/b> (NIAC). See the list for the applicable rules for international armed conflicts (IAC): link to icrc.org

        http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/haaretz-columnist-says-2-state-solution-is-dead-and-global-community-must-help-us-toward-equal-rights#comment-408395

        ————————

        [Avi_G.:]Phil, Finkelstein, and others sometimes like to separate the legal precedent that is the UN Partition Plan and Declaration of Independence, from the war of aggression of 1967, forgetting that land acquired in 1948 by force cannot be legally annexed.

        [Hostage:] The principles of international law regarding annexation of territory did not apply to the civil war (a non-international armed conflict) between the communities of the Palestine mandate. After the mandate was terminated, Israel declared its independence and the Arabs declared a union between Transjordan and Arab Palestine. Once Israel and Jordan were both admitted to the UN as member states, and none of their citizens shared a common Palestinian nationality, the on-going conflict was transformed into an international one. The ICJ noted that, in 1967, both sides were High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions. So the situation then was completely different.

        In 1947, the UN had been asked to propose a peaceful solution to the increasingly violent situation in Palestine. The Security Council accepted the General Assembly’s recommendation in principle, but it became clear that the partition plan could not be carried out by peaceful means. The members of the Security Council objected to the use of force to impose a political solution on the Charter basis that the United Nations is not authorized to intervene in matters which are essentially within the domestic jurisdiction of any State. So it called the General Assembly back into special session. A Mediator was appointed to find an alternative, negotiated, solution. The portion of the GA resolution on partition was never actually implemented, although both sides later claimed the other had “violated” the terms.

        The parties concerned entered into international armistice agreements which granted the belligerents civil jurisdiction to apply their municipal laws up to the “Green Lines”. That is the normal definition of annexation. The agreements also constituted “belligerent recognition” under customary international law […]

        http://mondoweiss.net/2011/12/haaretz-columnist-says-2-state-solution-is-dead-and-global-community-must-help-us-toward-equal-rights#comment-408395
        ———————————–

        [Hostage:] […]The Plan of Partition for the two states was only one of the many chapters in the recommended “Plan for the Future Government Of Palestine”, UN GA resolution 181(II). It was never implemented due to the non-international armed conflict in Palestine. Israel was created by its own act of secession during a civil war, so international law was largely inapplicable. […]

        http://mondoweiss.net/2011/11/48-is-beginning-to-replace-67-in-discourse-even-at-uva#comment-386937
        ————————–

        [Hostage: […]The conflict in Palestine was essentially viewed as a civil war. For example, after the Deir Yassin massacre, the members of the Security Council met privately and decided that the anticipated entry of Abdullah into Palestine would not necessarily constitute an act of aggression – if he were coming to the aid of his disorganized and demoralized brethren who had become the objects of Jewish attack. Like Folke Bernadotte, they privately proposed a union of the Arab portions of the Mandate.

        The principles of inter-temporal law would prevent anyone from going to the ICJ on the basis of resolution 181(II) to take back territory legally occupied under the terms of the General Armistice Agreements. The ICJ has already said that it still considers the General Armistice Agreement between Israel and Jordan to be a valid undertaking. See paragraph 129 (.pdf)of the Wall advisory opinion. […]

        http://mondoweiss.net/2011/01/well-who-does-he-remind-you-of#comment-265372
        ——————-

        On the principles of inter-temporal law see: https://www.soas.ac.uk/lawpeacemideast/publications/file60534.pdf

      • ivri on December 27, 2015, 3:27 am

        #DaBakr
        Yes, you could be right. But even so they should at least be concerned about their own fate. The Palestinians areas were calm and people there safe from the mayhem all around Israel – and now they are pushing things in that direction. They might come to regret it badly.

      • Marnie on December 27, 2015, 6:20 am

        There’ll never be security in “Israel” as long as there is occupation. NEVER. Now the monster (zionism) is unable to control the maniacal settlers and their horrible offspring because they’ve been spoiled rotten, no nothing but the welfare/nanny state and are very willing to kill for anything they desire, which is all of Palestine, a mass of land empty of Muslims and Christians. Then they’ll start to kill each other in earnest, in a culling of the “chosen people”. Sound like fun to you?

      • ivri on December 27, 2015, 9:09 am

        @marnie
        What you should have written is: There will never be security in Israel as long as there is Israel – and that could be true – because Israel itself is what it appears to Palestinians as first and foremost as “the occupation”. So you have got it right in putting it between quotation marks, because that`s exactly how it is seen from the Palestinian side – as the “original sin” – and, accordingly, when they say “lasting peace” `with it`, they really mean and think `without it`.
        And as for your macabre, doomsday, “prophecy” – that`s actually already happening except that in neighboring countries

      • Mooser on December 27, 2015, 12:37 pm

        “Don’t fool yourself. Nobody here gives a sht about the 10km , the rockets, the potential security, the instability,the Hamas as they don’t think you deserve any sovereignty over this land.”

        Hit ’em over the head with the Jewish, “dabakr”! As soon as you say the words “Jewish hysterical homeland” (and I quote!) nobody can say nothin’, without they are talking bad about Jews, and nobody is allowed to do that!

      • Marnie on December 27, 2015, 1:22 pm

        @ivri
        “And as for your macabre, doomsday, “prophecy” – that`s actually already happening except that in neighboring countries.”

        Bullshit, it’s happening here already with the madwoman hotovely and ImTirtzu calling out Israelis who are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause as traitors within our midst and agents of foreign governments. Get a grip – NO ONE BELIEVES YOU.

      • ivri on December 27, 2015, 1:42 pm

        @marnie
        OK, I understand – you are part of that loony Left here. I know that Israel has also a growing loony right but that`s exactly the problem – namely, the danger of shrinkage of the reasonable and responsible center in this country. By your extremism you are contributing to that problem!!

      • Mooser on December 27, 2015, 1:59 pm

        ” By your extremism you are contributing to that problem!!”

        Ah, “dabakr”, this is good for me. I should remember I’m not the only comedian around here.

      • echinococcus on December 27, 2015, 2:24 pm

        Miracle, Marnie!
        Da Baker and Ivri seem to get it easier than some serious and honest people here.
        Yes, the only justice to close this story is Palestine in all of Palestine, without blackmailed discounts. And you know what they say: no justice, no peace. There may be a good reason for that old saw.

      • Marnie on December 27, 2015, 2:46 pm

        @ivri

        “the danger of shrinkage” can be completely avoided if you stay out of very cold water.

        What you understand would fill a thimble. Maybe.

      • ivri on December 27, 2015, 3:21 pm

        @mooser : “I`m not the only comedian around here”
        It`s OK to want to be a comedian but what about being also funny?

      • talknic on December 27, 2015, 7:12 pm

        @ ivri “What you should have written is: There will never be security in Israel as long as there is Israel “

        But Marnie didn’t write that “– and that could be true” If YOU say so. Marnie didn’t

        ” – because Israel itself is what it appears to Palestinians as first and foremost as “the occupation”. So you have got it right in putting it between quotation marks, because that`s exactly how it is seen from the Palestinian side – as the “original sin” – and, accordingly, when they say “lasting peace” `with it`, they really mean and think `without it`.”

        That’s why they’ve offered to accept only 22% of their territory in return for peace with Israel

      • ivri on December 28, 2015, 1:30 pm

        @marnie : “what you understand would fill a thimble. Maybe”
        Well, that`s my common experience with the loony left: when they are out of answers their instinctive fallback is to insults.
        This, plus the generally aggressive language they are prone to use, often outright vulgar, is puzzling – oxymoronic to the lofty human values and moral standards that these people are purportedly (or self-described to be) committed to.
        It kind of suggests an impersonation – a sugarcoating of what deep down is pretty brutal – and I think people intuitively sense that and are repulsed by it.

      • Mooser on December 28, 2015, 1:52 pm

        You tell ’em, “Irvi”! Only a matter of time until everybody sees you are right, and have perfectly good reasons for your officious attitude.

        “This, plus the generally aggressive language they are prone to use”

        Yuip, I bet those “loony leftists” dance around and stab pictures of murdered babies <all the time!! That’s just what they’re like.

      • ivri on December 28, 2015, 4:57 pm

        @ mooser
        Well that`s what I just wrote (see above), namely the normal center is caught between the extremist right and left – and they also feed into each other, using the other side, what it does and say, as their raison d`etre.
        And, well, like a one-trick-pony, you just did that again!

      • Mooser on December 28, 2015, 7:53 pm

        “And, well, like a one-trick-pony, you just did that again!”

        Oh, I hate it when I do that.
        Well, I guess I will brace myself for the arson, murder, and “price-tag” attacks by the Israeli Left, sure to follow my provocation!
        And when I think that all that left-wing violence is tolerated, even protected by the IDF, I could plotz!

        Blow it out your […] “Irvi”.

      • Marnie on December 29, 2015, 4:31 am

        @ivri

        @marnie : “what you understand would fill a thimble. Maybe” Well, that`s my common experience with the loony left: when they are out of answers their instinctive fallback is to insults. Oh snap – do you even read what you write? “Loony left”? I know that’s no compliment, its um, what is that thing called, oh yes – it’s the instinctive fallback to insults!

        I’m not portraying myself as a scion of virtue or manners or anything of the like and I’ll take real aggression over your passive-aggression (loony left) any f&%king day or the condescending, paternalistic, misogynist speech of yours (“what you should have written”). If you’re claiming to count yourself as “reasonable” and “responsible center” of the country, first off, there is no such animal. Here your’e either hot or cold, right or left. There’s no in between and never was since the “creation” of the “state” of Israel” was a violent, horrifying holocaust, a takeover of land and resources resulting in the immediate deaths of thousands and the expulsion of hundreds of thousands. No “reasonable” and “responsible center” type person would go for something like that. Not if they understand the definition of reasonable and responsible center. Also, apology for the defect on my part, but if you feel I have attempted to “sugar coat” anything, I’m obviously not nearly aggressive enough.

        If you feel you have to retort, talk to the hand.

    • eljay on December 26, 2015, 7:36 am

      || ivri: That`s OK, Israel is a real democracy … ||

      Israel is a real oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” that:
      – has been committing real (war) crimes and sundry acts of injustice and immorality for almost 70 years; and
      – refuses to honour its obligations under international law (including RoR of refugees).

      But, sure, it’s not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.

      • echinococcus on December 26, 2015, 10:24 am

        But, sure, it’s not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”

        Wrongity wrong, Eljay.
        All said hell holes are on their own territory; democracy or despotism, their government form is out of bounds as a pretext for foreign intervention, much as one may feel like hanging them.
        Very different than the for the Zionist entity, illegally installed on other people’s territory and land, which is screaming for corrective intervention.

      • eljay on December 26, 2015, 2:05 pm

        || echinococcus: Wrongity wrong, Eljay. … ||

        Not according to Zio-supremacists, who routinely – and schizophrenically (or perhaps Ziophrenically) – praise and hail the “Jewish State” of Israel as a “moral beacon” even as they defend it as being slightly better than some of the worst “hell-holes” around.

      • echinococcus on December 27, 2015, 2:27 pm

        Eljay,

        Sure, we know all that. Since when do any words by Zionists deserve attention? They still are illegally on other people’s territory and so a legitimate objective for outside intervention.

      • Philemon on December 27, 2015, 9:16 pm

        echinococcus:

        “Finally, nukes are certainly not repeat not genocidal weapons in the hands of the Zionists, for the good reason that they live on the land of the very people they desire to eliminate. The nukes are there to threaten the entire Middle East and, some credibly say, Europe.”

        The “entire Middle Eastt.” Really. So, not genocidal. Of course, of course.. So silly of me to think… Hey, what the hell are you pulling, echinococcus:?

      • echinococcus on December 28, 2015, 4:31 am

        Philemon,

        That’s just a matter of the exact word that applies. If the nukes were in a position to be used to exterminate, or attempt to exterminate, the entire Palestinian population, that would be genocidal use. If instead they are threatening the entire populations of cities, as we have done in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, that’s not usually called genocide. Not that it makes any difference in reality.

      • Philemon on December 28, 2015, 9:15 pm

        Yeah, echi, I got that. But “the entire Middle East” ain’t just a little city or two. And we all know how Israel loves to create refugees by now.

        (Also, European capitals aren’t by any means little cities. Exterminating such vast populations and destroying their government institutions would probably count as genocide, in European popular opinion, anyway.)

      • echinococcus on December 29, 2015, 5:41 am

        Still no reason for fuzzy use of exceedingly precise terms, Philemon.
        Genocide is what the Zionist entity is practicing as we speak, no need for nukes to do that.

      • Philemon on December 29, 2015, 8:55 pm

        Echi writes: “Genocide is what the Zionist entity is practicing as we speak, no need for nukes to do that.”

        Sadly, I cannot argue with that.

        However, I do find the Zionist entity’s cagey boastfulness about the nuclear weapons they supposedly have to be indicative of, shall we say, more ambitious genocidal proclivities.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius on December 26, 2015, 3:07 pm

      “Given that a lot has shifted to the technological arena, where the need for human soldiers is much smaller”

      Thank you for putting in words the delusion which has seen Israel not win a single war for over 40 years – despite having gone to ‘war’ 4 times in the past decade alone.

      A trained monkey can drop bombs on refugee camps or blast boys playing football on a beach (though the monkey would need a particularly sadistic streak, especially for the latter). Israel has done the above with glee on a biannual basis over the last ten years, and what has it got to show for it? Other than extreme Arab suffering (to which it is at best indifferent), a smack in the fact to its macho cult of ‘deterrance’ and growing disgust around the world, it has got pretty much nada. This is because killing lots of women and children does not win a war. All it does is create more enemies. To win a war, you need to have soldiers prepared to fight and die, not waiting for a chance to upload their cute war porn pics to Instagram. When faced with a real enemy in Hizballah, the willy wavers of the IDF shat their combat pants and ran away. Twice.

      But by all means continue with the illusion that a few fancy boyz toyz paid for by your American sugar daddy is going to preserve Zionism. It will only hasten its inevitable demise, and that’s fine by me.

      • ivri on December 26, 2015, 6:32 pm

        @ MDC
        You keep dismissing the IDF. These “toys” are today`s warfare tools – times have changed – and mastering them is what is needed.
        “Israel not win a single war for over 40 years”
        That`s because it was blocked in every instance. Indeed, the definition of “winning” itself is not anymore what it used to be – namely, who had the upper hand at the end – because the way things are designed today wars in fact never end. As e.g. the war on terror – at what point can one say it is won, or over? And who is there to concede defeat? For instance the mighty US has been said “to have lost” the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan – simply because it never “won” them.
        “inevitable demise”
        That`s wishful thinking – at least because already repeated for decades and decades now – and not only to no avail but that very period has actually seen the demise of those who kept predicting it. It would have been better for all parties concerned if the wishful-thinkers would have adopted instead another attitude in times past. But apparently they got addicted to this mindset – it`s high time “to change disc”.

      • Mooser on December 26, 2015, 7:50 pm

        “That`s because it was blocked in every instance”

        You just bang this stuff out in your sleep. Yeah, “blocked”, that was the problem.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius on December 27, 2015, 6:34 am

        “These “toys” are today`s warfare tools – times have changed – and mastering them is what is needed.”

        Name me a single war which has been won purely through technology, and not through boots on the ground and considerable casualties from the victorious forces. Just one.

        ” Indeed, the definition of “winning” itself is not anymore what it used to be – namely, who had the upper hand at the end”

        Actually no. The same definition of victory applies now just as it always has – victory means you achieve most or all of the goals you set yourself before going to war. This has not been the case for any of Israel’s many wars over the past 40 years, though I suppose in a ‘country’ where the definition of ‘self-defence’ is bombing refugee camps and schools, I shouldn’t suppose that normal definitions apply there.

        “inevitable demise”
        That`s wishful thinking – at least because already repeated for decades and decades now”

        Decades is a very short time span in the scheme of things. The Crusader Kingdoms lasted a lot longer in that part of the world, and where are they now?

        “That`s because it was blocked in every instance. ”

        How? By the cowardice of the ‘soldiers’ who think it’s So Macho to harass pregnant women at checkpoints, but run away squealing from a real enemy. By the Israeli society that has unlimited tolerance for Arab casualties, but can’t stand it when their own run into double figures?

        Strangely enough for a country so self-absorbed, Israel isn’t very good at introspection. Or maybe it’s not that strange.

    • lonely rico on December 26, 2015, 7:56 pm

      Mr. ivri,

      Yasmin Yablonka’s talks from a moral centre,

      and you’re talking bullshit

      … such a complicated matter as the conflict

      Not complicated at all,
      Not one little bit !

      Israel respects international law and justice,
      and the problem ends – full stop.

      TOMORROW MORNING –

      NO MORE KILLING

      NO MORE DEAD CHILDREN

      • DaBakr on December 26, 2015, 8:22 pm

        @rc

        You would have to be a complete fool to believe this fantasy in your brain. what else to be expected by cult-like thinkers who discard, revise or ignore history and believe that if a does b then c will surely follow. It’s kindergarten logic even if the intent is genuine and not duplicitous(and that would be a whole other topic)

      • Kris on December 27, 2015, 1:29 pm

        @lonely rico:

        Israel respects international law and justice,
        and the problem ends – full stop.

        TOMORROW MORNING –

        NO MORE KILLING

        NO MORE DEAD CHILDREN

        What’s “kindergarten logic” about that, DaBkr? If Israel were to observe international law and justice, obviously Israel would stop killing Palestinians, including Palestinian children.

        Or are you saying that Jewish Israeli culture has become so dark and sick that Israeli Jews will be unable to stop acting out their sadistic impulses against the Palestinians, no matter what?

    • zaid on December 26, 2015, 11:06 pm

      How many missiles fall on Israel from Jordan and Egypt which signed a peace agreement with the Zionist state.

      • ivri on December 27, 2015, 3:39 am

        @zaid
        It will be a great day when Hamas begins to think responsibly in the way those countries do – right now they are busy digging more tunnels for mortars and missiles in the Gaza strip that Israel left already many years ago. Even Egypt considers Hamas a threat to it – linked to the Moslem Brotherhood there, which carries its own terrorist attacks in it.

      • Kris on December 27, 2015, 1:39 pm

        @ivri: “Even Egypt considers Hamas a threat to it – linked to the Moslem Brotherhood there, which carries its own terrorist attacks in it. ”

        Gosh, even Egypt!

        We wouldn’t want the vicious military dictatorship Egypt to be inconvenienced by any opposition, would we, ivri?

      • zaid on December 27, 2015, 7:11 pm

        Ivri

        1- Hamas is entitled to use violence against Israel occupation until the liberation of all occupied territories. Palestine is not only Gaza.

        2-Hamas is entitled to use violence against Israel forces until the implementation of the Right of return for all Palestinian refugees including the ones in Gaza (80% of Gaza)

        3-Hamas is entitled to use violence to end the Israel blockade and stop any trespassing over the Gaza strip (Air,land and sea).

        4- Egypt did put Hamas on the terrorist list but only for a little while then they reversed it (putting them on the list was a political move against the MB).

        5-You used a tactic called moving the goal post.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts

      • MaxNarr on December 27, 2015, 10:31 pm

        Zaid,

        1) What sort of violence is acceptable for Hamas to perform

        2) Against whom in your view, is it acceptable for this violence to be directed? It is army only? Or what you call “settlers”?

      • annie on December 28, 2015, 2:36 am

        max, zaid used the term ‘entitled to’ instead of your term “acceptable” > same thing. and colonialists (“settlers”) in occupied territory are not a protected people under the geneva convention because they are there illegally.

      • zaid on December 28, 2015, 1:04 pm

        @Max

        Adhering to Geneva Convention.

  2. Citizen on December 25, 2015, 5:37 pm

    Draft-dodging is trending in Israel & the government is looking into all-volunteer military force: http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htmoral/articles/20150115.aspx

  3. oldcomp on December 25, 2015, 5:57 pm

    I don’t think that’s a Palestinian man with keffiyeh, he looks like a Jewish person of Yemenite or Iraqi descent. He’s wearing a white yarmulke. You can see it at 0:16 in the video if you look at the back of his head.

  4. Ossinev on December 26, 2015, 6:37 am

    @ivri
    “Given that a lot has shifted to the technological arena, where the need for human soldiers is much smaller, coupled with the growth of Israel`s population”

    Grateful for clarification on this one old bean. Are you saying that the ” most moral” robots instead of live “most moral” soldiers will in the very near future be carrying out the 3 a.m. raids on Palestinian homes in the West Bank ?

  5. Ossinev on December 26, 2015, 7:22 am

    @citizen
    The GOI may have to step up its online radicalization programme in the US,Canada and Australia etc to entice some more young Jewish”jihadis” to come and battle against the Goyim forces of”terror” .

  6. lonely rico on January 1, 2016, 2:40 pm

    >DaBakr December 26, 2015, 8:22 pm

    … a complete fool … cult-like thinkers who discard, revise or ignore history

    Au contraire Mr. DaBakr. I know the history of 20th century Palestine, a history of egregious Zionist violence against the local population who had been peacefully living there for centuries. For the better part of a century it’s been the ZIONIST WAY, ignoring international law and justice for the Palestinians.

    The ZIONIST WAY

    ~ Appalling cruelty, death and destruction of a largely defenseless population;
    ~ Thousands of injured, maimed, and murdered children;
    ~ Violence stretching out into an uncertain future, no justice and no peace.

    Insanity was once defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
    The ZIONIST WAY is clearly insane, the time has come (in fact long past) for Israel to try something different – respect for international law and justice for the Palestinians.
    Sic pax nascetur.

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