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UK Labour Party is right to drop racist IHRA guidelines of anti-Semitism

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As Jewish people in Manchester, England, we resent the despicable racism shown towards the Palestinians by Guardian stalwarts such as Jonathan Freedland, Polly Toynbee, Jessica Elgott, Eddie Izzard, Nick Cohen, Marina Hyde and Gaby Hinsliff among others, all saturating comment sections on mainstream news websites with attacks designed to bring down the UK Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn, and to protect Israel from accountability. The International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance (IHRA) Anti-Semitism definition guidelines the Labour Party are correctly omitting, are designed by Israeli propagandists to aid their many mass lobby attempts to stop international solidarity with the Palestinians and to deny Palestinians the right to express the nature of Israel’s 70 years of violence and racism towards them.

We call on everyone to see that creating a largely-mythical anti-Semitism ‘crisis’ in the Labour Party is one of the few tools left to ailing and desperate establishment hacks wanting to smear Corbyn and maintain UK support for Israel, no matter how many Palestinians the Israeli army slaughters, or how many houses, schools, and hospitals Israeli jets destroy in Gaza. In the face of this, Zionist groups with a history of uncritical support for Israel claim that Corbyn presents an existential threat to British Jews? This is obscene, hypocritical scaremongering.

We’ve seen this pattern repeatedly; UK commentators take the morally defunct option of backing right wing mainstream Zionist organisations’ outrageous cries of ‘anti-Semitism’ the moment Corbyn’s Labour get ahead in the polls, or the moment there is a risk of serious public condemnation of Israel’s horrific crimes against the Palestinians. All of these organisations spend a disproportionate amount of time promoting Israel in the UK, and cynically covering up the State’s crimes, be it Israel’s sporadic mass-murders, such as the 500 Gazan children in 50 days in 2014, or the gradual ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Arabs that has happened since Israel came about in 1948.

In the months of the Great Return March, over 150 Palestinians have been shot and killed for protesting peacefully at the Gaza boundary – including young medics, clearly-marked journalists, disabled men in wheelchairs, and children – many children. And it was during these months of carnage that the UK media’s perpetual main story was that Jeremy Corbyn has created a ‘safe harbour’ in the Labour Party for anti-Semites, even though official figures suggest that rates of anti-Semitism in the party have decreased since Corbyn became leader.

There is a disproportionate media furore insinuating that Labour did not back some guidelines of an anti-Semitism definition drawn up by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. The definition in question is completely unofficial, and is legally non-binding, but has clearly been exploited by pro-Israeli propaganda groups around the world to use as a rhetorical weapon against politicians, Universities, councils, companies and of course Labour party members; basically against anyone who dares to question the Apartheid system of control that Israel has violently imposed on the Palestinians for some seven decades.

Most disgusting of all was the ease with which people like Eddie Izzard, Polly Toynbee, Tom Watson and other Labour opponents of Corbyn, have happily adopted the most racist position imaginable against an oppressed people – by attempting to make Palestinians invisible from the whole debate. All four of the IHRA ‘examples’ that Labour dropped from their anti-Semitism guidelines were those that conflated Jews with Israel.

Why were Palestinians not consulted on the whole debate about Israel and anti-Semitism, when they are the people being slowly squeezed out of existence by Israel? Where are thePalestinian voices in the Guardian? If this public row was really about Jews, we would have the definition “Anti-Semitism is hostility to Jews as Jews”. It would be all we would require. But it is not just about hostility to Jews for being Jews, it has always been about protecting and validating Israel, it has always been about getting Corbyn out at all costs to prevent the UK from electing a pro-Palestinian Prime Minister, and that is why the definition has become corrupted. We, as Jews, will not mindlessly pretend that protecting the Jewish people and protecting Israel are the same thing, on the hopeless say-so of a crew of establishment hacks at the Guardian.

Countless cut-throat journalists and politicians have condemned Corbyn for letting this anti-Semitism saga run and run, accusing him of never getting to grips with the supposed omni-presence of Jew-hate within the Labour left. In truth, it is these cut-throats themselves who have propagated and prolonged the saga, largely by unquestioningly echoing the never-ending propaganda tirades of groups like the Board of Jewish Deputies (BoD). The BoD have made no bones about why they are against Corbyn. Jonathan Arkush, the outgoing BoD president has openly stated that, ultimately, Jeremy Corbyn’s position on the state of Israel are at the centre of his accusations against him.

According to the IHRA guidelines, for which every white liberal Guardian writer is screaming from the rooftops, a holocaust survivor like Marika Sherwood, a historian who survived the Budapest ghetto and says, “I can’t say I’m a Palestinian, but my experiences as a child are not dissimilar to what Palestinian children are experiencing now,” should be thrown out of the Labour Party on grounds of anti-Semitism.

We have no doubt the same pro-Israel/Zionist trolls would have no hesitation hunting down Marika Sherwood either, for being, like us, “the wrong kind of Jew.” They would impugn her integrity, no matter what her experiences were, no matter that her uncle died on the march to Auschwitz, no matter that she lost many other members of her extended family to the Holocaust. Indeed, hunt her down is precisely what they did when she spoke at the University of Manchester; with a campaign attacking her, the majority of email complaints including a manipulation of the IHRA definition. Even Israel’s UK ambassador got involved.

We as Jews are used to these relentless bullies, as we have faced the same barrage of abuse from them as we also chose to speak out against Israel’s crimes against the Palestinians. But even worse has been the way the UK media establishment have not only parroted the attacks, they’ve actually taken them up a notch further. Most recently in unison they attacked a now deceased Holocaust survivor Dr Hajo Meyer who compared aspects of his own experiences under Nazi Germany to that of what the Palestinians were going through, in an event chaired by Jeremy Corbyn 8 years ago. Liam O’Brien on LBC radio was disgraceful enough to say that Dr Meyer, who was a prisoner at the Nazi death camp Auschwitz whilst his parents were gassed to death, had made his speech in support of the Palestinians behind the “camouflage” of being a Holocaust survivor.

We know what these smear merchants are doing, and so do many Jews across the UK who want no associations with an Israeli state that has officially proclaimed itself an Apartheid regime in all-but-name, with the passing of ‘The Jewish Nation State Law’. In truth, this Law only formalises what was already reality for decades. Absurdity is hitting unprecedented heights, notable when Britain’s three main Jewish newspapers called Corbyn, one of the most dedicated and consistent anti-racist campaigners in the country, an ‘existential threat’ to British Jews. No mention of the existential threat faced by the Palestinians, only paranoid claims of a fictitious existential threat faced by British Jews.

While the real European threat, the far right, rises and rises, hand-in-hand with the far right of Israel (especially in the Knesset), we can only hope that more Jews come to perceive just how ridiculous this controversy is becoming.

Jonathan Freedland, one of the UK’s most effective propagandists for Israel, while giving Palestinians occasional lip service so he and the other liberal elitists can make doubtful claims to ‘impartiality’, has been the most relentless in his attacks on Corbyn. Freedland routinely uses his opinion editorial position in the Guardian to do more than most to ‘strong-arm’ the Labour Party into backing the whole IHRA definition, flawed examples and all. It is unsurprising that he would push for the guideline, “claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour” to be included as anti-Semitic trope, given he is on record excusing the crime against humanity that was Israel’s foundational act -the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian population in 1947/1948. Racism appears to be an unspoken requirement for becoming comments editor at the Guardian – how much Freedland would love to bury that part of Israel’s history though an IHRA guideline.

With the full IHRA definition, it would be ‘anti-Semitic’ for Palestinians to describe their brutal dispossession. Worse, a Palestinian member of the Labour Party would be barred from even condemning the father of modern Israel, Ben Gurion, for saying in 1937, “We must expel the Arabs and take their place” – 11 years before he and his fellow Zionists carried it out. There is no ‘moral collapse’ in criticising this absurdity. The only such collapse taking place here is in the normalisation of an entire people becoming officially ‘disposable’ – both in Israel’s physical treatment of the Palestinians, and in Zionist attempts to blot out Palestinian history.

Did Israel’s most fervent supporters, who are pushing this definition, believe that no one would actually read these examples and think for themselves?

Kenneth Stern, the American who drafted the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, has said himself that the definition had been abused on US university campuses to “restrict academic freedom and punish political speech”, and had the effect of “chilling pro-Palestinian speech”. Stern described how the misuse of the definition had led to the cancellation of “Israeli Apartheid Week” in the UK at the University of Central Lancashire in Preston (UCLAN), due to an enormous censorship campaign that exploited these guidelines, even though the University had not even signed up to them. The unsuspecting University executive folded under pressure, panicked by the barrage of threats, no matter how empty and misdirected.

Were the IHRA examples to be universally adopted, Israel’s lobbyists, lawyers, paid-up trolls, and diplomats, who openly boast about their work of suppression, would be free to go into overdrive. We can then expect to see a lot more Israeli Apartheid Weeks banned, for one thing, despite countless Black South Africans such as Mandela and Tutu visiting Palestine andcomparing Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians with how the White South African Apartheid regime treated them.

Judging by Freedland’s latest efforts to distort this whole picture, this suppression seems to be something he and many other liberal Zionists are happy to overlook.

We as Jews know keenly the suffering of our ancestors. We have family members who survived concentration camps, relatives who escaped Pogroms, relatives who were shot dead for being Jewish while playing on the streets in Warsaw, relatives forced to live in Ghettos, relatives who were part of resistance movements helping to hide Jewish refugees, endangering their own lives. We will not allow our shared history of the Shoah and other campaigns of anti-Semitic oppression to be manipulated in this cynical way, just to get Western governments to turn a blind eye to Israeli massacres of innocent people who demand only freedom and dignity. We know injustice, and we know that there is nothing moral, or even Jewish, about ferreting around the UK, policing the thoughts of other people, bullying them into supporting Israel, or portraying some of the most committed anti-racist campaigners around as the complete opposite.

We do not believe that any of the high-profile members suspended by the Labour Party – Jackie Walker, Marc Wadsworth or Tony Greenstein, are anti-Semitic. Jackie and Tony are Jewish, as were Moshe Machover, Glyn Secker and Cyril Chilsom, who were initially suspended until a campaign brought them back. Not only was what they said not in any way racist, but knowing our Jewish dinner chats, there is not a single Jew who would still be in the Labour Party if every word we uttered was historically scrutinised in the way theirs have. The common thread here is that they were all people who have fought tirelessly their entire lives against racism, much more consistently than their accusers have, and they were not afraid, like so many others in Labour, to criticise the horrors committed by Israel against the Palestinians.

Are there anti-Semites in the Labour Party? It’s impossible for there not to be, given that there are anti-Semites in all walks of life. Should they be clamped down upon when they are discovered? Of course, that should happen at every turn, as with any form of racism.

But when the Pew report and UK parliamentary committee found there was no disproportionate amount of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party, and indeed it was much more prevalent on the right, under no circumstances should this “Labour rife with anti-Semitism” lie be propagated.

While this Labour red herring of widespread anti-Semitism persists, the really dangerous anti-Semites are resurfacing. It will be too late to call out the real anti-Semitism of these people, when the term’s meaning will have been utterly compromised by those exploiting it to protect the Israeli state. For the record, our group has no links to the media, does not strive for world dominance, and far from hogging lots of money, we are all pretty skint.

The real racists in the Labour Party are the Labour friends of Israel, who released a statement blaming the deaths of over a hundred Palestinian protesters in Gaza on Hamas, not the Israeli soldiers who shot and killed them. No uproar in being a friend of an apartheid regime.

The spokesperson for Jeremy Corbyn had it exactly right when he said, “We have concerns about one half of one of the IHRA’s 11 examples, which could be used to deny Palestinians, including Palestinian citizens of Israel and their supporters, their rights and freedoms to describe the discrimination and injustices they face in the language they deem appropriate.”

As a Jewish organisation, we cannot and will not accept any more of these mainstream Zionist organisations’ claiming to speak on our behalf, always without consulting us. We will not accept the complete censoring of Palestinian voices in the mainstream media and the ongoing racism directed towards them. We call for a boycott and divestment of Israel, and for sanctions to be imposed on the country until Palestinians get the same human rights as the Jewish population. We call on Jews, not just in the UK but around the world, to look at how Israel has persecuted the Palestinians for decades, to hear and amplify Palestinian voices, and to say together in one voice, “Not in Our Name”.

About Manchester Jewish Action for Palestine

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91 Responses

  1. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    August 6, 2018, 2:27 pm

    Sometimes I wonder these days if I’m living in the Twilight Zone rather than in the UK.

    The media is agonising on a daily basis about the ‘anti semitism row’. Talking heads scrutinise the minutiae of the IHRA definition as though it were holy writ. The twitter feeds of half the politicians in the land ooze with hand-wringing and heart-felt concern over the ‘hurt’ to the ‘Jewish community’ (whatever that is). Members of the Labour party – most of whom nobody had ever heard of – are making sure we all know that they are ‘on the brink’ of leaving the Labour party ‘with a heavy heart’. Even the normally reasonable C4 News – disgracefully – carried a feature with a 13 year old girl saying she had been mocked ‘because of things Corbyn said’, with nobody thinking to ask her what – exactly – Corbyn had said.

    And all this, for what?

    You would swear Jewish businesses were being burned down, that Jews were being forced to walk around London with yellow stars or that the mainstream press were full of anti semitic caricatures. Of course, none of that is happening. Instead, HM loyal opposition has simply decided not to take on some of the examples appended to a ‘definition’ whose own authors have cautioned against and which has no legal basis anywhere on earth.

    As George Galloway, who I don’t always agree with, has said, other minorities in the UK must be looking on agog. Why are they so less important that they don’t deserve reams of coverage about the slightest ‘offence’ to their ‘feelings’? Why are leaders of their ‘communities’ not given a platform to talk about how aggreived and victimised they feel?

    All this for the appendices to a non legally binding definition. IMHO, this whole manufactured crisis proves not that Jews are the victims of widespread bigotry in the UK, but exactly the opposite. Genuinely victimised minorities don’t have the entire media and political class lining up to hold their hands over imaginary slights.

    It’s surreal. Really, it is.

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      August 6, 2018, 5:01 pm

      I share the Twilight Zone feeling. But while there is indeed no legal force as yet the plan is clearly to make anti-Z illegal, possibly by the enactment of a Labour Government led by Watson. They are carrying all before them as far as I can see.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        August 7, 2018, 8:47 am

        Oh I 100% agree. I’ve been saying that for 3 or 4 years now. The end game is to make any and all meaningful criticism of Zionism de facto (if not de jure) illegal, certainly for high-profile types, just as it already is in America. Nothing less will be acceptable. “Legitimate” criticism will be OK, provided it is OK-ed by Jonathan Freedland first. Which means it will hardly be criticism at all.

        And the whole concept of ‘legitimate criticism’ is daft. What is ‘legitimate’ criticism of China? Or the USA? Or Finland? It’s basically saying that all critics of Zionism are by default anti-semites unless their ‘criticism’ is sufficiently mild and ‘reasonable’.

        Like I say,real twilight zone stuff.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso
      August 7, 2018, 10:32 am

      https://medium.com/@deborahmaccoby/is-antisemitism-a-real-problem-in-the-uk-98904154fe5f

      Medium, July 31/18
      “Is Antisemitism a Real Problem in the UK?”

      EXCERPTS:
      “I have been reading this article by Barnaby Raine:
      https://novaramedia.com/2018/07/29/how-labours-dreadful-antisemitism-debate-has-to-change/ which makes me feel concerned that there is too much left-wing capitulation to the anti-Corbyn hysteria campaign. The main message of Barnaby’s piece is contained in this sentence: ‘it can be true both that antisemitism is a real problem in British society and that it is handled cynically by opponents of Corbyn’.

      “But is antisemitism a real problem in British society? Towards the end, Barnaby mentions his personal experiences of antisemitism. I have been reflecting on my own memories in this regard.

      “Of course there has always been and probably always will be anti-Semitism in Britain. I have heard upper-class people talking about ‘Jewish arrivistes.’ I have heard working-class people talking about Jews as stingy, tight-fisted, obsessed with making profits out of their employees. I remember an Indian friend telling me how shocked and bewildered she was when she emigrated from India — where there is no antisemitism — to England and heard people describing Jews as mean and stingy. She told these people that all the Jews she had known in India were very generous.”

      “Antisemitism in UK society is vestigial, low-level — almost never threatening. It is probably ineradicable and I don’t see much point in trying to eliminate it — this would probably be counter-productive. Trying to eradicate prejudices runs the risk of curtailing freedom of speech and thought and of creating resentment that only fans the bigotry one is trying to eliminate. All we can do is keep UK anti-Semitism the way it is — vestigial, marginalised and low-level. Getting hysterical about it for political reasons and grossly inflating it can only increase it and run the risk of turning it into a real danger, as Robert Cohen has pointed out in an excellent article.”

      “If a state that defines itself as ‘the Nation-State of the Jewish People’ perpetrates cold-blooded massacres, as in 2008–9 (Operation Cast Lead) and 2014 (Operation Protective Edge) and if Jewish leaders and communal organisations loudly defend the massacres, is it really cause for wonder that non-Jews would associate this bloodthirsty conduct with Jews, causing a spike in anti-Semitism? As Norman Finkelstein has written: ‘An efficacious method to fight anti-Semitism would appear to be for Israel to stop committing massacres.’”

  2. amigo
    amigo
    August 6, 2018, 2:30 pm

    “Circa 2 weeks ago on PM,S Question,s , Jeremy Corbyn was responding to the Theresa May waxing lyirical about how well she and her band of merry men were handling the Brexit negotiations .He clearly had the opposite view and advised her to spend more time negotiating.

    She responded by accusing him of spending his time defending Antisemites by refusing to accept the IHRA definition of Antisemitism and it wouldbe better spent ridding the Labour Party of such people.

    A 20 minute debate followed on the AS subject and Brexit was put on the back burner.Imagine , the most important event in British history since the War takes second place to fake manufactured accusations of Antisemitism.

    This intrusion into British Politics has no limits.Even the PM is in their pockets.

    Just to add , it,s on BBC again as I write and it is reported that an inquiry into Madame Hodge has been cancelled .

    She referred to JC as a “F—–g Antisemite Jew hater”.

    Truly sickening stuff.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius
      August 6, 2018, 3:41 pm

      I hate to say it Corbyn has handled this extremely badly. He has basically pandered every step of the way to those who want nothing less than his destruction. He doesn’t seem to understand that if you give a bully an inch, they will take a mile. For someone who has een in politics for 40 years, he seems remarkably naive.

      The ‘Dame’ Hodge thing is just the latest cave in. If I used words like that to my boss in public, I’d be fired. And rightly so. Trying to make her into a victim is farcical. She knew exactly what she was doing.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 6, 2018, 7:05 pm

        When The Dame accuses Principal Boy of being The Demon King, we have left fantasy and moved to insanity.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 6, 2018, 7:07 pm

        Though I have to say that Corbyn seems more like Wishee-Washee than Aladdin.

      • Keith
        Keith
        August 7, 2018, 10:30 am

        ROHA- “When The Dame accuses Principal Boy of being The Demon King, we have left fantasy and moved to insanity.”

        I fear that insanity is now the new normal. Perhaps it always was, just better hidden in the past.

  3. HarryLaw
    HarryLaw
    August 6, 2018, 3:16 pm

    This an excellent article on the current situation, my one quibble [if you could call it that] is the comparison between Israel and South Africa. Ronnie Kasrils [former South African Minister] said “Speaking on the sidelines of a UN meeting on the situation in the Palestinian territories, Kasrils said South Africa’s townships had never been attacked by helicopter gunships and tanks, in contrast to the military means employed by Israel.

    “The analogy between apartheid and Israel’s occupation of Palestine is often made. It is not the same thing. The occupation is absolutely worse,” Kasrils told reporters”. https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/israel-worse-than-apartheid-sa-kasrils-352481

  4. HarryLaw
    HarryLaw
    August 6, 2018, 4:20 pm

    Does Corbyn have a backbone? This is a serious question after weeks of seeing his contorted face issuing apology after apology and running from his house to be sped away in a waiting car, the kind of thing criminals do when found guilty leaving court. “The MP Margaret Hodge – who lost family in the Holocaust – hired top lawyers Mischon de Reya after being suspended.
    They threatened to sue Labour last week if the party continued with its “misguided step” of continuing its investigation.
    The lawyers also threatened to take Jeremy Corbyn to court to prove he was an anti-Semite under the definition laid down by the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.
    In a later message on the social media site she indicated that neither side in the dispute had issued an apology.
    Lawyers for Ms Hodge last night directly accused Labour of deliberately and “cynically” misleading the media over their climb down.
    In a letter, Mischon de Reya said Ms Hodge had spoken to chief whip Nick Brown two weeks ago and she “did not express regret in these words or any others”.
    The letter said: “The basis on which you seek to explain this belated volte face is entirely disingenuous.
    “You have entirely misrepresented our client’s discussions with the opposition chief whip in a cynical attempt to save face in your climb down.”
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6955975/margaret-hodge-probe-dropped-slammed-corbyn-anti-semitism/

  5. amigo
    amigo
    August 6, 2018, 4:27 pm

    “I hate to say it Corbyn has handled this extremely badly. “MDM

    Indeed he has.If he would only apply 1/10 0f the veracity he handles the PM with he just might gain some respect and some allies.

    I keep hoping he is expecting May to fall on the Brexit deal and he will become PM and then declare A Palestinian State and oust this scourge on a permanent basis.

    I can dream .

    But I guess , as I am Irish I should mind my own business.

    • MHughes976
      MHughes976
      August 6, 2018, 5:08 pm

      Please keep talking, amigo. We need all the rationality we can get, even if we have to import it

      • amigo
        amigo
        August 6, 2018, 6:44 pm

        “We need all the rationality we can get, even if we have to import it”.MHughes976

        Your welcome and note , it is Tarrif free and no shipping charges , for now at least.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius
      August 6, 2018, 5:13 pm

      Everyone in the land can see that this is a barely disguised, deeply cynical ploy to destroy Corbyn.

      Everyone that is, other than Corbyn himself.

      And sadly if he is being this pandering now, there is very little hope he will suddenly discover a backbone should he ever become PM. That awful article he wrote in the Guardian last week could have been penned by your bog standard “Liberal” Zionist. The Lobby is just too powerful. Of course, it’s probably ‘anti-semetic’ to say that these days. Or even to acknowledge they exist. Let Jonathan Freedland (don’t get me started) and The Guardian go back to fretting over alleged Russian influence in other countries instead.

  6. annie
    annie
    August 6, 2018, 5:02 pm

    for anyone who has not been following the last 100 comments thread just thought i’d mention there’s been a robust conversation about this (same) alarming british scandal going on here: https://mondoweiss.net/2018/08/israels-policies-genocidal/ and some of our regulars have added some great supporting links.

    thank you Manchester Jewish Action for Palestine, for this very timely rundown. as i mentioned in the other thread i’ve been following this really closely and can’t recall anytime since i’ve been on the internet where i’ve witnessed quite the propaganda fiasco going on right now in the UK. nothing quite like it. and the only things that i’d add, which segues with amigo’s ““Circa 2 weeks ago ” is the news of labour’s unprecedented jump in the polls around that time: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/labour-lead-tories-polls-chequers-brexit-summit-corbyn-ukip-a8448071.html

    it seems the coordination of the corbyn opposition is a reflection of their sense of desperation. that and the propaganda attack the first night of the NEC ballots, a concerted effort to tank the momentum9 vying to take over the NEC.

    let’s see if this backfires. labour membership has swelled during this short period.

    • Bob_Salad
      Bob_Salad
      August 6, 2018, 6:06 pm

      This whole smear campaign is either attempting to (a) split the labor voting base – similar to the Gore/Nader environmental ticket split which handed Bush Jr. the US 2000 election, or (b) an attempt to create a big enough AS shit-storm that there’s a direct (and successful) labor leadership challenge.

      As frustrating as JC’s response to this onslaught has been, I think he’s going to weather it. I mean, how much more ridiculous can it get?

      The labor base, esp. young labor, are far too informed these days and they can see this AS BS for what it is.

      So yeah, while frustrating atm, I’m of the opinion this will eventually backfire spectacularly.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 6, 2018, 11:05 pm

        This whole smear campaign is either attempting to (a) split the labor voting base – similar to the Gore/Nader environmental ticket split which handed Bush Jr. the US 2000 election

        My, my. I call this high art: running a smear campaign while appearing to decry a smear campaign. All in less than a single sentence.

      • annie
        annie
        August 6, 2018, 11:11 pm

        really hope so bob. btw, imho scotus handed bush the election, after florida’s treasurer or sec of state i can’t recall. but i get your meaning.

        also, i just read about the treacherous “secret meetings” . i just don’t think they are going to be able to steal the party like that. but one of the articles said they were going to wait til he won and then as a group, refuse to vote for him so he can’t be PM. i’d imagine that would be the final stab in the labour party and it would be quite clear who orchestrated it too. using anti semitism to bring down a political party, it’s just so wrong.

  7. Eva Smagacz
    Eva Smagacz
    August 6, 2018, 5:48 pm

    Jeremy Corbyn is really being attacked from all sides – from inside of his party and from outside. I hope that younger generation is internet savvy enough to have some understanding of Palestinian dispossession.
    But the shrillness and relentlessness of attacks on Jeremy Corbyn is deafening. I have never lived through anything like it.

    It reminds of the pigeon. If you teach a pigeon to knock with his beak at the given spot to get a reward, he will learn it very quickly. So far, so unremarkable. But if you stop providing a reward the pigeon will go into a furious overdrive, knocking the spot with his beak over and over again, using more and more force.

    For pigeon, read Israel Lobby in UK. They must destroy Jeremy Corbyn.
    Jeremy Corbyn in power, with audience of the whole world, expressing sympathy with Palestinian underdog is more than they can bear.

    This is Lobby’s tour de force. There is a Phd in it for someone in future.

    129/138

    • Bob_Salad
      Bob_Salad
      August 6, 2018, 6:33 pm

      This is not the first smear campaign the Tories have meted out to Corbyn. You’ll recall the Tory shitbags went into overdrive prior to the last GE and yet labor still had an excellent showing at the polls and this is after years of being 10+/- points behind the Tories.

      JC certainly has the capacity to endure this and has massive support among the <25yr olds. I think dropping the Hodge investigation today was a good move. You can imagine the ammunition that would have given the media had it been allowed to play out. JC needs to take a leaf out of the Trumpster's book and start getting out on the road and remind the zios how much support he has. A few pictures of JC addressing 1000s of supporters up and down the country would send a very, very strong message.

      Like the pigeon analogy above. Of course, the other thing pigeons do is shit on your head.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        August 7, 2018, 11:11 am

        “I think dropping the Hodge investigation today was a good move. You can imagine the ammunition that would have given the media had it been allowed to play out. ”

        I respectfully disagree. It is the latest in a long line of Corbyn caving into his critics. They’ve got Ken Livingstone, they’ve got Marc Wadsworth… now they’ve got the odious tax-dodging ‘Dame’ Hodge off the hook too. Ian Austin will be next. Which just proves the point they want to prove – there are absolutely no downsides to being a Zionist fanatic and no upsides to it, if you want to succeed at politics in the UK. Didn’t that embassy expose show them saying that ‘Britain needs to be more like America’? Well, looks like we’re headed in that direction, and soon.

      • Bob_Salad
        Bob_Salad
        August 7, 2018, 11:39 am

        Respectfully disagree.

        Let JC’s supporters engage in the fist-fighting. As I’ve suggested above, Corbyn’s priority should be to get on the road and reaffirm his values and principles to the labor voter base. Plenty of <25 yr olds (esp. students) are off enjoying the summer atm. It would be shame to not capitalize on this and rally their support.

        It's frustrating for sure and we'd all like him to give some back as others have suggested. But I think his strategy at this stage is containment. The more he engages with those who seek to bring both him and the Labor party down, the more likely it is that any response on his part be turned against him and will simple serve to pour yet more fuel on an already volatile situation.

        Labor need to circle the wagons. It's his supporters who need to glove-up.

    • echinococcus
      echinococcus
      August 6, 2018, 11:22 pm

      Eva,

      You’re right, it’s pure madness of the crowds, orchestrated in detail. And it is not distinct from the general Anglophone anti-Russian hysteria, either. It’s ludicrous to look at it as if it were a British affair, as if so-called UK were a country of its own in any conceivable way.

  8. Eva Smagacz
    Eva Smagacz
    August 6, 2018, 6:37 pm

    This is the headline in the “Sun”:

    “Jeremy Corbyn has done us all a favour by coming out as a genuine lifelong racist and proving he is unfit to be PM” TREVOR KAVANAGH

    Jeremy Corbyn as “genuine lifelong racist”. The black is white and the sun sets in the east.

    130/139

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius
      August 7, 2018, 8:42 am

      Aside from the fact that Jews are not a race – nobody will ever convince me that Margaret Hodge and Jeremy Corbyn belong to different ‘races’ – to say that a man who has bravely fought against all manner of racism and bigotry for 40 years is suddenly a racist is pure insanity.

      Not to mention that Hodge has known Corbyn for decades. If he is such a f****ing anti semite, surely she should have become aware of it rather sooner? Also, some clever chappy did a search on her Twitter feed. She’s been posting on Twitter for 8 years, but the first reerence to anti semitism was just a few months ago.

      So no, this isn’t a witch-hunt at all.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        August 7, 2018, 1:30 pm

        It’s interesting you should say that, MDM. My inclination, when this blew up, was to say that ‘Jewish’ is substantially defined, in common usage, by reference to ancestry, and that any really large group – say any that is millions strong – so defined is commonly, usually without offence, called a race. To claim exclusive rights for a race, in this sense of ‘race’, is therefore, again by common usage, racism, contrary to the ‘example’ pushed in our faces by the anti-Corbyn crowd. (Someone might claim, I suppose, that in exceptional circumstances there are justified forms of racism, but we could deal with that claim if necessary.)
        Yet I very much see the sense of approaching the question your way. There is enormous commonality and all but trivial difference in the biological constitution of Jews and non-Jews. Perhaps we should avoid terms in common use which appear to have a scientific use but don’t really.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        August 7, 2018, 2:49 pm

        The Cambridge English dictionary defines ‘race’ as “any group into which humans can be divided according to their shared physical or genetic characteristics.”

        Clearly, that is not the case for Jews. European Jews look like European Christians. Indian Jews look like Indian Buddhists and Hindus. If Margaret Hodge converted to, say, Anglicanism tomorrow she would no longer be a Jew or accepted for automatic Israeli citizenship. If Jeremy Corbyn converted to Judaism tomorrow he would become a Jew and entitled to automatic Israeli citizenship.

        At most you can say that Jews form an ethnicity. Though even that is dubious. Nobody has yet managed to tell me what a Jew from Isfahan has in common with a Jew from Los Angeles, other than religion. Not language, not location, not physical appearance, not culture, none of the markers of ethnicity in fact.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 7, 2018, 3:11 pm

        Ashkenazi Jews as of 140 years ago formed a distinctive group that would have been labeled according to some dictionary as fitting some definition of ethnic similarity.

        Hitler defined the Jews as a race and attempted to extinguish them.

        How the existence of Sephardic Jews and the other small smattering of Jews meshes with peoplehood is a valid question.

        Anecdote: At a Brooklyn park an immigrant from the Soviet Union (as it was known at the time) quoted a friend regarding visiting the motherland and the potential for antisemitic violence: They will punch you in your Jewish nose and not in your American passport.

        The existence of certain racial Jewish facial features is part of the lexicon of American culture.

        The giant wave of intermarriage and the miniature wave of conversion to Judaism and of course the permeability of Judaism by the process of conversion certain play a role in trying to understand what the Jews are.

        I do not think highly of strangers telling me what is a jew.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 7, 2018, 3:15 pm

        yonah fredman

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 7, 2018, 4:00 pm

        “I do not think highly of strangers telling me what is a jew.”

        Well, then, move to Israel, and the GOI can tell you “what is a Jew”, or not.

      • amigo
        amigo
        August 7, 2018, 4:09 pm

        “I do not think highly of strangers telling me what is a jew.” Yonah Fredman —aka wondering Jew”

        Yonah , you would fit in well with those who would seek to shove their understanding of Antisemitism down our throats.. I don,t take kindly to strangers who try to silence my opposition to Israel,s policies and treatment of Palestinians.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        August 7, 2018, 4:19 pm

        “Ashkenazi Jews as of 140 years ago formed a distinctive group that would have been labeled according to some dictionary as fitting some definition of ethnic similarity.”

        Yes but they are only a sub-set of Jews.

        “Hitler defined the Jews as a race and attempted to extinguish them.”

        Oh well, if Adolf said it it must be true eh!

        “The existence of certain racial Jewish facial features is part of the lexicon of American culture.”

        Again stereotypical ‘facial features’ do not make a ‘race’. Plus, the vast majority of American Jews are European, and look like Europeans. They look nothing like Middle Eastern or Indian Jews.

        “I do not think highly of strangers telling me what is a jew.”

        Sorry if I’m not obliged to indulge your little fantasies.

        Again, if you can tell me what a Jew in LA has in common with a Jew in Isfahan, other than religion, I’d be genuinely interested in hearing it.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 7, 2018, 5:10 pm

        Complex historical processes of self identification cannot be negated merely by citing the Jew from Isfahan. maybe the term race is inaccurate but there is something in play in the Jewish identity that is far too intricate to be dissolved on your simplistic simplification. The history of hate is also a history that has to be figured into self identity as well. Race is a construct (not scientific) and nation is certainly a construct. a little humility would be helpful, but I do not expect it from you.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        August 7, 2018, 5:34 pm

        “Complex historical processes of self identification cannot be negated merely by citing the Jew from Isfahan.”

        It must be very complex indeed, if you can’t mention a single thing a Jew from one country has with a Jew from another – other than religion. I could say the same about a Catholic from Argentina and a Catholic from the Philippines, but I’d never claim they were a ‘race’ or even a ‘nation’.

        “there is something in play in the Jewish identity that is far too intricate to be dissolved on your simplistic simplification.”

        Members of lots of religious groups may ‘identify’ with their co-religionists in other parts of the world, but again, that doesn’t make them a ‘race’.

        “The history of hate is also a history that has to be figured into self identity as well. ”

        So a sense of eternal victimhood is a marker of ‘nationhood’ now is it?

        “Race is a construct (not scientific) and nation is certainly a construct.”

        To some extent yes. However, usually to be called a ‘nation’ and certainly a ‘race’ you would be expected to have certain things in common with other members of that group. The only common feature which Jews worldwide share is religion, which makes them no more of a ‘nation’ than Catholics or Buddhists.

        maybe the term race is inaccurate but there is something in play in the Jewish identity that is far too intricate to be dissolved on your simplistic simplification. The history of hate is also a history that has to be figured into self identity as well. Race is a construct (not scientific) and nation is certainly a construct. a little humility would be helpful, but I do not expect it from you.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 7, 2018, 5:55 pm

        “Complex historical processes of self identification cannot be negated merely by citing the…”

        …Israeli Government. The Government of Israel is the only one questioning Jewish self-identification, “Yonah”

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 7, 2018, 6:15 pm

        ” Race is a construct (not scientific) and nation is certainly a construct. a little humility would be helpful, but I do not expect it from you.”

        Oh “Yonah” you poor schlub, I don’t know who told you Jews can racialize themselves into an aristocracy, but it doesn’t work that way.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 7, 2018, 6:28 pm

        Shorter “Yonah”: ‘It’s anti-Semitic to say that Jews are just like other people. How dare you!’

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 7, 2018, 9:20 pm

        Ouch. Simplistic simplifications. That’s a gotcha right there.

        “a little humility would be helpful, but I do not expect it from you.”

        Practice that one while looking in a mirror.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976
        August 8, 2018, 9:11 am

        ‘Shared physical and genetic characteristics’ seems to put most people into several races at once by the time you’ve considered height, eye colour, acuteness of hearing, proneness to certain diseases, dexterity and so on indefinitely. I would still say, without offence to Yonah I hope, that almost every idea of being Jewish that I know refers in some important degree to ancestry, perhaps without unanimity on what degree of ancestry is required. Some say that ‘the anti-Semite makes the Jew’. I don’t speak for anti-Semites but I would think that the ‘hated set of ancestors’ usually means something to them.

      • Maximus Decimus Meridius
        Maximus Decimus Meridius
        August 8, 2018, 3:22 pm

        “‘Shared physical and genetic characteristics’ seems to put most people into several races at once by the time you’ve considered height, eye colour, acuteness of hearing, proneness to certain diseases, dexterity and so on indefinitely”.

        But you know what I mean though. Look at someone of Chinese origin, of Swedish origin or of Nigerian origin and you can clearly tell they are from different races. Look at Jews from different regions and you will see that they probably resemble other people from those regions more closely than they resemble Jews in other parts of the world.

        “. I would still say, without offence to Yonah I hope, that almost every idea of being Jewish that I know refers in some important degree to ancestry.”

        Not according to the state of Israel. If a person born to Jewish parents converts to a different faith he/she will not be considered a Jew in the eyes of the state. By contrast, if a Catholic or Hindu converts to Judaism he/she will have that ‘privilege’.

        And again the ‘ancestry’ in question is religious in nature – a Jew either practices the religion of Judaism or is descended from somone who did. They do not share a common (even if distant) geographical origin, as members of a certain race do.

        Jews are not a race, no matter how elastic you make the term. Ethnicity, at most.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 8, 2018, 5:13 pm

        “Jews are not a race, no matter how elastic you make the term.”

        I see no reason why Jews should not be allowed all the rights, benefits and privileges contingent on being a “race”, if that is what they want.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 8, 2018, 5:25 pm

        “By contrast, if a Catholic or Hindu converts to Judaism he/she will have that ‘privilege’.”

        I don’t think so. In any case, a determination will be made by Israel, not by some flushigginner diaspora Rabbi.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 12, 2018, 4:10 pm

        The identity that Jew = religion has too many contradictions to be comfortable for most Jews. Do I stop being Jewish when my belief changes? Am I jewish only when I believe, does my Jewishness fade in my moments of doubt?

        Inevitably (because of the nature of human hatred) conversion was seldom enough to erase the problem of Jewishness when the feces hit the fan. Jewish blood was a problem for conversos in 1492 spain and was fatal for 1942 Jews under the rule of the Nazis. They could not point to the Jew from Isfahan and prove that it was only a faith. Reality was much stronger and deadly than that.

        When the primary Jewish community outside of Israel is in America with assimilation in ascendancy the question of identity is confused and confusing. Frankly I can translate this as follows: as the jews disappear as a group, as their cohesion as a group fades, the identity for the individual is inconsistent and difficult to discern.

        Thus those who have the clarity of blanket statements is attractive. Well, choosing between the positive and the dubious, let me listen to the positive. maybe, but i’m dubious.

        the jewish community in its variety of colors and origins is a few generations removed from the radical insecurity of 41 to 45, and maybe a few generations away from total disappearance and in between, we’d appreciate if you expert outsiders take a moment to ask questions before you declare from Olympus your definitions.

        on sunday night i would watch ed sullivan on tv and wait for the jewish comic. there was nothing religious in his spiel. nor would i say to myron cohen (or alan king or marty allen or jerry stiller or mike nichols or elaine may or woody allen) : you’re not jewish because you have nothing in common with the jew from isfahan. that’s just 7th grade smoking in the boys’ room rhetoric. gets respect that it does not deserve from adolescents rather than students of history.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 13, 2018, 4:56 pm

        ” that’s just 7th grade smoking in the boys’ room rhetoric”

        Now, “Yonah” don’t you fill me up with your pilpuls, cause everybody knows that smokin’ ain’t allowed in school.

  9. amigo
    amigo
    August 6, 2018, 7:36 pm

    This article by the Electronic Intifada is worth a read.

    Note the support for Hodge (Her Father was an Oppenheimer) from folks like Ed Milliband and others of the LFI gang.

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/new-assault-corbyn-aims-ban-criticism-israel-labour

  10. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    August 7, 2018, 8:05 am

    The entire UK MSM inc sadly it would seem Channel 4 news is now definitively collaborating in the JC “Anti – Semitism” savaging. I like others on MWeiss have alternated between seeing it as a pathetic Zionist farce on the one hand and on the other a serious and sustained threat to UK standards and traditions of democracy and free speech. I am now definitely tending towards the latter. As for JC`s reaction to the accusations I agree that a streefighter like George Galloway would have ripped the Zios and their Bliarite Judases to shreds on this. Unfortunately I don`t think political fistfighting is in Jeremy`s nature and the hyena Zios and their nauseating Labour collaborators recognise this and are desperate for a quick kill .

    On the positive side he continues to weather the storm.He continues to have the support of the younger generation (and a significant proportion of the older generation) and as I have said before the British public in general are not fools and the rat stench from all of this is becoming overpowering. It all adds up to a ” WTF is going on here exactly scenario” when the penny will drop that a minute proportion of the UK population is trying to undermine UK democracy on behalf of a foreign government.

    Speaking of Zioland a reminder to Labour party supporters to question their MP`s directly on their views now that there is a South Africa Mark 2 in the Middle East. In particular they should put the Labour Friends of Apartheid on the spot. Their detials can be found at:
    http://www.lfi.org.uk/in-parliament/
    And for you Tory Party supporters who oppose Apartheid (they do exist) apparently 80% of your Tory Parliamentary representatives are Friends of Apartheid:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Friends_of_Israel

    I agree with Bob-Salad that JC should get out on the road if only to remind the general public of the depth of support which he has particularly amongst the younger generation.

    Meanwhile it is obviously worth investigating the murky world of the Zionist lobby in the UK. I think that the Al Jazeeera documentary revealed just the tip of the iceberg.

    And the Pine Islamhobic saga has yet to unfold. Questions should be asked why this revolting creature has not been expelled from the BDBJ – she has merely been suspended for six years :
    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/board-of-deputies-urgent-review-roslyn-pine-1.465500
    Note her comment:
    “I have views that offend people. That is what a free society is. To criticise a religion — including Judaism — I have no problem with that. In a free society you should be able to criticise a body of ideas.”

    LOL

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius
      August 7, 2018, 11:07 am

      “Unfortunately I don`t think political fistfighting is in Jeremy`s nature and the hyena Zios and their nauseating Labour collaborators recognise this and are desperate for a quick kill .”

      This is the thing.

      I think Corbyn’s flaw – perhaps his fatal flaw – is that he assumes that everyone is as decent and reasonable as he is. He simply cannot understand the deep cynicism of those who would do anything – including happily exploiting anti semitism – to ensure he never becomes PM.

      But it is clear that this ‘row’ is not going to go away. Look at today’s Manchester Guardian. Headlines about the Sainted Dame Margaret whining about a ‘purge’ of Corbyn’s critics, when she in fact got away with defaming her boss in public and didn’t even get a slap of the wrist. Another piece asking us to ‘lay off’ poor Tom Watson. Of course, ask where the latter got his 5 figure campaign donations from and then you’re a you-know-what…..

    • amigo
      amigo
      August 7, 2018, 6:37 pm

      “Complex historical processes of self identification cannot be negated merely by citing the Jew from Isfahan. maybe the term race is inaccurate but there is something in play in the Jewish identity that is far too intricate to be dissolved on your simplistic simplification. ” Jonah Fredman –aka Wondering Jew.

      That,s the best explanation of Zionism I have ever read.

      Say Jonah , does wondering Jew share your distaste for White Bread and Mayonaise .

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 8, 2018, 12:04 am

        Slightly off topic, but could someone explain this “white bread” thing?

        When the song “Uptown girl” was released, those of us outside the US knew (from context) what “white bread world” meant, but we didn’t know why it was called that.

        When we were young in Australia, there were two types of bread. There was white bread, which everyone ate, and brown bread, which your grandmother said was good for you, was slightly more expensive, and no-one liked. So we couldn’t see anything special about white bread.

        What, then, are the sociological implications of white bread in the US?

        And while we are about it, what’s so special about mayonnaise, aside from the fact that Richard Brautigan used it as the last word?

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 8, 2018, 11:00 am

        “Say Jonah , does wondering Jew share your distaste for White Bread and Mayonaise .”

        As I remember, “Yonah” likened assimilation to the dyspepsia resulting from consuming culturally opposed foods.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 8, 2018, 4:51 pm

        The stereotype: Jews eat corned beef on rye bread with mustard while the nonJew eats some meat with mayo on white bread, as in this paragraph from a Vincent Canby review of Woody Allen’s Hannah and her Sisters:
        “It is one of the extraordinary aspects of the film that ”Hannah and Her Sisters” is most secure when it’s being least self-consciously funny. Mr. Allen skates very near the edge of any reality when we see Mickey, who’s planning to convert to Catholicism, return to his apartment with a newly purchased crucifix and a portrait of a soulful Christ, as well as a jar of Hellman’s mayonnaise and a loaf of Wonder Bread. It’s funny, but not as profoundly funny as when Mickey contemplates a real suicide.”
        https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/09/movies/film-view-woody-allen-tops-himself-again.html

      • annie
        annie
        August 8, 2018, 6:33 pm

        yonah, while that may be a jewish stereo type of your food vs ours, it’s not a stereotype non jews would embrace or necessarily even heard of. and if the reverse was stated about jewish food, it would be considered anti semitic. although others have probably, certainly, informed you before, your stereotype is bigoted. i currently have 3 jars of mustard in my fridge and other than sourdough french bread, have not eaten white bread since i was a little girl. i don’t care how many times you repeat it, non jews know how to eat good food too — although we don’t generally eat culinary specialities like gefilte fish.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 8, 2018, 5:43 pm

        “The stereotype:”

        “Yonah”, your stereotype has an impeccable provenance, and is considered authoritative when an appeal-to-stereotype is made.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 8, 2018, 8:16 pm

        “we don’t generally eat culinary specialities like gefilte fish.”

        I’ll see your gefilte fish, and raise you two lutefisk’s.

        And anyway a White Bread-and-Mayonnaise sandwich is nothing more than a Kosher BLT.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 8, 2018, 8:40 pm

        Mr. Wanderingjew’s idea of “Jewish” really doesn’t look to be from first-hand acquaintance.

        At least, he seems to be feeding himself a rather distant, hazy image of Polish-or-Bielorussian idea of food.

        The Jews I know (traditional ones in the extended family, not in imagination) wouldn’t eat that in their worst nightmares.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 8, 2018, 9:30 pm

        OK. White bread is Gentile, rye bread is Jew. So far, so good.

        But why, then, does the song imply that it is a class issue (white bread – upper, brown bread – lower) rather than a religion/ethnic issue?

        (When we were young, the only rye bread we had heard of was black bread eaten by prisoners in Siberia.)

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 8, 2018, 9:38 pm

        The great Chef Rabbi Wise “frequently argued that oysters were kosher and, it can be assumed, he ate them. “There can be no doubt,” Wise wrote in The American Israelite in 1895, “that the oyster shell is the same
        to all intents and purposes as the scales to the clean fish, protecting against certain gases in the water.”

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus
        August 9, 2018, 2:59 am

        It’s still a 100% class issue here, RoHa. Only, things got inverted since the song came out: now it’s the lean toff who eats fancy ethnic foods and black bread at $6 a loaf, while the obese pauper eats at Sam’s and (still) buys Wonder Bread.

        Guess what class Mr. Wandering is talking about.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 9, 2018, 3:04 am

        Amigo “quoted” something I wrote over a year ago and then Roha asked a question and I answered it. I’m sorry for indulging Amigo’s puerile quotation and plan to ignore any questions regarding his puerile quotations in the future.

        For the record: I avoid spicy food including mustard and find mayonnaise much easier on my digestive system. I am not sure whether my digestive problems are genetic or not.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 9, 2018, 4:04 am

        In order to move our discussion (whether one develops or not is questionable) in a more humorous and possibly productive direction here is an early tv clip of myron cohen. dissect this for stereotypes and maybe we will progress in our discussion of the jews as an ethnic group.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiOk3vmuhOE

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 9, 2018, 9:11 am

        || wondering jew: In order to move our discussion (whether one develops or not is questionable) in a more humorous and possibly productive direction here is an early tv clip of myron cohen. dissect this for stereotypes and maybe we will progress in our discussion of the jews as an ethnic group. ||

        You appear to be making the point that Newfoundlanders (jaysus, bye!) are an ethnic group. That’s nice. But it doesn’t entitle them:
        – to a supremacist state of any kind; or
        – to do evil unto others.

        Same goes for any ethnic group. You should be able productively and progressively to understand this…but you won’t, or you’ll pretend not to.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 9, 2018, 4:18 pm

        ” I’m sorry for indulging Amigo’s puerile quotation”

        Don’t you mean your “puerile quotation”? He was quoting you.

        “For the record: I avoid spicy food including mustard and find mayonnaise much easier on my digestive system.
        I am not sure whether my digestive problems are genetic or not”

        “Yonah” don’t worry yourself, which invariably leads to more heartburn. Get tested, and find out for sure. That way, nobody can blame your preference for mayonnaise on apostasy.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer
        August 9, 2018, 8:53 pm

        @eljay
        “But it doesn’t entitle them:
        – to a supremacist state of any kind; or
        – to do evil unto others.”

        Jesus Mary and Joeseph. There goes our weekend plans. Da b’ys are gonna be rotted. Oh me nerves.

        Oh well another weekend on George Street with a few brew, lard jumpin.

      • RoHa
        RoHa
        August 10, 2018, 1:23 am

        So in the US, when the song came out, poor people ate the expensive brown bread, and richer people ate the cheap white bread?

  11. Sulphurdunn
    Sulphurdunn
    August 7, 2018, 12:18 pm

    Humanism and the Enlightenment are everywhere on the ropes. It’s time to stop covering up and time to counterpunch before the lights go out again.

    • gamal
      gamal
      August 7, 2018, 1:47 pm

      “time to counterpunch”

      keeping in mind who has earned a slap, as Salvatore Giuliano said “God protect me from my friends”

      “Social Imperialism in the 21st century
      Owen Jones, Paul Mason & the problem with the UK left”

      “Owen Jones and Paul Mason are widely considered to be the UK’s pre-eminent left-wing commentators; both appear frequently on television and radio, write regularly for mainstream publications like The Guardian and The New Statesman, have had books published (and subsequently translated into multiple languages) and attract enormous followings on social media: as of August 2018, their Twitter accounts have 742,000 and 597,000 followers, respectively. By many of their detractors on the right, Jones and Mason are depicted as socialists and radicals, members of what is referred to dismissively in the UK as the “looney left.” Indeed, both men claim to be socialists and Marxists of some kind themselves. However, …..”

      “Jones’ position on Palestine is an illuminating point of entry into this discussion as it is symptomatic of a broader trend concerning the often stark contrast between the perception and reality of his stances. Jones positions himself prominently as a “passionate supporter of Palestinian justice”; he speaks at Palestine-related events and regularly writes social media posts about the cause that are then shared many thousands of times. But beneath this veneer of solidarity, Jones opposes the Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions [BDS] movement. Speaking to The Jewish Chronicle in April 2017, Jones declared that he does not support BDS as it could “end up indiscriminately targeting Jewish people,” an inherently flawed position that conflates BDS’s call for a boycott of Israeli institutions and companies with individual “Jewish people.” This argument, one that is frequently used by Zionists to falsely portray BDS as anti-Semitic, is debunked by one of the movement’s co-founders, Omar Barghouti, in the following clip, in which he also explains cogently how—through its conflation of all Jewish people with Israel—opposition to BDS on such grounds is anti-Semitic in itself”

      https://mronline.org/2018/08/06/social-imperialism-in-the-21st-century/

      • annie
        annie
        August 7, 2018, 4:15 pm

        supporting bds is the “red line”, he’d lose all those speaking engagements and would not be allowed on the msm. if that was not the case he’d come out in favor of it as it’s the only non violent resistance towards israel that has any chance of having an impact.

    • JWalters
      JWalters
      August 8, 2018, 8:54 pm

      Yes. Time to rip off the covers. It needs to be done strategically, but with decisiveness and force.

  12. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    August 7, 2018, 1:56 pm

    @MDM
    “Not to mention that Hodge has known Corbyn for decades. If he is such a f****ing anti semite, surely she should have become aware of it rather sooner? Also, some clever chappy did a search on her Twitter feed. She’s been posting on Twitter for 8 years, but the first reerence to anti semitism was just a few months ago”

    This is the same Hodge who fully supported the Iraq war at the time afterwards only admitting it was a “big mistake” late in the day when the tide of opinion in her (then Bliarite) party was turning.
    Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Iraq war.
    Not to mention that Hodge has known Corbyn for decades.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2006/nov/18/uk.iraq

    As for JC`s dramatic incarnation as an “anti -Semite ” and a “racist” with or without the “F” word it would appear that Hodge has had an apocalyptic revelation of some kind. Her previous criticisms and attacks on JC appear to focus on his alleged “Trotskyism” – no mention of racism or Anti -Semitism for example in this August 2016 interview. I wonder why:

    https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Document:Margaret_Hodge_reflects_on_Jeremy_Corbyn

    BTW Trotsky was Jewish.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius
      August 7, 2018, 4:24 pm

      Ah… but was he a GJew (aka Tory or Blairite) or a Bad Jew (aka Corbyn supporter)?

    • Mooser
      Mooser
      August 8, 2018, 9:46 pm

      ” Her previous criticisms and attacks on JC appear to focus on his alleged “Trotskyism”

      And as a staunch Stalinist, Hodge is in favor of giving Corbyn her awl.

  13. annie
    annie
    August 8, 2018, 4:50 am

    on this very topic norm finkelstein is at his best (again) during this interview beginning at around 40 minutes. don’t miss it.

  14. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    August 8, 2018, 10:15 am

    Boris Johnson the former UK Foreign Secretary who once declared himself to be a “passionate Zionist:
    https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/boris-johnson-zionist/
    is apparently in hot water over his disgusting Islamophobic remarks about Muslim women burkas etc:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45096519
    The Zios may well be in a panic over this and of course will be seriously annoyed with their good buddy Boris as the story has the potential to derail their ongoing savaging of Jeremy Corbyn and it`s current pride of place as the never ending lead story in the MSM.
    At the moment BJ has been asked by Theresa May simply to apologise which he has refused to do. NB If it had been a Labour Party figure commenting on Ultra Orthodox Jewish women`s dress it would be seized upon as horrendous existentially threatening “Anti – Semitism” “anti – Judaism” “anti – Zionism” whatever WGAFA and there would have been calls for immediate expulsion from the party,prosecution,bring back hanging etc. For information Boris:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ultra-orthodox-rabbi-issues-letter-warning-to-women-it-is-a-sin-to-wear-skirts-revealing-their-knees-a7322726.html
    I wonder what he would have to say to the worthy rabbi on this.
    I also wonder what he would have to say about Jewish women who wear the even more extravagant full covering burka. I expect being a Zio suckler if the subject came up he would insist on this being respected as an ancient traditional existentially threatened cultural heritage:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/7919501/Israeli-rabbis-clamp-down-on-burka.html

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      Maximus Decimus Meridius
      August 9, 2018, 11:40 am

      Good ol’ Jonathan Freedland (he never disappoints, does he?) wrote a piece about Boris Johnson in The Guardian and of course managed to make it about Jeremy Corbyn and ‘anti semitism’. And they wonder why the Graun is constantly begging its readers for funds?

  15. Ossinev
    Ossinev
    August 8, 2018, 1:29 pm

    Credit where credit is due and an indication that all is not Zio darkness in the UK MSM. There are chinks of light after all. Chanced upon this 6 day old article in the Independent newspaper here in the UK commenting on the arch A/S Jeremy Corbyn and the horrendous existentially threatening A/S crisis in the Labour Party:
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/antisemitism-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-jewish-holocaust-survivor-abuse-a8474846.html
    Worth reading the comments as well.

  16. inbound39
    inbound39
    August 8, 2018, 4:20 pm

    Row without End? No, not really. All it takes is Jeremy Corbyn to stand up and level the facts at Jewish Labour Movement and Friends of Israel, and their direct links to the Israeli Government and the tide will Turn. Level accusations of a Foreign Power meddling in British Politics to normalize Apartheid and watch the sparks fly and see the Israeli’s run. Corbyn has to do it. He has no other choice if Freedom of Speech and British Politics is to be saved. Friends of Israel have a tight grip on Australian Politics now and if you close your eyes and listen to Malcolm Turnbull you hear Netanyahu. Just like you hear Netanyahu speaking when Trump or Kushner speak. It is time to out Israel large for its meddling in Foreign Politics. Friends of Israel tried to meddle in Kiwi Politics when the Dead Sea Cosmetic crowd was run out of New Zealand and when the NZ Government supported the Anti settlement Resolution at the UN. The People of New Zealand shut them down. Same thing when they attacked Lord. They learnt Kiwi’s run the Government….not paid politicians.

  17. CigarGod
    CigarGod
    August 8, 2018, 8:40 pm

    Very nice…but Damit!…yes, 150 are dead, but 2000 wounded are not and will suffer for the rest of their lives.
    Imo, we focus on the wrong number.
    We mourn the dead, but they no longer suffer.
    At the very least, can we please focus on those who still live?

  18. PeaceThroughJustice
    PeaceThroughJustice
    August 9, 2018, 12:34 am

    How tired I am of these articles that begin, “As a Jew, I resent the racism …” They’re a Mondoweiss speciality. But what does one’s ethnicity possibly have to do with opposition to racism?

    May I humbly suggest taking a stand as a human being. It may feel lonely at first, but who knows, the example you set may prove contagious, and your Zionist brothers may to begin to wake up. You can show them that it is possible.

    • annie
      annie
      August 10, 2018, 10:23 am

      “Over the decades Dame Vivien’s foundations have also donated extremely large sums – as she told Ha’aretz, “a few hundred million pounds at least” ”

      these people donating 100’s of millions to israel — what could go wrong.

  19. Wiljum
    Wiljum
    August 10, 2018, 5:58 am

    Palestinians, and all arabs, are also semites. This is rarely mentioned & it would be good to see this emphasised more in all articles relating to anti-semitism related to Israel.

    • Nathan
      Nathan
      August 10, 2018, 9:44 am

      Wiljum – There are no semites. The only correct use of the term is “Semitic languages” (there are a few Semitic languages). So, it’s good that it is rarely mentioned that the Arabs are semites, because it would be a nonsense statement. Sometimes, one hears that “so-and-so” has semitic features. This is also a nonsense statement.

      Antisemitism is a 19th century term which means hatred of Jews. There is no other meaning of antisemitism. Technically speaking, the term “antisemitism” is also nonsense (what is “semitism”). However, the term was coined in 1879, and it is only about the animosity against Jews (it was about political activism that was meant to deny the Jews of Europe civil rights).

      • annie
        annie
        August 10, 2018, 10:06 am

        There are no semites.

        someone alert websters! https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Semites

        it’s good that it is rarely mentioned that the Arabs are semites, because it would be a nonsense statement.

        Definition of Semite
        1 a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs
        b : a descendant of these peoples
        2 : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language

        who’s spouting nonsense!

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 10, 2018, 1:10 pm

        “– There are no semites” “Nathan”

        “Nathan” becomes very alarmed at the thought that Jews might be in some way related to Arabs.

      • Mooser
        Mooser
        August 10, 2018, 1:16 pm

        “it was about political activism that was meant to deny the Jews of Europe civil rights.”

        What next “Nathan”? Do you plan to suggest the Jews of Europe were simply nationals of those countries who happened to be Jewish, and not a people apart, exiled to Europe until the Land of Israel could be redeemed?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew
        August 12, 2018, 3:51 pm

        Whenever anyone introduces the semites argument, watch out, put on some galoshes because it might look like mud you’re wading through, but it’s brown and runny.

        If only the Jew haters from 1880’s central europe had come up with another name for it, we would be saved the ignorance and the sophistry and the 7th grade mentality.

        When people say, “death to america” they’re not talking about argentina they’re talking about the USA and similarly antisemitism is hatred of jews.

      • eljay
        eljay
        August 12, 2018, 5:44 pm

        || wondering jew: Whenever anyone introduces the semites argument, watch out, put on some galoshes because it might look like mud you’re wading through, but it’s brown and runny. … ||

        Yup, that’s exactly the case every time a Zionist introduces the “semites argument” to defend the actions of a deliberately and unapologetically oppressive, colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist state in the Middle East.

        || … When people say, “death to america” they’re not talking about argentina they’re talking about the USA and similarly antisemitism is hatred of jews. ||

        Yup, so every time someone says “death to the Zionist entity” they’re not talking about Jews in Europe or Asia or Africa or Australia or the Americas they’re talking about a deliberately and unapologetically oppressive, colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist state in the Middle East.

        If you Zionists would stop anti-Semitically conflating Zionism and Israel with all Jews and all Jews with Zionism and Israel you might actually understand this. (Thing is, I believe that you do understand this but, ultimately, you really don’t care.)

      • Talkback
        Talkback
        August 13, 2018, 5:33 am

        eljay: “(Thing is, I believe that you do understand this but, ultimately, you really don’t care.)”

        Nah. They hate themselves for being Zionists. And they want that every Jew who isn’t should share this self hatred with them so they can project this self hatred and call it antisemitism.

  20. HarryLaw
    HarryLaw
    August 12, 2018, 5:03 am

    Jeremy Corbyn is being assailed from all sides, now a third major Trade union leader has called on him to accept the full IHRA. Worse still he is being taunted and treated with utter contempt by the Board of Deputies, Professor Finkelstein was correct when he said… he knows these people, if he thinks they will be assuaged by him caving in to them he is seriously mistaken.
    “Meanwhile, the president of the Board of Deputies of British Jews has accused Jeremy Corbyn of hiding from the antisemitism crisis engulfing the Labour party and called on him to “come out of hiding” and face up to the issue.
    Marie van der Zyl said Corbyn had “seemingly disappeared” since last weekend, when he released a video and comment pieces, as she repeated a call for Labour to embrace the IHRA definition of antisemitism in full”. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/10/come-out-of-hiding-jewish-leader-marie-van-der-zyl-tells-jeremy-corbyn
    “The leader of a third major trade union has called on Labour to adopt in full the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s definition of antisemitism.
    The call from Paddy Lillis, the general secretary of shopworkers’ union Usdaw, comes after similar interventions by Unison and the GMB and intensifies pressure on Jeremy Corbyn to rethink Labour’s antisemitism code of conduct.
    The Labour party leader was also facing fresh questions about a 2014 visit to a Palestinian cemetery in Tunisia, after claims that photographs showed him holding a wreath near the graves of those responsible for the massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/11/third-union-boss-calls-on-labour-to-adopt-full-antisemitism-definiton

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