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I was wrong about anti-Semitism going away

Opinion
on 187 Comments

For the past 25 years or so I have had a running debate with Jewish friends, Is anti-Semitism over? I’ve argued that it is. That the incredible material/social gains by Jews in the U.S. that I have observed over my lifetime, reflecting an unprecedented degree of inclusion, mean that the era of the Jew as ridiculed/hated outsider is over. We will never be persecuted again as we were in Europe. And if there are occasional outbursts of bigotry, even violence, well, they are aberrations, they don’t affect our status, all groups are subject to malign acts…

My friends would respond, you are being roseate, your frame is limited, you can’t know what will happen. This is exactly how Jews felt in Berlin and Prague in the early 1900s, when we were at the top of so many modern professions. And I would say back, You are answering America’s open arms with paranoia. The last time was tragedy, yes; but history doesn’t repeat itself. The second time is a farce. Look at all the people who want to marry us.

Today I have to concede that I was wrong. Not in total, no; and I will never slip over to the paranoid way here, I am too grateful and lucky to do that. But as to the claim that anti-Semitism is over, I was wrong. The Poway California synagogue attack on the heels of the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre of last October shows us that if anti-Semitism wasn’t very visible, it didn’t go away. There are reservoirs of anti-Semitism in American society, one attack is not a one-off; and anyone entering a Jewish space in America today has got to be a little bit nervous. That’s vicious abiding anti-Semitism.

I can offer more disclaimers. These are marginal figures. Donald Trump is a fool who has let the demons out of the basement. Global warming and income inequality have made everyone haywire. But even these factors serve my opponents’ argument. They always said, Given social instability, you don’t know what will happen. “Civilization is just a thin tissue,” the late Peter Kaplan used to say to me. “When it tears, people go back to sect and tribe in a hurry.”

I still won’t go the whole nine yards. I don’t think there’s going to be another Holocaust. I think these forces are largely sequestered. If there’s massive social breakdown, other people are just as or more vulnerable than Jews. Like, Muslims. Refugees. We bestride the American power structure, the most obvious sign being our high incomes; and that won’t change. And yes, elite status is a source of resentment.

As to being wrong, what does it say about my worldview? How much else am I wrong about? I’m sure I’m not the only person who is shocked by the events of the last three years, and who has winced to think how many times I told others, You’re on the wrong side of history. Today I cannot say where history is going, I no longer hold a brief for the human race. Which doesn’t mean I won’t fight for the good and the right, but it’s not with my old confidence that they will prevail. I’m more conservative in my regard for social stability, closer to Kaplan’s “civilization is a thin tissue.” P.S. I had a beautiful vacation in Syria in 2006.

Revising my understanding of anti-Semitism does not make me a Zionist. If Jews are less safe in America or Europe today than we were ten or fifteen years ago, that doesn’t mean that we are safe in Israel/Palestine. We’re not. Jews are persecuting another people there and I believe the Arendt/Klug/Glazer/Shipman argument: that Israel’s actions are endangering the status of Jews elsewhere in the world. If there is a Jewish interest today, it is in taking Zionism apart, brick by brick down to the foundation, then making a new society.

And because it bears repeating: the threat to Jews here is from the rightwing. As we have said here many times, it’s not leftwing anti-Zionists who are endangering Jews. Despite what Jonathan Greenblatt and Bari Weiss and Benjamin Netanyahu want you to believe. (IfNotNow is most eloquent on this score.)

On the most personal front, I also wonder how much of what others said about people like me in years gone by– that he is coping with anti-Semitism by assimilating, that he has internalized anti-Semitism in befriending non-Jews and marrying one– I wonder if there is some truth to that. I wouldn’t change anything; I love my choices. Still I wonder if I missed some of the story.

Because that’s what I did. I missed some of the story.

H/t James North and Adam Horowitz. 

philweiss
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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187 Responses

  1. Citizen
    Citizen on April 30, 2019, 11:08 am

    RE: “… also wonder how much of what others said about people like me in years gone by– that he is coping with anti-Semitism by assimilating, that he has internalized anti-Semitism in befriending non-Jews and marrying one– I wonder if there is some truth to that. I wouldn’t change anything; I love my choices. Still I wonder if I missed some of the story.”

    As a gentile intermarried, maybe I missed some of the story too?

    • Mooser
      Mooser on April 30, 2019, 11:21 am

      “As a gentile intermarried, maybe I missed some of the story too?”

      If I ever said that to my wife, she would think it was big of me.

  2. Liz
    Liz on April 30, 2019, 11:09 am

    Beautiful, Phil, thank you.

  3. Mooser
    Mooser on April 30, 2019, 11:15 am

    “On the most personal front…”

    “This analysis is nothing new…”

    • Mooser
      Mooser on April 30, 2019, 11:35 am

      ” Still I wonder if I missed some of the story”

      You’ll find it at the link. And you’re welcome to it.

    • Boris
      Boris on May 1, 2019, 9:44 am

      hophmi is, as usual, absolutely right.

      To sum up – they don’t hate us for what we do, but for what we are.

      And if someone is weak and wants to disappear and not be a part of the tribe, like countless others, it is sad, but this only means that the ones that remain will be stronger.

      The issue with Phil and other self-hating Jews is that they work against us. They are worse than traitors and traitors are universally despised.

      So, yes, Phil, you were wrong, you are wrong, and looks like you will continue to be wrong.

      • eljay
        eljay on May 1, 2019, 10:21 am

        || Boris: hophmi is, as usual, absolutely right.
        To sum up – they don’t hate us for what we do, but for what we are. … ||

        It never ceases to amaze me how you Zionists routinely, deliberately and anti-Semitically conflate your ideology and your colonialist (war) criminal and religion-supremacist construct with all Jews in order to:
        – promote and defend your unjust and immoral actions; and
        – shield yourselves from responsibility and accountability for those actions.

        And it completely baffles me that you Zionists continuously strive to undermine international laws and human rights and the protections they are meant to afford all people including Jews.

        I cannot for the life of me comprehend why you Zionists hate Jews so much.

      • Boris
        Boris on May 1, 2019, 11:41 am

        @eljay

        While antisemites hate all Jews, they really hate — AND FEAR — the strong ones.

        Phil and his ilk are weak, disappearing, quetching Jews. The past showed that they either have no future or that their future miserable.

        Zionists, Israel — are the strong fighting Jews. The future is with them.

        Keep barking…

      • eljay
        eljay on May 1, 2019, 12:09 pm

        || Boris: @eljay

        While antisemites hate all Jews, they really hate — AND FEAR — the strong ones. … ||

        OK, so why do you Zionists hate Jews and really hate — AND FEAR — strong Jews so much?

        || … Zionists, Israel — are the strong fighting Jews. The future is with them. … ||

        …for a Thousand Years! (and maybe even forever). I know. But when the Zionist *ahem* “dream” falls short, you Zionists will be the first to throw Jews under the bus. It’s just who you are.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 1, 2019, 2:31 pm

        “Zionists, Israel — are the strong fighting Jews. The future is with them.”

        Oh, I see, the 50% (Israel) to 70% (US) out-marriage rate is really a Zionist recruiting strategy.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 1, 2019, 2:46 pm

        “The issue with Phil and other self-hating Jews is that they work against us. They are worse than traitors and traitors are universally despised.” “Boris”

        Gee, what a powerful argument. I’m sure it will have tremendous power in keeping Jews from abandoning Zionism.

      • Boris
        Boris on May 1, 2019, 10:58 pm

        “… it will have tremendous power in keeping Jews from …”

        All I am hoping is that it will stop you beating your wife.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 16, 2019, 5:37 pm

        “All I am hoping is that it will stop you beating your wife.”

        Don’t worry yourself over it. Downthread, “wondering jew” (he picked the name, not me) will assure you we don’t kill our wives, or get in knife fights at bars.

  4. Donald
    Donald on April 30, 2019, 11:21 am

    I agree with most of this post. But this following part seems poorly phrased at best–

    ” that he has internalized anti-Semitism in befriending non-Jews and marrying one– I wonder if there is some truth to that. ”

    So you have people telling you that you internalized anti-Semitism by befriending non-Jews and marrying one? And you think they are right?

    If you are around anti-semitic non-Jews, yes. Otherwise, no. Or do you think there is some intrinsic bigotries that people have by virtue of their ethnicity or religion?

    • Mooser
      Mooser on April 30, 2019, 12:25 pm

      “and marrying one”

      I married “one”, too. The only one.

      • John Douglas
        John Douglas on April 30, 2019, 1:45 pm

        I had trouble understanding the meaning of – internalizing anti-Semitism and it’s connections to marriage and friends. Perhaps it’s that I have so little respect for hidden-motive-hunting and all the nonsense it has produced, suffering too. But then it dawned on me that Phil may be referring to that vicious canard of the self-hating Jew. If ever there was instance of hidden-motive-hunting that was explicitly employed for venal purposes, this has to be the worst. I certainly hope that my nieces, nephew, grand nieces, grand nephews are able to parry it off unscathed if the time for that arises.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on April 30, 2019, 9:05 pm

        Hidden motives are wonderful.

        Low cost!

        No need for evidence!

        Totally unfalsifiable!

        (Anything that looks like a falsification can easily be dismissed by some plausible-sounding and question-begging explanation you cooked up on the spot. )

        Backed up by the best Freudian pseudo-science!

        Zero relevance to the truth of the claims!

        So get some hidden motives today, and be prepared for the next time you want to use argumentum ad hominem!

        You can’t go wrong.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 4, 2019, 4:40 am

        And for those who do not understand the concept of falsification, here’s some help.

        http://existentialcomics.com/comic/285

  5. CHUCKMAN
    CHUCKMAN on April 30, 2019, 11:43 am

    I am sorry, but no hatreds of any kind ever “go away.”

    That’s part of human nature, a good part of which is ugly.

    But in a sense, it doesn’t matter as long as we are well protected from its real effects.

    Hatreds are found everywhere and against many targets.

    Just as in the United States, it is easy to find millions who hate black people – the recent waves of anger about some football players respectfully kneeling during the national anthem as form of protest against police violence (American police, on average, kill three people a day) – proves that completely.

    What always matters is whether people’s hatreds are allowed to affect our communities, to hurt people, and the truth today, in advanced societies, is that they are not, not in any significant terms. There is no tolerance of hatred in the press or in the government or in our social institutions. That’s a big achievement.

    Jews can go to any university, apply for any job, and live where they please. That was not the case in America, say, seventy-five years ago, but it is today

    I also think it appropriate to recognize and not hide from the fact that Israel’s brutal behavior, as with snipers shooting down civilians in Gaza weekly, definitely makes a lot of people angry, people with and without any hatreds. After all, decent people would not be decent if they weren’t affected by such horrors.

    Of course, that’s why Israel has such an intense bias against liberals because liberals focus on human and democratic rights and the rule of law. The people in Israel who hate liberals – and there are many of them, I know from my reading – do so because they perfectly understand that they are themselves in complete violation of such principles, some of Western civilization’s finest social and intellectual achievements over centuries of struggle.

    It has been terrible to see a genuine criminal like Netanyahu display himself as a leader for the Jewish people. No, he is no leader. He is an extremist, full of hatreds himself, and there’s plenty of hatreds in Israel in general, as we see with respect to both the Palestinians and to black refugees and black Jews who attempt to live in Israel.

  6. eljay
    eljay on April 30, 2019, 11:50 am

    Every act of injustice and immorality (anti-Semitism, gay bashing, rape, murder, incest, pedophilia, FGM, torture, etc.) committed against any person or group demands that justice, accountability and equality be universally and consistently upheld and applied.

    Hateful and immoral fools like Zionists argue instead that acts of injustice and immorality against a person or group justify acts of injustice and immorality by that person or group.

    The kicker is that even as these fools work deliberately to undermine the (international) laws and human rights and the protections they are meant to afford all people including them, they hypocritically insist that they should be “singled out” and exempted from any application against them of their own “logic” of paying evil forward.

    Zionists truly are hateful and immoral hypocrites and fools.

    • eljay
      eljay on April 30, 2019, 8:25 pm

      || eljay: … Zionists truly are hateful and immoral hypocrites and fools. ||

      More correctly (and broadly-speaking): … Zionists and fools like them are truly hateful and immoral hypocrites.

  7. Stephen Shenfield
    Stephen Shenfield on April 30, 2019, 11:57 am

    “The past is never dead. It’s not even past.” William Faulkner

    When certain attitudes lose their respectability they disappear from the surface of public life. No one calls anyone else a nigger, yid, chink, dago etc. Not in public, anyway. But inside many families the filth is lovingly preserved and secretly passed on from each generation to the next. And then, gradually, at first almost imperceptibly, those attitudes start to regain respectability, here and there they tentatively break through into the open. Surprise, surprise!

    Partly because the era of classical fascism/Nazism and the struggle against it has now receded too far into the past. Those who have personal memories of that time are now dead or if alive very elderly, many are senile. Partly because some capitalists again feel the need to let loose the demons against the left.

    Look at Ukraine, perhaps that is our future too, where the Banderite vampires have risen from their graves and strut about in their uniforms, funded by local oligarchs — mostly of Jewish origin — and by Western/American officials — many of them also of Jewish origin. And they accuse us of antisemitism?!

    • Keith
      Keith on April 30, 2019, 6:27 pm

      STEPHEN SHENFIELD- “Look at Ukraine, perhaps that is our future too, where the Banderite vampires have risen from their graves and strut about in their uniforms, funded by local oligarchs — mostly of Jewish origin — and by Western/American officials — many of them also of Jewish origin. And they accuse us of antisemitism?!”

      Absolutely correct and something I have mentioned in the past. This support for neo-Nazis is extremely dangerous and an immoral business that bodes poorly for the future. There is, regrettably, a certain core similarity between the militarism of empire, of Israel, and of Nazi Germany. It is worth noting that Hitler was an admirer of how the US dealt with the native population and the Negro slaves. A quote from the 4/30/2019 article by Jonathan Ofir regarding an Israeli military prep school and the Rabbis praising “Hitler’s Nazi racist ideology as “100% correct”, only criticizing it for not being applied to the right people – that is, the Jews should be the master-race, and non-Jews the ‘untermenschen’.”

      “[Hitler] is the most righteous person. Of course he is right in every word he utters. In his ideology he is right. There is a male world which fights, which deals with honor and the brotherhood of soldiers. And there is the soft, ethical feminine world [which speaks of] ‘turning the other cheek’. ‘And we [Nazis] believe that the Jews carry on this heritage, trying, in our words, to spoil the whole of humanity, and that’s why they are the real enemy.’ Now, he [Hitler] is 100% correct, aside from the fact that he was on the wrong side.” (Rabbi Giora Radler) https://mondoweiss.net/2019/04/israeli-military-praising/

    • Mooser
      Mooser on May 1, 2019, 3:46 pm

      “But inside many families the filth…”

      It is interesting to note that the alleged Poway shooter’s actions and beliefs have been forcefully repudiated by the 19 yr. old’s parents.
      Perhaps the Internet was in plum-loco parentis.

  8. lyn117
    lyn117 on April 30, 2019, 12:38 pm

    ‘“Civilization is just a thin tissue,” the late Peter Kaplan used to say to me. “When it tears, people go back to sect and tribe in a hurry.”’

    Well, I tend to agree. I also believe we live in a time and place of plenty and lack of plenty is a main driving force for the breakdown of “civilization”.

    I hope left-wing, anti-zionist Jews are part of my “sect” – those (as eljay puts it) who believe that justice, accountability and equality be universally and consistently upheld and applied.

  9. Mooser
    Mooser on April 30, 2019, 1:23 pm

    ” by assimilating, that he has internalized anti-Semitism befriending non-Jews and marrying one”

    Like, say, well over half, some say as high as 70%, of Jews do?

    • Citizen
      Citizen on May 1, 2019, 10:03 am

      Re Pew Poll of October 2013: Overall, the intermarriage rate is at 58 %, up from 43 % in 1990 and 17 % in 1970. Among non-Orthodox Jews, the intermarriage rate is 71 %.

      So American Jews grow ever more as Jew-Haters? Does that also mean, as other side of the coin, American non-Jews grow ever more as Jew-Lovers? (Im not talking about Hagee’s folks who look forward to rapturing up).

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 4, 2019, 12:15 pm

        ‘Citizen”, it just occurred to me, I wonder what the inverse of that well-over-half percentage might be. That is, what is the percentage of non-Jews (Christians all kinds, Bhuddists, Muslims etc.) who marry Jews?
        Somebody is getting the short end of the out-marriage percentage stick.

      • Citizen
        Citizen on May 10, 2019, 7:57 am

        “Mooser,:

        My first response to your question is to state the obvious: Jews are only 2% of US population.
        Second response: Polls of Jews regarding intermarriage are constantly taken, but nobody has polled the non-Jews who marry them. Further many Jewish religious leaders are concerned publicly with intermarriage statistics, but, apparently, no non-Jewish religious leaders are.
        Third response: Here’s all I could find further on the question you raise here: Why Do Jews Intermarry at a Much Higher Rate Than Others? http://jd.fo/vW3 via @jdforward

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 10, 2019, 1:32 pm

        “Further many Jewish religious leaders are concerned publicly with intermarriage statistics, but, apparently, no non-Jewish religious leaders are.”

        So when the Voice of Love calls the Jewish/non-Jewish couple ineluctably towards the Chapel in the Moonlight, only the Rabbi says it’s a wrong number?

        ” Why Do Jews Intermarry at a Much Higher Rate Than Others?”

        Well, I married my wife because she is smart. She has brains enough for any two people, which is about exactly the amount of brains a woman who marries me needs.

      • Citizen
        Citizen on May 10, 2019, 9:39 pm

        @ Mooser

        I don’t know why I married my Jewish wife, considering her mother threatened to pour boiling water on my head.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 11, 2019, 12:25 pm

        Being a trophy husband is great, but sometimes I miss the old silent-film days, and flirting with Olive Thomas. (43:00)

  10. annie
    annie on April 30, 2019, 3:19 pm

    i’m glad you wrote about this phil. a couple days before poway i had a wake up call.

    Donald Trump is a fool who has let the demons out of the basement.

    i read parts of the revolting poway manifesto on saturday (here: https://heavy.com/news/2019/04/john-earnest/) and understood better where it was coming from as a result of a bunch of internet searches that led to this wake up call. somewhere on a twitter feed someone posted a sort of debunking of dave rubin video. i had never watched much of his stuff but already knew i didn’t like him. he had on all these white nationalists but never called them on their racism and would then explain later he didn’t know that stuff about them.

    in the responses to that video someone dropped a video by an ex alt righter named caleb. his video “My Descent into the Alt-Right Pipeline”
    was very informative. i got a clearer understanding how these lost boys were getting brainwashed into being nazis. kids at a vulnerable age who feel somewhat lost as many kids do at this stage in life where their minds are very malleable. they hang out at these 8chan or (4chan?) places on the internet. i don’t recall any societal trend similar to this when i was young. it’s very dangerous. this poway kid, he literally believes his race is threatened, so much so to give his life for this cause. it’s almost unfathomable, reading the things he’s written in his manifesto.

    anyway, i had watched caleb’s video and noticed one of the people who heavily influenced him was one of the people featured on the rubin’s video. caleb also mentioned youtube philosopher natalie wynn (@ContraPoints), whom i was already familiar with, always smart impressive reasoning. i had not watched her for awhile and caught up with some of her more recent videos, including one on fascism breaking down the code words/terms of white nationalists (as well as the ben shapiro and jordan peterson groupies, people i’m familiar with). vice/hbo just did a special on her here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Nrz4-FZx6k

    it was the next morning that poway happened and there he was, 19 years old and brainwashed in this same way caleb had talked about. this is not merely trump letting demons out of the basement, this is a whole army of fresh white boys becoming radicalized off the internet at a very young age. it’s extremely threatening to our social fabric. i really don’t know where it’s going, but we need an antidote to it and we need it fast.

    i have not read the whole manifesto or seen it on the internet other than the segments in the heavy.com article (above) but it is downright frightening. here’s caleb:

    • Citizen
      Citizen on May 1, 2019, 10:28 am

      Considering how minorities have been treated in the USA, should white boys be concerned about this: For U.S. Children, Minorities Will Be The Majority By 2020, Census Says https://n.pr/1B6kDNg

      • annie
        annie on May 1, 2019, 1:41 pm

        no. but if they were the smart move would be to treat others the way you’d like to be treated.

  11. wondering jew
    wondering jew on April 30, 2019, 5:34 pm

    “The threat to Jews here is from the rightwing, ” Phil writes. True. But the threat to Jews in Western Europe is primarily from Muslims and it is primarily the left wing that tolerates or minimizes the threat to Jews from Muslims in western Europe.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on April 30, 2019, 6:01 pm

      “I think that viewing the jews as a distinct national or economic class that is antagonistic to other national or economic groups (particularly if one puts it in historical perspective without painting with too wide a brush) is a viable argument.” “wondering jew”

      So you’re getting what you want, “Yonah”. So what are you complaining about?

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on April 30, 2019, 10:15 pm

        Mooser- “The last time I walked in a spot that might be a target for NeoNazis was 37 years ago. I never hang out with Jews except to heckle them in etherspace. So it’s no skin off my back. Fuck those Jews who congregate. Let me play word games and get my jollies on mw.”

      • Mooser
        Mooser on April 30, 2019, 11:13 pm

        “Let me play word games and get my jollies on mw.” “WJ”

        And that was a word from our sponsor, “Yonah’s all-you-can-swallow Hasbara Pharmacy, Home of the Bottomless Pilpul Vile.”

        “Fuck those Jews who congregate” “WJ”

        Yeah “Jews who congregate” are just a bunch of minions. And ” Unfortunately, Hitler gave Anti-semitism a bad name”

      • Keith
        Keith on May 1, 2019, 12:39 am

        WONDERING JEW- “Mooser- “The last time I walked in a spot that might be a target for NeoNazis was 37 years ago.”

        Assuming that you are putting words in Mooser’s mouth, perhaps you can explain the strong Zionist support for Ukrainian neo-Nazis? Do you have positive vibes about Ihor Kolomoisky?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 1, 2019, 12:43 pm

        “Assuming that you are putting words in Mooser’s mouth”

        “WJ” could at least give a link, so others can read the remark in context.

  12. Jon66
    Jon66 on April 30, 2019, 5:54 pm

    “Today I have to concede that I was wrong. ”
    What’s next, an admission that the Earth is flat?
    There are none so blind as those who will not see.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on April 30, 2019, 11:24 pm

      I see what you’re saying “Jon66”. Since it’s the right-wing nuts who are attacking Jews, the only sensible thing to do is join ’em, so you’ll be on the winning side.

    • eljay
      eljay on May 1, 2019, 7:34 am

      || Jon66: … There are none so blind as those who will not see. ||

      Zionists would be the blindest of the blind if it weren’t for the fact that with open eyes and clear vision they routinely, deliberately and anti-Semitically:
      – conflate their hateful and immoral ideology and their colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist construct with all Jews; and
      – advocate, commit, support and/or defend their preferred brand of evil in the name of all Jews.

  13. Nathan
    Nathan on April 30, 2019, 8:37 pm

    At first it was quite surprising to read an article in Mondoweiss that wasn’t about some angle of the illegitimacy of Israel. However, as the article progressed, the central theme was nevertheless presented: “If there is a Jewish interest today, it is in taking Zionism apart, brick by brick down to the foundation…” (it’s in the supposed interest of the Jews to disestablish Israel).

    I would have thought that it’s in the interest of the Jews to find an understanding with the Arabs and to find a peaceful resolution of the conflict, but that’s the outlook of the regular non-anti-Israel world.

    Anyway, since the issue of antisemitism has come up, perhaps it might be interesting to correct some of the historical points that came up in the article. When Phil tells us that he had thought “the era of the Jew as ridiculed/hated outsider is over”, he is accepting as a fact that the source of antisemitic animosity is that the Jews are outsiders. Obviously, the most horrifying example of antisemitism (and a very recent example) is the Holocaust. The motivation of the Nazi regime to murder the Jews was not that the Jews are outsiders. The Jews were perceived to be the enemy of mankind, and ridding the world of their presence was regarded to be an act of self-defence in the face of a ruthless foe.

    Phil raises the issue of the high income of the Jews, telling us that “elite status is a source of resentment”. It should be obvious that the poor, non-elitist Jews were also hated throughout history. The Church had a policy throughout the Middle Ages of degrading and humiliating the Jews. No one thought that the Jews were an elite to be envied. The source of animosity is not resentment of Jewish success; rather, it was an ideology. Really, I’d suggest that Phil get his hands on a good academic research of the history of antisemitism.

    Finally, Phil feels the need to clarify that he is not a Zionist even after coming to his conclusion that antisemitism is for real (“that doesn’t mean that we are safe in Israel/Palestine”). Well no one suspected that he was about to change his anti-Israel ideology – however, Phil repeats the widely-believed perception that the source of Zionism is the reaction to antisemitism (and therefore he presents the traditional anti-Zionist argument that founding a haven for the Jews in Israel is not the right answer). Similarly, you will hear American Jews explaining that their great-grandparents immigrated to the USA “because of the pogroms”. Well, none of this is true. The immigration of Jews to America from Eastern Europe was a result of a population explosion and extreme poverty (notice, again, that there is a terrible animosity also to very poor Jews). The founding of Israel was a result of an ideology that aspired to fulfill the ancient dream of returning to a lost homeland. People who are fleeing from persecution don’t bother with the reviving of an ancient language. The revival of Hebrew and insisting that Palestine is the destination are an indication that the issue was ideology (the renaissance of the Jews).

    • Mooser
      Mooser on April 30, 2019, 11:19 pm

      Shorter “Nathan” ‘As goes the Right wing-nut, so goes the all-rightnik

      • Donald
        Donald on May 1, 2019, 10:03 am

        Nathan is trying to say that Zionism isn’t about Dreyfus or pogroms or the Holocaust–it was really about having a place to resurrect a dead language, sort of like the Esperantists or the nuttier Tolkien fans who learn Elvish or maybe the Star Trek fans who learn Klingon got together and decided to ethnically cleanse some people so they could have a place to do their language LARPing.

        Almost everyone else thinks Zionism was in part a reaction to antisemitism. But Nathan is here to correct that misconception.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso on May 1, 2019, 10:20 am

      @Nathan

      “The founding of Israel was a result of an ideology that aspired to fulfill the ancient dream of returning to a lost homeland.”

      Except it wasn’t their “homeland.” It was and is the homeland of the indigenous Palestinian Christian and Muslim Arabs who including their ancestors, have lived continuously between the River and the Sea for about 15,000 years. (BTW, about 10% of the Jewish population consisted of native Palestinian/Arab Jews who were vehemently anti-Zionist.)

      • eljay
        eljay on May 1, 2019, 10:42 am

        || Misterioso: @Nathan

        “The founding of Israel was a result of an ideology that aspired to fulfill the ancient dream of returning to a lost homeland.”

        Except it wasn’t their “homeland.” It was and is the homeland of the indigenous Palestinian Christian and Muslim Arabs … ||

        Geographic Palestine was the actual homeland of all the people (Muslims, Christians, Jews, atheists, etc.) living in and up to n-generations removed from it.

        It most definitely was not / still is not the historic, ancient, eternal, one true or (and this is a new one) lost homeland of every person in the world – every citizen of every homeland all over the world – who chose / chooses to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish.

      • edthespark
        edthespark on May 2, 2019, 8:50 am

        Misterloo

        I call people like you stepping stones base 1

        .Israel was the only state to ever exist in “palestine”.There are coins to prove this.Therefore there must have been a fully functioning society of jews living in a state.

        So why did i call you a stepping stone base 1.You are enabling the narrative that jews are bad people because they have no continous historical connection to israel.This is an outright lie.

        That is far as you go on this site.Base 1

        Other more hateful people who were raised to hate jews see in your narrative a confirmation of what they have been taught.They stand on your base 1 and move to base 2.
        Base 2 is virulent online anti semitism and other low level public acts of anti semitism.

        Base 3 is direct action such as the poway attack.

        I read through the poway shooters manifesto on 8 chan.I got a whiff of white christian hatred that has never gone away.They do not give a damn about arabs they just need any old excuse to act out there rage because white american power is under threat.They blame the jews for this.
        I say this much about people like rachel corrie.She had the courage of her convictions and challenged the israel government in israel.One has to respect that
        Posting lies on the internet is simply a cowardly act because you never get held accountable for your misdeeds.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 2, 2019, 4:42 pm

        “you never get held accountable for your misdeeds”

        I think the blog name “Mondowatch.com” is still available. Go for it, “edthespark”! Strike a blow for accountability! Publish in Hebrew and English.
        Just think of the lives you’ll save.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976 on May 3, 2019, 1:31 pm

        Interesting to see a reference to coinage.. There are indeed ancient Jewish coins, but I don’t think that they do – or could – prove that Israel was the only polity in ancient Palestine. See the Oxford History of the Biblical World, by no means an anti-Zionist tract, which mentions (p.319) the Letters of Zenon and the coinage of the time, the 200s BCE, and remarks ‘Along with coins minted in Jerusalem and along the coast, these letters demonstrate the extent of Egyptian/Macedonian bureaucratic incursions into all areas and all aspects of life – less prominent in Jerusalem than elsewhere’. What the coins seem to show is less the existence of a distinctive Jewish polity than the political and cultural unity of the Ptolemaic and the whole Hellenistic world.
        It’s true that this was the second phase of coinage, the first one arriving in the Persian period, though this too indicates the integration of Palestine into the international economy, with massive imitation of the style of the internationally dominant Athenian style. No doubt there was an important Jewish presence in the Persian province of Yehud but what do we mean by Jewish? It is a coin, the quarter-shekel of Yehud in the British Museum, which most reminds us of how nascent the classic form of Judaism then (c.350) was (OHBW p. 311), since it appears to disregard the famous and later fundamental rule against images of Yahweh. How many members of the community were Jewish by later or even by contemporary standards?
        There is no doubt that the Hasmonean/Herodian Kingdom existed, at its height reaching well beyond current Israel, for some two centuries and had a – to some degree defined the – Jewish religion and character by making an impressive Temple, with its sacrifices, priests and teachers, famous far and wide. But I cannot see how this fact – about something that in the workings of human affairs or of divine providence came and went – creates political rights now. And I cannot see why, by contrast, the kingdoms which existed within Palestine but were less than the whole of it or those that included Palestine as a province create no rights at all. Except for the mighty religious aura of the Book.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 4, 2019, 2:59 am

        ‘Israel was the only state to ever exist in “palestine”.’

        Fascinating the way Zionists pretend the Kingdom of Jerusalem never existed. Were I given to speculating on motives, I would suggest that they do not want to face the full analogy.

        The Kingdom of Jerusalem was a state set up by European invaders, and only lasted a short time before it was overwhelmed by the surrounding people. Not a promising precedent for Israel.

      • jon s
        jon s on May 4, 2019, 9:32 am

        MHughes,
        I regularly use coins when teaching the 2nd Temple period. A lot can be derived from them.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 4, 2019, 12:18 pm

        “I regularly use coins when teaching the 2nd Temple period.”

        Of course you do! What better way to show the kids that Zionism pays!

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976 on May 4, 2019, 12:44 pm

        I’m sure that’s true,, jon. As you know, I have great respect for your knowledge of such matters.
        Talking of coins and history I’ve just been reading ‘Domina’ by G de la Bedoyere, an account of some of the Roman empresses. I wouldn’t recommend it too warmly – a bit too much for me of an uncritical rehash of the salacious bits in Tacitus, but he does try to control the literary narrative by reference to coinage, about which he is well informed.
        Talking of empresses – I’m rambling a bit here – I suppose that if Titus and Berenice had been able, in the face anti-Semitism in the Senate, to get more romantic – even more romantic – we might have had a Jewish emperor in Rome c.100. Then there’d have been some interesting coins minted.

      • MHughes976
        MHughes976 on May 4, 2019, 12:54 pm

        Zionism Second Temple style did pay in the sense that its main objectives were fulfilled and Jews were to become a significant international presence, with their ‘theological masterpiece’, as S. Sand so rightly calls it, gaining wide interest. But the success seems to have come at the expense, as was to happen again, of ‘the people of the land’.

      • Nathan
        Nathan on May 6, 2019, 1:50 pm

        Perhaps, Misterioso, you could be so kind as to give us a name of a “Palestinian/Arab Jew” who was “vehemently anti-Zionist”. Actually, it would be very interesting to hear of a name of a Jew in the late 19th century or so who regarded himself to be an Arab. I, personally, can’t think of a single name. Today, you can find a handful of anti-Israel Jewish activists who call themselves “Arab-Jews”, but that’s a new phenomenon.

        Once upon a time, there were Arabic-speaking Jewish communities. They became Arabic speakers after the 7th century, of course, when the Middle East was captured by the armies of Islam. Although they became Arabic speakers, still, they were not Arabs in their own eyes, nor were they Arabs in the eyes of the Arabs. Today, obviously, the descendants of these communities are mostly Hebrew-speakers.

        The Arabic-speaking Jews were not anti-Zionist. There was a phenomenon of anti-Zionism in the Reform Movement, among the assimilationists, the Bund and Communists, and the ultra-Orthodox – but not among the Jews of the Middle East. The phenomenon here (at Mondoweiss) is generally an expression of the assimilationist brand of anti-Zionism.

    • Misterioso
      Misterioso on May 1, 2019, 11:14 am

      @Nathan

      Cut the bull crap!! You and your racist ilk have no case!!

      A brief look at the horrors Zionist Jews of foreign origin are inflicting on the native Palestinian Arabs, including children, while I write this:

      “Occupation is Slavery”
      EXCERPT:
      “In the name of occupation, generation after generation of Palestinians have been treated as property. They can be moved at will, shackled at will, tortured at will, have their families separated at will. They can be denied the right to vote, to own property, to meet or speak to family and friends. They can be hounded or even shot dead by their masters, who claim their position by biblical right, and also use them to build and work on the plantations the toilers cannot themselves ever hope to own. The masters dehumanize them, call them by the names of beasts.” (Bradley Burston, Haaretz, Feb. 26/13)

      Video:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3okA5dulBB8&fbclid=IwAR1tF4OvlJ1YXe8OebRQql7-XykAUpTJgAQcp8ZIt6REUpVNpJUeQfA3fC0
      “Gaza. Una mirada a los ojos de la barbarie” with English subtitles
      El Retorno Producciones – Published on Dec 28, 2018

      “GAZA,a short documentary, nominated for the Goya 2019. It tells the human rights violations suffered by the Gaza Strip after Israel’s latest attack Awards.” Directed by Carles Bover and Julio Pérez. Produced by El Retorno Producciones

      Video: https://www.youtube.com/wat
      Precarious Childhood: Arrests of Jerusalemite Children
      “This film addresses the process of arrest, interrogation, and the policy of house arrest and their effects on children. The film provides accounts of children who were arrested in order to highlight a larger policy of persecution and targeting of Palestinian children in Jerusalem.

      Video: ‘Stone Cold Justice’ on Israel’s torture of Palestinian children

      “A film produced by a group of Australian journalists has sparked an international outcry against Israel after it explicitly detailed Tel Aviv’s use of torture against Palestinian children.”

      “The film, titled ‘Stone Cold Justice’ documents how Palestinian children, who have been arrested and detained by Israeli forces, are subjected to physical abuse, torture and forced into false confessions and pushed into gathering intelligence on Palestinian activists. Australia’s foreign minister Julie Bishop has spoken out against Israeli’s use of torture stating that ‘I am deeply concerned by allegations of the mistreatment of Palestinian children,’ Israel’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor has described the human rights abuses documented in the film as ‘intolerable.’ But rights groups have slammed this statement, saying that the Israelis are doing nothing to change Tel Aviv’s policy to torture Palestinian children.

      “Last year a report by the United Nations International Emergency Children’s Fund or UNICEF concluded that Palestinian children are often targeted in night arrests and raids of their homes, threatened with death and subjected to physical violence, solitary confinement and sexual assault. The film Stone Cold Justice has sparked an international outcry about Israel’s treatment of children in Israeli jails. However, rights groups have criticized Tel Aviv for not doing anything to create a policy that protects Palestinian children against arbitrary arrest and torture.”

      Re: The Gaza Strip:
      Video: “Obliterated Families” http://obliteratedfamilies.com/en/story/shuheibar/

      The International Committee of the Red Cross: “The whole of Gaza’s civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, ratified by Israel, bans collective punishment of a civilian population.”

      “In practice, Gaza has become a huge, let me be blunt, concentration camp for right now 1,800,000 people” – Amira Hass, 2015 correspondent for Haaretz, speaking at the Forum for Scholars and Publics at Duke University.

      Video: Israeli TV Host Implores Israelis: Wake Up and Smell the Apartheid
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyyUvxHLYr4

      In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, issued in 2016,the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.” (U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor)

      • JWalters
        JWalters on May 1, 2019, 9:17 pm

        Thank you for the facts.

      • Nathan
        Nathan on May 6, 2019, 8:19 pm

        So, Misterioso, should I assume that you don’t have any names of “Palestinian/Arab Jews” who were “vehemently anti-Zionist”. You claimed that there was such a phenomenon, so I’m disappointed that you don’t have anything to back up your claim. You also forgot to mention the name of a 19th century Jew who claimed to be an Arab. It would have been okay to ignore my questions, and it would have been even better to admit that you don’t have an answer. But, really, your very long non-answer was quite unconvincing.

  14. Eric
    Eric on April 30, 2019, 9:38 pm

    I’ve often wondered whether Phil Weiss was a plant, running this site as controlled opposition to people who truly care about historic injustice inflicted on the Palestinians. Claiming America is a cesspool of anti-Semitism because two weirdos attack synagogues six months apart is absurd. He himself knows it, though sensationalism attracts more viewers. He claims to abhor it, but liberal Zionism seems to be Phil’s natural home.

    • DaBakr
      DaBakr on April 30, 2019, 11:20 pm

      @e

      roger that. because PW is a jew he must therefore be a “plant’ (and you have “often wondered”) incapable of holding anti-israel anti-zionist views and is secretly a zionist albeit a ‘liberal’ one. got it. genius. you have both insulted the owner of this blog and proved how much more ‘wrong’ he has to learn in his own journey.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 1, 2019, 1:08 pm

        “got it. genius.”

        “DaBakr”, some people just don’t understand that internalized-antisemitism and Jewish self hatred is a real thing.

        Sometimes I shudder when I think of how many Jews are victims of the “sad disease.” (pace “Hophmi)

      • DaBakr
        DaBakr on May 2, 2019, 3:47 pm

        @msr

        Uh yeah, I never had a problem with the whole self-hatred hand wringing thing. my philosophy is a lot like california . most problems can be solved with a combination of avacados, yoga, weed and dogs.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 2, 2019, 4:59 pm

        ” I never had a problem with the whole self-hatred hand wringing thing.”

        “DaBakr”, that’s what we all say until examined and diagnosed by a competent and board-certified Internalist.
        That’s just the way it works, the poor victim is always the last to know, or tries very hard to ignore the symptoms.
        Have yourself tested (more info at link) for internalised anti-semitism and Jewish self-hatred. It’s the only way to know for sure, and the results are private.

        After all, as Dr. Hophmi” says:

        “Self-hatred is a disease. It is a sad disease borne of many generations of persecution, but it is a disease. And (deleted, patient privacy) is afflicted with it, as many Jews have been in the past.”

        You could pick up a dose in your DNA and not even know it!

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 15, 2019, 8:38 am

        Roha
        That would be a good question for Boris

    • mondonut
      mondonut on April 30, 2019, 11:23 pm

      This is hilarious. On Mondoweiss even Phil Weiss is not anti-Israeli enough.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 14, 2019, 5:14 pm

        Johnny 66

        No you don’t “disagree” with the Nazis, who count Jews as a race, you hypocrite! You don’t, because you claim a “right of return”, a right to

        a nation-state in the Middle East under the exclusive sovereignty of people mythically descended, at least matrilineally, from some tribes said to have lived thousands of years ago in a small portion of Palestine, according to your own mythology invaded and appropriated by horrible acts of genocide. The only justification invoked for the Zionist claim on Palestine (and the Apartheid policy) is racial descent over thousands of years.

        As already repeatedly said. Being born to a tribe is purely racial. Ever heard of birds and bees?

        Also, if you still cannot understand the difference between dictionary definitions and checking actual usage of words, why can’t you inform yourself? Ridiculous.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 14, 2019, 10:08 pm

        Echi,
        I can’t be any clearer. Jews are not a race. The Nazis were wrong. There are Jews of many races.
        I can’t tell if you think Jews are a race or just want to insist I believe something that I have said clearly many times that I don’t.

        I don’t believe that anti-semitism is racism, but you have me so confused that I can’t tell what you think.

        I don’t think you understand the purpose of a dictionary. It’s used to define the meaning of words in actual usage. You just happen to have a definition of the word racism that is charitably described as “special”.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 15, 2019, 12:01 am

        John66

        Hilarious

        “I can’t be any clearer. Jews are not a race.”
        Of course they’re not; I told you 4 times now that you’re a hypocrite because you claim a right *of “return”* to Palestine (committing the high crimes of aggression and genocide) on the only basis that it is the land of your ancestors. Ancestors, ie progenitors, are strictly racial. If you need lessons about birds and bees, I can provide some.

        So you are lying, either in saying you don’t believe the racial theory, or in claiming Palestine.

        And you think that ignoring the question is enough response.

        What a …Zionist.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 15, 2019, 12:09 am

        Johnny 66 again

        “I don’t think you understand the purpose of a dictionary. It’s used to define the meaning of words in actual usage.”

        Sure I do — it doesn’t include looking up actual usage among the defined population. I told you 4 times, from the start, to do just that (it takes some work, made easy nowadays by extensive corpuses and search engines.) Not to copy inane dictionary entries. But obviously you refuse to understand plain English.

        What a Zionist…

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 15, 2019, 1:34 am

        “I can’t be any clearer. Jews are not a race. The Nazis were wrong. There are Jews of many races.”

        Very clear. Can you explain, then, what Boris means by saying “Jews are indigenous to Palestine”?

        (And his Ingushetian DNA proves it!)

    • Keith
      Keith on May 1, 2019, 11:06 am

      ERIC- “Claiming America is a cesspool of anti-Semitism because two weirdos attack synagogues six months apart is absurd.”

      Yes, particularly in view of the fact that what limited data made available indicates is that Jews are relatively safe compared to non-Jews. All of these tales of anti-Semitism avoid hard statistical data.

      “Lethal attacks on U.S. Jews in their homeland have been very rare, with Saturday’s mass shooting in Pittsburgh more than doubling the total number of fatalities” (David B. Green) https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-from-lynchings-to-mass-shootings-the-history-of-deadly-attacks-on-jews-in-america-1.6601089

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 2, 2019, 12:54 am

        Is David Green saying that the USA is the homeland of American Jews? He’ll get into trouble for that, surely.

      • Keith
        Keith on May 2, 2019, 10:58 am

        FOLKS- To try to put this in some sort of perspective, I call attention to the fact that in 2018 there were 103 US school shootings resulting in 60 deaths. Total US gun deaths for 2018 was 14, 623. We live in a violent, militaristic society under increasingly chaotic conditions.

        Link to school shootings data- https://everytownresearch.org/gunfire-in-school/#ns

        Link to total gun deaths- https://www.thetrace.org/2019/01/gun-deaths-2018-america-mass-shootings-suicide/

      • Keith
        Keith on May 2, 2019, 11:31 am

        ROHA- “Is David Green saying that the USA is the homeland of American Jews? He’ll get into trouble for that, surely.”

        Since very few people read Haaretz, he will be quite safe. Things can be said in Haaretz which cannot be said in the US media, just as Danaa’s comment below (5/2/2019 @ 2:52 am) could not be said by me.

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 2, 2019, 6:37 pm

        Keith, do you or someone have a link to an archived copy of David Green’s article? I can’t read haaretz premium articles any longer (can’t possibly subscribe to every paper out there, can we? how many readers have they lost, one wonders. Must be a rather limited hang-out these days).

        And yes, I know I can say some things and even detractors seem to make an effort not to misinterpret. But You will not receive that courtesy.

        I am thinking of expanding that comment to a stand-alone post – it’s been on my mond for some time to write something along those lines. But I could use some more good references.

        Thanks for taking note!

      • Keith
        Keith on May 3, 2019, 2:35 pm

        DANAA- “But You will not receive that courtesy.”

        For the latest example of what I cannot say, check out my blogspot. (I would provide the URL but that may cause problems)

        DANAA- “Keith, do you or someone have a link to an archived copy of David Green’s article?”

        No, I don’t. After I blundered on the article, I rapidly exhausted my free looks and can no longer read the article I linked. The quote is from the headline and does appear.

        DANAA- “I am thinking of expanding that comment to a stand-alone post ….”

        Good luck on that! The belief in irrational and eternal anti-Semitism is a core belief of Judeo-Zionism (obviously not Christian Zionism), and any attempt to show that Jews are not victims of never-ending Gentile hatred will be strongly resisted. According to Israel Shahak (with whom I concur), Zionism is a throwback to the beliefs of Classical (medieval) Judaism in secular form. I have come to believe that anti-Gentilism is inherent in Jewish Zionism.

        An additional thought. In my recent comments on this topic I refer to these as chaotic times. One under-appreciated element in all of this is the impact of the internet and social media. If you look at the history of the lynching of Blacks, you will find that it was almost always the work of a lynch mob in the throes of mob psychology. The use of social media has created the opportunity for provocateurs to create a virtual mob psychology among widely dispersed people causing some individuals to do things that they otherwise would not do without the sense of group support. (see: “Revolution in the Age of Social Media” by Linda Herrera) In other words, the social media is a powerful tool for the 1% to incite the 99% against each other. Just a thought.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 3, 2019, 5:01 pm

        Someone should inform these kids that there is no such thing as anti-semitism.
        “Pine Bush officials said about 2,300 students, or about 80 percent of those enrolled in its middle schools and high school, responded to the most recent survey last fall.

        Of those, 766 students said that in the previous year they “sometimes,” “often” or “frequently” saw or heard incidents of bias, including swastikas in school, anti-Semitic slurs, Holocaust “jokes,” the word “Jew” used in a pejorative sense, white power chants, Hitler salutes and other such behavior.”

      • eljay
        eljay on May 3, 2019, 6:41 pm

        || Jon66: Someone should inform these kids that there is no such thing as anti-semitism. … ||

        Anti-Semitism exists. Jewish supremacism exists.

        I say neither should exist.

        Zionists – hypocrites that they are – condemn the former but advocate, engage in, support and defend the latter.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 3, 2019, 8:01 pm

        Eljay,
        Keith believes it to be a trivial problem and not worth the effort expended upon it. It’s easy for him to say. I wonder if his place of worship has a security guard and a concrete barrier around the nursery school?
        I obviously disagree with about the nature of Zionism.

      • eljay
        eljay on May 3, 2019, 9:54 pm

        || Jon66: Eljay,
        Keith believes it to be a trivial problem … ||

        But I believe that it exists, that Jewish supremacism exists and that neither should exist. You, on the other hand…

        || … I obviously disagree with about the nature of Zionism. ||

        Obviously. The Islamist would “obviously disagree” with me about the “nature of” Islamism and I would be no less surprised by his disagreement than I am by yours.

      • Keith
        Keith on May 4, 2019, 11:33 am

        JON66- “Of those, 766 students said that in the previous year they “sometimes,” “often” or “frequently” saw or heard incidents of bias, including swastikas in school, anti-Semitic slurs, Holocaust “jokes,” the word “Jew” used in a pejorative sense, white power chants, Hitler salutes and other such behavior.”

        Since my first response to you didn’t pass moderation, I will make a second attempt utilizing appropriately euphemistic language, something you don’t have to worry about. I gather that the moderators share your concern in regards to anti-Semitism.

        My concern is how to evaluate the significance of anecdotal incidents of anti-Semitism versus other significant social concerns. Let me begin by noting that you have not provided a link to this “Pine Bush” story for me to read and evaluate. Apparently, we have yet again Jews complaining about anti-Semitism of a verbal nature. In high school. Did some of this verbal abuse include criticism of Israel, etc?

        During the last ten years, how many unarmed people have been gunned down by police officers? During the last ten years, how many Jews have been gunned down by police officers? What statistical data do you have to indicate that Jews are less safe than non-Jews? Are these not more relevant criteria in regards to anti-Semitism than what high school kids say they “sometimes” saw or heard (hearsay? rumors?) about incidents of bias? Would you not agree that historically Native Americans and Blacks have been the primary victim groups in the US? And that this victimization to some extent continues today? And that Jews are relatively privileged and safe?

        Jon66, perceived anti-Semitism is the mother’s milk of Jewish Zionism and you have been marinated in the ideology of Jews as eternal victims. Empirical data tells quite a different story. I have come to believe that honest polling data would show that anti-Gentilism among Zionist Jews far exceeds anti-Semitism among non-Jews, which is actually quite low compared to bias against other ethno-religious groups.

      • Keith
        Keith on May 4, 2019, 11:50 am

        JON66- “It’s easy for him to say. I wonder if his place of worship has a security guard and a concrete barrier around the nursery school?”

        Did you notice my comment above on 5/2/2019 @ 10:58 am concerning 103 US school shootings in 2018 resulting in 60 deaths? Or 14,623 total shooting deaths in 2018? I am concerned with the level of violence in our violent militarized society. Unlike you, I don’t focus exclusively on Jews. And my comment about police gunning down unarmed citizens is highly relevant. Are you aware and do you care that many Blacks get JUSTIFIABLY nervous when confronted by the police due to all of the police killing of unarmed Blacks who “looked suspicious?” Are Jews scared to death of the police? Why not, what with all of the anti-Semitism you claim to exist? Is it possible for you to see beyond yourself and your own kinship group? And if not, why not?

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 4, 2019, 9:38 pm

        Keith,
        If you want to look at numbers, in 2018 there were 50 million US school age children with 60 deaths. There were 5.7 million Jews with 10 deaths In Pittsburgh. School kids, 1 death per 833,000. Deaths from AS shooting in synagogue 1 death per 570,000. But I don’t think that’s relevant.

        26% of cancer deaths in the US were from lung cancer last year and only 7% from pancreatic. That doesn’t mean we should not work on pancreatic cancer.
        You want to make it an either/ or when it is really a yes/and. Of course it’s horrible that kids are shot in school or that African-Americans fear police, but that doesn’t mean that AS isn’t a significant problem to the Jewish community. You can be both concerned about bigotry towards your community AND be concerned about the welfare of others. Perhaps you should look at Heschel and the other Jews who have been both concerned about themselves, but also others.
        I have friends who donate significant amounts to animal welfare causes, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t think humans are in need as well. You continue to miss the point. If a Jewish person in America is being targeted because they are Jewish that’s wrong. And if an Asian American is being discriminated against , or any other group it’s wrong.

        As to Pine Bush, if it was school with African American kids and the other students were calling them the N word and leaving nooses, would you also dismiss that as only verbal abuse? Children should be safe at school.
        https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/nyregion/pine-bush-ny-schools-anti-semitism.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 4, 2019, 11:10 pm

        “Since my first response to you didn’t pass moderation, I will make a second attempt utilizing appropriately euphemistic language, ”

        I seem to have reached the limit of euphemistic language. About half my responses fail moderation these days, even if I repeating points that were published on MW a few years ago.

        I know that I am not allowed to draw reasonable conclusions from the comments of Zionists, but I find that nearly every comment that could be interpreted as even slightly critical of Jews gets banned.

        And I simply cannot see any reason at all in some cases.

      • Keith
        Keith on May 6, 2019, 12:13 am

        ROHA- “I know that I am not allowed to draw reasonable conclusions from the comments of Zionists, but I find that nearly every comment that could be interpreted as even slightly critical of Jews gets banned.”

        I hear you Bro’, but my lips are sealed, if you take my drift. “Uppity” Keith has fallen on hard times!

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 10, 2019, 1:41 am

        Keith, RoHa, FWIW, I’ll pop in as often as I can, for what must be said, doing what little I am able.

        Not that it’s enough, or that it’s fair that so much and so many are muzzled – though perhaps MW is not the worst of them, is it?. We live in the world we live in, so if a little compromise is called for, so be it..

        For myself, I never forget, not for a moment, that it is not me who suffers the worst of what happened and the still worse that will happen. My meager contributions, like yours, like most commenters’ here, are hardly a substitute for the voice of the long suffering and persecuted Palestinians, which has been rendered all but mute. Except through some posts on MW, which are seen and read by many whp’d otherwise never know the reality on the ground.. Yet, note how few Palestinians comment here, be they in Palestine or elsewhere. for reasons that are all too easy to guess.

        The murdered, tortured, imprisoned and oppressed Palestinians is what I see in the rear view mirror, even as I take on this or that jewish “something” to task. For now, while we are all powerless in the face of what dastardly plans unfold for Palestine (and for Iran, for Syria, for Venezuela, and who knows how many other places), we should still say what little we can. The time for truth, the whole truth, for the aportioning of blame, will arrive later. History will have a way of connecting many dots that are now neither visible, nor clear.

        In the end it’s all a morality tale, of that I’m certain. I even got the old testament as an exhibit.

      • Keith
        Keith on May 10, 2019, 2:47 pm

        DANAA- “Keith, RoHa, FWIW, I’ll pop in as often as I can, for what must be said, doing what little I am able.”

        I always look forward to your comments, however, I am relatively free to say what I want EXCEPT on a few topics, this obviously one of them. I have always stressed that when evaluating these Zionist tales of never-ending victimhood, that the safety and well-being of Jews must be evaluated RELATIVE to the safety and well-being of the surrounding Gentile community. On this thread I was trying to make the point that there seems to be an increase in mass shooting violence throughout the entire political economy, school shootings becoming distressingly routine. I supplied a few numbers involving 60 school shooting deaths in 2018 (same year as Pittsburgh shooting) along with 14, 263 total shooting deaths in 2018.

        Jon66 then took my numbers and did a quick analysis which showed that in 2018, the per capita shooting deaths of Jews in synagogues was greater than the per capita school shooting deaths. True enough, however, to leave it at that would be very misleading. The Pittsburgh death toll was MORE THAN DOUBLE the cumulative Jewish death toll up until that point. An anomaly. It seemed obvious to me that in all of the previous years the story would be different. When I attempted to point out that Jon66’s comment was misleading, that is when I had my moderation difficulties.

        Normally, I am not overly concerned when some of my comments don’t pass moderation because they violate some Jewish taboo. I am, however, more concerned when the moderators seem to be protecting misleading Zionist hasbara. A shared meme perhaps? In any event, I doubt that my comments make much of a difference anyway. Interestingly, even some of the Zionists are reaching conclusions similar to my own.

        “Mondoweiss is a good example of a Jewish identity based on anti-Israel activism.” (Nathan) https://mondoweiss.net/2019/04/supporting-liability-democrats/comment-page-1/#comment-948319

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 10, 2019, 5:23 pm

        Keith,
        By this relative safety are you saying that it’s OK to target and kill a few Jews simply out of anti-semitism as long as you keep it to only a few at a time? Do you feel the same about other targeted minorities? Needless to say I disagree with this approach.

        As to the year 2018, that was your choice not mine.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 10, 2019, 5:52 pm

        “Mondoweiss is a good example of a Jewish identity based on anti-Israel activism.”

        Well, since Zionism is the most consequential thing organised Judaism does, and the consequences aren’t good, I can’t think of a better use of a Jewish identity.
        Can you?

      • eljay
        eljay on May 10, 2019, 8:06 pm

        || Jon66: Keith,
        By this relative safety are you saying that it’s OK to target and kill a few Jews simply out of anti-semitism as long as you keep it to only a few at a time? Do you feel the same about other targeted minorities? … ||

        Jon66, are you saying it’s OK to have an oppressive, colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” as long as you keep it to only one at a time? Do you feel the same about all other supremacist states?

      • Keith
        Keith on May 10, 2019, 8:53 pm

        JON66- “By this relative safety are you saying that it’s OK to target and kill a few Jews simply out of anti-semitism as long as you keep it to only a few at a time?”

        Obviously not and your implication is incredibly dishonest. Why is that? What little empirical evidence which exists which casts light upon relative Jewish safety suggests that Jews, far from being relatively persecuted are, in fact, relatively safe. But since that contradicts your victimhood meme you feel obliged to imply that I think it is okay to kill small numbers of Jews. What disgraceful anti-Gentile bilge. Can you provide any quote of me ever saying or implying such a thing? Why do you refuse to acknowledge the empirical reality of relative Jewish safety? I agree with Norman Finkelstein that we should focus our attention on those who society has abandoned rather than the relatively privileged and safe. But apparently you could care less about any group other than Jews. Shame on you.

        JON66- “As to the year 2018, that was your choice not mine.”

        That was the year of the Pittsburgh shooting which provides the basis for comparisons with historical European anti-Semitism. Prior to 2018, so few Jews were killed that the numbers weren’t published. I was lucky to blunder upon that Haaretz article when I did. 2018 is also the last full year of school shooting data. Since Phil’s article talked about the Poway shooting on top of the Pittsburgh shooting, my choice of 2018 was logical. That your analysis concerned an anomalous year which was not representative of historical reality should have been obvious to you. So you put forth an analysis which you should have known misrepresented historical Jewish safety, but did so because it reinforced your meme of Jewish victimhood. Once again, shame on you.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on May 10, 2019, 9:42 pm

        Until Pittsburgh, US Jews were a safe group. Now, not so sure. And Keith is being obtuse and obnoxious. When he goes to a funeral of a smoker, he’d hand out antismoking brochures at the cemetery to the grieving family. But in this case he has a reason. He hates smokers.

        Because Jews don’t hang out in bars and get into knife fights or kill their wives then to even things out statistically it is good and righteous that they should die when going to pray in synagogue. That is the upshot.

        And that the anti Israel crowd includes so many cold hearted nonJews is a great credit to this comments section. Not afraid to show the ugly side of antiZionism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 11, 2019, 12:32 pm

        “Because Jews don’t hang out in bars and get into knife fights or kill their wives “

        And the difference is more than made up by Jewish people marrying non-Jews. Nobody needs to shoot us. (Well, except Cupid)

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 12, 2019, 2:47 am

        Reverend Friedman,

        “… Jews don’t hang out in bars and get into knife fights or kill their wives…”

        What an utterly racist statement. Shame on (even) you.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer on May 12, 2019, 10:16 am

        @ech

        Not only totally racist but a completely false claim. There are a number of dead wives out there that will be shocked to find they don’t count.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 12, 2019, 10:37 am

        Keith,
        We don’t have any measure of relative Jewish safety. In the US we don’t keep track of the religion of crime victims unless a hate crime is involved. Your data is merely a guess.

        I disagree with your false dichotomy. We do not have to choose between opposing AS and opposing other hatreds anymore than we need to choose between being against AIDS and being against pancreatic cancer. We can, and many of us do, oppose racism and AS. Why can’t you do the same? Any amount of AS, homophobia, racism etc is wrong and intolerable. You can support both the NAACP and the ADL.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 12, 2019, 10:39 am

        Eljay,
        Straw man. I disagree with your premise.
        “Do you still beat your wife?”

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 12, 2019, 12:23 pm

        Old Geezer,

        Somehow it’s one necessary chain of attitudes: if one’s a racist male you’ll not only count no one but your Master Group as human; you’ll also consider women to be lesser beings, just like the Zionists behave when they pull the curtains on their pinkwashed show-window. And, of course, if you’re racist you’ll become / remain Zionist.

      • Keith
        Keith on May 12, 2019, 1:11 pm

        JON66- “I disagree with your false dichotomy.”

        The false dichotomy is yours not mine. The Zionist false dichotomy of all non-Jews being lumped together as Gentiles and being considered as enemies of the Jews, anti-Semitism deemed irrational and eternal.

        And when I try to break through this false dichotomy to relate Pittsburgh and Poway to the larger social problem involving shootings in general and school shootings in particular, I am vilified by the bizarre notion that placing these events in the broader social context is tantamount to a lack of concern for Jewish safety or worse. And spare me the crocodile tears about all racism being unacceptable. Your focus is Judeocentric in the extreme, the well-being of non-Jews of little concern.

      • eljay
        eljay on May 12, 2019, 2:15 pm

        || Jon66: Keith,
        By this relative safety are you saying that it’s OK to target and kill a few Jews simply out of anti-semitism as long as you keep it to only a few at a time? Do you feel the same about other targeted minorities? … ||

        || eljay: Jon66, are you saying it’s OK to have an oppressive, colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” as long as you keep it to only one at a time? Do you feel the same about all other supremacist states? ||

        || Jon66: Eljay,
        Straw man. I disagree with your premise.
        “Do you still beat your wife?” ||

        Jon, you’re so brave when you ask questions but always so cowardly when it comes to answering them.

        Here’s how it’s done: Jon, I do not nor have I ever beaten or wished to beat my wife.

        Your turn: Are you saying it’s OK to have an oppressive, colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” as long as you keep it to only one at a time? Do you feel the same about all other supremacist states?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 12, 2019, 8:20 pm

        So, Johnny 66 again gives the game away. One wonders how he got an MD without enough sense to keep it hidden:

        “We can, and many of us do, oppose racism and AS”

        ” AS” stands for antisemitism. So it’s official from Jonny 66; “AS” is different from racism. As we keep repeating without ever getting an answer, the “Antisemitism” attacked by the Zionists and assimilated stone-age tribals is not something directed at the characteristics at birth of so-called Jews.

        Now let’s see why one isn’t supposed to oppose any group on the basis of anything acquired? That is not racism; any inquiry or opinion directed to acquired traits is fully legitimate.

        Zionists are declared enemies of free speech. In addition to being racists by definition.

        PS. MW censors have joined the declared enemies of free speech. Too cowardly to state it upfront, though.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 12, 2019, 10:45 pm

        Eljay,
        Israel is not supremacist yada yada…
        Is that answer helpful to you?

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 12, 2019, 10:53 pm

        Echi
        As I have said many times, Jews are not a race. Anti-semitism is not racism. Zionism is not racism.
        Hatred of Jews because they are Jews is AS. Hatred of Muslims is Islamophobia. Both of these and other hatreds such as misogyny are wrong.

        If I express hatred and bigotry of amputees, not a birth trait, is that OK as well?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 13, 2019, 1:39 am

        Johnny 66 shouldn’t pretend to be so ignorant.
        §
        “As I have said many times, Jews are not a race.”
        §
        1. Nobody said they are –apart from [nameless 1930es warmonger] and the Zionists! The latter claim a right to “return” (their own word) to the “land of their ancestors”. Because of an assumed transmission of Jewishness through the mother, official mythologic* definition. A mother is a parent, and ancestry / genetic transmission is the very essence of racial, period. Strange, ain’t it, that you supposedly hold an MD?
        §
        2. There is no need for a factual race for having racism. “Racism”, as used in the majority of any usage corpus of the civilized world (and even the US, look it up), means group discrimination based on accident of birth. Again: if it were hostility against the entire group of people born from nominally or historically Jewish ancestry, Antisemitism would have been racism.
        §
        “Anti-semitism is not racism”
        Well, well, that’s exactly the point. It’s not, in its various absurd definitions, directed against the whole group of people born with a nominally Jewish ancestry. If it were, it would be plain racism, no ridiculous special name needed. Do you hear cries of Antihibernianism, Antitalicism, Antisinism, Anthellenism… way to go to reach Absurd.
        §
        “Zionism is not racism”
        Yarright. And I always thought that it consisted in claiming a nation-state in the Middle East under the exclusive sovereignty of people mythically descended, at least matrilineally, from some tribes said to have lived thousands of years ago in a small portion of Palestine, according to your own mythology invaded and appropriated by horrible acts of genocide. The only justification invoked for the Zionist claim on Palestine (and the Apartheid policy) is racial descent over thousands of years.
        §
        “Hatred of Jews because they are Jews is AS”
        §
        Wrong. It would be common-or-garden racism if it targeted everyone with nominally Jewish ancestry, see above. It’s disappearing.
        §
        If, on the other hand, it was directed at the Jews, meaning people who follow/practice a certain religion, it would be directed at a deliberately acquired trait, open to discussion.
        §
        “Hatred of Muslims is Islamophobia”
        §
        Wrong again. It’s a trendy propaganda term trying to make palatable the official (and mainly Zionist-fostered) racist hysteria against people of Mid-Eastern origin, no matter if they are Muslim, Christian, Wiccan or atheists.
        §
        “If I express hatred and bigotry of amputees, not a birth trait, is that OK as well?”
        I wouldn’t know before I hear what exactly you got against them.
        §
        ————————————-
        * Meaning that’s what you guys pretend to believe while all known facts give it the lie

      • eljay
        eljay on May 13, 2019, 7:14 am

        || Jon66: Eljay,
        Israel is not supremacist yada yada…
        Is that answer helpful to you? ||

        Nope.

        It’s sad how you Zionists delude yourselves into believing that Israel isn’t…
        – colonialist, even as it continues to colonize territory outside of its / Partition borders;
        – (war) criminal, even as it continues with impunity to commit (war) crimes; and
        – religion-supremacist, even as it (and as Zionists like you) insist that it is not the Israeli state of and for all people living in and up to n-generations removed from its / Partition borders but, rather, a “Jewish State” primarily of and for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews.

      • eljay
        eljay on May 13, 2019, 8:28 am

        || Jon66: Echi
        As I have said many times, Jews are not a race. Anti-semitism is not racism. Zionism is not racism. … ||

        But Zionism is religion-based supremacism.

        || … Hatred of Jews because they are Jews is AS. Hatred of Muslims is Islamophobia. Both of these and other hatreds such as misogyny are wrong. … ||

        Supremacism – religion-based or otherwise – is also wrong. Zionism is as wrong as Islamism and White Supremacism.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 13, 2019, 8:25 pm

        Echi,
        No need for race to have racism?

        1Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior.https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/racism

        1.belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.https://www.dictionary.com/browse/racism

        1. social studies the belief that some races are better than others, or the unfair treatment of someone because of his or her racehttps://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/racism

        Racism, also called racialism, any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans may be divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races”; that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural and behavioral features; and that some races are innately superior to others. Since the late 20th century the notion of biological race has been recognized as a cultural invention, entirely without scientific basis.
        https://www.britannica.com/topic/racism

        Not a supposed race, then not racism.

        The same reason we have different names for different cancers, we have different names for different discriminations. The causes and responses often differ with each entity.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 14, 2019, 1:07 am

        “Echi, No need for race to have racism?”
        Very funny. If there is a need for race to have racism AND “Jews are not a race”, well, Messrs. Hitler and Rosenberg could not have been racists.

        Johnny 66 is being more and more ignorant, not to mention totally absurd: I specifically mentioned usage, and even suggested that he look it up in a representative corpus of civilized Western discourse; all he does is quote old platitudes from dictionaries. And even these old platitudes explicitly mention “OR the belief of … a different race”.

        “we have different names for different discriminations”
        Oh yeah, as I said… Anthispanism, Anthellenism, Antisinism, Antinegrism, Antabyssinianism, especially Antijuxtorientalism. We use these names all the time according to the discriminee’s precise parentage, sure!

        “The causes and responses often differ with each entity” Now you’re talking: We jail, draw and quarter the “Antisemite” while practicing Antigoyism, and our very raison d’être is militant Antipalestinism. Perhaps you’re right, after all: for racists like you Zionists, “causes and responses differ” because by definition you must favor yours and hate others.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 14, 2019, 1:23 am

        Now that we’ve disposed of the last deflection by Johnny 66, mw permitting, time to remind him that he still hasn’t answered the main point, which was entirely about biol. race, literally. Forgetful?

        So I’m repeating for his convenience:

        “Zionism is not racism”
        Yarright. And I always thought that it consisted inof claiming a nation-state in the Middle East under the exclusive sovereignty of people mythically descended, at least matrilineally, from some tribes said to have lived thousands of years ago in a small portion of Palestine, according to your own mythology invaded and appropriated by horrible acts of genocide. The only justification invoked for the Zionist claim on Palestine (and the Apartheid policy) is racial descent over thousands of years.

        So again, if “Jews are not a race”, what is left of your ludicrous fake justification for any territorial claims on Palestine?

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 14, 2019, 7:32 am

        “Nobody needs to shoot us. (Well, except Cupid)’

        Mooser, Cupid is an anti-Semite. He keeps picking on you.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 14, 2019, 2:36 pm

        Echi,
        Yes, the Nazis thought there was an Aryan race and a Jewish race. I disagree. I don’t think there is a Jewish race. I disagree with the Nazis and those of you who believe that Jews are a race. The Nazis were certainly racist, but they were also anti-Semitic. There are Jews of many races.

        In my experience the best way to find the common definition of a word is the dictionary.

      • eljay
        eljay on May 14, 2019, 3:27 pm

        || Jon66: … There are Jews of many races. … ||

        Well, sure: Jewish is a religion-based identity.

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 15, 2019, 12:54 am

        jon 66 Zionism is not racism

        But it is just that, no matter how many times you repeat that it isn’t. Turning away from the truth will not do when you show up in places where people believe in human rights, and that “all men/women are born equal”. Not in israel, they aren’t. And not in the Talmudic traditions of Judaism which did not recognize equality between either men and women or jews and gentiles. One was superior and one was inferior and those lines run straight through the talmud and all its interpretations.

        Which is exactly what the borrowed-from-Christianity concept of Tikkun Olam – and its kin – the Rule of Law – sought to redress.

        Unless I missed something and Palestinians are now considered citizens with equal rights who can participate in and benefit from israel’s Law of Return?

        short of that, sorry – ethnic cleansing and massacres of non-Jews which were part of the founding of israel (and are hardly the cause of much regret among most israelis, much less compensated for). The ongoing murderous policies of that country, their targeting of the occupied, subjugated population continue the tradition of the early jewish conquistadors, with the racist brutish nasty stuff that israel does every day. A lovely tradition indeed.

        Unfortunately the sheer evil that is the oppressive theocratic ethnocracy of israel reflects on perfectly fine jewish people in the US. Which is why so many of the younger generation have turned anti-zionist as the direct anti-racist antithesis.

        Of course, just because israel is a nasty little place is n reason to shoot anyone outside that country, but, as Keith keeps trying to explain to you, we have shootings every few weeks, and our “charming “, much disturbed American shooters, do seem to be, on the whole, equal opportunity in their targeting. So sometimes it’ll be children who are shot, sometimes muslim, sometimes jewish, sometimes Christians, sometimes Sikh, and sometimes random passer-bys. Could even happen to any of us should we chance by some extremely bad luck to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

  15. JWalters
    JWalters on April 30, 2019, 11:32 pm

    Some of Phil’s friends think they need to shred civilization in Palestine in case civilization gets shredded in America, and they need to flee from an uprising against Jewish Americans.

    But these recent attacks were by crazy people. I don’t believe the old pool of anti-Semitism merely went undercover. I believe it mostly went away, just as the prejudice against gays has more recently. So the remnants in both cases went undercover.

    So I’m wondering, what, if anything, might cause such an uprising, something that is actually on the horizon. Israel using America as dumb muscle to shred civilization in Palestine might bother some Americans, especially ones who take seriously the goal of equal justice for all. The cover-up of this shredding by a monopolized mainstream media might bother some. The near monopolization of politics through overwhelming financial advantage (and steering America into needless wars) might bother some.

    But I believe these monopolizations can be handled by legal means. Americans have broken up monopolies before. The designers of our political system did not expect a huge, concentrated wealth that could monopolize their system (although some worried about the possibility, especially in banking). They did prohibit titles of nobility as one protection from the threat of overwhelming wealth, in the world as they knew it. A world crowded with corporations was still off in the future. Clearly an adjustment is needed. I’d guess it wouldn’t need a Constitutional convention – an anti-monopoly bill or two might do. Perhaps even just enforcing anti-collusion laws that are already on the books.

    • Citizen
      Citizen on May 1, 2019, 10:20 am

      You are on the right track IMHO; anti-monopoly bills against big banks, big insurance, & corporate news media, along with revolution in campaign finance system would be very helpful.

    • Danaa
      Danaa on May 15, 2019, 5:24 pm

      I’ll add something to your argument – with which I largely agree.

      What’s interesting to me is that the way some jewish people in the US (not Phil, from what I can tell) react to a shooting or a hate action against some Jews react. Which is to take cover behind some pro-Israel-as-last-resort position. Which by necessity begets some affinity with the zionist position, no matter ehat evil that country does.

      For some reason I don’t see black people – who are subject to that much more racism and bigotry – take a pro-Liberia, or pro-Kenya or pro-some African country position, every time a hate crime comes to light. Same with Hispanics and Asians. These ethnic groups fight hate crimes AS AMERICANS. Their first thought is not – how do we cut tail and run.

      It disturbs me that too many Jewish Americans (and Jewish French, etc.) have this view that if “worse comes to worst we can just abscond to lil’ ol’ Israel”. It disturbs me because of what that implies about the depth of their commitment to America (or to France, or to Sweden, etc. etc) as the country they want to improve and protect, and whose warts they want to fix. It disturbs me also, because for such American jews,, israel takes up way more oxygen than it should.

  16. Mooser
    Mooser on May 1, 2019, 1:48 am

    I’m sure almost all anti-Semitism in America can be ameliorated by educating the non-Jewish public. People have a wrong impression of Jewish Americans. I’m sure when Americans learn that we are just as devoted to white nationalism, ethnic purity and border control as they are, anti-Semitism will lessen considerably. People will learn to stop associating Jews with socialism , race-mixing, and the plot to destroy the white race.

    • Citizen
      Citizen on May 1, 2019, 10:22 am

      Exactly, that’s why Spencer and Duke, for example, praise Israel as a model state.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 1, 2019, 12:52 pm

        You know it, “Citizen”. Why couldn’t somebody explain to guys like the synagogue shooters that really, Jews are just like them?

  17. jon s
    jon s on May 1, 2019, 5:06 am

    First of all, compliments to Phil for admitting having been wrong. Not easy to do, especially in public and even more so before an unforgiving public like much of the MW readership.

    Some comments:
    1.Phil states that revising his understanding of Anti-Semitism has not made him a Zionist. Fair enough, but what ARE the lessons or conclusions? Any thoughts on how to counter Anti-Semitism ? How should the community react?
    2. The attacks in Pittsburgh and in Poway came from the extreme right. but as Wondering Jew pointed out correctly there could also be attacks from Islamic terrorists motivated by Anti-Semitism combined with Anti-Zionism as in Europe and elsewhere. What are Phil’s views on the convergence of Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism which has claimed so many innocent lives?
    3. We “are not safe” in Israel/Palestine. Really? Phil has visited several times, and should know that Israel is a relatively safe country. You have a way higher chance of being the victim of violent crime or even being murdered in the USA than in Israel. Could there be, God forbid, an apocalyptic bloodbath in the future? Could be, who knows? And the US could be nuked by Kim Jong Boom, who knows.
    4. Zionism needs to be “taken apart”? Brick by brick? What does that really mean? Jews may still need a safe haven but the Jewish homeland should not exist? Is that the answer to murderous Anti-Semitism?

    • eljay
      eljay on May 1, 2019, 8:12 am

      || jon s: First of all, compliments to Phil for admitting having been wrong. Not easy to do … ||

      True. It’s a shame so few Zionists find the courage to admit the error of their hateful and immoral ways. I suppose the magnitude of their (deliberately-committed) mistakes makes it much harder to come to terms with just how wrong-headed they are.

    • G. Seauton
      G. Seauton on May 2, 2019, 3:49 am

      There’s always the Jewish Autonomous Oblast, with its lovely capital, Birobidzhan. And they claim there’s only one Jewish state!

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 4, 2019, 12:20 pm

        Ah, carry me back to old Birobidzhan!

    • Danaa
      Danaa on May 15, 2019, 5:37 pm

      jon S Jews may still need a safe haven

      What about Black Americans – do they need a safe haven too? should they be advocating/defending the policies and actions of Liberia? or Congo? or kenya?

      What about American Hispanics? should they be taking a pro-mexico position every time someone says something derogatory about them? don’t they need a safe haven so much more than American jews who occupy by and large the middle class and upper middle class positions in the country and are therefore so much safer than some McDonald busboy?

      What about Chinese Americans? should they too be considering China as a safe haven, even though they are 4th or 5th generation Americans?

      Or, may be you think the jews are somehow “special” because of past persecution? ask the Chinese how much past persecution THEY suffered. Or the African-American check-out lady at your local supermarket. I bet she could tell you a thing or two about “Persecution”. Then ask her whether she views some African country or another as a “safe haven” that she can abscond to, should things “get bad”.

      I submit to you that your words betray your true commitments. How hard are you working to improve America’s warts? Phil works hard, as do many like him. I didn’t see any evidence that he is packing his bags since there was a shooting some place where jewish people in a synagogue were targeted by one of our specially dysfunctional brand Americans who was looking for a convenient target for his (it’s always a ‘he’, isn’t it?) gun practice. But you I don’t know – there’s probably always a bag at the ready – there by the door waiting in case you need a “fast exit” because “anti-semitism”….

      • jon s
        jon s on May 16, 2019, 4:02 am

        Danaa
        First of all, I live in Israel, so much of your comment is irrelevant.
        Secondly, I have no problem with Mexican-Americans maintaining special ties with Mexico. And so, too for Chinese-Americans and China, and so forth.
        In the States we had a good friend who was of Swedish origin, born and grew up and lived in the USA. Yet he followed Swedish politics, supported Sweden in the World Cup, and visited there several times. Quite natural, just like the connection Jewish Americans feel with Israel (and Palestinian – Americans with Palestine).

      • eljay
        eljay on May 16, 2019, 7:14 am

        || jon s: … I have no problem with Mexican-Americans maintaining special ties with Mexico. And so, too for Chinese-Americans and China, and so forth. … Quite natural, just like the connection Jewish Americans feel with Israel … ||

        “Quite natural” would be the connection non-Jewish and Jewish Israeli-Americans feel with Israel. You Zionists simply can’t help flaunting your supremacism.

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 16, 2019, 1:52 pm

        I think you missed the gist of my comment. The point was (assuming you did not miss it deliberately) that mexican Americans are not standing there ready to pack their bags everytime a crime or hate speech is directed at Hispanics. They take on the situation as Americans who want to make America a better place to live in.

        That’s the commitment I am talking about.

        In your case, since you live in Israel, obviously you made your choice and it is that place that has your loyalty. Which is fine. But then criticisms of Americans – of any and all backgrounds – should be viewed in that context.

        Which is an uber white-nationalist/zionist one.

        Because in my book Israel = white supremacy state. So no wonder it falls on the extreme right, complete with the usual supremacist stuff. just like apartheid South Africa used to be, except worse, because it’s got that “little” religious zealotry/cult mentality embedded.

  18. Jackdaw
    Jackdaw on May 1, 2019, 7:40 am

    Phil wasn’t wrong about anti-Semitism having one away. He was just caught up in the anti-Zionist echo chamber that he helped create.

    • Donald
      Donald on May 1, 2019, 10:10 am

      “Phil wasn’t wrong about anti-Semitism having one away. He was just caught up in the anti-Zionist echo chamber that he helped create.

      Typos aside, of course Phil was wrong. You are stumbling over your words in the effort to snark.

      Anyway, the problem is that people in politics typically have trouble holding more than one thought in their head at the same time. I’m being mean to Phil here, but there was never any good reason to deny the continuing existence of violent anti-semites. Some people can make racist justifications for stealing Palestinian land and committing atrocities against them, while others can be vicious antisemites. It’s a big world and unfortunately there’s room for moral cretinism of many different types.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 1, 2019, 1:00 pm

        “any good reason to deny the continuing existence of violent anti-semites.”

        Yes, there is, for a person who is looking for allies among the “conservatives” and the right wing, and maybe even thought “conservative” American nationalism and patriotism could be an partner in controlling Israel.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 4, 2019, 12:23 pm

        “any good reason to deny the continuing existence of violent anti-semites.”

        Well, not Phil, but it is possible some people think there is an intrinsic difference between Jews and, well, other minorities which will preserve us from the oppression handed out to them.

  19. Misterioso
    Misterioso on May 1, 2019, 10:53 am

    Breaking news:

    https://org.salsalabs.com/o/641/t/0/blastContent.jsp?email_blast_KEY=1393106

    U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights.

    Dear Friend,

    “Rep. Betty McCollum of Minnesota just reintroduced her legislation in Congress that would prohibit our tax dollars from funding the Israeli military detention of Palestinian children—and this time, it’s an even stronger challenge to occupation and apartheid! The ground breaking bill is the follow up to H.R. 4391 in the last Congress, which boasted 31 cosponsors.

    “This bill exists because every year, Israel detains and prosecutes between 500 and 700 Palestinian children in military courts that have a conviction rate of 99.74%. Instead of living free and safe childhoods, Palestinian children fear Israeli soldiers pulling them from their beds in the middle of the night to face torture and ill-treatment.

    “H.R. 2407, the Promoting Human Rights for Palestinian Children Living Under Israeli Military Occupation Act, amends an existing human rights law known as the ‘Leahy Law’ to specifically prohibit US funds from being used for the ‘military detention, interrogation, abuse, or ill-treatment’ of children.

    “The bill aims to end US funding for Israeli human rights abuses and lay the groundwork for achieving justice. H.R. 2407 authorizes the appropriation of funds to monitor human rights abuses and to provide physical, psychological, and emotional rehabilitation to Palestinian children who have been victims of Israel’s military detention system.

    “Friend, I know you share my belief in equality, freedom, and justice for all people and across all issues. Those values mean we support dismantling structural injustices and inequalities, and protecting all children from harm—especially the brown and Black children, from the US to Palestine, that are the most vulnerable to structural violence.

    “Tell your member of Congress that US tax dollars should not be used to fund the abuse of Palestinian children.

    “This year, we have an even greater opportunity to move US policy from complicity to justice. Bold new progressive leaders in Congress are taking on issues like militarism, incarceration, and racism. They share our progressive vision of justice for all and a future where all children live safe and free.

    “Challenge your member of Congress to uphold justice today. Take two minutes to send an email asking them to cosponsor Rep. McCollum’s legislation and hold Israel accountable for the ongoing abuse of Palestinian children!”

    Thank you for building towards justice with us,
    LEAH MUSKIN-PIERRET
    Manager of Congressional & Grassroots Advocacy

    • Jackdaw
      Jackdaw on May 2, 2019, 1:51 pm

      “Instead of living free and safe childhoods, Palestinian children fear Israeli soldiers pulling them from their beds in the middle of the night to face torture and ill-treatment. ”

      Maybe if the Tanzim leadership didn’t use Palestinian boy-soldiers in their armed struggle against Israel, these children, always teenaged boys, would have free and safe childhoods.

      • oldgeezer
        oldgeezer on May 2, 2019, 5:34 pm

        Not as long as there are zionists like you waiting to steal their homes and land. teargas their schools. And a long list of horrors.

        Israelis the only country in the world with no agency. The country that must blame it’s victims so it can pretend to itself, and it only works on themselves, to be a beacon to all nations.

        Aryan nation sure wants to emulate you.

  20. brent
    brent on May 1, 2019, 11:59 am

    In my wondering life, I’m not hearing anti-semitism being expressed or implied. I encounter opinions on Israel.

    It seems to me violence against individuals because they are members of a group impacts the mentality of the whole group to one extent or another. This is why I think acts of violence against groups usually has the exact opposite effect than the one sought. In the case of “resistance” against Israeli colonialism, violence has had the effect of silencing humanists and empowering the self-righteous, the oppressors.

    • Mooser
      Mooser on May 1, 2019, 1:14 pm

      “In the case of “resistance” against Israeli colonialism, violence has had the effect of silencing humanists and empowering the self-righteous, the oppressors.”

      Yes, “brent” we get it. Any “resistance” by the Palestinians gives the Israelis the right, nay, the obligation to wipe them out.

  21. Vera Gottlieb
    Vera Gottlieb on May 1, 2019, 12:22 pm

    And for as long as israel keeps up the shameful mistreatment of Palestinians…adding fuel to this fire.

  22. Lewis Elbinger
    Lewis Elbinger on May 1, 2019, 12:55 pm

    Philip Weiss, you are mensch. This article is precisely why I subscribe to and support Mondoweiss. It is honest, fearless and authentic. For me, it expresses the highest, most important and most sacred Jewish values.

    There is no self-hatred here, none whatsoever. There is honesty, humility, and clear sighted insight. This is the kiddishkeit (Judaism) I inherited from my ancestors and the kiddishkeit I embrace. I can say with Albert Einstein:
    “The pursuit of knowledge for its own sake, an almost fanatical love of justice, and the desire for personal independence, these are the features of the Jewish tradition which make me thank my lucky stars I belong to it.”

    • jon s
      jon s on May 1, 2019, 3:45 pm

      Lewis Elbinger
      I think you mean “yiddishkeit”.

    • Citizen
      Citizen on May 10, 2019, 9:46 pm

      I, as a goy, found the pursuit of knowledge & justice the best thing about Jewish culture; I have been heavily disappointed by the Jewish state & those who support it.

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 10, 2019, 11:34 pm

        Citizen,
        What the heck is “Jewish culture” supposed to mean? Even the strictly religious teachings and ritual aren’t similar from one population to the other, let alone the total absence of cultural connections among the different flavors. Except for Zionism, among those who follow the religion of Zionism.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 12, 2019, 1:16 pm

        “What the heck is “Jewish culture” supposed to mean?”

        That, I can tell you in one word: TRADITION!

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 12, 2019, 7:44 pm

        Mooser,

        No need for screaming capitals –My ears are working just fine. Just tell me, the tradition of which of the many different strands, which were totally unconnected to any of the others until yesterday –and now only all have in common Zionist fake-“nationhood”?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 13, 2019, 2:40 pm

        “No need for screaming capitals –My ears are working just fine.”

        Sorry. I usually read Mondo with the sound muted, didn’t realize.

  23. MHughes976
    MHughes976 on May 1, 2019, 1:18 pm

    I still don’t think that anti-S in North America or Western Europe is a serious political force in the sense that a party that called for reduction of Jewish influence would get the votes of more than a few cranks or that discrimination against Jews in work or housing is to be expected. Some may say, as I think Phil himself says, that power and influence exercised by people who are Jewish and who believe that they are promoting Jewish rights are in fact being misused for the oppression of Palestinians – but the people who say that, being moved as they are by a concern for human rights, are not going to attack the human or civil rights of Jews, Jews being human beings and citizens in good standing of many countries. There’s no new Oswald Mosley round any near corner.
    I admit that you don’t need a Mosley or a fascist party to destabilise things by creating violent incidents, particularly when gun culture so easily turns cranks complaining over a pint of beer into political agents grabbing the attention of the world. But even now it is important not to let these two things, individual rage and a movement of hostility among the people which threatens the basis of the social contract, be confused with each other.

  24. Danaa
    Danaa on May 2, 2019, 2:52 am

    Unlike Phil, I still think there is no such thing as “anti-semitism”, though there is such a thing as anti-Jewish antipathy. Much as there may be anti-muslim antipathy and anti-Christian antipathy, and anti-Asian antipathy and the usual anti-Black and/or anti-migrant antipathy. There is absolutely not a shred of difference between these antipathies as concepts, and the very need to elevate Jews to a special status by inventing a special class of bigotry aimed just at them, is what partly propels the antipathy of which I will now speak.

    I know there is hostility towards Jewish people running underground in many parts of the country. It is however, not exclusive and not unique. For example, Jewish people may be deeply resented in many quarters because they are perceived to have imposed this “anti-semitic” smear on anyone who criticizes anything that some Jewish people do somewhere. Criticize israel? anti-semitic. Make fun of Madoff? anti-semitic. A silly (but truthful) cartoon in the NYT? anti-semtic. Take pot shots at Schumer for being a wheeler-dealer for the oligarchy? clearly anti-semitic. Have a couple of unhinged shooters finding a convenient target in a synagog? anti-semitic. Rail against the Oligarchy (when so many of the Fortune 500 oligarchs have jewish connections)? anti-semitic. have left leaning convictions or identify with workers’ rights (say in the UK)? anti-semitic Corbyn. Be against the colonialist-settler apartheid evil state that is called Israel? totally anti-semitic (just ask netanyahoo, or Schumer or Wasserman-Schultz, those most corrupt of politicians).

    See where I am going with this? while one shooter hit a synagog in Poway and last year (was it last year or two years ago?) another shooter hit a synagog (was it in Pitsburgh? can’t keep my shooting targets straight), there were several mass shootings in schools, in hospitals, in working places, several in churches, a huge hit on a mosque (New Zealand) and any number of shootings every which way in this country that make absolutely no sense. Some killings seemingly random, some seem targeted at this or that group by people who were clearly mentally unhinged, some due to weird ideologies (right, left, whatever) and some lashing out at a symbol of power, be it a boss, a pastor, a rabbi, a priest or a doctor. Yet, it is only in the relatively rare case that some jewish gathering is the target that we hear this oh, so special “antisemitism” charge. As if those “anti-White” or “anti-black” or “anti-Christian” or “anti-muslim” sentiments could not even start to compete with this “anti-semitism” special sauce.

    The huge number of cases where people – many well-meaning ones – have been accused of “harboring anti-semitic feelings”, sometimes leading to serious deprivations – be it in reputation or profession – is exactly the fuel that makes helps the antiJewish antipathy grow. The more it had to go underground, the more we can’t justifiably criticize those who obviously abuse their power, or flaunt their richess, or go on and on implying some secret jewish “superiority” (David Brooks and Paul Krugman – I am looking at you!), the more it grows in the dark into something far worse than what you see above ground. With the potential to burst into the open should some unforseen calamity befall the nation.

    By denying people the right to air their grievances, for these to be taken on and debated (much as racism or Homophobia are nowadays), those grievances not only don’t disappear, but they sprout deeper roots, andmake cross connections that are not healthy for society.

    Am I saying Jewish people bring this antipathy upon themselves by silencing criticisms of eg., support for a nasty little apartheid fascist theocracy in the Middle east, of hubris, of over-reach or malfeasance by individuals? to some extent, yes. Are all jews guilty of misbehavior or poor behavior by some? of course not. But when even the best of Jews jump to conclusions about a mythical “anti-semitism”, implying something more irrational and more archetypal than any other kind of bigotry/envy/antipathy/racism of which humans are known for,, then yes, they are guilty of pouring fuel on resentment flames that were quite manageable to start with.

    For the longest time I have been warning people of those resentments that are percolating underneath the polite veneers of political correct speech. The antipathies of which I speak are there beneath the nice Christian fundies who are, oh so supportive of li’l ol’ Israel. They are among the oppressed working class, they are all around rural America, even as they profess admiration for “plucky” little israel; and they are found in among the grunts of the American military in which hardly any jewish people serve (and not just among grunts either).

    There is considerable resentment of too many Jews in the film industry, too many on Wall street, too many getting into Harvard as legacy entries, too many columnists and writers who got their books talked about when they were not exactly exceptional (no, I won’t provide examples. What am I? crazy? I want my book published too…). And also too many Holocaust themed programs and movies, which is resented by many more than people realize.

    I just read about an absolutely predatory collection trick that found a legal loophole in New York state (the confession note) and led to untold number of small business bankruptcies. Yes, the names of the perpetrators who grew rich on the backs of small business owners across the country using a truly rapacious (but clever!) loan sharking trick, were very Jewish sounding. People take note of that, even if no one is allowed to point that out. And yes, they notice the “clever” part. Not good. Not good at all.

    So Phil is right about sensing athat flame burning underneath. His forebodings may be right too, as I share them. But, aside from the one or two or three crazed gunmen, of which this country unfortunately knows way too many, flinging that tired “anti-semitism” accusation about when in truth, those shootings are part of a larger disturbing symptom of a declining social fabric in the country, will achieve the exact opposite of what they want. IT will feed rather than squash those flames, because jewish people will demand – again – special treatment (like a lion share of homeland security funds going to protect synagogs?).

    I would exercise a certain caution when dealing with either the Poway case or any other. I would emphasize the commonality and the ubiquitousness of victims across America. I would make Jewish people no more and no less than any other victims who suffered through a shooting crime perpetrated by an unhinged individual.

    I would also remind people that we are going through a decline phase as an Empire. That we are all deprived domestically (say of universal healthcare?) in order to maintain a military over-reach. When Empires decline, people become despondent without knowing why. A subset of those who are especially vulnerable will go unstable. They will find targets. Most of which will be public places where people congregate. Jewish people in the US have and will likely suffer from these eruptions as much as other groups. They should seek solace in the company of others, like themselves, who are also targeted. Not ask for special dispensation and attention due to some irrational clause that’s not extended to any other group.

    There, i said it all. Sorry for the length. But heck, length of verbiage is my protection too. Who could read it all anyways?

    • Jon66
      Jon66 on May 2, 2019, 8:37 am

      Anti – immigrant = xenophobia
      Anti-gay = homophobia
      Anti-Muslim= islamophobia
      Anti-women= misogyny
      Anti-Jewish = anti-semitism

      Are you opposed to only anti-semitism as a term or do you oppose specifying other distinct bigotries?

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 2, 2019, 4:05 pm

        I am opposed to enshrining “anti-semitism” as some sacred form of phobia that is more irrational than any other phobia.

        I have absolutely nothing against a term like “Judeophobia” making it similar conceptually to Islamophobia. Indeed, that’s a term I have used myself, and I recognize that for many people there is indeed a phobia involved in the antipathy – and sometimes even hostility – against people recognized as “Jewish”. Sometimes the phobia is directed against people deemed as overly powerful, and sometimes against the faith itself, which at least in the orthodox version is regarded as retrograde, much as Islam is (I don’t mean the American form of Orthodox Judaism which is very distinct from e.g., nationalist orthodoxy in Israel and certainly ultra-orthodoxy, where the religion of Judaism as practiced is, in fact, coercive).

        A Phobia implies “fear,” and that is in fact part of the hostility and in many ways describes the reaction better, on a psychological level, where it is used to to denote feelings of “being threatened”. It is the latter which may be involved in when certain unbalanced individuals erupt in violent action.

        They say that an entire word can sometimes be encapsulated in a word. Since the word “anti-semitism” has been weaponized to persecute those who oppose the evils done in the name of israel, I consider it a loaded word. That’s been used willy-nilly to justify any and all suppression of much free thought.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 2, 2019, 8:33 pm

        Danaa,
        “They say that an entire word can sometimes be encapsulated in a word. ”
        I have no idea what that means. Like ‘bike’ for ‘bicycle’?

        All of those words describing hatred have layered meanings. Certainly a word like ‘racist’ has been overused at times to shut down debate or put an opponent on the defensive. But that doesn’t mean that ‘racist’ isn’t a reasonable word in the right circumstances. If you want to start using new words it’s likely that no one will understand what you are talking about and secondly, the new word will develop its own layered meanings.

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 3, 2019, 1:11 am

        The world that’s contained in a word – a hyphenated word in this case – namely the over-used and abused nomer “anti-semitism” has been weaponized to shut down dissent, to censor, to destroy lives and yes, even to kill (example: “heck with all those disgusting Arabs in Gaza, with all their hamas-hamas – they are just a bunch of anti-semites, so who cares if they all die tomorrow? actually, the sooner the better” – and this is a quote from an israeli social media site, which is reflective of the way many Israelis talk).

        So I argue also that this “Anti-semitic” is a very poor expression, ever since its invention sometime in the 19th century. Among others it’s rather over-inclusive, as most Arabs are semites too, and a majority of Jewish people living in the world today are not. Still if they want to think of themselves as descendants of something semitic, they can do that, but they can’t lump everyone else into that circle.

        And while on linguistics still, lately I have been using anti-semite to describe also the Arab haters – both in Israel and the US. Actually I am thinking of making up yet another new expression which is “semitic anti-semite” – which could be a synonym to self-hating Arab or self-hating jew or whatever other ghoulash one may want to cook up. If some could invent the “anti-semite” thingy I can invent my own variations on a theme, right?

        Actually the Poway shooter perhaps can be called Judeo/Islamophobic since he apparently disliked equally both types of religious worship (I assume Chabad is a Jewish sect, right?). That based on his barely coherent babblings.

        In any case, I made my case and will continue to refuse to endow some crazed shooter somewhere with anything other than a “hater” with a phobia directed against this or that group.

        Names aside, my main point in the above missive was that the word “anti-semitism” has long ago become a loaded gun, aiming at benefiting one group of people, and singling them out for special treatment as the world’s most “unique” victims”. That’s just tiresome and ends up depriving the actual victims of more sympathy than it garners. At least that’s the case I was making, with which you are not obliged to agree.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 3, 2019, 2:38 am

        I think Danaa lost a letter, and meant “an entire world”.

      • Jon66
        Jon66 on May 3, 2019, 10:28 am

        “I think Danaa lost a letter, and meant “an entire world”.
        That makes more sense

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 3, 2019, 3:32 pm

        yes, I did, in the original. It’s my favorite expression and I garbled it. Tx RoHa.

    • wondering jew
      wondering jew on May 15, 2019, 10:29 pm

      Danaa- I hope you don’t mind my being straightforward. You are a former Jew. (Israel washed away the jew and replaced it with a New Hebrew.) You have disowned your New hebrew identity. Thus you are a former Jew. When you see Shoah photos, how do you react? When you heard news of Pittsburgh, how did you react?

      We can parse your complaints against the Jews sentence by sentence to see which of your claims are reasonable and which are just plain apathetic to real human feelings that you are exempted from because they washed the Jew out of you. But the bottom line is that you are filled with animus towards the Jews and your animus is quite apparent.

      I think it is difficult to reject all forms of Jewish continuity and still have some human feelings towards the Jews. I think this difficulty is apparent. I think you show zero human feelings towards the Jews.

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 16, 2019, 12:07 am

        When you see Shoah photos, how do you react? When you heard news of Pittsburgh, how did you react?

        This is easy to answer – I react as I do to all human calamities. With great sadness over man’s inhumanity to man (insert woman too, if must). I just don’t privilege one type of victims over another.

        What happened to rwandans and what happened to Cambodians are just as tragic as what happened to Jews during WWII. Furthermore, there were also millions of non-Jews who perished just as senselessly as Jews did under the Nazis, be it in concentration camps or on shooting ranges. There were, as you know, several millions of non-Jews who died in the camps (exact numbers not available but it’s on the same order as Jews). I see no reason to mourn them less.

        Your very question implies privilege. Jews remain privileged when they die because they are not just any victims. They are “Jewish victims”. Well, I don’t subscribe to that view. Which is the essence of being an advocate for HUMAN rights. All humans. Jews included but not singled out for special status as victims.

        By the same token, I don’t single Jewish people out for special status as perpetrators either. Even Israelis, who, as you say, are “former Jews” now become “Hebrews”. When Israelis do horrible things – which they do, as you well know, they are to be excoriated and condemned much as any other group of people who do horrible things. Americans included. I give israelis no medals for being “a little bit more humane when practicing the “art” of killing”. But I would condemn them to no more of a punishment than I would Americans who perpetrated similar a level of atrocities.

        The answer to your question is therefore simple: jews are human and are just like everyone else, for better or for worse. That they have apparently learnt nothing from the trials that have befallen on them during nazi rule is unfortunate, even tragic, but hardly surprising. Like many other humans, the abused often lives to become an abuser, as sentiments of revenge lie deep in the souls of many. Perhaps there are some who thought the jews would be somehow special. That they would behave better once they got the power. So they are surprised and disappointed. I don’t share the surprise, only the disappointment that even with their supposedly illustrious tradition, the Jews could not rise above the basest human instincts, any more than anyone else ever did. IOW, culture, education and values are no protection against meaness of spirit in and of their own. Only character is. And the Hebrews of israel showed they have little of latter 9collectively speaking. Individuals exempted of course. Like everywhere else).

        But the bottom line is that you are filled with animus towards the Jews and your animus is quite apparent.

        I think it is difficult to reject all forms of Jewish continuity and still have some human feelings towards the Jews. I think this difficulty is apparent. I think you show zero human feelings towards the Jews.

        This entire word salad about “animus towards Jews” etc. reminds me of the joke about the man coming home and reporting about an accident he saw with fatalities. His wife’s first question “were any of them Jewish?”. This of course is no joking matter as it implies apathy towards non-jewish life. Which is a bit “anti-semitic’ perhaps?

        So, are you urging me to be the kind of person who gives fodder to anti-semites of all kinds (whatever/whoever they are)? to confirm the stereotypes?

        What would you urge upon me next? privilege the jews in financial dealings may be?

        I don’t expect you to see the error of your ways, of course. Suffice it to say that you just gave all kind of justifications for Keith’s take on the Jewish core animosity towards gentiles (again I don’t think he means everyone).

        Far from showing “zero human feelings towards the Jews.”, to use your words, I happen to show human feelings towards my fellow humans, Jews included, but not singled out. Do you?

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 16, 2019, 1:10 am

        “I think it is difficult to reject all forms of Jewish continuity and still have some human feelings towards the Jews. ”

        Your ideas get weirder and weirder. Could you please explain why one needs to accept Jewish continuity in order to have human feelings towards Jews?

      • echinococcus
        echinococcus on May 16, 2019, 5:37 am

        As I was already saying, Zionists may excel in some difficult things (we better not name them) but they sure are unable to do what comes most spontaneous to any otherwise human being:

        For example, thus spake the resident almost-khakham:
        “… it is difficult to reject all forms of Jewish continuity and still have some human feelings towards the Jews”

        Wow. Our fellow non-Zio humans so far believed that they have human feeling (hereinafter HF) towards all human beings, which includes those humans who style themselves Jews, giving, as a result, exactly as much HF to Jews as any other humans.

        Wrong! The new khakham in town lets us know that such feelings expressed by humans for humans are not HF. They are “zero” –not even treif, as feelings go. Only Zionists have HF. Pay attention, folks, a feelings inspector will soon show up at your shop, as it did at Danaa”s.

      • eljay
        eljay on May 16, 2019, 7:23 am

        || wondering jew: Danaa- I hope you don’t mind my being straightforward. You are a former Jew. (Israel washed away the jew and replaced it with a New Hebrew.) You have disowned your New hebrew identity. Thus you are a former Jew. When you see Shoah photos, how do you react? When you heard news of Pittsburgh, how did you react? … ||

        y.f., I hope you don’t mind my being straightforward. You are a breathtakingly arrogant jerk. I don’t expect you to comprehend this but while Danaa may be insufficiently Jewish for your liking she is considerably more human than you are.

      • Keith
        Keith on May 16, 2019, 10:15 am

        DANAA- “Suffice it to say that you just gave all kind of justifications for Keith’s take on the Jewish core animosity towards gentiles (again I don’t think he means everyone).”

        My reference was primarily to Jewish Zionists and Jewish neo-Zionists. I think that when a relatively safe and privileged group continues to complain about their “victimhood,” they are de facto implying that non-Jews are their victimizers and the “enemy” of the Jews. This is a form of sectarianism, the very antithesis of multiculturalism.

        On a related and relevant topic, I link to a Chris Hedges interview with Matt Taibbi on his new book “Hate, Inc,” about how the cable news media has discovered the profitability of promoting hate. I highly recommend this 28 minute video.

        Link to Chris Hedges/Matt Taibbi- https://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2019/05/11/chris-hedges-and-matt-taibbi-the-deep-rot-that-infects-american-journalism-part-2/#more-206018

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on May 16, 2019, 11:23 am

        Danaa- Let me pick a date in the past: October 27, 1945. I would have picked May 10, 1945, right after VE day, but I want a date after VJ day, and might as well pick a day precisely 73 years before the Pittsburgh killings.

        Let me pick two individuals living in america: One modeled on Pete Hamill’s father depicted in his memoir “the Drinking Life”, in the aftermath of VJ day he celebrated, but by this time he realizes that the plush times of full employment will be coming to an end soon and that his ability to support his family will soon come to an end. His primary reaction to the end of World War II is fear of money troubles.

        Individual two, is an immigrant Jew (immigrated in the 20’s) who is now nearing 40. She has not heard from her mother in Rovno, Ukraine since 1941. Her primary concern is that her mother is probably dead.

        These are two human beings with entirely different life experiences and entirely different reactions to the end of World War II.

        Who do I identify with? Certainly the Jewish immigrant. But maybe I am being special. Maybe I should be a human being and not a Jew. Maybe I should identify with Pete Hamill’s father, whose primary concern is unemployment. Maybe I am wrong to identify with the Jewish immigrant.

        To focus on the Jewish millions murdered in WWII rather than the nonJewish millions murdered in WWII, is to you somehow wrong and special. I consider it natural and human.

        If I had to pick a role model for Jewish antiZionist reactions to WWII I would pick Isaac Deutscher. His identification with the murdered Jewish masses was rather complete. He certainly would not have cited the murdered others as an excuse for turning a personal experience into an impersonal experience.

        Deutscher died in 67 and the events that I am focusing on ended 74 years ago so there is a separate question of timing and how appropriate it is to focus on “long ago” events. But leaving that element behind it seems obvious to me that universalizing the trauma of the war, so that it is merely a question of man’s inhumanity towards man is admirable in the abstract, but inhuman in the reality. A Jew in 45, who was conscious historically would be closer to the Jewish immigrant that I specified than to Pete Hamill’s father. of the 3 billion or so that were alive in october 1945, most of them looked towards the future. of the 12 million jews alive in october of 1945, those who were not oblivious would instead look towards the recent past and not in the abstract; man’s inhumanity towards man, but the very real, severe damage suffered by the body of the Jewish people.

        maybe in 2019, particularly given the damage that Jewish nationalism has enacted upon the Palestinians and the dangers that Jewish nationalism poses towards global stability, it is preferable to have tossed aside the Jewish consciousness and flushed it down the toilet. But in 1945 that was not true. And to excuse your flushing it down the toilet, based upon the death toll of nonJews is just horse manure.

      • Danaa
        Danaa on May 16, 2019, 1:59 pm

        Keith – I highly recommend this 28 minute video.

        Yes, it’s a good one. I actually watched that not long ago. And thanks for the recommendation.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 16, 2019, 5:24 pm

        ” You are a former Jew.” “wondering jew”

        “Yonah, you know that “Hophmi” is the Lord High Excommunicator , not you. You do not have an Excommunicator’s license

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 16, 2019, 6:00 pm

        “I think it is difficult to reject all forms of Jewish continuity”

        “Jewish continuity”? You mean, first of all, (by the numbers) marrying people outside Judaism and making them mishpocha? You mean continuity by like reforming the liturgy and observances? You mean being Jewish and non- or anti-Zionist?

        Do you find those “forms of Jewish continuity” very hard to reject, “Yonah”? Many Jews seem to favor them.

        After all, there ought to be a discernible difference between the “forms of Jewish continuity” and a suicide pact.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 16, 2019, 6:39 pm

        .” I think you show zero human feelings towards the Jews.”

        “Yonah” you just go pronouncing stuff like that without proof? There is an easily available scientific method for measuring this feeling. First of all, obtain a Polygraph machine. If that offends you theologically, get a Monograph machine, doesn’t matter. Once the subject is all contacted and probed, so his (or her) every reaction is recorded, start the test.

        On second thought, probably all you’ll need is a stopwatch or a tape measure, if they break the record for the sitting high jump.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 17, 2019, 1:57 am

        You accuse Danaa of not having “human feelings towards the Jews.”

        What feelings do you think she should have?

        “Who do I identify with? … Maybe I am wrong to identify with the Jewish immigrant.”

        Now I’m completely lost. What is the point of this “identifying”? 1945 was well before you were born. Why are you clinging to the last year of history?*

        (*RoHa was born in 1946, so everything from 1946 counts as “current events”.)

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 17, 2019, 11:28 am

        Ah-ha! So that what all that ARH and BRH after dates is about.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on May 17, 2019, 6:38 pm

        mooser- I’d be interested in a conversation regarding Jewish continuity with somebody serious. you ain’t serious, dude.
        in 1968 bob gibson had an era of 1.12. in 1967 the most exciting chicago black hawk player was bobby hull, although stan mikita was also hall of fame material.
        if you want to talk 1960’s sports, we can have that conversation.

      • wondering jew
        wondering jew on May 17, 2019, 6:48 pm

        Roha, this post of mine occurred because Danaa was giving the Jews shit for reacting to jew hatred in a worse way than mexicans, blacks or some others. so i feel it was fair to ask her how she reacts to jew hatred and the most conspicuous incidence of jew hatred occurred between 1939 and 1945. so in fact she does not react or chooses not to react to jew hatred, she views it as close to her as the killing of the rwandans. now this is possibly because she really takes the death of rwandans to heart. but i bet it really means she views man’s inhumanity to man as one of the faults of the planet, something lamentable, but something which she does not take to heart on too personal a level. it’s not that she rejects jewish familyhood in order to partake of humankind brotherhood. no, she views it all as something inevitable and sad and she tries not to think about it too much. and i would advise that. sounds good. it’s in the past. let the dead bury the dead. but then she should stop giving the jews shit for taking the past personal. that’s my point.

        and danaa declared in so many words, i am a former israeli, but i am not a former jew, because i was raised as an israeli who has thrown off the exile Jew thing and adopted the soil bonded Hebrew. so i was never jewish. she said that.

        if you sue me in court, i’ll go to the trouble of finding the exact quote, but i ain’t far off. so she was the one who excommunicated herself, not me.

        but again my point to this former jew is that since you don’t give a shit about the shoah, except in some distant way, like climate change, but without the threat to the future. more like the death of the dinosaur, then please don’t give shit to people who do give a shit about the shoah.

        how to take the shoah and make something good? that’s one I don’t have an answer to. but if it ain’t yours don’t tell the jews that they are reacting to it worse than the blacks and the mexicans that’s just plain obnoxious shit.

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 18, 2019, 2:02 am

        And as a further comment on this issue, I will point out that Danaa seems to be concerned with people – actual, individual human beings.

        You seem to be concerned with “the Jewish people” – an abstract collective.

        Danaa’s feeling are more the sort of thing I regard as “human feelings”.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 18, 2019, 8:08 pm

        “I’d be interested in a conversation regarding Jewish continuity with somebody serious. you ain’t serious, dude.”

        Okay, you can be serious, and I’ll be Roebuck! We’ll start a store.

        But please, don’t let me interrupt your game of intra-Jewish religio-social backbiting. It’s our favorite indoor sport.

  25. Sibiriak
    Sibiriak on May 6, 2019, 1:42 pm

    More signs of rising antisemitism:

    Nigel Farage under fire over ‘antisemitic tropes’ on far-right US talkshow

    […] In the six identified interviews [with Alex Jones], which date from 2009 to last year, Farage, whose Brexit party is leading polls for the upcoming European elections, repeatedly uses words and phrases such as “globalists” and “new world order”, which regularly feature in antisemitic ideas.

    In the interviews, Farage also says:

    Members of the annual Bilderberg gathering of political and business leaders are plotting a global government.

    The banking and political systems are working “hand in glove” in an attempt to disband nation states.

    “Globalists” are trying to engineer a world war as a means to introduce a worldwide government.

    Climate change is a “scam” intended to push forward this transnational government.

    In the most recent interview, filmed in April last year, Farage said the EU is “the prototype for the new world order”, and “globalists have wanted to have some form of conflict with Russia as an argument for us all to surrender our national sovereignty and give it up to a higher global level”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/06/nigel-farage-under-fire-alleged-antisemitic-tropes-far-right-us-talkshow-alex-jones

    • Keith
      Keith on May 6, 2019, 4:12 pm

      SIBIRIAK- “More signs of rising antisemitism:”

      It would appear that opposition to the neoliberal globalization project of the 1% will be re-defined as a form of anti-Semitism and punished accordingly. It is somewhat similar to describing naked imperial warmongering as “humanitarian intervention.” Verbal camouflage used to hide ugly reality and make repression palatable.

  26. Jackdaw
    Jackdaw on May 6, 2019, 4:43 pm

    @Fool Weiss

    You want to clean up Dodge, start here.

    American Muslims Teaching Their Kids to Chop Off Heads of Jews.
    https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5505222,00.html

    • Mooser
      Mooser on May 6, 2019, 5:13 pm

      “American Muslims Teaching Their Kids to Chop Off Heads of Jews”

      Gee, I wonder why this message of imminent danger is not getting through to American Jews:

      “The Institute for Social Policy and Understanding has a new public opinion report out…one key finding: of all religious or ethnic groups in America, Jews have by far the most positive attitudes toward Muslims.”

      • Jackdaw
        Jackdaw on May 7, 2019, 12:49 am

        @mooser

        When you stick your head in the sand, it makes it all the easier to chop your head off.

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 7, 2019, 12:29 pm

        What are you talking about? I can’t execute myself. Because, in the first place, self-decapitation is an extremely
        difficult, not to say dangerous, thing to attempt; and, in the second, it’s suicide, and suicide is a capital offence!

        My dear “Jackdaw” awkwardness of your position is grace itself compared with that of a man engaged in the act of cutting off his own head.

      • eljay
        eljay on May 7, 2019, 1:52 pm

        || Mooser: What are you talking about? I can’t execute myself. Because, in the first place, self-decapitation is an extremely difficult … ||

        Ha! A strong fighting Jew can decapitate himself like that! if he wants to. Clearly you are not one of them.  :-(

      • RoHa
        RoHa on May 7, 2019, 8:19 pm

        The historians tell us that the King of Yüeh started a battle with the dramatic tactic of having a group of soldiers line up in front of his army, and then decapitate themselves. While the enemy was still aghast at the sight, his army then charged.

        Not the sort of tactic you would want to use often. The enemy would quickly start saying, “Nah, we’re not sufficiently shocked and awed yet. Do it again.”

        What I would like to know is how you learn the technique. You can’t really rehearse, but you’d want to get it right, wouldn’t you?

        Imagine, there you are with two armies watching you. The sergeant gives the word of command. “Squad. Decapi – wait for it, that man, wait for it – decapi TATE!”

        And everyone in the squad swings his sword and lops his head off.

        Except you.

        You just nick your ear.

        Wouldn’t it be embarrassing!

        From then on, people would be pointing at you and sniggering, “He’s the guy who failed to cut his head off.”

        Honestly, you’d just want to die.

        So how can you make certain you’d succeed?

      • Mooser
        Mooser on May 8, 2019, 10:46 am

        “So how can you make certain you’d succeed?”

        I’m going to take lessons. I mean to begin with a guinea pig, and work my way through the animal kingdom till I come to a Second Trombone.
        And then, that Hammond-organist! I’ve got him on the list, he never will be missed.

  27. Mooser
    Mooser on May 7, 2019, 6:53 pm

    “Clearly you are not one of them.”

    I’ve never even killed a blue-bottle.

    • eljay
      eljay on May 7, 2019, 8:48 pm

      || Mooser: … I’ve never even killed a blue-bottle. ||

      Neither have I, but I’m not a gin man. I prefer killing bottles of single-malt Scotch.  :-)

  28. Ossinev
    Ossinev on May 11, 2019, 7:26 am

    @Sibiriak
    “Nigel Farage under fire over ‘antisemitic tropes’ on far-right US talkshow”

    For all his faults like George Galloway Nigel Farage is not someone to take take on lightly. He knows his stuff and in a debate situation knows how to “eviscerate” braindead opponents.

    As for the “globalism” A/S crap it is high time someone out there produced an encyclopaedic dictionary of words and references which may be picked upon by the Ziofreaks as evidence of outrageous “Anti – Semitism” eg you can`t say a man walked into a bar and told the one about capitalists trying to take over the world economy.

    Perhaps the dictionary can be appended to the grotesque IHRA A/S definition.

    And just to cover all eventualities all MSM outlets should be required by law to filter all and every item through the PAST (Potential Anti Semitic Trope) dictionary – including sports results and news and yes Royal Baby news.

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