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Trump’s embrace of apartheid was brought to you by the organized Jewish community

Opinion
on 89 Comments

Yesterday in the fallout over the Trump peace plan, the young Jewish group IfNotNow said that most American Jews oppose Israeli occupation and AIPAC doesn’t represent the American Jewish community.

This is a false understanding. The Trump peace plan was brought to you by the Jewish community. Over the last 20 years any real and vigorous opposition to the Jewish right– AIPAC–inside the Jewish community has been fitful and meaningless. Liberal Zionists have enforced that line by refusing to organize as equals with the community Israel is oppressing: Palestinians.

Yes, the liberal Zionist wing of the American Jewish community has opposed settlements on principle for at least 20 years. But whenever push came to shove it has sold that principle out in favor of Jewish communal cohesion and support for the Israeli government. And it has helped to crush real and effective dissent. Jewish groups that forcefully opposed Israeli policy (Jewish Voice for Peace, for example, and IfNotNow too) have been repeatedly ostracized by the Jewish community as heretics and self-haters.

The clearest expression of what I am saying was the presence in the White House yesterday of Malcolm Hoenlein, the executive vice chairman of the rightwing Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations. Hoenlein loves Trump’s plan. Malcolm Hoenlein has access and a lot of power over U.S. policy. Malcolm Hoenlein came in and out of the Obama White House too.

And Malcolm Hoenlein’s salary is paid in part by Americans for Peace Now, the anti-occupation group, because it is a member of the Conference of Presidents. Other liberal members of the Conference, Ameinu and the National Council of Jewish Women and the Reform Jews, also pay Hoenlein’s salary. And J Street would do so too, if the Conference would only let them in.

They do so because ultimately these Jewish groups place a greater value on a, Jewish communal solidarity in support of Israel and b, access to the halls of power than they do on human rights. If they really cared about the occupation, they would have quit the Conference of Presidents a long time ago. And undertaken some real action like IfNotNow’s young Jews do all the time, at AIPAC and the Damascus Gate (where Israeli police brutalized them).

Member of #IfNotNow is dragged away from Damascus Gate on Jerusalem Day, May 24, 2017.

Let’s look at a key moment in the history of Israeli expansion/colonization and the politics of the Jewish community: 2009-2011.

At that time it is arguable that a leader could have saved the two-state solution. Maybe you could have actually created a viable Palestinian state. To do so you had to stop and then reverse the settlement project. Obama said he wanted to do that after his inauguration and J Street worked with that goal in mind, to give Obama political capital inside the Jewish community so that he could oppose settlements.

Obama cratered, and so did J Street. They completely reversed themselves in 2010-2011, because of opposition from the Jewish community. It was clear that even if a lot of Jews had misgivings about the settlement project, maybe even a majority of the grass roots– the organized Jewish community, the political Jewish community, was not going to go along with Obama. So Netanyahu lectured Obama about the 1967 lines, humiliating the president at the White House, and Obama vetoed the very thing he said he was for, a resolution against settlements at the UN Security Council, and J Street changed its campaign from opposing settlements outright to, Let’s set borders. I.e., let’s accept that Israel will get the settlement blocs under an eventual agreement, and let’s just talk about where the border will be so we can keep the possibility of two states alive.

Obama and the liberal Zionists crumpled for simple reasons: because the center of the Jewish community was too far right on the issue, and Obama was dependent on that community for financial and political support.

Malcolm Hoenlein of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, inside the occupation, at the Western Wall Plaza, on Jerusalem Day, May 24, 2017. Al Aqsa mosque is visible over his right shoulder.

Never forget these facts about Obama’s political/establishment base: When he wanted to appoint Hillary Clinton as Secretary of State he reached out to her through Hoenlein, the rightwing Israel supporter, sending the signal, Foreign policy will flow through the Israel lobby. When Samantha Power wanted to become ambassador to the U.N., she needed to overcome her own record of criticisms of Israel so she acquired a sherpa to the Jewish community, Shmuley Boteach, a rightwing wingnut extremist; and it worked. When a rightwing racist Israeli prime minister– Netanyahu– came to address the Congress in 2011 and say that Jerusalem was the ancient Jewish homeland and not a settlement, the head of the Democratic National Committee, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, led the Congress in countless standing ovations.

More: After Netanyahu defied Obama on the Iran deal, he was invited into the Democratic Party’s thinktank for a fawning interview by the head of the thinktank who crowed (in a leaked email) that if she had alienated her own staff, she had attracted a major donor by doing so. That thinktank purged intellectuals who dared to criticize AIPAC, and deferred to Alan Dershowitz in doing so.

This is not the place to lay out Why the Democratic Party bends over backwards to the Jewish community. We are a traditional Democratic constituency of course. We are also the financial warchest for the Democratic Party. Just listen to the head of Emily’s List and JJ Goldberg of the Forward tell a J Street audience in 2016 about the “gigantic” and “shocking” degree of dependence by Democrats on Jewish donors. Their comments echo what Jimmy Carter’s political gurus warned him about in the late 1970s when he was about to lose a second term, in part because of his alienation of the Jewish community– due to his opposition to Israeli settlements.

But what happened under Obama was that the liberals in the Jewish community deferred to the principle established by AIPAC: Jews must use our influence to make certain there is no daylight between the US government and the Israeli one.

Now let’s consider the noble tradition of Jewish rebels inside that community who actively oppose Israeli policy and what has happened to them.

In the mid-70s the great Rabbi Arthur Waskow and other leftwing Jews of an anti-occupation group called Breira met with members of the PLO to discuss Palestinian self-determination. They were crushed by the official Jewish community, including Wolf Blitzer, who worked for AIPAC then the Jerusalem Post (a story told by Michael Staub). A few years later the great journalist Leonard Fein dared to say much what IfNotNow said yesterday, that the rightwing leader Menachem Begin was lying when he said he represented American Jews, “and the roof fell in,” Fein related years later.

I depended on wealthy liberal Jews to support Moment magazine. Money was withdrawn right and left from its support.

Then there’s Peter Beinart. I have great respect for Beinart. Again and again he has called out the official Jewish community for its support of the persecution of Palestinians. He wrote a groundbreaking article in the NY Review of Books in 2010 saying much of what I’m saying here, titled “The Failure of the American Jewish Establishment.” The piece was read by people who wouldn’t touch me with a bargepole. He then published a book called “The Crisis of Zionism,” where he said that by ennabling the occupation, American Jewish organizations had endangered the existence of the Jewish state.

In that book, Beinart bore witness to Palestinian suffering in indelible ways. That book came out eight years ago, when arguably the two-state solution was still viable. J Street recognized Beinart’s charismatic appeal to young Jews and sold t-shirts with the slogan, Beinart’s Army.

But that army never came to pass. The crisis of Zionism didn’t penetrate the American Jewish community then.

Beinart failed his own mission, because even though he had seen a crisis, he could only take half-measures. He supported Boycotts against the settlements only and distanced himself from Palestinian solidarity activists, debating them on BDS. He did so, imho, because he did not want to alienate the Jewish community, it is his world. His choice is very similar to Peace Now continuing to pay Malcolm Hoenlein’s salary. Or Richard Goldstone folding under pressure from his South African Jewish community. For historical reasons relating to our minority status/persecution, Jews didn’t want to create a public fracture over Israel…

That makes you politically feckless. It’s really like being a good white southerner in the 60s and insisting on organizing only with white people. Because you fear the agenda of the black people, who are the ones being oppressed, after all.

The true Jewish heretics get crushed, as Leonard Fein and Arthur Waskow did in their moment. J Street has exhibited a similar communal politics. It invites a lot of rightwing Jewish leaders to its stages, but it never invites Jewish anti-Zionists who support the nonviolent Palestinian program for liberation, BDS. We are ostracized from the Jewish community. Jeffrey Goldberg said anti-Zionist Jews have Jewish parents — i.e., we aren’t Jews. Yossi Klein Halevi, who is invited to both AIPAC and J Street, says we have placed ourselves outside the Jewish community. When I became an anti-Zionist, I got fired from good liberal institutions that depended on establishment Jews, the Observer and the Nation Institute.

Bari Weiss and Batya Ungar-Sargon will tell you that 95 percent of the Jewish community supports Israel. I think they’re right, or close. Maybe it’s 90 percent. Maybe it’s 75. But they are right about the critical mass; and that majority has dominated the politics of the Jewish community (not because the community is “controlled by oligarchs,” as Beinart claims, in a summons to oligarchs on his side).

In short, any real and forceful resistance to the occupation inside the Jewish community was crushed in the name of Jewish solidarity. And yesterday Malcolm Hoenlein, whose salary is paid in part by the anti-occupation group Peace Now, did an endzone dance at the White House, alongside Sheldon Adelson. Why has Americans for Peace Now helped pay this man’s enormous salary for decades if it considers the occupation a real crisis?

I admit that something has been achieved by Peace Now, J Street and Peter Beinart in the last ten years: They have ended the daylight policy and fractured the Israel lobby into two parts. A rightwing lobby that supports the Greater Israel vision that Trump embraced yesterday in the White House. And a liberal lobby that opposes it.

They have helped to politicize Israel. We might actually see a real fight in American politics over Israel, but with very limited parameters. Both sides must love Israel. And the rightwing lobby has a big footprint inside the Democratic Party.

That fracture has taken place because the Jewish community has finally split openly over Israel.

That split may be very meaningful in American and Jewish politics, but it is not going to affect Palestinians very much.

Palestinians are living as second-class citizens and worse under one government that controls all of Israel and Palestine, and their battle is for equal rights inside that state. Whose side are you on? Only a few American politicians even say this aloud. The organized Jewish community opposes that discourse, and helps pass laws to marginalize it, because it means the end of the official paradigm of a Jewish democracy.

Liberal Zionists are now in crisis over that paradigm and doing all they can to save it.

Their crisis is the death of their own dream. It is very selfish. They still refuse to organize as equals with the people directly affected by Israel’s policies, Palestinians. They don’t ultimately care about Palestinian human rights.

There is only one real group trying to work inside the Jewish community that does that, Jewish Voice for Peace– and IfNotNow is catching up. They are both marginalized. Because I have such a deep attachment to my original community, I honor what JVP does as Jews. They are the only Jewish future. Godspeed.

H/t Scott Roth, James North and Adam Horowitz.

Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is senior editor of Mondoweiss.net and founded the site in 2005-06.

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89 Responses

  1. Emet on January 29, 2020, 1:54 pm

    Phillip, I don’t think you really understand what a liberal Zionist is. It certainly is not someone who is willing to sell Jewish history and heritage down the drain, as you are.

    • eljay on January 29, 2020, 2:45 pm

      || Emet: Phillip, I don’t think you really understand what a liberal Zionist is. … ||

      Every Zionist – liberal or otherwise – is a person who suffers from the delusion that the religion-based identity of Jewish grants to those who choose to embrace it the “right”:
      – to be a supremacist;
      – to have as large as possible a supremacist state; and
      – to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality (a.k.a. “necessary evil”) he would not have others do unto him.

      A “liberal Zionist” is simply a kinder, gentler supremacist hypocrite.

      || … It certainly is not someone who is willing to sell Jewish history and heritage down the drain, as you are. ||

      It’s truly shameful the way you Zionists routinely and anti-Semitically conflate the evil you have done and the evil you continue to do with “Jewish history and heritage”.

      But I suppose that’s all part of using Jews and Judaism to “human shield” yourselves and your “Jewish State” construct against repercussions and accountability for your actions.

      • annie on January 29, 2020, 3:24 pm

        no Emet, it’s you selling Jewish history and heritage down the drain. Israel is an ugly apartheid nightmare, own it.

      • MHughes976 on January 29, 2020, 4:05 pm

        We always used on Mondoweiss, I think, to use ‘liberal Z’ to mean someone who was a Z who nevertheless believed that there could and should be a viable Palestinian sovereign state within the river to sea area. The key thing amid all the different things and all the questions and problems is Palestinian sovereignty. If Israel would really concede that some of Palestine is rightfully and absolutely Palestinian, that no claim to Jewish sovereignty on Biblical or post- Holocaust grounds will ever again be advanced in respect of that area, the grounds for a practically viable agreement might come dimly into view. But I don’t think that this concession could ever really be made. It would be a poison pill of which Zionism would perish. The lib-Z position is an attempt to reconcile contradictions.

      • Misterioso on January 30, 2020, 10:22 am

        @Annie

        “no Emet, it’s you selling Jewish history and heritage down the drain. Israel is an ugly apartheid nightmare, own it.”

        BINGO!!!

    • Talkback on January 29, 2020, 4:00 pm

      Emet: “It certainly is not someone who is willing to sell Jewish history and heritage down the drain, as you are.”

      A Zionist accusing someone of selling history and heritage down the drain. Now, I’ve read it all.

    • Donald on January 29, 2020, 5:39 pm

      So Israel is flushing the 2ss down the toilet with Trump’s help and you are still seemingly angrier at Phil then at the Israelis and their American enablers.

      Even by the professed standards of liberal Zionists, this makes no sense, unless the alleged support for a 2ss was nothing more than a fig leaf all along. I think some liberal Zionists were sincere about that, whatever one might think of the 2ss. But others clearly wanted to keep the settlement con game going without resistance for as long as possible. It worked. Congratulations.

      • Hemlockroid on January 30, 2020, 10:03 am

        Christian Zionist movement nowadays has 50 million and the drivel about right-wing Jews continues. Israel is a manifestation of Protestantism and has nothing to do with Judaism.

      • Donald on January 30, 2020, 10:55 am

        That’s ironic, because I sometimes tell Phil he doesn’t give enough blame to Christian Zionists. But you go so far in that direction your own comment is rubbish. If nearly all American Jewish organizations were serious about opposing the occupation and had pushed for American pressure on Israel, the conversation in America and our foreign policy would be very different. People would look at the Christian Zionists as though they had two heads. They would have influence, but only on some far right Republicans.

        ” Israel is a manifestation of Protestantism and has nothing to do with Judaism.”

        Delusional. It is a manifestation of one form of Judaism, with support from a manifestation of Protestantism. Do you really think that making absurd overstatements somehow makes them true?

      • MHughes976 on January 30, 2020, 12:10 pm

        The use of Mondoweiss comments for continual bashing of a particular religion is contrary to Comments Policy Rule 1, which I think the Mods should enforce.

      • echinococcus on January 30, 2020, 1:23 pm

        Hughes,

        Why should “the Mods” enforce anything?
        If they do, wouldn’t the Rockers be entitled to do the same?
        Once a forum is infested by Zionist propaganda, what worse can conceivably be left to censor?

        In particular, why censor religion-bashing, generic or singular? Is religion, or a religion, sacred now?

      • Mooser on January 30, 2020, 3:52 pm

        “Israel is a manifestation of Protestantism and has nothing to do with Judaism.”

        Try telling that to Israelis and/or Jewish Zionists. They want to hog all the credit for the entire project!

      • Mooser on January 30, 2020, 4:54 pm

        “Why should “the Mods” enforce anything?”

        Because there are rules. For the Mods, you have to have short hair, money enough to buy a real smart suit, good shoes, good shirts; you have to be able to dance like a madman. You have to be in possession of plenty of pills all the time and always be pilled up. You have to have a scooter covered in lamps. You have to have like an army anorak to wear on the scooter.
        I can’t keep up with that.

    • Misterioso on January 29, 2020, 7:29 pm

      @Emet

      Spare us your nonsense!!

      BRAVO PHILIP!!!

  2. Boomer on January 29, 2020, 2:12 pm

    I commend you and the others who saw the truth and spoke truth to power. You had the courage of your convictions, you paid the price. You fought the good fight.

  3. Atlantaiconoclast on January 29, 2020, 4:16 pm

    Thanks Phillip. This acknowledgement is progress! I have long said that the Jewish establishment is the main problem. Why some people see this as hate speech boggles my mind. If it was the Christian Right at fault, people would have no issue calling it out.

    Just the other day, Medea Benjamin was speaking out against the Trump plan by calling Christian Zionists. While it is true they play a role, the fact that the Christian Zionists have been unable to enact their social agenda is a big clue that they are not the most powerful force behind US subservience to Israel.

  4. pabelmont on January 29, 2020, 4:31 pm

    Phil — you tell a sad story very well.

  5. WeAreAllMadeOfStars on January 29, 2020, 5:21 pm

    Dear Phil, you call a spade a spade and I thank you for that. I can sense some kind of rage or anger in your words but to me this post is a milestone. It is truly a sad post but surely one of your best.

  6. Keith on January 29, 2020, 6:07 pm

    PHIL- “They do so because ultimately these Jewish groups place a greater value on a, Jewish communal solidarity in support of Israel and b, access to the halls of power than they do on human rights.”

    How did you sneak this past moderation? Is this the return of the old radical Phil or am I dreaming?

  7. vwbeetle on January 29, 2020, 6:31 pm

    The term “liberal Zionist” is an oxymoron.

  8. wondering jew on January 29, 2020, 8:51 pm

    Those who favor a Jewish state in the 1967 borders naturally oppose BDS, because the movement is not consonant with such a goal. JVP tells us that Zionism was always wrong and was never right and yet people who disagree with their philosophy should realize that JVP is great.

    Weiss makes no sense.

    Americans for Peace Now and Beinart lack (and have always lacked) a coherent strategy to achieve their goals and this is a critique that makes sense, but what Weiss writes here makes no sense.

    • bcg on January 29, 2020, 9:33 pm

      @WJ: “Obama and the liberal Zionists crumpled for simple reasons: because the center of the Jewish community was too far right on the issue, and Obama was dependent on that community for financial and political support.”

      That’s from the essay and summarizes the entire point Phil is making. You can disagree, but how does that not “make sense”?

      • wondering jew on January 29, 2020, 9:48 pm

        I do not disagree regarding the center of the Jewish community, I disagree regarding the left Zionists, claiming that they should have joined in with BDS, that they should now join with JVP.

      • Misterioso on January 30, 2020, 10:50 am

        @wondering Jew

        Wake up!! “Israel” is on a one way trip to disaster. Utterly dependent on U.S. taxpayers’ funding, Zionism’s racist/fascistic foundation is crumbling ever faster due in large measure to the two corrupt, lying thugs, Trump and Netanyahu as well as a rapidly increasing worldwide realization of what an expansionist monster “Israel” truly is.

        All so predictable long ago:

        Then Secretary of State for India and the British cabinet’s only Jewish member, Lord Edwin Montagu’s response to Prime Minister Lloyd George following issuance of the illegal 1917 Balfour Declaration: “All my life I have been trying to get out of the ghetto. You want to force me back there.”

        Henry Morgenthau Sr., former U.S. Ambassador to Turkey, 1919: “Zionism is the most stupendous fallacy in Jewish history…. The very fervour of my feeling for the oppressed of every race and every land, especially for the Jews, those of my own blood and faith, to whom I am bound by every tender tie, impels me to fight with all the greater force against this scheme, which my intelligence tells me can only lead them deeper into the mire of the past, while it professes to be leading them to the heights. Zionism is… a retrogression into the blackest error, and not progress toward the light.” (Quoted by Frank Epp, Whose Land is Palestine? p. 261)

        In 1939, Albert Einstein wrote: “There could be no greater calamity than a permanent discord between us and the Arab people… we must strive for a just and lasting compromise with the Arab people…. Let us recall that in former times no people lived in greater friendship with us than the ancestors of these Arabs.” (Einstein and Zionism by Banesh Hoffmann, in General Relativity and Gravitation, eds. G. Shaviv and J. Rosen, Wiley, 1975, p. 242)

        To quote Einstein from his testimony before the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry in January 1946, when he was asked whether refugee settlement in Palestine demanded a Jewish state, he replied: “The State idea is not according to my heart. I cannot understand why it is needed. It is connected with narrow-mindedness and economic obstacles. I believe it is bad. I have always been against it.”

        Eminent American Jewish scholar and writer, Dr. Alfred Lilienthal, related a personal conversation with Einstein: “Dr Einstein told me that, strangely enough, he had never been a Zionist and had never favored the creation of the State of Israel. Also, he told me of a significant conversation with [Chaim] Weizmann [then leader of the World Zionist Organization.] Einstein had asked him: ‘What about the Arabs if Palestine were given to the Jews?’ And Weizmann said: ‘What Arabs? They are hardly of any consequence.'” (What Price Israel? p. 131)

      • Mooser on January 30, 2020, 4:00 pm

        Amazing, isn’t it? All of a sudden the most precious thing about Judaism, the thing our religion, traditions and community depend on, is the ability to enforce apartheid in Palestine.

      • echinococcus on January 30, 2020, 5:12 pm

        Mooser,

        ” All of a sudden the most precious thing about Judaism… is the ability to enforce apartheid in Palestine.”

        Sudden? Well, in the overall scheme of things, I mean compared to thing like geological eras, 100+ years is quite sudden. Ye’re right.

    • Donald on January 30, 2020, 12:09 am

      “ I disagree regarding the left Zionists, claiming that they should have joined in with BDS, that they should now join with JVP.“

      At this stage, who cares? Maybe Phil was wrong, but not for the reasons you say. Maybe he was wrong because there were virtually no left Zionists who really wanted a 2ss if it meant putting pressure on Israel to obtain it.

      Self described Liberal Zionists have had a lock on the American political mainstream on this issue for decades. And settlement growth just kept going on. By your own supposed standards liberal Zionism has been a catastrophic failure. Go ahead and put some blame on Palestinians if you like, because it doesn’t matter. Deny Israeli war crimes all you want. ( Not saying you necessarily do, but some self described liberal Zionists do.). Nobody who professes to want a 2ss could possibly see settlements as anything other than a disaster.

      But all most liberal Zionists ever seemed to do is profess hope for some 2ss someday, just so long as nobody actually put any pressure on Israel. It’s almost as though the whole ideology was some sort of self- serving rationalization except for maybe a small minority who really meant it. Suckers.

    • Talkback on January 30, 2020, 8:46 am

      wj: “Those who favor a Jewish state in the 1967 borders naturally oppose BDS, because the movement is not consonant with such a goal. ”

      Not true!

      “The Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions (BDS) movement works to end international support for Israel’s oppression of Palestinians and pressure Israel to comply with international law.”

      So allow me to rephrase your statement.
      Those who favor a Jewish state that violates international law naturally oppose BDS, because the movement is not consonant with such a goal.

      wj: “VP tells us that Zionism was always wrong and was never right and yet people who disagree with their philosophy should realize that JVP is great.”

      Of course. If you oppose JVP you are antisemitic according to your own reasoning, because you oppose Jews.

    • James Canning on January 30, 2020, 3:52 pm

      @wandering jew

      BDS movement could help create a true independent Palestine, and keep Israel within its 1967 borders.

      • oldgeezer on January 30, 2020, 10:25 pm

        @wonderingjew

        ” There are not any prominent BDS’ers who would say that the right of return must be limited. (I would limit it to half a million Palestinians allowed to return to ’67 Israel. ”

        The palestine papers (wikileaks iirc) clearly showed that the Palestinians had agreed to 1/5th of that.

        Keep apologizing for the racist supremacist outlaw state. It and it’s supporters are vile in the extreme,

      • oldgeezer on January 30, 2020, 11:04 pm

        @wondering jew

        “There’s nothing that the leftist Zionists like beinart could have done. The mainstream won and Bibi won.`

        Ludicrous. combine with your typical apologia. There have always been many options. Rather than choose them the zionist left chose to protect Israel thereby enabling the zionist right to perpetrate crimes against humanity on a massive scale.

        The zionist left is equally culpable, if not even more so, than the zionist right both for the crimes perpetrated and where we find ourselves now.

    • wondering jew on January 30, 2020, 9:01 pm

      To restate : Indeed the anti occupation movement (rather than the antizionist movement) has been feckless. I think that their (our) refusal to join the BDS movement is natural, they/we feel that BDS is not consonant with our hearts, or our innards. There are not any prominent BDS’ers who would say that the right of return must be limited. (I would limit it to half a million Palestinians allowed to return to ’67 Israel. if i was a politician, I would not make a blanket statement like that, but as a peanut gallery’nik, i have that freedom.) but i would not write a blank check and as such I would find myself alone among the BDS people, so i don’t fit. but it is not ideological, it is a gut check, which side are you on? and BDS has not made Zionists feel welcome to any degree. how many from the left will take my attitude?
      i don’t know. those for whom 1967 or 1974 or 1982 or 1987 or 1993 or 1995 are ancient history rather than remembered history, will react differently. but this is a gut decision.
      But if the path forward is one state, then we have lost and in the long run there will be one man one vote in the territory. I think that is somewhere between 30 to 100 years off and from this vantage point the resulting Palestine will be as messy as beirut if not messier and i think that is a result that is natural to rebel against.

      • wondering jew on January 30, 2020, 9:19 pm

        I think the critical moment (in Israel was when Olmert handed over to Bibi and Livni was unprepared to grab the moment and instead Bibi took over. In the US the critical moment) was at the start of the Obama administration and it would not have required BDS, just a statement that Obama was right and Bibi was wrong and Obama was the path to 2 states and Bibi was the path to one state. But the mainstream were not ready to listen to this message and the mainstream backed Bibi and thus we are here on the path of one state. There’s nothing that the leftist Zionists like beinart could have done. The mainstream won and Bibi won.

      • wondering jew on January 31, 2020, 6:57 am

        I think the critique of the fecklessness of liberal Zionists is appropriate and plans should be made in case trump loses to the democratic candidate. (If trump wins, it’s not worth the effort to resuscitate hope for two states.)

      • Talkback on January 31, 2020, 1:42 pm

        wj: “There are not any prominent BDS’ers who would say that the right of return must be limited.”

        On other hand there are many prominent Jewish racists who want to limit the human rights of Nonjews. And even more who aren’t prominent. Like you.

        wj: “(I would limit it to half a million Palestinians allowed to return to ’67 Israel. if i was a politician, I would not make a blanket statement like that, but as a peanut gallery’nik, i have that freedom.)”

        I see. There are about 7.2 million Palestinian refugees and you only want to violate the human rights of 6.7 million. This must be one of these “generous offers”. What do you think about violating the human rights of 6.7 million Jews in return? Let’s take the whole Jewish population of Israel. What do you think? Does that sound fair to you, too?

      • Mooser on January 31, 2020, 2:50 pm

        If you want a vision of the ‘mainstream’ Jewish future, according to “wj”, imagine a boot stamping on a Palestinian face – forever.

  9. Elizabeth Block on January 30, 2020, 9:01 am

    Absolutely right. (And the details about Clinton et alia – very interesting, and new to me.)
    Christian Zionists wouldn’t get very far without the backing of Zionist Jews. Just as anti-Zionist Christians need the support of anti-Zionist Jews.
    People ask me – this is in Toronto – what about the Israeli peace camp? What peace camp! Every time there’s a “war” on Gaza, or the possibility of one, Peace Now and its supporters fold and support the government.
    Ten years ago Canadian Quakers called on Israel and any future state of Palestine to grant the same rights, privileges, responsibilities etc. to all their respective citizens – that is, to be democracies, not ethnocracies, and for Israel to cease to be a Jewish state. Imagine Canada, or the US, as Christian states the way Israel is a Jewish state.

    • Antidote on January 30, 2020, 10:22 am

      “Christian Zionists wouldn’t get very far without the backing of Zionist Jews. Just as anti-Zionist Christians need the support of anti-Zionist Jews.”

      Jewish Zionism would not have got anywhere without the very old movement of Christian Zionism, which has long been related to imperial designs based on cultural and/or racial superiority fantasies – esp. in the Anglo-Saxon / Anglo-American world.

      https://www.persee.fr/doc/assr_0335-5985_1991_num_75_1_1609

    • Mooser on January 30, 2020, 4:03 pm

      “Christian Zionists wouldn’t get very far without the backing of Zionist Jews.”

      The “backing” or the ‘fronting’?

    • jon s on January 31, 2020, 3:20 pm

      It so happens that Peace Now will be demonstrating in Tel Aviv tomorrow against the Netanyahu-Trump “peace” sham.
      As to Israel as a Jewish state I would point out that in the UK the monarch is head of the Church of England, the Union Jack flag is a combination of Christian crosses , and the Arab states are proud of the Islamic component in their identity. The Palestinians themselves aim to establish an Islamic state. But the Jews can’t have a Jewish state.

      • Mooser on January 31, 2020, 3:33 pm

        “Jon s” is always ready to pimp Judaism to support apartheid.

        Maybe it all comes down to the fact that today’s Zionists know that if Jewish Israelis were mixing with Palestinians on equal terms, their kids would marry them like crazy. Look how it is in America!

      • Bumblebye on January 31, 2020, 6:32 pm

        jon s, someone needs to point out to you that the UK doesn’t have a mess of laws creating any apartheid between one set of citizens or another. It doesn’t denationalise any citizens of the wrong faith or ethnicity. It doesn’t disenfranchise one set of citizens or another in any of its constitutive parts. It doesn’t deny the right to anyone of buying property (or renting) anywhere they may wish to. Citizens of any constitutive part are not denied from driving on the roads of any other part. And so on and so forth through any number – 60+ – of discriminatory israeli laws.

      • eljay on January 31, 2020, 6:59 pm

        || jon s on January 31, 2020, 3:20 pm ||

        Zionism 101: Murderers exist, so it’s OK to rape.

      • RoHa on February 1, 2020, 2:00 am

        “But the Jews can’t have a Jewish state.”

        You want to pretend that this is a matter of religious discrimination. It isn’t.

        1. First objection to the state of Israel.

        The state was conceived and created on the basis of invading Palestine and taking the land away from the Palestinian Arabs. This formation of a “Jewish State” was an evil act, and has been followed by continual evil.

        The objection is not religious. The act would be just as evil if a bunch of Cao Dai believers invaded Tonga and took the land away from the Tongans.

        2. Second objection to the State of Israel.

        A Christian state would be one that runs on Christian religious principles. An Islamic state would be one that runs on Islamic religious principles.

        But Israel is not just a state that runs on Jewish religious principles.
        It is a state which gives special privileges to citizens of Jewish ethnicity. “Jewish” does not mean religious in this context, but ethnic.

        The objection is not to the religion, but the ethnic privilege.

        So your pathetic whine is unfounded.

      • Talkback on February 1, 2020, 7:27 am

        @ jon s

        Contrary to other states when Israel defines itself as a Jewish state it doesn’t only mean that Judaism is its official religion, but that only Jews belong to the nation of this state and Nonjews have a lesser legal status. It’s by design that the right to equality is not constutionally enshrined in the law of an Apartheid state.

  10. orkassem on January 30, 2020, 9:05 am

    Thank you, Phil, for having the courage to write this article and for your work at Mondoweiss. If it were not for Jews like yourself it would be very easy for me as an American Arab to hate all Jews, but you help to remind me that maybe there is hope for the future.

  11. Hemlockroid on January 30, 2020, 10:00 am

    Christian Zionist movement nowadays has 50 million and the drivel about right-wing Jews continues. Israel is a manifestation of Protestantism and has nothing to do with Judaism.

    • Antidote on January 30, 2020, 10:25 am

      Except that Protestantism has a lot to do with Judaism, of course

      • MHughes976 on January 30, 2020, 12:43 pm

        I came across a review by Raphael Margarik in the Forward for August 29 last, a review of Daniel Hummel’s book ‘Covenant Brothers’, which very much expands on what Antidote says. What we call Christian Zionism these days was shaped and fostered by many Jewish forces and is highly philo-Semitic. I may see if I can find Hummel’s book. It may, from what I can see, be a little too sparing in its judgement on the earlier generations of ‘more desired than our own salvation’ Protestant ‘Restaurationists’ and proto-Zionists, who certainly did their share of harm.

      • Mooser on January 30, 2020, 4:19 pm

        ” Protestant ‘Restaurationists’”

        A group who thought they could make reservations in Palestine for all the Jews of Europe. “Take Out For The Holy Land” was their motto.

    • eljay on January 30, 2020, 10:27 am

      || Hemlockroid: … Israel is a manifestation of Protestantism and has nothing to do with Judaism. ||

      It has nothing to do with Judaism but everything to do with the delusional belief held by Jewish and non-Jewish Zionists that the religion-based identity of Jewish grants to those who choose to embrace it the “right”:
      – to be supremacists;
      – to have as large as possible a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”; and
      – to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality (a.k.a. “necessary evil”).

  12. echinococcus on January 30, 2020, 1:33 pm

    There is a slight correction needed in the text above:

    “A rightwing lobby that supports the Greater Israel vision that Trump embraced yesterday in the White House. And a liberal lobby…”
    … that is committed, since the early 1980es, to realizing that same vision by other means, means more palatable to the Western powers.

    A “human face” on Zionist invasion and genocide provides a viable pretext to Zionist accomplices in Europe.

  13. JustJessetr on January 30, 2020, 5:51 pm

    Lots to respect in this essay, until I’m reminded why I bitterly oppose BDS.

    “They are the only Jewish future. Godspeed.”

    As I’ve suspected all along, the Jews who support BDS would like nothing more than to separate the good Jews from the bad Jews. A disgustingly self-righteous, destructive, and divisive position to take.

    I am very proud to have led the effort to oppose BDS, and crushed it, at the Park Slope Food Coop. In its place we have Palestinian Olive Oil and other Palestinian products that members who belong to BDS and those that oppose it have (in a collective effort) brought to the shelves. We all agree that supporting the Palestinians with money is bound to give them more political power than just empty slogans. It’s a shame that more couldn’t have done the same around the world and a lot sooner. If they had, this horrible deal of the century might not have come to pass.

    • Donald on January 30, 2020, 6:49 pm

      Yes, you were fighting the good fight against the mighty all conquering BDS movement while the US government with the enthusiastic support of American Zionists, Jewish and Christian, pretended to oppose the occupation while supporting Israel in every substantive way possible.

      It’s almost as though the professed priorities of most liberal Zionists never really lined up with their actions.

      • JustJessetr on January 30, 2020, 8:52 pm

        Yes, the BDS movement at the PSFC and I came to an agreement that supporting Palestinian businesses was a more effective way to support Palestinians overall. We all agreed that boycotting was useless after all.

        BDS is dead at the PSFC.

      • echinococcus on January 30, 2020, 9:15 pm

        So you came to an agreement with “liberal” Zionist unspeakables, those who participate in “BDS” limitedly to the post-67 portion of the invasion of Palestine, their only objective being that of better guaranteeing that invader offspring continue to invoke a “right” to squat unauthorized in Palestine while running “antisemitism” witchhunts under the unlikely cover of “solidarity with Palestine”.

        So what? Zionists agreeing with Zionists.

        Some people here will swallow that, of course. After all, the Zionists still have a monopoly on propaganda and enough means to infiltrate the solidarity movement and direct good part of it.

      • JustJessetr on January 30, 2020, 9:32 pm

        @ Echinoccerous

        “So you came to an agreement with “liberal” Zionist unspeakables, those who participate in “BDS” limitedly to the post-67 portion of the invasion of Palestine, their only objective being that of better guaranteeing that invader offspring continue to invoke a “right” to squat unauthorized in Palestine while running “antisemitism” witchhunts under the unlikely cover of “solidarity with Palestine”.

        No, you are completely wrong (not surprising because you aren’t there). They wanted, and continue to want, a one-state solution called Palestine.

        “So what? Zionists agreeing with Zionists.”

        They would never call themselves Zionists. They believe in Palestine only.

        “Some people here will swallow that, of course. After all, the Zionists still have a monopoly on propaganda and enough means to infiltrate the solidarity movement and direct good part of it.”

        I didn’t infiltrate anything. Three of them came to me because the Palestinian Olive Oil was originally my idea. They wanted to know the process , nose to tail, of getting it onto the shelves. They took my good “Zionist’s” idea and used it themselves because they see how useless boycotting has been. Can you blame them? Palestinians are dying because of ideological purity.

      • Talkback on January 31, 2020, 2:26 am

        JustJessetr: “Palestinians are dying because of ideological purity.”

        That’s one way to call Zionist Apartheid.

      • echinococcus on January 31, 2020, 9:17 am

        Everything is possible on earth — so I’ll have to look into your nonsense.

      • Mooser on January 31, 2020, 2:56 pm

        ” and I came to an agreement that…” “JustJessetr”

        Please, that wasn’t you. It was a guy named Jesse T. Rosenfeld, (as accurately as I can remember without the archive.)

        Yes, that’s right, Jesse T Rosefeld. There are several Mondo articles about it.

      • JustJessetr on January 31, 2020, 7:05 pm

        “That’s one way to call Zionist Apartheid.”

        Well, even the right-wing Israeli newspapers think Israel has moved too far to the right. So I’d agree with you there.

        Of course, I really meant the whole Palestinian fantasy of wanting all the land between the river and sea, encouraged most fervently by BDS. As a result BDS is highly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Palestinians who lent hope that Israel could be boycotted into submission, that Israel was exactly like South Africa or Ghandi’s India. At least one can say that boycotting the Jews (before Israel ever existed) or Israel itself has only shrunk the territory Palestinians could have had by right. BDS at the PSFC understands that now, which is why they support olive oil grown by Israelis and Palestinians together. It’s quite tasty and it shows the benefits of normalization, something they were against up until just recently.

        I can see that Israel will one day fall out of favor with the US, but by that time they will have pivoted to China and India and unfortunately the trend of shrinking Palestinian territory in the West Bank will accelerate. All because the Palestinians were encouraged to maintain a kind of moral and political purity by BDS. A shame, really, that BDS could be so misguided and destructive to the people they claim to help.

      • Talkback on January 31, 2020, 9:56 pm

        JustJessetr “Of course, I really meant the whole Palestinian fantasy of wanting all the land between the river and sea, …”

        It’s not fantasies that are killing Palestinians, but Jews, who actually kill them. Especially in the process of not only fantasizing, but actually implementing the fantasy of a Jewish state between the river and the sea.

        JustJessetr “… encouraged most fervently by BDS”

        That’s a lie BDS neither encourages a one nor a two state solution. It’s goal is to bring Israel to comply with international law.

        Just: “As a result BDS is highly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Palestinians …”

        That’s a pretty disgusting lie. It’s not BDS that is highly responsible for the deaths of thousands of Palestinians, but Jews who actually kill them.

        JustJessetr: “who lent hope that Israel could be boycotted into submission”

        I know that you prefer the total submission of Nonjews to Israel’s Apartheid and its violation of international law and human rights.

        JustJessetr: “that Israel was exactly like South Africa or Ghandi’s India.”

        That’s another lie. Nobody claims that Israel is “exactly” like South Africa. Israel is accused of committing the crime against Apartheid as defined in international law. Denying Nonjews to return to maintain a regime dominated by Jews is blatant Apartheid according to this definition. And that’s not the only aparheid policy that Israel practices.

        JustJessetr: “At least one can say that boycotting the Jews (before Israel ever existed) or Israel itself has only shrunk the territory Palestinians could have had by right.”

        What shrunk their territory they were entitled to was not any boycott, but the hostile take over of this territory by Jewish terrrorists since 1948 through war, expulsion, illegal annexation, illegal confiscation, illegal transformation into state land, blatant dispossession. and property theft of Nonjews it keeps expelled.

        JustJessetr: “BDS at the PSFC understands that now, which is why they support olive oil grown by Israelis and Palestinians together. It’s quite tasty and it shows the benefits of normalization, something they were against up until just recently.”

        There is no normalization with Apartheid. Apartheid is not the norm, but blatant instituitionalized racism. IsraeL’s distinction between nationals (aka Jews) and “citizens” was similarly practiced by Nazis.

        JustJessetr “… the trend of shrinking Palestinian territory in the West Bank will accelerate. All because the Palestinians were encouraged to maintain a kind of moral and political purity by BDS. A shame, really, that BDS could be so misguided and destructive to the people they claim to help.”

        That’s just another lie. The Palestinian territory in the Westbank shrinks solely, because of Israel’s land theft, illegal settlements, illegal de facto or de jure annexations, an illegaly build wall, illegaly confiscated territory in an illegally prolonged occupation whether Palestinans boycott Israel or not.

        It’s quite pathetic that you have to distract from Israel’s violation against international law and human rights and blame the direct consequences of these dehumanizing crimes against Palestinians on BDS. From whom did you learn this defamation tactic to blame the victims for their oppresion? Frolm antisemites? Disgusting.

      • JustJessetr on February 1, 2020, 7:49 am

        Talkback, this is exactly the kind of useless moralizing that is killing Palestinians. Look at yourself, you are contributing to it. It’s not only you, of course. Israel has done its disgusting and thoroughly reprehensible part. But your purity and your Jew-hatred ( you use the word Jew more than once when you could have simply said Israeli or Zionist) has only hurt Palestinians. BDS is not about anything but slamming Israel. And BDS has lost. The Palestinians are suffering, and BDS is crushed at the Park Slope Food Co-op. You’re down. You’re toast. Time to move on.

      • eljay on February 1, 2020, 8:23 am

        || JustJessetr: … Jew-hatred ( you use the word Jew more than once when you could have simply said Israeli or Zionist) … ||

        Zionists are overfilled with Jew-hatred. They constantly use Jew / Jewish / “the Jews” when they could simply say Israeli(s) or Zionist(s).

      • Talkback on February 1, 2020, 10:03 am

        JustJessetr: “Talkback, this is exactly the kind of useless moralizing that is killing Palestinians. Look at yourself, you are contributing to it.”

        Nope, “useless moralizing” is not lethal and I have never contributed to killing Palestininas. Israeli soldiers are killing them. Any are contributing to it by blaming everybody else, but the killers.

        JustJesstr: “But your purity and your Jew-hatred ( you use the word Jew more than once when you could have simply said Israeli or Zionist) has only hurt Palestinians.”

        Nope. What hurts Palestinians is a Jewish state and an occupation maintained by Jews and Jewish violence and killings of Nonjews in Palestine. And why should refer to Jews as “Israelis” or “Zionist” when not all Israelis or Zionists are Jewish? Im not targeting Jews for the only factor that they are Jews, but for some Jews do to Palestinians so your accusation of Jew hatred and your accusation of me or Palestinans for their deaths while whitewashing the real killers, because they are Jewish tells me something about your “purity” and “hatred”.

        JustJessetr: “BDS is not about anything but slamming Israel.”

        Slamming Israel for its violations of international law and illegally prolonged occupation. And it has every right to slam Israel for that to pursue its goal of ending this pervert half century long occupation and Apartheid.

        JustJessetr: “The Palestinians are suffering, …”

        Because of people like you and those you need to whitewash.

        JustJessetr: “… and BDS is crushed at the Park Slope Food Co-op. You’re down. You’re toast. Time to move on.”

        Like I said before: I know that you prefer the total submission of Nonjews to Israel’s Apartheid and its violation of international law and human rights.

        And now it is your violent “Your down. Your toast” language that is really revealing your true violent, hostile and dehumanizing nature. Do you need to blame me or the Palestinians for it, too, or what you have done to them? You see, you don’t know me if you think that I’m not going to immediately imagine what you are saying as something that Nazis could have easily said to Jews. It allows me a deeper understanding why Yeshua Leibowitz coined the term “Judeonazi”.

      • JustJessetr on February 1, 2020, 11:51 am

        @talkback.

        The only difference between that same useless, hateful litany now and before now is that now you have to say the exact same thing to BDS at the PSFC. Remember, they copied my idea.

      • Talkback on February 1, 2020, 5:39 pm

        JustJessetr: “The only difference between that same useless, hateful litany now and before now is that now you have to say the exact same thing to BDS at the PSFC. Remember, they copied my idea.”

        Yeah, remember the Belgian King and the Congolese? Or the Afrikaaners and the blacks? What a beautiful economic cooperation that was, too. I can assure you that the Congolese and Southafricans are missing every minute.

        But please explain what you view as “hateful litany”. You started to accuse me of hatred against Jews, allthough the fact that they are Jewish is absolutely irrelevant to my correct assessment (just ask any forensic expert) that it’s not BDS that is killing Palestinians but Jews. The real racism and hatred was to accuse me of hatred, only because I rightfully pointed that out, allthough they are Jews. Because that’s blasphemous to any Jewish racist narcissists who is psychological immature to take responsibility, isnt It.

    • echinococcus on January 30, 2020, 7:29 pm

      Jesse the Just reminds us in time of the only thing that counts for the Zionists (as long as it isn’t about themselves:

      “We all agree that supporting the Palestinians with money…”

      Yarright. “We all” may agree, you and the likes of you — without the rest of humanity.

      And no, money only means power if you have oodles of it — enough to buy an army.

      • JustJessetr on January 30, 2020, 8:53 pm

        It isn’t just what you call Zionists. It was the BDS movement at PSFC as well.

    • Talkback on January 31, 2020, 2:58 am

      Justjessetr: “I am very proud to have led the effort to oppose BDS, and crushed it …”

      Yes, like any other supporter of Apartheid would be very proud to crush resistance to Apartheid and not only promotoes selling products of the Apartheid state , but also those who suffer from it.

      You are a moral beacon to all mankind. Don’t listen to those who claim that you have failed as a human being.

      • JustJessetr on January 31, 2020, 3:16 pm

        @Talkback.

        BDS brought Palestinian olive oil to our shelves. I brought Palestinian olive oil to our shelves. People agreeing on something is a good thing.

      • Talkback on January 31, 2020, 8:16 pm

        Do you agree that Israel should abide to international law and all releveant Security Council resolutions?

      • echinococcus on February 1, 2020, 12:49 am

        Brought a couple bottles olive oil to his shelves while materially helping the Zionist invaders steal, murder and displace the owners of the land, cut their ancient trees and steal their harvest, too.

      • JustJessetr on February 1, 2020, 8:37 am

        “Brought a couple bottles olive oil to his shelves while materially helping the Zionist invaders steal, murder and displace the owners of the land, cut their ancient trees and steal their harvest, too.”

        And now it’s time to say the same exact thing about BDS.

      • echinococcus on February 1, 2020, 12:38 pm

        The thief proudly insists, after having helped the Zionists steal all of Palestine and its trees: he’s not as bad as you think. He’s working with “liberals” to add insult to injury and expose on his shelves some oil from the Reservations. Next step, he’ll organize folk dances of the exterminated people for the benefit of Jewish tourists from Florida. One day he’ll even have a Zionist Yelizaveta Varrena running for the “Keneseth” claim Native Palestinian ancestry (but on the father’s side only.)

        BDS, by the way, is a peaceful campaign, headed by people physically under Zionist control in occupied Palestine, unable to do more than ask people to exercise the right to spend their own money the way they want. It’s not a resistance movement: it even includes ethnonationalists and tribals who use it to cement pre-67 Zionist occupation.

      • JustJessetr on February 1, 2020, 4:26 pm

        @ecchnocierous,

        Wow! How quickly they turn on their own!!

        BDS at the Park Slope Food Coop, who still want a one-state solution, who still want a Palestine from the river to the sea, but discovered that supporting Palestinian businesses is a good thing (just like I discovered several years ago) are suddenly villainous liberals!!

        I’d say BDS is dead not only at PSFC, but right there in your treacherous heart.

      • Talkback on February 1, 2020, 5:48 pm

        JustJessetr: “BDS at the Park Slope Food Coop, who still want a one-state solution, who still want a Palestine from the river to the sea, …”

        You may believe that repeating the same lie over and over again makes it true. Trust me, it doesn’t, it just makes the lying person look like a pathological liar.

        But I will give you the benefit of the doubt. Explain why BDS wants a Palestinian state from the river to the sea and why you don’t condem Israel for actually implementing exactly that. Whatever goal you have for BDS, why don’t you apply your goal to Israel? Do you need to distract with your accusations against BDS from Israel and the fact that you don’t accuse Israel?

  14. RoHa on January 31, 2020, 1:56 am
  15. brent on February 1, 2020, 4:25 pm

    @ Just. Your efforts to shed your light on the struggle for Palestinian freedom is hindered by Palestinian culture. which has been molded by deliberate disrespect and humiliation. “A land without a people”. No existence, no recognition, no rights. This intentional and calculated disrespect has created a blinding rage in this prideful people. Blind to the politics that are determining their destiny, blocking their objectives.

    Thinking how Arafat refused PR/political advice. It brings to mind what an Israeli soldier said when I gave him a hard time for firing at some very brave youngsters throwing rocks at him. “Look! We cannot afford to give them what is rightfully theirs until they learn HOW to take it.” It’s about more than being right!

    A Palestinian who would say rocks, rockets, kites, BDS or even spilling blood, are not effective resistance so undermine Palestinians could be putting their own well-being at risk. May even be seen as a collaborator. Something obvious to many, including Palestinians.

    Not understanding politics, not understanding Israel “takes” is more accurate that America “gives”, not understanding this is a system of competing interests where anyone who doesn’t play a good hand can lose, is a big liability. If and when cultural pride and defiance, ease its hold and empowers the worldwide support system and builds alliances with non-religious Jews, the righteousness of the Palestinian cause will sweep away the “ism” and religious fervor in favor of peaceful co-existence. This is necessary for Palestinian, Israeli, Jewish and even American well-being.

    There is a right and a logic to armed struggle but experience shows, for several reasons, it has and will not bring freedom.

    America has done tremendous damage to the ME, to Vietnam and many other places. Changing that has more losses than gains. Lots of people have and are trying. We have no right to tell others what to do, especially since we are fundamental to the problem. We can offer that year after year, efforts to lobby politicians for justice for Palestinians run head-on into, “Israel has the right to defend itself”. Many believe equality in a secular state is a winning hand.

    Trump has effectively put one state on the agenda. Will Abbas be up to the challenge? Will he offer a counter vision as Trump has asked of him?

    • Mooser on February 1, 2020, 5:04 pm

      “We have no right to tell others what to do”

      Sure, a couple of billion dollars every year to Israel, to protect it from the consequences of its actions, is not telling Israel what to do.

    • Talkback on February 1, 2020, 6:08 pm

      Bent: “There is a right and a logic to armed struggle but experience shows, for several reasons, it has and will not bring freedom.”

      Indians and South Africans will laugh about your statement as much as I do. And the Vietnamese you just mentioned. And it was the first Intifada that led to Oslo which isn’t much, but more than nothing.
      You should read: “The Only Language They Understand: Forcing Compromise in Israel and Palestine”

      But I do condemn useless armed struggle. Throwing rocks, etc. is pretty stupid and only allows the oppressor to justify its violence and killings. The Palestinians should first and foremost quit the security arrengement with Israel. We are talking about 30.000 trained (and maybe after quitting unemployed) forces in the Westbank alone. Not that they are capable of winning a full scale war against Israel. It’s more about being a pain in the occupier’s a**, making the occupation economically and psychologically expensive to maintain and attacking the occupier’s infrastructure like checkpoints, roadbloaks, the wall, towers, etc. Attacking Israeli civilians has been and still is a mistake from a moral point of view and doesn’t gain support. It’s the occupier who has to resort to violence against civilians to maintain their oppression. And that fact should be exploited.

      • JustJessetr on February 2, 2020, 3:27 pm

        Jump into the armed struggle, Talkback! Go, go, go!! Just make sure that Palestinians are ahead of you, following your orders!

      • Mooser on February 2, 2020, 5:16 pm

        “Just make sure that Palestinians are ahead of you, following your orders!”

        And what makes you so sure ‘the Jews’ will continue to follow Zionist orders?

      • Talkback on February 2, 2020, 6:14 pm

        How do you feel supporting the oppression and disenfranchisement of Nonjews, JustJessetr? Or killing, crippling and torturing Palestinian children? Does that turn you on? What do you like the most, Israel’s illegaly prolonged occupation or Apartheid? Or do you prefer ethnic cleansing? House demolitions? Maybe some collective punishment?

      • echinococcus on February 2, 2020, 6:21 pm

        We can be almost sure that Jesse the Just did not copy, almost verbatim, a well-known taunt by Reinhard Heydrich, from 1934 or 35 if memory serves. He created it from scratch.

    • echinococcus on February 2, 2020, 10:27 pm

      “There is a right and a logic to armed struggle but experience shows, for several reasons, it has and will not bring freedom.”

      Not a huge concern as long as it gets rid of the tyrant or the invader. That is where human beings want to get to. Justice first, well-being can wait has always been the rule. All those who successfully tried the product and ejected the kings or colonialists have been extremely satisfied. We have glowing reviews by the majority, even if the long term always brings its own problems.

      • Talkback on February 3, 2020, 10:53 am

        It’s not about winning a war, it is about making an oppression untenable and showing its true ugly face.

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