Norman Mailer on the Neocons, and Israel Ghettoizing the Palestinians

There’s an attack on Norman in Jewlicious, referring to comments he made about his Jewishness in Nextbook, but the best piece I’ve seen is The American Conservative’s interview of five years back. The folks from TAC asked about Israel and the neocons:

NM: I start with a set of
simple, unsophisticated notions about Israel. It was such a small
country when it began. If the Arab leaders had had any kind of human
goodness in them, they could have said, these people have been through
hell. Let’s treat them with Islamic courtesy, the way we are supposed
to treat strangers. Instead they declared them the enemy. The Israelis
had no choice but to become strong and to get allied with us. In the
course of doing so, some of the best aspects of the Jewish
nature—irony, the love of truth, the love of wisdom and justice,
suffered internal depredations.

Once
it was a matter of saving their country, everything changed. Quantity
changes quality, which may be the best three words Engels ever wrote.
Quantity changes quality. As the Israelis became tougher, so they lost
any hard-earned and elevated objectivity, any high and disinterested
search for social value. The logo became Israel, my Israel. That was
inevitable. It is also tragic, I think. Israel is now one more
powerhouse in the world. But what they’ve lost is special. Now, they
treat the Palestinians as if the Palestinians were ghetto Jews. It is
one of the great ironies. You know, the older you get, the more you
begin to depend upon irony as the last human element you can rely on.
Whatever exists will, sooner or later, be turned inside out.

AC: Do you think there is any way they can escape that dilemma with the Palestinians?

NM:I
don’t see how. Not right now. It may be that what they feel is that if
they don’t gamble now, they will be destroyed later. If a war with Iraq
ends with Americans installed there, Israel could feel more secure for
decades to come. But it could prove a dangerous support. For a good
many powerful Americans, the future question in Empire might become:
How much is our support of Israel still to our advantage and how much
to our disadvantage? The realpolitikers in the American establishment
have to have mixed feelings even now about Israel. The neo-cons may
feel this is our best shot, this is our best opportunity, this is the
moment when we have to take a chance because, if we don’t now, we are
likely to be doomed 10, 20, 30 years down the road.

But,
again, I say, you don’t gamble that way. I’ve always been thoroughly
opposed to gambling with your last thousand bucks. Especially if you
have a family. That is one reason I am a Left-Conservative. That is the
conservative part of me.

[There is an] inner crisis in Israel. I think they are ready
to say: We are no longer humanists. We’ve become the opposite of
ourselves. Still, we protect the country. We dare the unknown. If
Saddam unloads on us? If a large part of Israel is lost to such a war?
Well, sometimes one must undergo serious surgery. I think the Sharons
are ready for that. Of course, the neocons here will not be losing
their own arm or leg or lungs.

That guy was wicked smart…

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