Hezbollah says behind drone brought down by Israel

Hezbollah confirms it sent drone shot down by Israel

Annie Robbins on October 11, 2012 123 Comments

Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah waves to the crowd in Beirut, on Monday, Sept. 17, 2012. (The Daily Star/Hasan Shaaban)

In a shocking radio address in Lebanon, Hezbollah’s Secretary-General Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah just announced the drone brought down by Israel last Saturday indeed originated from Hezbollah. Nasrallah also announced the drone was Irainian made but assembled by members of Hezbollah. The drone flew a mere 30 kilometers from the Dimona reactor.

Israeli military warplanes staged mock raids over southern Lebanon on Sunday and deployed Patriot missiles in Haifa on Monday.

The Daily Star:

Hezbollah Secretary-General Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah confirmed Thursday that the Lebanese resistance group was behind a drone that Israel shot down over the weekend.

– 9 minutes ago
Nasrallah said the drone flew over sensitive locations of Israel and said the Jewish state identified it over the suspected Demona nuclear site.

– 4 minutes ago
He said the UAV was Iranian made but assembled by members of Hezbollah.

– 1 minute ago
Nasrallah said it was the party’s “natural right” to send drones into Israel “whenever we want and this will not be last time.”

– 0 minutes ago
He said since the implementation of UNSCR 1701, there have been 20,864 violations of Lebanese airspace by the Jewish state.

Update:

– 30 minutes ago
Nasrallah said the drone flight over Israel proved Hezbollah was not pre-occupied by other regional developments.

– 7 minutes ago
The Hezbollah chief also denied that members of the resistance group were in Syria fighting alongside forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.

– 3 minutes ago
Nasrallah said one of the aims of the unrest in Syria was to tarnish the name of the resistance.

(Hat tip MW commenters Walid and Taxi)

About Annie Robbins

Annie Robbins is Editor at Large for Mondoweiss, a human rights activist and a ceramic artist. She lives in the SF bay area. Follow her on Twitter @anniefofani

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123 Responses

ColinWright
October 11, 2012, 2:36 pm

Good stuff — if a tad risky for Hezbollah. Poking the prize boar with sticks can be hazardous to your health. This is all the truer if you’re in the paddock with it.

However, if one wants to take chances for the good of the cause, baiting Israel with actions like this is the way to go. If Israel can be provoked into committing more crimes without sufficient and plausible justification, she will eventually destroy herself.

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- Taxi
  October 11, 2012, 3:42 pm
  
  Colin,
  
  The “prize boar” was poked not with a stick, but by another prize boar. That’s why the israelis are freakydeaking out.
  
  Maybe after this clear and most serious signal from the hizb, the israeli people will finally realize the reality they’re in, you know, the one that their government has been hiding from them (and the world) since 2006: they have absolutely no more military deterrence over their northern borders.
  
  And what if Nasrallah starts saying that for each israeli F16 that illegally enters Lebanese airspace (which is a blatant act of war by definition), a hizb drone will be despatched over “occupied Palestine”? I should think the israelis would start thinking twice about their weekly warmongering incursions over Lebanese airspace.
  
  Interesting that they’ve named these hizb drones after the biblical prophet ‘Job’, or ‘Ayyoob’, in Arabic – in homage to both the prophet and some hizb martyr dude who patiently and tirelessly worked on the drone program for years till his demise.
  
  The timing of this fess-up is intriguing too. I wanna scratch on that and see what leaks when I get back to my computer in a few hours.
  
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  - hophmi
    October 11, 2012, 5:14 pm
    
    I think maybe Sheikh Nasrallah wants to get a lot of people killed.
    
    Last I checked, it is not the “right” of his party to send drones into Israel. His party is not a country.
  - DaveS
    October 11, 2012, 5:34 pm
    
    hophmi, does a country, but not a political party, have the right to violate another country’s airspace? Are you suggesting that Israel’s violations of Lebanese airspace are OK, but Hezbollah’s drone is illegal because it is only a party and not the government? Are you suggesting that Israel will kill a lot of people in retaliation for this violation of its airspace, and that it will be Nasrallah’s fault? If Hezbollah, or Lebanon, were to seek revenge for 20,000 violations of its airspace by attacking Israel, would that be justified? And would any Israeli deaths be Israel’s fault?
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 11, 2012, 6:10 pm
    
    “Last I checked, it is not the ‘right’ of his party to send drones into Israel. His party is not a country.”
    
    Since israel has refused to abide by other states’ rights in the region, especially Nasrallah’s own, I don’t see how israel or its cheerleaders have any basis to complain. Goose gander.
  - hophmi
    October 11, 2012, 6:30 pm
    
    Do you buy Hezbollah’s claims? And no, I don’t believe a nonstate actor has any right to act on behalf of a state. I do believe that Israel may consider Hezbollah a threat and react accordingly. The rights of state and nonstate actors are not the same and should not be in a system predicated on state sovereignty.
  - annie
    October 11, 2012, 7:00 pm
    
    The rights of state and nonstate actors are not the same and should not be in a system predicated on state sovereignty.
    
    state or no state, israel has no right to fly over lebanon. it’s in blatant contravention of Resolution 1701 and Lebanon’s sovereignty.
  - MRW
    October 11, 2012, 7:06 pm
    
    @annie,
    
    OT, kinda. Read this. All of it. Interesting geopolitical assessment.
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/11/225863/
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 12:27 am
    
    Hops,
    Nasrallah knows your weakness. You don’t know either your weaknesses or your enemies. How could you? An Apartheid narcissist can’t see past his own perfect nose.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 7:06 am
    
    Since israel has never bothered to respect the sovereignty of any of it’s neighbors, most glaringly Palestine amd Lebanon, it has no place to rely on the principles of state sovereignty. It had waived such appeals by it’s unclean hands.
    
    If this is what it takes to keep the israelis out of Lebanon, more power to them.
  - marc b.
    October 12, 2012, 9:41 am
    
    hopeee, you can stop pretending 1. that you understand international law, 2. that you care about upholding international law, and 3. that israel doesn’t, by its own admission, regularly violate international law because a. there are no consequences for its repeated violation of international law, and b. it seeks to ‘rewrite’ international law by its repeated violation of that law, see, for example, its position on targeted, political assassination, use of human shields by the IDF, etc.
  - American
    October 12, 2012, 10:09 am
    
    “”The rights of state and nonstate actors are not the same and should not be in a system predicated on state sovereignty.””
    
    LOL…who cares. The American revolutionaries were Non State actors…..and they whipped England.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 10:21 am
    
    “state or no state, israel has no right to fly over lebanon. it’s in blatant contravention of Resolution 1701 and Lebanon’s sovereignty.”
    
    AND
    
    “i am an advocate of israel’s enemies having competing or superior technology and weapons, yes.”
    
    OK Annie. So:
    
    1. Do you regard Hezbollah’s flying a drone over Israel as a violation of Israeli sovereignty and of UNSC 1701?
    
    2. Do you accept that Hezbollah is required to disarm under 1701, and is thus in blatant violation of the resolution by not only not disarming, but by, according to UN, rearming?
    
    3. Do you accept that though Hezbollah is part of Lebanon’s government, it is not the same thing as the government itself?
  - annie
    October 12, 2012, 10:46 am
    
    1.yes, and since israel has flagrantly violated that resolution over 20,000 times i could sort of care less.
    
    2. that was addressed downthread: http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/hezbollah-confirms-it-sent-drone-shot-down-by-israel.html/comment-page-1#comment-507231
    
    3. do i accept? what kind of framing is that? if you’re going to ask me stupid questions the least you could do is address me respectfully.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 10:46 am
    
    LMAO. Hoppy, if Hezbollah is a non-state actor, then it’s actions cannot be in violation of UNSC 1701, because those resolutions are only binding on states.
    
    Further, it is quite amusing that a cheerleader of the state which is in its 45th year of violating UNSC 242 by failing to get its forces and people back behind the green line has the chutzpah to complain about anyone else’s supposed violations of a UN resolution. maybe we will worry about Hezbollah take on 1701 forty-five years after it violated it; in 2051.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 11:13 am
    
    “1.yes, and since israel has flagrantly violated that resolution over 20,000 times i could sort of care less.”
    
    No, there’s no independent evidence of that claim. That is HEZBOLLAH’S claim, not anyone else’s. In fact, the UN has criticized Hezbollah for not meeting its obligations, and Hezbollah has repeated worked to undermine the ceasefire by rearming. It’s a mystery to me why you’re so pro-Hezbollah. These are religious fanatics who destabilize Lebanon by launching their own private wars, by allowing the Syrians to basically occupy the country, and by murdering opposition politicians and then impeding the work of the UN Tribunal.
    
    Talknic’s view on 1701 is complete BS. The Resolution is very clear:
    
    ““3. Emphasizes the importance of the extension of the control of the Government of Lebanon over all Lebanese territory in accordance with the provisions of resolution 1559 (2004) and resolution 1680 (2006), and of the relevant provisions of the Taif Accords, for it to exercise its full sovereignty, so that there will be no weapons without the consent of the Government of Lebanon and no authority other than that of the Government of Lebanon;”
    
    What, pray tell, do you think exercising full sovereignty so that there will be no weapons without the consent of the Government of Lebanon means? It means Hezbollah should not be acting on its own. That’s the plain English.
    
    If you want to adopt talknic’s POV, which is more or less what you might argue if you were Hezbollah’s lawyer, then you adopt the view that Hezbollah is “Lebanon’s official resistance movement” and that thus, an attack on Israel by Hezbollah is the same thing as an attack on Israel by Lebanon. I certainly do not hold that view.
    
    ” do i accept? what kind of framing is that? if you’re going to ask me stupid questions the least you could do is address me respectfully.”
    
    LOL. It’s a simple question. I’m trying to determine your POV, so I’m asking if you accept the principles I’ve laid out. There’s nothing disrespectful about that. It’s basic enough.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 11:15 am
    
    “then it’s actions cannot be in violation of UNSC 1701, because those resolutions are only binding on states”
    
    Want to substantiate that? Do you then accept the view that a non-state actor can never violate international law because it’s not a state?
    
    “Further, it is quite amusing that a cheerleader of the state which is in its 45th year of violating UNSC 242 by failing to get its forces and people back behind the green line has the chutzpah to complain about anyone else’s supposed violations of a UN resolution. maybe we will worry about Hezbollah take on 1701 forty-five years after it violated it; in 2051.”
    
    Hey, chief, tell it to the UN. They’re the ones criticizing Hezbollah for re-arming. Why are you so pro-Hezbollah? Don’t you care about the Lebanese?
  - annie
    October 12, 2012, 11:20 am
    
    there’s no independent evidence of that claim. That is HEZBOLLAH’S claim, not anyone else’s.
    
    there’s tons of evidence israel regularly violates lebanon’s airspace. it happens all the time hophmi. it’s reported in the news too. i’ve reported it here. israel’s drones fly over lebanon all the time and sometimes it’s warplanes. not unusual.
    
    What, pray tell, do you think exercising full sovereignty so that there will be no weapons without the consent of the Government of Lebanon means?
    
    i think it probably means hezbollah probably operates with the consent of the government of lebanon. and yes i do believe that hezbollah is Lebanon’s official resistance movement. i would wager the vast majority of lebanese would agree with me.
    
    if the UN prevented the iof from acquiring weapons do you think the people would prepare for a sitting duck position wrt future attacks?
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 11:29 am
    
    “there’s tons of evidence israel regularly violates lebanon’s airspace. it happens all the time hophmi. it’s reported in the news too. i’ve reported it here. israel’s drones fly over lebanon all the time and sometimes it’s warplanes. not unusual.”
    
    You said 20K times. That’s Hezbollah’s number. Cite an independent source that backs up that claim.
    
    “i think it probably means hezbollah probably operates with the consent of the government of lebanon.”
    
    Then either you’re incorrect, or you accept the premise that every rocket Hezbollah fires is fired by Lebanon.
    
    “i would wager the vast majority of lebanese would agree with me.”
    
    Then the vast majority of Lebanese have decided to appoint a totalitarian religious fanatic movement as their military representatives, and they will suffer the consequences.
    
    I don’t agree with you. I think that while the Lebanese may look at Hezbollah as accomplished compared to the weakness of the rest of the their government leaders, most detest their religious fanaticism and their embrace of the Syrians and Iranians. Hezbollah got to where it was by murdering its political opponents and using the Syrians to bully their way in. You OK with that?
  - annie
    October 12, 2012, 11:41 am
    
    Why are you so pro-Hezbollah? Don’t you care about the Lebanese?
    
    Why are you so pro-Israel? Don’t you care about the jews?
  - marc b.
    October 12, 2012, 11:53 am
    
    good luck with cement head, annie, as he argues over numbers (“no it’s not 20,0000 violations, only 5,000.”) UNIFIL regularly observes israeli violations of lebanese air space, documents such violations, and reports such violations to israel and the UN. for him to be whining about numbers (btw i haven’t seen any documentation refuting hizbollah’s claims, just buckets of accountant’s tears) is more misdirection and mendacity.
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 11:53 am
    
    Hops,
    I’ve been in south Lebanon for just about a year now and I hear israeli jets flying overhead at least once a week – this has been going on ALL the time I’ve been here. It’s really the norm.
    
    Sure there are ‘other’ verifications. Why don’t you unlazy yourself and shmoogle the google for an updated education. Or you prefer to live in your happy (stolen) bubble?
    
    Get with the program man: israel DOES NOT HAVE IT’S BOOT ON THE NECK OF ITS NORTHERN NEIGHBOR – no matter how hard the israeli government denies this fact. Well I suppose it HAS TO deny it, otherwise panic my spread, some israelis might flee and the rest would start sleeping with boots on.
    
    You sleeping with your boots on? You should… just in case.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 12:00 pm
    
    “Want to substantiate that?”
    
    Sure. Look at the treaty. UNSC resolutions are binding solely because the parties to the treaty agreed to be bound by them. Only states are parties to the treaties.
    
    “Do you then accept the view that a non-state actor can never violate international law because it’s not a state?”
    
    No. Some international law is binding on non-state actors. UNSC resolutions aren’t among them. (although they often reference int’l law which is.)
    
    “Hey, chief, tell it to the UN. They’re the ones criticizing Hezbollah for re-arming.”
    
    Good for them. Hopefully the US one day won’t have a zionist lap dog administration, so we can get the UN interested in enforcing the rights of the Palestinians, too.
    
    “Why are you so pro-Hezbollah? Don’t you care about the Lebanese?”
    
    Who says I am pro-Hezbollah? I’m against you hypocrit zionist m-fers who cry UN resolutions every time it suits your fancy and then you tighten your choke hold on the Palestinian people, in direct contravention to UN resolutions.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 12:01 pm
    
    “Why are you so pro-Israel? Don’t you care about the jews?”
    
    Answer my question first. Hezbollah holds the Lebanese hostage and is pro-Syrian. Why do you support that?
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 1:01 pm
    
    Hopy,
    Why don’t you link us to all them Lebanese hostages held by the Lebanese resistance? I sure would love to daringly rescue one or two while I’m in the neighborhood.
    
    Hey by the way, post Ayoub drone, today especially, on TV, one Lebanese after another was being interviewed and they were all empowered, bright-eyed and grinning like cheshire cats.
    
    Talk about collective high moral over here – you can see and feel it EVERYWHERE you go. Very buzzy this little Lebanon is.
  - marc b.
    October 12, 2012, 1:25 pm
    
    every report to the UN Security Council from UNIFIL that I could find makes repeated use of the terminology of “[a]lmost daily intrusions into Lebanese airspace by Israel Defense Forces”. see for example recent June 28, 2012 report. in addition to complaints filed by UNIFIL, lebanon has forwarded complaints to the UN regarding these repeated violations of lebanese air space. for example, on november 1, 2007, the lebanese government reported 290 violations of lebanese air space by the IAF, and 52 ground incursions during the same four month period prior to the report.
  - ColinWright
    October 12, 2012, 10:17 pm
    
    re Hophmi.
    
    The guy who’s state has performed 20,000 (that’s the number I recall, but it could be 2000, and the point would be the same) objects to one drone overflight.
    
    ‘They don’t have the right,’ he bleats. Another 5 chutzbah points for you, Hophmi. Doesn’t that make 10 for the day?
Walid
October 11, 2012, 2:42 pm

The Lebanese will wake up to very heavy flack from the pro-US and anti-Iran/Syria Lebanese March 14th political coalition that has been incessantly asking for Hizbullah to disarm and has been holding it responsible for having instigated the 2006 devasting war on Lebanon with the abductions. “March 14th” will be saying that this admission of the drone incursion is one more provocation by Hizbullah that could set off another war and all the more reason whey Hizbullah should disarm.

The opposing March 8 political faction, that includes the Hizbullah political wing, and that represents most Lebanese, will be responding that this drone innovation proves again that Hizbullah’s arms is what’s keeping Israel from invading Lebanon and all the more reason why Hizbullah should not disarm until Israel gives up its warmongering ways.

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- Walid
  October 13, 2012, 1:37 pm
  
  About the waking up part, from YNet reporting what’s in the Nahar:
  
  “Hariri: Lebanon is not an unmanned drone
  
  Former Lebanese PM blasts Hezbollah for dispatching UAV to Israel, dragging Lebanon into risky exploits
  
  Elior Levy Published: 10.13.12, 13:09 / Israel News
  
  Former Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri said that “Lebanon is not an unmanned drone,” referring to the aerial vehicle allegedly dispatched by Hezbollah to Israel last week.
  
  “During this very critical moment in the region, all Lebanese who reject actions that threaten Lebanon’s national interest… need to shoulder the responsibility so that everyone understands once and for all that Lebanon is not an unmanned drone,” Hariri told the An-Nahar newspaper.
  
  Hariri lauded the stance taken by Lebanese President Michel Suleiman regarding the drone mission, noting that the leader’s position “expressed deep concerns over the uncalculated risks which Hezbollah wants to drag Lebanon into.”
  
  http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4291540,00.html
  
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Elizabeth Block
October 11, 2012, 3:04 pm

Well, well, well. Remember Hilaire Belloc’s little rhyme:
Whatever happens, we have got
The Maxim gun, and they have not.
It was only a matter of time before “they” got the Maxim gun [the first machine gun] – and drones.

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yourstruly
October 11, 2012, 3:07 pm

If he truly was interested in a just & peaceful mideast, President Obama would call upon both Lebanon and Israel to agree to end all aerial incursions upon each other, at the same time threatening to shoot down any aircraft in violation of said agreement. This would demonstrate genuine evenhandedness, a heretofore missing element in U.S. mideast policy. From that point the road to a just and peacefull settlement of the P/I conflict would soon be apparent.

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- elephantine
  October 11, 2012, 4:46 pm
  
  The US would have to stop it’s own aerial incursions… Not likely to happen anytime soon. It was only a matter of time before others would decide to do the same. Neither the US or Israel is in any position to say much about it considering they’re both serial offenders. Well, now they have company.
  
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ToivoS
October 11, 2012, 3:30 pm

Well MarkfromIreland’s analysis at FDG was right on. Seemed to be the only one who got that story right even in spite of the fact that Israel muddied the waters by claiming it was Hezbollah all along.

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Walid
October 11, 2012, 3:31 pm

Hizbullah’s “Ayoub” drone is not a first for Lebanon. The US that had already helped Lebanon after the 2006 war by providing it with hundreds of Dodge Chargers for the police forces and hundreds of Humvees to replace the army’s stock of WW II vintage Jeeps, also provided the army with 12 drones, but not the type that are used over Afghanistan and Pakistan but the RQ-11 Raven that has a wingspan of about 36 inches, weighs 4.2 lbs and can stay up in the air for about 90 minutes with a range of about 10 miles. It carries a camera and is hand-launched like a paper kite. It was given to the army to help with the patrolling of the border as it serves for day or night aerial intelligence, surveillance, target acquisition, and reconnaissance. Lebanon now has 2 types of drones, the Raven and the Ayoub.

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pabelmont
October 11, 2012, 4:00 pm

Ahem. This drone was not armed. Maybe had no cameras either. On the other hand it got well into Israel which, unlike Iran, didn’t force its drone-invader to land intact.

I wish I believed that the Iranian gov’t and Hezb were likely to start making a “joyful noise unto the Lord” about Palestine. For the moment it’s more likely only to play the tune, “Don’t act bad to me.”

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- ColinWright
  October 11, 2012, 5:11 pm
  
  pabelmont says: “I wish I believed that the Iranian gov’t and Hezb were likely to start making a “joyful noise unto the Lord” about Palestine. For the moment it’s more likely only to play the tune, “Don’t act bad to me.” “
  
  Yeah. I think Hezbollah would be more than happy to get Israel to stay on its side of the line and Hezbollah will stay on their side.
  
  I don’t blame them for this. However, neither Hezbollah nor Iran are going to immolate themselves for the sake of the Palestinians — whatever Israel’s demented fantasies.
  
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  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 12:21 am
    
    You underestimate the moslem’s attachment to occupied Jesuralem. You also forget that both Iran and the hiz, by their own admission, are supplying Gaza with defensive weapons whenever they can.
    
    There is nothing more powerfully symbolic for Arabs and moslems than the liberation of Jerusalem and the holy lands.
    
    Iran and Lebanon are blatant supporters of Palestinian resistance. No ifs and buts about it.
  - ColinWright
    October 12, 2012, 1:59 am
    
    Taxi said: “Iran and Lebanon are blatant supporters of Palestinian resistance. No ifs and buts about it.”
    
    Sure, but let’s review. I said:
    
    ‘However, neither Hezbollah nor Iran are going to immolate themselves for the sake of the Palestinians — whatever Israel’s demented fantasies.’
    
    Lot’s of people support Palestinian resistance. The list of those prepared to commit suicide on their behalf is considerably shorter.
  - Walid
    October 12, 2012, 2:14 am
    
    “However, neither Hezbollah nor Iran are going to immolate themselves for the sake of the Palestinians — whatever Israel’s demented fantasies.” (Colin)
    
    Nasrallah has repeated it a few times that Hizbullah’s vocation is neither to liberate Palestine nor to attack or invade Israel for the Palestinians’ sake. It’s there to protect Lebanon against Israeli invasions and nothing more.
    
    This year, Nasrallah added a new twist when he declared that in the event of a new war with Israel, the next big battle will not be fought inside Lebanon’s borders as usual, but in Tel Aviv. He again repeated it last month that in the next war to be waged on Lebanon by Israel, Hizbullah’s fighters would be crossing the border and entering Israel. Again, this has nothing to do with liberating Palestine but with protecting Lebanon. He also said that he’d abide with whatever agreement the Palestinians would sign with the Israelis.
- Inanna
  October 13, 2012, 8:01 pm
  
  This drone was not armed. Maybe had no cameras either.
  
  Actually, there were cameras on board and after Nasrallah’s speech, al-Manar tv aired what it claimed was footage from the flight.
  
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Taxi
October 11, 2012, 4:04 pm

Aparently the hizb drone flew over ‘occupied Palestine’ for THREE HOURS undetected, hizb claim – not 30 mins like israel claimed. A large drone it was too, flying empty, on a test drive, but capable of carrying mega amounts of explosives and capable of precision targeting.

This is a huge story in this part of the world. No one has ever managed such a feat: flying undetected over israel, for soooo long. Oh man israel’s defense strategies are falling apart, iron dome shmirondome! They’re gonna have to do a huge big re-configuration now and no one in the defense business in israel is sleeping good for it. Nasrallah said it’s not the first drone, nor will it be the last.

You think the zios might have the concept of peace scribbled on their defense re-configuration plan?

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- annie
  October 11, 2012, 4:08 pm
  
  You think the zios might have the concept of peace scribbled on their defense re-configuration plan?
  
  i think it would be the smart thing to do, that’s for sure.
  
  the hizb drone flew over ‘occupied Palestine’ for THREE HOURS undetected, hizb claim – not 30 mins like israel claimed.
  
  sweeeet
  
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  - Walid
    October 11, 2012, 5:11 pm
    
    Annie, the 3 hours is more likely to be of total travel time rather than the time spent in Israeli airpace. Most of that time span was over the sea traveling south to reach Gaza’s shores. A country’s legal boundary stretches about 70 miles from the sea. 70 miles out into the Med from Gaza is not Israel’s boundary, so the last stretch of those 70 miles of Med were not really Israel’s although it is policing them. The actual time over Israel proper is about 22 minutes.
  - hophmi
    October 11, 2012, 5:15 pm
    
    “the hizb drone flew over ‘occupied Palestine’ for THREE HOURS undetected, hizb claim – not 30 mins like israel claimed.
    
    sweeeet”
    
    So, Annie Robbins – pro-Hizballah drones?
  - annie
    October 11, 2012, 8:20 pm
    
    hophmi, i am an advocate of israel’s enemies having viable competing or superior technology and weaponry, yes.
    
    israel is a dangerous rouge expanding actor on the world stage, cannot be trusted and needs to be subdued, actions curtailed. hopefully, merely the threat of competing force and intel can be a enough of a deterrent.
    
    i would support lebanon/hezbollah taking down an israeli drone or an american drone over their country.
  - mondonut
    October 11, 2012, 9:23 pm
    
    Annie Robbins says: hophmi, i am an advocate of israel’s enemies having viable competing or superior technology and weaponry, yes.
    =====================================
    Wow. It’s not every day that you see someone advocate that a non-state Iranian proxy, dedicated to eliminating Israel, should have firepower SUPERIOR to Israel.
  - CloakAndDagger
    October 12, 2012, 12:12 am
    
    @ mondonut
    
    Wow. It’s not every day that you see someone advocate that a non-state Iranian proxy, dedicated to eliminating Israel, should have firepower SUPERIOR to Israel.
    
    You should go out more often. This view is widely shared if sparsely reported.
    
    Hizb. is dedicated to the defense of Lebanon from Israeli incursions – not the elimination of Israel. Not that I am against the elimination of Israel (not its people – just the entity).
  - annie
    October 12, 2012, 12:12 am
    
    i do not view hezbollah as a non state iranian proxy. hezbollah is very much a part of lebanon’s government and the bulwark of lebanon’s defense against a violent encroaching neighbor. the myth of invincibility is part of israel’s defense strategy but it is only that, a myth. everyone knows a good defense deters invasion. so what could deter more israeli violence? sophisticated intel and weaponry can prevent wars. israelis are used to plummeting their adversaries with american backing. i am against this and advocate holding them accountable..
    
    hezbollah is not dedicated to eliminating israel. the regime perhaps, and in that regard i agree it should be quite temporary. i do not advocate ‘eliminating’ israel. after all, we didn’t even eliminate germany after the ww2 (albeit we carpet bombed them, i don’t advocate that either).
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 12:35 am
    
    Cloaky,
    Because of israeli’s ongoing criminal acts, the hizb believes that Lebanon will ALWAYS be under threat so long as israel exists – and so long as israel exists, Lebanon will always need a strong resistance army.
    
    And they’re right about that.
    
    You’d better believe they want the ‘zionist entity’ dismantled. It’s the ultimate assurance that Lebanon is safe. They’ve declared this often enough.
  - ColinWright
    October 12, 2012, 2:02 am
    
    mondonut says: “Wow. It’s not every day that you see someone advocate that a non-state Iranian proxy, dedicated to eliminating Israel, should have firepower SUPERIOR to Israel.”
    
    This is your lucky day, then. TWO people are advocating it. I’m all for it too.
  - Bing Bong
    October 12, 2012, 6:01 am
    
    When did they say they do not want Israel eliminated?
  - October 12, 2012, 8:10 am
    
    Mondonut.
    
    “Wow. It’s not every day that you see someone advocate that a non-state Iranian proxy, dedicated to eliminating Israel, should have firepower SUPERIOR to Israel.”
    
    You need to get out of your bubble more often.
  - annie
    October 12, 2012, 10:07 am
    
    bing bong, i will answer you after you first link to an msm source (quoting nasrallah) confirming nuts “dedicated to eliminating Israel” allegation.
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 10:21 am
    
    Hizbollah is against zionism, not judaism. Practicing moslems revere all the jewish prophets of old. But they utterly reject and despise zionism.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 10:26 am
    
    “hophmi, i am an advocate of israel’s enemies having viable competing or superior technology and weaponry, yes.”
    
    OK, so you do not advocate peace, but simply fairer war. Gotcha. You’re a real woman of the left, Annie.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 10:53 am
    
    “hophmi, i am an advocate of israel’s enemies having viable competing or superior technology and weaponry, yes.”
    
    OK, so you do not advocate peace, but simply fairer war. Gotcha.
    
    How is wishing for those preyed upon by the israeli terror forces to have the power to deter future agression, advocating war??? Or are you of the position that it is better if Lebanese civilians get murdered by israelis rather than having the israelis’ killing hand stayed with the possibility that Lebanon would fight back??
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 11:24 am
    
    “How is wishing for those preyed upon by the israeli terror forces to have the power to deter future agression, advocating war??? ”
    
    So you’re an advocate of MAD now?
    
    It’s a very silly position. Hezbollah is never going to compete with Israel for military superiority. Israel pulls a lot of punches with Hezbollah; they do not want to reduce all of Lebanon to rubble. But if you think it would be great if Hezbollah simply had better weapons, all you’re doing is ensuring a greater Israeli response to repeated terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians, and thus, more dead Israelis and more dead Lebanese.
    
    “Or are you of the position that it is better if Lebanese civilians get murdered by israelis rather than having the israelis’ killing hand stayed with the possibility that Lebanon would fight back??”
    
    Do you agree with the UN Resolution or not? It requires the Lebanese government to exercise sovereignty over its territory and disarm Hezbollah. Israel has no beef with the Lebanese. It’s the cancerous religious fanatic movement in the South, a movement that has killed American marines, violated Israeli sovereignty by kidnapping its soldiers, terrorized Israeli civilians by indiscriminately firing rockets into Israel, and undermined Lebanese sovereignty not only by acting as an independent military entity, but by helping the Syrians hold the Lebanese hostage.
  - annie
    October 12, 2012, 11:38 am
    
    It requires the Lebanese government to exercise sovereignty over its territory
    
    and how were they supposed to do that on sunday with israel buzzing warplanes everywhere? the lebanese has no vehicle to exercise sovereignty over their territory wrt israeli incursions.
    
    So you’re an advocate of MAD now?
    
    as opposed to the assured destruction for one side? you evaded answering the question: ““How is wishing for those preyed upon by the israeli terror forces to have the power to deter future agression, advocating war??? ”
    
    Israel has no beef with the Lebanese.
    
    ha.ha.ha.ha.ha. and america had no beef with iraqis nor do we have any beef with iranians. israel wants one thing, to expand. that is abundantly clear. so please spare us your blatherings about beef. clearly israel would be quite satisfied if the land was emptied out for their future colonization, no beef whatsoever the lebanese.
  - talknic
    October 12, 2012, 11:49 am
    
    hophmi October 12, 2012 at 10:26 am = Hopmi jumps to ridiculous conclusions in true Zionutter style
    
    Israel isn’t likely to be so keen to attack equally armed neighbours.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 12:00 pm
    
    “and how were they supposed to do that on sunday with israel buzzing warplanes everywhere? the lebanese has no vehicle to exercise sovereignty over their territory wrt israeli incursions.”
    
    Oh please. One has nothing to do with the other. We all know why Lebanon won’t exercise sovereignty. They don’t want to do the hard work of disarming Hezbollah and absorbing them into their army. A basic requirement of a functioning state is to have a monopoly on the use of force. Let’s be honest here. If the Lebanese Army tried to incorporate Hezbollah, there would be a bloody civil war.
    
    “as opposed to the assured destruction for one side? you evaded answering the question: ““How is wishing for those preyed upon by the israeli terror forces to have the power to deter future agression, advocating war??? ””
    
    There’s been no preying since 2000, when Israel withdrew. The 2006 War happened because Hezbollah violated Israeli sovereignty by kidnapping Israeli soldiers and then shelled Israel’s north, deliberately targeting civilians and displacing a million people. An armed Hezbollah means more war, not less.
    
    ” israel wants one thing, to expand.”
    
    Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000. Withdrew. They’ve made no effort to take any territory in Lebanon since then. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch. So stop your aberrant nonsense about Israel wanting to expand.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 12:03 pm
    
    “Israel isn’t likely to be so keen to attack equally armed neighbours.”
    
    What they’re likely to do, eventually, is to treat Hezbollah as closer to an equal, and use their entire arsenal instead of pulling punches. Maybe, instead of limiting a retaliation to South Lebanon, they’ll attack the entire country, since, according to you, Hezbollah is Lebanon and Lebanon is Hezbollah.
    
    Is that what you want?
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 12:14 pm
    
    “When did they say they do not want Israel eliminated?”
    
    Who cares if they do or not? I want israel eliminated. So what?
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 12:16 pm
    
    “What they’re likely to do, eventually, is to treat Hezbollah as closer to an equal, and use their entire arsenal instead of pulling punches. ”
    
    Shrug. And then Hezbollah will use their entire arsenal and there would be lots of dead israelis. Do you think the isreaelis want that?
  - seanmcbride
    October 12, 2012, 12:18 pm
    
    Hophmi wrote:
    
    Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000. Withdrew. They’ve made no effort to take any territory in Lebanon since then. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch. So stop your aberrant nonsense about Israel wanting to expand.
    
    The Israeli government under Likud is formally and officially committed to building Eretz Yisrael, which is a quintessential expansionist (and racist) project.
    
    Israel for decades has continued to expand JEWISH-ONLY settlements under both right-wing and “left-wing” regimes — a policy that is in radical conflict with American and modern Western democratic values.
    
    Israel’s expansionist and racist policies, which are rooted in a fundamentalist and ethnocentric biblical ideology, are creating enormous problems for Americans. We are getting close to the point where Americans will be highly motivated to ditch Israel and its self-created mess.
    
    No doubt this why Henry Kissinger reportedly predicted that Israel may soon no longer exist.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 12:23 pm
    
    “So you’re an advocate of MAD now?”
    
    If it keeps the mad dogs of the israeli terror forces at bay, sure.
    
    “Hezbollah is never going to compete with Israel for military superiority.”
    
    It doesn’t need to. All it need do is be able to inflict enough casualties to keep the israeli dog at heel.
    
    “Do you agree with the UN Resolution or not?”
    
    I believe that all parties should comply with all UN resolutions, and since the list of them that the israelis are violating would choke a horse, I’d say that before it can expect anyone else to attend the mote in their eye, the israelis should attend the beam in its own.
    
    “Israel has no beef with the Lebanese.”
    
    Sure. That explains why it serially raped southern Lebanon for two decades.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 12:50 pm
    
    “The Israeli government under Likud is formally and officially committed to building Eretz Yisrael, which is a quintessential expansionist (and racist) project.”
    
    Do you deny that the Israelis withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 or don’t you?
    
    “Israel for decades has continued to expand JEWISH-ONLY settlements under both right-wing and “left-wing” regimes.”
    
    In the last two decades, most “expansion” has, in reality, consisted of population growth in existing settlements. If Israel were expansionist, they’d simply have annexed the land a long, long time ago. There is little reason to believe anyone would have stood in their way. There have been very few new settlements created in recent memory.
    
    “Israel’s expansionist and racist policies . . . are creating enormous problems for Americans. ”
    
    What problems would those be, exactly? And more importantly, what do you think would change if the Americans decided to be pro-Arab instead?
    
    Do you support the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt? The Syrian dictatorship? These aren’t problems of Israel’s making.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 12:53 pm
    
    “Shrug. And then Hezbollah will use their entire arsenal and there would be lots of dead israelis. Do you think the isreaelis want that?”
    
    Hezbollah’s arsenal will never compete with Israel’s. Under what scenario do you see that happening? I’m curious to know. Israel is an American ally. Any weapon it wants, it gets or makes itself. What access would Hezbollah have that is in any way equivalent?
    
    There will never be parity. And there is no requirement that there be parity. If Hezbollah launches a war, it launches a war. Israel is not required to pull its punches just because the sides are uneven.
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 1:35 pm
    
    Hopty,
    
    Israel didn’t “withdraw” from Lebanon in 2000, they were kicked out and ran away shaking under moonlight. Why did they haul ass so suddenly? Cuz they couldn’t take the superior Lebanese guerrilla fighters no more – they finally realized that it was a losing battle, that they could not possibly stay there to steal the delightful waters of the Litani river no more. You can go ahead and re-write zionist history all you like, but you really gotta stop re-writing Lebanon’s heroic battles against israel – it just doesn’t work that way, you know, in the world outside your bubble.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 1:40 pm
    
    “Hezbollah’s arsenal will never compete with Israel’s.”
    
    It doesn’t need to compete. It just needs to be enough that the war mongers in the israeli government realize that they will lose signficant numbers of people to the point where whatever passes for sanity in that government would steer the ship away from using high explosives in lieu of diplomacy.
    
    “Israel is not required to pull its punches”
    
    Nor is anyone else.
  - seanmcbride
    October 12, 2012, 1:53 pm
    
    hophmi,
    
    Jewish-only settlements under any circumstances are by any reasonable definition racist and anti-democratic by American and modern Western democratic standards. Stop trying to pretend that you are a “liberal” — you are on the same page ideologically with classical European fascist movements. These settlements are the product of a pure blood and soil mentality.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 2:33 pm
    
    “Jewish-only settlements under any circumstances are by any reasonable definition racist and anti-democratic by American and modern Western democratic standards. ”
    
    That’s in the West Bank. I’m talking within the Green Line.
    
    Stop pretending that these settlements are manifestations of fascism. If you’re going to use that standard, use it evenly. Palestinians refuse to sell land to Jews. Therefore, by your standard, Palestinian areas are also manifestations of fascism, because they are based on poor blood.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 2:34 pm
    
    “Israel didn’t “withdraw” from Lebanon in 2000, they were kicked out and ran away shaking under moonlight.
    
    Whatever you need to tell yourself.
    
    ” Cuz they couldn’t take the superior Lebanese guerrilla fighters no more – they finally realized that it was a losing battle, that they could not possibly stay there to steal the delightful waters of the Litani river no more. ”
    
    They decided it wasn’t worth it. That’s true. That doesn’t change the fact that they withdrew.
  - Walid
    October 12, 2012, 2:35 pm
    
    “Hezbollah’s arsenal will never compete with Israel’s.”(hophmi)
    
    It won’t be a match between arsenals as it won’t be a match between armies; Hizbullah is a guerilla and fights like one and an army cannot take on a guerilla. Contrary to Israeli servicemen, Hizbullah fighters are not afraid to die, and that gives them an edge as in 2006. You must know that the next big battle will be fought in Tel Aviv.
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 2:36 pm
    
    “It doesn’t need to compete. It just needs to be enough that the war mongers in the israeli government realize that they will lose signficant numbers of people to the point where whatever passes for sanity in that government would steer the ship away from using high explosives in lieu of diplomacy.”
    
    Well, Israel doesn’t think that way, as you and other frequently point out. The Israeli way is the Colin Powell way; when faced with a threat, use overwhelmingly force to make sure the threat goes away.
    
    I generally agree that the loss of many civilian lives should be a general deterrent, but then again, it ought to be for Hezbollah as well.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 3:13 pm
    
    “you’re going to use that standard, use it evenly. Palestinians refuse to sell land to Jews. Therefore, by your standard, Palestinian areas are also manifestations of fascism”
    
    Still can’t tell the difference between the fire and the fire brigade, I see…
  - hophmi
    October 12, 2012, 3:13 pm
    
    “It won’t be a match between arsenals as it won’t be a match between armies; Hizbullah is a guerilla and fights like one and an army cannot take on a guerilla.”
    
    You might want to check that out with Hamas.
    
    An army can take on a guerrilla force. It just involves the will to drop a lot of bombs and cause a lot of death and destruction, which is how the US handled things in Fallujah, Hafez al-Assad handled things in Hama, King Hussein handled things with Black September, and eventually, how Israel will be forced to handle things if they are pushed to that point.
    
    I hope Hezbollah does not get a lot of people killed. Because believe me, that is what will happen, and no one will restrain Israel if Israeli civilians die in any kind of numbers. Remember 2002? Nobody restrained Ariel Sharon after dozens of Israelis were murdered in suicide attacks. Don’t hear much about Jenin anymore. Remember it next time you tell me about how Israel can’t handle a guerrilla force made up of people willing to die for their cause.
  - Woody Tanaka
    October 12, 2012, 3:23 pm
    
    “Well, Israel doesn’t think that way, as you and other frequently point out. The Israeli way is the Colin Powell way; when faced with a threat, use overwhelmingly force to make sure the threat goes away. ”
    
    Powell’s talking about tactics. I’m talking about strategy. Zionists can never keep these straight.
    
    “I generally agree that the loss of many civilian lives should be a general deterrent, but then again, it ought to be for Hezbollah as well.”
    
    You’re mistaking deterrence and fear. Hezbollah may fear israel, but it’s fear will not deter it, because being detered does not offer Hezbollah a cesession of israeli attacks, it merely changes the timing and type of them.
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 5:18 pm
    
    hopsicle,
    
    Nice of you to worry about the loss of enemy civilian lives, but if I were you I’d just as soon worry about the deaths of your own civilians. Cuz that’s what’s gonna happen if you fuck around with your northern neighbors from here on. And they ain’t signed no fake peace treaty with you or America either, so as far as they’re concerned, their hands are free and all options are “on the table”.
  - Donald
    October 12, 2012, 5:58 pm
    
    “You might want to check that out with Hamas.”
    
    It’s my non-expert impression that Hezbollah fighters are much better trained than Hamas. Otherwise Hamas would have killed quite a few IDF fighters in the Gaza slaughter.
    
    Though it’s probably a good thing they didn’t, as Israel would have probably responded with a massive display of indiscriminate firepower.
  - Rusty Pipes
    October 12, 2012, 9:18 pm
    
    Seriously?
    
    Maybe, instead of limiting a retaliation to South Lebanon, they’ll attack the entire country, since, according to you, Hezbollah is Lebanon and Lebanon is Hezbollah.
    
    Since Israel already claimed in 2006 that it was fighting Hezbollah, but destroyed buildings and infrastructure in the whole country (like Christian sections of Beirut, milk plants, cardboard factories, oil refineries along the northern coast, highways in northern Lebanon), the world will perceive its belligerent language about Hezbollah as just another excuse to try to destroy Lebanon again.
  - Walid
    October 13, 2012, 2:04 am
    
    “An army can take on a guerrilla force. It just involves the will to drop a lot of bombs and cause a lot of death and destruction, which is how the US handled things in Fallujah, Hafez al-Assad handled things in Hama, King Hussein handled things with Black September, and eventually, how Israel will be forced to handle things if they are pushed to that point. ”
    
    We saw how with Cast Lead Israel joined the list of massacres. Fallujah, Hama, Black September, Cast Lead; shame on you, Hophmi.
  - Sumud
    October 13, 2012, 2:25 am
    
    Though it’s probably a good thing they didn’t, as Israel would have probably responded with a massive display of indiscriminate firepower.
    
    I think you’ll find that’s what they did anyway Donald! Of course it could have been worse, I believe they set a body count and kept killing until they’d reached their target.
  - Bing Bong
    October 13, 2012, 7:59 am
    
    “bing bong, i will answer you after you first link to an msm source (quoting nasrallah) confirming nuts “dedicated to eliminating Israel” allegation.”
    
    That’s ok, I’ll continue to believe that they, like you and whoever else said so here that they want Israel eliminated. If you are for eliminating Israel and they are not, I guess that makes Hezbollah a neutral organisation, doing a difficult job the best they can…high five guys!
  - Donald
    October 13, 2012, 2:57 pm
    
    “I think you’ll find that’s what they did anyway Donald! Of course it could have been worse, I believe they set a body count and kept killing until they’d reached their target.”
    
    Yeah, I meant worse than what they already did. They only lost a handful of men and killed 1300. Imagine what they’d have done if Hamas had put up enough of a fight to kill hundreds of Israelis. I don’t know if Hamas fighters are well trained enough to have done that, but if so it’s just as well they didn’t.
  - mondonut
    October 15, 2012, 11:02 am
    
    Annie Robbins says: i do not view hezbollah as a non state iranian proxy. hezbollah is very much a part of lebanon’s government…
    =======================================
    http://www.jpost.com/Headlines/Article.aspx?id=287861
    
    Former Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said that the Hezbollah-dispatched unmanned aerial vehicle that flew over Israel was sent at Iran’s behest, and was not a Lebanese decision, a statement issued by Siniora’s press office said.
    
    “Sending the drone over Israel is not a Lebanese decision, however the move was made at an Iranian behest. Such act needs techniques only available in Iran,” Lebanese news site The Daily Star quoted Siniora as telling his visitors at his Sidon’s office.
    
    The former prime minister did not condemn the infiltration, stating instead: “We are proud of any triumph against the Israeli enemy, however Hezbollah Chief Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah hasn’t consulted the Lebanese state about sending a drone over Israel.”
  - Taxi
    October 15, 2012, 1:27 pm
    
    Is that the same mister Siniora whom wikileaks exposed as collaborating with Condi Rice and Olmert against the Lebanese Resistance during the 2006 war?
    
    I’ll have you know he has zero support or respect amongst most sunni, shia and christian Lebanese – I’ll remind you here too that it was the popularity of hizbollah’s political arm that pushed him out of office, so of course your zionist propaganda rag would quote him and his sour grapes, instead of quoting General Aon, popular leader of the Lebanese christians who was more than delighted with Hizbollah’s Ayoub.
    
    You can verbally discredit the hizb all you like, you can call it a devil’s proxy for all they care, it don’t change the fact that they’re the very Lebanese resistance that kicked yer ass on the battlefield not too long ago.
    
    I suggest your learn more about Lebanese internal politics before you go around quoting inconsequential ex-politicians who’ve been discredited and thrown into the garbage heap by their own people.
- ColinWright
  October 11, 2012, 5:36 pm
  
  Taxi says: “You think the zios might have the concept of peace scribbled on their defense re-configuration plan?”
  
  Nope. That’s actually one of their major weaknesses.
  
  Normal nations eventually reach an understanding with their neighbors. That understanding may or may not be just — but it’s mutually recognized. Tacitly or otherwise, both sides recognize the line in about the same place, and get on with life.
  
  Israel’s not like that. Her vision of ‘peace’ is everyone either quivering in terror or somehow beholden to the United States — which Israel herself controls when it comes to matters Levantine. Israel probably could reach an understanding with Hezbollah rather easily. Hezbollah’s concerns are Shi’a and Lebanese — she really just doesn’t have an axe to grind south of the border. What’s more, while Hezbollah will stand up to Israel as needed, she can’t actually enjoy getting deluged in high explosive and cluster bombs, and would just as soon forgo it.
  
  But can Israel accept that? No — she has to engage in endless attempts to demonstrate her sovereignty north of the border. She’ll never be able to admit that ‘yeah — they stay over there, and we stay over here.’ That can’t happen — not with Israel.
  
  It’s a dream of total, unqualified supremacy — and Israel’s going to keep reflexively trying to realize it.
  
  That’s one of the things the ‘soft’ critics of Israel have to realize. There isn’t a ‘good’ Israel out there. There never will be. For as long as that state is there, there will be endless conflict. Consider Leiberman’s boast that ‘he knows how to talk to the Arabs.’ Well, that such a slogan — with all that is implied — would even be in the mix says it all.
  
  It is — at best — a considerably more bellicose and less paternalistic version of the US stance towards Latin America in the years of ‘dollar diplomacy.’ Well, that had a lot of things going for it that made it a viable policy. Such a state of dominance could indeed be enforced with a minimum of violence.
  
  But the times have changed, Israel offers nothing attractive to the elites of her neighbors, and she certainly doesn’t culturally or economically dominate them. When it comes to Israel, such a stance is simply a formula for continued misery for all concerned.
  
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  - thetumta
    October 11, 2012, 8:01 pm
    
    I suspect it’s water and now natural gas. Sooner or later they plan on stealing both. After all what was the butcher Sharon seeking for those 10 years?
  - ColinWright
    October 12, 2012, 2:06 am
    
    tehtumta says: ‘I suspect it’s water and now natural gas. Sooner or later they plan on stealing both. After all what was the butcher Sharon seeking for those 10 years?’
    
    I don’t think Israel’s aggression is driven by rational forces so much as it is a symptom of her outlook on the world and her social needs. If she were an individual, she’d be diagnosed as a violent psychotic.
    
    Happily, it doesn’t follow that the individuals making up Israel are disturbed themselves. So it seems reasonable to assume that most of them will be able to function normally if they are removed from their present environment. However, we might want to screen them — sort of a ‘dezionification’ process.
ColinWright
October 11, 2012, 4:08 pm

The main point — to my mind — is that the drones are not a ‘terrorist outrage.’

They don’t kill any school children. The threat is abstract, and not clothed in graphic horror.

At the same time, they are likely to drive Israel to commit some egregious outrage in response, thus further delegitimizing herself.

It’s a bloody tactic, but perhaps a necessary one. Israel isn’t going to go away because we politely explain to her that she should. She needs to be made to destroy herself — and this is one way to get her to do it.

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annie
October 11, 2012, 4:33 pm

ha! the bbc says “Hezbollah admits launching drone over Israel”

admits? more like bragging if you ask me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19914441

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Rusty Pipes
October 11, 2012, 5:18 pm

Interestingly, the major points in Nasrallah’s announcement were covered by the beeb, excluding this one:

– 0 minutes ago He said since the implementation of UNSCR 1701, there have been 20,864 violations of Lebanese airspace by the Jewish state.

GOI violates Lebanese airspace with warplanes many times a week. Hezbollah gets an observer drone deep into Israeli airspace and it’s news.

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- mondonut
  October 11, 2012, 6:52 pm
  
  Hilarious.
  
  Nasrallah comments on the very UN Resolution that stipulates the disarming of Hezbollah.
  
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  - talknic
    October 11, 2012, 9:28 pm
    
    mondonut October 11, 2012 at 6:52 pm
    
    ” the very UN Resolution that stipulates the disarming of Hezbollah:
    
    It does? Where? http://wp.me/pDB7k-uD
    
    Anyone have any notions on why the Lebanese army doesn’t engage with Israel?
  - RoHa
    October 12, 2012, 12:22 am
    
    I thought it was because the Lebanese Army consisted of three men (equipped with bicycles) and a rather elderly Yorkshire terrier.
  - Walid
    October 12, 2012, 1:21 am
    
    The Lebanese Army is actually 70,000-man strong. It has the training, the will and the courage to defend Lebanon’s borders but the US will not allow it to have to necessary arms to do it. the US has nontheless graciously donated to Lebanon hundreds of gas-guzzling Dodge Chargers and Humvees as well as hand-launched surveillance drones and side arms.
  - Taxi
    October 12, 2012, 12:36 am
    
    Yeah mondonut,
    It’s super “hilarious”! I mean how dare the hizb behave like THEY’RE the ‘chosen ones’?!
shachalnur
October 11, 2012, 5:21 pm

sorry to be a partypoop.
I’m a big fan of debkafile;facts and fiction mixed up,and when they tell you “what’s really happening” they tell you the opposite of reality.
Great source of info.
Debka;”had there been weapons aboard…..reminding Israel of it’s worst nightmare;An Iranian plane flying over with a nuclear bomb……..The arial flight may well have been a preparatory step for such an attack”.
Perilous times,lot’s of misinformation ,psy-ops,false flags.
Off course Hezbollah will claim they sent the drone,great psychological warfare.
But it’s all diversion from the real problem;”Is it in Israel’s interest that Syria will be attacked by Turkey(Nato) without a coordinated attack by US and Israel on Iran and Hezbollah at the same time,leaving Israel sitting duck to retaliation from Hezbollah,Syria and/or Iran?
Why the problems between Bibi and Obama?Why this hastened, unholy alliance of neocons,mormons(Romney) and Likud to unseat him?
Could it be that Israel’s historical supporters in US and Europe have pulled the plug on Israel.
Israel has served it’s purpose and is “sacrificed”,leaving Israel to battle for it’s fysical survival(Martin van Creveld recently warned Europe;”Israel has the weapons to drag the world down with them”.)

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- Denis
  October 12, 2012, 10:32 am
  
  “Off course Hezbollah will claim they sent the drone,great psychological warfare.”
  
  Can’t say I agree with, or even follow, the rest of your comment, but I agree with this.
  
  I would no more believe Nasrallah than I would believe Netanyahu. They are both psychopathic liars. They both have something to gain by claiming this was a Hezbollah drone. If they are both making that claim publicly, it is almost,by definition, a lie.
  
  Had this drone been a present from Nasrallah, they would have flown it over a populated area to make shooting it down problematic. Why would the Hez make the thing take a U-turn and fly it into the Negev to make shooting it down easy? If Nasrallah wanted to make some sort of technological point, he would have flown it over Sderot or landed it at Tel Nof AFB and scared the b’jesus out of everybody.
  
  What Nas and Bibi are saying makes no sense. This was an Israeli operation. It’s like all those missiles from Gaza that for years and years have fallen harmlessly in the desert but spark retaliation.
  
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  - shachalnur
    October 12, 2012, 3:52 pm
    
    in essence we seem to agree.
    What’s so difficult to follow about the rest?
    It’s what’s happening;Debkafile today,”palestinians traveling to Gaza bring in the components for the drone in small pieces,and then Hamas assembles them in Gaza”(LOL)
    Turkey is threatening Syria but I can’t see any cheerleading by the Israeli press.
    Israel right now is fighting for it’s physical survival ,because an uncoordinated attack on Lebanon,Syria and Iran at the same time might open Pandora’s box.
    Obama,or his puppetmasters,don’t seem to be willing to do this.
    The elections in the US are expected to turn very ugly,because the historical movers of power in the US have no control over Romney.
    Another way to swing support back to Obama will be an attack on Syria by Turkey,with possible horrible consequences for Israel.
    Today Netanyahu said he offered Syria the Golan in 2010,true or not ,these are desperate statements .
    The people behind the creation of Israel don’t care about Jewish lives,they’ve shown that in the Holocaust.
    The creation of Israel for them is one just one more move on the global geopolitcal chessboard.
    For them Israel and jews ,for that matter, are expendable.
    I think Israel finally woke up to that fact,therefore the desperate efforts to turn the tide by trying to get Romney in power.
    I’m not sure it will work ,though.
Les
October 11, 2012, 6:10 pm

This reminds me of a citizen’s arrest when governments do nothing to apprehend criminals in their jurisdiction which requires individual citizens to do just that if there is to be any justice under law. Lebanon’s govenment is presumably under US orders not to defend its borders against any and every Israeli violation. Lebanon’s patriots are left with the sole choice of taking up the defense of their nation themselves, if there is to be any defense whatsoever.

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- Walid
  October 12, 2012, 1:02 am
  
  “Lebanon’s govenment is presumably under US orders not to defend its borders against any and every Israeli violation.” (Les)
  
  The US is not actually ordering it to not defend itself, but simply ordering other countries to not supply it with weapons that would permit to do so. The US has blocked sales and transfers of anti-aircraft missiles, armed attack helicopters and modern tanks to replace its WW II ones under the pretext that those weapons could one day be used against Israel, which in America’s book is a cardinal sin. 4 or 5 years ago when the fundamentalist terrorists fought the army at the Nahr al-Bared Palestinian camp, the army had to hand-drop bombs over the terrorists from the unarmed Vietnam-vintage Hueys that the US had sold to Lebanon. The bombs were home-made by the army itself because it could not get them from elsewhere. Its tanks couldn’t be used after a while because they ran of munitions because tank shells for 60 and 70-year old tanks were no longer produced. About 160 soldiers were killed and over 500 injured in the battle against the much better-armed Salafists at Nahr al-Bared.
  
  In 2010 when a border “tree-cutting” incident between the Lebanese Army and the IDF resulted in an Israeli officer being killed by sniper fire, the US Senate froze all aid to Lebanon while it was being determined if the rifle used in the killing was an American-issued M16. It was of no interest to the Senate that immediately after the sniper shot the Israeli soldier, an Israeli Apache using an American-supplied missile fried 3 Lebanese soldiers and a journalist. This incident demonstrated that in spite of the Israeli forces being much better armed than the Lebanese army, Lebanese soldiers armed with nothing more than M16s are willing to confront the Israelis at the border. When Lebanon can get surface to air missiles (that can’t be used to attack Israel in any event), Hizbullah would disarm, but until that happens, Hizbullah’s arms are what’s keeping Israel on its side of the border.
  
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  - Les
    October 12, 2012, 10:36 am
    
    Thanks for your input.
    
    It appears that as the Syria fight gets into Lebanon, the US will be suited to save the country from turmoil, complete with all the necessary modern weapons Lebanon has been denied.
talknic
October 11, 2012, 6:23 pm

Odd that there’s only one actual quote. Yet folk’re supposed to believe the report…

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- annie
  October 11, 2012, 7:07 pm
  
  talknic, there was some discussion in the other thread when the story broke.
  
  http://mondoweiss.net/2012/10/israeli-warplanes-stage-mock-raids-over-southern-lebanon-break-sound-barrier.html/comment-page-1#comment-507084
  
  there have been two sources who heard the speech.
  
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  - talknic
    October 11, 2012, 9:17 pm
    
    A R – my comment was on shoddy ‘journalism’
hophmi
October 11, 2012, 6:32 pm

So, which of you here are Hizbollah-firsters?

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- thetumta
  October 11, 2012, 8:07 pm
  
  Probably none as we’re Americans, but most of Lebanon appears to be. What’s your point, Israeli? Did you hear the booing at the DNC convention? Your just 10 days too late.
  Hej!
  
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  - Walid
    October 12, 2012, 12:18 am
    
    “Probably none as we’re Americans, but most of Lebanon appears to be. ” (thetumta)
    
    Not most according hophmi’s definition of “firsters” but many, although the “most” does apply to those that are sympathetic to Hizbullah’s anti-Israel stance simply out of loyalty and concern for Lebanon because they are grateful for Hizbullah having liberated Lebanon from Israel’s 22-year occupation. Those that are more familiar with how it conducts itself are aware that Hizbullah is always reminding its followers to put the interests of Lebanon ahead of every thing, even Hizbullah’s.
LeaNder
October 11, 2012, 7:00 pm

(Martin van Creveld recently warned Europe;”Israel has the weapons to drag the world down with them”

I haven’t heard the Martin van Creval web hoax for quite a while Do you feel we really still need that story with Bibi around? ;)

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- marc b.
  October 12, 2012, 3:34 pm
  
  I haven’t heard the Martin van Creval web hoax for quite a while Do you feel we really still need that story with Bibi around? ;)
  
  i’m not certain what that means exactly, but regardless of any apparent misquotation of creveld, he has clearly and consistently stated his support for the adoption of a national defense policy based on mutually assured destruction.
  
  creveld:
  
  I think that war, i.e. politically-organized armed conflict, is part of human nature; recent observations have even confirmed the existence of something very like it among chimpanzees. Therefore it is almost certainly going to be with us as long as humanity itself lasts. As history since Hiroshima shows, the best, perhaps the only, way to curb war is to deter it with such overwhelming force as to turn it from a struggle into suicide. The best way to mitigate it is to use all possible means to bring it to a speedy end. I think both Clausewitz and Sun Tzu would agree on these points.
  
  we don’t need dodgy individual creveld quotes to know that the biblically-based, kosher berserker pose is part of israel’s own cultivated image. and we don’t need ‘bibi’ the individual for anything. he isn’t some recent aberration; his policies are largely consistent with his predecessors. he’s just more of a blowhard and extrovert. but that’s a matter of personality, not state conduct.
  
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  - shachalnur
    October 14, 2012, 8:14 pm
    
    “We have the capability to take the world down with us.And I can assure you that will happen before Israel goes under”
    Elsevier,dutch weekly ,september 2003.
    also published in the Guardian weekly ,
    check links on wikipedia “Martin van Creveld”
    I read dutch,so there’s no hoax or misquotes.
    Van Creveld repeated similar wordings in tv interview recently.
    sorry,don’t remember where.
piotr
October 11, 2012, 7:31 pm

Someone has sent the drone. Israel already commenced killing in Gaza, as always when something happens. Actually, it is hard to think about anyone except for Hezbollah that would have both capability and inclination. The only question is if the drone was launched from a ground base or from the sea, which is actually a more scary scenario: some unknown and undetected sea-born capacity.

In any case, it is almost certain that Israel did not observe the drone over the sea, or too late to launch any interception. So it did not have to be the first investigative drone.

It is hard for me to imagine that Dimona can be seriously damaged by light weight drones or missiles. Intel factory in the area — not so much. Hezbollah (end the sponsors) send a signal that the speeches that threatened massive retaliation in the event of an attack are not just idle talk.

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- ColinWright
  October 12, 2012, 1:49 am
  
  piotr “Someone has sent the drone. Israel already commenced killing in Gaza, as always when something happens…”
  
  I’m laughing, which means I’m a bad person, but it’s so true…
  
  If Israel didn’t have a Gaza, it would have to invent it.
  
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- BillM
  October 12, 2012, 2:55 pm
  
  Some points.
  
  – The drone was almost certainly launched from land. Why would it need to be launched from see, and why would Hezbollah take the risk?
  – We can make some rough calculations. Someone above claims it was flying over Israel for 22 minutes. Another article claimed it fly 35 miles deep into Israel. That gives us a speed of about 100 mph. Not bad for a small drone. folks above say it was flying for 3 hours, giving us a flying distance of 300 miles (and still clearly going strong when it was shot down). So this thing has some range, clearly enough to reach any point in Israel from Lebanon.
  – The drone was unarmed. This fact does not demonstate one way or the other whether Hezbollah or Iran have armed drones, but they clearly wouldn’t waste one on a recon mission.
  – The drone had surveillance equipment and communication equipment to send data home. Else, why bother, and Hezbollah is clearly not stupid or unsophisticated.
  – It hardly matters if it was armed. A drone with a payload capacity can be a flying bomb, a guided missile. Clearly the guidance works just fine over water or land.
  – The Israeli surface to air missiles (which cover Gaza where the drone crossed) were unable to engage the drone, and fighters had to be scrambled to take it down.
  – Thus, Hezbollah has in effect proved it has a long-range targetable cruise missile which can reach pretty much any point in Israel. This can also reach any point off the Israeli coast.
  – The Israeli government is counting on natural gas finds to make it rich, but platforms in the middle of the sea are hard to defend. Hezbollah just flew a little cruise missile that is immune to Israeli SAMs through this area for three hours.
  – The cost of protecting Israel’s new gas finds just went up substantially.
  
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flyod
October 11, 2012, 7:33 pm

that hez flight is going to cost the u.s. taxpayer some serious cash

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wes
October 12, 2012, 5:36 am

whenever i read a post about hezb…and how they won this and that i am reminded of the before and after satelite photos taken of beirut before and after the 2006 war

obviously the financial cost must have been enormous in fact the fighting resulted in a huge financial setback for Lebanon, with an official estimate of a fall in growth from +6% to 2% and US$5 Billion (22% of GDP)in direct and indirect costs

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- annie
  October 12, 2012, 10:13 am
  
  yes, it was undoubtedly a financial setback for lebanon, but that pales in comparison to what they gained by winning that war and what israel lost by loosing it. after all, that’s what most people are reminded of when they think of the summer of 06. that was when public opinion firmly turned against israel.. their net loss, hezbollah/lebanon’s gain .
  
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  - piotr
    October 12, 2012, 7:33 pm
    
    Concerning financial cost of 2006 war, Iran help with rebuilding, further increasing the stature of Hezbollah. Clearly, since that time Israel refrains from bombing, assassinating (the war was preceded by an assassination of a Hezbollah figure), or even commando actions (IDF send a commando team to Lebanon right after the ceasefire, with a disastrous result, and did not repeat it in spite of insistence that “they reserve the right to do it).
    
    Clearly, in spite of wanted “international law” a nation has only as many rights as it can enforce using its arms and allies. Israel has impunity in UN given American support. Lebanon has Hezbollah and Iran. Since USA will not offer a protection against Israel, Lebanon will not get a better deal. More precisely, USA cannot offer a credible protection against Israel, only some worthless pablum.
    
    The conclusion is that however bloody and destructive, the war of 2006 is giving some lasting protection to both Lebanon and Israel (Israel has superiority, but lost moral hazard to engage in counterproductive shit, so it does it with Gaza instead). Part of that outcome hinges on the assumption that the arms that Hezbollah has now are much more effective than its 2006 arsenal. Periodic harmless demonstrations of that stabilize the situation.
    
    More sophisticated weapons can be deployed against smaller targets than wide residential areas, like port facilities, factories, power transmission etc. Knocking them out could inflict considerable economic loss.
    
    PS. I raised the possibility that the drone was launched from the sea because there is an unresolved question why it did fly so long without being detected. Small and rather slow drone can be made to have a very faint radar signature, and flying very close to the surface substantially hinders detection. This is why Turkey tested Syrian air defenses with sea skimming jets. THAT did not work. But a drone can perhaps fly still much closer to the surface. Stealth submarines were also developed in South/Central America for drug smuggling, so potentially a stealthy micro-sub could drag a drone in a protective sheath, pull it out, launch and hide back.
    
    I suspect that nobody will give a speech when a drone will land in USA. But I also think that this will eventually happen.
  - Taxi
    October 13, 2012, 1:02 am
    
    Speaking of where the Ayoub drone took off, it was in the news yesterday that apparently the American ambassador to Lebanon personally made an impromptu visit to Beirut International Airport two days ago, pushing herself into the office of the airport director and demanding to know if the Ayoub took off from the airport.
    
    Weird kinda panic, don’t you think?
  - wes
    October 13, 2012, 8:31 am
    
    annie
    
    the israelis bombed lebanon and seriously damaged hezb capabilities and then told the world they lost the war .
    sounds like a public relations win win situation to me
  - Walid
    October 13, 2012, 1:53 pm
    
    “the israelis bombed lebanon and seriously damaged hezb capabilities and then told the world they lost the war.” (Wes)
    
    Damaged Hizbullah’s capabilities? Hizbullah immobilized about 80 “invincible” Merkavas, 40 of them permanently, downed a couple of helicopters and crippled Israel’s most sophisticated warship, the Hanit, that took 2 years to get it repaired and back in service, and until the last day of the war, Hizbullah was firing 400 Katyushas into Israel and you say Israel damaged Hizbullah’s capabilities??? You should read the talkback comments in today’s Yediot A. (Hebrew) in the article describing Israel’s shameful non-performance regarding the drone. Some Israelis are actually cheering Hizbullah for having embarrassed Netanyahu.
Taxi
October 13, 2012, 1:19 am

Where would the franchise be today if Ian Fleming had called his Dr. No, Dr. Noonoo?

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– 9 minutes ago		Nasrallah said the drone flew over sensitive locations of Israel and said the Jewish state identified it over the suspected Demona nuclear site.
– 4 minutes ago		He said the UAV was Iranian made but assembled by members of Hezbollah.
– 1 minute ago		Nasrallah said it was the party’s “natural right” to send drones into Israel “whenever we want and this will not be last time.”
– 0 minutes ago		He said since the implementation of UNSCR 1701, there have been 20,864 violations of Lebanese airspace by the Jewish state.

– 30 minutes ago		Nasrallah said the drone flight over Israel proved Hezbollah was not pre-occupied by other regional developments.
– 7 minutes ago		The Hezbollah chief also denied that members of the resistance group were in Syria fighting alongside forces loyal to President Bashar Assad.
– 3 minutes ago		Nasrallah said one of the aims of the unrest in Syria was to tarnish the name of the resistance.

Hezbollah leader Sayyed Hasan Nasrallah waves to the crowd in Beirut, on Monday, Sept. 17, 2012. (The Daily Star/Hasan Shaaban)

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