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Both Sides: Anti-BDS concerns on campus vs. life in the occupied territories

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Katie Miranda

Katie Miranda is an illustrator, jewelry designer, calligrapher, and cartoonist living in Portland, OR. Her Arabic calligraphy jewelry and apparel are favorites of people in the Palestine solidarity community. Katie runs Palbox: a quarterly subscription box containing Palestinian goods benefiting the Northern California branch of the International Solidarity Movement. Connect on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram

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94 Responses

  1. Krauss on April 3, 2014, 9:16 am

    Brilliant, but don’t forget, BDS is “divisive”. I think an Apartheid wall is pretty divisive, but maybe I’m just one of those self-hating Jews?

  2. amigo on April 3, 2014, 10:29 am

    Look , I know Palestinian Children are arrested and beaten and kept overnight in open prison cages but why should I not look forward to going to school so I can grow up happy and educated and secure.
    Why should I carry this burden.I am just trying to get on with my life.

    It is not as if I carry out these actions and in any case those Palestinians are out to kill all Jews.Well at least that is what I was told in school and at home and by my rabbi.

  3. JeffB on April 3, 2014, 10:30 am

    @Katie

    Very funny. But in reality there are two different issues:

    1) How should Israel treat the Palestinians?
    2) Should the debate about (1) be conducted in a civil polite manner? Or rather in a manner designed to create / inflame ethnic tensions on campus?

    I get that it is easy for BDS to conflate these two arguments. But ultimately they are separate questions. No can argue that Palestinians in Israel don’t have much much worse problems than American Jews at mainstream universities. The levels of violence being complained about are being shoved or hit with a shopping cart, not having their homes bombed. But it is an irrelevant point. Administrators at most Universities are not going to allow their campuses to become unfriendly places for Jewish students. A good cause does not justify rudeness. There is no reason (1) can’t be discussed in a way that is civil.

    • Shingo on April 3, 2014, 6:11 pm

      I get that it is easy for BDS to conflate these two arguments. But ultimately they are separate questions.

      No they simply make your job more difficult as a hasbarat.

      Administrators at most Universities are not going to allow their campuses to become unfriendly places for Jewish students.

      Oh I see. Should administrators at Universities not allow their campuses to become unfriendly places for White Supremacists too? Should the fact that Jewish students are uncomfortable provide reason to suppress freedom of expression and speech?

      You simply want to turn universities into the West Bank.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:05 am

        The comparison between Jews on campus who are being persecuted by other members of their college and White Supremacists on campus are very different. A Jewish student may or may not have various political views with regards to Israel yet he is made to feel uncomfortable either way. Whereas by definition a White Supremacist has oppressive views on other members of his society and his college where he is based.

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 4:38 am

        A Jewish student may or may not have various political views with regards to Israel yet he is made to feel uncomfortable either way. Whereas by definition a White Supremacist has oppressive views on other members of his society and his college where he is based.

        False argument. Your logic rests entirely on the assumption that all Jews are Zionist or supporters of Israel. It also ignores the fact that many proponents of BDS are Jewish.

        Your argument can further be debunked by the fact that the only ones claiming to be persecuted or made to feel uncomfortable were pro Israeli Jews.

        The distinction between Zionists and White supremacists is that Zionists are ashamed to admit their supremacist views. Zionist Jews who went to the Supreme Court to ban voluntary prayer in public schools have no problem supporting a Jewish state in Israel.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 6:46 am

        Well, in that case if my assumption is wrong, then why are Jews being targeted on campuses around the world with regards to Israel???? Whilst Muslims and Christians are not being targeted for any crimes that occur in a Muslim or Christian country?

        The main difference Shingo, seeing as you mentioned it is as follows. White Supremacists target every member of society if they are not White Christians. So, Indians, Colored people, Jewish People. Whereas Israel accepts and embraces and protects the rights of all religions and all ethnicity. Don’t believe me.. Come here and I will show you

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 7:54 am

        Well, in that case if my assumption is wrong, then why are Jews being targeted on campuses around the world with regards to Israel????

        What evidence do you have that Jews being targeted on campuses around the world with regards to Israel? How come Jews are backing BDS if they knew that Jews being targeted on campuses around the world with regards to Israel?

        White Supremacists target every member of society if they are not White Christians.

        And Zionists target every member of society if they are critics of Israel.

        Whereas Israel accepts and embraces and protects the rights of all religions and all ethnicity.

        Unless they are black African asylum seekers, in which case, they are declared a cancer and a threat to the security of Israel and deported.

        Or unless they are Arabs, in which case Avigdor Lieberman is busy coming up with a legal basis for deporting them from Israel.

        Israel is a racist, apartheid, fascist state. It is the most racist state in the industrialized world.

      • RoHa on April 8, 2014, 5:14 am

        “The comparison between Jews on campus who are being persecuted by other members of their college ”

        Are any Jews being persecuted by other members of their college?

        “A Jewish student may or may not have various political views with regards to Israel yet he is made to feel uncomfortable either way. ”

        What makes them feel uncomfortable? Having their beliefs questioned, their attitudes challenged, learning things they have not heard before? That’s called “education”. If that is what makes them uncomfortable, they should stay away from colleges, schools, and universities.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 8:16 am

        1) If you are not familiar to Jews backing organizations that are Anti Israel and Anti Jewish then welcome to planet earth. Believe it or not there are Palestinians who are Anti Palestine and want Hamas overthrown and want to be under Israeli control. Does that mean that they are right, not necessarily but you are going to have to get used to the fact that their are factions within every side of this equation that do not like and protest against their own kind, if you are to understand the situation at all.

        2) “And Zionists target every member of society if they are critics of Israel. ”
        By your definition anyone who stands up for any organization or principle is comparable to the KKK. you aren’t going to get very far in law school with that thought mate.

        3) “Israel is a racist, apartheid, fascist state. It is the most racist state in the industrialized world.”

        Really? You have no idea! None whatsoever. I would love to show you here the refugees who had to run past Egypt at the fear of being killed to get to safety here. The country has over 1 million arabs who have the same healthcare benefits and other benefits as any other Israeli citizen.

        Mate, there is this revolutionary new thing called CNN, it is a channel where you can see all the travesties in the Western world 24/7. Watch it for a week, then rewrite that sentence

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 9:02 am

        1) If you are not familiar to Jews backing organizations that are Anti Israel and Anti Jewish then welcome to planet earth.

        If you cannot provide any evidence to back up your hot air, then welcome to reality.

        Believe it or not there are Palestinians who are Anti Palestine and want Hamas overthrown and want to be under Israeli control.

        Believe it or not there are jews who are Anti Israel and want Zionism abolished and want to be under Arab control.

        By your definition anyone who stands up for any organization or principle is comparable to the KKK.

        Those supporting BDS are standing up for principals but you equate that with harassments and persecution. So that’s not what you are realy trying to say.

        What you are arguing for is for Zionism to exist in a hermetically sealed bubble when it is never questioned or refuted, or challenged or opposed. The same bubble you reside in.

        Really? You have no idea! None whatsoever.

        Yes I have plenty of idea. I have been to Israel and the occupied territories and as Desmond Tutu has said, Israel is worse than apartheid.

        We have seen how Irsael treats refugees when they are not shooting them as they try to return to their homes.

        We have seen pogroms against African refugees.

        The country has over 1 million arabs who have the same healthcare benefits and other benefits as any other Israeli citizen.

        False. They live as 3rd class citizens and Israel’s foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, is working around the clock on a way to expel them from Israel. There are over 30 racist laws that discriinate against none Jews.

        Israel is the only Western country where even liberals can talk openly about demographic engineering without being denounced as extremist, racist biggots. Not even the most right wing radio hosts in the US could getaway with such racist, fascist talk.

        Mate, there is this revolutionary new thing called CNN, it is a channel where you can see all the travesties in the Western world 24/7. Watch it for a week, then rewrite that sentence

    • Hostage on April 4, 2014, 12:31 am

      But in reality there are two different issues:

      1) How should Israel treat the Palestinians?
      2) Should the debate about (1) be conducted in a civil polite manner? Or rather in a manner designed to create / inflame ethnic tensions on campus?

      3)Well you forgot “Should we allow agents of a foreign power to stop us from exercising our 1st Amendment right to conduct political boycotts”?
      4) How should we treat agents who aid and abet the crimes of pillage and apartheid?

      Article III

      International criminal responsibility shall apply, irrespective of the motive involved, to individuals, members of organizations and institutions and representatives of the State, whether residing in the territory of the State in which the acts are perpetrated or in some other State, whenever they:

      (a) Commit, participate in, directly incite or conspire in the commission of the acts mentioned in article II of the present Convention;

      (b) Directly abet, encourage or co-operate in the commission of the crime of apartheid. http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/apartheid-supp.html

    • annie on April 4, 2014, 3:39 am

      No can argue that Palestinians in Israel don’t have much much worse problems than American Jews at mainstream universities…..But it is an irrelevant point.

      not really. on american campuses we’re being directed to prioritize jewish feelings. why?

      Administrators at most Universities are not going to allow their campuses to become unfriendly places for Jew

      hmm…yeah, we get that. and it’s our job not to prioritize your concerns over those of others, like palestinians. we can’t protect ethnic cleansing of the judaization of palestine. and it’s not the job of “Administrators at most Universities” to protect ethnic nationalism,jewish or otherwise. this is america. we are a civic national country. if that bums you out or makes life ‘unfriendly’, deal with it. it’s not our job to accept kowtowed university administrators, it’s out job to confront them and make them uncomfortable when they’re wrong .

      shingo You simply want to turn universities into the West Bank.

      and not just universities. they want to privilege a jewish narrative over palestinian narrative everywhere in our country. a mental occupation over palestinians anywhere and everywhere. and it’s just not going to work.

      • Shingo on April 4, 2014, 4:17 am

        Administrators at most Universities are not going to allow their campuses to become unfriendly places for Jew

        hmm…and what about palestinians? this is america.

        So many Wittiisms hey Annie?

      • JeffB on April 4, 2014, 8:29 am

        @Annie

        not really. on american campuses we’re being directed to prioritize jewish feelings. why?

        Because the Jews go to school there and Palestinians in West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Lebanon…. don’t. Of course you have to prioritize the feelings of the University’s customers over the people effected by the political issue being discussed.

        hmm…yeah, we get that. and it’s our job not to prioritize your concerns over those of others, like palestinians. we can’t protect ethnic cleansing of the judaization of palestine. and it’s not the job of “Administrators at most Universities” to protect ethnic nationalism,jewish or otherwise. this is america. we are a civic national country. if that bums you out or makes life ‘unfriendly’, deal with it. it’s not our job to accept kowtowed university administrators, it’s out job to confront them and make them uncomfortable when they’re wrong .

        The ability to attract students especially tuition paying student, to attract donors and to maintain public support is core to their function. Whatever happens in Israel / Palestine will have essentially 0 impact on UMich. If UMich experiences a variety of white flight caused by Jewish students no longer believing that UMich is a welcoming environment that’s devastating regarding their function. They lose a large number of tuition paying students, they lost grants, they lose the ability to attract faculty and in exchange the best they get is a noisy divestment group which offends their board. The administration simply is not going to allow the BDS group to create ethnic tension because they think they have a good cause.

        The job of Universities with respect to undergrads is to educate them. Ethnic tension interferes with the University’s ability to perform its primary function. Demonstrations are an entertaining part of college life like frat parties or going to football games. It isn’t core to their function. Universities want a vigorous political debate on policy issues because it helps prepare student for what they’ll face in life. Universities don’t want ethnic tension because it undermines their ability to prepare students. When a political group decides to shift from policy debate to creating ethnic tension they will then react agains them.

        . it’s not our job to accept kowtowed university administrators

        That’s fine. But now you have picked up yet another barrier. Now your problem isn’t Israel isn’t divestment isn’t Jewish students but is the administration. And then NorthEastern happens. Or more likely Irvine. where the kowtowed university administrators tell the police the group won’t follow university policy and so assert simple property rights.

      • Shingo on April 4, 2014, 4:56 pm

        Because the Jews go to school there and Palestinians in West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Lebanon…. don’t.

        So what? Are you suggesting facts and history should be tailored to suit the demographic of the student body?

        Of course you have to prioritize the feelings of the University’s customers over the people effected by the political issue being discussed.

        That’s a perfect way to destroy one’s credibility as an academic institution and a point at which it becomes an indoctrination program.

        The ability to attract students especially tuition paying student, to attract donors and to maintain public support is core to their function.

        No it’s not part of the function, it’s at best a compromise. It’s no more part of the function of an academic institution than it is for elite athletes to take steroids in order to be competitive.

        Whatever happens in Israel / Palestine will have essentially 0 impact on UMich.

        I don’t know how old UMich is but a great deal has happened in Israel / Palestine and it clearly has not had any impact on UMich.

        If UMich experiences a variety of white flight caused by Jewish students no longer believing that UMich is a welcoming environment that’s devastating regarding their function.

        It’s very unfortunate, but does not impact the function of the university.

        The administration simply is not going to allow the BDS group to create ethnic tension because they think they have a good cause.

        There is no ethnic tension, there is political tension and universities are breeding grounds for it – and rightly so. What you are suggesting is that the sensitivities of Israeli supporters come before facts and reason. You’re also arguing that the views of Jews is more important than those of non Jews.

        That’s racial supremacy.

      • JeffB on April 4, 2014, 10:20 pm

        @Shingo

        I’m going to try engaging. Generally I just skip you but this is a new topic.

        So what? Are you suggesting facts and history should be tailored to suit the demographic of the student body?

        Absolutely not. I’m suggesting side activities like political activism should be tailored to suit the demographic of the student body. So for example when I taught at UMinn there was lots of broom-ball, at UCLA none at all. That was entirely about demographics, they know how to build ice rinks in LA too.

        JeffB: The ability to attract students especially tuition paying student, to attract donors and to maintain public support is core to their function.

        Shingo: No it’s not part of the function, it’s at best a compromise. It’s no more part of the function of an academic institution than it is for elite athletes to take steroids in order to be competitive.

        For any product selling the product is core.

        Jeffb: Whatever happens in Israel / Palestine will have essentially 0 impact on UMich.

        Shingo: I don’t know how old UMich is but a great deal has happened in Israel / Palestine and it clearly has not had any impact on UMich.

        That’s what I said. You aren’t disagreeing.

        There is no ethnic tension, there is political tension

        Feelings and acts of prejudice or hostility towards an ethnic group in various degrees. That’s ethnic tension and that’s what’s happening. Many ethnic tensions are based in underlying politics, probably most are. But that doesn’t change their nature.

        What you are suggesting is that the sensitivities of Israeli supporters come before facts and reason. You’re also arguing that the views of Jews is more important than those of non Jews. That’s racial supremacy.

        No I’m not. I’m arguing for polite civilized presentation. There is nothing about the facts and reason that require rudeness. The rudeness, not the facts, is what creates the problem.

        As for the view of Jews being more important than non-Jews and racial supremacy: Jews aren’t a race.

        I think for the University the opinions of tuition paying students are more important than those on aid. I think the opinions of large donors are more important than either.

        Charles Munger for example donated $130m to UMich and wanted better graduate school housing. He’s getting it.

        In the same way UMich #1 donor is Stephen Ross for whom the Ross school of business is named. Ross is Jewish, a major Romney donor, has worked directly with the government of Israel on several projects and the nephew of Max Fischer. Stephen himself has no history of strong Zionist involvement but given those views what do you think are his likely opinions about BDS if he were to find out about it?

        Ross donates in clumps but if you were to break it out it would be something like $1000 to ever aide student per year at the University. Mary Sue Coleman’s job is to keep the Ross’s of the world happy not to win independence for Palestine.

        #3 donor is A. Alfred Taubman of the Taubman Health Sciences Library and the Taubman College of Architecture is also Jewish. His wife is an Israeli beauty queen and he is close friends with Donald Trump and Henry Kissinger. Wanna guess where he stands on BDS?

        This really isn’t about what I want or don’t want. This isn’t about me. There will not be a situation at UMich where Jewish kids are genuinely unhappy. It won’t happen because the administration has interests in keeping them happy which are much greater than their interest in how the I/P dispute resolves.

        This is where Phil is absolutely right. BDS cannot become the liberal consensus without Jewish support.

      • Shingo on April 5, 2014, 5:18 pm

        Feelings and acts of prejudice or hostility towards an ethnic group in various degrees. That’s ethnic tension and that’s what’s happening.

        What you’re essentially arguing is that because Israel has been able to get away with it’c war crimes and crimes against humanity, that the status quo be maintained. That’s a pretty sick a silly argument. If one were to follow your logic to it’s conclusion, the US should have university that cater to KKK and white supremacist types seeing as it would be good for business, even if racism and prejudice is no longer acceptable or legal.

        The reality is that universities need to adapt to changing realities on the ground or risk being left branded as defenders of human rights abuse.

        I’m arguing for polite civilized presentation.

        No, you are arguing that people be polite to Israeli supporters and Zionists. You have made no condemnation about the insidious behaviour of pro Israeli lobbies and nefarious activities in campuses, nor the undue influence of political donors who are unaffected by the propriety of political debate.

        The rudeness, not the facts, is what creates the problem.

        No, the problem is Israel and rudeness is not the cause fo Israel’s war crimes, and violation of international law. If your logic has any basis, then one would have to argue that racial segregation and apartheid was caused by rudeness of those opposed to it.

        As for the view of Jews being more important than non-Jews and racial supremacy: Jews aren’t a race.

        Again, that is what Jews are being told to believe in Israel as do many of it’s supporters in the US.

        I think for the University the opinions of tuition paying students are more important than those on aid. I think the opinions of large donors are more important than either.

        So in other words, you believe that facts and truth should be shaped by the highest bidder. He with the largest cheque book gets to write history.

        Which is odd, because you denied this earlier.

        Charles Munger for example donated $130m to UMich and wanted better graduate school housing. He’s getting it.

        He wouldn’t if he stipulated that only white students were allowed access to it. Similarly, he shouldn’t be in a position to make demands about the political activism of students who are housed there.

        Stephen himself has no history of strong Zionist involvement but given those views what do you think are his likely opinions about BDS if he were to find out about it?

        Doesn’t matter either way. And what you are admitting is that this has nothing to do with rudeness or polite discourse in the end. These people are not going to be more agreeable to BDS whether it’s proponents are polite or not. So you are undermining your own thesis with this admission.

        Any university that is willing to bend to the will of donors and stifle free speech to placate them should be defunded by the State and brought up on charges.

        Mary Sue Coleman’s job is to keep the Ross’s of the world happy not to win independence for Palestine.

        Mary Sue Coleman’s job is subject to the laws of the land and thus respect freedom of religion, and the 1st amendment. Ditto for Alfred Taubman.

        There will not be a situation at UMich where Jewish kids are genuinely unhappy

        I would hope not, but that’s largely their own choice. If they chose to unconditionally support Israel and Israel’s crimes, they are the cause of their own unhappiness. As you have already admitted, they are not going to be happy about what pro Palestinian activists have to say, whether they are polite and civil or otherwise.

        BDS cannot become the liberal consensus without Jewish support.

        It already has Jewish support, just not the Jewish support that you agree with.

      • just on April 6, 2014, 9:16 am

        JeffB–I cannot wait to read how you’ve defended the rights of Muslim/Christian Arabs and other Other’s rights right here in America…

        $$$$$$$$ seems to be your underlying argument in your overarching argument for continued denial of free speech by students on campuses here, there and everywhere by people standing in solidarity with the Palestinian people and cause. Yep, and you don’t like BDS one whit, but you’d surely scream the loudest if someone tried to douse free speech for Jewish students anywhere. Maybe even louder than the ADL, etc.

      • JeffB on April 6, 2014, 9:39 am

        @Just

        I cannot wait to read how you’ve defended the rights of Muslim/Christian Arabs and other Other’s rights right here in America…

        For example in 2001 right after 9/11 I had a leadership position at a branch of the TA union at UCLA (part of the UAW). I along with others made sure we took care of muslim graduate students who were getting blowback from undergrads students and setup support services working in coordination with groups like the ISA. In other words I put institutional support on an informal structure.

        but you’d surely scream the loudest if someone tried to douse free speech for Jewish students anywhere.

        I haven’t ever called for boycotts of Arab or South Asian universities because of discrimination. Or for example I haven’t proposed doing to Venezuelan schools what ASA is proposing be done to Israel. Jews don’t have free speech rights most everywhere they used to live. That’s one of the countless reasons that Israel is vital.

      • Shingo on April 7, 2014, 2:58 am

        Or for example I haven’t proposed doing to Venezuelan schools what ASA is proposing be done to Israel.

        Venezuela is not ethnically cleansing anyone or occupying any land. Why would you?

        Jews don’t have free speech rights most everywhere they used to live.

        Like where for example? If Israel was vital, you’d be living there.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:11 am

        If you look at Campus activity across the world then you will see that it is certainly the Jewish students who are being systematically targeted for a countries policy that they do not control. The Palestinian narrative is to be seen as always being the under dog in any situation, even when they are winning campus battles across the world they somehow manage to hold onto their status.

        ” it’s out job to confront them and make them uncomfortable when they’re wrong . ” I am curious, do you confront the Syrian students of your university over the 200,000 civilians who have been killed?! Do you confront the Chinese students over Tibet?!

        Didn’t think so :)

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 7:29 am

        If you look at Campus activity across the world then you will see that it is certainly the Jewish students who are being systematically targeted for a countries policy that they do not control.

        Actually that is false. There is ZERO evidence that Jewish are being systematically targeted for a countries policy that they do not control.

        The Palestinian narrative is to be seen as always being the under dog in any situation, even when they are winning campus battles across the world they somehow manage to hold onto their status.

        As they should until those wins on campuses translate into wins on the world stage and in Palestine.

        I am curious, do you confront the Syrian students of your university over the 200,000 civilians who have been killed?!

        I thought the reason everyone was outraged about Syria was the fact that Syrians were being killed. I am curious, do you support Al Qaeda or Syrians?

        Though so. :)

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 8:04 am

        “Actually that is false. There is ZERO evidence that Jewish are being systematically targeted for a countries policy that they do not control. ”

        1) How can you possibly even for a second think that Jews are not being systematically targeted on University campuses when you can see in the news every day how Jews have been singled out on campuses across the globe.

        “As they should until those wins on campuses translate into wins on the world stage and in Palestine.”

        2) So it permissible to refer to the Palestinians as the underdogs even though they are not. You are permitting lying to students and policy makers to suit your agenda. This is the complete opposite of educating.

        “I thought the reason everyone was outraged about Syria was the fact that Syrians were being killed. I am curious, do you support Al Qaeda or Syrians? ”

        3) The sad thing about this last comment is that your ideas actually support both Syria and Al Qaeda because they are both Anti Israel and that is the side of the fence you choose to sit on with them.

        Thought so :)

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 8:50 am

        1) How can you possibly even for a second think that Jews are not being systematically targeted on University campuses when you can see in the news every day how Jews have been singled out on campuses across the globe.

        Because it is not happening on any campuses across the globe, which is why you keep failing miserably to provide on shred of evidence that this is happening.

        2) So it permissible to refer to the Palestinians as the underdogs even though they are not.

        Yes they are. They are the ones being occupies, mass murder, ethnically cleansed, having their homes demolished and their quest for statehood held to ransom by Israel and the US.

        Maybe when Palestine becomes a full state with a massive military, billions in aid from the US, US politicians falling over each other to swear devotion to Palestine,
        and hundreds of nukes, they will cease to be.

        <

        You are permitting lying to students and policy makers to suit your agenda. This is the complete opposite of educating.

        The only one lying here is you.

        The sad thing about this last comment is that your ideas actually support both Syria and Al Qaeda because they are both Anti Israel

        Wrong. Israel is pro Al Qaeda, at least that’s what Michael Oren admitted. So that must make you pro Al Qaeda too.

        But we already knew that :)

    • brenda on April 4, 2014, 2:02 pm

      you thought it was funny?

      • JeffB on April 4, 2014, 9:07 pm

        @Brenda

        Yes. Katie is good at her job. That was witty retort well presented. I appreciate good wit even from people on the other side.

      • Ellen on April 4, 2014, 11:26 pm

        JeffB, what do you think of the tweeter
        https://twitter.com/ThisIsPalestine/status/451779315852910593
        am the true face of the Palestinian national movement: murderous, fascist, sexist, homophobic, anti-Semitic, and Islamist. Deny my existence at your peril.

        This is the racist Zio calling itself Palestine attacking Kate. Is it good at it’s job?

        As for me, I found this person frightening.

      • JeffB on April 4, 2014, 11:54 pm

        @Ellen

        This is the racist Zio calling itself Palestine attacking Kate. Is it good at it’s job?

        Nope. Kinda over the top and silly. Gross exaggeration of what Kate’s cartoon meant.

      • brenda on April 5, 2014, 10:59 am

        I thought it was a political cartoon depicting the oppressive reality for occupied Palestine, and the neurotic reaction of comfortable American Jewish students — well, mostly comfortable, except for those pesky conscience-pricking picket signs…

        have you been engaged in hasbara for long? and if you don’t mind an even more personal question, do you receive any stipend, grant or salary for your activities? I realize it takes up a lot of your time, so how do you maintain yourself economically?

      • JeffB on April 6, 2014, 9:41 am

        @Brenda

        No I don’t get any money or any kind of official anything. People who support Zionism and Israel do so for the same kinds of feeling as people on the left. There is no conspiracy. As for maintaining myself economically I have a 6 figure job, which has long boring stretches and during those I comment on MW.

      • brenda on April 6, 2014, 12:11 pm

        JeffB, I am independently wealthy myself — ie. retired on Social Security and ‘green’ investments — so I have plenty of time to indulge my hobbies. US foreign policy and baiting hasbara. You are not the typical Israeli paid commenter, so I had to ask. It’s unusual and also a relief to run across an American debating the other side.

        next question: what is your opinion of paid hasbara, Israeli citizens posing as Americans, commenting on US political threads? Do you think this is an unfair intrusion into an important American political discussion?

      • Abierno on April 5, 2014, 12:01 pm

        Of the total budget for University of Michigan, private donations are
        approximately 2%. Could the issue be that such donors are tightly
        politically connected to the governing board? Also, that the forces
        supporting Jewish voices are powerful lobbies – AIPAC, Stand With Us
        and a host of smaller, ever relabeled groups. Then there are the
        federal complaints against the university that can be filed (as in the
        California state universities) which absorb significant resources. Finally, it is my understanding (perhaps incorrect) that there are considerable monies from the Israeli government flowing through some of these organizations as well as directives from the Reut
        Institute. Inquiring minds would like to see a graphic of all the
        organizations, beyond Hillel, contributing political/legal/financial/
        organizational resources to defeat discussion of I/P issues on US
        campuses. From my perspective, it would appear David vs Goliath
        to use a stereotypic trope.

    • German Lefty on April 4, 2014, 6:02 pm

      Or rather in a manner designed to create / inflame ethnic tensions on campus?

      The conflict is NOT between Jews and Palestinians BUT between Zionists and anti-Zionists. Jewish Zionists only make these ethnic tensions up by claiming that anti-Zionists are actually anti-Semites. That’s how they try to divert attention from the actual problem. Katie’s pictures aim at bringing the conversation back to the suffering of Palestinians.

      • JeffB on April 6, 2014, 9:48 am

        @German Lefty

        The conflict is NOT between Jews and Palestinians BUT between Zionists and anti-Zionists. Jewish Zionists only make these ethnic tensions up by claiming that anti-Zionists are actually anti-Semites.

        Once Jews get angry and upset at Black and Arab students that’s ethnic tensions. The fact that there is some underlying political cause is the norm in ethnic tension. There are always side political issues that could be discussed in a way that’s ethnically sensitive. BDS is not being ethnically sensitive so as a result a political disagreement is becoming ethnic tension. The existence of the political disagreement doesn’t negate the ethnic tension. The black / southern white political disagreement about how much the USA should be organized as a federation of state governments vs. how much it should be organized as a national government does not negate the existence of ethnic tension between whites and blacks.

        Katie’s pictures aim at bringing the conversation back to the suffering of Palestinians.

        Palestinians in Gaza don’t go to school at UMich. Their supporters do, and their supporters aren’t being bombed. They aren’t the actual problem when it comes to the behavior at UMich.

    • talknic on April 5, 2014, 4:16 am

      @ JeffB “1) How should Israel treat the Palestinians?”

      1) According to International Law, the UN Charter and relative Conventions and Treaties. I.e., by getting out of all non-Israeli territories in Palestine, taking its illegal settler idiots as it goes.

      “2) Should the debate about (1) be conducted in a civil polite manner?”

      2) (a) Does civil and polite include false accusations of Antisemitism, false accusations of self hating Jews, false accusations of wanting to destroy Israel, blackmailing institutions by threatening withdrawal of funds if they do attempt to engage in civil and polite discussion? Blackmailing institutions by threatening withdrawal of funds if they support the rule of International law?

      2) (b) Why be polite? The illegal acquisition of territory by war isn’t polite. Occupation isn’t polite. Slaughtering people to get at their territory isn’t polite. Lying to one’s own citizens and the world for 66 years isn’t polite, racism isn’t polite, apartheid isn’t polite. Illegally exploiting the resources of those occupied isn’t polite. Death by torture in an Israeli prison isn’t polite. Illegally selling one’s citizens ‘real estate’ in territory that does not yet belong to the State of Israel isn’t polite. Because they happen to be Jewish we should be polite to propaganda laden lairs spewing their vile hatred? Why? Being polite hasn’t stopped the Zionist Colonial program since it began 1897

      “Administrators at most Universities are not going to allow their campuses to become unfriendly places for Jewish students. A good cause does not justify rudeness. There is no reason (1) can’t be discussed in a way that is civil”

      3)(a) But it’s OK to become unfriendly places for people who support the rule of International Law … a slippery slope

      3)(b) Illegal Israeli actions in non-Israeli territory isn’t a good cause & doesn’t justify rudeness on the part of its supporters, doesn’t justify blackmailing institutions who support the rule of International Law

      3)(c) See 2) (a)

      • JeffB on April 6, 2014, 1:22 pm

        @talknic

        Does civil and polite include false accusations of Antisemitism, false accusations of self hating Jews, false accusations of wanting to destroy Israel, blackmailing institutions by threatening withdrawal of funds if they do attempt to engage in civil and polite discussion? Blackmailing institutions by threatening withdrawal of funds if they support the rule of International law?

        Nope. Those are examples of uncivil and impolite discussion.

        Being polite hasn’t stopped the Zionist Colonial program since it began 1897

        On balance Israel has been treated with far more rudeness than politeness over its existence. If anything the historical record proves that rudeness hasn’t worked. Moreover I’m not claiming that the shift from polite to rude will have any impact on Israel. What it will have an impact on is how BDS gets treated on campus. This is about UMich and other such campuses not about Israel.

        But it’s OK to become unfriendly places for people who support the rule of International Law … a slippery slope

        No it is not. Campuses should have free and open discussion about the role of international law with a variety of theories presented including the UN’s. I’m a little iffy about “support” on campuses since I don’t think politics of any sort should be encouraged, colleges should promote academics not politics. However, it is OK for campuses to become unfriendly places for people who support the rule of law rudely. Once it is both politics and not academics, and rude absolutely get it off campus.

        And before you ask the question. Absolutely if Zionism were becoming disruptive to academic functions I think it would need to be civil as well. So for example I think that stands of Zionism that reject the humanity of Palestinians, or grossly distort their behavior should be subject to civility restraints as well.

      • talknic on April 8, 2014, 8:24 am

        @ JeffB“Those are examples of uncivil and impolite discussion”

        They’re the norm against any criticism no matter how valid, of Israeli’s illegal activities in non-Israeli territory.

        “On balance Israel has been treated with far more rudeness than politeness over its existence”

        Why should any one be polite to a rogue state still engaged in illegal activities in non-Israeli territory? Far more appropriate would be ‘GO LIVE IN ISRAEL. F*CK OFF OUTTA PALESTINE YOU MORONS!’

        “If anything the historical record proves that rudeness hasn’t worked”

        Nothing tried has worked. Israel continues its crimes. Israel could withdraw from ALL non-Israeli territories for once, that has never been tried!

        “This is about UMich and other such campuses not about Israel”

        Were Israel not acting illegally in non-Israeli territories there wouldn’t be any need for BDS against Israel. It wouldn’t be an issue on campuses.

        “Campuses should have free and open discussion about the role of international law with a variety of theories presented including the UN’s.”

        Indeed and rich benefactors shouldn’t attempt to stifle those debates by withdrawing funding where they can, as they are now with BDS

        “I don’t think politics of any sort should be encouraged, colleges should promote academics not politics”

        International Law exists to control outrageously illegal political policies and the insane politicians who perpetuate them on behalf of rogue states. When International Law is stifled by a single veto vote at the UNSC bought by advocates of a Greater Israel, decent people will find other means, like BDS

        “However, it is OK for campuses to become unfriendly places for people who support the rule of law rudely”

        How about for people who’re rude and not supportive of the rule of law? Why should anyone be polite to people who purposefully and rudely support criminal behaviour?

        “.. if Zionism were becoming disruptive to academic functions I think it would need to be civil as well”

        Like bombing educational institutions in Gaza is somehow civil and not disruptive? WOW!

        “So for example I think that stands of Zionism that reject the humanity of Palestinians, or grossly distort their behavior should be subject to civility restraints as well”

        Sheeeeesh you’re gonna be busy. How about they simply get shot for being too close to their side of the security barrier, that should stop them from being uncivil.

      • JeffB on April 8, 2014, 8:42 am

        @talknic

        Why should any one be polite to a rogue state still engaged in illegal activities in non-Israeli territory?

        Because politeness is called for in situations as much as possible. Moreover we were discussing BDS being rude to Jewish students at Michigan not Israel.

        Nothing tried has worked. Israel continues its crimes. Israel could withdraw from ALL non-Israeli territories for once, that has never been tried!

        That’s right nothing has worked. The argument being made was that rudeness would work. If rudeness serves no purpose it shouldn’t be used.

        Indeed and rich benefactors shouldn’t attempt to stifle those debates by withdrawing funding where they can, as they are now with BDS

        Benefactors aren’t stifling the debates they are stifling the behavior. The debate is fine the rude conduct during it is not.

        How about for people who’re rude and not supportive of the rule of law? Why should anyone be polite to people who purposefully and rudely support criminal behaviour?

        It doesn’t matter what they support, this is an academic institution. As for rudely support, Zionist students who are rude should similarly be subject to civility constraints.

        Like bombing educational institutions in Gaza is somehow civil and not disruptive? WOW!

        The Jewish students at UMich aren’t bombing educational institutions at Gaza. That’s like conflating a biologists and a frog.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:32 am

        1) International law does not stipulate that the settlements are illegal only policy does. If you knew anything about the conflict you would know that land acquired in a defensive war makes your claims invalid,. You would also know that if land is annexed from a country (Egypt/Jordan) and they dont want the land back your claims also become invalid. You would know that the law stipulates that the occupying power cannot transfer its population to an area but if their population of their own accord wants to go to live in these occupied places your claims are invalid

        2) Regarding Zionist Colonial claims. a Colony is when a country sends its citizens to another country to claim that land. Now I ask you, if a Polish Jew in 1897 goes to Israel to escape the pogroms and Antisemitism in Europe that ultimately led to the Holocaust. Is this a colonial action? He has certainly not gone to take over Palestinian land for the Polish government. he has gone with no money and no weapons and there is no state of Israel. so think about it logically, obviously there is no colonialism in 1897 at all!

        3) If you are so against breaches International law then why are you focused on only 1 small, country and 1 UN resolution?? Why not focus your energies on countries like China and Russia.

        3b) I dont believe in light of how BDS have operated over the last 5 years that now is the time for you to start making accusations of blackmail.

      • RoHa on April 8, 2014, 5:20 am

        “a Colony is when a country sends its citizens to another country to claim that land. … He has certainly not gone to take over Palestinian land for the Polish government.”

        If he was a Zionist, he went to take over Palestine to create the Zionist state there. Not colonialism on your narrow definition, but still wrong.

        “he has gone with no money and no weapons”

        Money and weapons came from somewhere.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 7:41 am

        My version of colonialism meaning that a Country sends over their citizens to another country in order to occupy the land on their behalf is narrow??? Why dont you look at every empire and colony in the history of mankind before you make such statements.

        My point was that if you think a Jew who goes to Israel in 1897 is colonial behavior then you believe that all refugees from any country where they are persecuted are also colonial. Therefore even the Palestinians themselves are colonial!!!!

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 8:53 am

        My version of colonialism meaning that a Country sends over their citizens to another country in order to occupy the land on their behalf is narrow???

        Yes,

        Why dont you look at every empire and colony in the history of mankind before you make such statements.

        Why don’t you read Jabotinky’s statements about colonization of Palestine before you make such statements?

        My point was that if you think a Jew who goes to Israel in 1897 is colonial behavior then you believe that all refugees from any country where they are persecuted are also colonial.

        Then you still don’t have a point because as I already explained, there was no Israel in 1897.

        The Palestinians were already there therefore they cannot possibly be colonial.

      • eljay on April 8, 2014, 7:32 am

        >> Regarding Zionist Colonial claims. a Colony is when a country sends its citizens to another country to claim that land. Now I ask you, if a Polish Jew in 1897 goes to Israel to escape the pogroms and Antisemitism in Europe that ultimately led to the Holocaust. Is this a colonial action?

        1. There was no Israel in 1897.
        2. A single Polish Jew escaping to Palestine is not colonialism.
        3. Jews employing terrorism and ethnic cleansing to rid Palestine of much of its indigenous population, encouraging mass migration of Jews to Palestine, and establishing a “Jewish State” of and for people of the Jewish faith anywhere in the world – that’s Jewish colonialism.
        4. Israel’s theft and occupation of land outside of its borders and its colonization of that land by Jewish Israelis is Israeli colonialism (for the benefit of Israeli Jews).

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 8:40 am

        1. There was no Israel in 1897. Exactly, so your arguments on this are void
        2. A single Polish Jew escaping to Palestine is not colonialism. correct
        3. Jews employing terrorism and ethnic cleansing to rid Palestine of much of its indigenous population, encouraging mass migration of Jews to Palestine, and establishing a “Jewish State” of and for people of the Jewish faith anywhere in the world – that’s Jewish colonialism. There was a war between Jews and the Arabs from many countries not just the region of Palestine. There are 1 million arabs in this Jewish state wheras if there was a Palestinian state (which there has never been in history) there would not even be 1 Jewish person allowed. I am not about to aplogise that we created aJewish state 3 years after 6 million Jews were murdered. You want to talk about ethnic cleansing, try imagining for a second what it would mean if half of the Muslims or half of the Christians were killed over a 6 year period
        4. Israel’s theft and occupation of land outside of its borders and its colonization of that land by Jewish Israelis is Israeli colonialism (for the benefit of Israeli Jews). Actually, if you look at the Golan heights and many other areas these areas are occupied because of national security and if you dont believe that there is a national threat from all sides of Israel, welcome to the middle east

      • eljay on April 8, 2014, 8:50 am

        >> I am not about to aplogise that we created a Jewish state …

        You’re a Zio-supremacist – of course you aren’t about to apologize for Jewish terrorism; the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from their homes and lands; the establishment of an oppressive, colonialist, expansionist and supremacist “Jewish State” in Palestine; and the “Jewish State’s” 60+ years, on-going and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder.

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 7:38 am

        1) International law does not stipulate that the settlements are illegal only policy does.

        False. The ICJ ruled the settlements as illegal, not because of anyone’s policy, but because of Israel’s actions.

        If you knew anything about the conflict you would know that land acquired in a defensive war makes your claims invalid

        Actually it is you that doesn’t know anything about the conflict, given that Israel started the war and that Menachem Begin and many other Israeli leaders admit Israel started the war and that it was a war of choice.

        If you knew anything about international law, you would know that land acquired in any kind of war, being it defensive or not, is illegal.

        You would also know that if land is annexed from a country (Egypt/Jordan) and they dont want the land back your claims also become invalid.

        No, because that is a lie, which is why the UNSC stipulated that Israel had to withdraw from these territories and that their claims to any territory they captures in 1967 was invalid.

        You would know that the law stipulates that the occupying power cannot transfer its population to an area but if their population of their own accord wants to go to live in these occupied places your claims are invalid

        You would know that the ICJ rejected that argument and that this makes you either ignorant or a liar.

        2) Regarding Zionist Colonial claims. a Colony is when a country sends its citizens to another country to claim that land.

        Jabotinsky, one of the fathers of Israel, disagrees with you. He said that the Jews should COLONIZE Palestine and that the Arabs would oppose this COLONIZATION and that military force would be needed to impose this process of COLONIZATION.

        Now I ask you, if a Polish Jew in 1897 goes to Israel to escape the pogroms and Antisemitism in Europe that ultimately led to the Holocaust. Is this a colonial action?

        There was no Israel in 1897, so your question is moot.

        3) If you are so against breaches International law then why are you focused on only 1 small, country and 1 UN resolution?? Why not focus your energies on countries like China and Russia.

        Probably because one small country has breached International law for 65 years and flouted not 1 but dozens of UN Requisition. Your pathetic argument makes as much sense as Charles Manson arguing that what he did wasn’t that bad – he only orchestrated one itti bitty murder.

        3b) I dont believe in light of how BDS have operated over the last 5 years that now is the time for you to start making accusations of blackmail.

        What you believe clearly has no basis in reality.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 7:57 am

        1) Yes, the ICJ punished Israel where they had not punished other countries
        2) A defensive war can still be a war of choice. if all the surrounding countries are planning to invade you and you take preemptive action you are still fighting a defensive war.
        3) Am I lying that the land was Egypt’s and Jordan and they did not want the land back. didn’t think so. And incidentally nobody protested when the Egyptians and Jordanians were keeping the Palestinians in far worse conditions between 48-67 than Israel has done since.
        4) You really think that Israel has done more wrong than Russia and China. Than Iran and Iraq. You simply hate Israel! It shows through your posts that you will overlook all other issues and countries in order to get to your point with Israel. Whilst Palestinians are being brutally murdered and attacked in Syria, you still continue to focus only on Israel. very sad indeed.
        5) You dont believe that BDS have blackmailed people? welcome to planet earth my friend

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 8:45 am

        1) Yes, the ICJ punished Israel where they had not punished other countries </blockquote

        Wrong. The ICJ has not punished Israel seeing as they are in no position to issue punishment.

        2) A defensive war can still be a war of choice.

        No it cannot.

        if all the surrounding countries are planning to invade you and you take preemptive action you are still fighting a defensive war.

        As Menachem Begin admitted, no one was planning to invade Israel. Israel DECIDED to attack Egypt.

        3) Am I lying that the land was Egypt’s and Jordan and they did not want the land back.

        Yes you are lying. In 1988, Jordan handed sovereignty of the West Bank and EJ to the PLO.

        And incidentally nobody protested when the Egyptians and Jordanians were keeping the Palestinians in far worse conditions between 48-67 than Israel has done since.

        That’s because they were not keeping the Palestinians in far worse conditions between 48-67 than Israel has done since. After all, I can;t recall the land time Egypt carpet bombed Gaza a la Cast Lead.

        4) You really think that Israel has done more wrong than Russia and China.

        Yes. No one has dies in Crimea.

        Than Iran and Iraq.

        Israel armed Iran against Iraq you moron.

        You simply hate Israel!

        You simply are an Israeli propagandist. It shows through your posts that you will overlook all of Israel issues and in order to get to your point about Israel. Whilst Palestinians are being brutally murdered and attacked in Gaza and the West Bank, you still continue to try and divert attention everywhere else.

        Pathetic indeed.

        5) You dont believe that BDS have blackmailed people?

        I know they haven’t. Which is why all you can do is huff and puff about all the proof you have, while unable to deliver a shred of evidence.

  4. BrianEsker on April 3, 2014, 2:32 pm

    Very distorted cartoons, not that one expects anything different here. Drones in Gaza wouldn’t be an issue if Israel wasn’t being attacked day and night with rockets, mortars, and border shootings like happened within the last 24 hours. So that really doesn’t compare meaningfully with the fraudulent, sometimes violent campus shenanigans of BDS cultists.

    • eljay on April 3, 2014, 2:50 pm

      >> Very distorted cartoons, not that one expects anything different here. Drones in Gaza wouldn’t be an issue if Israel wasn’t being attacked day and night with rockets, mortars, and border shootings …

      Israel is being attacked day and night. Very distorted comment, not that one expects anything different from a Zio-supremacist.

      >> So that really doesn’t compare meaningfully with the fraudulent, sometimes violent campus shenanigans of BDS cultists.

      It’s always amusing when the cauldron calls the kettle ‘black’.

    • Shingo on April 3, 2014, 6:12 pm

      Drones in Gaza wouldn’t be an issue if Israel wasn’t being attacked day and night with rockets, mortars, and border shootings like happened within the last 24 hours.

      A rapist doesn’t get to claim he is being attacked when the victim scratches him during the rape.

      So that really doesn’t compare meaningfully with the fraudulent, sometimes violent campus shenanigans of BDS cultists.

      What fraudulent or campus shenanigans are you referring to? Please provide some evidence. BTW. How do you feel about the fraudulent shenanigans of Zionist cultists at Michigan University?

      • BrianEsker on April 4, 2014, 3:03 am

        “What fraudulent or campus shenanigans are you referring to?”

        The apartheid/Israel fraudulent blood-libel, Fake eviction notices, rigged student union takeovers, BDS votes pushed through student councils without proper quorums etc. etc. etc.

      • Shingo on April 4, 2014, 4:34 pm

        The apartheid/Israel fraudulent blood-libel

        Israel is an apartheid state, so it’s not a blood libel.

        Fake eviction notices

        Nothing fraudulent about it. The fame eviction notices said they were fake, so they were not pretending to be otherwise.

        rigged student union takeovers

        What take overs and what was rigged?

        BDS votes pushed through student councils without proper quorums etc. etc. etc.

        What proper forums should they take?

        And what is more fraudulent than voted being overturned under pressure from wealthy donors?

      • JeffB on April 4, 2014, 8:32 am

        A rapist doesn’t get to claim he is being attacked when the victim scratches him during the rape.

        A wonderful example of the sort of rhetoric that’s not normatively part of political debate and clearly is designed to just inflame tension rather than resolve policy issues. Rhetoric like this is not part the normative discourse when discussing an investment portfolio.

      • Shingo on April 4, 2014, 4:28 pm

        A wonderful example of the sort of rhetoric that’s not normatively part of political debate and clearly is designed to just inflame tension rather than resolve policy issues.

        A perfect example of Hasbara tactic of wanting to divert the attention from the topic and turn the whole discussion into the decorum and etiquette that everyone should adhere too.

        Rhetoric like this is not part the normative discourse when discussing an investment portfolio.

        Investment portfolios rarely involve mass murder, ethnic cleansing and war crimes moron,

      • JeffB on April 4, 2014, 11:36 pm

        @Shingo

        Investment portfolios rarely involve mass murder, ethnic cleansing and war crimes moron,

        Investment discussions rarely require that sort of language and behavior. You just proved my point.

        And BTW most large investment portfolios are filled with companies that are involved 3 steps removed from mass murder, environmental pollution, addiction, war… USA companies do business with the USA for example.

      • Shingo on April 5, 2014, 5:30 pm

        Investment discussions rarely require that sort of language and behavior. You just proved my point.

        No it doesn’t. It simply proves your analogy is absurd.

        Investments after all, are based not on current situations, but future trends. And based on future trends, Zionism is in retreat, not on the ascendancy.

        And BTW most large investment portfolios are filled with companies that are involved 3 steps removed from mass murder, environmental pollution, addiction, war… USA companies do business with the USA for example.

        But didn’t you just say that investment discussions rarely require that sort of language and behavior?

        You really are turning yourself inside out JeffB.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:58 am

        it’s war crimes, moron

        not war crimes moron

      • adele on April 4, 2014, 4:33 pm

        JeffB, I just want to sincerely thank you for the laughs. I hope you appreciate the accolades, no one does hasbara like you, you are in a class all your own. Might we call your genre Hallucinatory Hasbara?

        HA HA HA HA HA HA—–> “…clearly is designed to just inflame tension rather than resolve policy issues.” Are you describing Israel?

      • Woody Tanaka on April 4, 2014, 7:07 pm

        “Rhetoric like this is not part the normative discourse when discussing an investment portfolio.”

        And the oppression and human rights violations by the Zionists for generations should involve more passion than some mere investment.

      • edwin on April 5, 2014, 12:20 pm

        Oh all right.

        A torturer doesn’t get to claim he is being attacked when the victim scratches him during the torture session.

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-government-tortures-children-by-keeping-them-in-cages-human-rights-group-says-9032826.html

        JeffB –
        “A wonderful example of the sort of rhetoric that’s not normatively part of political debate”

        It was part of the debate over Israel’s best friend – Apartheid South Africa. It happens all the time when debating human rights issues with extreme human rights violators. What rock have you been living under?

        “Rhetoric like this is not part the normative discourse when discussing an investment portfolio.”

        What are you talking about? Are you out of your mind?

      • JeffB on April 6, 2014, 9:50 am

        @Edwin

        “Rhetoric like this is not part the normative discourse when discussing an investment portfolio.”

        What are you talking about? Are you out of your mind?

        UMich is about divestment, how to allocate UMich’s investment portfolio.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:38 am

        Is sending 4000 missiles into the South of Israel a victim scratching a rapist?????

        If you want evidence of fraudulent BDS activity then all you need to do is look at the organizations who they claim boycotted Israel, You should be able to find them as most of their stories are strategically posted twice on their websites timeline and in many cases the organizations they referred to also decided to boycott the Palestinian people aswell as the Israelis. and in several other cases the companies continue to work with private Israeli companies just not public ones, such as the dutch pension funds that divested from the 5 Israeli banks but still invest 100 million euro into the Israeli economy

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 7:41 am

        Is sending 4000 missiles into the South of Israel a victim scratching a rapist?????

        It is when Israel has fired about 30,000 infinitely deadlier bombs, shells, missiles and rockets at Gaza.

        If you want evidence of fraudulent BDS activity then all you need to do is look at the organizations who they claim boycotted Israel

        So what if they posted the twice?

        And what boycotts have decided to boycott the Palestinian people?

        and in several other cases the companies continue to work with private Israeli companies just not public ones, such as the dutch pension funds that divested from the 5 Israeli banks but still invest 100 million euro into the Israeli economy

        So did they divest from Israeli banks or did they not?

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 8:35 am

        “infinitely deadlier bombs” wow, now you are just in dreamland. very imaginative though. Where do you get the number 30,000 from??? Let me ask you something if a Qassam rocket hits your car, school, store would it not kill you and everyone around???

        “And what boycotts have decided to boycott the Palestinian people?” Any performing artist, church or other such organization that no longer visits or operates in the region at all is therefore also a loss for the Palestinian people. But I guess that’s ok because it serves the international narrative of hating Israel and not helping even one Palestinian!

        Posting twice and many more times is just a pathetic and deceiving way to try and lie to the world that you are making more of an impact than you actually are. It is part of the BDS ideology to lie so I guess it fits in nicely for them to this.

        “So did they divest from Israeli banks or did they not?”
        Do they have 100 million euro invested in Israeli companies or not????

    • Kay24 on April 4, 2014, 10:24 pm

      Zionists and their twisted logic…steal their lands, demolish their homes, control their water, destroy their trees, blockades, checkpoints, deaths by fences, fishing controlled, over 700 of their children in jail, among other brutal crimes, and then whine about rockets being sent over.
      Since the year 2001, thousands of rockets have been sent, and the number of Israelis killed: 64
      Operation Cast Lead: 1500 Palestinians killed, and this year nearly 20 Palestinians killed by the stinking fence. Israel provokes, steals, kills, and then whines when there is retaliation. The occupier can dish out, but cannot take it.
      Stop whining about the rockets, the Palestinians have MUCH more to lament about.
      Stop the brutal crimes against Palestinians, recognize their rights, and stop stealing their lands….stop giving them reasons to send those rockets.

      • Shingo on April 5, 2014, 4:07 am

        Stop whining about the rockets, the Palestinians have MUCH more to lament about.

        Not to mention that Israel have fired or dropped about 3 times as many bombs and shells, each of which is far deadlier than any primitive rocket.

      • Kay24 on April 6, 2014, 8:21 am

        But of course the apologists will not mention that, just like they always ignore the comments about illegal settlements. Note, they never refer to it, because they know they are breaking international laws, and are in the wrong. That topic is conveniently ignored by hasbaracudas.

      • JeffB on April 6, 2014, 9:51 am

        @kay24

        I don’t ignore it. I’ve pointed out time and time again that the UN’s position on calling what’s happening in the West Bank an occupation is a completely distortion of what occupation is supposed to mean. That’s not what’s going on. In terms of Gaza, the cartoon, there are no illegal settlements.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:43 am

        Where do you get your information about a rocket being primitive? dont try and bellitle the effect of an Iranian made rocket being fired from 2 miles away and landing in the middle of a populated area. not to mention that the rocket itself was intentionally fired from a civilian area such as a school or a church which is a double war crime. How can it be that Israel dont retaliate for years and when they do it is not necessarily with rockets but somehow you have come up with the number of 3 times the amount of Palestinian rockets.

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 7:47 am

        Where do you get your information about a rocket being primitive?

        From the simple fact they have no guidance systems.

        dont try and bellitle the effect of an Iranian made rocket being fired from 2 miles away and landing in the middle of a populated area.

        When only 1 in 300 land even close to a populated, doesn’t even explode and has a kill radius of about 12 inches, then yes I will bellitle the effect. The only way one of these will kill you is if it land directly on top of you.

        On the other hand, a 500lb bomb has a kill radius of 300 feet and is lazer guided.

        not to mention that the rocket itself was intentionally fired from a civilian area such as a school or a church which is a double war crime.

        That’s a lie on all counts.

        1. There is no evidence that any rockets have been fired from civilian areas such as a schools or churches.
        2. There are no churches in Gaza.

        How can it be that Israel dont retaliate for years and when they do it is not necessarily with rockets but somehow you have come up with the number of 3 times the amount of Palestinian rockets.

        How can it be that you believe that BS, when the statistics show that in almost every case of the calm being interrupted, Israel has initiated the violence?
        http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-kanwisher/reigniting-violence-how-d_b_155611.html

    • talknic on April 5, 2014, 4:24 am

      BrianEsker “Drones in Gaza wouldn’t be an issue …”

      … if Israel had adhere to it’s declared borders and obligations “as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. http://wp.me/pDB7k-Xk

      However it was never the intention of the Zionists http://wp.me/pDB7k-l5

  5. Katie Miranda on April 3, 2014, 2:39 pm
  6. W.Jones on April 4, 2014, 4:09 pm

    Kate failed to do the follow up for the picture in the lower right where the schoolgirl gets detained at night by the cops for disturbances and then gets her photo posted on nationalistic websites that monitor for cases of “PalArab” unruliness.

  7. hophmi on April 4, 2014, 4:59 pm

    If only Katie were honest. Israelis are also made to feel unsafe by Palestinian rocket attacks, and the fears of Jewish students on campus go beyond a political fear of a protest movement.

    I’m sorry you can only see the humanity on one side, Katie. It’s a shame.

    • Shingo on April 4, 2014, 6:05 pm

      Israelis are also made to feel unsafe by Palestinian rocket attacks, and the fears of Jewish students on campus go beyond a political fear of a protest movement.

      Just to clarify Hop.

      Are you suggesting Jewish students on campus in the US are afraid of being hit by Palestinian rockets?

      • Woody Tanaka on April 4, 2014, 7:09 pm

        “Are you suggesting Jewish students on campus in the US are afraid of being hit by Palestinian rockets?”

        Yes, he is. They’ve begun to deploy The horrific InterContinental Jewish Student Missile…

      • hophmi on April 7, 2014, 12:44 pm

        Just to clarify, Shingo. Are you suggesting proponents of BDS on college campuses are afraid of drone strikes?

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:46 am

        It is very funny. You realize on the one hand how nonsensical it is that an Israeli should be worried about a Palestinian act that takes place thousands of miles away whilst on the other hand maintaining that they should be made to feel uncomfortable for a conflict that takes place so far away. You are tripping over your own logic here my dear

      • Shingo on April 8, 2014, 7:49 am

        You realize on the one hand how nonsensical it is that an Israeli should be worried about a Palestinian act that takes place thousands of miles away whilst on the other hand maintaining that they should be made to feel uncomfortable for a conflict that takes place so far away.

        You do realize that this sentence is completely and utterly incoherent?

        You need to learn how to construct a sentence before you can even begin to tackle anything as tricky as “logic” here my dear.

    • eljay on April 4, 2014, 6:36 pm

      >> If only Katie were honest. … I’m sorry you can only see the humanity on one side, Katie. It’s a shame.

      hophmeee chastises Katie for her lack of honesty and humanity…and then proceeds to expand on how Israelis and Jews are made to feel unsafe, but doesn’t do the same for Palestinians and Muslims.

      How dishonest. How shameful. How typical.

    • Sumud on April 6, 2014, 2:30 pm

      Around 25 Israeli deaths in 15 years of rocket attacks, 400+ Israelis killed in car accidents annually.

      Israelis should be terrified of driving, not rockets.

      More than 3000 Gazans killed by Israeli rockets, missiles, flechettes etc. since 2005 when Israel supposedly withdrew from Gaza.

      War criminals and monsters of the sort that engineer a situation like Gaza are immoral freaks without humanity.

    • Katie Miranda on April 7, 2014, 12:55 am

      Funny you should mention one side, hophmi, because I actually grew up on that other side. As a youngster, I was firmly convinced that all Arabs and Muslims wanted to push me into the sea for the simple fact that I was a Jew. So I identify with the silly college students who are afraid of Palestinians because I see a part of younger self in them. That fear was pretty easy to get over once I visited Palestine for the first time and realized all the Zionist tales I’d been taught as a child were a bunch of garbage. Jewish students could get over their histrionic kufiyya fears by having tea and having a listen with a Palestinian family.

      • Anti-BDS on April 8, 2014, 4:50 am

        Katie, the entire history of Zionism and its principles were nullified because you had tea with a Palestinian family? That must have been one epic cup of tea you had there!

      • Eva Smagacz on April 8, 2014, 4:59 am

        What are Zionist principles, Anti-BDS?

      • James North on April 8, 2014, 8:33 am

        “Anti-BDS” is an untrained new recruit sent over by Hasbara Central.

      • eljay on April 8, 2014, 8:41 am

        >> Katie, the entire history of Zionism and its principles were nullified because you had tea with a Palestinian family?

        She didn’t say that the cup of tea washed away Zio-supremacism – she said it washed away the irrational fears that it had instilled in her.

        Zio-supremacism is clearly alive and as hateful and immoral as ever.

  8. jon s on April 6, 2014, 6:54 am

    If Katie Miranda really wanted to show “both sides”, she could portray, opposite the terrified Palestinian mother and child -with whom I can sympathize – an Israeli mother and child in, say, Sderot, terrified by terrorist rocket attacks.

    • Shingo on April 6, 2014, 8:36 am

      If Katie Miranda really wanted to show “both sides”, she could portray, opposite the terrified Palestinian mother and child -with whom I can sympathize – an Israeli mother and child in, say, Sderot, terrified by terrorist rocket attacks.

      Actually, if you wanted to see both sides, the Palestinian mother would be standing out in the open, with nowhere to hide, holding a dead child with limbs blown off – in the background would be the rubble of what used to be her village. While the Israeli mother and child in Sderot would be safe in their basement, or if they are lucky, in a house with a roof reinforced to withstand the unlikely hit by a rockets.

    • puppies on April 6, 2014, 1:09 pm

      @jons – The illegal immigrants to Najd were not invited by the owners of the place. Use known place names if you want them to be understood outside invented-language circles, had to search for “Sederoth”. These illegal immigrants were sent there by an illegal government that is waging total war since 1947. The illegal immigrants there and their government are knowingly endangering the life of minors by taking them there (and should be sued for it.)

  9. JeffB on April 6, 2014, 2:07 pm

    @Brenda

    next question: what is your opinion of paid hasbara, Israeli citizens posing as Americans, commenting on US political threads? Do you think this is an unfair intrusion into an important American political discussion?

    I don’t think this exists in any meaningful way. If it did exist then that would constitute illegal foreign lobbying (an actual violation of FARA) and those Americans assisting it (if they existed in your hypothetical) should rightfully be charged. Israelis have every right to express their opinion but not to thwart America’s internal process. I know the FBI and CIA are working together on FARA violating American groups particularly with respect to China. Frankly I’m not sure why Israel would bother violating the law. The Israeli Lobby is fairly strong without having to break any laws.

  10. alizarin on April 7, 2014, 3:06 am

    Shame on boycotters for invalidating my Jewish American princess narrative!

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