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‘I remember the knee in the crosshairs, bursting open’ – Israeli snipers boast of shooting ‘ducks’ in Gaza

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Two days ago (Friday) a piece came out in Haaretz by Hilo Glazer, featuring stories from five anonymous snipers who told how they gunned down unarmed protesters at the March of Return near the Gaza perimeter fence.

These accounts are a jaw-dropper, constituting some of the most enraging as well as depressing readings I can recall. The language of the perpetrators of these massacres is testimony to the moral depravity of these young soldiers, who still seem to believe they are fulfilling a sacred duty to defend their country, as well as a damning account of the state and society that supports them and their crimes.

These are not shamed confessions: the snipers appear to be boasting about their “hits”, in competition over the number of knees they can claim to have shot to pieces. And Israeli officials often say that their army is the “most moral army in the world.”

Let’s start with the knees.

 

Knees are a hard thing to rack up

“I kept the casing of every round I fired,” says one of them. “I have them in my room. So I don’t have to make an estimate – I know: 52 definite hits.”

Is 52 a lot?, Ido Glazer asks

“I haven’t really thought about it. It’s not hundreds of liquidations like in the movie ‘American Sniper’: We’re talking about knees. I’m not making light of it, I shot a human being, but still …”

Where do you stand in comparison to others who served in your battalion?

“From the point of view of hits, I have the most. In my battalion they would say: ‘Look, here comes the killer.’ When I came back from the field, they would ask, ‘Well, how many today?’ You have to understand that before we showed up, knees were the hardest thing to rack up. There was a story about one sniper who had 11 knees all told, and people thought no one could outdo him. And then I brought in seven-eight knees in one day. Within a few hours, I almost broke his record.”

 

Not “shooting and crying”

Glazer notes that this is not what is known as “shooting and crying”, a reference to the book that came out in the wake of the 1967 war called “The Seventh Day” (Amos Oz was a main interviewer there), where kibbutzniks unburdened themselves with stories from the war. This kind of soul-searching vein used to be considered a sign of moral fortitude in Israel, because our soldiers don’t just shoot – they also cry, and therefore we are the most moral in the world. No, not here. Glazer:

“More than half a century later, the lament of soldiers returning from the battlefield is still being heard, but at least according to the voices quoted here, their ideological and moral foundations have turned inside out. The soul-searching over the cost in blood has been replaced by criticism of the army’s weakness and the feeling that it is shackling its fighters.”

Neither is it “Breaking the Silence”, Glazer notes, referring to the organization that gathers combat soldier stories in order to create moral opposition to the 1967 occupation:

“They are not out to ‘break the silence’ or to atone for their deeds, only to relate what happened from their point of view.”

The IDF transforms guys into baboons

Indeed, there is hardly any sense of contrition in these accounts. They also celebrate their hits.

Glazer notes that “a video clip that circulated in 2018 showed a Palestinian approaching the fence and being shot by a sniper, as the soldiers celebrated the direct hit with shouts of ‘Right on!’ and ‘What a fab clip!’”.

Freeze frame of video shot through rifle scope of Israeli sniper shooting unarmed Palestinian on Gaza border and then celebrating. 2018.

It turned out that the clip had been filmed in December 2017, before the March of Return began. The video filmed through the sniper scope showed the targeting of a completely motionless protester. The targeting of unarmed protesters who pose no immediate danger with live ammunition is of course a war crime. But according to the snipers, there was a logic in targeting them when they were motionless:

“In that period [early during the protests], you were allowed to shoot a major inciter only if he was standing still,” one sniper says. “That means, even if he was walking around calmly, shooting was prohibited, so we wouldn’t miss and waste ammunition”.

Imagine that. By normal laws and ethics, a person has to be mortally threatening you for you to target them with lethal ammunition. But here it’s all reversed. They need to be standing still, not even “walking around calmly” – because what’s important is not to waste those bullets when shooting what they call “ducks”. Never mind those legs, those lives, those “ducks” – just don’t waste bullets.

In the wake of that video, Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman opined that the soldiers should get a medal for fulfilling their military duty – while allowing that they should not have filmed the celebrations. That same logic is inherent in the snipers cited by Glazer. One sniper says that the soldiers’ celebration in the video merely “attests to a lack of professionalism and too much enthusiasm”.

“On the other hand, I think it’s human,” he says. “When you have a certain goal, even if you are shooting arrows at a target, obviously there’s joy at the hit. The soldiers’ mistake was in their behavior. Let them laugh somewhere in the back, but don’t make a clip of it. There’s such a thing as appearances, too.”

Glazer wonders: “Do you have to celebrate? Isn’t there some other way?”

Sniper: “No. Take the most baboonish guy you know – and that’s what the IDF does, transforms kids into baboons – and try to stop him from telling about his first time. It’s chaos there, everyone is shooting, making hits – you expect that he won’t open a bottle of champagne? He has fulfilled himself just now, it’s a rare moment. Actually, the more he does it, the more indifferent he’ll become. He will no longer be especially happy, or sad. He’ll just be.”

 

Pornography of violence

So, for these Israeli snipers, targeting an unarmed, motionless Palestinian protester who poses no immediate danger is like sex, and you can’t stop a sniper from celebrating that first time. Destroying people’s lives by blasting their knees is apparently exciting and shows one’s manhood, and there’s that count again:

“On that day [May 14th 2018, when the US Embassy in Jerusalem was inaugurated] our pair had the largest number of hits, 42 in all. My locator wasn’t supposed to shoot, but I gave him a break, because we were getting close to the end of our stint, and he didn’t have knees. In the end you want to leave with the feeling that you did something, that you weren’t a sniper during exercises only. So, after I had a few hits, I suggested to him that we switch. He got around 28 knees there, I’d say.”

There are also big expectations to fulfil:

“Standing above me is the battalion commander, to my left is his deputy, to the right the company commander – soldiers all around me, the whole world and their wife are watching me in my first go. Very stressful. I remember the view of the knee in the crosshairs, bursting open.”

These snipers know that their shots can “detach a leg”. Glazer cites a sniper who says he used M24 and Barak (HTR-2000) rifles: “With the Barak, if you shoot someone in the knee, you don’t incapacitate him – you detach his leg. He could die from loss of blood.”

There are also stories of such deaths. Glazer cites Tuly Flint, a health officer in the reserves, who describes a sniper from an elite unit who aimed at a demonstrator’s knee but hit too high, and the demonstrator died from loss of blood:

“That soldier, a sniper who was very dedicated to his mission, describes watching the demonstrator bleed to death. He can’t forget the man’s screaming not to be left alone”.

And it seems they can’t get enough of this: “Can I add another knee for this afternoon?”, they sometimes ask the commander.

 

A sniper asks for permission to ‘blow open’ the head of a 14-year old in front of his family 

One of the soldiers tells about asking if he could blow the head of kid open:

“After some time…  in a debriefing, I said: ‘Let me just once take down a kid of 16, even 14, but not with a bullet in the leg – let me blow his head open in front of his whole family and his whole village. Let him spurt blood. And then maybe for a month I won’t have to take off another 20 knees.’ That is shocking mathematics on the brink of the unimaginable – but when you don’t use your capabilities it’s not clear what you’re trying to do there. You ask me what my mission was? Walla, it’s hard for me answer you. What was considered a success from my point of view? Even the number of knees I took out wasn’t dependent on me, it derived from the number of ‘ducks’ that chose to cross the line.”

But to kill a kid at random? Do you really think that’s the solution?

“Obviously, we shouldn’t liquidate kids. I was saying that to make a point: that if you kill one you might be sparing 20 others.”

So these snipers think they are restrained, and being restrained by the army. By this logic they could have actually saved lives, by killing a ‘duck’, and it would be humane.

Screenshot from video of Palestinian footballer Mohammed Khalil filming himself the moment he is shot in his knee by Israeli forces, putting an end to his career. April 2018.

Targeting “major inciters”

“Major inciter” is a term used to justify targeting with lethal ammunition of an unarmed protester, because they are supposedly leading the protest and are thus key to stopping it. A sniper explains:

“Major inciters are, for example, people who stand around in the back, arranging things. They are not necessarily a target, but to let them know that we see what they’re doing, I would shoot in the air around them. You know, the one who arms others is not a concrete threat to me, at least not directly, but he makes things happen. So to hit him is a problem, but also not to hit him is a problem. That’s why the moment he gets tired of activating others and starts to take an active part in the chaos, he’ll be the first one we hit, because he’s the most important in terms of the group around him. He’s the key to stopping the flare-up.”

And of course the “air around” such a “major inciter” can be bustling with other Palestinian civilian unarmed protesters, and if the sniper happens to hit one of them – well, that’s just collateral.

Israel maintains that the shooting is basically towards the legs, and that the directives have also been changed in time, to shoot lower than the knee. The narrative says that if you shot higher it was a mistake. But one of the snipers says that “there are snipers, not many, who ‘choose’ to make mistakes”. As if blowing a person’s leg off was not enough, you can always make that “mistake”, and– too bad. And when you fire such lethal ammunition at civilian crowds, also real mistakes can happen, and kids die. The health officer is cited telling about such a case:

“There are awful, dreadful stories about soldiers who aimed at a demonstrator and hit someone else. I know someone who took aim at one of the leaders of a demonstration, who was standing on a box and urging the people to keep marching ahead. The soldier aimed at his leg, but at the last moment the man moved and the bullet missed him. Instead, he hit a little girl, who was killed on the spot.”

The sniper who targeted “major inciters” inadvertently tells us the truth about the nature of these protests:

“You don’t hit those who whip up the crowd because of what they’re doing. It doesn’t come from an emotional place of ‘He’s the one who’s causing the uprising, so let’s take him down.’ This isn’t a war, it’s a Friday afternoon D.O. [disruption of order].”

Exactly. It’s not a war. It’s a largely non-violent civilian protest. But Israel is framing it as a war against terrorists, to justify its war crimes (even if there isn’t a war).

 

Shooting sheep

This reading is stomach-churning, it really is. It goes on and on. And it’s basically all descriptions of murderous Israeli policy, which most Israelis accept. But you know what isn’t ok for the Israeli army? Shooting a sheep. Glazer cites a story where a sniper was called in for patrol because of shepherds, who he says “work for Hamas and Islamic Jihad”:

“Even when there is no demonstration and everything seems calm, they rush you to the fence with the patrol when shepherds approach it. You have to understand, these are not innocent shepherds, they work for Hamas and Islamic Jihad in order to drive you crazy.”

And the solution to this “shepherd-terrorist” problem? Shooting a sheep:

“One day, one of the noncoms said to me, ‘Enough, we can’t go on like this, let’s take down one of his sheep, it’s worth a few thousand.’ Think about what leads a soldier, a musician from a good high school, the last kind of guy you’d say is out for blood, to get on the radio with the lookout and say, ‘Do you see a sheep, to the north? You’re going to see it fall.’ After that, the shepherd didn’t return. What’s the conclusion? The deterrence worked.”

The Israeli army responded to the Haaretz article, saying that “in the case where improper shooting at a sheep took place… the company’s deputy commander was tried for breaching military discipline and sentenced to seven days’ detention.”

If only Palestinians had the same rights as sheep.

H/t Dave Gaskell

Jonathan Ofir

Israeli musician, conductor and blogger / writer based in Denmark.

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28 Responses

  1. Misterioso on March 8, 2020, 2:00 pm

    Barbarism, inhumanity, racism and fascism beyond words.

    Here’s another example:

    http://jfjfp.com/the-campaign-about-doctors-and-torture-in-israel-five-years-on/

    “Jews for Justice for Palestinians, March 4, 2020”

    “Israeli doctors continue to enable Israeli intelligence agency’s torture industry”

    “Dr. Ruchama Marton writes in the BMJ (British Medical Journal) 11 February 2020:”

    Dear Editor,

    “As a follow-up to previous BMJ correspondence on this subject, I wish to add that the active complicity of Israeli doctors with torture in Israel continues. (1) This is not only doctors attached to the intelligence agency Shin Bet or working in the Israel Prison Service, but also doctors in emergency rooms across Israel who write false medical reports. I write as a doctor and as founder of Physicians for Human Rights Israel (PHRI), whose detailed case studies ‘Ticking Bombs’ (2007) and ‘Doctoring the evidence, abandoning the victim’ (2011), assembled irrefutable evidence for these practices. (2) (3)

    “These abuses go back many years. In June 1993 I organized an international conference in Tel Aviv on behalf of PHRI regarding torture in Israel. At the conference, I highlighted a Shin Bet medical eligibility form discovered by chance by an Israeli journalist. The Shin Bet doctor was asked to certify whether the prisoner could be kept in isolation, whether they could be tied up, could be hooded, and whether he could be made to stand for prolonged periods of time. This was in effect a ‘fitness for torture’ form to be signed by the doctor. Four years later, a second form, suspiciously similar to the first, came to light, yet Shin Bet always denied that it had ever existed. At the time PHRI asked the Israel Medical Association (IMA) to take action, as they are mandated to do as a member of the World Medical Association (WMA)- the WMA’s Declaration of Tokyo forbids any doctor to collaborate with torture, and directs them to speak out and protect the patient when torture is suspected. The IMA would not act.

    “Our findings were published in the book ‘Torture: Human Rights, Medical Ethics and the case of Israel’ (1995) whose sale in Israel appears to be banned.

    “26 years later, in late 2019, we witness the same course of events in the case of a 44 year old Palestinian man Samer Arbeed [Samer Arbid] whose interrogation left him hospitalised in a life-threatening state, in coma on a respirator and in kidney failure. No doctor who saw him, nor the Israeli Medical Association, protested about his torture.

    “Moreover, doctors in emergency rooms across Israel write false medical opinions in accordance with the demands of Shin Bet, and have done so for years. PHRI documented such cases in ‘Doctoring the evidence, abandoning the victim’ (2011).

    “The Shin Bet medical eligibility form allows for: sleep prevention; exposure of prisoners to extreme temperatures; beatings; being tied for long periods in ‘stress’ positions; being forced to stand for long periods; being hooded for prolonged periods; sexual humiliation; solitary confinement; no contact with family or lawyer. This kind of ‘eligibility’ leads the prisoner directly into the torture chamber — and the doctor knows this. Moreover his presence in the unit confers on the interrogators the moral authority of the medical profession and gives them confidence. In this role he has always been shielded by the IMA. But a doctor who cooperates with Israel’s torture industry is complicit in that very industry. If a prisoner dies during interrogation, the doctor is an accomplice to his or her murder. A recent report by Adameer, the Palestinian Prisoner Support and Human Rights Association, gives a graphic account of the kinds of torture and ill-treatment that continue. (4)

    “In Nazi Germany and Japan during World War 2, in South America in the 1970s/80s, in USA post-9/11 and elsewhere, history has demonstrated how doctors can become loyal servants of regimes, aiding and abetting their human rights crimes. The same goes for Israel.”

    Dr Ruchama Marton

    1. Summerfield D. The campaign about doctors and torture in Israel five years on.
    BMJ 2014;349:g4386. http://dx.doi.org/10.1136/bmj.g4386
    2. “Ticking Bombs”. Public Committee Against Torture in Israel/ Physicians for Human Rights Israel. 2007. http:www. stoptorture.org.il/en-node/69.
    3. Doctoring the Evidence, Abandoning the Victim: the Involvement of Medical Professionals in Torture and Ill-treatment in Israel. Public Committee Against Torture in Israel/ Physicians for Human Rights-Israel. stoptorture.org.il 2011.
    4. Adameer Prisoner Support and Human Rights Association. Adameer collects hard evidence on torture and ill-treatment committed against Palestinian detainees. 2019. adameer.org.

  2. JohnSmith on March 8, 2020, 2:13 pm

    War criminals as sickening as any Nazis in World War II.

  3. Boomer on March 8, 2020, 2:43 pm

    As the Psalmist says:

    “Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.”

    https://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

    • Ismail on March 9, 2020, 10:56 am

      The full quote is:

      “…Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, blessed is he who repays you as you have done to us. Blessed is he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.”

      So it’s about retribution.

      Me, I’m more of a “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” kind of guy.

  4. eljay on March 8, 2020, 5:28 pm

    Boast about being “most moral”, be less bad than the worst. It’s the Zionist way.

  5. Elizabeth Block on March 9, 2020, 9:22 am

    I’ve wondered for years what they meant by “most moral army.” Now I know – it’s shooting and crying.

    Years ago I asked Margaret Macmillan, the WWI historian, whether, if the Palestinians had from the start adopted, and followed, a policy of nonviolent resistance, they would have gotten anywhere. She said no. She was right.

    And I heard Kapil Komireddi, the author of “Malevolent Republic,” a history of India, use the phrase “homicidal Hindu self-pity.” This is homicidal Jewish self-pity.

    • Mooser on March 9, 2020, 11:50 am

      ” – it’s shooting and crying.”

      I didn’t notice any crying by the Israeli shooters in the article.
      I could easily think these articles in Haaretz are designed to encourage the two-state solution. After all, being in a democratic one-state with the people whose legs you shot off might be embarrassing for the shooters and their families.

  6. Misterioso on March 9, 2020, 9:52 am

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-the-israeli-army-doesn-t-have-snipers-on-the-gaza-border-it-has-hunters-1.8637587

    “The Israeli Army Doesn’t Have Snipers on the Gaza Border. It Has Hunters”
    By Gideon Levy, Haaretz, March 7/2020

    “They’re the best of our boys. One is a ‘musician from a good high school,’ another a ‘boy scout’ who majored in theater.’ They’re the snipers who have shot thousands of unarmed protesters along the Gaza border fence.

    “In the Gaza Strip there are 8,000 permanently disabled young men as a result of the snipers’ actions. Some are leg amputees, and the shooters are very proud of that. None of the snipers interviewed for Hilo Glazer’s frightening story in Haaretz (March 6) has any regrets. If they are feeling at all apologetic it’s because they didn’t spill more blood. One was mocked in his battalion with ‘here comes the killer.’ They all act like murderers. If their actions don’t show it – more than 200 dead as a result of them – then their statements prove that these young men have lost their moral compass. They are lost. They will go on to study, to have careers and to raise families – and will never recover from their blindness. They disabled their victims physically, but their own disabilities are more severe. Their souls were completely twisted. They will never again be moral individuals. They are a danger to society. They lost their humanity, if they ever had it, on the shooting berms facing the Gaza Strip. They are the sons of our friends and the friends of our sons, the young people from the apartment across the hall. Look how they talk.

    “The soldiers’ talk we once knew – the collection of testimonies on the Six-Day War published in English as ‘The Seventh Day’ – turned into the talk of butchers. Perhaps that’s for the best – we have spared ourselves some hypocrisy – but it’s hard not to be shocked at the depths to which we have sunk. They recalled the number of knees they shot. ‘I brought in seven-eight knees in one day. Within a few hours, I almost broke his record.’ ‘He got around 28 knees.’ They shot at unarmed young men and women who were trying in vain to struggle for their freedom, an issue that couldn’t be more just. ‘The regular scenario is supposed to be that you hit, break a bone – in the best case, break the kneecap – within a minute an ambulance comes to evacuate him, and after a week he gets a disability pension.’

    “Not enough for you? ‘The objective is to cause the inciter minimal damage, so he will stop doing what he’s doing. So I, at least, would try to aim at a fattier place, in the muscle region.’ Still not enough? ‘If you mistakenly hit the main artery of the thigh instead of the ankle, then either you intended to make a mistake or you shouldn’t be a sniper. There are snipers, not many, who ‘choose’ to make mistakes.’

    “They knew who they were facing. They don’t even refer to their victims as ‘terrorists,’ only ‘inciters.’ One compared them to members of a youth movement.

    “’Even if you don’t know their precise ‘ranks,’ you can tell by the charisma who the group leader is.’

    “They chose their victims by their charisma, with a sniper’s precision. Their ‘leadership aura’ has destined young men to a life of disability in the cage that is Gaza. But that was not enough. They become bloodthirsty as only young incited people can be. They wanted more blood, not just blood, a child’s blood. Not just a child’s blood, but in front of his family.

    “‘Let me just once take down a kid of 16, even 14, but not with a bullet in the leg – let me blow his head open in front of his whole family and his whole village. Let him spurt blood. And then maybe for a month I won’t have to take off another 20 knees.’

    “They wanted blood from a boy’s head only to spare themselves the need to take down 20 more knees. They identified their victims’ age by their shirts: Dress shirts for the older ones, T-shirts for the youngest.

    “None was court-martialed. Correction: One got seven days in military jail for shooting a sheep. Soldiers in the world’s most moral army don’t shoot sheep. With 200 dead and 8,000 wounded, they think ‘the restraints on us are shameful.’ That is their shame. They are our shame. They, and their commanders. They and the army that orders them to shoot at protesters as if they were ‘ducks who chose to cross the line.’

    “People who shoot ducks aren’t snipers. They’re hunters.”

    • ejran on March 10, 2020, 3:09 pm

      Why is this not shared widely? Why aren’t major newspapers talking about it? Why isn’t the whole world condemning it in disgust and anger? Why and how in the world is Israel getting away with this?

      If there is something I sometimes really dislike about mondoweiss, it is the tone of “here’s just another example of Israel’s inhumanity”. It’s a tone that is no longer shocked, a tone that is saying, “this is expected”, or “what else can you expect of Israel?”. A tone that is almost numb. As writers, we need to stay shocked. We need to communicate this shock. We need to relate these stories to the world with fresh eyes, eyes that have not already read and seen so much inhumanity, so that readers themselves won’t go numb. Yes, the statements are called enraging, depressing, jaw-dropping. But sometimes I feel like passing judgments is in itself a form of watering down. If the facts are too horrific, they speak for themselves. Part of me is tired of coming here and reading about how fascist and barbaric Israel and its army are, because something about how easily it is written turns my stomach. It feels like it’s talking to those who “already know”, those who are on our “side”. I sometimes miss the earnest, urgent sobriety of one who is addressing the whole world, who is saying, listen to the facts. The facts are shocking enough, and I will leave it to you to put the adjectives. Because this is absolutely horrifying and it’s not ok, not ok, not ok, no ok that it just goes down in an article on a website. It’s not enough for us to comment and say, truly the most “moral” army in the world. It’s not enough to sigh, to feel like one cannot expect worse any more. No, no, no. These are people that are being killed and maimed- my sister, brother, mother, father, child. These are unthinkable crimes and the whole world must be outraged. How do you do that? How do you get the world to be outraged? How do you stop beautiful human beings from turning into digits of fired knees?

  7. Maghlawatan on March 9, 2020, 5:46 pm

    Hannah Arendt said that the sole new piece of historical
    philosophy which the Zionists created of their own new experiences was “a nation is a group of people..held together by a common enemy.” ” An absurd doctrine.

    Palestine Jewry would eventually separate itself from the larger body of world Jewry and in its isolation develop into a new people.

    She was on the ball.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/MairavZ/status/1235698586324586496

  8. Misterioso on March 9, 2020, 8:53 pm

    @Maghlawatan

    Thank you for the link to Bernie Sanders and his supporters. Most moving.

    • catalan on March 9, 2020, 10:36 pm

      “Thank you for the link to Bernie Sanders and his supporters. Most moving.”
      Bernie lost again but his campaign collected incredible amounts of money, more than any other candidate. I guess now he can spend his final years as one of those filthy rich people whom he detested and was jealous of during his entire life. Good for him – and for America, where even a failed carpenter can become a multimillionaire.

      • bcg on March 10, 2020, 10:30 am

        So on the topic of IDF sharpshooters shooting Palestinians in the knees…?

      • catalan on March 10, 2020, 2:23 pm

        “So on the topic of IDF sharpshooters shooting Palestinians in the knees…?“ bcg
        It’s a tragedy. But unavoidable. The protesters were explicitly seeking to enter Israel unlawfully and violently set up an Islamic state. In the process they would have killed Israelis, another explicit goal. So the army can either shoot to kill or to maim. That’s a horrible choice either way and I have no ethical answer.

      • Misterioso on March 10, 2020, 3:10 pm

        @Catalan

        Sigh.
        Truly pathetic, but consistent, i.e., an utterly irrelevant and inane comment!

      • Mooser on March 10, 2020, 7:35 pm

        “Truly pathetic, but consistent, i.e.,”

        Consistent? He sure is. “catalan” follows all the protocols to the letter.

      • catalan on March 10, 2020, 8:46 pm

        “Truly pathetic, but consistent, i.e., an utterly irrelevant and inane comment!”
        You are basically saying, I am right and you are wrong. This tactic works on the internet – but in real life Bernie is about to announce he is suspending his campaign after badly losing Michigan. Do you not see that bullying and abuse can score you points here but you will keep losing in real life? At least now we have an answer. Twitter and the blogs are completely not representative of the larger humanity.

      • eljay on March 11, 2020, 8:34 am

        I don’t understand why Zionists are so focused on ensuring that Jewish protestors can be arrested if they break the law, tried and held accountable for their actions tragically-but-unavoidably shot in the knees by non-Jews.

        With friends like Zionists…

      • Mooser on March 11, 2020, 11:57 am

        You are really winning the internet today, “catalan”.

  9. Jackdaw on March 11, 2020, 8:18 am

    Shooting violent protestors in the knees is worse than shooting rockets into civilian towns.

    Got it!

    Thanks, Jonathan!

    • Jonathan Ofir on March 11, 2020, 11:45 am

      Jackdaw, “Shooting violent protestors in the knees is worse than shooting rockets into civilian towns. Got it!
      Thanks, Jonathan!”

      No, you did not get it. Because the protesters were not shooting rockets into civilian towns when they were being shot. No, they could just be standing there, and in fact they could be medics and journalists, not even protesters as such.

      So your equation is false and reveals a desperate attempt to change the subject.

      • Jackdaw on March 11, 2020, 5:34 pm

        ” Because the protesters were not shooting rockets into civilian towns when they were being shot”.

        And Israeli civilians were not shooting Gaza’s when Hamas targeted them with rockets.

        “No, they could just be standing there, and in fact they could be medics and journalists, not even protesters as such.”

        And Israeli civilians could also just be standing there. Right?

        Goodnight Jonathan.

      • Jonathan Ofir on March 12, 2020, 2:49 am

        “Hamas” appears to be a favourite Zionist talking point, applied to change an uncomfortable subject. “Hamas”, and poof! It’s gone!

      • Nathan on March 12, 2020, 11:37 am

        Jonathan Ofir – Everybody has a propaganda angle, and this includes you as well. So, you can claim that a pro-Israel activist might bring up the issue of Hamas as part of a debating ploy (although it could be a real concern, worthy of mention). However, you should note the fact that an anti-Israel activist has a ploy of pooh-poohing the most outrageous actions of the Arab side of the conflict. Actually, the policy of an anti-Israel activist is never to criticize the Arab/Islamic side for fear of justifying Israel’s concerns. So, in your case, you have pooh-poohed the problem of Hamas by pretending that it’s just a debating ploy. Others, for example, have pooh-poohed the declarations of the Arab world on the eve of the war in 1967, claiming that the threats to “throw the Jews into the sea” were just rhetoric. Rhetoric or not, even an anti-Israel activist should be able to say that there is something very weird and unacceptable in such declarations. And the suicide bombings? What anti-Israel activist would admit that this phenomenon is absolutely horrifying?

        You, too, are participating in the propaganda war. I suppose that you have the ability to notice that others are participating in this struggle as well. But your ploys are obvious, too.

      • eljay on March 12, 2020, 1:04 pm

        || Nathan on March 12, 2020, 11:37 am ||

        I can’t speak for Mr. Ofir so I’ll just say that I believe that:
        – all (war) crimes in I-P (military occupation, colonialism, oppression, torture, murder, supremacism, anti-Semitism, suicide bombings, etc.) must be brought to an end;
        – all (war) criminals must be held accountable for their past and on-going (war) crimes; and
        – all parties must respect international laws and human rights and uphold the universal and consistent application of justice, accountability and equality.

        Are we in agreement, Nathan? Or is your indignation as feigned as it appears?

      • Jonathan Ofir on March 12, 2020, 6:15 pm

        Nathan, “So, you can claim that a pro-Israel activist might bring up the issue of Hamas as part of a debating ploy (although it could be a real concern, worthy of mention).”

        Yes, it could in theory be, and then could be addressed. But what I was referring to was Jackdaw’s usage of it in a false equation, which, as I had mentioned, betrayed a desperate wish to change subject.

        So in theory, Jackdaw’s mentioning of “Hamas rockets” could be a real concern, but in reality it seemed to be something else. Likewise, your attempt to defend the desperate attempt to change subject, betrays your own ‘propaganda angle’, as you yourself suggest – the propaganda that seeks to distract from the article’s issue.

        So in theory your concern for balance could be genuine, but in reality, I think you too simply seek to change subject.

    • Marnie on March 13, 2020, 1:58 am

      @Jackdaw

      You twist an article with explicit photos documenting Israeli sadism and quotes from occupation forces jacking off at the memory of blowing out the knees of young Palestinian men, and turn it into another rant with Zionists as the eternal victims. Well, you’re nothing if not consistent. Does this exercise help you sleep at night or do you require a little help from a friend (Ambien, melatonin, etc., there’s just so darn many to choose from)? I can’t understand your POV at all. Irrational and unreasonable. What would the world be like if every woman or girl who’d been raped wanted to kill all the men to eliminate any chance of further rapes happening? That’s what Zionists sound like to me. We can’t let this happen again, it’s them or us, we can’t have a level playing field here because the holocaust! We are fucking more than 3 generations from the holocaust and the trauma is constantly fueled by islamaphobes here and in the west because of their hatred of the other. WTF Jackdaw.

      • eljay on March 13, 2020, 9:12 am

        || Marnie: … WTF Jackdaw. ||

        He’s doing his part (along with guys like catalan and jw500) to show that to some degree insanity fuels Zionism and Zionists.

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